Current Article

holder: obama does not decide who will be prosecuted

By American Girl in Italy on April 22, 2009 at 1:25 AM in Barack Obama, Current Affairs, Torture

(bumped up from Wednesday afternoon)

According to the Daily Beast, the Justice Department is “incensed” over comments made by Gibbs, Emanuel and Obama that there would be no prosecutions surrounding the so called torture memos. The issue was discussed on Morning Joe today, including the comments from the Obama administration and the Justice Department.

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Here is the scoop from the Daily Beast:

On Sunday, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, appearing on ABC’s This Week, underscored that President Obama had promised that CIA agents who acted in reliance on Bush-era Justice Department memoranda approving since-repudiated torture techniques would not face criminal investigation or prosecution. Then he went one step further, stating “those who devised the policy, he believes that they were—should not be prosecuted either.” A few hours later, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs reiterated Emanuel’s remarks as official policy. But during the course of the day on Tuesday the White House appeared suddenly to shift gears. President Obama, responding to a reporter’s question, declared that he was not prejudging a possible criminal investigation or prosecution of “those who formulated those legal decisions” behind the interrogation methods. What happened?

Members of the White House press corps struggled to explain the shift, many of them suggesting that Obama was pandering to his political base. But the winds of change blew in from an address just down Pennsylvania Avenue. The Daily Beast has learned that senior Justice Department lawyers were “incensed” at the Emanuel and Gibbs statements, as one put it—not because they disagreed with Obama’s apparent opposition to an investigation and prosecution, but because the statements violated well-established rules separating political figures in the White House from decisions about active criminal cases. The statements were viewed as a frontal assault on the autonomy and independence of the criminal-justice system. “Emanuel got far ahead of the process and described it in a way that clearly suggested that political judgment was driving the entire process,” one senior Justice official told me. “It was depressing and amateurish.”

The article goes on to detail the tangled web they have created, and what the next steps might be. The final paragraph closes with this:

Obama’s initial statement that CIA agents involved in the Bush “enhanced interrogation techniques” program would not be investigated or prosecuted was taken at the Justice Department as pushing the boundaries of political involvement in criminal law. But the statement by Emanuel, seen as a distinctly political figure, was perceived at Justice as going beyond those boundaries, according to high Justice officials. Within Justice, if Holder follows the now well-articulated views of the president and his chief of staff, the fear is that the attorney general would be viewed as a political subordinate in the mold of Alberto Gonzales. Ironically, the White House pronouncements have contributed to the momentum for a special prosecutor. That development coincides with the congressional voices now being raised for such an appointment.

If it’s true that Eric Holder is indeed incensed at the Obama administration, that would certainly explain the obvious and rapid flip flop, as seen in this video from Finkelblog:

It appears Obama opened a whole can of worms with the release of these memos. Not only does he lack the authority to decide whether there will be prosecutions or not, I assume he also put members of his own party at risk. (Feinstein and Pelosi, members of the Intel Committee…)

I would also assume that with his use of illegal wiretapping, and the continued policy of rendition, he has now opened himself up to prosecution in four years.

Hg

Good cop, bad cop. Good prez, bad prez. BS! Only an idiot could confuse what Obama is tying to do. He is so full of himself as the saviour of the world he is an embarrassment (and a hazzard)to all of US! I am only glad I do not now serve in the Armed Forces where I would be obligated to follow any directive issued from his office.
Hg

UH OH. Can we prosocute the messiah? That is one helluva thought AGI. Keep digging.
Whatthewhat?

Rendition occurred long before Obama or Bush. Clinton approved rendition. There is a difference between rendition and extraordinary rendition, both terms of art, one of which has been eliminated as a practice by executive and agency order.

AGI is also confused regarding the use of “illegal wiretapping” by the Obama Administration. It does not engage in illegal wiretapping. It engages in wiretapping made legal both by FISA and by the 109th Congress.

But please, let’s not let facts get in the way of a good anti-Obama rant.

However, I do agree that Emanuel went too far ahead of the ball in making his comments on Sunday morning. This does not, however, amount to evidence that this is the most incompetent administration ever.

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

i know rendition started under Clinton, which is in part why i said obama may have opened up prosecution to members of his own party – this was a convo i had in another thread about torture.

and i really don’t believe that people are being renditioned to afghanistan or gitmo to have a tea party.

my point is that if obama is continuing bush policies and some of them are now possibly being prosecuted, he is opening himself up to possible prosection later. I think if you go down that road, mistakes will be made, or things will go to far, or orders will be made, and he can then be in a position bush is now in.

illegal wire tapping – watch the video of jane h. in the latest post above. i also believe that a new administration could determine that the o administration engaged in illegal wiretaps, or decide that the immunity is illegal, or any other policy could be deemed illegal, as obama has now opened up the bush admin to prosecution.

“the most incompetent administration ever.” and where did i say that?

Nellie

AGI,

I definitely agree with you that the wiretapping is illegal. NO Law MAY BE MADE LEGALLY THAT VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION. It does not matter that congress went along with Bush and now 0Zero.

The question on much of the crap Congress, Bush or 0zzero have pulled – is it constitutional??

Another example is the way Pelosi appropriated and extra $93,500 in petty cash for each congress person or the way Pelosi and Reid appropriate money for their apartments on the SF waterfront, in Pelosi’s case, or the way Reid funnels PORK to his sons.

Show me one sentence in Article I, Section ( that authorizes PORK for the enrichment of self or family members!

So you are 100% correct in calling the wire taps illegal – they violate the first and fourth amendments.
elise

At the end of WW2, the US hanged Japanese soldiers for waterboarding. It violates International Law and Federal Law and the “tortured” logic used in the memos from DOJ to the CIA to authorize an illegal activity should not be allowed to stand and it doesn’t matter which party is involved. Obama continues the practices of the Bush administration. BTW, American Girl, Clinton never authorized Rendition to a foreign country and Black Sites. He authorized it for fugitives from US justice in countries without extradition agreements and they were brought to the US for trial. Obama has made a huge miscalculation. When the decision was made to release the memos, they should have been ready to take it all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. The timing was all wrong and they didn’t have a plan for anything past the release and apparently are acting on political expediency not based on moral principle or the LAW. He isn’t just a neophyte, he is an unprincipled amateur.

mary

Elise

Great comments here on motivations of The Ozero Prez and the absolutely untimely timing of the release of the torture memos. Eager to please his ever-shrinking ‘base’….?
thanks for the info on WWII and torture of Japanase soldiers…History must be a lesson to us and not an excuse for repetition. Barky is
so clueless. And Emanuel sounds like a middle-schooler writing his university entry exam! Amazing incompetence…

No wonder the clueless misogynist punch-drunk captains of the White House Titanic fired Ellen Moran….shame on these incompent buffons who should star in the Groucho Marx’s DUCK SOUP and not be on the White House stage!

mary

Whatthewhat

Your Obamabotic inane, marketing techniques of ra-rah -rah Obama’s Right and the rest are wrong…

You are the embodiment of the very antithesis of the values that were once defining the (ex) Democratic Party–now the SHARIA LAW PARTY OF THE U.S.

I am saying this not because I am a neanderthal Bush-supporter (whom I loathe) or a Republican. I am neither. But I have read reports from CBC and BBC back in ’06 and ’07 when Obama went to Kenya and devoted thousands of taxpayers’ dollars to promoting the Campaign of his ‘cousin Luo” ODINGA in Kenya. This murderous islamist had signed a MOU with all factios of Muslim-held organizations in Kenya and as precondition he undertook, under oath, to bring in Sharia Law! And Barry Hussein Obama knew about this all along.

Barry or Barack also went on campaign promo stops in Kenya where he was greeted as the Messiah. After Odinga lost, in December, Kenya was in ruins, thanks to Obama’s supporting this woman-hater uncivilized savage and billionaire Slum-lord cousin of Barack. 50 churches were burned, as Kenya was predominently, before Obama the clueless supported his ruthless cousin Odinga, a Christian country. Now, thanks to Obama’s support, the country sports many more mosques and the Christians are on the run.

Hundreds of Kenyan women were raped by the Odinga murderous gangs after the savage slumlord lost the eelection. Condo Rice asked Obama to draft a letter of…unity! for Kenya in the aftermath of the bloody civil war instigated by a disappointed Odinga.

the similarities of Odinga/Obama are great. Odiknga is a Kenyan version of REZKO. But far richer. BBC and CBC (I trust the Canadian CBC, and even the BBC oon occasion–formerly a Bush organ)

CBC/BBC reported that the then president of Kenya was very much upset with Obama’s visit to promote the election of his cousin Odinga. He called Barack “an immature, self-serving young senator from Illinois who has no clue as to foreign affairs and should stay out of this sovereign country of Kenya….”

Agree, obamabot? Watch Emanuel scatological expert Rahm for a lesson in kindergarten politics on behalf of his equally clueless boss! What an embarrassement?

Obarama = Bush III — Carter II

Tom Cat “wodiej” Jefferson Esq

Cripes, can they be ANY MORE STUPID?? If they prosecute they will be prosecuting themselves! They sure as hell went along w it.

Ok, go ahead, fine w me!!

politicalidentitycrisis

It would be fun to watch our Government take itself down. I would suddenly become a fan of Obama. Maybe be his pen pal for prison or something!

Dear Barky,

Thank you so much for doing what the average American could not get done in one election. Are you getting any of that $100 per pound steak in the slammer? Are you writing your real biography now that you’ve nothing to hide? Do you enjoy your new suits, the ones with the stripes on them? Was it fun to be President for less than a term? Do you think this would have happened if you hadn’t F-ed up us getting the blessing of Hillary for POTUS? Tell Nancy I said Hi, and Harry and Barney.

Thanks again!

Newfound respect PUMA

IndieDogg

I was once denied a U.S. Attorney appointment, despite having the highest vote total from the screening committee set up by the Senator making the appointment (technically a “recommendation”), because a prominent member of the Senator’s party, also a candidate for the position, swore to campaign against the Senator in question if he didn’t get the appointment.

I was a former prosecutor, a graduate of the Career Prosecutor Course of the National District Attorney’s Association and had been previously cross-designated to prosecute cases in both the state and federal systems. I was also a slightly connected government official, but not as connected as the one casting the political threats, the eventual nominee.

Sure, that happens, but I relate it to provide a setting for the following, from my interview.

I had been appointed to my then-current position by a chief executive of the “other” party from the Senator making the appointment. So, of course, the question of party affiliation and loyalty came up in the interview. I wasn’t a “member” of either party but I certainly understood the question, being no neophyte in politics.

My answer was sincere. I told the group that I honestly could not imagine ever making a prosecutorial decision for political reasons. The notion was completely foreign to me. And, I meant it.

But, the reason I relate the story now is that, when that happened and in the seconds following, something was in the air. I was never sure what it was and dismissed it and went about my business. Stunned at who was appointed (you would know the name even today — the appointment launched his political career)? Yes. Disappointed? Some, but not that much. Those things are crap-shoots.

But, I did come to realize what was in the air in that room when I’d made the totally honest statement that I couldn’t imagine a prosecutorial decision being a political decision.

They were trying not to laugh.

I was young then. I only got it years later. Today, none of this surprises me.

Of COURSE the Prez and Emanuel expect the Attorney General to do as they’re told. Why else have your own personal Attorney General?

Chicago Come to Town.

rw

-Of COURSE the Prez and Emanuel expect the Attorney General to do as they’re told. Why else have your own personal Attorney General?

Chicago Come to Town.-

Interesting background story.

So what you are saying is that the flip flopping is staged. That Obama has every intention of prosecuting, but comes out saying draw a line to the past, then his attorney general expresses umbrage, then Obama sounds none committal….in the end, Holder proceeds with investigation and Obama claims Judicial Dpt. independent of his Adm., Obama claims the day (for those wanting an investigation) Obama claims the day again (for those not wanting an investigation). Obama stands clear of this mess, re-election time. The End.

Do I read between the lines correction or am I being creative?

IndieDogg

You’re VERY creative but you give me far too much creative credit. I like it, though.

What I meant to suggest was that the Prez and Emanuel, being in the WH – first – and, being begat in and spat out of Chicago – second – most likely just assumed that they were going to make these kinds of decisions.

The thought that there were lines to be crossed (or not crossed) or other such niceties as the rule of law and the historical independence of the Justice Department, most likely never crossed their minds.

They appointed the AG, so they get to tell him what to do. That’s what I was suggesting is their mind set. And that it’s common. Wrong, but common among political hacks.

Coming up against a prosecutor who actually acts like one must be a shock to the system.

Thus the backpedaling, mumbling and stumbling while trying to get the cookie back in the jar without getting their hands caught or slapped. Usually a messy sight in a kitchen. No less so in the White House.

rw

Ah, OK. Realize now your last line was really the central point: Chicago comes to Town. Obama Emanuel from Chicago (Chicago style of politics), Holder not.
Ani

Thank you for this. It would be lovely to have an independent AG. A thing devoutly to be wished — lord knows we don’t need any more yes men.

elise

If they can find someone truly independent,Ani. What about Jonathan Turlley? He knows the constitution and doesn’t appear to be in the pocket of anyone when it comes to his interpretation of the law.

Lyn

sounds like voting present

oowawa

That was a really interesting story, IndieDogg. Thanks for telling it.
AF catfish

Stunned at who was appointed (you would know the name even today — the appointment launched his political career)? Yes.

I smell Rudy!

SJ

Smoke and mirror, while they wrote the GIVE Act into law, does anyone really understand what this is, I sure don’t and would love someone to speak about what this act really means.

Paula Revere

SJ…That means they can mandate you do “service” for America, whatever that is and it will create the Fraud’s little brown shirt civilian army. It’s a bunch of crap sandwich commie crap that should scare the hell out of any decent American.

SJ

Thank you I was wondering about that, will have to do some investigating on the web to see if there is any more info on this.

It just seems strange to me that something like this act that is going to affect our kids, seems to be on the back burner while we discuss water boarding, and green house gases.

Paula Revere

SJ…I think that’s the point. The Sadministration is distracting people while passing all of this sicko legislation. I saw today a bunch of the stuff that’s going on and I was appalled. I was wondering why in hell people don’t know about it. Well everyone is obsessed with Bush, so they don’t care about what Obama is doing here and NOW. If I can find the email about the legislation that is being pushed through, I will post it.

As for the GIVE Act, they took out the “mandatory” clause and then put it back in. It’s my understanding that the version Obama signed has, in fact, the mandatory clause and they can make us serve.

SJ

Wow are you kidding me that mandatory clause is in there? Geez and people are not concerned, I keep seeing the vid clip that was making the rounds on the net with the marching kids singing to yes we can.

I often wonder what is going on with America are we all asleep at the wheel? Have we lost out fight, we just seem as a people to have given up and accepting whatever goes now, its so sad.

UKforDems

No need to listen to bigotbots just go here. http://serve.gov/about.asp

Bigotbots do not support volunteering projects in America.

Paula Revere

No, UKforMorons…I don’t support indentured servitude…you know, what we got rid of with the Constitution when we freed the slaves. Liar Bot, move on.

http://noquarter foxyladi14

do we really have to wait four years??

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

i figured he would get bored and next year he would announce his candidacy for king of the world.

i mean come on, hasn’t he been campaigning for it already…? what do you think that Saudi bow was about? he wants money for his campaign.

haha

Thomas Pain Jayne

I’m still laughing over someone calling him Prom King of the World the other day….

KmX

The Far Left of the DNC will be President Obama demise. He cannot continue to hedge and vote PRESENT now that he is in the WH…

As usaual he is handing it over Eric Holder so he ccan continue to look good and Poll well. But the Dems overplayed their hands on this Torture MEmo issue. At the end of the day it will be:

Are you sympathizers for terrorists who wanted to bomb LA?

Or

Do you support the heros lawyers who help the adminsitration and the CIA defeat the terrorist and save American lives.

Harry Truman a Democrat president bomb Japan to save American lives. Think about it.. He incinerated entire villages.
Elizabeth

Obama’s initial statement that CIA agents involved in the Bush “enhanced interrogation techniques” program would not be investigated or prosecuted was taken at the Justice Department as pushing the boundaries of political involvement in criminal law.

Isn’t Holder is the one who first made it clear, along with Panetta, that CIA officers “who acted reasonably and relied in good faith on authoritative legal advice from the Justice Department that their conduct was lawful.”

This still leaves the possibility of prosecuting higher ups as well as CIA officers who did NOT act in good faith…
I’m a Linda too

Just amazing.

Why does that old saying keep coming to mind?

“Give them enough rope, they’ll hang themself eventually”
Eleven

And Pelosi is talking about Truth Commission. Does this sound like the Ministry of Truth in 1984? This is really doubleplusungood.

I’m a Linda too

Just remember, when it comes to these politicians, we’ve seen it time and time again, they deny all accusations and charges-with some of the strongest language…”how dare they…you will see my name cleared of such accusations and lies….” then, they burst in to tears in front of cameras after being found guility with “I’m so sorry, I shamed my family,” etc.

getfitnow

Isn’t Justice defending, I think his name is Yee from UCB? He was part of the Bush cabal that signed off on the techniques. Are they going to pick and choose who they go after? This is a real mess.

Eleven

It’s John Yoo from UCB.

Elizabeth

How do you get charged as a war criminal ? Not likely, but if that does happen, and only then, I think is the DOJ obligated to let the case proceed. Right now they’re just defending him out of a ridiculous respect for the office. And Yoo has certainly led to a whole string of war crimes.

Of course it’s Bush’s well planned alibi that he was only following legal opinions from Justice.

The old jokes about Nazis declaring: “I was only following orders!” get less humourous every day.

http://noliinsipientiuminiuriaspati.blogspot.com/ adagioforstrings

ott, Obama purportedly wants to throw the US Embassy former hostage case out of court , either as a quid pro quo for Saberi’s release, or just to further prostrate himself in front of Iran.

rw

And this from yesterday:

Two former employees of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Steve Rosen and Keith Weissman, were charged with communicating national defense information to the press and the Israeli government starting in 1999. Their trial is scheduled to begin June 2 in federal court in Alexandria, Virginia.

The Washington Post reported yesterday that federal prosecutors were considering dropping the case because recent court rulings would make it harder for the government to win convictions under the Espionage Act.

Teresaa

Yeah, but Obama gets to decide who the attorney general is….
oowawa

Does anyone reading this think that anybody will ever be prosecuted for formulating and carrying out the waterboarding tortures? I sure can’t imagine it ever happening. They’re just shopping around for the most flattering shade of whitewash, and are having problems coordinating their messages. Not good!

Paula Revere

No of course not. I think the GOP has too many dirty little secrets on the Fraud, and no one will get prosecuted or else he gets exposed.

oowawa

Yes Paula. To mix a metaphor, the O administration wants to command the moral high ground, but they are afraid of rocking the boat.

Paula Revere

oowawa…exactly. Wonder when the people at Kos and Hufpoop’s heads will start exploding? Bring the camera!!!

Portia Elizabeth

It’s the BO clown car speeding along again in all directions.

Paula Revere

LMAO…
Ani

Water spew.

Peggy Sue

No, oowawa. I think this is all political posturing to placate the Far Left. But for God’s sake, the WH staff really needs to get its act together. And these staffers aren’t all newbies to DC politics. What is the problem???

It’s as if the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. A confidence gap?? Really! That’s a polite way of saying: continuing screw-ups. They really need to get a grip.

mary

Peggy Sue

Just read ELLEN MORAN’s been FIRED by the sexist pigs at the White House and Chris Cillizza who works out of the White House for his faintly objective Cheat Sheet at WashingPost’s daily sweat, has a phenomenally biased article. Also, the White House dummy Robert Gibbs cited…

“Mommy track” reasons for Ellen Moran’s dismissal as Communications Director. Seems the girl was not wanted by the Boys Hoops Club headed by the creepiest of middle-finger-less misogynists, Emanuel Rahmbo and Jon FAVREAU may be made the new Communications Director!!!!!!

White House misogyny is now the newest criterion for admission at the club of the Clueless Administration….

Hope Ellen Moran – who supported Hillary CLinton, not obamarama — was not a member of the ‘inner circle’ of the boys’ club….and she had to go. Stress and taking care of the children as legit reasons are stretching the Truth…gimme a break.

Ellen Moran’s a former NORAL executive and a brainy, knowledgeable person with guts! But not for the OZero gang of thugs

http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

Well the facts are in….

If Obama had been president after 911 and failed to get the information to prevent an attack, Los Angeles probably would have been attacked by Asians flying planes into a building.

I don’t even have to ask this question anymore

The verdict is in…

It is IMMORAL to allow American lives to be lost when direct information is available to prevent such an attack.

Those that support the mastermind of 911 and his knowledge of the attack on LA on the issues of waterboarding disgust me.

Paula Revere

USMoss…I live in Los Angeles. Anyone who says we shouldn’t have done WHATEVER IT TAKES to get this information out of this TERRORIST MURDERING SCUMBAG are TRAITORS TO OUR COUNTRY. I am SO sick of this crap. People here would rather see me dead so they can preserve their phony righteous indignation? WTF?

http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

The revisionists are going down.

Anybody that’s been obsessed with bringing down Bush and Cheney and those that kept us safe since 911 are having their collective souls ripped to shreds.
In order to keep supporting their high minded ideal of prosecuting the Bush war on terror they have to now join hands with the America hating Obama and his minions who want America humiliated and defeated.
What a horrible existence to know that you care more about a terrorist’s rights than the lives of thousands of Americans which have been saved.
What a sick existence to lie about your ability to turn the other cheek and get killed because of a false belief in what is moral.

Paula Revere

EXACTLY USMoss…on the other thread, people were literally posting that they would rather let their family members die, to preserve this ludicrous moral indignation. My life is worth saving. That of a murderous bastard terrorist is NOT. They MAKE THEIR CHOICES of how to live their lives. They chose to be terrorists and they should be treated as such, when necessary to get information to save Americans lives. To the people who said they wouldn’t save their own families…shame, shame, shame on YOU.

http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

Paula,
Anybody that can say that they would rather sacrifice their families and themselves for a false sense of morality are beyond fools to me.
They are fools because we all know how they would really act…screaming for help and anything to stop the attacks.
Not so comfy that arm chair then!
Adrenaline is telling you fight or flight.
Not too many humans I know would commit suicide in that situation.

But keep pretending revisionists!

Paula Revere

Honestly, I was FLOORED when I saw that. I always wondered if the poster was a troll…that kind of did it for me. Saying she loves her family but, no, she wouldn’t go far enough to promote torturing a terrorist to save her family. WTF? When you are a parent, you are supposed to take a bullet for your kids. I can’t imagine saying that I would value the life of some filthy, dirty, murdering son of a bitch over my own daughter. Moonbats are really strange.

UKforDems

Bush NeoCons were to blame for 9/11. They were warned they did nothing. Bush should be tried for the incompetence that led to 9/11.

CentralMass

Let me guess, you two guys are really Dick Cheney and Sean Hannity.

http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

NO!

But now that you asked I think both Dick and W are Hero’s for caring about and saving American lives.
But for all of you who would sacrifice American lives to prop up your phony morality
You’re the new villains

ziggy

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times.

Do you think we should have done it a few more times, just to make sure we didn’t miss some vital bit of information?

The man was quite likely no longer sane by the time the number of torture sessions got beyond the 20s. Yet we did this for a total of 183 times? What the hell for? For recreational purposes? What are we? Evil, or stupid?

The more I hear my fellow Americans condoning this nazi Gestapo crap, the more convinced I become that somebody is going to have to be tried. People cannot be allowed to believe that this is acceptable behavior.

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

“The man was quite likely no longer sane by the time the number of torture sessions got beyond the 20s.”

You are assuming he was sane beforehand.

He is believed to be the mastermind of 9/11. If so, I think he should be waterboarded every day for 10 years, then executed.

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

“I decapitated with my blessed right hand the head of the American Jew, Daniel Pearl, in the city of Karachi, Pakistan,” Mohammed is quoted as saying.

“For those who would like to confirm, there are pictures of me on the Internet holding his head,” KSM added.

Yep… i got no sympathy for this guy.

Paula Revere

AGI…Awwww…come on…It’s America’s fault that Daniel Pearl was beheaded. Come on. Even though their culture has been pulling this shit since before America was discovered…WTF, it’s our fault. And I hope the Fraud gets his dream of migrating ALL of the radical, Jew and American hating Islamic trash into this country. As a taxpayer, I can’t WAIT to pay for the terrorists to have a home and a car. Why not? Maybe when little Zippy the Pinhead LOSES his head…maybe he’ll think twice about showing all the terrorist love.
ziggy

Whether you have sympathy is not the point. I have no sympathy for him. That does not mean that I would feel satisfaction to learn that his eyes had been put out by Dick effin’ Cheney with red hot pokers.

We restrain ourselves because we are good people. We are not like them. We are better than that.

What are some of us not getting about this?

Paula Revere

Zippy, enough. Really. I don’t want to die because you don’t understand the value of American lives. And, yes, I will say that we are more valuable to the world than those who, from birth, are on a mission to destroy us – “the infidels.” We didn’t choose to adopt that as our cultural mantra. They did. If they die, so be it. We are a great nation that deserves to survive the attacks of our enemies. If you want to die, good for you. I don’t and I don’t owe it to your moral high ground, that I think is BS, to die for YOU.
http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

I don’t believe poking eyes out with a hot poker was on the torture memo. although for the mastermind of 9/11…poke away. Poke him for every person i saw falling from the sky.

i get the part about being better than them. i had this convo in another thread. but if the dude is guilty, then i am all for torturing the asshole, and then poking him, and then stringing him up.

i listened to John McCain about torture, and am not for it, and believe we are a nation of laws, and should follow our laws, and we should be better than *them*.

But if this MF masterminded 9/11, and cut off Daniel Pearls head, I don’t care what they do to him.
Peggy Sue

Ziggy, you and I probably disagree on more things than not. But on this:

“We restrain ourselves because we are good people. We are not like them. We are better than that.

What are some of us not getting about this?”

we are sympatico. And I do not know what “we” are not getting.

Paula Revere

You betcha’ AGI!

Go USMoss! Actually I am grateful for these America hating MOONBATS. Keep it up. For every person who defends terrorist murdering scum, there will be a patriot who has HAD IT with this crap. More people for the revolution.

http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times.

and your point is???

Khalid….Caused 3000 deaths on 911
Khalid….Caused 50000 lungs to be burned out
Khalid …Wanted LA to suffer the same fate.

I don’t care if it took 3000 water boardings for every soul that died on 911.

We got the information and my relatives are resting well tonight in LA

Elizabeth

Why then did the Bush administration claim to have broken the LA attack plans in 2002 if Khalid wasn’t even arrested, in Pakistan, until Mar 2003 ?? It is impossible that this plot was foiled due to waterboarding KSM since he wasn’t captured yet!

Besides, terrorists will never be allowed to take control of a plane again after 9/11. Between passangers with their cell phones and armed pilots, security guards everyone is obviously too clued into to the ramifications of a jets into the side of a building plan for a repeat performance.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070523.html

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

if this guy succeeded to this point, i don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility that something worse could have happened.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30301933/
http://www.marklevinshow.com Ulysses S. Moss

Here are some real facts for you

The attempted bombing of LAX airport was thwarted by border patrol agents in Port Angeles

The attack on buildings using Planes hijacked by Asians is all new information.

TeakwoodKite

It is not new. Just there was more to the story of the plot that was hatched in the 90′s. These people are patient and learn quickly.
—-

According to his landlord, “Some looked Arab and others white.” There has been no explanation who these “white” visitors may have been. Hambali had been very poor prior to this time, but he is suddenly “flush with newfound cash” brought by the visitors. In June 1994, he founds a front company called Konsonjaya with Wali Khan Amin Shah, a key Bojinka plotter, and both their names are listed on the eight-person board of directors. Shah fought with bin Laden in Afghanistan, and bin Laden will even admit knowing him and praise him in an 1998 interview
Elizabeth

From the Bush administration fact sheet link:

In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

TeakwoodKite

terrorists will never be allowed to take control of a plane again after 9/11..

mmm Did not a person person jack a 737 last week?

In total, 167 people — including eight crew members — had been held hostage by a gunman aboard CanJet Flight 918, as it waited on the tarmac near the resort city of Montego Bay.

.

Do you wish to revise your statement?

Paula Revere

Zippy, you are an America hating person who should be ashamed of yourself. To defend scum that masterminded the death of 3,000 Americans sort of makes you a mental case IMO. Why don’t you go live in Palestine and join Hamas? I’m sure they would love to have you with your terrorist loving America hatred. People like you are why this country won’t survive.

ziggy

I’ve fought for my country. I love my country. I will do everything in my power to keep immoral people from taking control of it again.

They tortured in our name. They launched an unnecessary war based on lies, and slaughtered tens of thousands of innocent people in our name. They’ve got blood on their hands. They want to be praised as patriots. They want me to thank them for saving me. They didn’t save me from anything. We needed to be saved from the likes of them.

Paula Revere

Zippy, you’re really strange. They saved you honey. Are you alive? For God’s sakes you do know that there is a daily intelligence report that lists all of the terrorist attempts all over the world. Are you that ignorant that you don’t realize the people who are keeping us safe have done so under major amounts of threats? Do you REALLY not get it troll?

UKforDems

Do you, you dirty bigotbot get it that if you torture you do not get information you get lies to stop the torture. You are the troll. You post messages of hate, of “revolution”, of wanting to leave America (good F off), of shame for America.

American values mean NO TORTURE.
ziggy

I get plenty. What I get is that they scared mainstream America witless, so they could that fear as a means to an end.

ziggy

…so they could use that fear as a means to an end.

elise

I agree with you on this one ziggy. The problem is Obama has screwed it up. What was the purpose of releasing the memos, if he had no intention of going all the way? My guess is he’s trying to cater to his base (you), but doesn’t have the guts it takes to do something politically dangerous. Why was the timing so bad? Everything in it’s season. I’m just guessing again here, but I think the taped video to Iran and his too friendly approach with Chavez has shown his inexperience. I do agree about the torture. It’s against our own law and more important, we have lost the moral high ground because of it. There are methods of interrogation which have been successful in the past and didn’t include any of these disgusting techniques. But I’m telling you ziggy, Obama is not who he has claimed to be and who you believe him to be. His vote on FISA was the first indication, but it was ignored. Furthermore, he is completely clueless when it comes to foreign policy and diplomacy. I’m not even sure he understands what the word means. Someone said a while back diplomacy is like a game of chess. It requires finesse and the right amount of aggression. He is president and we’re stuck with him for at least four years, but it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

mary

elise

Your commentary here is 100% accurate! Barack’s Foreign Policy is the result of a clueless kindergarten-prezidency and his flip-flop on the torture memos is indicative of his inexperience and anorexic resume! But the undemocratic party wanted Him and pushed aside the qualified, competent Hillary cause….she was inferior….just a woman.

And the morons headed by the scatological civility-challenged Emanuel have given the boot to
ELLEN MORAN as Communications Directors because she had supported Hillary and not the Great Ventriloquist Dummygod. Just read that moron Chris CILLIZZA’s column on Ellen’s dismissal due to the MOMMY EXCUSE….White House and media misogynists are still doing overtime!

Wonder if Jon Favreau will take over…

HARP

Well I guess Obama won`t be going back to Iraq anytime soon.

Report: Iraqi militia kill gays with anal glue torture:

http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/04/report-iraqi-militia-kill-gays-with-anal-glue-torture/

Paula Revere

HARP…Disgusting. I’m appalled. But, guess what? The Moonbats want to make sure that those assholes are protected and get a home, food, welfare, health benefits from America. Are you kidding me? And people like this don’t DESERVE to die? ROFLMAO.
oowawa

Oh God, HARP–I wish I hadn’t read that–but usually you make me laugh! It’s incredible what horrors humans can dream up to inflict upon others . . .

HARP

Yep …seems they have graduated from the old sand in the Vaseline trick.

UKforDems

Comment by HARP | 2009-04-22 19:46:44

Yep …seems they have graduated from the old sand in the Vaseline trick

Sick joke.

This torture of gays and women is being done by the militia Americans are paying to keep the peace in Iraq. Just the people Seattle Moss argues Iraqi citizens feel liberated by.

HARP

Go play with your spotted dick.

mary

HARP

I can’t believe this cruelest of punishments. I wouldn’t want this for my worst enemy. But come to think of it….the islamist jerks who practice this torture beyond torture should be shot in the head. No trial. No jury. No judge. Bush went too far with his cowboy-macho foreign policy of death and disaster. But these Islamist Terrorist pigs deserve no less than death. AGI correctly has said Obama the Clueless has opened up Pandora’s box of punishments. His own neck (or worse parts of his frail anatomy) may be at risk….Amen and good riddance.

OxyCon

Amateur hour again!
The Obama administration is flying by the seat of their pants.

Docelder

Yep, except the emperor has no clothes.

donjo

For a moment, I thought I had logged into Freeper territory, but please excuse me while I interupt this sick blood letting orgy. You’ve all been watching “24″ too much. There is not one single drop of real evidence that all that waterboarding provided one drop of usable “information.” Except to make some equally sick perverts happy with what they were doing.

Simply said and it’s been said by people a helluva lot wiser than me or any of you,”torture doesn’t work.”
Besides, it’s illegal and immoral as hell.

I’ve long had the opinion that America has never been far from turning into another European-style hate-filled war mongering concentration camp building establishment. Stuff like this makes my belief even stronger.

Murray

I dunno…torture always worked on me.

Paula Revere

Wanna see where your money is going? I guess the Moonbats who hate America, and love the terrorists, will be happy that Americans got fleeced to pay for this.

HAMAS OPENS ISLAMIC BANK: YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS AT WORK!

Fleecing Americans for jihad. Obscene. Jiyza on the backs of Christians, Jews, and infidels everywhere.
First Hamas-affiliated bank opens in Gaza Breitbart (hat tip Amaros)

The first bank affiliated with the Hamas movement running Gaza opened on Tuesday in the Israeli-blockaded coastal strip which lies outside the Palestinian Authority’s control.

“We are opening the bank today and are beginning to offer our services to the public,” Alaa al-Rafati, head of the National Islamic Bank, told AFP.

The National Islamic Bank has 20 million dollars in start-up capital and will operate under Islamic finance rules, he said.

With offices on four floors of a building in central Gaza City, the bank will hold the accounts of 6,000 Hamas employees whose salaries are to be deposited in the bank.

Rafati did not say how the Islamist movement acquired the start-up capital in a territory under Israeli embargo since Hamas, which is pledged to the destruction of the Jewish state, violently seized power in 2007.

“We have absolutely no crisis of liquidity, be it shekels or dollars. This will allow us to win the confidence of customers.”

Although the vast majority of the board of directors are members of Hamas, including Rafati, he said the bank was “a private enterprise aimed at making profit and is not associated to Hamas or to the government in Gaza.”

Because of the blockade, which has prevented all but essential humanitarian goods from entering the territory, Gaza’s banks have faced a virtually constant liquidity crisis.

Rafati said no such problems would plague the new bank.

“We have absolutely no crisis of liquidity, be it shekels or dollars. This will allow us to win the confidence of customers.”
TeakwoodKite

Can I ask those who think torture is a vaild/ nessasary method of extracting information from these sub humans, makes us any different than them???

Respectfully, asking as I stand in the coral, not wanting to clean up “the poop”, someone has to.
HARP

I`m sorry but after hearing about all of the torture done to women ( and pets ) caused by domestic abuse, I find it hard to muster much sympathy for the likes of these thugs that would slit my throat in a heartbeat.

My concern is with those who give life…..not those who wish to take it away.
Doc99

I think Obama may be hoist on his own petard.

Paula Revere

Way to GO Doc! Great find. I bet the loony left at Huffpoop is seriously experiencing cranial explosions over this.

UKforDems

I wonder why some bigotbots thought a report on right wing extremists such as StormFront thought it was about them?

LOL @ bigotbots.

JS

Waterboarding a terrorist is not torture. Waterboarding an innocent American you kidnapped to prove how mean waterboarding is, is.

See the difference?
mary

American Girl in Italy

…has opened up Obama’s Pandor Box of inconsistencies and flip-flops which seem to be recurring in this kindergarten-variety White House staff rehab centre.

The last point AGI makes is food for thought indeed! Four years from now Obama Himself along with his complicit (however clueless) Administration, inlcuding the misogynist scatological Emanuel and the inept Gibbs, will be subjected to the same scrutiny, and since he has refused the impunity of his own earlier (pre-flip-flop) pronouncement, will possibly face prosecution. Well-deserved for Obama Himself reversed his campaign promise re FISA. Hillary stood firm and strong throughout on FISA, as in most of her campaign held positions. Obama lacks GRAVITAS. He has no moral centre. No ideological hangups. He’s a free-floating political anxiety disaster. The sooner they put this mickey-mouse prez on prozac and off the stoning agents he’s currently on, the better for the Justice dept….
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mary

I love ELISE’s comment:

Obama “is not just a neophyte, he’s an unprincipled Amateur…acting out of political expediency, not moral LAW”….

Hear hear! More than just a political neophyte. Barack’s an unprincipled amateur…
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