Comments on: Bob Baer on Torture’s Ineffectiveness http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/ Sun, 27 May 2012 08:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Dick Cheney and Torture « Seattleliberal’s Blog http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1202669 Dick Cheney and Torture « Seattleliberal’s Blog Sat, 09 May 2009 03:43:44 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1202669 [...] this month underscored that valuable intelligence gleaned from Zubaida did not come via torture. Bob Baer, with the CIA for 21 years, writes in detail about the uselessness of torture in his book “See no [...] [...] this month underscored that valuable intelligence gleaned from Zubaida did not come via torture. Bob Baer, with the CIA for 21 years, writes in detail about the uselessness of torture in his book “See no [...]

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194343 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 01:51:53 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194343 Lisabona, A friend told me in Bolivia the police would shake up a warm bottle of Coke and with the suspect tied down to a chair, they would hold one nostril and shoot the Coke up his nose. I don't recall if my friend said any deaths resulted. Well, the police were corrupt and there were probably many innocent people who were treated to this Coke in the nose. Do you think this is torture? The police in cities across our country beat people into confessions not too many years ago and I would imagine it still happens here from time to time. If we claim torture is legal, why would the police departments and the FBI not be allowed to do it here? There are some bad people: Serial killers, abusive husbands and pedophiles. We could save time and the money for trials. You probably don't think this can happen, but people become desensitized to violence and it is easier than most understand, IMO. After all, the Germans were good people and civilized, but they allowed something horrible to happen. Lisabona, A friend told me in Bolivia the police would shake up a warm bottle of Coke and with the suspect tied down to a chair, they would hold one nostril and shoot the Coke up his nose. I don’t recall if my friend said any deaths resulted. Well, the police were corrupt and there were probably many innocent people who were treated to this Coke in the nose. Do you think this is torture? The police in cities across our country beat people into confessions not too many years ago and I would imagine it still happens here from time to time. If we claim torture is legal, why would the police departments and the FBI not be allowed to do it here? There are some bad people: Serial killers, abusive husbands and pedophiles. We could save time and the money for trials. You probably don’t think this can happen, but people become desensitized to violence and it is easier than most understand, IMO. After all, the Germans were good people and civilized, but they allowed something horrible to happen.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194327 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 01:24:01 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194327 It was my impression he was sincere and not parsing his words, although I didn't pay close attention. It was my impression he was sincere and not parsing his words, although I didn’t pay close attention.

]]> By: elise http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194324 elise Fri, 24 Apr 2009 01:21:12 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194324 Completely agree with this point of view about torture in relation to our country, lorac. It's an inconsistency we cannot afford to ignore. Completely agree with this point of view about torture in relation to our country, lorac. It’s an inconsistency we cannot afford to ignore.

]]> By: foxyladi14 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194205 foxyladi14 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:24:03 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194205 give em lots of brandy..works better. quicker too give em lots of brandy..works better.
quicker too

]]> By: rw http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194110 rw Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:22:36 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194110 Concur - not to diminish the issue of interrogation techniques of prisoners/combatants of war - but it does seem as if all the abuse, sadism etc. suffered by women, children, pets AND men in this country do not get the same attention, coverage, debate. It's politics, politics, ratings, politics, image, politics, politics. And as for that sick video above, which I had to turned away from it is so sick and sadistic, where is the f*ing useless UN and it's human rights tenets? What, human rights tenets are only applicable to developed nations? UAE is a member of that U(seless)N regime isn't it? What the hell has been going on since the UDHR was signed in 1948? It really does take effort to get up every morning and say, Ah, I'm so proud to be a member of the human race. Concur – not to diminish the issue of interrogation techniques of prisoners/combatants of war – but it does seem as if all the abuse, sadism etc. suffered by women, children, pets AND men in this country do not get the same attention, coverage, debate.

It’s politics, politics, ratings, politics, image, politics, politics.

And as for that sick video above, which I had to turned away from it is so sick and sadistic, where is the f*ing useless UN and it’s human rights tenets? What, human rights tenets are only applicable to developed nations? UAE is a member of that U(seless)N regime isn’t it? What the hell has been going on since the UDHR was signed in 1948?

It really does take effort to get up every morning and say, Ah, I’m so proud to be a member of the human race.

]]> By: typical.white.person http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194083 typical.white.person Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:08:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194083 <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html" rel="nofollow">Op-Ed by Ali Soufan</a> <i>It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, <b>I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August.</b> Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence. <b>We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber.</b> This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives. <b>There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics.</b> In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process.</i> Op-Ed by Ali Soufan

It is inaccurate, however, to say that Abu Zubaydah had been uncooperative. Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence.

We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives.

There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194053 Elizabeth Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:28:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194053 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm And while acts of degradation may not be routine and systematic in American prisons, average people don't get too upset about the whole thing because, well gee, they're criminals aren't they? Even the non-violent drug offenders, many first-timer offenders that have been criminalized and radicalized by the entire system. Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals...Iraq or a US Correctional facility ?? http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm

And while acts of degradation may not be routine and systematic in American prisons, average people don’t get too upset about the whole thing because, well gee, they’re criminals aren’t they?
Even the non-violent drug offenders, many first-timer offenders that have been criminalized and radicalized by the entire system.

Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals…Iraq or a US Correctional facility ??

]]> By: Mr.Murder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1194023 Mr.Murder Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:41:41 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1194023 Bushco.(Cheney was its CEO) knew torture was useless. They used it to shape a narrative for an illegal war. Apellate Judges who gave them a pass should face Geneva as well. Opps, there goes the remainder of Bushco.'s legacy! Bushco.(Cheney was its CEO) knew torture was useless. They used it to shape a narrative for an illegal war.

Apellate Judges who gave them a pass should face Geneva as well. Opps, there goes the remainder of Bushco.’s legacy!

]]> By: Doc99 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193978 Doc99 Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:33:26 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193978 Democrat Leaders briefed <a href="http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/04/surprise-dem-leaders-were-briefed-30.html" rel="nofollow"> thirty times on interrogations.</a> Could this brouhaha be misdirection to pass Junk Science-based Cap and Trade legislation? Democrat Leaders briefed thirty times on interrogations.

Could this brouhaha be misdirection to pass Junk Science-based Cap and Trade legislation?

]]> By: Claire http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193973 Claire Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:20:25 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193973 What amazes me is that we get all moralistic about the scumbags that want to kill us, but don't give a rats *ss about partial birth abortions or letting a baby die after a failed abortion. I consider sucking the brains out of a baby torture, silly me.... What amazes me is that we get all moralistic about the scumbags that want to kill us, but don’t give a rats *ss about partial birth abortions or letting a baby die after a failed abortion. I consider sucking the brains out of a baby torture, silly me….

]]> By: jbjd http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193945 jbjd Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:58:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193945 Several good points, Kelderek. Yes, we tend to cling to our beliefs notwithstanding they may not serve us well: anger does not model reason; cruelty cannot evoke kindness; rationalizing death will never replace life. Several good points, Kelderek. Yes, we tend to cling to our beliefs notwithstanding they may not serve us well: anger does not model reason; cruelty cannot evoke kindness; rationalizing death will never replace life.

]]> By: lorac http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193937 lorac Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:29:13 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193937 Yes, most cases of PTSD are found in survivors of rape and DV, way more than in soldiers. Yes, most cases of PTSD are found in survivors of rape and DV, way more than in soldiers.

]]> By: Kelderek http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193930 Kelderek Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:12:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193930 One more comment on torture. Slumdog Millionaire won best movie Oscar and there is a torture scene at the police headquarters nary a comment about this. This is India our ally so the Press ignores. One more comment on torture. Slumdog Millionaire won best movie Oscar and there is a torture scene at the police headquarters nary a comment about this. This is India our ally so the Press ignores.

]]> By: candymarl http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22362/bob-baer-on-tortures-ineffectiveness/#comment-1193925 candymarl Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:05:34 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22362#comment-1193925 Thank you HARP. Domestic violence is also a form of torture. The fear, pain, nightmares and flashbacks, are just as real and painful. I know. Thank you again. Thank you HARP. Domestic violence is also a form of torture. The fear, pain, nightmares and flashbacks, are just as real and painful.

I know. Thank you again.

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