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Superdelegates: Pick a Winner

The superdelegates are going to pick the next Democratic nominee. Winning the General Election against John McCain should be their primary concern.

Let’s assume Hillary wins tomorrow in Pennsylvania. Regardless of her margin of victory, superdelegates are still tasked with picking the Democratic nominee. A post by Jeralyn on TalkLeft argues convincingly that Obama would face almost insurmountable odds against McCain. Jeralyn uses William Arnone’s analysis of the electoral landscape. Jeralyn says:

First, we need to figure out which of the 20 states are vulnerable to McCain and decide whether Hillary or Obama has a better chance of carrying them. Mr. Arnone says those states are: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, Oregon and Wisconsin, which have a total of 68 electoral votes.

As I’ve written before, Kerry won Pennsylvania by only 2% in 2004. Obama’s inability to carry large states besides his home state does not bode well for his candidacy.

What is more troubling is that Kerry won Wisconsin by a mere .5%. Also, if Michigan is lost by selective disenfranchisement, then the Democratic Party should go into another line of business.

Jeralyn continues:

Next are the ten states the Dems didn’t win in 2004 that there’s a chance of winning in 2008. They are: Arkansas; Colorado; Florida; Iowa; Missouri; Nevada; New Mexico; North Carolina; Ohio; and Virginia. Of these, all but North Carolina have already voted. Mr. Arnone says: “The winner of the popular vote in the Democratic primary or caucus in each of these key states will have a higher likelihood of carrying that state in November. This is a critical consideration in determining who is likely to be the Party’s most successful Presidential candidate in the general election.”

Obama would be certain to lose Florida and it’s hard to imagine him winning any of the states above, regardless of how much the so-called “progressives” wish it. Jeralyn tracks Arnone’s argument that the Democratic candidate will have to pick up four crucial constituencies: women, Catholics, the elderly, and Latinos. Obama is very weak with all four groups while Hillary is remarkably strong with all four. While Obama would likely lose ALL swing states, Hillary would probably win Arkansas, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Mexico, and Ohio. In other words, a landslide.

The Obama campaign has argued that the superdelegates should pick the person with the most delegates at the end of the primary season, but of course that’s without counting Michigan and Florida. Selective disenfranchisement is the name of their game. But that’s precisely NOT the role of superdelegates. Their role is to exercise independent judgment and pick the strongest candidate, the candidate that will most likely win in the General Election.

There are rumblings that a group of young militants are recruiting African Americans and others to riot at the August convention if Obama is not selected as the nominee. This may be true as Obama’s surrogates have used strong-armed tactics to sway the caucuses and it is well known that many of his young followers see themselves as part of a radical movement. Some people feel that the superdelegates are afraid of these consequences if they don’t nominate Obama.

However the threat of rioting is a manipulation by Obama’s overzealous youth movement (they’ve been seen posting pictures of Che Guevara in Obama offices) and it has been intentionally overstated and exaggerated throughout the blogs. Moreover, the superdelegates are much more concerned about the Democrats winning the General Election than they are about the threats made by Obama’s young followers. And as much as Hillary’s supporters may cringe at the thought, Hillary will likely pick Obama as her running mate. She has stated so publicly and her former campaign manager, Patti Solis-Doyle, is running a campaign she calls voteboth.org, an operation, I believe, to assure the superdelegates that Hillary will select Obama and bring his troops into the fold. Think Kennedy-Johnson 1960: two warring factions of the Party must be united to win. Or as President Johnson said: It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.

With only a hint of sarcasm, I accept Obama and Howard Dean’s word that Michigan and Florida will be seated. Therefore, Hillary is currently 9 delegates behind Obama today and will likely be ahead tomorrow. A stolen nomination is a lost election, and superdelegates cannot allow that to happen.

The superdelegates are at a crossroads: they could placate Obama’s wing of the Party (and the ObamaMedia) and accept certain defeat, or they can select Hillary and win a victory and usher in a historic era of activist government.

Thanks to Mary Jo Kopechne, PhD, for her assistance with this essay.

  • Hillary is the Best

    http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/04/22/should-clinton-quit-if-she-doesn%e2%80%99t-win-pa-by-at-least-10-points/

    pls fix this cafferty guy on CNN

    HE IS ALWAYS PLAYING SEXISM CARD TO HILLARY

    i hate him ,,

    why he is so biased ,,,,,

  • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

    Hey Larry! Fat Teddy is in PA talking about equal pay for women. He’s gonna fight? He’s been there HOW many decades? I bet he tosses Obama’s name in there.

    Gotta love Teddy. Boinks anything that moves and pretends to care.

    • hillarysmygirl

      Okay, Uppity, as if we didn’t have enough reasons NOT to vote for Obama, and as if the Super delegates didn’t have enough reasons NOT to vote for Obama:

      From the blog Common Ills:

      Sam Graham-Felsen was a student at Harvard…the “official campaign blogger” for Obama. He apparently started that job very early judging by the drools he published at The Nation over his man-crush…And exactly what is a Democratic candidate doing with a staffer who acts as the campaign’s public face when the staffer is featured in a Marxist publications?

      Sam is a member of the Socialist Workers Organization. He explains what that is in an article from the May/June 2006 volume of Socialist Viewpoint.

      The Socialist Workers Organization was formed to advance the revolutionary Marxist political program in the United States. Our members are long time active participants in the socialist and labor movements. We agree with Karl Marx that society is divided into social classes whose interests are irreconcilable.

      *****************

      Yet another dubious member of Obama’s campaign…God help us!

  • Palomino

    “If we want to usher in a new progressive Era, we must find a new national coalition, somewhat similar to Roosevelt’s New Deal alliance, that will dominate American politics for the next four decades or so. We must also identify a formula for winning the Electoral College. Obama’s crazy quilt of states, heterogeneous congeries of supporters, and odd assortment of potential Electoral College votes can never do this. The key to replacing the old reactionary Southern strategy of the Republicans may well be a Southwest strategy for progressive Democrats. We have already noted that Mrs. Clinton has carried the Latino vote by a margin of two to one, and has also carried the Asian vote by a similar two to one margin. Latino voters and Asian voters represent two of the most dynamic classes of voters in the United States today–they represent in many ways a wave of the future. If we add in women, trade union families, blue-collar workers, retired people, blacks, the lower middle class and the broad middle class, plus immigrant groups, we can see the outlines of a national coalition capable of dominating the American political scene for the foreseeable future. . . . The lesson of all this is that Mrs. Clinton’s campaign so far adumbrates a durable winning combination for the Democratic Party among key sociological groups and in the Electoral College. Obama, by contrast, offers an odd assortment of states, an incongruous slapdash coalition, a random congeries, a crazy quilt or checkerboard of states where he might conceivably muddle through. By now it should be plain to all that 2008 will go down in history as a great watershed year in the latest party realignment of American politics, joining such landmark elections as the Jacksonian Democrats of 1828, the Lincoln Republicans of 1860, the Wall Street Republicans of 1896, the magnificent Franklin D. Roosevelt New Deal of 1932, and the abominable reactionary Nixon success of 1968. The house we build this year is the one we will have to live in until the midpoint of the 21st century, so it is imperative to step back from the Obama craze and its swarming adolescents and soberly measure what is at stake.”–W. G. Tarpley, Obama: The Postmodern Coup, pp. 126, 158-59

  • DownriverDem

    Wow, until I found sites like yours, I didn’t even know where Hillary’s supporters are hanging out. My other favorite progressive sites are pushing Obama 24/7 and trashing Hillary.

    I have been saying for months that Obama can not win in November. Sad to say, but there are too many racists not dead yet. We must get Hillary nominated and deal with the naive Obama supporters.

    We do not want another Nixon v McGovern or a 1968 convention.

  • alibe

    Since they aren’t counting Fl and MI, To balance that disenfranchisement out, why don’t we not count 2 other states of equal delegate votes that Obama won. That way the current states that are being punished won’t feel so bad and the 2 new states who will be disenfranchised won’t really care or won’t care enough to bother in the general election. Do you think they would mind? Instead of Hillary taking the hit, we will make the hit even. Of coarse did Obama even win two states as big as FL and MI???

  • nina

    If you haven’t seen this video of Hillary Clinton please do. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCG5Tp4ZwZI

    • dem08

      Thank you for sharing that video of Hillary Clinton. I really enjoyed it. I recommend all of PA and the rest of the other states who still need to vote to watch this video. It’s so uplifting!

  • http://lesstalkmoreactivism.blogspot.com whoframedrudy

    “please don’t lump all of the African American community into a group as in “riot in Denver”. If there were to be such a demonstration, it will be punks led by that Kos group, possibly move-on.”

    Yes. Trying to incite blacks to riot is a tactic of radical white leftists. Ralph Ellison described this in the seminal black novel ‘Invisible Man.’

  • http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo Kopechne

    OT

    If you haven’t seen this YouTube about Oprah, the anti-Christ, see it. It’s gotten over 5 million viewers and connects her anti-Christian spiritualism with her endorsement of Obama. Not going to help him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA&feature=related

    • John

      Anyone who owns an XM Radio knows all about Oprah’s bizarre cultish spiritualism. Her “Soul Series” is all about brain-sucking hypnotist hosts telling people that they are perfect just the way they are, and that the path to happiness is through navel-gazing narcissism. They bleat out the most inane nonsense imaginable; I keep waiting for the laugh track to kick in.

      And that’s just the COMMERCIALS for Oprah’s channel. I have never been high enough to risk listening to an actual show.

  • Eddie

    Who would the rioters be? Hmmmm. Must read on the Obama campaign’s official blogger.

    http://thecommonills.blogspot.com/2008/04/sam-graham-felsen-stands-for-what.html

    Behind the bar, in the corner, hangs a Communist Party flag that Sam and Kieran bought on their trip to Russia the summer after sophomore year.

    Starting with campaign news. “Sam” hanging the Communist Party flag is Sam Graham-Felsen
    and the above is from Daniela J. Lamas’s June 2003 “The Four-Year Path to a Quincy Suite” (Harvard Crimson) when Sam Graham-Felsen was a student at Harvard. His roommates gift him with a guitar (the article informs) and he passes on Marx (Karl, not Groucho). Sam is, of course, the “official campaign blogger” for Obama. He apparently started that job very early judging by the drools he published at The Nation over his man-crush. What brings the two together other than Sam’s starry-eyed desire? Who knows?

  • http://lkcampbell.blogspot.com Lucinda

    I’m really tired of hearing about how negative Hillary is and how Obama only wants to discuss the issues. Have the people saying this ever been to one of her rallies? All she’s done for 15 months is talk about the issues and not just talk but give detailed plans for how she will solve the problems we face.
    A lot of the negative stuff that’s come out about Obama didn’t come from Hillary or her campaign. She learned about it the same way the rest of us did—through Fox News and the bloggers.

  • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

    Good stuff from Hill HQ!

    I’ve made the links active, for your convenience.

    Ciao,

    G-N-G

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7239
    PRESS RELEASE

    4/22/2008
    HUBdate: Election Day in Pennsylvania

    Previewing Today: This morning, Hillary visits Pennsylvanians as they go to the polls. Tonight, Hillary will celebrate Election Day in Philadelphia, PA at the Park Hyatt Philadelphia.

    “Who Do You Think Has What it Takes?” An ad released yesterday offers Hillary’s closing argument to Pennsylvania: “It’s the toughest job in the world. You need to be ready for anything – especially now, with two wars, oil prices skyrocketing and an economy in crisis. Harry Truman said it best – if you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Who do you think has what it takes?” Watch Here.

    Who is Hillary Clinton? From the Huffington Post: “If you want to know what Hillary believes in, what she stands for, and what’s in her heart, then look at what she’s been fighting for her whole life: she’s been fighting for people who need help… And Hillary’s supporters are standing up for her, because they know she will stand up for them as President, as their advocate abroad and their champion at home. They are standing up for her, because they know she will work her heart out for them. And they know that, because that’s what she’s been doing her whole life.” Read more.

    If You Watch One Thing Today: Hillary tells Larry King, “I think it’s important that we have an election that asks people who they would hire for the toughest job in the world.” Watch here and here.

    Madame President: “Joined by her husband and daughter,…Hillary…wrapped up her final Pennsylvania campaign push last night at a passionate rally at the packed and sweltering Palestra. [Hillary said:] ‘This has been an extraordinary campaign, and it has been for all the right reasons,’ Clinton told the audience…who frequently drowned her out by stomping on the old bleachers of the University of Pennsylvania’s arena.” Read more.

    Hoosiers for Hillary: Across Indiana, Hillary supporters will participate in phone banks today to reach out to Pennsylvania voters during the final hours of the primary there.

    Oregon for Hillary: 20 prominent Oregonians have joined Hillary’s state steering committee. These supporters know Hillary “understands Oregon’s needs and who has the experience to work with our state to get things done,” said Steering Committee Chair Josh Kardon. Read more.

    On Tap: Tomorrow, Hillary returns to Indiana. She will make stops across the Hoosier state through Saturday, sharing her plans to jumpstart the economy, create jobs, and strengthen the middle class.

  • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

    Pennsylvania today! I’m so excited!!!!

    • simon, too

      I think it’s finally starting to penetrate the heads of those thick little bots that Obama has a problem, here, they are vulnerable.

      Welcome to the real world.

      It’s going to get worse, for Obama, far far far worse.

  • http://www.myspace.com/rokski Paul F. Villarreal AKA “Universal” AKA “RokSki”

    Excellent work, Bud. No surprise there. This is all about the superdelegates now, no matter what anyone says about pledged delegates, etc.

    And on that note, I wanted to let you guys know that I just finished an article over at my site which ties together: A Chicago Sun Times article from today which discusses how Obama’s ‘brand’ has suffered in PA; the proper way to look at and frame today’s contest; the political realities facing our party if Barack Obama is made our nominee; how North Carolina can’t ’save’ Obama in the eyes of the superdelegates; and the idiotic decision which our party’s leaders are on course to make and a decision which will ultimately cost them their jobs:

    Chicago Sun Times: PA damages Obama’s ‘brand’

    Hope you enjoy it!

    You may also likely enjoy the back-and-forth my brother and I have had with several Obama fans on a few of the other “Politics” sticky threads. Once again, some Obamabots have gone to the apparently irresistible ethnic card to try to compensate for their faulty, invalid ‘logic.’ All are more than welcome to come join in the merriment of Obama supporters demonstrating to the world the barrenness of their belief in the amorphous, incoherent “change” and “hope” Obama catchphrases.

    Paul F. Villarreal AKA “Universal” AKA “RokSki”

  • mjc

    big baby barack just wants to eat his waffle, so, superdelegates, better not pick him. he’ll just want to eat his waffle if he gets nominated. not debate, or talk to the press, or write up policy plans, etc. just give a fancy speech and eat his waffle.

    check out the vid.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=xbk9RXcEUIc

    sorry its a fox clip.

  • JSilverheels

    Rationally, you make an airtight case. Unfortunately, rationality is out the window in this nomination process, and Obama will get it. I say that even though I think Hillary will win PA by 12 points.

  • http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/ Gloria

    Part III: Obama Adviser David L. Boren re: Foreign (inc. Energy) Policy
    http://insightanalytical.wordpress.com/

    Maybe more people would think twice about Obama if they really examined the company he keeps…David L. Boren, his new adviser on “foreign policy,” for one….

    This is the final installment on my 3-part series on Boren. Anyone who really thinks Obama is going to bring change on energy and foreign policy is delusional!

    • formerhoosier

      Gloria,

      Reclusive Leftist has an article about seeds of a new progressive blogosphere. Recommended your blog specifically for your articles on Obama advisors. Very good insight and depth. Thanks for your contribution. (btw, NQ is on list)

  • kenoshaMarge

    If the SD’s do their job then if Hillary is gaining momentum by winning PA and IA, and if, mighty big if, the votes are counted in FL and MI then she should have the popular vote. If she does I don’t see how SD’s can do anything but choose her. But much as I am hoping for her and wishing for her and pulling for her, unless she has the popular vote going into the convention I don’t see how she can win.

    So, you people in Pennsylvania, get out there and support her. Vote for her. Talk it up.

    Plus I like scary smart people that know what they’re talking about. I think that’s a good thing to have in a president. But that’s just me.

    • bwana

      pretty hard to argue credibly that you have momentum when you’re behind in popular votes and delegates and $10-15 million in the red.

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        Yeah isn’t it interesting how someone can outspend you 4 to 1 and you can still whoop his butt today by double digits?

        • http://noratings.blogspot.com/ Bud White

          I agree. Losing big swing states is not a great strategy for victory.

        • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

          Good morning Uppity,

          America loves the underdog — look at McCain, he came back against lots of money stacked against him. The Clinton’s are tenacious and tough as nails, and Hill will pull off the miracle! :)

          The trolls will try to harm our morale with “clever” drive-by one-liners from their talking point list trying to lessen what they know will be Hill’s huge victory today. And in keeping with their mindset and strategy of blame shifting, BO’s dismal performance in another HUGE ASS state will be everyone’s fault except that numbnuts BO and his supporters for putting him on a pedestal he has no logical right to be on in the first place.

          Our morale remains high! :)

          America will never put its nuclear arsenal in the hands BO when he can’t even discern basic truths like people like Wright and Ayers should never be your mentors or friends. That’s what this is all about. It amazes me anyone could drink enough Kool-aid not to see this. America will never elect a President who coddles terrorists.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            Good morning fellow hated Italian!

        • Jeff

          “Yeah isn’t it interesting how someone can outspend you 4 to 1 and you can still whoop his butt today by double digits?”

          We’ll see about that, won’t we?

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            We sure will.

            Oh one more thing, I can’t find our posts on AAs and all the other voters. Just wondering, do you think the Latinos will vote for Barack Obama, given the fact that they have been solidly republican in the last two elections and given the rift we had best not deny between AAs and Latinos?

        • bwana

          start with a 15-20 point lead and win by single digits — wow. very impressive momentum.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            You must be watching CNN. Remember Ohio? Nevermind.

            Only Barack Obama could lost a huge primary and spin it as a win. It’s magic!

      • Jeff

        Amen.

      • kenoshaMarge

        Reading comprehension a problem bwana? Or were you in such a big hurry to refute what I said that you missed the word “if”.

        Because I’ve read things you’ve posted before I am not surprised that you aren’t bothered by little things like facts. Just looking for a fight and preening in the hope of getting some attention.

        Poor, sad little attention troll.

        • John

          Obamabots only see what they want to see. That’s why they’ll be popping champagne corks tonight to celebrate if their hero gets within ten points of Hillary in PA.

  • scott

    Barack Obama has not taken questions from his traveling press corps in the form of a media availability for ten days now. While we don’t expect to have one prior to when polls close tomorrow in Pennsylvania,

    Senior Advisor David Axelrod told reporters today, “I’m sure that he’ll be spending time with you sometime soon.”

    Isn’t that sweet, Barry’s gonna spend some time with the press when he’s good and well ready.

    I guess he’s still chewing on his waffle.

  • http://www.writehillaryin.com jmk

    A different view? What’s made the AA voters so important in this primary is they were manipulated into believing they had to support bo or told they’d betray their race.

    FACT Significant AA leaders are becoming more vocal in their support of Hillary.. been said that bo is setting back civil rights reputation and they don’t like it. Brave, smooth articulate Philly mayor helping these AA Hill supporters come out more. Possible that block may start to shift – or at least wiggle over – in the PA vote results today. Many don’t really want to vote with race as an issue, they are just as concerned about economy and war as we all are.

    Also: No reason for Dems to expect total loss of this demographic with HIllary as the candidate. Statistics (updated yesterday) indicate a small part of bo’s camp say they won’t support Hillary. These few are making the noise. However, many HIllary supporters absolutely won’t support bo – with good cause.

    And, even the MSM is giving up on the nightmare of a combined ticket. Many avid pro-HIllary supporters don’t trust bo whatsoever and consider his far left sympathies very dangerous. With the (even limited) power of the VP, he could wreak havoc in international affairs and Pres. Hill doesn’t need her time wasted cleaning up his faux pas and false promises – here or abroad.

    Finally, as long as Hillary’s base keeps expanding with 1) crucial votes of white males 2) more and more students are coming her way 3) as a volunteer caller I’ve been watching a trend since Ohio in which more ENTIRE families are voting for her as a block and 4) let’s see tonight how she does with the Catholic vote – remember Casey is Catholic and has been glued to bo’s hip hop across the state. If Hill takes the Catholic vote anyway, that is a strong sign also, that bo’s glamor endorsements, again, aren’t working.

    Am holding the Vision Light dawns on the party and HILL is the nominee with the multitude of bo scandals disqualifying his credibility as even a VP. Riots in Denver? If so, will NOT hurt the Dem vote – these are different times and any moron knows, if you care about the economy and you want out of Iraq, YOU DON’T VOTE MCCAINE.

  • glennmcgahhee

    I’m a Florida voter and we haven’t given up yet. We are holding rallys all over the state this weekend and next to have our delegates seated and our votes counted. We are very determined. I don’t think that the DNC will turn their back to us. They need us. On another note, please don’t lump all of the African American community into a group as in “riot in Denver”. If there were to be such a demonstration, it will be punks led by that Kos group, possibly move-on and it will would be like the brooks brothers rioters that banged on the doors down here to shut down the re-count of the 2000 election when Gore won. They were effective at the time, but the party will be able to handle it if they are truly Democrats. They might be fakes ala Karl Rove types pretending to be Democrats to make us look bad. It was only later that we learned that the Brooks Brother rioters were GOP operatives flown in from all over the country to make it look as though they were Floridians. They were anything but.

    • beebop

      Thank you for that reminder about the recount.

      Anyone who truly values the privilege of casting a free vote and has watched this country struggle to enfranchise all Americans is outraged that two key states are being disenfranchised now. If Senator Obama weren’t the key to blocking revotes in both instances, he wouldn’t find himself the center of criticism on this issue.

      To use terms like “rules” when we have lost American lives to get Iraqis so that they could cast their ballots is just INSANE to me. I cannot believe that this is the Democratic party advocating this.

      • pm317

        My feeling, exactly. I am a fairly recent citizen and have been here for 20 years (from India). Though India prides itself as a democracy, it is a hit and miss with a number of elections at different levels. Many are infiltrated by thugs and corruption(we call them goondas) and those candidates win. When we first came here and even as recently as the 90s, we were enamored by the sophisticated electorate and how well informed they were. The last two elections and the current one have been a huge disappointment. We did not side with the repubs for a reason. But now Obama with the conduct of his campaign has blurred that distinction. I am also sorry to say, that he has blurred the distinction with other third world democracies with his stance on FL and MI. That is what is so galling to me.

  • http://www.grotte-de-han.be/index.php?docID=132 chatsauvage

    Obama and McCain are tied in Massachusetts. That is a recipe for disaster.

    • beebop

      Uncle Teddy will not be happy.

      • http://www.grotte-de-han.be/index.php?docID=132 chatsauvage

        Then Uncle Teddy, Gasbag Kerry and Vacuous Deval can cast their votes for Hillary.

  • audacity

    today, a SD from Montana, retracted her vote for Obama and is undecided

    no headline?!

    • DisenfranchisedVoter

      Wow. I would love to read more about this later in the day. Would be a nice cherry on top of what should be a great day for Clinton.

  • http://www.hillaryclinton.com terrondt

    momentum is building for hillary. GO PA!!!

  • DisenfranchisedVoter

    First, a petition to vote against Obama in the general election that will be sent to the DNC: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/pledge-to-vote-against-obama-in-the-general-election

    The superdelegates aren’t stupid. They know what we know about Obama’s HUGE problems if he’s the nominee. I think most of the remaining superdelegates are for Hillary. They are waiting for tomorrow’s results and possibly Indiana before coming out for anyone. I’m crossing my fingers for a double digit win for Hillary. 10 points would be more than enough to show that Obama, even with all of his money and resources, has an electability problem. I’m hoping she can win by even more but it’s anyone’s guess how many undecideds go to Hillary as well as turnout among AAs for Obama and Catholics for Hillary.

    The superdelegates, no matter how unelectable Obama is, don’t want to overturn the will of the people and right now Obama is in the lead. We’ll deal with MI and FL later but right now he is in the lead. The superdelegates are very confused as to what they can do until Clinton can prove to the world that in late April, she still beats Barack’s ass in blue states and swing states like PA. NOTHING has changed since Super Tuesday and in fact Obama’s support is collapsing now among white voters because of Rev. Wright, Ayers, and his comments about small town Americans. This is what she needs to prove and PA might be the primary that will seal the deal for Clinton. She’ll win but it’s just a matter of by how much and how huge is Obama’s problem courting whites, Catholics, women, and lower income voters.

  • Percy

    I love the theory behind the article, yet this assumes that SuperDelegates will do the job they have in front of them and actually apply logic and an 360 view of the entire primary process and what it will take to win in the fall.

    YET…. Tom Ryan proves they are not up to the task because he is taking an online poll. Shaking head …. if this is how he decides we are all in trouble.

  • mel

    See Jamal on Larry King at the end, he was smiling but at the same time his lower lip was quivering…lol

    • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

      He’s so darned cute though. But watching him stretch to defend Obama sometimes is downright painful. Roland seems to have a lot less shame when it comes to that. Roland could take a video of Obama drowning puppies and somehow call it a good thing.

      • Mel

        Did you notice the only thing he could bring up is change in Washington as a point to sell Obama and Clinton’s supporter never got to answer that, although Clinton did in her interview say:

        “Just because you are President, you think because you say something everyone is going to stand up and do it”

        Jamal was shot down on the crossing the line to get things done, and yet he continued his big ole grin….lol

        His Iraq deal shot down, big ole grin again..lol

        Ah Just words, such an amazing thing isn’t it!

  • mel

    See the comments after Hill on Larry King, Snow said it all, Obama not ready for Prime time, the is no way anyone in Washington is going to change because a President says so! Tony Snow just said Clinton is better in Nov, if Obama keeps imploding, which is Obama’s experience! Snow won’t be around much longer in CNN…….lol

    • Jeff

      “See the comments after Hill on Larry King, Snow said it all, Obama not ready for Prime time, the is no way anyone in Washington is going to change because a President says so! Tony Snow just said Clinton is better in Nov, if Obama keeps imploding, which is Obama’s experience! Snow won’t be around much longer in CNN…….lol”

      Yes, the most trustworthy analysis of the Democratic race always comes from right-wing thugs recently departed from the current administration. Whoever they say we should run is definitely the way to go. Why don’t we just dispense with the nominating process right now?

    • mimi

      I take Snow’s presence on CNN as a sign they are feeling the loss of viewers. And that’s a good thing!

      Hooray! The boycott is working.

  • jes

    I think that if the blacks riot at the Denver convention that they will PO a lot of people.

    That’s not the way to win an election for your candidate. It’s a form of thuggish intimidation.

    And so is calling everyone a racist who doesn’t vote for your candidate of choice.

    • Janis

      I’m not entirely sure that any theoretical rioters would be African-American. I can see bored young white guys doing most of the damage, really. I’ve had more r-bombs lobbed and nearly lobbed at me by white people over this election than any black people.

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        Can you say McGovern?

      • lifelong dem leaving party

        doesn’t matter who riots. riots = dem loss.

        i remember ’68 too well. not a good scene.

        and it resulted in over 2 decades of repub dominance (with a brief detour for one-term carter, in reaction to watergate).

        if there are riots this year, will be the same result. and by the time the damage has worn off a little, the kids who made the mess will be middle-aged and probably voting repub.

        i see dean and his crowd thinking oh we can’t have riots so we’d better nominate obama. stupid thought process. then what’s next – oh we can’t have riots, better nominate _________? oh we can’t have riots, better ______-?

        takes balls to say no, we won’t be bullied into doing the wrong thing. sadly, don’t think dean has any.

        • beebop

          It also just takes leadership to allow the process to work its way through. Six weeks ago he hadn’t pissed off working men and women with his ridiculous uber liberal analysis of guns and faith and thrown “immigration” in there to make his real point. The additional damage to his image at the debate was severe. Gallup results seem to reflect that — 10 point swing? —

          The people who still get the majority of their news from the newspapers and network news are seniors …. the New York Times article this morning doesn’t go that far, but here is one of the points they do make in an article that published this morning:

          Age is likely to play a particularly strong role in the Democratic primary Tuesday in Pennsylvania. The outmigration of young people has left the state with the second-highest proportion of people over 65 in the country, after Florida. Fifty-eight percent of registered Democrats are older than 45, a consistent dividing line in the race.

          As an enduring part of Mrs. Clinton’s coalition — which also includes blue-collar workers, Roman Catholics and women — older voters are expected to vote lopsidedly for her.

          This is another really crucial discussion topic the next time we hear from a bot that racism is a problem of the white community:

          Only race is a stronger predictor of voting than age, and then only if a voter is black, not if he or she is white.

          http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/22/us/politics/22age.html

        • The Gringo’s Wife

          You know we aren’t in the ’60s. Not the ‘S either.

          As a matter of fact nothing is the same. Trying to predict what will happen based on the past is no longer valuable.

          Why? Besides the dizzying effect of the information revolution (Net and then some, there is no Republican party to speak of anymore. The Neocons destroyed it. What is left the elephant’s skeleton waiting to flesh out. Do you honestly believe that there will exist a Democratic party as it stood before Barry came to the picture and while the Elite Dems position themselves to crown a winner while not counting our votes in FL and MI?

          Guess who will be fleshing out the Elephant? This is like first day of elementary school.

          The disenfranchised democrats and the old Republicans who moved to the Dems back in 2000.

          I am in no fear of that because in reality they will be Americans who love their country even if they view things differently.

          I am not married to any party. I am dedicated to my country. I will vote accordingly.

          Barry does not fall into that category anymore than Dick Chaney does. So there is no way that I would vote for a person whom I thought did not love their country and who’s idea of change came from a man who preaches we should “God Damn America!”

          No way in hell I am voting for THAT GUY. I don’t care what party he is with.

        • mimi

          And you know the tragic part, with a Republcian administration, there will be no sympathy to clean up AA communities that have been rioted in. Not with the economy the way it is. Take one look at New Orleans. And that was a NATURAL DISASTER.

          What a lot of Obama’s people don’t realize is this: IT’S A DIFFERENT WORLD.

      • http://noratings.blogspot.com/ Bud White

        I think you’re right, and they are the ones who have pushed the story of a riot as well.

    • John

      I happen to think that if Hillary is nominated and we see a lot of screaming Obamabots, white and black, tearing their hair out and rioting, that could be GREAT for Hillary.

      The message is: Hillary is not the candidate of the nutcases. The Elite Kool-aid drinking wing of the Democratic party is not for her. She held tough and kept fighting and won when the media and the DNC said she should quit.

      Not a candidate of the raving lunatic fringe. Not a candidate of the entrenched politicians. OUR candidate. And only ours.

    • Jeff

      “I think that if the blacks riot at the Denver convention that they will PO a lot of people.”

      “That’s not the way to win an election for your candidate. It’s a form of thuggish intimidation.”

      “And so is calling everyone a racist who doesn’t vote for your candidate of choice.”

      You know what’s “racist”? Assuming with no supporting evidence that the “blacks” will “riot at the Denver convention” if they don’t get their way.

      • John

        I usually don’t bother replying to clueless trolls, but I just have to point out that I wrote “white and black” when I described the rioters. You chose to see only the word “black.”

        Says a hell of a lot about you, doesn’t it, Jeff? Who’s the racist here?

        • Jeff

          Hey smart guy, guess what I wasn’t responding to you. Read my quotes, that’s why I put them there. I was clearly responding to “jes”, who wrote the following:

          Comment by jes | 2008-04-21 23:42:18

          I think that if the blacks riot at the Denver convention that they will PO a lot of people.

          That’s not the way to win an election for your candidate. It’s a form of thuggish intimidation.

          And so is calling everyone a racist who doesn’t vote for your candidate of choice.

          You know who’s clueless? The guy who reads criticism of writing not his own, then attacks the critic for misquoting him.

      • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

        You know what’s “racist”? Assuming with no supporting evidence that the “blacks” will “riot at the Denver convention” if they don’t get their way.

        Hello again Jeff,

        I saw this with my own eyes:

        A mayor of a large city and Obama supporter was on MSNBC maybe a couple months ago. He warned of riots if Obama was not nominated when he had the popular vote.

        I think statements like the above from the mayor are reckless and I think it ill-advised to engage in self-fulfilling prophecy.

        This is just my opinion, but I took the mayor’s remarks to mean he was using fear of riots to force an outcome in BO’s favor.

        I hope my observations help. I’m sure we can find a clip of the MSNBC interview I am referring to. I pray the Obama campaign itself had nothing to do with the Mayor’s remarks.

        • Jeff

          Which “large city”? Yes, I would like to see that clip.

          • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

            Jeff,

            I did a quick search, but let me dig. I’ll E-mail MSNBC as well.

            Thanks

          • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

            Jeff,

            I looked through my notes and found more information:

            The interview was on February 19, 2008.

            On MSNBC’s “Tucker,” approximately 6:40PM Eastern. I don’t have this in my E-mail, but I recall it was a guest host on the show.

            The guest was Richmond Mayor Doug Wilder. This was my immediate recollection after I saw the interview:

            There could be rioting in the streets at the convention if the super delegates go against the “will of the people.”

            He is also saying as a super delegate in the past he always felt he should vote the way the people of his state voted.

            Maybe someone can dig up a video clip for you or someone on this blog will have it.

            Hope this helps! :)

            • Jeff

              thanks GNG–I will do some research on my own, too.

      • mimi

        Um, check out the Situation Room transcript when former Gov Doug Wilder was on. He pushed the riot meme. Sorry, but it was not Hillary supporters who started that notion. The last thing we would want is anything like that.

        Please don’t try anything so disengenuous again. We’re not confused even if you are.

  • Prabhata

    I’m more generous in my view as to why the Dem leadership is afraid of a fight at the convention. The fear is that the AA voter will stay home if they believe BO’s nomination was stolen. Without the AA, Demos are in trouble. We must not allow that to happen any more than allowing the working class in the rust belt to feel forgotten and abused, as they did when they voted for Reagan. I think it’s valid concern, and BO, owes the AA voters an explanation why he did not win OH,CA, MA, and yeah, PA. That explanation cannot be the bs that he gave at the fundraisers in SF. BO will have to admit first that he lost because he is a LOUSY candidate for POTUS.

    • http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo Kopechne

      Well said, Prabhata.

      I’ve heard that Dean (and Obama) want to seat the FL and MI delegates at the convention after a nominee has been selected. Has anyone else heard that? I’m hoping that it’s just a rumor to prove how stupid Dean is acting.

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        FLA and MICH are HUGE issues. They should have been allowed a revote and that was blocked. And they know who blocked those revotes. They are NOT in a good mood.

        It is true that the AA community might not vote in as large a block. It is also very true that 28% of Clinton supporters will not vote for Barack Obama. So either way, they lose.

        • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

          Right now the Obama campaign is operating on a 48 state approach. Without Florida and Michigan, we are doomed. And they are NOT willing to not be counted. We will pay in the end.

          • sister of ye

            I sent my DNC renewal form back with a fake $100 bill and a note saying it reflected what the DNC thought of my MI vote. Hopefully whoever opened it kicked the feedback up the line.

        • mimi

          I think that it would be a split among AAs. Sure, this will fire up that recalcitrant group who will stay home, write in Obama’s name or even vote for McCain. But there are a lot of AAs who will come back to their senses. Especially because Hillary will woo them with an urban plan to help the problems of inner city youth like crime, jobs and deal with the high drop out rate among AA high school students. Issues that Obama is not even discussing, btw, because he’s still trying to be the transcendent, post-racial candidate and the AA community has fooled themselves into believing that they are being politically shrewd by not demanding he address any of our issues. This is the reason Tavis Smiley got into hot water with AAs.

          I know in NY, a lot of AAs will recognize that Hillary is our Senator, after all, and that could only mean good stuff for the citizens of NYS. Now in places like Georgia, SC, there might be problems. These are places where Obama fever has reached hysterical proportions.

          But everyone always talks about Hillary campaigning for Obama for the sake of Party unity should he be the nominee. Wouldn’t Obama have to do the same? Or does he get a pass for some reason?

          It’s too bad that AAs refuse to recognize that our interests have not been served with Obama’s candidacy. I think the Party leadership should look at the AA voting bloc on a state-by-state basis. For ex: Democrats never win SC anyway, so who cares if the AA community stays home? Are AA south Carolinians going to not vote for their Representatives in Congress and their state and local officals? I doubt it. My point is many AAs, especially the new voters may revolt, but I think others in the long run will come around.

          On personal level, my elderly in-laws say they won’t vote for Hillary. Trust me, between now and Nov. I will do my best to persuade them otherwise and they will be more than happy to vote for her. OTOH, nothing anyone can say will make me give Barack Obama my vote. He is simply not qualified to be POTUS. And his dropping out of the NC debate as well as his refusal to speak to the press in recent days has only validated my attitude. It’s beyond the final nail in the coffin for me. He is dead, buried and set in the ground.

        • sjc-tx

          If they nominate bo WITHOUT counting FL & MI, he will have “stolen” the election. – NOT LEGITIMATE! So why isn;t there an argument about all the Clinton supporters getting in an uproar? Race card. Thats why! barry has been playing that stacked hand ALL along! Well the last hand to be dealt has yet to be dealt… and it ain’t about race baby!!!

    • street_parade

      There was a thread on TalkLeft yesterday where part of the discussion was about AA turnout in the SC primary. I believe the % turnout was 55% compared to 50% in the ’04 general.

      That was a very interesting stat in that, while it was certainly a very strong turnout, it was not some world changing increase. You get quite a different view when you look at that number compared to what the MSM reports. The MSM meme is that BO is driving unprecedented numbers of AA’s to the polls. In fact, the % is not that out of alignment with past performance.

      • The Gringo’s Wife

        What many people aren’t talking about and for good reason, is the amount of AAs who are not in support of Barry but who cannot say so openly. There are scores of stories of people being bullied and socially stigmatized as a result of not support this candidate because he is black.

        Those people may or may not show. But the hope is that if they do, they will vote for Hillary. Obama people can’t bully them in the booth. But trust me, many of them are too scared to say anything out loud. See Tavis Smiley.

        If Hillary is the nominee and Barry is out of the question, many AAs will feel more comfortable coming out for Hillary.

        Hey the AOL poll yesterday reall surprised me. I had been following it since January and at that time Hillary was always behind Barry. Yesterday, she had moved up to 63. There has been a swing and it is going for Hillary.

    • Jeff

      “I think it’s valid concern, and BO, owes the AA voters an explanation why he did not win OH,CA, MA, and yeah, PA.”

      I don’t see how that “explanation” will keep the AA vote interested in a candidate who they gave about 10% of their vote to, especially if she manages to steal the nom from Obama at the convention.

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        The assumption here that all we need to win an election is the AA vote is really getting kind of silly isn’t it? I mean, are you sure that’s all we need? We don’t need those nasty White Men that person in Huffpo mentioned, we don’t need Typical White Women, we don’t need Women over 40, we don’t need gays, we don’t need hicks, we don’t need Jews. We just need AAs and 20 year olds. Ok, I guess the math adds up. McGovern thought so too.

        • Jeff

          “The assumption here that all we need to win an election is the AA vote is really getting kind of silly isn’t it? I mean, are you sure that’s all we need?”

          I never said any such thing. You’re putting words in my mouth. Read my quote again:

          “I don’t see how that “explanation” will keep the AA vote interested in a candidate who they gave about 10% of their vote to, especially if she manages to steal the nom from Obama at the convention.”

          Although now that you mention it, there’s no way Democrats win a general election without at least 80% of the AA vote.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            I wasn’t aware you were the only one in this conversation. Barry Obama can get 100% of the AA vote, of which 50% of them normally vote and he is still not going to be elected president. He has just plain ticked off too many voting blocks who won’t have a problem voting for McCain, if for no other reason, fear of Obama more than fear of McCain This is because adults don’t let children pick presidents. I can only refer you again to George McGovern. Anyone who was here will tell you that Barack Obma’s following, including the AA vote is a mirror image of that race, almost to the point of uncanny. One MAJOR difference is the ability of swift boaters to enter the scene. It’s a bust, Jeff. It’s just the way it is.

            • Jeff

              “It’s a bust, Jeff. It’s just the way it is.”

              You know what’s a “bust”? Running the worst primary campaign in modern Democratic politics. You know what’s even worse? Blowing a lock on the Democratic nomination. Pretty hard to win a general election without that, isn’t it?

          • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

            “I don’t see how that “explanation” will keep the AA vote interested in a candidate who they gave about 10% of their vote to, especially if she manages to steal the nom from Obama at the convention.”

            Hello Jeff,

            Thanks for your contributions to the thread.

            Obama and Hillary agreed to certain rules prior to running for President. These rules allow for the Super D’s to decide the outcome in certain cases. The Super D’s will decide this and the election won’t be stolen. I find that an unfair remark (“…if she manages to steal the nom.”)

            Don’t forget, Obama will be duty bound as a Democrat to campaign hard for Hillary and rally his AA supporters and urge them to vote for Hillary. I think if he puts his heart into such an effort, he could get most people to vote for Hillary in the general against McCain.

            Hillary has vowed to work hard for Obama if he is nominated. I think Obama if he has not vowed yet, will vow to do the same.

            I hope my thoughts help. :)

            Ciao,

            G-N-G

            • Jeff

              “Don’t forget, Obama will be duty bound as a Democrat to campaign hard for Hillary and rally his AA supporters and urge them to vote for Hillary. I think if he puts his heart into such an effort, he could get most people to vote for Hillary in the general against McCain.”

              Sure, except that’s not going to happen. Hillary already lost the nomination in February.

              • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

                Hello Jeff,

                You should address my concern that I find your remark unfair ”…if she manages to steal the nom.”

                The rules of the process apply to both candidates, as I stated above.

                Thanks

                • Jeff

                  “You should address my concern that I find your remark unfair ”…if she manages to steal the nom.””

                  Ok, if you insist. You wrote:

                  “Obama and Hillary agreed to certain rules prior to running for President. These rules allow for the Super D’s to decide the outcome in certain cases. The Super D’s will decide this and the election won’t be stolen. I find that an unfair remark (”…if she manages to steal the nom.”)”

                  I have no problem with the super delegates deciding this. But it’s interesting that you point out the obvious: “Obama and Hillary agreed to certain rules prior to running for President.” That’s right–they agreed that MI and FL’s delegates wouldn’t count. But now Hillary–who was completely silent on the matter when the delegate slates were stripped–now is waving the bloody shirt of FL and MI. What happened to “certain rules“, GNG?

                  • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

                    Hello Jeff,

                    You may have me there, partly. And maybe not, I’ll let someone else address the FL and MI issue on the Hill side if they want.

                    But since the FL and MI issue is not resolved:

                    Let’s assume she does not get her way, assuming you are correct and she is not following the rules (I am not conceding that).

                    But assuming so, if at the convention the Super D’s help nominate Hillary, will you still consider it stealing the nomination?

                    FL and MI is far from resolved, and there is the fact the voters rights should be considered, no matter which candidate anyone supports?

                    Thanks, your answers are informative.

              • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

                Hillary already lost the nomination in February.

                Jeff,

                I recall Obama stating pretty recently Hillary should stay in the race. Why would he say that if she already lost back in February?

                Thanks! :)

                • Jeff

                  “I recall Obama stating pretty recently Hillary should stay in the race. Why would he say that if she already lost back in February?”

                  He doesn’t want to be called a sexist bully by the Clinton campaign anymore than he already has been. He also is concerned for the health of the good people at No Quarter, and doesn’t want to see your heads explode.

                  • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

                    He doesn’t have to be called a sexist pig by Hillary. Millions of women already know that he IS a sexist pig.

                    Besides that, somebody forgot to tell Barry that women don’t need his permission to do much of anything, much less stay in a race.

                    Time. Is. Not Barry’s. Friend.

                • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

                  Garlic wasn’t that NICE of Obama to give her permission?

                  • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

                    It’s the women, stupid. And those Italians, and those white men, and those hicks, and those gays, and those Jews, and those Catholics who don’t take well to whatckjob ministers. Ah, let em not believe us. They got the AA and the Yute vote. That should do it. I shall enjoy it either way.

      • mimi

        “….especially if she manages to steal the nom from Obama at the convention.”

        This is the PSYCHE JOB driving the frenzy in the AA community. White Obama supporters like old Jeff here driving that train as hard as he can, stoking the flames of anger, hostitlities and age-old fears. They are exploiting the political ignorance and naivete of the AA voting bloc many of whom simply won’t do the math: AAs cannot bring home the presidency for Obama without the cooperation of other key voting blocs, blocks that he, on his own, has turned off.

        Let’s really talk: Obama will not win FL, he has not won any large states except Illinois. It’s my understanding that the people of the commonwealth of MA will not be fooled twice into voting for an unqualified candidate who campaigned on hope and change. MA is a big blue state for crying out loud! Missouri was a one percentage point win for Obama. That state will roll for McCain in Nov. for certain if Obama is the nominee. Ohio, he lost by too wide a margin for the Dems to feel safe there.

        The Party has lost their mind if they think that Obama is going to win all of the states Hillary won. I guess they are expecting her to campaign really hard for him to turn it around. Excuse me, but that’s a bit much. If he’s the Chosen One, if there’s a Movement, he should be able to win thses voters over on his own steam. Hillary would!

        And let’s not forget the Latino vote. For years I’ve championed a black/latino coalition but AAs have been openly hostile to latinos and now karma is about to catch up with them for such open hostility in our communities and on the political front. In the beginning, before Obama and his people insulted/offended me past the point of NO RETURN, when I was for towing a Party line in Nov., I was going to use my bilingual skills and volunteer for him as an AA with friendly relations in the latino community. I wouldn’t lift a finger to help him now, much less speak on his behalf in Spanish.

        Sorry, but Obama can’t win. When the Rethugs get through with him, he will be a pariah that candidates from his own Party will be avoiding. He doesn’t want to be photographed with the Mayor of SF? Before it’s all over, no one will want to be photgraphed with him.

        Right now I’m scratching my cheek with my middle finger. A neat trick I learned from him.

  • http://www.liberalrapture.com/ John Smart

    9 delegates behind? this is amazing news. can it be true? why have i only ever heard 140 behind?
    i am happy as hell about it – but why has no one else come up with these numbers?

    • Bud White

      Because everyone assumes that MI & Fl are disenfranchised. We should count them now, because if we don’t a Democrat will lose in Nov.

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        I completely agree. This is a serious issue. They will NOT forget.

      • Talktruth

        [Picture of Coward Dean, sitting on his ass, whistling, looking around, nervously glancing at his watch, hoping nobody notices he's waiting out the clock...does he still think nobody's noticed???]

      • The Gringo’s Wife

        You bet they will lose Florida.

        Had a political conversation with my nail tech friend this weekend. We have been friends for about three years. I never spoke politics but I did this weekend.

        Shock! He knew everything! Including Barry’s Fikle Finger event which he had no problem identifying for what it was. He had nothing positive to say about Barry.

        He doesn’t stand a chance in Florida.

        Hillary on the other hand … we all love her here!

      • Jeff

        “We should count them now”

        Right, and if a frog had wings…

  • scott

    Have you kids been to foxnews.com to see the funny church sign?

    • Yvette

      Thanks…that was hilarious.

  • mel

    Bud, it is good, but seated is not counted, and Dean avoids saying that completely

  • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

    This is an excellent piece bud. The problem is you are using logic.

    Obama’s approach to what superdelegates “should” do have nothing whatsoever to do with the actual reason superdelegates were put there to beging with. I did a piece on this here explaining how they came to be and why. The idea here was to avoid another George McGovern disaster, which 19 and 20 year old kids picked the nominee, who in turn got his butt handed to him on a plate, thereby sending the party into the tank for a couple of decades. The superdelegates were put their to ensure this never happened again. They are afraid to do their job now because of the threats of riots.

    I did a piece here, that included an interview with McGovern himself, explaining why superdelegates were put there. We are heading for a mcgovern disaster with Barack Obama.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/04/02/dispelling-the-obama-moose-poop-about-super-delegates/

    • http://myspace.com/loyaldissent Garlic-Nosed Guitarist

      The problem is you are using logic.

      Kool-aid drinkers have a deep problem with that logic thing.

      I don’t believe there will be rioting. And if there was, our country is strong enough to survive them and mob rule sucks anyway.

      People want to be leaders so now they have to lead. Well that’s just too bad and Hill is right in quoting Truman about the heat/kitchen thing.

      A big win will be a huge feather in Hill’s cap and I am hoping the tide finally changes significantly away from the current stalemate in her favor. I think so!

      • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

        Well logic alone, even without the PROPER use of superdelegates, shows us that swing states are not going well for Obama. Florida and Michigan are swing states as well.

        • Jeff

          “Well logic alone, even without the PROPER use of superdelegates, shows us that swing states are not going well for Obama.”

          Right, except for Missouri, Iowa, and Wisconsin, swing states are a bust for Obama.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            Yeah don’t forget Mississippi. I think the Dems took that state one time in the 60s.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            Maybe all the republicans in those states will stay home in November. That should do it.

          • sjc-tx

            These votes were cast BEFORE alot of the major crap was finaly allowed out on obama… ‘bitter’, ayers, G-D america, Hamas, etc… Its a bit of a stetch to ASSUME all these peeple would vote the same again…

          • MOBLUE

            Missouri will not go for Obama in the GE. In the primary, even though Obama won by 10,000 votes, he failed to carry any county other then the typical Dem strongholds. Can’t win that way here in MO and current polls are proving it. Obama is losing to McCain by 8 – 16%.

            • Jeff

              “Missouri will not go for Obama in the GE. In the primary, even though Obama won by 10,000 votes, he failed to carry any county other then the typical Dem strongholds. Can’t win that way here in MO and current polls are proving it. Obama is losing to McCain by 8 – 16%.”

              It’s intellectually dishonest for Clinton supporters to argue that because Hillary can win a state like Ohio in the primaries, she will win it in the general, but that just because Barack won Missouri in the primaries, he can’t win it in the general. You’re having it both ways. Which is it?

  • Yvette

    A super-delegate is holding a poll to see who should get his vote:

    http://votetomryan.com/

    • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

      Well that’s nice. When I voted,it said I already voted and I have never been to that site before.

      • scott

        I voted and it was counted, results showed Barry with a slight lead. I cleared my cookies and tried to vote again and it wouldn’t accept it. I tried another browser and the same thing.

        • scott

          Up,
          maybe since I voted for Hillary, its only accepting 1 vote for her, so her vote has been counted.

          • Strawberrybitch

            Um, Taylor Marsh commenters are saying it’s a joke site started by a comedian.

            • Jeff

              Yep, same here: doesn’t let me vote, says I already voted. If it makes people here happy, for some reason, Hillary is now ahead in the “poll”.

              • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

                It’s not real Jeff, so don’t worry about it. He’s presumably not even a superdelegate.

    • http://thehorizontalworld.blogspot.com/ Mary Jo Kopechne

      This from Taylor Marsh site–Tom Ryan poll is a JOKE/HOAX by a COMEDIAN, it is not real, please let Hillary rapid responders know, and please do not waste any valuable time on this website.

      • Strawberrybitch

        Great minds and all…LOL!

        • JKFriz

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhIBXNfqMA

          See y’all at the polls today.

          • beebop

            Try not to send people to the wrong place. Krama is a bitch. Yours is coming.

          • http://hyper-educated-uppity-woman.blogspot.com Uppity

            Obama’s big head. Perfect.

    • Percy

      Well, if this is how Tom Ryan is making up his mind, he should be kicked out of office.

    • John

      Fake. Ad for some local tv show that needs cash. Not running for mayor and not a superdelegate. Poor taste in timing. Let’s focus on real issues and real places where our voices need to be heard.

    • Angellight

      Michael Moore endorses Obama
      Fresh off the wires today, filmmaker Michael Moore is endorsing Barack Obama for president:

      I want to say a word about the basic decency I have seen in Mr. Obama. Mrs. Clinton continues to throw the Rev. Wright up in his face as part of her mission to keep stoking the fears of White America. Every time she does this I shout at the TV, “Say it, Obama! Say that when she and her husband were having marital difficulties regarding Monica Lewinsky, who did she and Bill bring to the White House for ‘spiritual counseling?’ THE REVEREND JEREMIAH WRIGHT!”

      But no, Obama won’t throw that at her. It wouldn’t be right. It wouldn’t be decent. She’s been through enough hurt. And so he remains silent and takes the mud she throws in his face.

      That’s why the crowds who come to see him are so large. That’s why he’ll take us down a more decent path. That’s why I would vote for him if Michigan were allowed to have an election.

      Full Text

      I don’t care what anyone says — in the primaries, this will help him, if anything.

      • workingclass artist

        Ehemmmm……Preach it to another choir Angel…..

      • John

        Once again, we see an endorsement of Obama that has nothing to do with Obama’s actual abilities or experience, but is all about why Hillary is bad. Notice how endorsements of Hillary NEVER mention Obama? They are always about how Hillary has the experience and toughness to get the job done.

        With Obama, they are always “Here’s Why I Hate Hillary” followed by Obamabot talking points.

        Mr. Moore, how about coming up with ONE REASON why Obama would make a better CANDIDATE and PRESIDENT? And try to do it without mentioning Hillary. I bet you can’t.

      • John

        So, Mr. Moore, you would vote for Obama if Obama allowed Michigan to have an election, huh?

        Mr. Obama is too decent to throw mud at Hillary, is he? Because “it wouldn’t be right?”

        You, sir, have truly gone off the deep end.

      • jyotinc

        If only Rev. Wright act as a pastor or a mentor it will be OK but when he start “hatin” you better hide. Don’t lie and pretend you’re not there when he start spewing unimaginable sermon in the church and holding the Bible at he same time.

      • sister of ye

        Michael Moore makes good movies that say things that need saying. He has deplorable judgment in presidential candidates. Because he and Nader both hate GM and other auto companies, Moore backed him in 2000, ignoring the fact that Nader is anti-union and despises working people.

        Moore has a bug up his butt about the Clintons, and apparently projects onto Obama the image of a minority, working-class hero from a single-parent home. Just don’t notice the professional mom, the well-off step-dad and the bank VP grandmother.

        Go ahead and watch Moore’s movies. Judge your presidential candidates on your own.

        • sjc-tx

          Piggy micheal moore has eaten too many waffles…

      • MessyMarcy

        Ang – the Obama camp has already tried to use this against Clinton. It’s just that nobody much paid any attention so maybe you forgot, or maybe you guys are so desperate you’re into reruns. And of course Obama himself is not going to say any of this stuff. He’s like George W. Bush — too sneaky to say anything himself to someone’s face. His method is to send other people out to try to slime Hillary or to make silly gentures about her when she isn’t present. Yes, a real winner that George W. Obama.

      • alfonso

        YOU BETTER DO YOUR HOMEWORK BECAUSE THE GROUP BEHIND AND HUSSEIN OBAMA HAVE DONE PLENTY OF MUDSLINGING ABOUT HILLARY IN MANY WAYS, AXELROD IS ONE WHO IS ALSO MAYOR DALEYS CHIEF WHO DOWN PLAYS ALL THE GARBAGE ABOUT THE MAYOR AND IS DOING IT FOR HUSSEIN OBAMA ALSO, OBAMA IS A TEFLON SNAKE, PERIOD, A LIAR AND A IDIOT WITH NO EXPERIENCE.

    • Clara Barton

      I’m pretty sure this has been determined to be a hoax.

    • The Gringo’s Wife

      I voted at Ryan’s web page thought I am not sure it counted my vote. It said I had already voted which of course, I had not.

      But it was Hillary way ahead at 54!!! thi morning.

      • Leah

        That site is a scam. That guy isn’t running for anything. Don’t waste your time.

    • fran

      That posting is a joke–the guy is a comedian. Don’t waste your time. He is not the governor of that state.