Comments on: Obama “Indentured Servant to Coal” http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/ Sun, 27 May 2012 08:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: It’s The Homeland, Stupid. Global Warming Is Not The Only Environmental Issue : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1284596 It’s The Homeland, Stupid. Global Warming Is Not The Only Environmental Issue : NO QUARTER Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:36:26 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1284596 [...] easily. NQ Readers may recall that he has not pulled punches on Washington politicians in the past, calling them indentured servants to coal. And this is no different. He lays out the coal industry and their “captured” [...] [...] easily. NQ Readers may recall that he has not pulled punches on Washington politicians in the past, calling them indentured servants to coal. And this is no different. He lays out the coal industry and their “captured” [...]

]]> By: NomNomNom http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1199697 NomNomNom Sat, 02 May 2009 19:12:41 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1199697 http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_55639.shtml 300 Organizations Collectively Say "No To Open-Pit Mining" ...“These companies come here to destroy our mountain, our water supply, our food security and our right to protest. They put us under surveillance, hire civilians to intimidate us and now they want to try and indoctrinate our children,” she says. “We won’t let them, we have been fighting them for three years now and we will continue to fight them until they are all gone.”... “The neoliberal model pursued in particular by President Menem and which continues to a large extent today is one which values business interests and profit over the environment and the well-being of the population,” says Ramon Gomez of the Citizen’s Assembly of San Juan. “This model was imposed on us–there was no consultation whatsoever despite the fact that the arrival of multinational companies and the plundering of our natural resources, has a massive impact on our lives. It would have been suicide for us not to react–we had to come out and defend our lives and the environment. And so we began to organize and to present alternatives.” http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_55639.shtml
300 Organizations Collectively Say “No To Open-Pit Mining”
…“These companies come here to destroy our mountain, our water supply, our food security and our right to protest. They put us under surveillance, hire civilians to intimidate us and now they want to try and indoctrinate our children,” she says. “We won’t let them, we have been fighting them for three years now and we will continue to fight them until they are all gone.”…
“The neoliberal model pursued in particular by President Menem and which continues to a large extent today is one which values business interests and profit over the environment and the well-being of the population,” says Ramon Gomez of the Citizen’s Assembly of San Juan. “This model was imposed on us–there was no consultation whatsoever despite the fact that the arrival of multinational companies and the plundering of our natural resources, has a massive impact on our lives. It would have been suicide for us not to react–we had to come out and defend our lives and the environment. And so we began to organize and to present alternatives.”

]]> By: Karma http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1197237 Karma Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:09:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1197237 How bizarre to grow up looking at a certain mountain skyline...and now it is gone! There is a certain mountain that I have grown up admiring and simply can't imagine it being destroyed for profit. Sad that these communities had to see it. Obama...eh...he will land on the side of big business. No mystery there. How bizarre to grow up looking at a certain mountain skyline…and now it is gone!

There is a certain mountain that I have grown up admiring and simply can’t imagine it being destroyed for profit. Sad that these communities had to see it.

Obama…eh…he will land on the side of big business. No mystery there.

]]> By: goldengrahme http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196833 goldengrahme Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:34:25 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196833 I can only add a bit to this wonderfully presented thread on the history of the energy tycoons who have been raping the Appalachians for generations. MTR is only the latest edition of an unfolding true American tragedy. PBS--the series on Appalachia, its mountain treasures, its strong, self-reliant people, its continuing exploitation by greedy profiteers who have reduced great swaths of once-verdant land to unearthly moonscapes. And driven local economies and communities into ruin. In the late 19th century, huge trees were cut with no thought to reforestration or the result of denuding enormous old-growth forests. Catastrophic flooding on rivers in Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia were the logical aftermath. Once the discovery of vast coal reserves under the mountains was made public, the race was on to harvest that resource. Local farmers were induced to sell mineral rights on property in the hopes they could at least save humble homes from the oncoming coal industry jugernaut. Many found that promise was an illusion. Railroads had been built throughout fragile mountain environments to haul out trees and coal during the height of the robber barons' reign. Where clear-cut forests were left to rot, entire ecosystems changed dramatically. Both animals and humans were left bereft of a natural ability to sustain life. The once viable social systems built around farming and bartoring were laid to waste, in the same way the mountains are being destroyed. Parts of Appalachia may never recover from this final onslaught. Not in our lifetime. We must find alternative sources of energy rather than relying on finite fossil fuels. What is there about that fact we fail to understand? I can only add a bit to this wonderfully presented
thread on the history of the energy tycoons who have
been raping the Appalachians for generations. MTR
is only the latest edition of an unfolding true
American tragedy.

PBS–the series on Appalachia, its mountain
treasures, its strong, self-reliant people, its
continuing exploitation by greedy profiteers who
have reduced great swaths of once-verdant land to unearthly moonscapes. And driven local economies
and communities into ruin.

In the late 19th century, huge trees were cut with no thought to reforestration or the result of denuding enormous old-growth forests. Catastrophic flooding on rivers in Kentucky, Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia were the logical aftermath.

Once the discovery of vast coal reserves under the mountains was made public, the race was on to harvest that resource. Local farmers were induced to sell mineral rights on property in the hopes they could at least save humble homes from the oncoming coal industry jugernaut. Many found that promise
was an illusion.

Railroads had been built throughout fragile mountain environments to haul out trees and coal during the height of the robber barons’ reign. Where clear-cut forests were left to rot, entire ecosystems changed dramatically. Both animals and humans were left bereft of a natural ability to sustain life.

The once viable social systems built around farming and bartoring were laid to waste, in the same way the mountains are being destroyed. Parts of Appalachia may never recover from this final onslaught. Not in our lifetime.

We must find alternative sources of energy rather
than relying on finite fossil fuels. What is there
about that fact we fail to understand?

]]> By: kat in your hat http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196434 kat in your hat Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:49:02 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196434 Thank you, Eastan. I've been looking over the website and thinking about all this. I appreciate it. Thank you, Eastan. I’ve been looking over the website and thinking about all this. I appreciate it.

]]> By: NomNomNom http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196421 NomNomNom Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:29:26 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196421 Bullshit. they're supposed to have to restore a site to something with equal or higher value. MONETARY VALUE. LIKE A F#CKING FLAT PARKING LOT OR A WALMART THAT GENERATES TAX REVENUE but is NOTHING LIKE A MOUNTAIN. And they don't remediate in any meaningful way like you suggest either. Not 5% of the MTR mines have been remediated. They're freaking moonscapes. As for people who live nearest being the strongest supporters: that was certainly true previous, but less so today, as tourism can generate more revenue for individuals than mining and is certainly safer than either underground or mountain top removal mining. MTR has cut the number of mining jobs by more than half because it is so mechanized. Not to mention, a lot of people really don't want to live next to a f$cking moonscape. So they can't dump waste in streams? On his way out the door Bush removed regulations prohibiting dumping directly into streams, and even previously the regulations only limited dumping within 100 yards of a stream: not exactly a large buffer. http://earthfirst.com/a-round-up-of-bush%E2%80%99s-midnight-regulations-on-the-environment/ WV has, temporarily anyway, successfully beaten these new regs: not so for all the other states whose companies practice MTR. http://www.nrdc.org/media/2009/090331b.asp This doesn't mean the mining companies are done with litigation. They want the same half-assed kind of mitigation set up as wetland draining gets now: you know the one with no federal standard as to what constitutes mitigation? Even now, the only restrictions are on water quality, and sometimes contamination of people's land with hazardous materials but no penalty for destruction of environment. "lastly, what difference does it make if (surface) mining is done by taking off the top of a mountain or just digging a hole in a flat piece of ground? underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous." The difference is that when they blow the top off of a mountain they blow everything on the mountain up with it. You know, trees, animals, streams? They don't magically reappear out of the freaking ether when the blasting's done. Even in the paltry instances where "remediation" is performed the reultant soil acidification and destruction to the earth does not facilitate growing anything like the previous species that inhabited the site. Instead of even attempting to actually mitigate some of their incredible destruction, they plant F#CKING LIRIOPE, an invasive foreign grass, and other trash that doesn't belong there and won't support the native ecosystem. The difference in impact is a hell of a lot more than just "visual". My mother is from Logan WV: I have seen the results of first strip mining and now MTR all my life. No one in their right mind would advocate for it. Bullshit.
they’re supposed to have to restore a site to something with equal or higher value. MONETARY VALUE. LIKE A F#CKING FLAT PARKING LOT OR A WALMART THAT GENERATES TAX REVENUE but is NOTHING LIKE A MOUNTAIN. And they don’t remediate in any meaningful way like you suggest either. Not 5% of the MTR mines have been remediated. They’re freaking moonscapes.
As for people who live nearest being the strongest supporters: that was certainly true previous, but less so today, as tourism can generate more revenue for individuals than mining and is certainly safer than either underground or mountain top removal mining. MTR has cut the number of mining jobs by more than half because it is so mechanized. Not to mention, a lot of people really don’t want to live next to a f$cking moonscape.
So they can’t dump waste in streams? On his way out the door Bush removed regulations prohibiting dumping directly into streams, and even previously the regulations only limited dumping within 100 yards of a stream: not exactly a large buffer.
http://earthfirst.com/a-round-up-of-bush%E2%80%99s-midnight-regulations-on-the-environment/
WV has, temporarily anyway, successfully beaten these new regs: not so for all the other states whose companies practice MTR.
http://www.nrdc.org/media/2009/090331b.asp
This doesn’t mean the mining companies are done with litigation. They want the same half-assed kind of mitigation set up as wetland draining gets now: you know the one with no federal standard as to what constitutes mitigation? Even now, the only restrictions are on water quality, and sometimes contamination of people’s land with hazardous materials but no penalty for destruction of environment.

“lastly, what difference does it make if (surface) mining is done by taking off the top of a mountain or just digging a hole in a flat piece of ground? underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous.”

The difference is that when they blow the top off of a mountain they blow everything on the mountain up with it. You know, trees, animals, streams? They don’t magically reappear out of the freaking ether when the blasting’s done. Even in the paltry instances where “remediation” is performed the reultant soil acidification and destruction to the earth does not facilitate growing anything like the previous species that inhabited the site. Instead of even attempting to actually mitigate some of their incredible destruction, they plant F#CKING LIRIOPE, an invasive foreign grass, and other trash that doesn’t belong there and won’t support the native ecosystem. The difference in impact is a hell of a lot more than just “visual”.

My mother is from Logan WV: I have seen the results of first strip mining and now MTR all my life. No one in their right mind would advocate for it.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196416 Elizabeth Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:25:55 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196416 I've lived in the TN Smokies, my family is now on the North Carolina side, and the Appalachians are absolutely an irreplaceable environmental treasure. But as heartbreaking as it may feel, The Magic of The Mountains is still worth seeing, believing in and fighting for. I’ve lived in the TN Smokies, my family is now on the North Carolina side, and the Appalachians are absolutely an irreplaceable environmental treasure. But as heartbreaking as it may feel, The Magic of The Mountains is still worth seeing, believing in and fighting for.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196411 Elizabeth Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:15:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196411 I have a hard time believing especially that Sens Byrd and Rockefeller could not be re-elected at this point without whoring themselves to the industry. Although Rockefeller, to his credit, did try standing up to coal in the beginning -- lost badly and has never looked back. But for two of the most powerful Senators to continue vigorously acquiescing to a practice that is destroying the state, the people, the communities they live in, and that West Virginians reject in overwelming numbers makes absolutely zero sense. I have a hard time believing especially that Sens Byrd and Rockefeller could not be re-elected at this point without whoring themselves to the industry. Although Rockefeller, to his credit, did try standing up to coal in the beginning — lost badly and has never looked back.

But for two of the most powerful Senators to continue vigorously acquiescing to a practice that is destroying the state, the people, the communities they live in, and that West Virginians reject in overwelming numbers makes absolutely zero sense.

]]> By: Benjamin Franklin Berfle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196405 Benjamin Franklin Berfle Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:08:10 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196405 <blockquote>I find he is difficult to trust.</blockquote> It's a bit more than that. I wouldn't trust him with my garbage.

I find he is difficult to trust.

It’s a bit more than that. I wouldn’t trust him with my garbage.

]]> By: FLDemFem http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196391 FLDemFem Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:47:43 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196391 In the area where I lived they usually just got gas wells by accident when drilling for water wells. No extraction needed. It's there, just poke a hole down and suck it out. What you are talking about is extraction, not simply using existing wells. There are capped wells all over WV, and I am sure the people who own them would be delighted to make some money selling the gas to others. In the area where I lived they usually just got gas wells by accident when drilling for water wells. No extraction needed. It’s there, just poke a hole down and suck it out. What you are talking about is extraction, not simply using existing wells. There are capped wells all over WV, and I am sure the people who own them would be delighted to make some money selling the gas to others.

]]> By: Benjamin Franklin Berfle http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196390 Benjamin Franklin Berfle Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:41:30 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196390 <blockquote>underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous.</blockquote> You're right. I've lived in East Tennessee for 14 of the last 21 years and love the Appalachians. I hate what this type of mining does but I do concur with the danger element. It is a conundrum. On the one hand I don't want miners injured but on the other, this type of mining is ugly beyond belief. I have no answers.

underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous.

You’re right. I’ve lived in East Tennessee for 14 of the last 21 years and love the Appalachians. I hate what this type of mining does but I do concur with the danger element. It is a conundrum. On the one hand I don’t want miners injured but on the other, this type of mining is ugly beyond belief. I have no answers.

]]> By: NoBamaNoWay http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196386 NoBamaNoWay Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:33:32 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196386 blah, blah, blah; the leftists' jihad against mining is just another one of their ignorant, misguided, popular fads. as they say in the mining business - if it can't be grown, it has to be mined. anybody got another way to come up with the raw materials that make this world go around? they don't just magically appear out of thin air, you know. mining has come a long way in the last 50 years or so, in terms of mitigating it's environmental impact, and this is where critics should focus their energy - not in some clueless knee-jerk bashing of all mining activities. i have a B.S. in mining engineering and have worked in the industry for a while, and i can tell you that modern environmental controls on mining in the US are very strict. they can't just "dump waste in streams," etc., and all the ground that they disturb (as shown in those pictures) will have to be revegetated and returned to something near its original state, as according to the mine's reclamation plan, which they are all required to have. it has also been my experience that the local people actually living in the vicinity of mines are their strongest supporters; mines provide good jobs and contribute a lot to the communities and countries they exist in. the biggest problems come from old, abandoned mines or situations where a company has gone bankrupt (and now that the SuperFund for clean up is gone, this is probably getting worse). lastly, what difference does it make if (surface) mining is done by taking off the top of a mountain or just digging a hole in a flat piece of ground? underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous. blah, blah, blah; the leftists’ jihad against mining is just another one of their ignorant, misguided, popular fads. as they say in the mining business – if it can’t be grown, it has to be mined. anybody got another way to come up with the raw materials that make this world go around? they don’t just magically appear out of thin air, you know.

mining has come a long way in the last 50 years or so, in terms of mitigating it’s environmental impact, and this is where critics should focus their energy – not in some clueless knee-jerk bashing of all mining activities. i have a B.S. in mining engineering and have worked in the industry for a while, and i can tell you that modern environmental controls on mining in the US are very strict. they can’t just “dump waste in streams,” etc., and all the ground that they disturb (as shown in those pictures) will have to be revegetated and returned to something near its original state, as according to the mine’s reclamation plan, which they are all required to have.

it has also been my experience that the local people actually living in the vicinity of mines are their strongest supporters; mines provide good jobs and contribute a lot to the communities and countries they exist in. the biggest problems come from old, abandoned mines or situations where a company has gone bankrupt (and now that the SuperFund for clean up is gone, this is probably getting worse).

lastly, what difference does it make if (surface) mining is done by taking off the top of a mountain or just digging a hole in a flat piece of ground? underground mining does have less visual impact on the environment, but it is also more expensive, labor intensive, and dangerous.

]]> By: Babs http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196358 Babs Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:40:21 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196358 GE is heavily committed to nuclear energy. With Obama's ties to GE, I just can't help but think that when all the dust clears on the energy issue, our government will be pushing nuclear energy as the way to go. Obama's debt to GE is a huge one. GE is heavily committed to nuclear energy. With Obama’s ties to GE, I just can’t help but think that when all the dust clears on the energy issue, our government will be pushing nuclear energy as the way to go. Obama’s debt to GE is a huge one.

]]> By: Eastan McNeal http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196352 Eastan McNeal Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:26:24 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196352 There is a problem brewing with natural gas extraction. The modern method for getting the most gas out of the shale is to pump water – lots of water into the well and force the gas out. The water that exits is so toxic that giant sludge ponds, bigger than a football field are located beside the wells. The water that does not exit enters the eco system. So if the drinking water wells don’t go dry from the taking of the water they become unusable for over a century by the toxins, including naturally occurring radioactive material from the one mile depth, released during the process. And, still nobody has figured out what to do with the sludge ponds when the gas runs out. My preference is that people who want this energy should dig and drill in their own towns. The Marcellus Shale Formation runs from NY to TN. The biggest concentration is under the city of Pittsburgh. So why not drill there? There is a problem brewing with natural gas extraction. The modern method for getting the most gas out of the shale is to pump water – lots of water into the well and force the gas out. The water that exits is so toxic that giant sludge ponds, bigger than a football field are located beside the wells. The water that does not exit enters the eco system. So if the drinking water wells don’t go dry from the taking of the water they become unusable for over a century by the toxins, including naturally occurring radioactive material from the one mile depth, released during the process. And, still nobody has figured out what to do with the sludge ponds when the gas runs out. My preference is that people who want this energy should dig and drill in their own towns. The Marcellus Shale Formation runs from NY to TN. The biggest concentration is under the city of Pittsburgh. So why not drill there?

]]> By: FLDemFem http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/22617/obama-indentured-servant-to-coal%e2%80%9d/#comment-1196327 FLDemFem Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:20:11 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=22617#comment-1196327 I have some ideas about how to restore the mountains when we boot the coal companies out. The method is also good for energy-saving housing and farm buildings. It's called "ferrocement". It involves crimped wire and cement, basically. Check out these links..some are for architects who work with it, but in some of the pics you can see the method of construction. This is one of my favorites.. http://www.arquitecturaorganica.com/inicio_i.html Green Trust page re ferrocement http://www.green-trust.org/2003/ferrocement/default.htm There are two basic sites, one is .net and one is .com http://www.ferrocement.com/ http://www.ferrocement.net/ There are wonderful ways to use this stuff..and it's sustainable, very low maintenance, and cheap. Check out this site with concrete housing. Most of this can also be done with ferrocement. http://www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/ Scroll down to Tim Sullivan's house, on the right column, for a great tour of a fascinating and beautiful home. Enjoy the tours!! and do consider ferrocement for your next home. It will save you energy costs and maintenance. I have some ideas about how to restore the mountains when we boot the coal companies out. The method is also good for energy-saving housing and farm buildings. It’s called “ferrocement”. It involves crimped wire and cement, basically. Check out these links..some are for architects who work with it, but in some of the pics you can see the method of construction.

This is one of my favorites..
http://www.arquitecturaorganica.com/inicio_i.html

Green Trust page re ferrocement
http://www.green-trust.org/2003/ferrocement/default.htm

There are two basic sites, one is .net and one is .com

http://www.ferrocement.com/

http://www.ferrocement.net/

There are wonderful ways to use this stuff..and it’s sustainable, very low maintenance, and cheap. Check out this site with concrete housing. Most of this can also be done with ferrocement.
http://www.geocities.com/flyingconcrete/

Scroll down to Tim Sullivan’s house, on the right column, for a great tour of a fascinating and beautiful home.

Enjoy the tours!! and do consider ferrocement for your next home. It will save you energy costs and maintenance.

]]>