After reading this article, as well as the memo, my whole belief system regarding torture, & our national security, has been seriously challenged.

Larry was stating that Bush knew of the impending attacks and did nothing.

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Is this not a factually true statement? I was not wishing to miss read your statement and sorry if I did, I was being rather Dry.

The fact is that the PDB, Richard Clarke requesting a principles meeting(“hair on fire”), Tenant and company stating that “the lights were blinking red”, the fact that Bush had ordered Rumsfield to start the iraq Planning prior to 911( Treasury Sec. O’Neil) with Iraq and Condi Rice running interference for this operation while not taking these cables from Drumheller and several other station chiefs seriously, the two FBI agents , one in Minnesota and one in Arizona, and the southern district of New Yorks own investigation (O’Neill who gave his life in this pursuit), the San Diego and Los Angles FBI field offices all working it.

This was not hind sight. This information was correlated at the highest level and was NOT hindsight. Those bozo’s KNEW and not only did nothing, they used it for an excuse for war.

More was classified than was public.

The bottom line was and is Bush et al were told and did nothing. Well, I will admit that is not completely true…Condi bought shoes, Bush was chopping wood on the ranch and Cheney was getting comfortable in an undisclosed location.

I get that this great country is being sapped of its moral fiber, its wealth in blood and treasure, the well being and health of it’s citizens, the future of her children. The goodwill of the people and their trust betrayed

That is national suicide I hear you speak of.

I can feel it in my bones…I know you do to…failure is not an option in todays world especially since it has been demonstrated we do not learn from our mistakes. I do not apologize to anyone when it comes to this country as BO shamefully does.

I think what I take away from Mr. Johnson and the VIPS memo is they are VERY concerned time is running out on this administrations ability to function effectively. They are seriously worried that our nations security is being put at risk by the same indifference to the Constitution that Bush had.

That, in the final analysis, for me the crux of the biscuit.

So far as I’m concerned 9/11 threw down the glove. I don’t recall any of these other dictators responding to a major attack on their country to excuse torture. And no. I don’t want our government to use torture but I see how everyone including the Dems have been complicit.

I just ran my fuggin’ kayak into a rock…

Villains, no…

Icons of legendary stature, yes!

If memory serves… The good citizens of Baghdad were having a little problem and one of our erstwhile troopers gave an assist by hooking the chain to his “Humvee”…and pullin’ it down…?

“We were being manipulated.”

The hell you say…?

If memory serves… The good citizens of Baghdad were having a little problem and one of our erstwhile troopers gave an assist by hooking the chain to his “Hummer”…?

“We were being manipulated.”

The hell you say…?

Dubya ok’d waterboarding and sleep deprivation

Janet Reno used sleep deprivation of bright lights and loud music on those religious zealots in Waco. Up until the time she called the tanks in. If we want to be revisionists and all.

Damn;that might put a little “hitch in their get along” when it comes to foreign travel in their golden years…!

“My point is that the US and the CIA have been doing some pretty fucked up shit for decades long before Bush and the “torture” memos. “

One could argue that although we do not always reflect the promise of our ideals, self-preservation should cause us to strive for a government of laws and not men which does reflect the credo of the founders. One in which, for instance, the machinery of the state cannot be hijacked by the frenzied few to promote war crimes, especially such patently ineffective ones. This is where the irony leeches into the pathos.

I’ll leave that to Boogy’s self-righteous do-gooders and Baltasar Garzón to work out the details. One only has to look for the Judges Trial of 1947 for inspiration: 52 years in the joint and four life terms.

Leaving the jejune and the apologetica of reactionaries aside, am struck by the banality of the evil Boogy voted for. All those concerned were, if not chickenhawks, at the very least wanabes and posers that couldn’t get laid on a hot night in Temple Bar. If there are no more heroes can we at least be granted villains of legendary stature?

I was doing nothing of the kind.
I blame the people who misled this country into the war the most, but I also blame the ignorant tools who were so easily manipulated and could not wait for an investigation and some freaking facts.