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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Separate But Equal&#8221;?</title>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201881</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201881</guid>
		<description>In an effort to be completely accurate I have to correct a statement I made in my post above. 

I wrote: &quot;I’ve seen far too much tragedy within the gay community to have my right as a taxpaying U.S. Citizen put on a shelf by the theories of someone’s 1980’s College Professor, especially considering that even as they were studying theory, I had already been living the life and taking the beating that came with it for a good 20 years.&quot; 


That should have been a good &quot;10+ years&quot;, My mental math skills are abysmal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In an effort to be completely accurate I have to correct a statement I made in my post above. </p>
<p>I wrote: &#8220;I’ve seen far too much tragedy within the gay community to have my right as a taxpaying U.S. Citizen put on a shelf by the theories of someone’s 1980’s College Professor, especially considering that even as they were studying theory, I had already been living the life and taking the beating that came with it for a good 20 years.&#8221; </p>
<p>That should have been a good &#8220;10+ years&#8221;, My mental math skills are abysmal.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201868</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201868</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the voice of reason Concerned Citizen. I laid out my life in nutshell in an earlier post so that any gay person who would suggest offense at the word &quot;queer&quot; when spoken by another gay person is wasting their anger on the wrong person. 

I&#039;ve seen far too much tragedy within the gay community to have my right as a taxpaying U.S. Citizen put on a shelf by the theories of someone&#039;s 1980&#039;s College Professor, especially considering that even as they were studying theory, I had already been living the life and taking the beating that came with it for a good 20 years. 

In my 60&#039;s now I have heard all the reasons, from gays and straights, why I don&#039;t need gay marriage. My answer to gays who hold this opinion (all 80 of you) is &quot;do what you will where marriage is concerned, but get out of the way of those of us who want it&quot;. To straight people who pontificate on their biblically motivated reasons for denying the LGBTQ community the civil contract of marriage, I say, &quot;Better hide, because It&#039;s gonna happen&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the voice of reason Concerned Citizen. I laid out my life in nutshell in an earlier post so that any gay person who would suggest offense at the word &#8220;queer&#8221; when spoken by another gay person is wasting their anger on the wrong person. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen far too much tragedy within the gay community to have my right as a taxpaying U.S. Citizen put on a shelf by the theories of someone&#8217;s 1980&#8242;s College Professor, especially considering that even as they were studying theory, I had already been living the life and taking the beating that came with it for a good 20 years. </p>
<p>In my 60&#8242;s now I have heard all the reasons, from gays and straights, why I don&#8217;t need gay marriage. My answer to gays who hold this opinion (all 80 of you) is &#8220;do what you will where marriage is concerned, but get out of the way of those of us who want it&#8221;. To straight people who pontificate on their biblically motivated reasons for denying the LGBTQ community the civil contract of marriage, I say, &#8220;Better hide, because It&#8217;s gonna happen&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201861</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201861</guid>
		<description>Though we grow up in the same culture, so not sure what you mean abt gay relationships not aving this history.

Again, the issue for me is access to the same benefits.  For instance, VA passed a law, with the support of Obama&#039;s choice to be DNC Chair, Tim Kaine, that same sex people unrelated by blood could not leave each other their property.  So you could be partners with someone for years, and not inherit a thing.  

Plus all the fed benefits...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though we grow up in the same culture, so not sure what you mean abt gay relationships not aving this history.</p>
<p>Again, the issue for me is access to the same benefits.  For instance, VA passed a law, with the support of Obama&#8217;s choice to be DNC Chair, Tim Kaine, that same sex people unrelated by blood could not leave each other their property.  So you could be partners with someone for years, and not inherit a thing.  </p>
<p>Plus all the fed benefits&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201859</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201859</guid>
		<description>CarolynKB, thank you for this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CarolynKB, thank you for this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NoBamaNoWay</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201841</link>
		<dc:creator>NoBamaNoWay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 09:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201841</guid>
		<description>it can be, and one must definitely take into consideration the speaker and context, but many GLBTs have &quot;reclaimed&quot; the word and use it to describe themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it can be, and one must definitely take into consideration the speaker and context, but many GLBTs have &#8220;reclaimed&#8221; the word and use it to describe themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: NoBamaNoWay</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201840</link>
		<dc:creator>NoBamaNoWay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 09:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201840</guid>
		<description>one should also remember that the bible defines marriage as a polygamous institution, but you don&#039;t hear too many &quot;christians&quot; calling for returning to that tradition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one should also remember that the bible defines marriage as a polygamous institution, but you don&#8217;t hear too many &#8220;christians&#8221; calling for returning to that tradition.</p>
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		<title>By: NoBamaNoWay</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201837</link>
		<dc:creator>NoBamaNoWay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 09:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201837</guid>
		<description>no religious entity will be forced to do anything.  when has the law ever dictated the *private* practices of churches?  the reality is that religious groups who wish to do so may currently &quot;marry&quot; same-sex couples, while those who do not want to do not have to, and that will not change.  the only thing that would change is that if same-sex marriage was legalized the religious same-sex marriages would also be legally binding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no religious entity will be forced to do anything.  when has the law ever dictated the *private* practices of churches?  the reality is that religious groups who wish to do so may currently &#8220;marry&#8221; same-sex couples, while those who do not want to do not have to, and that will not change.  the only thing that would change is that if same-sex marriage was legalized the religious same-sex marriages would also be legally binding.</p>
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		<title>By: benny</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201830</link>
		<dc:creator>benny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 08:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201830</guid>
		<description>yep, expected behavior. lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep, expected behavior. lol.</p>
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		<title>By: NomNomNom</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201768</link>
		<dc:creator>NomNomNom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 04:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201768</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m more of a green libertarian hillbilly feminist, lol. Times do change, even when stereotypes do not.

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Gay relationships do not come from this same background. Gay relationships do not have this specific history behind them.
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge.&quot; &lt;/em&gt;

I don&#039;t deny your statement at all, I just find it to be irrelevant. The institution of marriage has been and continues to be used to enslave women and girls the world over.
I&#039;d prefer to see an end to it for that reason.  

I have already said that if there is to be marriage it&#039;s my opinion that it should be equal for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m more of a green libertarian hillbilly feminist, lol. Times do change, even when stereotypes do not.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Gay relationships do not come from this same background. Gay relationships do not have this specific history behind them.<br />
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge.&#8221; </em></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t deny your statement at all, I just find it to be irrelevant. The institution of marriage has been and continues to be used to enslave women and girls the world over.<br />
I&#8217;d prefer to see an end to it for that reason.  </p>
<p>I have already said that if there is to be marriage it&#8217;s my opinion that it should be equal for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201754</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201754</guid>
		<description>Wha, Wha, Whaaaaaa! Cry me a river. Poor man, attacked by the lesbian for pushing the christian dogma at us, then pretending that it wasn&#039;t his personal conviction. I don&#039;t know whether he&#039;s a coward, a liar or both. A cowardly liar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wha, Wha, Whaaaaaa! Cry me a river. Poor man, attacked by the lesbian for pushing the christian dogma at us, then pretending that it wasn&#8217;t his personal conviction. I don&#8217;t know whether he&#8217;s a coward, a liar or both. A cowardly liar.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201752</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201752</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t figure you&#039;d answer, because you have no answer. It&#039;s just pure old homophobia that drives your objection.

And I didn&#039;t vote for Obama. I don&#039;t see him as a friend of the LBGTQ community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t figure you&#8217;d answer, because you have no answer. It&#8217;s just pure old homophobia that drives your objection.</p>
<p>And I didn&#8217;t vote for Obama. I don&#8217;t see him as a friend of the LBGTQ community.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201749</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201749</guid>
		<description>I know it when I see it, thanks for giving me a peek.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it when I see it, thanks for giving me a peek.</p>
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		<title>By: CarolynKB</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201746</link>
		<dc:creator>CarolynKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 03:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201746</guid>
		<description>Hi Chelsea:

I&#039;ve spent over 35 years out of the closet and  I&#039;ve been called queer many, many, times, along the way, along with dyke and Lez, by the homophobes. I also live in the south and we have no options for our relationships and if we did my partner and I would choose marriage because we&#039;re both old enough to remember how separate but equal ends up, unequal and very marginalized. 

Now I have NO desire for a veil or tux or any of those things. I have no desire for a religious wedding. I want access to the same EXACT civil marriage contract that heterosexuals have and I will continue to work to get it. If you read Amy&#039;s article it should be apparent exactly why separate but equal has pitfalls that most people can&#039;t even begin to imagine. I have an attorney friend who&#039;s explained to me on a number of occasions that she can&#039;t fashion enough legal contracts to give my partner and I the same rights in the law that straight people have with marriage. 

As for the word queer. I don&#039;t know what circles you move in, but the circle I move in use it ofter. I have many friends and we call ourselves teh girl queers, especially when we&#039;re reminiscing. I don&#039;t see that interaction between friends as demeaning to me or my relationship. I have 3 friends who were involved in Stonewall, one has passed on. I have 7 friends who died of Aids (including 2 cousins) when the US government sat on the sidelines twiddling it&#039;s thumbs because our pols considered it to be a queer only disease that could/would never reach the straight population. I&#039;ve spent half of my life with my sexual orientation being illegal in my state of residence. I&#039;ve had friends jailed for kissing their partner in public. I lost a friend to a hate-crime attack in the parking lot of gay night spot. I&#039;ve had many friends lose jobs, housing, etc. because they are gay. I&#039;ve known several women who were good mothers who lost custody of their children. I even had a close friend lose her only child to her ex-husband who was an alcoholic because she refused to lie about her sexual orientation under oath. In all of my lifetime, which is considerable, gay people have always used the word queer to express their anger at the straight community that discriminates against them or in casual conversation with friends. I&#039;ve never had another gay person take offense with the word as you&#039;ve done. 

And FYI The most recent expression of our community is LGBTQ which means:
lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer or questioning. Sounds about right to me!!!

So no, marriage for me is not about a veil, it&#039;s about a lifetime of over 6 decades living OUT in a world who prefers me in and nothing short of marriage will bring me to full and equal parity in the law. Apparenlty Amy and her Attorney friend agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chelsea:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spent over 35 years out of the closet and  I&#8217;ve been called queer many, many, times, along the way, along with dyke and Lez, by the homophobes. I also live in the south and we have no options for our relationships and if we did my partner and I would choose marriage because we&#8217;re both old enough to remember how separate but equal ends up, unequal and very marginalized. </p>
<p>Now I have NO desire for a veil or tux or any of those things. I have no desire for a religious wedding. I want access to the same EXACT civil marriage contract that heterosexuals have and I will continue to work to get it. If you read Amy&#8217;s article it should be apparent exactly why separate but equal has pitfalls that most people can&#8217;t even begin to imagine. I have an attorney friend who&#8217;s explained to me on a number of occasions that she can&#8217;t fashion enough legal contracts to give my partner and I the same rights in the law that straight people have with marriage. </p>
<p>As for the word queer. I don&#8217;t know what circles you move in, but the circle I move in use it ofter. I have many friends and we call ourselves teh girl queers, especially when we&#8217;re reminiscing. I don&#8217;t see that interaction between friends as demeaning to me or my relationship. I have 3 friends who were involved in Stonewall, one has passed on. I have 7 friends who died of Aids (including 2 cousins) when the US government sat on the sidelines twiddling it&#8217;s thumbs because our pols considered it to be a queer only disease that could/would never reach the straight population. I&#8217;ve spent half of my life with my sexual orientation being illegal in my state of residence. I&#8217;ve had friends jailed for kissing their partner in public. I lost a friend to a hate-crime attack in the parking lot of gay night spot. I&#8217;ve had many friends lose jobs, housing, etc. because they are gay. I&#8217;ve known several women who were good mothers who lost custody of their children. I even had a close friend lose her only child to her ex-husband who was an alcoholic because she refused to lie about her sexual orientation under oath. In all of my lifetime, which is considerable, gay people have always used the word queer to express their anger at the straight community that discriminates against them or in casual conversation with friends. I&#8217;ve never had another gay person take offense with the word as you&#8217;ve done. </p>
<p>And FYI The most recent expression of our community is LGBTQ which means:<br />
lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer or questioning. Sounds about right to me!!!</p>
<p>So no, marriage for me is not about a veil, it&#8217;s about a lifetime of over 6 decades living OUT in a world who prefers me in and nothing short of marriage will bring me to full and equal parity in the law. Apparenlty Amy and her Attorney friend agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Citizen</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201727</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 02:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201727</guid>
		<description>OK. I&#039;ve slogged thru all the comments now:
Two more clarifications.  To be a ilttle condescending, most of the comments seem to talk about social colloquialisms around the words union and marriage.  That&#039;s as cute as a speckled pig.  The real laws that have real effect, tho, have real distinctions.  For example, here I go again, with all the NH reaserch for example, for example.  1. The propsoed NH marriage law had to deal with it&#039;s potenitally disadvantageious conflicts with two main federal laws... not to mention the so-called Defense of Marraige Law.  Check this out&quot; the railroad retirement laws and the IRS cluster.  So what?  SO the NH legistative craftsmen[sic] just said, BTW, nothing here is meant to interfere w/dat.  Legislatively, that&#039;d work.  2.  Esp.for Chelsea Patriot, Tom Cat, and even well-meaning Northwest Rain, as one of my favorite movie characters said to her movie stepmom, How&#039;d you get to be so old without knowni&#039; nothin&#039;?  There are huge differences between &quot;voluntary&quot; domestic partnerships and marriages.  I&#039;d rather have many root canals than marry, but ............. anyway, the whole legal discussion is about the civil institution.  Got ZERO to do with someone&#039;s memory of a church.
Too serious?  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK. I&#8217;ve slogged thru all the comments now:<br />
Two more clarifications.  To be a ilttle condescending, most of the comments seem to talk about social colloquialisms around the words union and marriage.  That&#8217;s as cute as a speckled pig.  The real laws that have real effect, tho, have real distinctions.  For example, here I go again, with all the NH reaserch for example, for example.  1. The propsoed NH marriage law had to deal with it&#8217;s potenitally disadvantageious conflicts with two main federal laws&#8230; not to mention the so-called Defense of Marraige Law.  Check this out&#8221; the railroad retirement laws and the IRS cluster.  So what?  SO the NH legistative craftsmen[sic] just said, BTW, nothing here is meant to interfere w/dat.  Legislatively, that&#8217;d work.  2.  Esp.for Chelsea Patriot, Tom Cat, and even well-meaning Northwest Rain, as one of my favorite movie characters said to her movie stepmom, How&#8217;d you get to be so old without knowni&#8217; nothin&#8217;?  There are huge differences between &#8220;voluntary&#8221; domestic partnerships and marriages.  I&#8217;d rather have many root canals than marry, but &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. anyway, the whole legal discussion is about the civil institution.  Got ZERO to do with someone&#8217;s memory of a church.<br />
Too serious?  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned Citizen</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/23645/separate-but-equal/#comment-1201716</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 02:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=23645#comment-1201716</guid>
		<description>Civil and religious distinction people heads up.  The NH bill makes the distinction explicitly: no religious body must perform any ceremony it doesnt condone.  This is also true in all -- so far -- states where the state law is evolving forward.  Duh -- whut -- say whut?  Have any of you people even looked at the laws you&#039;re talking at?  In fact, WITHIN many religious &quot;traditions&quot; there&#039;s a lot of hoo-hah about rules already?  Any Catholics of different genders tried to get &quot;married&quot; lately?

So people&#039;s hearts are in the right places?  Let&#039;s roll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civil and religious distinction people heads up.  The NH bill makes the distinction explicitly: no religious body must perform any ceremony it doesnt condone.  This is also true in all &#8212; so far &#8212; states where the state law is evolving forward.  Duh &#8212; whut &#8212; say whut?  Have any of you people even looked at the laws you&#8217;re talking at?  In fact, WITHIN many religious &#8220;traditions&#8221; there&#8217;s a lot of hoo-hah about rules already?  Any Catholics of different genders tried to get &#8220;married&#8221; lately?</p>
<p>So people&#8217;s hearts are in the right places?  Let&#8217;s roll.</p>
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