new charges against fraudulent acorn ~open thread updated

I read about this earlier today. Maybe there is hope that O’s connection to the ACORN fraud during the primary will also come out for more than the Hillary voters to see.

Acorn has sent representatives around the country with hand held GPSs, “marking” doors on private residents. They are saying it has to do with the census but that isn’t to be done until 2010. It sounds suspicious. They say their goal is to register every single resident in the country. They also snoop around properties to determine if more than one family live there, such as apartments,etc. You can read about this at LogisticsMonster.com. WHY is the government marking every single house in America?! Numerous persons have commented on blogs that they have had these visitors.

The whole ACORN thing is a GOP talking point. The idea that “Mickey Mouse” actually gets to VOTE in an election is ludicrous. The entire argument against ACORN is ludicrous if you really look at it. Basically they are saying that ACORN purposefully registered fake people who would never be able to vote (being that they are not real)… what would be the point of even doing that? The fact is that ACORN had some lazy employees who wanted to be paid for not doing their work (nothing unusual about that) and who made up fake names. The fact is ACORN was the victim of fraud (by their employees.)

It’s actually the ACORN story itself that’s a fraud. It’s a tactic the GOP uses to cover up their own very real instances of voter disenfranchisement.

W00T! Nevada SOS! Hubba Hubba!

This sweetheart should be PUMA!

bad acorn, bad nut!

My front door happens to be inside a fence. Those seedy ACORN types would be wise not to try marking my door or they may find a 100 lb. akita-sharpei-chow mix permanently attached to them at the calf.

Even what this guy is saying is basically: The employees had reason to make fake registrations to keep their jobs.

OK… what does that have to do with vote fraud? Fake registrations do *NOT* vote.

And I really don’t get why people are against ACORN recruiting more people to vote unless you are against every American voting? Why would anyone be against that unless they were against Democracy?

A-Nona-Mouse–
You need to read up on Acorn. You are totally wrong! Or maybe you are WITH Acorn. Don’t EVEN try to say Acorn is a victim here!

Why not? Can you dispute what I just said? Is there proof of what ACORN does leading to even ONE fake vote? Isn’t that what matters? I don’t understand what the big deal is about fake registrations that don’t lead to real votes. Why does that matter?

Isn’t it much more disturbing when Republicans knock REAL voters off the voter registration lists? And they’ve been caught doing that time and time again.

See one thing leads to no real change in the vote totals because no fake registrations lead to real votes, the other thing leads to real voters not being able to take part in Democracy.

Sadly I see one thing being brought up all the time in the news (particularly on the right wing news of course) and the other is almost never brought up even though it’s a real issue.

I like to think that we all want our elections to be fair. That means every American has the right to vote. That’s why I get so upset about voter disenfranchisement.

I don’t understand why people get so upset about fake registrations when it doesn’t lead to any real vote fraud? Can you explain that to me?

The fact is that ACORN had some lazy employees who wanted to be paid for not doing their work (nothing unusual about that) and who made up fake names. The fact is ACORN was the victim of fraud (by their employees.)

Too bad. If what you say is truthful, and I doubt that it is anything more than your obamabot spin, it still does not absolve them of responsibility for the actions of those working for them. That seedy ACORN group can give people authority to act on their behalf but they retain their responsibility, nevertheless.

The ACORN story is not fraudulent so you should probably discuss that pesky fact with those voices in your head that are telling you this crap. Then seek help.

Do you all think we are so dumb as to think that a person claiming Mickey Mouse would be allowed to vote? The point is that ACORN overwhelms the system with these fraudulent signatures. ACORN did not have a fraud committed against them by their employees. As an agency, especially one receiving tax supported dollars, it is the duty of ACORN to make sure its employees follow rules and regulations–that are legal. That is the point made in the videos.

But my belief is that the people in charge of ACORN did not care how these supposed signatures were obtained. They wanted to undermine the entire voter registration process because they don’t like to follow laws and rules. The problems for ACORN is that most county clerks are hard-working public servants who WILL stay up at night trying to undo the mess ACORN has created for them in order to make sure the rules are followed. ACORN counts on those clerks who are as partisan as they are to allow fraudulent registrations and voting to occur.

I am not in any way a member of the GOP by the way. I am also no longer a member of the Democratic Party–largely because of its use of these fraudulent tactics to “select” a candidate.

That being said: I do understand why states would not want fake registrations in their system. It would create clutter and a bit of a bureaucratic nightmare. So they have every reason to not want fake registrations sent in. But it really has nothing to do with vote fraud. If you’ll notice this man never says anything about real vote fraud. That’s what’s so disturbing about the way this is reported. People jump from one fact (fake registrations) to something else (vote fraud) when the two things are not at all related. There’s no proof that a fake registration has ever lead to a fake vote. It just doesn’t make any sense. How would someone be able to vote on a fake registration when that person doesn’t exist? Please tell me you see that that doesn’t make sense.

I’m a big believer in logical thinking and too often I see people jumping to conclusions and not actually thinking things through logically.

That’s what the Republicans have done with this ACORN “issue” – they have dangled it in front of people knowing that people will jump to a false conclusion (that it has anything to do with vote fraud) because that’s what folks do – they commonly jump to conclusions without thinking logically. That’s what they are counting on.

Fake registrations do *NOT* vote.

Falsifying registrations is against the law, dimwit.

OK. I agree that the ACORN workers did something wrong. But what does that have to do with vote fraud?

Speeding is against the law too and it doesn’t have anything to do with vote fraud.

I think it’s highly uncalled for that you call me a “dimwit” when you don’t make any logical point.

I am making a logical point here that no one can deny: This has nothing to do with vote fraud.

perhaps because it is funded by tax payers? it claims to be non-partisan, but it isn’t? because they used tax payer dollars to help get their candidate of choice elected?

those are a few ideas off the top of my head.

and people did vote more than once. you register under a fake name, and you can vote. it happened. a lot.

You obviously did not participate in the primaries, so you did not see the way ACORN tactics were used agains Hillary.

You obviously did not participate in the primaries, so you did not see the way ACORN tactics were used against Hillary.

So you’re saying that padding registrations is OK whereas removing registrations is not? Your hypocrisy is breathtaking. You’re proposing that ACORN should be allowed to break the law because you have an opinion for which there is no objective evidence that someone else broke the law.

Not only are you illogical, you’re also a moron.

STOP THE NAME CALLING.

I am waiting for Texas to file charges against them for the caucus fraud they committed in Texas. They broke most of the caucus rules, bussed in people from out of the district, and perhaps out of state, to attend the caucuses. They also intimidated people coming to the polls to caucus, telling them that “this is an Obama precinct..”, preventing access to people by blocking the entryway and only letting in Obama supporters. It was one of the most blatant thefts of an election that this country has ever seen. When is Texas going to indict?

“obamabot” ??? I hate Obama. He’s a corporate tool just like almost all of the rest of the mainstream politicians. I’m more of a Dennis Kucinich type liberal.

I just call a spade a spade and it’s obvious to me that the Republicans are using this “ACORN” issue to confuse people. They want folks to be concerned about this thing that doesn’t actually lead to any fake votes while they are actually doing everything they can to stop *real people* from voting. Don’t you see how sickening that is?

COUNT ON THIS:

ACORN Eligible For $8.5 Billion

After he reviewed the Obama stimulus bill and the proposed fiscal 2010 budget for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), Matthew Vadum told the Washington Examiner that ACORN and other left-wing advocacy groups could have a shot at pocketing up to $8.5 billion this year.

Here’s how he arrived at the $8.5 billion figure.

The $800 billion-plus stimulus bill, which is now formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 or Public Law 111-5, originally set aside $5.2 billion that could flow directly or indirectly into the coffers of ACORN and its liberal friends. It appears the $5.2 billion was chopped down to $3 billion in the version of the bill that Obama signed into law on February 17. The $3 billion consists of $2 billion in funds set aside for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes and$1 billion in Community Development Block Grants (CDBG).

CDBG is good old-fashioned graft. Local politicians of both parties love CDBG because it is flexible. The program gives them wide latitude when spending grant money and allows local leaders to use federal dollars on local projects that they wouldn’t dream of spending their own local tax dollars on. ACORN loves CDBG because it is adept at lobbying for CDBG funds.

In addition to the $3 billion available in the stimulus package, the proposed $47.5 billion HUD budget for the fiscal year that begins October 1 provides $1 billion for an affordable housing trust fund and $4.5 billion in CDBG funds that could be funneled to ACORN indirectly.

Of course ACORN won’t get it all, and given its history of electoral fraud and racketeering, it shouldn’t get a penny of federal money.

According to a Washington Examiner article, ACORN has taken in $53.6 million in federal funding since 1994.

Amazingly, ACORN spokesman Scott Levenson told reporter Kevin Mooney that his group has “received no significant federal funding.”

This is the same ACORN that is continually in trouble for voter fraud. This is the same ACORN that has pushed the subprime mortgage crisis that has destabilized our economy. This is the same ACORN that, in the words of Barack Obama, “is going to shape our national agenda.”

http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm

God, you are terminally obtuse, dimwit.

Falsifying registration documents is against the law. Which part of that sentence is giving you such trouble? Let me type really slowly so you can understand:

A C O R N b r o k e t h e l a w .

Diana

No. I don’t think anyone is so dumb to really think that “Mickey Mouse can vote” not if they really stop and think about it anyway. But that’s the whole point. That’s all that ACORN is doing here, so why are people so upset about something that has no effect on the vote totals? It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

I absolutely agree that ACORN should do a better job of not allowing fake registrations and I do not agree with they the way they give their workers quotas – that probably leads to more fake registrations. They should figure out some way of getting rid of those fake registrations before they are turned in (although I have read that it’s against the law for them to destroy voter registrations which is why they do not do that.)

But what I don’t agree with is this idea that ACORN was purposely sending in fake registrations to “overwhelm the system” or because they “don’t like to follow laws and rules” – that simply does not make any sense to me. What goal would that accomplish?

Tell that to the Prosecutors who have prosecuted ACORN members and convicted them, anonymouse. There are about 12 states investigating ACORN. I wonder why you think convictions is just a “GOP talking point,” unless perhaps what you’re trying to say is that Democrats’ talking point is: “Laws? We don’t need no stinkin’ laws.”

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

You can read the rest here:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/2/

“They commonly jump to conclusions without thinking logically”
Is this person for real?
Did the FBI jump to conclusions when they received warrants signed by judges to search 13 of ARORN’s offices before November 4th?
Oh,wait, ACORN is above the law just like their Messiah.
The rule of law is being obliterated by BO and his gang, it’s going the way of journalism–dead.

There is plenty of vote fraud connected with Acorn. That is how this last election was “won”. If you want to research it I suggest you go to Dr. Lynette Long’s web site. She has done plenty of research on it.

Oh I hope they come to my house, I really do. I have four dogs and a 4 year old stallion who grazes in the driveway. His brother and buddy is in the field next to the driveway. They would never make it to the house..LOL And the house is surrounded by pastures, with horses in them. And if they do make it to the door, there is a FL law signed by Jeb Bush that I can shoot anyone who makes me feel threatened. I would love to test it out on an Acorn creep.

I understand that their employees broke the law (there’s a jump to saying the organization itself broke the law.) What I don’t understand is why I should care about something that is clearly just a bureaucratic problem? Something that has absolutely no effect on the election results? Why should I (or anyone else) care about that?

There’s no proof that a fake registration has ever lead to a fake vote.

There doesn’t have to be, dimbulb. The crime is in the false registrations, which very well could have been used and you have no proof to the contrary. It makes no difference whether there is proof of actual voting by fraudulently registered voters or not because the crime was in the registering of them.

If you were any thicker, they could use use as an inexpensive reactor shield.

Did anyone see Glenn Beck’s show tonight? He had an acorn rep on there. They were getting into it on air during his segment. Apparently during the break, the acorn rep asked Beck “Why are you afraid of black people?” They just don’t get it.

That is a decent point (that it is funded by tax payers.) But I would dispute the idea that it’s an inherently partisan concept to register as many American people as possible to vote. Obviously in practice this helps the Democrats more than the Republicans but I don’t think that’s a problem with registering more poor people to vote. I think that’s a problem with Republican policies being so lopsided in favor of the rich (and strongly against the poor.)

Then he tried to hit on a producer after Glenn told him to get out.

I do not agree with they the way they give their workers quotas -

That’s nice of you. Of course, you may not agree with it, but in some states, like Nevada, it’s ILLEGAL to do that. That is why they are being charged. Because they broke the law. And the DA is a Democrat, which you would know if you had watched the video.

I’m saying that something which leads to no fake votes isn’t that big of a deal. Yes. I’m saying that getting rid of real voter registrations (ie: REAL PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO VOTE) is a big a deal. Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying. You see one thing leads to no change in the election results and is *NOT* vote fraud. And the other thing leads to real people who would otherwise be able to vote to not be able to vote. The distinction is clear.

Yes, there was fraud and there is a background..history of voter fraud with Acorn. Don’t you think every vote should be legitimate? Why do you think this is a right wing thing? Go back on our threads and there are many discussion where we, previous Democrats were pissed over Acorns abuses during the 2008 election; no one wanted to hear it… then we were racists, never mind most of us were Democrats for decades.

An example for you.

From Source: http://kansascity.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/identitytheft010507.htm

JANUARY 5, 2007
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ACORN EMPLOYEE INDICTED FOR ELECTION FRAUD, IDENTITY THEFT
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Bradley J. Schlozman, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that a Kansas City, Mo., woman hired by ACORN to work in a voter registration drive was indicted by a federal grand jury today for election fraud and identity theft.
Carmen R. Davis, also known as Latisha Reed, 37, of Kansas City, was charged in a four-count indictment returned by a federal grand jury in Kansas City.
Davis was hired by ACORN, a not-for-profit organization, to work with Project Vote, also a not-for-profit organization that works with ACORN to register voters for federal and local elections. ACORN and Project Vote recruit and assign workers to visit low-income and minority neighborhoods in Jackson County, Mo., and elsewhere to obtain voter registrations. The workers are trained and instructed regarding how to obtain voter registrations and the preparation of voter registration applications.
According to today’s indictment, Davis used another person’s Social Security number when she was employed as a voter registration recruiter for ACORN in August and September 2006. Davis allegedly caused three false voter registration applications – all in the name of the same person, but with different addresses – to be filed with the Kansas City Board of Election Commissioners.

Fraud Defined:

A false representation of a matter of fact—whether by words or by conduct, by false or misleading allegations, or by concealment of what should have been disclosed—that deceives and is intended to deceive another so that the individual will act upon it to her or his legal injury.
Fraud is commonly understood as dishonesty calculated for advantage. A person who is dishonest may be called a fraud. In the U.S. legal system, fraud is a specific offense with certain features.
Federal and state criminal statutes provide for the punishment of persons convicted of fraudulent activity. Interstate fraud and fraud on the federal government are singled out for federal prosecution
The Federal Sentencing Guidelines recommend consideration of the intended victims of fraud in the sentencing of fraud defendants. The guidelines urge an upward departure from standard sentences if the intended victims are especially vulnerable. For example, if a defendant markets an ineffective cancer cure, that scheme, if found to be fraudulent, would warrant more punishment than a scheme that targets persons generally, and coincidentally happens to injure a vulnerable person. Federal courts may require persons convicted of fraud to give notice and an explanation of the conviction to the victims of the fraud (18 U.S.C.A. § 3555).

Lord, I hope so. But the media would have to report it. Not much hope there.

Of course I did. But I wasn’t for either Obama or Hillary. I was for Dennis Kucinich. And I know exactly the kind of forces that go for the corporate candidates and go against those that are really for the people.

-But what I don’t agree with is this idea that ACORN was purposely sending in fake registrations to “overwhelm the system” or because they “don’t like to follow laws and rules” – that simply does not make any sense to me. What goal would that accomplish?-

They subcontracted, they are responsible for a shyte job done by their subcontractors and by their own oversight of the subcontractors.

Fake registrations are voter fraud, fool. It’s against the law, numerous ACORN members have been convicted in numerous states of voter fraud. You are clearly clueless about the organization, and the arguments regarding their criminal activity across the country. They are being investigated in 12 states. Prosecutors are convicting ACORN members of voter fraud.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/2/

STOP THE NAME CALLING. LET’S DISCUSS WITHOUT INSULTS PLEASE.

Again, if you had watched the video, you would have heard the DA say that they found directives in emails and other handouts stating that if the employees did not meet the daily quota they would lose their jobs. That means that the organization broke the law. See, that’s illegal in Nevada, the quota thing. Get it, numbnuts??

(Name-calling deleted by Admin)

Something that has absolutely no effect on the election results? Why should I (or anyone else) care about that?

Using your silly-ass logic, if someone is driving stoned and doesn’t get caught but luckily has no effect on anyone else, that is just fine and dandy with you. Your ethical standards are non-existent, just as with every other obamabot.

So the next time the ring-wing nuts, play loose with the rules, I’m sure you’ll be four-square behind them, too. Am I correct?

LOL!!

-Or maybe you are WITH Acorn-

the mouse does protest too much, does it.

The personal insults are not necessary. I’m trying to discuss something on it’s own merits so I don’t understand why you must insult me personally.

Furthermore I do not believe you are making a good case. My case is that YES registering fake voters is wrong but NO it is not true election fraud because obviously a fake voter (ie an imaginary person) cannot vote. Anyone who has gone through the voting process would know that an imaginary person cannot vote. That’s not something that needs to be proven, it’s self evident.

The way this worked is that ACORN workers created fake registrations so that they could get paid. There’s nothing political about that really, it’s just a matter of some lazy workers trying to get over on their bosses.

Again, I understand that it’s illegal to create false registrations. I am not disputing that. What I am disputing is the idea that this has something to do with real election fraud because there’s no evidence that an imaginary person voted due to being registered by an ACORN worker.

Or if you look at some of these other situations “Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times.” Do you think this guy is going to vote 72 times now that he’s been registered 72 times? I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy didn’t even vote once.

That would explain the UFO in your yard.

Did you see what was happening in Ohio during the primary? Were you in a coma then? ACORN is clearly an organization that uses Saul Alinski tactics; as FLDemFem pointed out in her comment to me above, the things that ACORN did in Texas are indeed criminal–and this was Democrats (well, in name only since they were for Obama) working agains another Democrat. You really, really do need to view some of the “We Will Not Be Silenced” videos.

It wasn’t the GOP who were first upset with ACORN. The Hillary Dems were the first to call them out.

If you’re not an obamabot, then your only other excuse, since you aren’t imbibing the Kool-Aide, is that you have no ethical standards, no sense of right and wrong, and no clue as to why this is such a serious issue.

That means you must be about 12 and on your Mommy’s computer.

Fake registration IS voter fraud.

…In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.
And, that was just Missouri.

You can read the rest here:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/2/

OK it’s “voter fraud” but it’s not election fraud. There’s a huge difference there. I think that this term “voter fraud” is thrown around like this because it’s technically correct (ie fake voters are being registered) yet it creates the false premise that actual election fraud has taken place (when it has not.)

I do not appreciate the personal insults (ie “fool.”) It’s a good idea to keep a debate about the ideas and the facts and not about name calling.

Prove there were no fraudulent votes cast and I’ll concede your opinion. Oh, you can’t.

Too bad.

it is a problem of a partisan organization being funded under the guise of non-partisanship, that commits the biggest case of voter registration fraud, ever.

one example:

According to STATSIndiana, In 2007, Indianapolis/Marion County had an estimated population of 876,804. Of that number 232,607 were below 18 years of age, for a total of 644,197 people in Marion County/Indianapolis 18 or over and thus eligible to vote. (Indiana allows felons to vote as long as they are not incarcerated).

So we have 644,197 people eligible to be registered in Marion County/Indianapolis, and 677,401 people registered. Congratulations go to Indianapolis for having 105% of its residents registered!

Acorn submitted 91,002 completed forms in Clark County, which includes Las Vegas, of which 23,186 turned out to be valid… we’re paying for that crap?

Obama paid ACORN $800,000 and is on video promising them a seat at his table, etc.

And fake registrations can turn into fake votes, as well as fake caucus participants. People can register at two adresses, they can vote with mail in ballots, and at the polls. They can vote at two different polling places, etc.

Most of what we have seen by ACORN so far is their complete and utter lack of respect for the process, and a bunch of hacks who don’t take their job seriously. It is a waste of money.

And I am not convinced that hundreds of thousands of fake voter registrations do not produce some fraud at the polls.

And I also feel that if citizens are not concerned enough to register to vote without an organization like ACORN hounding them, and bribing them with cigarettes, they probably have no clue about who they are voting for, and shouldn’t vote. (case in point this past election)

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

I assume you are also OK with the fact that after ACORN finished turning in their fraudulent voter registrations, there were more “registered” voters in many counties than there were adults over the age of 18. I assume you are OK with the county clerks who must hire extra workers to sort through the mess and challenge all the registrations that ACORN workers fabricated and all the registrations from cemeteries.

The thing ACORN has repeatedly accomplished is that the voter registration process is so corrupted that most people have no faith that there is a fair and level playing field. Further, most resent having to spend extra taxpayer funds to straighten out the messes made by these partisan bullies.

Another thing I think should be discussed is the PERCEPTION that Obama had so many new voters registered and all the blah blah about his grassroot support that was totally bogus. Even if the false registrations did not lead to one actual false vote, they created a perception–willingly aided and abetted by the media–that Obama had millions of people hungry to participate in the election process. That perception is all that is necessary to move some people to vote for The Chosen One–they want to back a winner. So whether anyone falsely voted or not, ACORN’s illegal action did change the course of the election.

Yea, can you believe these people??

I agree about Obama being “above the law.” We had the same problem with Bush. Presidents have way too much power in this country. It’d be nice if the people had that power instead.

And please hear my point clearly: I am not stating that there was no fraud by ACORN employees or that ACORN did not encourage fake registrations (perhaps not on purpose but with the way they required their workers to bring in 20 registrations every day) what I am stating is that their “voter fraud” did *not* lead to election fraud and that’s a very essential point.

Another thing I think should be discussed is the PERCEPTION that Obama had so many new voters registered and all the blah blah about his grassroot support that was totally bogus. Even if the false registrations did not lead to one actual false vote, they created a perception–willingly aided and abetted by the media–that Obama had millions of people hungry to participate in the election process. That perception is all that is necessary to move some people to vote for The Chosen One–they want to back a winner. So whether anyone falsely voted or not, ACORN’s illegal action did change the course of the election.

I do not believe that because I’ve seen absolutely no proof of it. I’ve only seen proof that fake registrations were made and like I’ve shown through irrefutable logic, fake registrations do not lead to fake votes. Please tell me a scenario where a fake registration could lead to fake votes? Especially a *lot* of fake votes (which is how many it would have taken to put McCain on top.)

I think this is quite a stretch but I will say that it’s at least somewhat plausible.

It is true that the somewhat pumped up Democratic registrations probably gave the Democrats some “wind at their sails” although I find it hard to believe the average voter really cares about stuff like that. I think it’s more us hardcore politico types that care about how many new registrations are brought in for each party.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy didn’t even vote once.”

Which goes to my point that we should do away with a tax payer funded group like ACORN.

Can’t say it yet, even if it has been proven behind closed doors. If there is proof that ACORN has led to either fake votes or others being barred from voting it will be brought out in trial.

Your summation is short-sighted, A-Mouse.

That fact that the lawsuit (s) has/ have been filed points to a question of wrong-doing by ACORN. ACORN doesn’t get a pass because of a couple of complaints. THINK!

The rumors are now turning into lawsuits, with at least two employees of ACORN already admitting to falsifying voter registrations in order to meet quotas and keep their jobs at the time.

Nevada decided it has enough compelling and damning evidence to bring lawsuit against ACORN. End of story at this point.

Yes! Put down the only candidate who is for real universal health care and real civil liberties for everyone… Dennis Kucinich is a great man.

Voter fraud cannot take place without fraudulent registration; fraudulent registration is a necessary condition for voter fraud. If you don’t get this, you are a troll and a very uneducated one. ACORN is responsible for the conduct of their “employees”, therefore they have vicarious liability for those in their “employ.

In this interview Glenn Beck said that ACORN received $10 million last year… $10 million in the federal budget isn’t even a drop in the bucket.

I guess it’s a question of whether you believe that the government has a role in trying to get people involved in democracy – as a far left liberal (I am) I think they do have such a role. I think registering voters who don’t normally register to vote (poor people) is a good thing.

If you don’t, that’s fine. That’s something we can disagree on.

None of us here are objecting to registering as many valid voters as possible, as long as election rules are followed.

It has not just been a Republican tactic to disallow people to register. Please remember that MLK was a Republican before he was a Democratic hero. Republicans were the party of Lincoln. I also remember voter fraud accusations clinging to President Johnson in Texas.

Voter fraud has long been something we all need to fight. See the posts on Hacking Democracy.

We are just saying that ACORN does have an agenda against the Republican party–and, against Democrats who don’t follow O’s lead.

Again, this guy prosecuting in Nevada is a Democrat.

But as a teacher, I am also a little opposed to hunting down people and registering them. In my mind, if they can’t get themselves registered, they don’t care enough to study the issues and vote based on sound evidence.

Perhaps you didn’t also see the videos of people claming to be big O fans and intending to vote for O but answering the questioner’s remarks about his VP candidate Sarah Palin without realising that she was McCain’s VP candidate. Do you really, really want uneducated voters? Anyone can vote in America if he/she is a citizen and wants to vote badly enough to get him- or herself registered and then gets him- or herself to the polls. And that is of course, if there are no Democratic or Republican officials working against the system.

ACORN clearly in the primary deliberately worked against the system.

When you learn how to debate, we’ll consider your request.

It’s only to houses built since the last census. One came to my house yesterday. She was very polite and answered all questions. My neighbor’s father also has this same job in a different town. The only thing I wonder is why the government couldn’t pull this info off of Google Earth. They waste $$ on purpose, I guess.

Well then you need more practice on LOGICAL thinking as opposed to LINEAR thinking – or at least a better understanding of the legal system.

Lawsuits begun by a state are not generally frivolous-especially when the defendants are associated with the federal government.

Nevada has found a preponderance of evidence to bring forth action against ACORN. Stop trying to try the case in your own head, A-Mouse.

You don’t have the head for it.

How do you know? You know for a fact that ACORN only registered “Mickey Mouse” types? Seems pretty easy to randomly register someone from the phonebook, say Joe Blow, and then have someone show up to that poll as Joe Blow and vote. You don’t have to show ID at the polls.

So please, before you embarrass yourself even further do a little critical thinking….

The $800 billion-plus stimulus bill, which is now formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 or Public Law 111-5, originally set aside $5.2 billion that could flow directly or indirectly into the coffers of ACORN and its liberal friends. It appears the $5.2 billion was chopped down to $3 billion in the version of the bill that Obama signed into law on February 17. The $3 billion consists of $2 billion in funds set aside for the redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes and$1 billion in Community Development Block Grants (CDBG).

CDBG is good old-fashioned graft. Local politicians of both parties love CDBG because it is flexible. The program gives them wide latitude when spending grant money and allows local leaders to use federal dollars on local projects that they wouldn’t dream of spending their own local tax dollars on. ACORN loves CDBG because it is adept at lobbying for CDBG funds.

In addition to the $3 billion available in the stimulus package, the proposed $47.5 billion HUD budget for the fiscal year that begins October 1 provides $1 billion for an affordable housing trust fund and $4.5 billion in CDBG funds that could be funneled to ACORN indirectly.

Of course ACORN won’t get it all, and given its history of electoral fraud and racketeering, it shouldn’t get a penny of federal money.

I’d disagree with that. I think those of us who take the time to go online and go to blogs and get the real story behind the issues and find out what’s being reported and what’s not being reported are far fewer than the average voter who sees a quick headline and is swayed to back a winner. It was very hard to be an educated voter this year–especially if you didn’t drink the Kool-Aid.

I’ll agree with that premise (that a fake registration is necessary for a fake vote) what I don’t agree with is that that’s what this was all about. There’s no evidence that these employees had any interest in creating fake votes. That would have been a much difficult thing to pull off. How do you do that exactly? You’d have to get people willing to go in and vote multiple times wearing different costumes with different fake identities? Would they have fake IDs? I mean how much trouble do you think people are going to go to for a few fake votes? It just doesn’t make any sense.

On the other hand the problem of voter purges is a real one. That’s where Republicans (yes, it’s always Republicans) purge the voter rolls in hopes of knocking off likely Democratic voters (ie minorities) – this has happened many times and it’s a *real* problem.

That’s what I keep going back to: I’m interested in the things that lead to real election fraud. There’s no evidence that these types of fake registrations lead to any fake votes (and if they have it’d be just a few isolated incidents.) Meanwhile many thousands (even millions) of people are disenfranchised by voter purges every election. That’s an issue that we (Americans!) should be getting up in arms about.

But you don’t know that ACORN didn’t. You’re just seeing the issue from your own set of values and perspective only, A-Mouse.

A-Nony-Mouse
Given the FACT that ACORN paid workers turned in fraudulent voter registrations throughout the country, please tell me why you believe that no one actually voted fraudulently? After all, if Mickey Mouse is registered and in my precinct and I walk in and swear that my name is indeed Mickey Mouse, then I must be allowed to vote. It may be placed in the provisional status for verification, but in most states no photo identification is required to vote.

When the POTUS and many of his sheeple seeing nothing wrong with voter fraud by ACORN, why should the average Joe or Jane have any faith in the electoral process?

Man, talk about rigid thinking, A-Mouse.

I have a sense of right and wrong. For example I think personal insults in a debate is wrong. You clearly do not.

Secondly what I think is really wrong is voters being disenfranchised. This is a real issue that is being ignored while this non-issue is being trumped up.

What is so wrong (for the country) about fake registrations being made? It’s wrong of the worker to do that. They are cheating their bosses. But it’s not wrong in the sense that it hurts democracy and that’s what I care about.

Dennis Kucinich is an idiot. That`s why he waited 9 hours to get a good seat to watch Obama`s speech.

I did watch the video and one thing I thought was very interesting about is that he never claimed that any of this activity lead to election fraud. That’s my entire point here: This activity had no effect on the vote results. And thus, it’s hard for me to understand why people are getting so worked up about it.

Yes it’s against the law – but it has no direct impact on democracy. Compared to all of the real issues out there… I just don’t see it.

informed people will register to vote. i don’t want a bunch of people who don’t have a friggin CLUE voting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm1KOBMg1Y8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqAiarOhC2U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVX-c07uefc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uyJSXCZRpc

I strongly believe in DUI laws. I don’t appreciate the comparison as I was hit by a drunk driver when I was younger and I can assure you that creating a fake voter registration is not in the same class as nearly killing my mother.

Are you claiming that only Obama’s voters were uninformed? There are many similarly frightening videos of McCain/Palin supporters.

Personally as a Dennis Kucinich supporter I find the average info level of the major candidate voters to below par. I think most Democrats would vote for Kucinich if they voted based on the issues and not based on name or charisma.

—

MLK may have been registered as a Republican (some black people register Republicans to this day to pay respect to Abe Lincoln) but he was obviously not inline with what we think of as Republican “values” today.

It’s funny you keep saying ACORN is a GOP talking point since PUMAS were talking about ACORN last summer. It is not just the obvious fake names that weren’t going to be able to vote, but all of the voter fraud that went on thru the Dem Primaries, People voting in more than 1 state, people being bussed to caucuses ect. IF you don’t think it is sick to have your workers vote in a couple states or caucus illegally in Texas that is sad.

IF you can get a record of all the votes cast in the last primary and the last GE and verify that no fraudulent votes were cast, then I will agree with your statement. The problem is that because the system has been undermined so many ways–and one of them being the tactics of ACORN especially in the primary.

The problem is that it is probably impossible for you to get that evidence. We had young college reporters in Ohio finding enough evidence that ACORN organizers were intending to vote illegally in Ohio. Because they were caught by reporters and didn’t vote after all does not absolve ACORN. If they didn’t get away with it once might mean that they DID get away with it somewhere else. You prove to me that this once case was the ONLY case.

I strongly disagree. If you look at the actual issues you will find that Dennis Kucinich is the one who is on the side of the people while the corporate politicians (including Obama and all of the rest) are on the side of big business.

Quite frankly I am quite sure that I’ve won this debate. My point is simple and clear: I care about election fraud. This is not election fraud, it is “voter fraud” which while it may be a scary sounding term is actually quite innocuous. The Republicans regularly commit real election fraud (voter purges) which keep many hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) from voting each election.

The 3 in Ohio pled guilty last week

If they liked to follow rules wouldn’t they follow them and check their own processes? I personally can’t believe that a logical person wouldn’t do some verification of the process and the jobs one’s employees are doing for such an important issue as the integrity of the voting process.

It was Saul Alinsky tactics plain and simple–old union tactics that are more Marxist in style than democratic.

There’s no proof that this kind of activity took place. On the contrary, the evidence is that it was simply workers trying to get paid for doing nothing. There’s no evidence of workers conspiring to create a few extra votes (and that’s what this would accomplish, at best – with great risk involved) in this way. Hell I bet most of the workers cared a lot more about the money they were making than who won the elections.

mouse, the resident troll for the thread defending the very vigilant and fraudelent, ACORN. Nut, do you feel vindicated and have a boost to your self esteem now by defending something, no matter how corrupt and slimey? Sad, such low expectations. Get some help. Acorn is corrupt through and through.

btw, turnning in hundreds of false registrations is not only illegal, it also overwhelms election workers who could then be overwhelmed and get tired or simply get frustrated and not check everything thoroughly which I am sure is the intent of Acorn.

Your premise doesn’t correspond to the reality of the situation. If you have an ACORN worker making up fake registrations then there are no *real people* associated with those fake registrations. There’s no one there to walk in and claim he’s Mickey Mouse. At it’s very premise this idea is flawed.

If you try to actually work out a scenario where this would lead to fake votes you quickly run into very unlikely situations. The fact is most people aren’t going to risk voting twice (in different precincts under different names) and anyone who would do that, wouldn’t need any help from ACORN or anyone else. They could attempt that kind of real vote fraud (notice the difference between vote fraud and voter fraud, one leads to actual fake votes.)

The fraud that ACORN workers are involved with just doesn’t rationally lead to fake votes. It doesn’t pass the “smell test” so to speak. It’s clear by looking at the situation rationally that there was not an intention to create fake votes, but only to get easy money. It’s important to think of the motivation behind the average worker. Get paid for doing nothing… that sounds about right.

Strange, but I have never got a job from a poor man.

How do we know which fake registrations voted or not. From pictures on election day it looked like Acorn was still out in full force. What was seen was harrassment, but Im sorry I think there was more.
When I told friends of mine that I would feel so much more comfortable if Obama had won failry. Many came back with “So what if Obama cheated, so did Bush”…When asked if they thought Obama cheated it was an overwhelming yes. Oh by the way these are my friends that chastised me for supporting McCain in the General Election.

Wake up mouse, the media played up all the new “registrations”, and that it was because of Obama.

Perception matters. And it was a fraud all the way around.

Let alone their using the ACORN connections for coordinating caucus events….

And the bringing in college kids from other states to register and vote on election day in Ohio.

Again with the name calling? I’m anything but a troll. A troll is someone who states something they do not believe in order to get a rise out of other people. I strongly believe what I’m saying here. I think it makes a lot of sense and I truly beg of everyone to put aside their partisanship and political leanings and to look at the situation rationally and think to themselves if it really makes sense. If you look at it in a real world situation of what these workers were doing and what their intentions were it’s obvious that they just wanted to get paid for doing nothing. It’s just as obvious that it doesn’t make any sense for ACORN to want their workers to create fake registrations if their purpose is to elect Democrats (which I will agree they probably do want to elect Democrats) … doesn’t it make more sense for them to want to register *real* people who will actually vote and help the Democrats win the election? See that’s another very important point that has yet to be brought up. There are a *LOT* of unregistered voters in this country, it’s unlikely that ACORN ran out of prospects and wanted their people to make up fake registrations that wouldn’t help their cause.

Where do you keep getting this info it never led to voter fraud? From ACORN? Because that is NOT true.

They had legal problems years before the last election they had time to fix the problem IF they wanted to, but it was more important to steal the election for their community organizer.

My house isn’t on Google Earth yet. LOL I put together a horse farm out of a hay field, and on Google it’s still a hay field.

Wow — got a link by chance. Many thanks.

Hot Air has the videos:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/06/glenn-beck-kicks-acorn-spokesman-off-the-set-for-accusing-him-of-racism/

Your premises are so wrong. Of course it helps ACORN’s cause to turn in thousands of voter registrations, real and false. Overwhelm the system, increase their clout with fellow liberals, assist those who would vote fraudulently for their candidates. That’s the game. It worked against Hillary. It worked in Texas way back when Lyndon Johnson ran for the Senate–dead people in Duval County voted in droves.

It says much about you that you would spend so much time and energy defending repeated illegal voter registration by ACORN.

Why couldn’t they vote on fake registration…They did as long as you know what name was registerred anyone can go up and claim to be that person and vote, especially states that don’t show IDs

In the caucuses they bussed people in and overwhelmed the places with voters that noone in that area ever saw before, groups of them . They also had college kids vote in their home state and where they went to College.

It is partisian when the group is working with and getting money and Donor lists from the Obama campaign.

Yep.

http://www.thenextright.com/mikeroman/guilty-pleas-in-ohio-voter-fraud-a-warning-to-states-parties-and-candidates

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/04/28/three_voters.html

You don’t need different costumes and most states don’t check IDs (because Poeple like Obama fought against making voters show ids) all you have to do is go to a couple different polling places and tell the fake name. It was even easier to do since voting wasn’t done on the same day which is why they BUSSED voters in from neighboring states.
I don’t know why you keep saying this isn’t true. Look at all the people that caucussed illegally in Texas who didn’t vote earlier in the day.

You are not getting my point at all. I mentioned MLK to and Johnson to try to get you to see that the arguments against ACORN are not just GOP talking points. It was voting rights that finally brought the AAs to the Democratic Party in the South when Nixon did not listen to MLK but Kennedy did. These questions and concerns are part of a long tradition in the U.S. of citizen concern about maintaining a fair voting process.

I like Dennis Kucinich a lot and get tired of people making light of him as I believe him to be a sincere politician working for the people, as you do, but I am also a realist. His candidacy was never going anywhere given the many chasms separating the various political ideologies across the country.

Because I ended up being convinced Hillary was the best candidate for leading a greatly divided country, I can and do get angry that ACORN, funded by my taxes, could commit the primary fraud I am convinced it did–especially in the caucus states.

Your devotion to Kucinich and wanting people to see things his way has blinded you to seeing the fraud committed against voters everywhere in the U.S. recently. If what we are saying is true about ACORN’s effects on the primary is true, which I am convinced it is, then those effects hurt Kucinich also.

We need to keep reminding you that ACORN is in every way really joined at the hip with Obama, and now with the government. As a Kucinich fan, I would think that would bother you as much as it does us. It does not matter to me that the GOP and GOP leaning talking heads are the leading forces fighting this issue. It does matter to me that the truth should come out about what indeed did happen in regard to ACORN and what might continue to happen since that organization is going to be heavily involved with the census. The results of the census clearly also impacts voting and funding in the U.S.

I do not believe that Kucinich would willingly take an office that was won for him by fraudulent tactics. So your saying we should not be “distracted” by this issue is crazy to me. All the other issues pale in comparison to the issue about the integrity of our democratic process.

The GORE/BUSH election was bad enough and, to me, one of the worst examples of vote rigging in our history; and then to have serious concerns arise in this election, as I believe the DNC completely rigged the vote for O, reveals a pretty frightening trend as far as I am concerned, and it is the one issue I want addressed above all issues.

At our state Democratic Convention and Assembly, O supporter laughed at us in Hillary’s voting line as their ballot line was moving at a brisk pace and Hillary’s wasn’t. You see, Hillary allowed us to actually vote for our preferences for national delegates, while O’s delegates at the state convention were provided ballots with names already filled in for them and all they had to do was sign. They tried to imply that procedure made him the better candidate because it meant they got out of the hot arena sooner. (Never mind that the voting had been delayed by them for a long time as they tried to tire out our older delegates and get them to leave and as they frantically tried to get some of their non-shows to show up.)

When one made a smarmy comment about O’s superior ballot, I simply replied, with a chill going down my spine as I recognized the point I was making, that their ballots remined me of the ballots provided people in the old Soviet Union. They could vote there as long as they voted the way they were told to vote by the Party.

If this issue isn’t resolved, we may be facing that type of previously filled in ballot here very soon.

it didn’t start with Mccain, it started in the primaries, but I think you know theis and are just acting like you didn’t hear about all the voter fruad during the primaries with the out of state buses, or even better when they picked people up from adult day care centers (with out the families permission) and helped them vote for Obama.

I give up, you just keep saying there was no voter fraud, did you watch any of we will not be silenced?

“voter fraud did not lead to election fraud”
Well, I guess the jury’s still out on that one; if any of those voters who crossed state lines, used fake addresses, or signed up 78 times for a dollar and a pack of smokes actually voted and had his/her vote counted then it’s election fraud. All this deconstruction makes one nauseous–and ends up rationalizing every kind of unlawful behavior.

A Non Mousy, ACORN and thugs working for similar groups DID engage in voter supression. For example, in Philadelphia there were thugs waiting in front of polling places intimidating voters who were coming to the polls. And there WAS voter suppression in the Texas Caucuses, as ACORN and Obama supporters used thug tactics to steal caucus votes from Hillary. There was massive fraud in Texas, and much of it will eventually be tied to ACORN and/or Obama operatives.

Look the video of the CNN reporter that interviewed the guy in Phila that said he voted for Obama a couple times that day already was taken down, what a shock http://www.wikio.com/video/574133

Phila was a fun city that day, with the obama supporters BRAGGING and laughing about voting a couple times and the Black Panthers with nightstickes out side the polling places..until the cops made them leave.

It IS election fraud when people vote more than once, no matter how many times you say that didn’t happen doesn’t make it true. So there was Election fraud.

WHY do the Dems fight against having to show IDs to vote? THAT would make elections fair

No I’d say troll is about right, it’s someone that goes to a Blog they normally don’t go to and say the same thing over and argues with just about everyone, because just you are right.

IF you really believe what you are saying, and don’t believe MANY MANY Obama supporters voted more than once and in more than 1 state..oh well

about time!

ACORN is indefensible

Reading A-Noni-Mouse, comments, No wonder 0bama won the election.I don’t want to insult nobody but, Noni,you need to add some points to your IQ. Please, put your mind to work. You have a ” fixation”, repeating the same thing again and again. No one can get tru with your thinking.

Plus, The 0 campaign called Hillary’s delegates for county conventions and misinformed them about the time and locations of their conventions. I learned about this when I was calling her delegates to make sure they knew where and when to go.

What about the Hillary supporters they locked out during the caucuses? THAT sure sounded like voter supression to me. Or stealing the sign in sheets, but I guess THAT didn’t effect the elections either.

Well, I have been reading up on politics, studying history, and voting since ’72, when I could first vote, and I voted as a Democrat all those years. How long have you been doing that?

Since I made my considered decision to vote for Hillary instead of Kucinich in the primary, does that make me less intelligent than you are? Should we match IQ scores or GRE scores, or ACT scores, or SAT scores. What will measure intelligence for you? I am pretty sure I can go head to head with you there, if not beat you on all counts.

All I am saying is that people who are bribed to sign their name to register are probably not informed at all about democracy much less about the issues. And more Obama supporters were registered that way than other voters. (Please check out sarainitaly’s excellent links that show the intelligence of some Obama supporters.) And if you’ve seen stupid McCain voter videos, please post your evidence as people here can do.

As a student taking the test on logical fallacies in my research writing classes, I am guessing you might not have scored very high. You are one of those people who decide your opinion is the only right opinion then don’t really listen to what others try to tell you and you go on to twist their statements to assure yourself that your opinion is still the only right one as far as you are concerned. I’m done with trying to reason with you, since that is an impossible task when someone does not use reason at all.

You said, “The idea that “Mickey Mouse” actually gets to VOTE in an election is ludicrous. The entire argument against ACORN is ludicrous if you really look at it. Basically they are saying that ACORN purposefully registered fake people who would never be able to vote (being that they are not real)… what would be the point of even doing that?”

***
I’ll tell you the point of that.

The point was to make the whole conversation with ACORM seem ridulous. To reduce it to a joke. That way, while everyone knows that Mickey Mouse couldn’t vote, “Mickey Jones” or “Mickey Smith” could vote fraudulently and no-one would catch it.

The “Mickeys” were cover for hard to recognize false registrations that built 0bamas vote counts.

Fake registrations do indeed vote if you bus in people and assign them their “name for a day.”

Yes, I did above. If you bus in people, say from county to county, and assign them “names for a day,” you easily create loads of illegal votes.

And many people saw just that, buses of young men driving up and unloading at voting locations and then all reloading and driving away.

It’s slick, but not very hard to figure out. So please stop playing the innocent here or people will think you have a mouse brain. Mickey?

I am willing to agree that actual disenfranchisement a la Florida in 2002 is a far greater crime than inadequate oversight in hiring employees to register voters.
I do understand that ACORN itself turned in the crazy ballots as they are required to under the law and that they did not have the legal authority to simply junk them.
As a gun supporter, I even regard ACORN’s work in the NJ gun purchasing rights favorably.
HOWEVER, I do not regard ACORN as a non-partisan or neutral entity in any way.
Nor do I find favor with a group that encourages squatting in foreclosed homes, and has encouraged illegal squatting for decades.
ACORN is an NGO with operations in many areas, not merely voter registration. And it has not always advocated following the law.
This is why I’d rather voters were registered through some other method than ACORN.

You omit Cynthia McKinney. And she didn’t try to take her name off any ballots.

Yeah, that didn’t happen because the Mouse didn’t see it with his own eyes.

Since this is the Open thread did you see Fox is doing really well? Must be all the Hillary Dems that left CNN and MSNBC last year and started watching Fox http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090506006400&newsLang=en
…Commenting on the results, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rupert Murdoch said:

“Our third quarter results directly reflect the continuing weakness of the global economic climate. Despite this tough environment, we have proven resilient in several key areas this quarter. Our Cable Network Programming segment showed remarkable growth, led by the FOX News Channel which nearly doubled its operating income over the year ago quarter…

I think A-Noni is having a bit of fun with this blog and you guys are playing right into it.

Anyone can understand that you have to have a fake registration before you can have a fake vote, well anyone except A-Noni. That fact alone should be a clue that the poster is not serious. Either that or they don’t have a clue. Either way it’s probably better to not feed the troll.

Just my opinion.

I hear you Lynn. I was a happy Democrat until the horrors of Obama and his minions sent me running from the Democratic party. I used to watch CNN and MSNBC, but with their viciousness toward Hillary, I just couldn’t take it anymore. I watch FoxNews now exclusively.

Something else. I was a lifelong Democrat, and during all that time I never noticed, and never did believe, complaints about liberal media bias. I was totally unaware of it, because I was a happy and blind party-line Democrat. But when I started seeing how the MSNBC thugs started acting toward Hillary, and then noticing also that Fox was actually treating her BETTER and with more respect than the other channels I used to watch, I started noticing the hard-left media bias. It is real and palpable.

The liberal MSM are bozos who I hold in deep, deep contempt. They are an abomination, and so are Obama and his minions. I will always despise the Democrats as long as Obama is at the helm of the party.

This is all part of the 2008 anti-Obama campaign, transmitted by mass e mailings, crackpot blogs, and FOX news. It has now become part of the right wing mythology, explaining How the election was stolen–the actual Truth being too unpleasant to contemplate. (i.e., a majority of American voters REJECTED the republican sales pitch and the republican candidates.)

There was registration fraud. It was ACORN that was defrauded, by deadbeat hourly employees who found it was easier to make up bogus names than to find actual people to register.

There were virtually no documented instances of fraud on election day. While it is easy to make up names and addresses to fill in on registration forms while sitting in your local McDonalds, it is exceedingly difficult to subsequently attach actual bodies to those fictitious names that will show up, stand in line, and try to cast a vote.

Polling place intimidation is also largely myth. The only example FOX could find to cover on election day was the pathetic comedy skit involving two so called “black panthers”.

Sorry, the voter intimidation in Philadelphia was not a myth or a “comedy skit.” You are badly misinformed. Here is some video from that incident. Specifically, police responding to the complaint of these thugs intimidating voters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFOKnJ0oXYY&feature=PlayList&p=8163357B176F421D&index=2

admin, why was my first post deleted? it was completely innocuous…

YOU GUYS!!!

You have to put up the interview he had with the guy today. It’s fantastic!!

Here!!

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=4870808&referralPlaylistId=playlist

it called registration fraud and people guilty to it. Stop trying to excuse obviously bad behavior by minimizing the crime. This is something that affects the integrity of our entire political system.

Hmmmm…well voter registration issues in 2000 brought us a war of convenience and a lot of US and Iraqi deaths.

But nevermind those dead boys and girls…eh?

My comment was directed at the Nevada case, only. Surmising that the 39 counts brought forth by the state of Nevada has no effect on voter outcome is what A-Mouse is trying to peddle.

I recently had a person show up from the Census. The person had what appeared to be valid credentials. They were paying him 15 an hour he said.

On Anderson Cooper’s show tonight, Father Pfleger was flying a U.S. flag upside down and the CNN Correspondent, David Mattingly, acted indifferent to what Pfleger was doing:

REV. MICHAEL PFLEGER, ST. SABINA CHURCH: Well, I think it is strong. I think it’s a radical move, but I think it’s a radical problem.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): He ordered the church’s flag to be hung upside down, a symbol of stress.

Pfleger is a defiant, U.S. hating jerk.

A-Nony-Mouse, respectfully you might do some homework on this one.

Your point is correct that the GOP made it a talking point. If you had not missed the underlining facts regarding ACORN you would not dismiss them so, and the outright fraud that was committed by ACORN.
This was NOT about a few “lazy employees”. It IS about organized crime and election fraud. ACORN should be brought up on RICO charges. But then your stuck on that dribble about GOP talking points.

I have allways liked your handle
and many of you comments.

That’s all that ACORN is doing here, so why are people so upset about something that has no effect on the vote totals?

You so very wrong on this point. I direct you to the many articles on NQ, New Hamsters writings and the many others that covered this organization during the primaries. ACORN has flown under the radar for many a year but BO was there guy.

Many people witnessed criminal acts and it is a fact they did change outcomes of Caucus states.

why I should care about something that is clearly just a bureaucratic problem

Because we do not live in Russia.
The fact that you have to ask is a sign of times.

The weakness in you arguement is that even just ONE VOTE gone missing, (valid registration cards that where THROWN AWAY) is a criminal act that changes the vote.

It could be YOUR vote.

mountainaires, What a time saver you are. We would not want to trouble A-Nony-Mouse’s sensibilities with facts.

What I always find amusing is people encounter facts and treat them like it is a close encounter of the third kind. Who knew?

Some of these folks need to phone home ASAP.

THEY PUT FRAUDULENT INFO ON A GOVERNMENT FORM THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO CONTAIN TRUTHFUL INFORMATION.

Betsy, the nesting is quirky on this thread. I was responding to a comment the A-mouse made. But it looked like I was responding to you.

Obama paid ACORN $800,000 for a ‘get out the vote’ campaign. It’s an arm of the Obama campaign.

BTW, they first claimed it was for staging and lighting which is something that ACORN does not do. They had to AMEND their FEC filings when they were busted for it.

This whole post articulates my experience also.

Acorn was involved in the caucus fraud. That’s not a republican attempt to confuse people. Hillary dems themselves experienced it and reported on it.

Can you dispute what I just said? Is there proof of what ACORN does leading to even ONE fake vote

You have many people responding to your obtuse BS with great paitentence and grace.

Now, please don’t insult their intelligence and kind justure of patienence. Dimwit is being kind.

And after having registered these people without their knowing they have a new, valid registration, they can send someone else in to vote FOR that person, an imposter voting for an imposter.

It is fraudulent to provide the government false information on voter registration forms. It is fraudulent to impersonate another person and forge other people’s signatures, living or dead.

Yes, the media threw around names like ‘Mickey Mouse’ and the ‘Dallas Cowboys’, but by and large the names forged or invented were not red flashing lights.

Not all states require an ID to vote. There is no way to verify all voters are legally registered AFTER the vote. Some don’t require it so that no one is discouraged from coming out to vote. And because they want to encourage people to vote the law says you cannot fraudulently register people.

Election fraud doesn’t just happen on election day, it occurs when the democratic process is illegally abused by criminals who threaten it. Like George Bush and ACORN/Obama. Obama paid them $800,000 dollars for fraudulant, illegal services therefore although he isn’t the gun man, he hired the hitman.

really for the people.

but again you miss the point. ACORN is not “of the people”.

Can you wake up? or must you be left in peaceful slumbers?

You’re so right, Mouse, popular opinion probably has ZERO impact on getting democratically elected.

Go with that.

*snark*

“put aside their partisanship”

Ah. You seem to think you are a democrat on a republican blog. Most people posting are/were life-long dems. This isn’t partisanship.

Not if you bring them all iPods!

“it is exceedingly difficult to subsequently attach actual bodies to those fictitious names that will show up, stand in line, and try to cast a vote.”

That’s because the MSM is now only a tool for this administration, it’s a weapon and it’s aimed at anyone voicing dissent.

Also, it’s really clever of you to demand ‘after-the-fact evidence’ of voter fraud when my vote and yours is PRIVATE.

You require that they go back and look at ballots that were cast and match them up to real or fraudulent names. When ballots are examined for recounts, they remain anonymous. They don’t get to see a name on a ballot, it has a number. That number corresponds to a voter’s name in a registry book. The evidence you are looking for violates a fundmental right to PRIVACY.

Why do you think ACORN paid bonuses for collecting extra registrations? Because they thought god would give them salvation for ‘getting out the vote’ and as a non profit they had money to throw around?

No, they saw an opportunity that was worth spending some $$ on. Now consider that Obama paid this organization $800,000 without claiming them as an arm of his campaign. He fraudulently submitted FEC forms that said he paid them for ‘Stage and Lighting equipment’ and had to later revise that to say it was for a ‘get out the vote’ campaign.

This doesn’t sound as bad or WAY worse than the proof you demand that just a single individual actually cast a fraudulent ballot (which happened THRICE in Ohio, BTW)? Those three were caught ON ELECTION DAY IN THE ACT.

Now in hindsight, you want to go back, violate people’s privacy rights to find MORE proof so that you can be certain that this predicament we are now in is BAD enough for you to be impressed.

Why not just accept that our justice system has it covered? Fraudulently registering people to vote is illegal in order to protect the integrity of our elections WHICH WAS COMPROMISED BY ACORN.

Do you get it now?

FLDemFem-

I understand you’re sentiment and I get that you are joking around but please be careful about posting stuff like this. Were something terrible to happen (of any kind, even unrelated to politics), this post alone would get trotted out as Exhibit A as evidence of a premeditated plan not emergency self defense. Free speech, yes! Setting yourself up, no!

“Personally as a Dennis Kucinich supporter ”

He didn’t run in the general election.

I take you aren’t too proud of the guy you actually voted for President, eh?

If there’s no upside to ACORN’s “merely incompetent” behavior, why are they protected for decades and singled out now for federal funding?

Agencyies are liable for their employees conduct while employees are undertaking the agent’s business.

sorry, “Agencies”

“I am also a little opposed to hunting down people and registering them. In my mind, if they can’t get themselves registered, they don’t care enough to study the issues and vote based on sound evidence.”

AMEN!!

mouse should check out:

http://www.rottenacorn.com

see convictions by state

nothing wrong with discussion. he isn’t the one who started name calling. he was trying to make a point. i disagree with his point, but he has the right to make it. there was nothing wrong with what he was saying.

I was duped as well. But I blame part of this on Republicans and the asinine things they were doing while in control for 8 years. Stupid, stupid, stupid arrogance.

I can’t take too much news of any kind. It’s just too much negativity. I usually tune in for O’Reilly and that’s about it. A little talk radio, but not all day or every day.

A-Nony, Do you know how many people used those fradulant registrations to actually cast a vote? Until you do don’t try to tell us that Acorn didn’t cheat in this last election.

Acorn wants your names address and do you think when your name is used in 2010 2012 as voted for democrats and you think after all this fraud votes and money from counties that hate us that Obama got.Why else would they want to do this… HELLO

I will tell them to go to hell.anyone comes to my door ! with this.

Obama is a fraud-a liar!

Where do you think the main stream gets the news from ? Us..The blogers they watch us and then try keep the others who had not jumped off the ship to stay asleep..Wake up people.

Patriot Act Being Used Against a 16 Year Old Boy & its Own Citizens !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9zGhYSIAP8
….

CAN LARRY COMMENT ON THIS CASE.

This anonymouse sounds very much like the sleazy front man who was on Beck last night. I’ve heard him before and his tack is to present a front of one who is infinitely patient and condescending to the interviewer, while at the same time using run-on sentences, talking over the interviewer, and in general trying to obfuscate the facts presented by the other person. One never gets anywhere with this type.
Acorn needs a better front man.

What makes you think I am joking about protecting myself? The law doesn’t state that it has to be emergency self-defense, it is remarkably vague on the parameters. I live alone out in the country, I have the right to defend myself, and to rid myself of trespassers who make me feel threatened. Whether or not it is premeditated. Anyway, I doubt they can get past the horses and the dogs. A 1200 lb. stallion is more than most people want to take on, even if he isn’t attacking. And my collies are very protective of me. So is the hound. And you can shoot someone without killing them, you know. It’s easy, just aim for the crotch. Heh.

Why are people showing up for the Census? In the ones I have participated in, the packet arrived in the mail and we filled it out ourselves. Doesn’t Obummer trust the American people to fill out their own census forms? We have been doing it for decades..hehehe

Oh,Yes ! I fully agree.Glenn Beck exposed the deceit and with his intelligent and witty ways .He cleverly gave that Acorn spokesman a mouthful that clearly set the facts straight.

Exactly my experience!

Unless a fake registration is used to cast a vote, the fake registration is totally irrelevant to the outcome of an election. They simply didn’t matter.

Driving 5 MPH over the speed limit is also against the law.

“Criminal prosecution” means a potentially unlawful act has wound up in court a court of law. It’s just a useful phrase to associate with ACORN. In most cases that’s the entire reason for prosecution: Media usefulness.

Is fake census information going to be relevant in the upcoming census? Will it affect redistricting? Of course these things matter. Especially so when they are being manipulated willfully and intentionally.

UN b lievable. No, I take that back…from what we have seen, this is SO BELIEVABLE…and if the president’s campaign can accuse everyone who disagrees with him or doesn’t like his policies as being racist, why can’t anyone else.

So sad that they have nothing to offer, so they just resort to a lie and name calling. That pretty much sums it up. They are nothing.

No one’s said anything about this story on Politico?

President Obama is morphing into old rival Hillary Clinton

Link: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22136.html

More Acorn workers charged.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D981H0JG3&show_article=1

7 Pa. ACORN workers facing voter-form charges

May 7 11:46 AM US/Eastern
By JOE MANDAK
Associated Press Writer Comments (11) Share on Facebook

PITTSBURGH (AP) – Authorities in western Pennsylvania have accused seven people who worked for the community group ACORN of falsifying voter-registration forms.
The seven have been charged with either forging, illegally soliciting or illegally filling out voter-registration cards in the lead-up to the 2008 election.

Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala Jr. announced the charges at a news conference Thursday.

ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, has come under scrutiny for registration irregularities in other states.

Authorities in Nevada filed charges Monday against ACORN and two former employees on charges they illegally paid canvassers to sign up voters. ACORN denied those accusations.

Ok what is wrong with this picture? Giving welfare recipients cars now? Where does this end? Or maybe it doesn’t.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/2009_05_07_Free_cars_for_poor_fuel_road_rage/srvc=home&position=also

Free cars for poor fuel road rage
By Hillary Chabot
Thursday, May 7, 2009 – Updated 1h ago

Gov. Deval Patrick’s free wheels for welfare recipients program is revving up despite the stalled economy, as the keys to donated cars loaded with state-funded insurance, repairs and even AAA membership are handed out to get them to work.

But the program – fueled by a funding boost despite the state’s fiscal crash – allows those who end up back on welfare to keep the cars anyway.

“It’s mind-boggling. You’ve got people out there saying, ‘I just lost my job. Hey, can I get a free car, too?’ ” said House Minority Leader Brad Jones (R-North Reading).

The Patrick administration decided last month to funnel an additional $30,000 to the nearly $400,000 annual car ownership program.

The program, which is provided by the State Department of Transitional Assistance, gives out about 65 cars a year, said DTA Commissioner Julia Kehoe.

The state pays for the car’s insurance, inspection, excise tax, title, registration, repairs and a AAA membership for one year at a total cost of roughly $6,000 per car.

OH that is so wrong…

Threat Level Privacy, Crime and Security Online
Teenage Bomb Threat Suspect Was Internet Prank-Call Star

* By Kevin Poulsen Email Author
* May 7, 2009 |

A 16-year-old North Carolina boy arrested for allegedly making a bomb threat against Purdue University had a secret identity as a superstar in an unusual online subculture — one dedicated to making prank phone calls for a live internet audience, his mother admitted Thursday.

“I heard the prank phone calls he made,” says Annette Lundeby of Oxford. “They were really funny prank phone calls…. He made phone calls to, like, Walmart.”
…
“People would pay about five dollars, and they get to submit a number,” says Jason Bennett, a 19-year-old college student in Syndey, Australia. “It was getting way out of hand.”

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/teenage-bomb-threat-suspect-was-an-internet-prank-phone-call-star/

It turns out we were duped, the kid is a social menace and needs to be held because his mom wasn’t helping to bring reality to him ‘Don’t threaten people’ and he even made international threats.

I don’t like that the mom didn’t admit to knowing and was using our good faith and good will in caring about his welfare. He needs tough love, and time out.

Thank you wired.com for researching the story and doing some thorough investigating.

ACORN is Obama’s domestic tool. Don’t be stupid. They are corrupt and the center of the radical revolution….Saul Alinsky wrote about it in his book, rules for radicals. This is Obama’s bible. ACORN needs to be dismantled. In the past election, my vote, because of ACORNS manipulation of votes, was worth one tenth…..If they are not stopped, my vote will have a value of one hundredth in the 2010 election. They are a dangerous threat to our democracy. Americans need to wake up and realize they are a threat to our liberties.

Acorn may have played a role in the caucus fraud, but the Texas Democratic Party Chairman said on one of the YouTube videos that the democratic party had been taken over by young white males. They probably were the MoveOn.org thugs who did the caucus fraud building online.

In addition, that video pointed out that over 2000 complaints were filed with the *DNC* about all the caucus problems. And the most egregious thing of all in Texas was the fact Hillary won the legally run, strict and stringent primary by a good margin, but 0zero won the caucuses by 12-17 points!! As Dr. Long said – “a mathmatical impossibility” since one (the primary or caucus) should have reflected the other, percentage-wise.
0zero pocketed 9 MORE delegates in Texas than Hillary.

Given the number of “Mickey Mouse” type registrations, I would bet the ranch those registrants were somehow used by this group. All the elections board people are not necessarily those referred to earlier as faithful volunteers who will stay up all night to work out a problem.

I saw an HBO documentary a couple of years ago about how it is possible for the voting machines to be manipulated to reflect a different total or result than the actual voting results by people that know what they are doing.

I voted in one of the red turned blue states. Given the composition of the workers and supervisors at my elections board, there was no doubt the majority were 0 supporters. Consequently I remain highly suspicious that states elections results were likely doctored.

Well you have a choice Martial go to 0′s site and talk to your hearts content… We will not be there telling you what to write etc it’s easy simply hit the road.

Martial, you obviously didn’t get the latest memo, the race card has been dealt too many times now, no one is paying attention. Also, Glenn Beck is not a journalist, has never represented himself as one. CNN misrepresents their garbage as news, that’s the difference.

Please stop calling Glenn Witty, being a jerk and an assho*le is not witty or smart or professional. Anyone of you morons here at NQ could have done what he did, he isn’t doing anything special.

If he had behaved in a professional manner I would give him credit but he did not.

To think that some of you lavish him all this unworthy praises says a lot about your intelligence or should I say lack of intelligence.

Oh please Babs, Fox news misrepresents their garbage as news just as CNN does, in fact Fox news started the trend.

*”being a jerk and an assho*le is not witty or smart or professional.”*

Were you looking in the mirror when you typed that?

you people. …..Obot droppings, JustMe, their cave is near.

I’ve noticed quite a few people here saying pro-Glenn Beck statements (btw I just watched his interview with the ACORN guy and I thought it was absolutely ridiculous – Beck’s argument was entirely illogical and he was also extremely rude to his guest.)

Anyway since I know most of the people here supported Hillary Clinton for President I thought they may want to know what Glenn Beck thinks about Hillary. Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSE8OwaJgeg

It might as well be because you are fighting for the other side. If you care at all about democratic ideals than Glenn Beck is your enemy. ACORN is doing nothing but trying to help poor people who get taken advantage of every day in this country. They do a lot of positive work in poor communities. And yes they register poor people to vote (who usually vote for Democrats if they bother to vote) … Yes some of their workers wanted to get paid for not doing their job. Just like some Wal-Mart employees want to get paid for slacking off or stealing stuff or helping their friends steal stuff. The idea that an employer is responsible for everything an employee does, especially when its not what the employer would want (obviously ACORN wants *real* people registered as fake people do not vote.)

It’s just exhausting stating the same fact that just trumps everything else over and over again with people just not getting it: There is absolutely no evidence of any real election fraud (ie fake votes being cast) due to ACORN. That means this is a BS story that is being fluffed up by the right wingers to try and hurt Obama’s popularity so that we (Americans) can’t get universal health care and a more fair government.

No, Obama is nowhere near perfect. He’s a corporate politician – but he’s way better than any Republican.

And maybe he will lead the way to a real liberal being elected next time (like Dennis Kucinich.)

If you care at all about democratic ideals than Glenn Beck is your enemy.

He a fellow American, asshole. I do NOT have to like him or agree with him but he is not the enemy you silly mouse! You would not know a piece of cheese if it was what you are sitting.

ACORN is doing nothing but trying to help poor people who get taken advantage of every day in this country

Ya poor BO. and poor little ACORN.
GAG ME! ACORN is a criminal enterprise and should be brought up on RICO charges.

[...] to give them now. You may want to lie down for this one. Ready? Barney Frank wants to give ACORN, currently under FEDERAL investigation in Nevada, as well as being investigated in a number of states across the country (including SC), $8.5 [...]

[...] You can see my original open thread here. [...]