There must have been a peaceful time.

So sad…I’m a 60′s child also, but my family was always involved in something. Mostly my aunts. Plus, my uncles served in Vietnam, the two men that lived next door to us at the time. I saw how they were treated, how it affected them. The drugs. I swore then never again in my lifetime. I’ve lost relatives in Iraq.

I don’t know what the answer is…do any of us?

We don’t even seem to be able to fix this country. Look what we’ve allowed to happen. How radicals have hijacked both parties. We accepted silly Psych 101 tactics to be used during this last election and a majority of the population fell for it. How we’ve allowed this country to be divided by political party. To the point that we’re no longer Americans. We’re now Democrats or Republicans. The silent majority in this country is just beginning to wake up to what we’ve sat back and allowed to happen. Look how long it’s taken. How much longer will it take them?

very sad how things have changed..

It is but every time I click on this post, I play the music.

Pm, I can only imagine what it must be like to see the part of world that I have intimate ties and cultural indentification with explode in such a violent way, with so much at stake and so much culture and heritage and history on the line.

It’s bad enough being an American right now, worried about where we’re going, where we’ll end up. But we aren’t fighting a bloody civil war at the moment.

If anything the Taliban reminds us of what happens when ideology and virulent religious dogma takes over reason. We’ve seen this before. The Christian faith cettainly has had it’s own bloody and horrific legacy replete with terror and witch hunts and all matter of obscene abuses.

It calls upon us all, people of goodwill, common sense and decency, to stand shoulder to shoulder and say, “No, this cannot, will not stand.”

Doesn’t matter what our faith or nationality. The word “No!” translates into all languages.

Yea, where is the outrage from within, right? I think it will come from people like Karim in that Post’s story, if they still have any voice left. But I was heartened to read that the horrified crowd rushed and shielded the cop and saved him. But the Taliban are ruthless and it will be suicidal to stand up to them and they know that. This needs a bigger intervention from organized institutions including the army to say enough is enough.

pm. I once asked you how India could help Pakistan and, with naive and almost childish innocence I suggested the sharing of business and commerce knowledge. You responded that most in the leadership in Pakistan were more focused on a future war with India and were not ready to embrace such help or cooperation. I felt emptiness when our conversation traveled to another subject, as if the middle of that thought was left missing.

I have twice read this post and you have succeeded in warmly filling in, though partly in sadness, much of that middle. Music is truly a boundless bond without boundaries of religion, politics or geography. I am by no means close to enlightened on this trial and journey of the people in that land, but I understand more tonight than I did one hour ago.

Thank you, pm, for sharing your perspective.

I have led a very sheltered life and don’t know anyone who were involved in the Independence struggle (even my parents were very young in 1947). The changes in Pakistan have to come from within.

Having seen that part of the world, I had high expectations for this country but like you say what has happened here in the last three elections is very disappointing and scary.

Thank you, Eastan.

I still have the cassette I made some 25 years ago of Amanat Ali Khan’s radio broadcast. I am an atheist and have no religion but some things are sacred in life for me and music is one. This classical music (the videos I have here don’t do justice to the real art) is also highly intellectual and even mathematical — they have to keep complex count of beats to come full circle with their improvisation and the use of lyrics. And there are many other constraints as well to make it a well rounded mental exercise.

I once saw a documentary that suggested Gandhi was against the partition of India with Pakistan as a separate state. Looks as though he was right.

Pm317 Music is what will drive out the Taliban.

Your post remindes me of a scene from “Band of Brothers where three musicians are playing Beethoven’s String Quartet in C-sharp minor, while the residents pick up the bricks and furniture of bombed out buildings.

I pray this is not in Pakistan’s future.

OH yeah, I’m a Voodoo child.

I once saw a documentary that suggested Gandhi was against the partition of India with Pakistan as a separate state. Looks as though he was right.
**********
India is has the third largest Muslim population in the world. Do Muslims living in India have any particular problems because of their religion??

I think the outrage needs to come from all people. Not just from within, where the stakes are immediate life and death, but from without, from all people who find the Taliban and other crazed ideological/religious groups anti-life, anti-human. This whole PC mindset has hobbled many people from making judgments, where judgments and criticism and whole-hearted rejection are clearly needed.

So, my comments were not criticism of the Pakistani people, per se. They’re caught in the whirlwind. We need voices from all faiths, all nationalities condemning the Taliban for what they are–criminal thugs, hiding behind religion.

noname quite identifies the way I see myself, consequently this comment could be hard, but that is much about it, no devil intentions.

The proponents of the partition must have meant well in their idea of a separate majority Muslim state

They didn’t mean well. If they had been good, many would be relating to it. I try to have a context as following :

———————————–
Early attacks from muslim kings, though it is not strictly religious wars, was different never the less.Many times it was extremely violent on defeated armies and civillians of defeated cities – cities like Nalanda, Hampi were ruined and destroyed when it got defeated. Brahmins and religious structures were attacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampi

By the time of British arrival, It was almost a tie in the sense, the mogul empire had declined, a couple of muslims kingdoms were there, couple of hindu and sikh kingdoms were there, a lot of areas were under flux.

While europeans had less of impact originally- there is record of religious prosecution in places like Goa where there was spanish(?) influence, British don’t appear to be outright hostile and destructive. They focused on gaining power through Various means. However the relationship appears to have taken a worse term in the aftermath of what is called the “Sepoy mutiny” . This is an important event of Modern India, in terms of its freedom and renewed hostility.

In Europe:-
Very less is known on the influence of India on european philosophers, Pick top 5 classical philosophers of modern era, 2/3 would have acknowledged some form of Indian philosophy – not as acknowledgment, but through understanding and their latter creations. This was called the Indology, which
had a lot of impact on europe, many were appreciative of it.

With incidents like sepoy mutiny, development social and civilization ideas in europe, there developed a group of influential british scholars who were highly hostile to India – Max Mueller is just one of them. Read a quote of Max Mueller that he wrote to his wife towards the end of the page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_M%C3%BCller

These British scholars developed a different branch of Indology, contrary to the perceptions of Voltire, Kant, Schopenhauer…I believe, Mainstream Scholars such as Hagel have burrowed a lot from India for their important work, but he didn’t have much appreciation due to what he saw as a lot of confusion, though Hagel was not as venomous as British authors such as Mills.

These are important to understand the early european conception of India, colonial scholars such as Max Mueller had a lot of impact, From writing of MaxMueller, I understand he put Hindus in a similar category as the Jews. Budhists, christians and muslims were placed separately. The Theory of “Creationism” described India in reference tro hindus – It is still popular and mainstream. We read it in terms of Aryans in our history books – and these are so popular that you would be a racist or fundamentalist if you oppose the ideas of Aryan races who swooped on India. People like MaxMueller popularized it.

At that time, administrators understood nationalism through factors such as religion, linguistics and race. This new impression about hindus – In context of freedom struggle lead by Mahatma Gandhi or in context of aftermath of Sepoy Mutiny- as multitude of races, along with muslims as people with a book tilted the balance of arguments before the colonial argument. The early Indophilia in europe was reversed . From here, there is an uphill battle for some, where as Jinnah could just jump into the Fray and managed a lot of success, Gandhi would be fighting infinite british machinations. ( To hint, Some of it would include separate electoral systems, legally binding affirmative action in allocation of Parliament seats so that majority group can’t tilt the balance of power in parliament, suggestion for arrangements on which how the majority groups can’t elect their own leader without approval from muslims and others identifying in terms of race… and such absurdities which were based on complete hostility).

The founder of Pakisthan, Mohd Jinnah was a British educated Indian, in a very short period of about one decade he managed to gain influence. It peaked just before independence. He had support of other influential british educated non-muslims, and At this point, colonial govt was not a well wisher of Gandhi. Gandhi managed to defeat many of the separatists, and then reconciled with them….But with muslims there were riots, and Gandhi lost control over the situation even though he went to riot areas. The funny thing is, if I remember it correctly, Gandhi was not very unpopular in present day Pakisthani provinces which had a mixed population then. Jinnah, an Indian from Mumbai with english education unfortunately peaked in years before the independence among muslims.

A Mediaval painting…
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Nl44M8p5lDw/SEbGK5lyBUI/AAAAAAAAAz0/Hw3A6_M3ZPk/s1600-h/14.jpg

Linked from http://www.aurangzeb.info/

The anove site has some mediaval paintings when painting was discouraged. It has a modern touch to it also. Jinnah might as well have looked to Akbar, He was presented as the modern face of mogul grandeur. With Pakisthani radicalization, Today’s hero is Aurangzeb, he is a Zinda Pir ! Economist had a good article on him, comparing him to Bhutto, many “secular progressive” historians appreciate him, we have a Major road in his name in New Delhi…. The taliban would also write good of him….This is on music…

Around 1668, Auragnzeb commanded court musicians, dancers and singers to cease performing in his presence. Further, he stopped the production of representational artwork, including the miniature painting that had reached its zenith before his rule

The taliban is against music !

An un-reviewed lengthy post, but generally the focus of the post should have been the development of colonial concept of India, development of separate religious, supposedly racial groups and in the end, somewhat spectacular success of Jinnah leading to creation of Pakisthan. The quote on Aurangzeb to illustrate further radicalization.

I had a long post, it went to spam.

Thank you pm317.

One of my favorite places to eat is a local (possibly, our one and only) Indian restaurant. Love the food and the music. All though I’m sure the piped in music is a more commercial Bollywood style version of Indian music than the lovely music played in your videos. We also like to watch Indian themed movies – The Namesake, Outsourced, a few Bollywood, Slumdog …

Do you have any movies or books you would recommend for those who enjoy the culture, and are looking to expand their limited knowledge of Indian culture and politics.

Thank you, noname. I tried to be charitable and give them the benefit of the doubt and a sliver of hope that they may have done it with a certain good intention. But even as you read MJ Akbar’s op-ed I linked, “Flawed Idea”, he shows the gradual disintegration of Jinnah’s original vision for Pakistan. I am not surprised at Jinnah’s spectacular and early rise to power. He was the Brits’ golden boy and was ready to create “mischief.” This was their way of getting back at Gandhi for humiliating them. They stood back and watched the “fun.”

I knew Auragazeb (didn’t he kill his brothers and imprison his father to rise to the throne?) was no good but he was a precursor to Taliban as evidenced by that quote. It reaffirms how dictators want full control of your everyday lives. But that was then and Taliban is now. We know so much more and capable of much more to get rid of such atrocities, hopefully.

The op-ed I linked in the beginning “A Flawed Idea” is written by an Indian Muslim writer and a journalist. Read it to the end and he gives a clue how many Indian Muslims feel today.

I would like to see Hillary and Holbrooke hit all the news shows and let the American people know how incredibly important this issue is.

Our media are bringing up the story occasionally, but they also realize that too many viewers go “Yawn,” and want them to talk about Britney Spears or whatever. We need to scare the bejesus out of people, and get them to pressure their Congressional representatives to concentrate on this crisis.

We need a far better strategy than bombing civilians from drones, Mr. Obama.

If the change and strong outcry do not come from within, what others do from the outside is not effective especially when Taliban is feeding some of the locals anti-US, anti-western message like “why are you letting Americans fight their war on your soil?” The local populace have to realize Taliban are not on their side and rise up. Of course, the international community needs to help also.

I was telling Susan earlier about this: A Pakistani physician whom I quoted in an earlier post had this message in January on his music collection page: “MUSIC KEEPS THE MULLAH AND OTHER EVIL ELEMENTS AWAY FROM YOU ~ A RAGA A DAY KEEPS THE MULLAH AWAY.”

Today he has changed his message to “MAY ALLAH SAVE US FROM THE TYRANNY & IDIOTICY OF MULLAHS.HELP PAKISTAN TO GET RID OF FANATICO-TALIBAN-WAHABI CANCER.IT’S VERY SCARY OVER HERE ~ A RAGA A DAY MAY KEEP THE MULLAH AWAY”.

Voodoo Child.. What era would that be? Funny, Teak!

Thanks, Linda, I don’t really watch much movies, Indian or otherwise.

I like the BBC production of “The Jewel in the Crown” which gives a human perspective to the class and political issues between the British and Indians and the clash between Hindu’s and Muslims, during WWII and during/after partition. I found it fascinating and have watched it several times over the years. I believe it’s available through NetFlix.

Thank you MWC

I had totally forgotten about “The Jewel in the Crown”. I watched during the original broadcast – long past time for a follow up viewing. Not too long ago caught part of a PBS or History channel show on Ghandi so will look for that documentary also.

Yes!
The changes must come from within, not imposed by military overhead genocide by misinformed do-gooders…
Obama is the snake-oil politico who lied about believing in Development and Diplomacy–while sending 20,000+ troops to start the NEW VIETNAM War!
If anybody thought Bush was a warmonger, you ain’t seen nothing yet!
And Obama is also clueless like a ventriloquist dummy…his Cheney? Wall Street!

Sorry Linda, I will take the liberty of correcting this: Ghandi Gandhi
{I know lot of people make that spelling mistake perpetuated unfortunately by some ignorant wiki writer.}

I have not seen Jewel in the Crown.. but book wise, A.L. Basham’s ‘A Cultural History of India’ is a good start, I think.

The Jurassic Era

You can also read the book, “The Jewel in the Crown” by Paul Scott.

I would sujest a book,”The Man Who Divided India” By Rafiq Zakaria-An insight into Jinnah’s leadership and its aftermath-

Just to qote a few lines from the book,”I fervently hope my book will provide not only Muslims but non-Muslims as well, an insight into Jinnh’s personality; it will show them how he mesmerised the Muslims and on the basis of their support, succeeded in dismembering the subcontinent.”

PM317 I sincerely appreciate your efforts at unity by writing this Blog