Comments on: Chrysler Bondholders Get the Shaft and GM bondholders Get the Pole http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/ Sun, 27 May 2012 07:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: irish pension funds http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1500247 irish pension funds Thu, 09 Jun 2011 11:53:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1500247 Great post...thanks for sharing it ..  i appreciate it . A irish pension fund is an entity set up to collect monies from employer and workers, invest the proceeds in securities and other assets, and pay benefits to retirees from the fund's accumulated resources. A pension fund ordinarily has an investment policy statement that describes the nature of the assets in which the pension fund can invest. Traditionally, the investment plan of a pension fund has been quite conservative, sometimes limiting its investment vehicles to government bounds  or life insurance  annuities. Great post…thanks for sharing it ..  i appreciate it . A irish pension fund is an entity set up to collect monies from employer and workers, invest the proceeds in securities and other assets, and pay benefits to retirees from the fund’s accumulated resources. A pension fund ordinarily has an investment policy statement that describes the nature of the assets in which the pension fund can invest. Traditionally, the investment plan of a pension fund has been quite conservative, sometimes limiting its investment vehicles to government bounds  or life insurance  annuities.

]]> By: Jordi http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1205133 Jordi Fri, 15 May 2009 06:26:14 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1205133 I have GM Bonds and there is no way that I will exchange them for the shares of a worthless GM run by the UAW where every three months this guys are going to request more and more benefits. Company will never come back and will be broken forever... The laws for Chapter 11th is that normally Bondholders get most of the new stock ahead of Stockholders and in Court never UAW should get more that them... Will see them there... Mr. Henderson is following the wrong advise and is making the wrong offer and I hope that he will regret and not going to be there to run the new GM... Mr. Obama, the newest friend of Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's President, a confess Communist/Socialist, but a guy that normally pays 60-80% of the companies that he sizes), is choosing to bend the Laws giving almost nothing to the Bondholders an I hope that he will find a fiery and strong opposition to his senseless plan and that the Judge in charge this time will not follow Mr. Obama and Mr. Henderson and is going to rule by USA Chapter 11th existing Laws!!!. I have GM Bonds and there is no way that I will exchange them for the shares of a worthless GM run by the UAW where every three months this guys are going to request more and more benefits. Company will never come back and will be broken forever…
The laws for Chapter 11th is that normally Bondholders get most of the new stock ahead of Stockholders and in Court never UAW should get more that them…
Will see them there…
Mr. Henderson is following the wrong advise and is making the wrong offer and I hope that he will regret and not going to be there to run the new GM…
Mr. Obama, the newest friend of Hugo Chavez, Venezuela’s President, a confess Communist/Socialist, but a guy that normally pays 60-80% of the companies that he sizes), is choosing to bend the Laws giving almost nothing to the Bondholders an I hope that he will find a fiery and strong opposition to his senseless plan and that the Judge in charge this time will not follow Mr. Obama and Mr. Henderson and is going to rule by USA Chapter 11th existing Laws!!!.

]]> By: Ms Placed Democrat » Why Do I Own A Ford? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1205099 Ms Placed Democrat » Why Do I Own A Ford? Fri, 15 May 2009 04:00:10 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1205099 [...] retiree health care trust. – Instead of letting the government give the union a huge chunk and control of the company in lieu of cash [...] [...] retiree health care trust. – Instead of letting the government give the union a huge chunk and control of the company in lieu of cash [...]

]]> By: TeakwoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1205081 TeakwoodKite Fri, 15 May 2009 03:03:41 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1205081 LisaB, Great article. Great title. As a union member who was on a "negotiating team" , the most difficult part was responding to a management desire to reduce retiree benefits. These members who paid all the dues and retired under a binding contract were not being represented at the bargaining table. There was no way I could touch it. Yet all parties have a vested interest in the outcome. At the end of this road is swap of epic proportions. LisaB, Great article. Great title.

As a union member who was on a “negotiating team” , the most difficult part was responding to a management desire to reduce retiree benefits. These members who paid all the dues and retired under a binding contract were not being represented at the bargaining table. There was no way I could touch it.

Yet all parties have a vested interest in the outcome. At the end of this road is swap of epic proportions.

]]> By: Lisabona http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1205041 Lisabona Fri, 15 May 2009 01:50:47 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1205041 Diana, we are already there. My husband is 75 years old and he is still working. The retirement money is just not enough. Food is expensive,gasoline, car payment, mortgage. And, don't forget this is just the benining. When you will retire, with God and 0 willing, you will reach 100, and still work.This are the perspectives of the next generation, if everything will go " well". The future is gloomy and insecure for all of us. Diana, we are already there. My husband is 75 years old and he is still working. The retirement money is just not enough. Food is expensive,gasoline, car payment, mortgage. And, don’t forget this is just the benining. When you will retire, with God and 0 willing, you will reach 100, and still work.This are the perspectives of the next generation, if everything will go ” well”. The future is gloomy and insecure for all of us.

]]> By: bart http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204980 bart Thu, 14 May 2009 23:42:38 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204980 I wonder if China might infer a threat in this. That would be bad. I wonder if China might infer a threat in this. That would be bad.

]]> By: foxyladi14 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204973 foxyladi14 Thu, 14 May 2009 23:29:29 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204973 it.s real scary to be old these days. it.s real scary to be old these days.

]]> By: foxyladi14 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204972 foxyladi14 Thu, 14 May 2009 23:24:46 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204972 yes.the world is watching,especially China. yes.the world is watching,especially China.

]]> By: You’re Ahead In A Ford All The Way : NO QUARTER http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204903 You’re Ahead In A Ford All The Way : NO QUARTER Thu, 14 May 2009 20:45:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204903 [...] retiree health care trust. – Instead of letting the government give the union a huge chunk and control of the company in lieu of cash [...] [...] retiree health care trust. – Instead of letting the government give the union a huge chunk and control of the company in lieu of cash [...]

]]> By: Eastan http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204899 Eastan Thu, 14 May 2009 20:34:28 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204899 BTW. LisaB. Very well done. I hope this is the last story you have to write like this. I mean I hope these two companies (and I like your coin 'chryslered') are the last to break apart in this un-fair and hurtful fashion and that the admin may realize that re-election is doomed if too many regular non-union Americans start to suffer. Or am I dreaming? BTW. LisaB. Very well done. I hope this is the last story you have to write like this. I mean I hope these two companies (and I like your coin ‘chryslered’) are the last to break apart in this un-fair and hurtful fashion and that the admin may realize that re-election is doomed if too many regular non-union Americans start to suffer. Or am I dreaming?

]]> By: Eastan http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204895 Eastan Thu, 14 May 2009 20:29:04 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204895 Answer to your second number 2: No. Answer to your first number 2: Typical retirees have no idea where their pension funds are being invested or stored. And part of the auto workers' funds are / were in various investments. Answer to number 1 (with part of 2) You / we do not know what portion of non union folks' funds were in GM. Some could have been heavy in GM. After all, people like Buffett told us years ago GM was a blue chip. Reply to Concerned Citizen above: Agreed. Even savings bonds have lost my trust. We always used to purchase bonds for all our nieces and nephews for birthdays. Not any more. Lottery tickets might be safer. Answer to your second number 2: No.
Answer to your first number 2: Typical retirees have no idea where their pension funds are being invested or stored. And part of the auto workers’ funds are / were in various investments.
Answer to number 1 (with part of 2) You / we do not know what portion of non union folks’ funds were in GM. Some could have been heavy in GM. After all, people like Buffett told us years ago GM was a blue chip.

Reply to Concerned Citizen above: Agreed. Even savings bonds have lost my trust. We always used to purchase bonds for all our nieces and nephews for birthdays. Not any more. Lottery tickets might be safer.

]]> By: Diana L. C. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204893 Diana L. C. Thu, 14 May 2009 20:17:28 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204893 To me, it's the mixed messages American workers get as a whole that is the problem. You have people counting on SS who should probably not be counting on it much. So some have gone ahead and purchased IRA's and 401k plans in addition. You have others working union plans, and you have many working under government employee plans--many of which are invested in Wall Street. Bush wanted to do away with SS and encourage EVERYONE to get IRAs and build 401k accounts. O seems to want to do away with those who have IRAs and 401k plans and get us to all join unions (which he can then subsume under THE PARTY). What's a person to do if he or she is old enough and tired enough and just wants to spend a few last years getting some rest? If you worried about Bush, you took a step in one direction, only to find you are now being punished by the new POTUS for that move. Is retirement going to be a thing of the past? In my grandparents' day there were no retirement funds really. When you got old enough and tired enough not to have to work anymore, you found you were the head of large extended farm families, and you could count on living out your last days with family, helping to raise the grandchildren, etc., while your younger family members took care of you when you got sick. That is just not possible now. I am afraid we will soon have old people dying at their desks or work stations because they can't ever afford to quit working. To me, it’s the mixed messages American workers get as a whole that is the problem. You have people counting on SS who should probably not be counting on it much. So some have gone ahead and purchased IRA’s and 401k plans in addition. You have others working union plans, and you have many working under government employee plans–many of which are invested in Wall Street.

Bush wanted to do away with SS and encourage EVERYONE to get IRAs and build 401k accounts. O seems to want to do away with those who have IRAs and 401k plans and get us to all join unions (which he can then subsume under THE PARTY). What’s a person to do if he or she is old enough and tired enough and just wants to spend a few last years getting some rest? If you worried about Bush, you took a step in one direction, only to find you are now being punished by the new POTUS for that move. Is retirement going to be a thing of the past?

In my grandparents’ day there were no retirement funds really. When you got old enough and tired enough not to have to work anymore, you found you were the head of large extended farm families, and you could count on living out your last days with family, helping to raise the grandchildren, etc., while your younger family members took care of you when you got sick. That is just not possible now.

I am afraid we will soon have old people dying at their desks or work stations because they can’t ever afford to quit working.

]]> By: Caffeine http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204884 Caffeine Thu, 14 May 2009 19:51:32 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204884 3 Points: 1. For the UAW retirees, their pension is probably the major part of their retirement plan. Whereas, for the other people, their interest in GM or Chrysler is just a small part of a mutual fund which is just a small part of their retirement plan. 2. When people invest in stocks or bonds they know their value could go up or down. Whereas, a pension, is supposed to be there no matter what happens to the stock market or the bond market. 2. If the car companies don't keep their commitment to the pension fund, doesn't the government assume that liability? 3 Points:

1. For the UAW retirees, their pension is probably the major part of their retirement plan. Whereas, for the other people, their interest in GM or Chrysler is just a small part of a mutual fund which is just a small part of their retirement plan.

2. When people invest in stocks or bonds they know their value could go up or down. Whereas, a pension, is supposed to be there no matter what happens to the stock market or the bond market.

2. If the car companies don’t keep their commitment to the pension fund, doesn’t the government assume that liability?

]]> By: Aaron Kramer http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204878 Aaron Kramer Thu, 14 May 2009 19:42:01 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204878 The next thing they plan on doing is taking EVERYONES IRA and 401K and giving you an government annuity yielding 3% per year. The reason being thrown around is that the stock market and bonds are unreliable. Just imagine a bank robber taking money from the bank and then opening his own and telling those he robbed to deposit their new funds at his institution. The slogan will be "Your money is safe with me because I know how to rob other banks." Our country is collapsing and this will end violently because it always does. The next thing they plan on doing is taking EVERYONES IRA and 401K and giving you an government annuity yielding 3% per year. The reason being thrown around is that the stock market and bonds are unreliable. Just imagine a bank robber taking money from the bank and then opening his own and telling those he robbed to deposit their new funds at his institution. The slogan will be “Your money is safe with me because I know how to rob other banks.” Our country is collapsing and this will end violently because it always does.

]]> By: Concerned Citizen http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24534/chrysler-bondholders-get-the-shaft-and-gm-bondholders-get-the-pole/#comment-1204875 Concerned Citizen Thu, 14 May 2009 19:24:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24534#comment-1204875 The lessons of Chrysler and GM will not be forgotten by those investors who also own bonds like U.S. Treasuries. If Obama is willing to throw the rule of law under the bus to benefit his UAW constituents, what would he do to investors in U.S. Treasuries? The world is watching. You've been warned. The lessons of Chrysler and GM will not be forgotten by those investors who also own bonds like U.S. Treasuries.

If Obama is willing to throw the rule of law under the bus to benefit his UAW constituents, what would he do to investors in U.S. Treasuries?

The world is watching. You’ve been warned.

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