Comments on: Science, Industry, and You http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/ Sun, 27 May 2012 07:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: lorac http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206517 lorac Tue, 19 May 2009 05:26:17 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206517 But Portia, I think you're talking about what we would call an efficacy study - which is done in the lab. Many drugs or procedures work well during efficacy studies (when all extraneous variables are ruled out), but not so well during effectiveness studies (out in the real world). But the point I meant to make is about psychological medicine -the lab people are in contact with the patients. While neither knows which med the patient is taking, both can be clued in by the changed behavior of the patient, and the tech's reaction to the knowledge may affect how well s/he carries out the rest of the study, which confounds its internal validity. You can be left with results not so clear now, because confounding variables may have interacted with the experimental treatment to produce the final effect. But Portia, I think you’re talking about what we would call an efficacy study – which is done in the lab. Many drugs or procedures work well during efficacy studies (when all extraneous variables are ruled out), but not so well during effectiveness studies (out in the real world).

But the point I meant to make is about psychological medicine -the lab people are in contact with the patients. While neither knows which med the patient is taking, both can be clued in by the changed behavior of the patient, and the tech’s reaction to the knowledge may affect how well s/he carries out the rest of the study, which confounds its internal validity. You can be left with results not so clear now, because confounding variables may have interacted with the experimental treatment to produce the final effect.

]]> By: TeakwoodKite http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206512 TeakwoodKite Tue, 19 May 2009 04:55:27 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206512 Great art and great points Pat.\ (my best Homer voice) Mmmmmm-Medical Beeeer. Great art and great points Pat.\

(my best Homer voice) Mmmmmm-Medical Beeeer.

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206388 Docelder Mon, 18 May 2009 23:05:51 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206388 I seriously doubt most hospital administrators could run a pig farm and actually make a profit. You can't charge $1000 a day per head rental on the hog pens. The government could make a single payer system work. If I were in charge of doing it, I would look hard at expanding Medicare and the VA. Get to training doctors and nurses now, expand training and give free scholarships to students in exchange for 10 years of public service for nurses and 20 years for doctors. Plan for 10 years from now to have a totally functioning government system using the private system today as a bridge. This gives private companies 10 years to plan ahead, maybe to sell out to the government, or contract with them and the government 10 years to get it together to take control. In the interim, pass legislation mandating providers accept immediately the government reimbursement for care given every government subscriber. Grant every person having insurance today or not the right to basic government care at reduced cost, not completely free regardless of income level there needs to be some cost for using the system. This creates the single payer system using the providers we already have today. For providers, there are no options, play nice or give up your license to practice. It's a free country after all. Maybe I might make BHO look like a choir boy in doing so, but I know this could be made to work. I seriously doubt most hospital administrators could run a pig farm and actually make a profit. You can’t charge $1000 a day per head rental on the hog pens. The government could make a single payer system work. If I were in charge of doing it, I would look hard at expanding Medicare and the VA. Get to training doctors and nurses now, expand training and give free scholarships to students in exchange for 10 years of public service for nurses and 20 years for doctors. Plan for 10 years from now to have a totally functioning government system using the private system today as a bridge. This gives private companies 10 years to plan ahead, maybe to sell out to the government, or contract with them and the government 10 years to get it together to take control. In the interim, pass legislation mandating providers accept immediately the government reimbursement for care given every government subscriber. Grant every person having insurance today or not the right to basic government care at reduced cost, not completely free regardless of income level there needs to be some cost for using the system. This creates the single payer system using the providers we already have today. For providers, there are no options, play nice or give up your license to practice. It’s a free country after all. Maybe I might make BHO look like a choir boy in doing so, but I know this could be made to work.

]]> By: foxyladi14 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206383 foxyladi14 Mon, 18 May 2009 22:32:28 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206383 good article Pat.. good article Pat..

]]> By: foxyladi14 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206380 foxyladi14 Mon, 18 May 2009 22:28:52 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206380 the gov.isn't fit to run a pig farm. the gov.isn’t fit to run a pig farm.

]]> By: ces http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206352 ces Mon, 18 May 2009 20:11:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206352 The medicorps are good at fixing what THEY want to fix (ie, what's profitable). They want us to take things DAILY, not fix-it-and-forget-it. It is for this reason I don't trust anyone beyond my primary care physician. The medicorps are good at fixing what THEY want to fix (ie, what’s profitable).

They want us to take things DAILY, not fix-it-and-forget-it. It is for this reason I don’t trust anyone beyond my primary care physician.

]]> By: Animal Control http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206349 Animal Control Mon, 18 May 2009 20:05:49 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206349 Again I concur, Many of commenter's today are on the same page (mind) literary speaking and glad to see it. There may be hope for us yet! Again I concur,
Many of commenter’s today are on the same page (mind) literary speaking and glad to see it.
There may be hope for us yet!

]]> By: Animal Control http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206346 Animal Control Mon, 18 May 2009 20:00:46 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206346 Pat, in my haste to comment on comments it's occurred to me how appropriate and revealing of your visual commentary--actually says it all in this proffit driven age. Pat, in my haste to comment on comments it’s occurred to me how appropriate and revealing of your visual commentary–actually says it all in this proffit driven age.

]]> By: Animal Control http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206344 Animal Control Mon, 18 May 2009 19:56:39 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206344 Good one! <strong>Would we have had a vacine for polio in this Drug Company profit motivated Culture.</strong> Good one!

Would we have had a vacine for polio in this Drug Company profit motivated Culture.

]]> By: Animal Control http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206341 Animal Control Mon, 18 May 2009 19:52:55 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206341 I agree <blockquote>Health care should be looked upon as a necessity for quality life itself</blockquote> The founders included the words <strong>"Promote the general welfare"</strong> in the Preamble to our Constitution. Different words, same meaning. IMO I agree

Health care should be looked upon as a necessity for quality life itself

The founders included the words “Promote the general welfare” in the Preamble to our Constitution.

Different words, same meaning. IMO

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206340 Docelder Mon, 18 May 2009 19:46:46 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206340 Yes, that is right. The money is in the patents and it is all about the money right now. Drug companies aren't looking for the easiest cures or treatments. They are looking for that next patentable chemical compound or the process for mass producing it. Drug companies extract molecules from natural plants, and test those compounds. They do this because the molecules extracted from the plants and the method to mass produce them will be patentable. Meanwhile they belittle the natural plants themselves, because they are from nature and not patentable. Where there is no money, there is no medicine. I am nobody's socialist generally. In this case, call me a comrade because I really believe a centralized and efficiently operated government backed system could run circles around what we currently have. Yes, that is right. The money is in the patents and it is all about the money right now. Drug companies aren’t looking for the easiest cures or treatments. They are looking for that next patentable chemical compound or the process for mass producing it. Drug companies extract molecules from natural plants, and test those compounds. They do this because the molecules extracted from the plants and the method to mass produce them will be patentable. Meanwhile they belittle the natural plants themselves, because they are from nature and not patentable. Where there is no money, there is no medicine. I am nobody’s socialist generally. In this case, call me a comrade because I really believe a centralized and efficiently operated government backed system could run circles around what we currently have.

]]> By: Portia Elizabeth http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206336 Portia Elizabeth Mon, 18 May 2009 19:37:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206336 LOL! Is it any wonder some scientists have a reputation as f**ked-up misanthropes? I knew of one who injected beta-mercaptoethanol into the car (through the gasket around the door) of her nemesis. (For those not in science, 2ME is one of the strongest, worst smells ever and impossible to get rid of.) I guess the message here is don't piss off a science nerd. LOL! Is it any wonder some scientists have a reputation as f**ked-up misanthropes?

I knew of one who injected beta-mercaptoethanol into the car (through the gasket around the door) of her nemesis. (For those not in science, 2ME is one of the strongest, worst smells ever and impossible to get rid of.)

I guess the message here is don’t piss off a science nerd.

]]> By: ziggy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206330 ziggy Mon, 18 May 2009 19:11:12 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206330 There's another profit-related bias affecting research: <strong>Money generally isn't available to conduct studies of promising therapies unless they revolve around a patentable new drug</strong>. This probably the main reason why formal clinical studies aren't being conducted on the use of dichloroacetate (DCA) in the treatment of cancer. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10971 There’s another profit-related bias affecting research: Money generally isn’t available to conduct studies of promising therapies unless they revolve around a patentable new drug.

This probably the main reason why formal clinical studies aren’t being conducted on the use of dichloroacetate (DCA) in the treatment of cancer.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10971

]]> By: layla http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206323 layla Mon, 18 May 2009 18:46:24 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206323 I doubt a cure for cancer will ever be allowed to be discovered. The horrible chemo treatment is keeping all the drug companies rich. They get much richer by treating it than by curing it! I doubt a cure for cancer will ever be allowed to be discovered. The horrible chemo treatment is keeping all the drug companies rich. They get much richer by treating it than by curing it!

]]> By: Docelder http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/24655/science-industry-and-you/#comment-1206321 Docelder Mon, 18 May 2009 18:36:13 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=24655#comment-1206321 Yep, and I am not trying to pick fights here. I like wodie's comments, and agree with them most of the time. But to quote that quote, and in the same paragraph say our system is the "best". Yes, our system is that quote and it does sum it up nicely. It is money driven and is just a business. I am not against money or business, not at all. Neither of these belong in health care. Health care should be looked upon as a necessity for quality life itself... the same as clean air water and food... then health care. We need to quit seeing this as a business. I cringe every time somebody says health care is 16% of our economy. They say it like that is a good thing. It is not, that means we spend 16% of our economy on something the government could do for all of us for a lot less. Yep, and I am not trying to pick fights here. I like wodie’s comments, and agree with them most of the time. But to quote that quote, and in the same paragraph say our system is the “best”. Yes, our system is that quote and it does sum it up nicely. It is money driven and is just a business. I am not against money or business, not at all. Neither of these belong in health care. Health care should be looked upon as a necessity for quality life itself… the same as clean air water and food… then health care. We need to quit seeing this as a business. I cringe every time somebody says health care is 16% of our economy. They say it like that is a good thing. It is not, that means we spend 16% of our economy on something the government could do for all of us for a lot less.

]]>