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The CIA, America’s Scapegoat

Who started the AIDS virus? The CIA. Who killed Kennedy? The CIA. Who caused the heartbreak of psoriasis? The CIA of course. And who started the war in Iraq? The CIA. Of course, while the CIA was misleading the Congress into the quagmire of Iraq, the CIA, in the person of Valerie Plame, was busy sabotaging the Administration’s effort to lead us into the quagmire (in reality Valerie was Chief of Ops for the Iraq Task Force and developed extensive sources that ended up reinforcing other reports that Saddam had not revived his effort to build chemical, biological and nuclear weapons).

Do we have this straight? The CIA promoted and opposed the war in Iraq.

HUH?

If your head is spinning, welcome to the reality of the CIA. I discovered the reality of CIA scapegoating back in 1986 when I began working as the Honduran analyst just as the Iran-Contra scandal broke.

Lest you think I am making up my previous work at the CIA, here is one of the Exceptional Performance Awards I received during my last year at the Agency:

exceptional-performance-award

I learned at the CIA that political leaders who are invested in a particular policy do not like to hear bad news from the intel community. It is probably helpful at this point to help you understand that the CIA is not a monolith. The two principal arms of the CIA, at least during the run up to the war with Iraq, are Ops and Analysis. Ops refers to CIA case officers who go overseas and recruit foreigners who will be our agents (note, an agent is a foreigner who has agreed to be a traitor to their country or cause). The Ops side of the house collects intelligence and carries out covert operations. Almost all of the people who work on the Ops side of the house are undercover. Valerie Plame, for example, spent her career as an Ops officer and was undercover the entire time.

The Analysis side of the house, at least in the pre-DNI days, had the primary task of analyzing the raw intelligence and keeping policymakers informed about existing and developing threats. During my career I spent about one year working on the Ops side of the house and the rest working as an analyst. Most of the analysts are not undercover. However, because I was a member of the Career Trainee program and trained with Operations officers I was undercover until I left the CIA in October 1989.

I discovered that the CIA is a convenient whipping boy when a controversial policy runs into problems. During the Vietnam War CIA analysts (Sam Adams and George Allen) received enormous pressure from Lyndon Johnson’s White House for not cheerleading the Administration’s policy in Vietnam. They were accuse of “not being team players.”

I experienced the same phenomena during the Contra war. We were under pressure to exaggerate Soviet influence, terrorist activity in Central America and Contra capabilities. The efforts to manipulate intelligence were strong but generally, CIA managers resisted efforts to shade intelligence analysis to create a message the White House wanted to hear.

So now we have a leader of the Democrats accusing the CIA of lying. Of course she is accusing Ops officers of not telling her that waterboarding was on the table for interrogating terrorist suspects. So what happened? Based on folks I know who worked there at the time here’s what went down:

In the immediate aftermath of the 9-11 attacks George Tenet sent a message to the Ops side of the house detailing a variety of ways the “gloves” should come off, but nobody was getting waterboarded or tortured. The CIA was too busy trying to get control of the situation in Afghanistan.

By January 2002 the CIA was getting more terrorist suspects off the battlefield of Afghanistan and was struggling to figure out how to interrogate them. The CIA and its officers–Ops and Analysts alike–are not trained as interrogators nor did the CIA have an interrogation course at the time. Ops officers are trained to recruit people through friendship, not the threat of violence. Analysts rarely are taken to the field and given a chance to debrief a living, breathing human source. Accordingly the CIA reached outside to contractors–guys with military experience–to find people who had been trained as interrogators. Why? Because the military does train interrogators and has a specific program of instruction for such activity.

When I went thru the hostage interrogation course in CIA (i.e., we were taken hostage and subjected to many of the so-called “enhanced interrogation” methods) the “terrorists” were military personnel who were going thru their own training program as interrogators.

As Jane Mayer shows conclusively in her book, The Dark Side, the people who brought the waterboarding and other messages to the CIA were involved previously in training U.S. military personnel to resist interrogation (i.e., SERE School).

The decision at CIA to use waterboarding was signed off on ultimately by CIA Director, George Tenet, and the Director of Operations, James Pavitt. Other people likely consulted in this decision were Cofer Black, head of the Counter Terrorism Center, and the head of the Office of General Counsel at CIA.

Here is a critical unanswered question–the CIA captured Abu Zubaydah in March 2002 but did not do any substantive interrogation until September 2002? What happened to the frigging “ticking” time bomb theory? We have heard Cheney and other supporters of the Bush Administration insist that by God, we got to waterboard or Americans will die. Yet the Department of Justice did not issue its legal opinion authorizing/excusing waterboarding until August 2002. Those guys waited, apparently, five months to put the screws to Zubaydah.

Here’s what George Tenet wrote in his book (see p. 241):

Now that we had an undoubted resource in our hands–the highest-ranking al-Qa’ida official catured to ate–we opened discussions within the National Security Council as to how to handle him, since holding and interrogating large numbers of al-Qa’ida operatives had never been part of our plan. But Zubaydah and a small number of other extremely highly placed terrorists potentially had information that might save thousands of lives. We wondered what we could legitimately do to get that information. Despite what Hollywood might have you believe, in situations like this you don’t call in the tough guys; you call in the lawyers. It took until August to get clear guidance on what Agency officers could legally do. Without such legal determinations from the Department of Justice, our officers would have been a risk for future second-guessing.

We know from Ali Soufan, an FBI agent, that he was able to question Zubaydah without the use of torture from March until June of 2002 and got results:

Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned him from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence.

We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. Abu Zubaydah also told us about Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber. This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives.

There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process.

Why was August 2002 so important? As Larry Wilkerson pointed out earlier today, in a a piece first posted at Steve Clemens’ site, the impetus for waterboarding Zubaydah was not preventing terrorism, it was a frantic effort to prove the false premise that Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were in cahoots. They were not, but with the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq set to hit the streets in October 2002, the pressure was on by the White House to persuade the Congress that we needed to go to war with Iraq.

It was at the end of 2002 when the CIA briefed Congress on the Iraq NIE that they told them there was NO EVIDENCE that Iraq was trying to acquire yellow cake uranium from Niger. What was left? Getting evidence to convince folks of the Saddam/Osama hook.

Here is what is so bizarre about this timeline. When you go thru Hostage Interrogation Resistance training the very first lesson is to delay giving up information. You want to string it out as long as possible. Why? The more time that passes from the time you are taken into custody until you cough up the goods the more time your parent organization has to alter plans and do damage control. Here’s the truth about Abu Zubaydah–after five months in custody his “current” intel value was exhausted and not very relevant.

I think Nancy Pelosi is in big trouble. Panetta threw down the gauntlet today in a message to the troops at Headquarters:

“Let me be clear: It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress. That is against our laws and our values. As the Agency indicated previously in response to Congressional inquiries, our contemporaneous records from September 2002 indicate that CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, describing “the enhanced techniques that had been employed.” Ultimately, it is up to Congress to evaluate all the evidence and reach its own conclusions about what happened.”

I do not think Congress wants to play this game–i.e., put everyone under oath and find out the truth. As I noted at the outset, the CIA is not a perfect organization but when it comes to covering its ass when it is being asked to do things that skirt the law they are very good and they make sure they have a group photo. You don’t make up lies about members of Congress who have free access to the press. If you are going to do some sheep fucking with members of congress make sure you have a happy snap of naked Nancy and Randy the Ram. Otherwise you get to be the scapegoat.

  • chmoore

    In this escalating game of fingerpointing, it sounds like the “classified” stamp may have an achilles heel.

    Personally I would like to see a serious investigation, not a witch hunt, and not a dumping of shit downhill on the OPS; but rather, focused on those at and/or near the top of the executive branch who authorized the policy.

    And the consequences? I’m in no position to recommend sentencing, but there should be a definite goal set in terms of preventing a repeat of rationalization of torture.

  • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

    Isn’t lying to congress a federal offense that includes jail time? If Pelosi is serious then we can expect congress to bring of up charges of lying to congress, right? Otherwise Pelosi looks like a big blowhard.

    What’s funnier is watching the Dailykooks bending over backwards to defend her. Boy, that site that has lost all of it’s intellectual honesty and integrity.

  • Adam

    It really does feel like the CIA is always responsible for any failures in and out of the intel community. I really respect those guys like you Larry, the ones that do all the work and ask for none of the credit. A job well done is quite enough.

    Still, how come the NSA never screws up? Is this just a tradition?

  • Ellen D

    recent MI5 recruitment ad: “See all your best work go unnoticed!”

  • J.J. (The P.U.M.A.)

    The CIA is a convenient scapegoat, because they are by their nature secretive, and are also engaged in things that make sense at the time, but look bad on paper years later.

    Two questions for your, Larry.

    Would you not agree that Barky has been a little bit of a positive surprise in CIA/Military matters as of late?

    Do you think that George W. Bush’s father worked for your former employer?

  • Objective Analysis

    Pelosi and Obama are playing a very dangerous game here to appease the Left. You don’t f*** with the Lords of Hell, You don’t f*** with the babysitter (AKA Adventurers of Babysitting movie in 1980′s) and you DON’T F*** WITH THE CIA.

    You will be here today and gone tomorrow.

  • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

    One of my absolute favorite movies.

    Perhaps another line that would be appropriate for Nancy Pelosi:

    “No one gets out of here without singing the blues.”

  • Ellen D

    Like most companies the very top (appointed) management is not as reliable as the lower levels who have worked their way up and know what is really going on.
    I’d trust the bottom and middle but I don’t trust anything George Tenet says.

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    thank you Larry,this piece helped me to understand things better.
    and congratulations on your award..

  • http://! stodgie

    nancy is in over her head. i keep remembering the “speech” she gave before the first tarp vote. she knows how to screw it up but not how to make it work. a hillary could do it but not this woman.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Nancy is toast.

    Great post.

  • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

    hell no. He employed John Brennan as his top Counter Terrorism advisor. Brennan got his promotion for his briefings of VP Cheney on the torture stuff. The fix for protecting the CIA is in.

    Bush senior was never a CIA officer, but he was the Director of the CIA.

  • Objective Analysis

    LOL! Agree.

  • Objective Analysis

    Oh, another movie reference: American Gangster

    The Mom says to the lead gangster “you don’t kill cops, even I know that”

    Same thing applies to Pelosi, you don’t mess with people that can KILL YOU OR HAVE YOU KILLED.

  • Ani

    I personally think they lost all intellectual honesty and integrity as soon as they tried to make a case that Obama was great and Hillary was the anti-Christ.

  • oowawa

    It seems to me that the CIA is at a great disadvantage when it comes to defending charges hurled against it. The agency has got to be able to keep secrets, and anything it says in its own defense could possibly betray sensitive information. For example: what was the actual damage caused by “outing” Valerie Plame’s identity? How is it possible to even talk about that without causing further damage to CIA operatives and betraying secret information? Anyway, speaking as a clueless outsider, that’s the way it seems to me.

  • Docelder

    Biden’s remarks about us being safer than during the Bush years aside… if something were to happen, Obama doesn’t want to be seen holding hands with the ACLU or Pelosi on this one. He wants to be seen shouldering up to his CIA. Pelosi is expendable, and is about to get a ride on the ejector seat on the Obama bus.

  • Mercedes

    There is usually no way for the average person on the street to judge who is telling the truth and who is lying in these kinds of situations using details, circumstances, personal claims, etc. Who knows? But I do know that after winning the House of Representatives in 2006, the Democrats did nothing to challenge anything about the Bush/Cheney administration. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing…and worse yet, nothing in these matters seems to have changed now. So what are these people arguing about?

    There are a couple of new TV shows this year that have story lines around psychologists who use various clinical-type methods to analyze people’s veracity. I think it would be interesting to apply those methods objectively, of course, to this situation.

  • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

    That is so true.

    Nancy’s journey to this point began when she abandoned honesty in favor of winning at any cost. The lies surrounding Obama will not go away. She is forever linked with corruption.

  • Mandelay

    I knew about the AIDS virus and JFK, but psoriasis? Sorry …
    Your anger is right on the money, Larry … why should the CIA be the scapegoat for a multitude of sins committed by so many others? I felt Panetta was throwing the agency to the Congressional wolves when he said that Congress would evaluate in the end. Will Congress go ahead and hold the hearings? Who will be invited and who will be shut out? Which group photos will be presented and which will be misplaced? Whatever happens, I see Obama entering the fray as the great peacemaker, calling on all sides to cease their fighting and get behind his leadership. He will use this in his never-ending marketing campaign.

  • Diana L. C.

    Do I assume then that Bush senior might have played a big part in putting some pressure on to “exaggerate Soviet influence”? I’ve always suspected that was the case, anyway.

    Torture is wrong, always has been, always will be. That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it!

    But I do want it to be made clear that our country should also stick to that opinion.

  • arran

    “A Few Good Men” –

    Kaffee: “I want the truth!”

    Jessup: “You (Pelosi*) can’t handle the truth!”

    *
    You could substitute Cheney, Bush, some Congress members or media names here.

  • Diana L. C.

    Mercedes,

    I agree. I don’t understand what Pelosi is trying to accomplish by accusing the CIA of lying.

    On the other hand, I want a much more firmly worded statement from the WH about torture. I know he says we won’t use it, but I want him also to explain why–that it does not work and did not work.

    I do not want to see Cheney’s face on t.v. ever again saying it did. I will always believe that Rove/Cheney were responsible for outing Plame. They should be considered national villains.

  • Andy

    Panetta’s statement today. He’s calling Pelosi et al. out about their claims CIA misled them.

    http://thepage.time.com/panetta-statement-to-cia-staff-on-interrogation-briefings/

    Panetta Statement to CIA Staff on Interrogation Briefings
    Message from the Director: Turning Down the Volume

    There is a long tradition in Washington of making political hay out of our business. It predates my service with this great institution, and it will be around long after I’m gone. But the political debates about interrogation reached a new decibel level yesterday when the CIA was accused of misleading Congress.
    Let me be clear: It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress. That is against our laws and our values. As the Agency indicated previously in response to Congressional inquiries, our contemporaneous records from September 2002 indicate that CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, describing “the enhanced techniques that had been employed.” Ultimately, it is up to Congress to evaluate all the evidence and reach its own conclusions about what happened.
    My advice—indeed, my direction—to you is straightforward: ignore the noise and stay focused on your mission. We have too much work to do to be distracted from our job of protecting this country.
    We are an Agency of high integrity, professionalism, and dedication. Our task is to tell it like it is—even if that’s not what people always want to hear. Keep it up. Our national security depends on it.

  • Andy

    oops… I didn’t realize LJ had linked to the whole Panetta statement post already. Sorry for the repetition.

  • James Guglielmino

    Funny about Pelosi, she isn’t liked much by many liberals and she is really hated by the wingnuts. Would she be dumb enough to lie? Well, she has stated her case rather emphatically but not many in the MSM seem unimpressed. Panetta is Obama’s guy. What’s a liberal to do? I have a better question. What is the CIA going to do about Bob Grahmm, who kept such meticulous notes that when he asked for dates of his supposed briefing, the CIA gave him FOUR and he went back to his notebook and found ONE. The topic had nothing to do with waterboarding. So,of course, he confirmed that with the CIA and asked them WTF???? The answer: Yup, you’re right, Bob. No explanation for how’s come the “mistake.” So, why not focus on that instead of on Nancy?
    Personally, I’m for swearing the bunch of the bastards in and prosecuting the ones found to have perpetrated torture, kicking out or otherwise punishing all of those who KNEW and said nada…Start with the “good” Senator Roberts, please.
    Oh, Senator Grahmm on “the irony of it:”The irony,” said Graham, “is that the whole series of events in late September of ’02 were concurrent with the CIA’s release of the first classified version of the National Intelligence Estimate, which was one of the key factors that led me to vote against the war in Iraq because I thought that their case was so weak. And they were making to the public these very bold statements about how we were in extreme danger if we didn’t move quickly to eradicate Saddam Hussein. The whole, ‘a smoking gun may appear in the form of a mushroom cloud’ kind of argument.”

  • CG

    I have much respect for you Larry. I have NO respect for Congress and Pelosi, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Osama, Obama, Saddam, Armadinejad, al-Qa’ida or George Tenet. I am guessing there are mostly really good and honorable people in the CIA, and a few bad apples, as you have pointed out from time to time, who put a stain on the good name and good work. Thank you for taking the time to explain the workings of the CIA; it is very informative. I especially appreciate you making the point of the bizarre timeline of Abu Zubaydah’s interrogation.

    It is sad that the CIA is an easy scapegoat. One thing we know about the Cheney-Bush administration though, is the extreme (perhaps way over the top) pressure they were exerting on the CIA, the inspectors, and others, to make the case that the US needed to invade Iraq, and the justification would be weapons of mass destruction and the connection of Saddam to Osama, false though they were. With that kind of pressure, people were pushed to make a case for something that was clearly not truthful or engage in conduct that demeans us. What is the true story behind the intelligence information given by Tenet to Cheney-Bush, as desperation set in to make a case to go to war in Iraq? To this day, Cheney and Bush have made everyone else scapegoats, and have never taken adequate responsibility for the lies they told or the harm they caused. So many have taken the fall to protect Cheney-Bush’s rationale to fight the war on terror in Iraq, oh the list is really long…

    There is no excuse for the scapegoating of the CIA by Pelosi, Congress or Cheney-Bush. Wasn’t it the CIA that gave crack to the poor in urban settings — just teasing.

  • Benjamin

    I think Pelosi definitely went off of her prepared text when she launched her little attack on the CIA. It appeared to be a desperate Hail Mary.

    It is amazing to check out some of the Dems. All of them focus solely on the republicans. They say it was the republicans who singled out Pelosi and did this to her. It’s incredible that none of them will acknowledge Obama’s role in all of this – and the evidence is right in front of their faces.

    Granted, the republicans are enjoying watching the Pelosi meltdown, and they are gleefully piling on. But it’s not the republicans who are releasing CIA memos. Barack Obama is the reason she is out there twisting in the wind.

    What is it with these Dems? Are they too stupid to comprehend how all of this has gone down? Are they in some kind of weird denial so that they can’t see the things that Obama does? Are they afraid to admit that their guy just might be ruthless enough to takedown dear Nancy?

  • ConfusedAmerican

    Right now Im just reeling from all the finger pointing going on under Obama’s administration. Sometimes I wonder if I’m watching Romper Room or what. Strange but even the voters that put this group into office are wondering what type of immature idiots are running the ship…Its like we are on some Pre-School Cruise and all the adults have deserted ship.
    Obama has not faced up to anything he had said, done or caused, especially while in Office.. Most of the Dems are still blaming the Bush administration for anything and everything that is happening now.
    Believe it or not most Americans are not accepting the Bush type excuses anymore. Most Americans are starting to realize that unlike his campaign promises Obama and the people around him dont have a clue about what he is doing. Many are feeling and realizing that Obama is just some type of telepromter Puppet who cant even speak for himself.

    The Dems need to stop playing the blame game. The Dems need to start working on Fixing America instead of screwing up and dividing America. And just maybe the Dems might think about giving Obama some brains.

  • ConfusedAmerican

    Got a comment in the spinner — can someone retrieve it.

  • Prem

    Good comment, CG—exactly what I was thinking abou t this mess. Pelosi was speaking in mutterings at the press conference—telltale signs of lying? She should have emphasized your statements, CG, about how much pressure the Bush/Cheney administration via George Tenet was being put on the CIA. She erred, or really screwed up, in blaming the CIA directly, even though their reports could have been severely tainted by Bush & Cheney to create the reason to go to war with Iraq & the necessity to use enhanced interrogation techniques (torture).

    Those times after 9/11 were confusing, angering, the Dems. did not want to look weak on national security, including doing whatever it takes to get information about the perpetrators of the attacks on the WTC.

    Bush and Cheney lied and used, abused, manipulated every possible branch of our government to push for war with Iraq. Political leaders who were opposed to the war were demonized and criticized as being weak and every bit of dirt was being used against them in order to co-erce them into supporting the Bush/Cheney agenda.

    Pelosi and most of the other Dems. were weak against most of the pro-war Repubs., but what is happening now is what happens when you don’t defend, stand up for and express your core principles. I haven’t respected her for years now, especially after she trashed Hillary, and ooh-ed and ahh-ed over BHO, but it looks like she might be joining others that have been used by BHO under the BHO Bus.

    BHO is good at using people and then getting rid of them when they are no longer of use to him. Seems like some type of karmic backlash could be coming his way, however.

  • aeguy

    Because the NSA is full of engineering nerds like me. ;)

  • ghshaeha

    Hitler’s Program Has Been Revived by the Obama Administration
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    LPACTV: Repeal the HMO System NOW!

    May 14, 2009 (LPAC)—What would you think about a scholarly article entitled: “What Are the Potential Cost Savings from Legalizing Physician-Assisted Suicide?” If you knew no more than the title, you might wonder if it was written by the grandaddy of British utilitarianism, Jeremy Bentham; or perhaps by LSD-pervert Aldous Huxley; or by Nazi doctor Karl Brandt.

    Good guesses… but wrong.

    This is the title of a 1998 paper co-authored by Ezekiel Emanuel, a leading adviser to Budget Director Peter Orszag and a member of President Obama’s elite 15-person Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Council is charged by the Obama administration with preparing the list of which medical procedures will henceforth be permitted, and which not, with an eye to cutting $2 trillion from health care payments—to be handed over to the bankrupt hedge funds and banks which run the HMOs.

    Brandt, Goerring, and Hitler himself have nothing on these modern Nazis. Ezekiel Emanuel’s co-author of the mentioned paper, Margaret Battin—like Emanuel, a bio-ethicist—has written other papers with sick titles like “The Least Worst Death: Selective Refusal of Treatment”; “Terminal Sedation: Pulling the Sheet Over Our Eyes”; and “Assisted Suicide: Can We Learn From Germany?” Is this any different than Hitler’s doctor Karl Brandt’s defense of euthanasia at Nuremberg: “Death can mean deliverance. Death is life—just as much as birth. It was never meant to be murder.”

    And don’t forget that, among the means identified at Nuremberg as causing the “murder and ill-treatment of Civilian Populations” was the “inadequate provision of surgical and medical services” — exactly the policies being imposed on the U.S. today by Summers, Geithner, Orszag, and their British masters.

    As Lyndon LaRouche stated unequivocally yesterday: “The Hitler program has been revived by the Obama administration.”

    “This is straight Nazi stuff,” LaRouche elaborated. “It’s not a quibble; it’s not an interpretation. This is a direct copy of the philosophy of the Nazis. You cannot duck that issue. This is Nazi stuff. And it’s explicit. We know all this stuff from Hermann Goering and so forth in the 1920s, and after that with their international connections, like certain Wall Street firms. We have been warned, and we act accordingly. People who condone this are criminals, because they either knew, or should have known, what they are doing. They either knew, or should have known.”

    LaRouche continued: “Please be careful: don’t accept an invitation to sleep at the White House! It might be a longer sleep than you expected…. Every time the question comes up, we should say: ‘This is the tradition of the Fuehrer’s program being maintained. You should be grateful to your insightful President, who has helped to bring this forward. And he’s going to relieve some of the strains of the world by eliminating excess population.’ We keep wondering where we heard that before!”

    LaRouche emphasized that the entire HMO system has to be immediately eliminated. “Repeal the HMO’s, period. Because only if you repeal it, do you open the gates for the easy route to the necessary reforms. After you get the HMO’s repealed, after that, then you go with the other programs for rebuilding health care in the U.S., but not before.”

    “Don’t accept any discussion or dialogue on Social Security and such issues,” LaRouche advised. “First we have to reduce the costly mismanagement of health care by these insurance companies, by eliminating the HMOs. This will eliminate the biggest factor of waste in the health care system.

    “The HMOs just took over and replaced Hill-Burton. There’s no way of compromising on that; you have to be absolutely ruthless. The HMO is a parasite; there’s no question about it. This is all criminal, and we have to deal with it as a crime.

    “The point is people get hesitant, and they say: ‘In the meantime, what are we going to do?’ In the meantime? There is no meantime! Either we get these guys out now, or there’s no chance: mass death occurs. That’s what happened with Hitler. There were Jewish communities that also said: ‘Look, don’t fight it, it will go away.’ It’s the same thing today.”

    As for the Nazi behavioral economists, LaRouche said, “these guys have to go. Because either these guys are going to go, or the President is going to go. And the President has to think through that choice. Because the American people are not going to put up with this crap. And these guys are going to find that the American people are going to say to the President: ‘You get rid of those guys, or we get rid of you.’ “

  • CG

    I am absolutely mortified… I was just informed of some of the specific content on the videotapes of enhanced interrogations. Not one American would be proud, except Cheney I suppose, of the ultimate depravity and humiliation.

  • donjo

    Sort of curious to know what happened to my post?

  • TeakwoodKite

    Calming Influence, your facts ass backward.

  • candymarl

    In my career field we had a simple saying:

    “You don’t mess with the spooks (CIA)”.

    Maybe Ms. Pelosi should learn that.

  • candymarl

    Uh one more time. I have to agree with Mr. Johnson on the stupidity and I’m amazed he doesn’t lose his temper more often.

    1. At first the Obama campaign said that no such tape/CD/DVD existed.

    2. Then they said it did exist but Michelle said “Why’d he not Whitey”.

    3. Why would they try to explain away something that they first claimed didn’t exist?

    4. Your comment has nothing to do with the subject of the post. But that would require – I dunno – smarts.

  • candymarl

    Positive in military matters how? With his suggestion of cutting veterans benefits? Protested by every major veterans organization in the country.

    With his escalation of war?

    With his going back on his promise to bring the troops home right away? Now not only is he delaying that he is going to leave permanent bases in Iraq.

    These are all things so-called liberals/progressives marched against under Bush. Now? Crickets.

    Just saying.

  • Mr.Murder

    We did rendition of suspects and spying(even on Americans) before 9-11 and it didn’t make us safer.

    We set up a wing to shape INTEL at State before 9-11. The Dep’t of Near East affairs(Cheney’s daughter headed it, parallels her hubby’s lawyer work in similar capacities in north Central African matters) Near East Affairs elevated the lies.

    Niger is in the Near East. Morrocco.

    Hello, EU energy minister! Aznar’s vote right there! The EU energy czar was from Spain and did NGO appearances with Mike Ledeen. Perhaps Simone Ledeen’s friends who had baby incubators knocked over in Kuwait could be looked up once again?

    They used the same liars, the leapord didn’t change its stripes.

  • Diana

    I heard on KFI tonight on the way home that Nancy has already changed her story. It was Bush that lied to her, not the CIA. She’s just been so stressed she kept saying CIA when she meant to say Bush was the one telling her lies. I couldn’t help but laugh.

  • Diana

    I just did a search on it, Hot Air has the story up.

    Oh my goodness, Allahpunit cracked me up with his analysis of it. Just like the guys on KFI.

    I don’t know what she could possibly mean by this after yesterday’s “the CIA misleads us all the time” sandbagging unless she’s now accusing Team Bush of pulling aside the agents in charge of briefings and ordering them to lie. Which is insane…

    For the full article
    http://tinyurl.com/o2cgwq

    I agree it’s all sounding insane.

  • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

    I know for a fact that the CIA is responsible for cavities.

  • http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

    They conspired with (fill in name) Clinton on this.

  • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

    Donjo–Long comments or those with some ‘all caps’ tend to get stuck in the spam filter. Just email Larry or Susan and they will retrieve it. (see under “contact us” for addresses)

  • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

    PS–Include name of article, approximate time, and your posting name to help them find it quicker.

  • Retired

    If Ms. Pelosi truely believes that the CIA lied to Congress all the time, then it is time for her to put up or shut up with the American people. She should identify the liars by name and they should be allowed to defend themselves with their contemporaneous MFRs. The loser(s) should be stripped of their jobs and held in contempt by all Americans.
    Of course, this would require accountability, which just isn’t in the program for our current crop of elected officials. Until 2010 at the earliest, that is.

  • Retired

    Nancy backs down: Pelosi has now said that she only meant to criticize the Bush administration for lying, as opposed to the CIA careerists that briefed her. I guess that her staff must’ve reviewed the MFRs and told her that she was about to be revealed for the political whore that she is if she went forward with her “liar” accusation.

  • jimbob

    Larry, this is an interesting piece you wrote. I only have one or two problems with it: 1. Captured terrorists had no constitutional rights to due process in 2002. (They might now since the Supreme Court has overruled itself on these matters in the Boumedienne case) In fact, since they were not in uniform, the Geneva Convention does not apply to them either. 2. You consistently frame the matter of torture of detainees as an effort to convince the public that we needed to go to war with Iraq. You state, “the impetus for the waterboarding of Zubaydah was not preventing terrorism, it was an effort to prove the false premise that Saddam and Bin Laden were in cahoots.” Larry, was it not remotely possible that messers Bush and Cheney did not know whether Saddam and Bin Laden were in cahoots, and their efforts (like waterboarding) were simply conducted to find out if they were? Bush and Cheney did not make ANY premise. They wanted to know if there was an operational link. It seems to me that all of the evidence Democrats have gathered to prove the illegality of the Bush administration’s conduct can be explained by this one simple and straightfoward explanation: GW Bush and Dick Cheney did what they thought they had to do because they refused to take the gamble that Saddam did not have WMD. In short, you have not proven that Bush and Cheney waterboarded Zubaydah and others in order to prove that Saddam and Al Qaeda were “in cahoots.” And you most certainly have not proven that they did not waterboard Zubaydah to prevent terrorism because they may have believed that Zubaydah had information to prove the Saddam/Bin Laden connection. And there is this consideration: We know NOW that Saddam did not have stockpiles of WMD. That is true. But Saddam could have handed Al Queda ONE SINGLE cannister of poison gas, and Al Queda might have on ONE occaision dropped that cannister over an American city resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans. We do know that Saddam had at least a few serin gas cannisters left from the Iran/Iraq war. Bush and Cheney simply did not want to take that chance, but in any case, you will NEVER get a conviction of either one of them or anyone else in the government on any “war crimes” charge simply because their intentions were honest. And THAT my friend, is the truth, and you know it.

  • listing starboard

    Pelosi will get away with her lying. It is obvious that Obama and his administration will get away with destroying this country.

  • Mr.Murder

    *test

    The blog ate my post. Very spooky….

  • Mr.Murder

    It turns out the CIA got its notes wriong recently when compared to notes taken by Sen.Graham as he recalled his own experience with the briefings.

    Now, was the CIA telling the Senate INTEL one thing and the House another?

    Why would they do that?

    The story mentions Karl Rove and Dick Cheney in a apssing reference. Certainly the CIA doesn’t have them speak for it?

    Why was the White House using a press ecretary and the OVP to reshape what the CIA told them and present that to Congress?

  • Mr.Murder

    *notes wrong
    **passing reference
    ***press secretary

    At least the Hon. fmr. Sen.Graham spells better than I can type.

  • jimbob

    Now is the time for all patriotic Democrats to stand up to the radical left and STOP the blame Bush kangaroo court and gallows that Pelosi, Conyers, and Obama are preparing. The left is going to destroy this country by installing their union thugs in the boardrooms of GM, GE, and NBC. I will not be surprised if they take down moderate Democrats including all the former Clinton people. Democrats must protect their fellow countrymen even those who call themselves Republicans. Stop the political games with national security; stop the Stalinist show trials; stop the union takeover of corporations and the union/government monopolies that will ensue. Do it now before your country is lost.

  • SiliconDoc

    I have listened to thirty years of the democrats blaming the cia for everything, and the Church Commission is an excellent case in point for the starting of the public wailing and moaning.
    The problem today is the government is huge, and the analysts and ops have opposite stories to tell, all the time. The analysts who go one way, fight with those who go the other, and whichever side is against the percieved desire of any current administration takes on one big fat chip on the shoulder.
    I’ve read the pertinent NIE’s, pre and post Bush, pre and post Iraq war, and the answer and conclusion I’ve made was not a difficult one to arrive at.
    I suggest others do the same.

  • CentralMAss

    Only if they do not uphold the law.

  • CentralMAss

    It is time our government enforced the rule of law. Anyone who has broken it should be presecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Their party affiliation is irrelevant.

  • The Disseminating Machine

    The CIA causes a lot of trouble.
    _______________
    SCANDAL! SCANDAL! SCANDAL!

    EMERGENCY! EMERGENCY! EMERGENCY!

    George W. Bush continuously criminally stalked Margie Schoedinger to the point that she could not get away from it, and she committed suicide in desperation to escape: he murdered her.

    “In her suit, Margie Schoedinger states that George W. Bush committed sexual crimes against her, organized harassment and moral pressure on her, her family members and close relatives and friends. As Schoedinger said, she was strongly recommended to keep her mouth shut. . . . Furthermore, she alleges that George Bush ordered to show pressure on her to the point, when she commits suicide” (blog of drizzten).

    “One of those ‘very leasts’ [was] George Bush’s personal complicity in the death (murder to be precise) of my friend Margie Schoedinger in September of 2003. Determining the exact whereabouts and contacts of [then] president-elect George Bush on September 21 thru 22, 2003, should be entirely lacking in difficulty” (Leola McConnell—Nevada Progressive Democratic Candidate for U.S. Senate in 2010).

    Leola McConnell is correct: Bush applying pressure (continuously criminally stalking Margie Schoedinger) purposefully to force Schoedinger to commit suicide does in fact constitute murder where it culminated in her death.

    BEWARE: If the president of the United States hates one—for whatever reasons—he can continuously criminally stalk one to the point that one cannot get away from it, and one ultimately commits suicide in desperation to escape. He can murder people in this way.

    Bush is getting away with his murder of Schoedinger—with no sheriff, prosecutor, or court willing to uphold the rule of law.

    Bush’s method of murdering Schoedinger cannot exist in a vacuum: he must have murdered other people in the same way.

    Bush should confess, come out with the names of all of the people whom he murdered in the disgusting way he murdered Schoedinger, undergo execution, and accordingly find himself at the intersection where he would be free.

    (There are thousands of copies of the information above on the Internet. It exists very extensively in all major search engines. Please feel free to go to any major search engine, type “George W. Bush continuously criminally stalked Margie Schoedinger to the point that she could not get away from it, and she committed suicide in desperation to escape: he murdered her,” hit “Enter,” and find innumerable results.)
    _______________
    Andrew Wang
    (a.k.a. “THE DISSEMINATING MACHINE”)
    B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
    Messiah College, Grantham, PA
    Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993

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