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A Further Look Into Voting Machines

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on May 19, 2009 at 8:55 AM in Current Affairs, George Bush, John Kerry, Popular Vote, Voter Enfranchisement, Voting & Voting Rights

This Wednesday, May 20th, at 9:00 pm, we are going to continue our Live Chat conversation on the problems with electronic voting machines, and problems with voting in general, in this country. Kathleen Wynne, of Hand Count Paper Ballots Now mentioned a colleague of hers recently, Richard Hayes Phillips, author of Witness To A Crime: A Citizen’s Audit Of An American Election (also available at Amazon.com). His findings are astonishing, and by that, I mean, FRIGHTENING.

Below the fold is a video of a speech Mr. Phillips gave in Seattle in September, 2008. It is long, I grant you, which is why I am putting it up today so you can take the time to watch it when you have time. That being said, his talk is so compelling, the time flies by. The information it contains is shocking. What we have heard about what happened in Ohio in 2004 is but a drop in the bucket compared to Mr. Phillips’ findings. Oh, and I should add, he is being humble when he says he is simply a musician and hiker (he helps to make trails). He has four degrees, and was a university professor.

Now I understand that, at least in India, the voting by electronic machines has not been as flawed as it has been, according to fellow NQ writer, pm317. But there seems to be some differences there insofar as their machines are made in keeping with government regulations. Since Diebold (now ES&S) and other companies claim their software is proprietary and NO ONE can know what’s in there, I think there is a difference from the get-go between the two countries. Moreover, according to the post:

Diebold system works on Microsoft software, it has no seals on locks and panels to detect a tempering. It has a keyboard interface (!!!) and the server was tested to have “Blaster” virus. One report on Wired says a lady stumbled upon some files from Diebold, and found that the votes were stored in MS Access files. It also has a PCMCIA SanDisk card for local storage. A touchscreen GUI and a network connection to send the results to a server after encrypting it with DES.

The Indian EVM is just plain circuit, with some assembly code. A few LEDs, and two Seven Segment LED displays. One EVM can list 16 candidates, but up to 4 EVMs can be Linked to accommodate 64 candidates. (In a country of a billion people its possible to have 64 candidates for one single constituency.)

That’s a big difference in terms of security. It’s an interesting read, and adds to this conversation.

At this point, though, it seems that our elections as they stand are fatally flawed, especially as you listen to Mr. Phillips’ experiences. What do you think? Come to our Live Chat at 9:00pm on Weds., May 20th to discuss this critical issue.

Judy L. NC

I’m so glad you’re giving this attention. Thanks.
I’m a Linda too

Paper Ballot Voting is kinda’ like Single Payer Health Care, a majority of our citizens want them and HAVE wanted them, it’s our politicians ignoring our wishes, this most open and purest form of each.

I do believe you will find most Americans do cherish, “One Person, One Vote”.

Microsoft, oh, excuse me while I laugh. That these machines use such insecure and public software on our voting machines.

I don’t use Microsoft as a browser even for the same reasons. And there are so many that are writing their programs in microsoft code that I can’t use, because the browser I use, like Opera, is much more secure. And it acually chokes when it reads some of the crap microsft has in it’s programs.

Like one site I couldn’t post on. The program was written to not allow comments more than 25 characters, so of course, I couldn’t type more than 25 characters. But if I openned IE, voila, it over looks all that crap. lmao

Rainman sad Kmart sucks?

Tom Cat “wodie j” Jefferson Esq

I’ve never heard of the Opera browser? info please…

I’m a Linda too

sorry for the delay.

Opera is free, safer, NICER and securer. They are constantly upgrading as things change.

Now past 10. (ie 6 6.5 ….9, 9.5)

here you go.
http://www.opera.com/

PGraber

I work for the court system and I don’t understand why people aren’t required to have a voter registration number (just like a social security # and a driver’s license number). And, we need a national data base that is hooked up to all the state’s data bases. That way, once they used their voter registration card to vote, it would upload it to the state and then to the federal machine to prove that they voted. I think this would work.

Tom Cat “wodie j” Jefferson Esq

That’s a good question and I think it would work as well.

In Indiana we passed a law where a person had to show photo ID to vote. Democrats threw a friggin’ fit. Said it would disenfranchise the poor and homeless! People were even offered a free ID card at the BMV.

I am sure the homeless are worried about voting when they’re just looking for a meal. And the poor have to have photo ID for other things like banking etc. anyway.

It’s utterly ridiculous how lax regulations are and it’s inexcusable.
http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

Interesting, PG. Clearly, something has to give here – the machines we are using are FAR from reliable, and WAY too susceptible to tomfoolery (no offense there, Tom Cat! ).

Tom Cat “wodie j” Jefferson Esq

LOL…none taken

tek

PGraber: Could it be this would not serve the interests of our politicians. I wonder how many illegal aliens voted in the last election.

Tom Cat “wodie j” Jefferson Esq

of course it wouldn’t, all those illegal aliens and dead people couldn’t vote anymore. It is going to be up to us to lead the charge on reforming this crap. As long as there are lax restrictions, both sides can manipulate things to push their personal agenda instead of the best interests of this country. Unfortunately, the two aren’t exclusive.

Kathleen Wynne

PGraber,

We’ve discovered that this kind of database can and will be manipulated, as long as our votes are counted by machines. It has to do with party leaders and corrupt election officials ensuring a certain outcome in an election. Controlling the outcome of an election also controls the kind of foreign and domestic policies that are put into place and how business are regulated or are allowed to do whatever they please. Just look at what’s happening to our financial industry, our auto industry — this kind of greed and corruption exists because the people have absolutely no power in which to stop it! The only way to prevent such corruption is through our elections.

These machines are protected by proprietary secret laws, which ultimately keep both election officials and citizens from ever seeing how these machines count our votes and whether they have counted them correctly. Compounding this conflict of interest is the fact that these machines are run by the technicians who work for the voting machine vendors!

That’s why those of us who have been involved in investigaging election issues have concluded that the only way to “prevent” election fraud is to have a totally transparent system of counting our votes — hand counted paper ballots, at the precinct, on election night. No transfer of the ballots out of the precinct to another room or location and citizens being allowed to watch the counting of the votes immediately upon opening the ballot box and then posting the results for all to see and record. This is the only way to protect the integrity of the vote, as well as maintain the integrity of how many registered voters actually voted!

Without these “checks and balances” in place, citizens have literally given away all of their power. We’ve replaced citizen oversight with the “convenience” of computer systems that count our votes inside a black box, which makes the use of a voter registration database a complicit partner in maintaining secrecy in just how many people voted and who they voted for.

Democracy is messy and is not about “convenience” nor can it survive the “immmediate gratification” mindset that has taken over the American psyche. This mindset is being exploited to the max by our Congress, the voting machine vendors and the party leaders who want total control of our elections through these machines, bogus procedures that are not followed and conflicting regulations that make transparency (the ability for citizens to see their votes counted) impossible.

Let us never forget that absolute power, corrupts absolutely and by giving away the citizens right to see their votes counted in a public forum, is destroying a government of, for and by the people.

Texas Playwright

Yay, We the People! Let’s get this ESSENTIAL American Right–free and fair elections–front page–front paper page–now!
tek

Thanks for the article, Rev. Amy. We need to be keeping an eye on these things.

OT: For everyone who’s enthused about a Clinton/Palin ticket, go read the Politico article on an alliance between the two women. Very interesting. It seems Palin had an adviser who’s a Democrat.

Wow! What a ticket that would be. The Obamabots are scared ****less of Sarah Palin–with good reason. Hillary is going to look very desirable after 4 years of Bambi.

Tom Cat “wodie j” Jefferson Esq

that would be a KICK ASS ticket. And yes, the Obots are very afraid of Palin. LOL…I love it.

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

Yes, it WOULD be a kick-ass ticket. There is most definitely a reason Obama’s minions, including someone who worked for his PR firm making crap up to tell on her, targeted the VP pick, and not the Prez. candidate – they knew Palin had far more experience than Obama (again, not that I agree with many of her policies, though I do appreciate that she signed a law giving LGBT equal rights in AK).

Then add Hillary, all her experience, her brilliance, her popularity at home and abroad, her devotion to the people, her policies, and yeah – wow…

Tom Cat wodie j Jefferson Esq

I also think it would really be an excellent example of two people from different sides working together. For all of this talk about bipartisanship, little is shown from either party. I don’t believe the far left or far right is the mindset of the majority of people in this country. I think most are moderates and would gladly vote for a ticket where some conservative and liberal policies were held if done in moderation. For example, gay marriage is a very contentious topic right now. I think two logical people who are compassionate could come up with a very agreeable solution to this. Perhaps marriage could be defined as any partnership between two people. I think anything beyond that should be out. This business with people wanting 3 way marriages-go to Utah or wherever it is they sanction those kinds of things and let it be by state.

Another contentious topic is abortion. Clinton wanted free choice but very moderately. Palin is pro life. Some middle ground could be met.

I just think it is ridiculous in this day and age that we can’t find two honest, compassionate, intelligent, qualified people to run this country. Men haven’t done such a hot job. Let the women have a go at it.

Diana

We were just discussing this topic today. I read a poll that said for the first time more people associate themselves as Pro-Life. I don’t think it was a good poll. If someone asked, I’d say I was Pro-Life. I’d always choose life over the alternative if at all possible.

However, I am not so arrogant as to not realize there are some very valid reasons for abortions. Incest, I would never try to force a woman that is pregnant with her father’s or any other relative’s child to carry it. Rape. The infant has died in the womb. The mother or the child’s life is at stake. The medication the mother is on for her own health/life shouldn’t be taken during pregnancy.

What right do I have to tell a woman, I’m sorry your infant has died, but you’ll have to carry it to term. Knowing there will be no infant. Or I’m sorry I know you will not be here to raise the child, but…Or I’m sorry I know because of the medication you’re taking your infant will be born deformed along with other abnormalities, while you sit by and watch the infant suffer knowing he/she will die, but you’re going to have to carry the infant.

This topic/any laws need to be tempered with compassion and empathy. Not only for the unborn, but the mother as well. We cannot go back to what it was/what women did to themselves before Roe V Wade.

I’m a Linda too

Ohhhh, how exciting!

I’ll go search, but if you stop back by, LINK, please. Thank you.

tek

I don’t know how to put up links. Sorry.

I also think it’s important to monitor counting. Now there’s a scandal because only about 1/2 of the military and overseas ballots got counted.

CG

Greta’s husband, John Coale, supposedly asked Palin to have her supporters help pay down Hillary’s debt (I haven’t read the Politico post yet, is this the same info?).

Animal Control

Yes

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

After four years?? Hell, she looks mighty desirable in Obama’s position NOW!!! LOL – you know I couldn’t resist that one…

And the vote is the thing – it is so vital to our nation and its governance, yet too many either take it for granted and don’t bother voting, or vote, but don’t worry abt how the votes are COUNTED. Who does the counting is mighty important…

jbjd

R3A, I predict we would start a revolution if we could widely publicize just these 2 facts: 1) under the U.S. Constitution, the POTUS must be a NBC but no provision of any state or federal law requires any government official, or members of the Electoral College, to check; and 2) the purchase and sale contracts required by companies that provide electronic voting machines for use in state elections explicitly prohibit government officials from learning how those machines operate to record and count your votes, claiming that knowing how they work is proprietary information.

I will view the video when I get home.

Kathleen Wynne

jbjd,

you said:

“…the purchase and sale contracts required by companies that provide electronic voting machines for use in state elections explicitly prohibit government officials from learning how those machines operate to record and count your votes, claiming that knowing how they work is proprietary information.”

They already are doing this! Even the computer security scientists who were entrusted to oversee the security of these machines were never allowed to see a fully functioning machine due to the “propretary secret laws” which protect the vendors’ software code. This is a huge conflict of interest and flys in the face of the democratic process.

Unfortunately, by trusting these scientists because of their “expertise” in understanding how a voting system works, citizens have, again, been betrayed because the scientists never disclosed to the public that they were not allowed to observe a fully functioning voting system. In fact, when we asked one of those scientists why they never told the public this information, they answered “because they would have been replaced with another scientists who would be worse!”

Of course, it couldn’t have been because these scientists benefited greatly from having at least this access because it gave them a certain notoriety and invitations to testify before Congress.

The well-known Dr. Avi Rubin, who is one of the scientists we trusted to protect the integrity of our votes in these machines, went on to start his own “computer security business” as a result of the notoriety he achieved through his connection in “overseeing” the voting machine security and said “once he’s made a million or two, he’ll get out of the security business.”

This is what happens when citizens “trust” others to do what they should be doing. Counting their own votes by hand!

jbjd

Yes, I know; evidently, my comment did not make that clear. Simply, we have not established any mechanism to enforce a Constitutional means test for POTUS; and we are prohibited by private companies from knowing whether our vote counts, anyway.

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

I agree, jbjd – and how is that? I mean, how did this happen? The Constitution is crystal clear abt the eligibility requirement, so how is it that no one on the Federal level is charged with ensuring that happens?

If I understand correctly, the States are responsible to ensure that their elections fulfill that eligibility requirement. Is that right?

Betty

On first learning about this stuff (2000), I thought it was the corrupt republicans. Now, after watching the 2008 election I realize it is neither the republicans nor the democrats who are interfering with our elections.

It is an unidentified group doing this, and if the behavior in the past year is any indication they were desperate this election cycle. Why? We were that close to a real health care reform, the banks knew they needed to socialize their losses or eat them (after hugely privatizing the profits), and what else? Keep the war in Iraq going, esculate in Afganistan, keep spying on Americans, protect credit card companies, I bet there are thousnads of little and big reasons.

So they had to have their puppet, and they got him. And as far as I am concerned anyone who has gone along with this election fraud are traitors to this nation and, when it comes to putting Bush in office, are complicit in crimes against humanity.
rose

Wow Iam so for Hillary but wasn’t for Palin BUT if she would be with Hillary I’d vote in a minute! Bring it on. I think with reublicans and democrats who were sick at the sexism during this past primary would be all for them.

I would be afraid if this was out too early Ob and gang would find away to destroy Hillary.that Chicago gang has some nasty talents.

Docelder

Palin would deflect most of the negative energy as well as she is the bigger hate target for the far left. Palin could then bite back as the attack dog and it would be perceived as plain toughness on her part. Palin can do things in this regard that Hillary can’t do and get away with. No doubt that ticket could win as it would fracture the fragile left coalition. The republicans, I predict are going to go off the deep end far to the right next time. They think that is why they lost. The left is going to hold with Obama. Don’t know if it could happen, but it will take something like that to do it.

tek

Palin actually had a good record in AK that was moderate. The Obama hate squad attacked her to keep that from coming out.

rose

by the way here in a county in Pa. they said there was some damage to the voting machines in the court house,so I asked one of the election workers ,they said they replaced some and fixed others.that just gave me chills and this was before the elections.
rose

check this out,racism again in your face
Secretary of State Clinton Under Attack in Virginia
By soldier4hillary on May 18, 2009

Oh this dude is going down:

McAuliffe blasted by rival for supporting Hillary Clinton

— Virginia gubernatorial candidate Brian Moran is hammering his Democratic primary rival Terry McAuliffe for backing Hillary Clinton instead of Barack Obama throughout much of the presidential race.
Hard. You have got to be kidding me:

The Moran campaign is hoping a new 60-second radio ad running on black radio stations in Virginia will remind African-American voters — likely to be a crucial voting block in the June 9 Democratic primary — of McAuliffe’s full-throated support for Clinton
What is the weather like in VA? Are they serious? Moran thinks to play the “race card”? Me thinks someone is going to find out the hard way that this will not work at all. I learned alot from 08. Excuse me but no one *owns* our vote and to keep acting as if your priveledged to have it will have you losing it. We are not *victims* or individuals who need constant *hand outs*. Get real. Instead of coming at our community, the black community as no more than just a *voting block*. Maybe he can explain what reasons he deserves to win other than the fact of race baiting? Hell no. We listened to this for almost two years and I’ll be damned before I listen to this in 2010. Why are people unable to get there point across without reverting back to identity politics. Even more, to use our SOS as if it was a bad thing? It would be laughable if it was not what they were seriously attempting to do. I guess campaigning is starting early.

This was about the worst thing this guys campaign could of done because there is nothing I despise more than unwarranted attacks exhibiting CDS and race baiting politicians. I can’t waite to hear the ad. I guess the fun starts earlier than previously thought.

Posted in Secretary of State Clinton

| Tagged Brian Moran, Secretary of State Clinton, Terry McAuliffe, Virginia Primary
pm317

Indian electronic voting machines are made to its election commission’s specifications by defense related govt. owned (non-political) companies — three of them are involved. No political party is involved. All tests and info related to EVM are public. The design of the machine is described on the Election Commission’s web page. They also describe point by point how fraud is prevented using those machines. Each box at a polling place has only a small capacity to hold only a few thousand votes (so you can’t stuff it with votes), and people can’t confiscate it and load it with votes because the machine registers only a handful of votes every few minutes (mimicking the routine of actual voting) so people can’t load it with votes instantly. The only way to introduce fake votes is by reprogramming the chip but given the box the EVM is housed in, people can’t easily access the chip without damaging the box. After voting concludes at each voting place, the number of votes in the EVM is matched against the number of signatures of people who voted there. Ballot unit and control unit are separate and during voting only ballot unit is most used and people who have access to control unit are few in number.

There is a FAQ here from the election commission webpage: http://eci.nic.in/faq/evm.asp

Election commission is in use only during each election, i.e. it is not a permanent political entity. They make sure they don’t have a vested interest in one or the other party.
CamdenRave

Greta Van Susteren’s husband asked Palin to use her PAC money to pay Clinton’s campaign debt. Palin Said “no”. End of story.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22681.html
jbjd

I just finished watching the whole video.

Right off the top, I would say, voters must demand legislation that makes failure to retain ballots for the statutorily required time, a felony punishable by both imprisonment and fines.

And, it would appear, after 2000 and 2004, the Democrats learned well how to rig an election.

Kathleen Wynne

jbjd,

We’ve tried to work with Congressman Rush Holt’s people on his legislation and suggested amendments be made to his bill that are similar to what you suggest above, but we were met with total indifference.

What you have to accept is that our Congress is corrupt, the system is broken and you can’t fix a broken system with a broken system. Congress was complicit in promoting the machines via the voting machine lobbyist. As a result of their partnership with the voting machine vendors, it’s clear that they have no intention of “helping” citizens take back oversight of their elections.

What we need to do is build support on the grassroots level for citizens to get involved in their respective communities by raising public awareness that the only way we can “prevent” election fraud is start pushing our local government for a return to hand counting our ballots. There are 24 states which allow citizens, after meeting certain criteria, to propose their own legislation. This might be a possibility for citizens to get the kind of legislation you are talking about.

To date, we have not been able to take this approach because too many within the election reform community have led the citizens to believe that we must compromise the right for citizens to be able to “see” their votes being counted. IMO, that has been the reason we have not made more progress than we have. We have to stop playing a fixed game, with the rules made up by the voting machine vendors and a compliant Congress and start playing our own game!

As long as we feel we have to compromise on the principle that it is the citizen’s absolute right to see their votes counted, the people will lose every time.
Betty

failure to retain ballots for the statutorily required time, a felony punishable by both imprisonment and fines.

I agree and also make the election null and void, and a new election would have to be held immediately. And elections should be done as cheaply and as easily as possible. Remember the attempt to have a mail in primary. Or on every election day turn every ATM into a voting machine and use a voter registration number as the pin.
Then we could use a national data base, as suggested earlier, that is hooked up to all the state’s data bases. That way, once anyone used their voter registration card to vote the it would upload it to the state and then to the federal level to prove that you voted and block further votes with that id from anywhere in the US. And we should be able to could check your vote on line and get a receipt in the mail within 10 days.

The reason politicians huddle over voting machines and proclaim that the right to vote is sacred and must be protected by only allowing people to vote on one day week day between 7am and 8pm is so that they can cheat.

Doc99

On a related matter, a word from Anita Moncrief.
Diana

I asked for a paper ballot today and told my children and their spouses to do the same. My daughter-in-law went with me and did so. Seemed to me almost everyone going in to vote today was asking for a paper ballot. I told a friend of mine that was working there today that maybe we all saw the same HBO/Voting documentary. She said I believe it! Everyone is asking for paper today. The machines are basically just sitting there. There also was no woman taking the ballots today either. We had to place them in a locked box, so someone must have complained (Which I was all set to do if she tried to take mine and read it, but she wasn’t even there this time.) about how the paper ballots were being handled during the election.
Paul

I say take your older parents to the voting polls next election. This last election they had thugs sitting in a lawn chairs asking the older people who are they voting for ?When the said Palin/McCain the thugs said oh, not today come back another day. So take your parents and friends of older and make sure the thugs don’t do this to them !

As far as Opera browser having her own browser, It’s just another way to control and brain wash the people in only letting then see what she wants them to see.

Oprah sucks ! The main stream media sucks. I would not watch them for any reason. MSM-CBS-CNN-ABC MSNBC LET THEM ALL FALL AS THEY LIED TO YOU/US AND LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO OUR COUNTRY AND CHILDRENS FUTURE.SHUT THEM OUT OF YOUR HOME !

Docelder

I haven’t heard of an Oprah sponsored browser. Opera is a browser, I looked at it a couple years back and the free version served ads, so I never looked seriously at it again. I don’t know now if that is the case still with the ads, I use Firefox myself and have no need to experiment… But, the point being, that browser is not associated with Oprah. Here is a link from them about it.

http://www.opera.com/support/kb/view/304/
PopeInRome

As far as Opera browser having her own browser, It’s just another way to control and brain wash the people in only letting then see what she wants them to see.

Is this comment a joke or are you a complete moron?

Debbie4palin

WalMart SUCKS! They are in with Hillary and Obama.I would not shop walmart ever again.And Oprah …Ok all we know of her and her lies and ways of how she went on this election of helping a FRAUD get into our country and you are telling us of Opera browser,why?

We want his birth certificate.NO GOOD FRAUD Obama !

I have to question why even giving her browser.It makes me wonder who you work for and trying to get people to see her lies that for sure she won’t put in her browser the truth of this Fraud and how she worked this election as well.