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Cheney’s 9/11 Chutzpah

I really do not understand how Dick Cheney, who helped dismantle the counterterrorism office in the National Security Council in the early days of the Bush Administration, can take credit for protecting America when he, by his own arrogance, ignored warnings of an impending attack by Bin Laden’s troops in August 2001. He can insist sternly and forcefully that he is more trustworthy than Barack Obama in knowing how to deal with terrorists but he can’t run from this one fact–MORE AMERICANS DIED FROM TERRORIST ATTACKS DURING THE REIGN OF GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY THAN DIED DURING THE PRESIDENCIES OF KENNEDY, JOHNSON, NIXON, FORD, CARTER, REAGAN, BUSH I AND CLINTON COMBINED.

Chew on that for a bit. Cheney wants credit for no attacks inside the United States since 9-11. Swell. You want the credit for that. Sure. But you then deserve the blame for not doing your job to combat terrorism during your first 9 months in office.

Do you recall this report in the Christian Science Monitor on 6 September 2001?

These days Mr. Cheney is about as visible as a stealth bomber. He’s still in all the big West Wing meetings – and still has a close relationship with Mr. Bush. But in recent months he has acted more the role of traditional vice president – pep talks to local Republican clubs, funerals, and radio shows. Consider, too, his new assignment: leading a task force on domestic terrorism – important, but not at the center of the White House agenda.

I’m sure one troll or two will resurface my July 2001 op-ed in a bid to distract from my basic point. I have one simple comment–I held no government position at the time. Period. Dick Cheney was supposed to head a task force on domestic terrorism but it was not a high priority.

But he dropped the ball. Protecting America and Americans was not his priority. He did not start beating that drum until almost 3,000 Americans had been crushed, smashed to bits or incinerated on 9/11. But does he accept any responsibility for those lost lives. Hell, no!! He blames Bill Clinton and the pre 9/11 mentality while ignoring his own

Cheney’s speech yesterday reveals a display of chutzpah that is simply breathtaking. He trots out the 9/11 bogey man 25 times. Take a look:

Part of our responsibility, as we saw it, was not to forget the terrible harm that had been done to America and not to let 9/11 become the prelude to something much bigger and far worse. . . .

9/11 caused everyone to take a serious second look at threats that had been gathering for a while and enemies whose plans were getting bolder and more sophisticated. . . .

9/11 made necessary a shift of policy, aimed at a clear strategic threat: what the Congress called “an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.” From that moment forward, instead of merely preparing to round up the suspects and count the victims after the next attack, we were determined to prevent attacks in the first place.

These are just a few of the problems we had on our hands. And foremost on our minds was the prospect of the very worst coming to pass: a 9/11 with weapons of mass destruction.

For me, one of the defining experiences was the morning of 9/11 itself. As you might recall, I was in my office in the West Wing in that first hour, when radar caught sight of an airliner heading toward the White House at 500 miles per hour. That was Flight 77, the one that ended up hitting the Pentagon. . . .

In the years since, I’ve heard occasional speculation that I’m a different man after 9/11. I wouldn’t say that. But I’ll freely admit that watching a coordinated, devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities.

These are just a few of the problems we had on our hands. And foremost on our minds was the prospect of the very worst coming to pass: a 9/11 with weapons of mass destruction.

For me, one of the defining experiences was the morning of 9/11 itself. As you might recall, I was in my office in the West Wing in that first hour, when radar caught sight of an airliner heading toward the White House at 500 miles per hour. That was Flight 77, the one that ended up hitting the Pentagon. . . .

In the years since, I’ve heard occasional speculation that I’m a different man after 9/11. I wouldn’t say that. But I’ll freely admit that watching a coordinated, devastating attack on our country from an underground bunker at the White House can affect how you view your responsibilities.

We did not invent that authority. It’s drawn from Article II of the Constitution, and it was given specificity by Congress after 9/11 in a joint resolution authorizing “all necessary and appropriate force” to protect the American people.

Our government prevented attacks and saved lives through the Terrorist Surveillance Program, which let us intercept calls and track contacts between Al Qaida and persons inside the United States. The program was top secret, and for good reason, until the editors of the New York Times got it and put it on the front page.

After 9/11, the Times had spent months publishing the pictures and the stories of every single individual killed by Al Qaida on 9/11. Now here was that same newspaper publishing secrets in a way that could only help Al Qaida. It impressed the Pulitzer committee, but it damn sure didn’t serve the interests of our country or the safety of our people.

In the years after 9/11, our government also understood that the safety of the country required collecting information known only to the worst of the terrorists. And in a few cases, that information could be gained only through tough interrogations. . . .

It is a fact that only detainees of the highest intelligence value were ever subjected to enhanced interrogation. You’ve heard endlessly about waterboarding. It happened to three terrorists. One of them was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, who has also boasted about his beheading of Daniel Pearl. . . .

I might add that people who consistently distort the truth in this way are in no position to lecture anyone about values. Intelligence officers of the United States were not trying to rough up some terrorists simply to avenge the dead of 9/11. We know the difference in this country between justice and vengeance. . . .

Keep in mind that these are hardened terrorists picked up overseas since 9/11. The ones that were considered low risk were released a long time ago. And among these, it turns out that many were treated too leniently, because they cut a straight path back to their prior line of work and have conducted murderous attacks in the Middle East. An estimated 14 percent of those released previously are believed to be back in the business of jihad. . . .

You don’t want to call them enemy combatants? Fine. Call them what you want; just don’t bring them into the United States. Tired of calling it a war? Use any term you prefer. Just remember: It is a serious step to begin unveiling some of the very policies that have kept our people safe since 9/11.

The United States of America was a good country before 9/11, just as we are today. List all the things that make us a force for good in the world — for liberty, for human rights, for the rational, peaceful resolution of differences — and what you end up with is a list of the reasons why the terrorists hate America.

If fine speech-making, appeals to reason, or pleas for compassion had the power to move them, the terrorists would long ago have abandoned the field. And when they see the American government caught up in arguments about interrogations or whether foreign terrorists have constitutional rights, they don’t stand back in awe of our legal system and wonder whether they had misjudged us all along.

Instead, the terrorists see just what they were hoping for: our unity gone, our resolve shaken, our leaders distracted. In short, they see weakness and opportunity.

What is equally certain is this: The broad-based strategy set in motion by President Bush obviously had nothing to do with causing the events of 9/11. But the serious way we dealt with terrorists from then on, and all the intelligence we gathered in that time, had everything to do with preventing another 9/11 on our watch. . . .

Yet having reserved for himself the authority to order enhanced interrogation after an emergency, you would think President Obama would be less disdainful of what his predecessor authorized after 9/11. It’s almost gone unnoticed that the president has retained the power to order the same methods in the same circumstances. . . .

If Americans do get the chance to learn what our country was spared, it’ll do more than clarify the urgency and the rightness of enhanced interrogations in the years after 9/11. It may help us to stay focused on dangers that have not gone away. Instead of idly debating which political opponents to prosecute and punish, our attention will return to where it belongs: on the continuing threat of terrorist violence and on stopping the men who are planning it.

For all the partisan anger that still lingers, our administration will stand up well in history, not despite our actions after 9/11, but because of them. And when I think about all that has come — has to come during our administration and afterward — the recriminations, the second-guessing, the charges of hubris — my mind always goes back to that moment.

To put things in perspective, suppose that, on the evening of 9/11, President Bush or I promised that, for as long as we held office — which was to be another 2,689 days — there would never be another terrorist attack inside this country. Talk about hubris; it would have seemed a rash and irresponsible thing to say. . . .

Of course, we made no such promise. Instead, we promised an all-out effort to protect this country. We said we would marshal all elements of our nation’s power to fight this war and to win it. We said we would never forget what had happened on 9/11, even if the day came when many others would forget. . . .

And even the most decisive victories can never take away the sorrow of losing so many of our own, all those innocent victims of 9/11 and the heroic souls who died trying to save them.

It is ironic that Cheney concludes by mentioning the “heroic souls who died trying to save them.” I know he means the firefighters and police who died at the scene in New York City, but the Bush Administration did nothing for the firefighters and police who suffered health affects after working at ground zero. In fact, the Bush Administration insisted the air at ground zero was swell.

Cheney talks a good game but conveniently ignores the fact that international terrorism grew dramatically as a result of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. The number of terrorist attacks in 2004 exceeded the number ever recorded since the U.S. Government started keeping track of the statistics starting in 1968.

Cheney is using the fear of terrorism to try to rally Americans to accept torture as an appropriate and valid defensive measure. He would prefer that Americans revel in ignorance of the law and dismiss the lessons of history by repeating the mantra of 9/11 as the ultimate excuse to justify the illegal and immoral conduct of the Bush Administration.

What is truly galling is that George Bush and Dick Cheney could have made a difference in preventing 9-11 if they had made combating terrorism a priority. Here is what Milt Bearden and I wrote on November 7, 2000:

The Clinton Administration has shot its bolt on the terrorist problem with small effect, and no last minute show of force will change the record. A new administration can start afresh with a more sharply defined set of terrorism goals – Mughniyeh and bin Laden and their protectors for starters – and bring the full, coordinated force of American diplomatic, military, and intelligence capabilities to bear on the problem.

After 8 years of Bush and Cheney Bin Laden is still on the run and their radical Islamic supporters are resurgent in Afghanistan. Heck of a job, Dick.

  • Baba Rum Raisin

    One wonders if there’s a correlation between those who wave a flag for Cheney since January (and in this dust-up) and those who believe Bill Calley to be an unsung hero?

    Or am I just getting old?

    • Ellen D

      You’re showing your age. Most here will say “who is William Calley?”
      But I get your point.

  • Seattle Moss

    Bin laden is probably dead or in the basement of some mansion hooked up to the kidney dialysis that he needs.
    Now that Obama has told the enemy that he will be expanding forces in Afganistan they have set up shop in Pakistan where the liberals failed to support Musharref who kept the country together.

    if we want to go down the road of second guessing what could have been done to stop the attacks on 911 we need to go back and investigate the Clinton administration…

    after all these attacks should have been a warning to Clinton.
    kept us safe for 8 years”?

    here’s the list that followed the 1993 bombings in NY and occured in those 8 years that you are so proud of :

    -khobhar towers saudi arabia 1996 ;19 americans killed

    -Embassy bombings kenya , tanzania 1998 ;12 americans killed

    -Bombing USS Cole 1998 ;34 americans killed

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Just have the intellectual honesty to apply the same standard to Bush. I criticized Clinton at the time for not doing enough. But the body count on the Bush watch is enormous. Largest ever. If you blame Clinton but excuse Bush then you are just a partisan hack with an ass for a brain.

      • Seattle Moss

        Considering I was a delegate for Hillary and have not voted republican for 24 years until last year i hardly would call myself a partisan.

        Your tone tells me a lot about your situation.

        I neither want Bush or Clinton investigated…

        Move on!

        • Rob G in Chicago

          Even Bill Clinton recognizes that his loose zipper caused him untold distraction, but every time he tried to do anything to take the fight to Bin Laden, he was hit with “wag the dog”, even from the backstabbing members of his own party.

          • Animal Control

            even from the backstabbing members of his own party.

            Very well put Rob G

            • Ladydawnelle

              Yeaaaaaaaaaap!

              STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE PEOPLE!

              CHENEY AND BUSH WERE/ARE CRIMINALS

              OBAMA IS ON HIS WAY (if not already)

              • Jim S

                Øbama has broken more laws in 4 months than Bush did in 8 years. Don’t talk about violations of the Constitution, Bush trails in that department too.

          • Seattle Moss

            Rob,
            That zipper may have cost us…

            No less than the destruction and exile of the Clinton centrist wing of the democrat party.
            The sting that the republicans were able to pull on Clinton has led to…
            Bush winning the Republican nomination in 2000 due to his supposed high sense of morality. Which led to Gore losing despite a roaring economy,stock market and a surplus because Gore could not embrace the Clinton years and himself was a fool consumed by fake moral outrage
            Hillary also suffered greatly from the curse of the zipper.
            All I kept hearing in the primary was about the blue dress.
            At the caucus..Nobody wanted to hear my concerns for national security or the economy.
            It was all about the zipper and the dress.
            So Hillary lost those fake morality voters who now see with dread their Obama fate.
            Hard to believe that a zipper can cause so much damage.

          • tek

            Rob G: yes, and unfortunately those back-stabbing Democrats are now in power.

            This country is so over.

      • dcmediagirl

        Larry: What the the hell is wrong with you? Don’t you know it’s time to “move on” and “not look back” and stop “dwelling on the past”? The Bush-Cheney cabal are to be thanked – THANKED – for keeping us “safe”. But notice how the same trolls who want to “move forward” are constantly referring to 9/11, “supporting the troops” by forming a high-kicking chorus line for torture, presupposing guilt of anyone in US custody…well, you know the rest. I guess that since aliens from the planet Blort didn’t enslave the human race after 9/11 Bush and Cheney should be thanked for that too.

        • Seattle Moss

          Poor DCThug girl

          Cheney won the argument big time!

          Get used to it!

          • dcmediagirl

            Seattle Moss: Why get on my case? I’m reinforcing your argument! “Move on” I wrote!

            I defer to your obvious wisdom and expertise. Given your vast knowledge base in matters of national security you are unquestionably in a position to lecture Larry. After all, what does he know?

            • Seattle Moss

              Considering you don’t even know what the American sphere of influence was, I don’t take much stock in your views on national security or the projection of American power in the world.

              Larry,Truthteller and yourself have vested much energy in the desire to see the Bush administration prosecuted.

              How’s that working for you?

              • James Guglielmino

                Don’t know how it is working for dcmediagirl, but it’s working GREAT for me. I just hope it happens. One thing is for sure, you could smell the scent of fear coming from Cheney.

                • DCMediagirl

                  Hey James: Not working for me yet. I want frogmarches, dammit!

                  • TeakwoodKite

                    Rove and Frog Marchers are playing down at 9:30 Club I hear. Sorry I have caught the show.

            • Animal Control

              He also has a crystal ball like all patriots

          • Ellen D

            Actually there are people like myself who say Cheney didn’t win and there never should have been a politicizing of this issue. It needs to be dealt with in a sane logical way – period.

            Seattle Moss, this isn’t like you. I suspect those of us in business are at the end of frayed nerves.

            Larry, that was a bit harsh and jumping the gun. I suspect that you, like me, were surprised at the numbers of our group that would rather drink the Cheney Kool Aid rather than agree with Obama on anything.

            Time to regroup folks. This is a tough period and we’re all a bit jumpy. A lot of us are going through tough times so lets cut each other a little slack.

            • Seattle Moss

              Ellen,
              I have been posting for over a year that Obama represents retreat and defeat for America in the world.

              I never voted for Bush and look what we got..Obama.

              However i give credit where it is do.

              The surge was a success, Iraq will be free and America is well positioned in the middle east to thwart the coming threats from Iran and Pakistan.

              My view about the democrats changed for good the night of the state of the union.

              Bush told us about the success of the surge and everybody got up like patriots and cheered including Hillary who sacrificed her campaign as a result.
              Obama on the other hand sat on his hands wishing defeat.
              I can never support haters like that.

              • Ellen D

                Yes, I remember your posts Seattle Moss.

                I am in no way an Obama defender nor am I a Bush defender but when something worked, as the surge did, I admit it.
                That was why I supported John McCain because he was pilloried for his opinion on the surge but stuck to his guns.

                So many people have been disappointed in Obama’s actions that their personal opinions have not allowed them to consider his arguments dispassionately.

                Of course, you may be correct to point out that it may be all words, anyway, since he is known for reversing positions in the blink of an eye.

                I always respect your opinions, Seattle Moss, even when I disagree.

                • James Guglielmino

                  It is utter myth that “the surge worked,” and those of you who assert that manifest the poison of the kool-aid. Furthermore, the Sunni had offered to “come in from the cold” months and months ago. Shrub wouldn’t have it. Shrub Bush brought to us the most failed American presidency in history. There isn’t one single positive thing that he presided over. Not one.

                  • Karma

                    I’m sure Halliburton views Bush in a positive light…that ‘Mission Accomplished’ sign wasn’t for the rest of us. ;)

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      Blackwaterheart, too.

            • TeakwoodKite

              our group ???

              I ask with respect, what is it about individuals position being similar makes a group?

              • elise

                Of course we are not a group Teak. There is no closure, identity or invertibility, but we do associate. We may refer to each other as friends occasionally, but we aren’t even that. It isn’t necessary to agree on all things for friendships to be formed, but honesty and trust are essential. We are just a “set” of people who gather in one place to express diverse opinions and occasionally agree.

                I am surprised anyone on nq would defend Dick Cheney or believe anything coming from his lying mouth, but we live to learn.

                • TeakwoodKite

                  Kind words elsie. Learn we must.
                  My comment was not worthy of them, thanks.
                  With so many people stampeding across the political landscape, like so many Buffalo, it’s hard to see through the dust cloud in their wake.

                  Cheney reminds me of Kek, the Egyption god of darkness.

                  Death was a complex affair. Originally this was only for the pharaoh, but the rich soon believed that they could take part in the afterlife, and eventually the poor [BO], believed they could join the ranks of the blessed dead. Other reasons for the complexity of life after death came from the Egyptian way of clinging to ideas, rather than discarding them when new ideas came along. The intermingling of peoples, the different religious ideas and cults all were incorporated into the Egyptian belief system, giving rise to this elaborate belief system.

                  • elise

                    In a way this quote about Kek is disturbing. Something will always be lost. Certain Aztec traditions were maintained by the Catholic Church in Mexico to make Christianity more appealing, but as a whole, the people and their beliefs disappeared (which might be good in some ways since they practiced human sacrifice but who am I to judge? LOL).

                    There are those who post here who have an amazing capacity to cut through the crap. They inform and opine without the horrible slavery to the party line and you are one of these treasures. I would never disrespect you.

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      Nor I you.

        • Portia Elizabeth

          Seattle Moss is not a troll. You might want to check the comments section more often.

        • listing starboard

          Meanwhile, while everyone is embroiled in rehashing the Bush/Cheney years Obama and his Democrat Congress is systematically destroying our Constitution and finishing off any freedoms and civil liberties we had. why don’t we focus on trying to salvage what is left of this country ?

      • Portia Elizabeth

        Larry — I don’t understand why you, an obviously intelligent, educated man, feel the need to resort to name-calling and swearing when people disagree with your positions. It weakens your stance when your sole response is to label with some vulgarity. I know you said you don’t need us here because this is only catharsis for you, but in all honesty, your adverts would dry up quickly if the traffic here died off. I’ve already noticed a lessening of comments as a result of the personal attacks. for myself, I’ve refrained from even commenting on your posts for the most part out of fear of your wrath.

        If saying these things earns me your enmity, then so be it. But your site is very important to us, and I would hate to see it disappear like others because of the adversarial atmosphere.

        • elise

          Portia is a lovely name. Did you take it from Shakespeare (The quality of mercy is not strained…)? But don’t you get a little tired of adults using #&% to substitute letters when everyone knows what is intended? Personally, I don’t like profanity, but I like hypocrisy less.

          • Portia Elizabeth

            Elise — yes, it’s from The Merchant of Venice and middle name a salute to my Granny. I do think it’s a little hypocritical to use symbols since spelling it out seems to be the accepted practice here. Some sites I visit discourage it, so I try to state my opinions without it at all. I was taught that an intelligent discussion doesn’t need expletives to get a point across. Most of the time I agree with that. :)

            • elise

              Portia, in a better world profanity wouldn’t be so commonplace or acceptable, but fear and anger seem easier to express with the use of the “verboten”. True vulgarity is rare at this site in comparison to many others, but the everyday use of some words have rendered them less powerful. Even some very nice people (ie my husband)are given to the overuse these days out of frustration.

      • Anonymous NQ reader leaving this site

        Wow, how classy, Larry, to refer to a longtime regular reader and contributor of NQ as a hack with an ass for a brain, just because he/she made a comment challenging parts of your post. I notice that Moss did not attack you personally; it says something about you that you — the owner of this blog — feel the need to respond in such a nasty and personal and juvenile way to a reader whose view you disagree with. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this, and stick around? Ciao.

        • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

          Well, if you cannot comprehend a simple sentence you are a fucking moron. I only suggested that Seattle Moss would have an ass for a brain if he applied different standards to Clinton and Bush. But, in your case, you are a hack, a moron and unworthy to be a reader of this site. My opinion.

          • DCMediagirl

            Well, if you cannot comprehend a simple sentence you are a fucking moron.

            My thoughts exactly, coupled with “if you can’t tke the heat, get out of the kitchen”. I find it fascinating that people who post ignorant views demand to have tbeir foolishness respected and coddled and start howling when they’re forcefully brought back to reality. Larry, you’re my hero, as always.

          • Randall P. McMurphy

            Oh my GOD…You America hating losers…why don’t you go out and do something positive to help this country rather than piss on those who protect us? LMAO at Larry…is that how you talk about someone as intelligent as Seattle Moss, who has kept many people here despite your rapidly dwindling readers? Larry, YOU are the asshole and MORON…you insult people for having opinions, and quite frankly yours are about as Anti-American as it gets. No wonder you’re readership is down 30%. For those of you who applaud Larry abusing someone as cool as Seattle Moss, FU too. I can’t even read this crap here anymore.

            Grow up you losers. You’re too cowardly to stand up for this country, and siding with murderous scumbags over your fellow Americans. Tell you what…you guys go sit in the next building they fly planes into. Do the country a favor. And, as for the three pathetic pieces of shit that might have been uncomfortable when they got interrogated? Too frigging bad. We can end this by you sending the terrorists who murder American innocents to MY house and I will waterboard them myself. Then you freaks can STFU and go complain about something else you hate about this country. What traitors you are.

            • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

              This veteran thinks that the only cowards are you, the other bushbots, and Cheney, the man who had other things to do when called upon to actually serve his country. Your comment is nothing more than bush-league hogwash, which fits, considering it was bush-league policies that got us into the mess we’re in. Take your gobbledegook somewhere else, preferably to a licensed landfill, asshat.

              • Seattle Moss

                the man who had other things to do when called upon to actually serve his country.

                So did a lot of people….

                Including Clinton!

                • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                  Sorry but the topic is Cheney and not WJC. On this we do have a distinct disagreement. Cheney is fair game since he wants to continue his prevarication. He could have just let this go. But no, he couldn’t do that. If he insists on the legality and efficacy of torture, then he ought to at least have the guts to have it done to him. But no–Cheney’s battle flag is a lily-white field with a yellow stripe running down the center. He is a coward who sent soldiers to their deaths so he could make a few bucks. He can yell into that pickle barrel until he is hoarse but he isn’t worthy of my spit.

                  And if this “war” on “terror” was so damn important, then he and his bush-league boss should have called for a draft, cancelled tax cuts, and sent 250,000 troops into Afghanistan. It never was that bad and their response demonstrates that fact. It was a diversion. All the sky-is-falling claptrap from that corpulent moron doesn’t persuade me in the least as he is a liar of first order.

                  Cheney is no patriot, no real American, and no man. He should be relegated to the ash-heap of history just as Benedict Arnold was.

                  • Seattle Moss

                    Your position on the draft is pathetic and you should know better to what type of fight were in and how a draft doesn’t apply to the conditions on the ground.

                    Cheney’s speech was brilliant and you are starting to sound desperate in your hatred which is a shame.

                    I’m starting to think that you’re not working with a full deck…

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      I’ll ignore the ad hominem and just state that what you have just said makes the “war on terror” is complete and utter farce. You have often said that these terrorists are a more formidable adversary than the Nazis. If that is so, then a draft was in order and taking it to the enemy should have been the objective. Afghanistan should have been completely overrun and the Taliban and Al Qaeda taken out to a man. Where is bin Laden? Like the poor marksman he is, Cheney missed the target as did the rest of that abominable administration.

                      I stand by my comments. Cheney is both a pitiful excuse for an American and a human being.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      You have often said that these terrorists are a more formidable adversary than the Nazis.

                      They are a greater threat to the civilized world than the Nazi’s precisely because armies are powerless to stop them.

                      Try to think through the hate man!

                    • Katmoon

                      Unnecessary Seattle, please don’t go there.

            • TeakwoodKite

              Anti-American as it gets…

              Which of John Edwards “two America’s” are you referring to?

              and siding with murderous scumbags over your fellow Americans.

              What the ones that snuck in or the ones here legally?

              Dude! (and I hate the word)…. some of those “murderous scumbags” are Americans. So now what?

        • Don

          “Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this, and stick around?”

          Maybe because down deep we all love torture and abuse!

    • James Guglielmino

      Absolutely breath taking, Seattle. Apparently you think that if Obama didn’t “tell the enemy that he is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan,” that they would be unaware of that? And, “Musharref who kept the country together?” Gosh, it seems that the Pakistanis didn’t want this despot who shut down the courts around anymore. Don’t we have enough problems without keeping yet another unwanted despot in office? I guess your thinking is we don’t. And NO, we *don’t* need to investigate Clinton’s administration to see what could have been done. All we need to know is that just as soon as shrub and Cheney got into office, they disemboweled every Clinton program they could, including the efforts that Clinton had made to act against terrorism.
      ” “Mr. Clinton approved every request made of him by the CIA and the U.S. military involving using force against bin Laden and al-Qaeda,” wrote Cressy. “As President Bush well knows, bin Laden was and remains very good at staying hidden. The current administration faces many of the same challenges. Confusing the American people with misinformation and distortions will not generate the support we need to come together as a nation and defeat our terrorist enemies.”
      Measures taken by the Clinton administration to thwart international terrorism and bin Laden’s network were historic, unprecedented and, sadly, not followed up on. Consider the steps offered by Clinton’s 1996 omnibus anti-terror legislation, the pricetag for which stood at $1.097 billion. The following is a partial list of the initiatives offered by the Clinton anti-terrorism bill:

      Screen Checked Baggage: $91.1 million

      Screen Carry-On Baggage: $37.8 million

      Passenger Profiling: $10 million

      Screener Training: $5.3 million

      Screen Passengers (portals) and Document Scanners: $1 million

      Deploying Existing Technology to Inspect International Air Cargo: $31.4
      million

      Provide Additional Air/Counterterrorism Security: $26.6 million

      Explosives Detection Training: $1.8 million

      Augment FAA Security Research: $20 million

      Customs Service: Explosives and Radiation Detection Equipment at Ports: $2.2 million

      Anti-Terrorism Assistance to Foreign Governments: $2 million

      Capacity to Collect and Assemble Explosives Data: $2.1 million

      Improve Domestic Intelligence: $38.9 million

      Critical Incident Response Teams for Post-Blast Deployment: $7.2 million

      Additional Security for Federal Facilities: $6.7 million

      Firefighter/Emergency Services Financial Assistance: $2.7 million

      Public Building and Museum Security: $7.3 million

      Improve Technology to Prevent Nuclear Smuggling: $8 million

      Critical Incident Response Facility: $2 million

      Counter-Terrorism Fund: $35 million

      Explosives Intelligence and Support Systems: $14.2 million

      Office of Emergency Preparedness: $5.8 million
      The Clinton administration poured more than a billion dollars into counterterrorism activities across the entire spectrum of the intelligence community, into the protection of critical infrastructure, into massive federal stockpiling of antidotes and vaccines to prepare for a possible bioterror attack, into a reorganization of the intelligence community itself. Within the National Security Council, “threat meetings” were held three times a week to assess looming conspiracies. His National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, prepared a voluminous dossier on al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, actively tracking them across the planet. Clinton raised the issue of terrorism in virtually every important speech he gave in the last three years of his tenure.

      Clinton’s dire public warnings about the threat posed by terrorism, and the actions taken to thwart it, went completely unreported by the media, which was far more concerned with stained dresses and baseless Drudge Report rumors. When the administration did act militarily against bin Laden and his terrorist network, the actions were dismissed by partisans within the media and Congress as scandalous “wag the dog” tactics. The news networks actually broadcast clips of the movie “Wag the Dog” while reporting on his warnings, to accentuate the idea that everything the administration said was contrived fakery.

      In Congress, Clinton was thwarted by the reactionary conservative majority in virtually every attempt he made to pass legislation that would attack al-Qaeda and terrorism. His 1996 omnibus terror bill, which included many of the anti-terror measures we now take for granted after September 11, was withered almost to the point of uselessness by attacks from the right; Senators Jesse Helms and Trent Lott were openly dismissive of the threats Clinton spoke of.

      Specifically, Clinton wanted to attack the financial underpinnings of the al-Qaeda network by banning American companies and individuals from dealing with foreign banks and financial institutions that al-Qaeda was using for its money-laundering operations. Texas Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, gutted the portions of Clinton’s bill dealing with this matter, calling them “totalitarian.”

      In fact, Gramm was compelled to kill the bill because his most devoted patrons, the Enron Corporation and its criminal executives in Houston, were using those same terrorist financial networks to launder their own dirty money and rip off the Enron stockholders. It should also be noted that Gramm’s wife, Wendy, sat on the Enron Board of Directors…..”

      • Docelder

        When the administration did act militarily against bin Laden and his terrorist network, the actions were dismissed by partisans within the media and Congress as scandalous “wag the dog” tactics.

        Yes, but these were passive. i.e. launching a couple million dollar cruise missiles against tents. It was a no dirty your hands type of retaliation, which just fed bin Laden’s anger even more without doing anything substantial to counter him. Bush & Co. has reduced bin Laden to another amateur video producer. You can see a lot better videos from 10 year olds on Youtube at anytime. I don’t think looking back is productive, but if we are going to look back, let’s do it with full vision.

      • tek

        James: you are so right. The Republicans stalked Clinton because they couldn’t stand it, absolutely couldn’t stand it that a Democrat was in the WH.

        Bob Dole got on tv during the opposition rebuttal of the State of the Union address and announced that Americans should march on Washington D. C. and demand that Bill Clinton be removed from office. I was teaching American History Survey that semester. I assigned my students to watch the news and come in questions, so I watched it every evening myself. I’ll never forget that, never.

      • elise

        WOW, James. Thank you for delivering the facts.

    • tek

      Seattle Moss: you have been drinking the Limbaugh Kool-Aid big time. Not one bit of 9/11 was Bill Clinton’s fault. His national security advisor had this attack pinpointed and tried to get Bush to look at it. Bush kicked Richard Clark out of his office because he had worked for Clinton. That’s what all your strident partisanship gets you. George W. Bush was a childish idiot.

      Bill Clinton prevented an Al Quaed attack on the Canadian border in 2000. The only place Clinton is in any way to blame for any terrorist attacks is in the political wet dreams of Neoconservatives like you. The real trouble with neoCons is they don’t recognize a great president who kept this country safe, prosperous, and at peace when they see one.

      But by all means. let’s have another George W. Bush who brought this country to its knees or another Reagan who turned Americans out to live in the streets and taxed scholarships and student jobs while he let the billionaires go without paying because he was “rewarding them for success.”

      The Republicans’ corporate socialism is every bit as bad as Obama’s socialism for people who don’t work and are in the country illegally stealing jobs from Americans.

      • Seattle Moss

        The Republicans’ corporate socialism is every bit as bad as Obama’s socialism for people who don’t work and are in the country illegally stealing jobs from Americans.

        A very true and original statement!

        Bravo…

      • Seattle Moss

        Bill Clinton prevented an Al Quaed attack on the Canadian border in 2000

        Actually…NO

        An observant border crossing guard in Port Angeles Wa on regular duty searched the trunk of a sweaty looking, shifty eyed muslim guy finding bombs in the trunk.

        Thanks border crossing guard!

    • DCMediagirl

      Seattle Moss Your comment on Pakistan is laughable. Musharraf was the Bush administration’s butt boy. He was not supported and abandoned by “liberals”. Despite declaring martial law, rounding up and arresting thousands of political opponents and shutting down GEO, Pakistan’s most influential and powerful news channel, Musharraf still lost the election in 2008. You know a dictator’s given up the ghost when he can’t even rig an election properly. His situation was so pathetic that the Bush administration’s only recourse was to beg the incoming government not to run Musharraf out of the country like a poisoned dog or hang him in the street. But if it’s a strongman you want don’t worry – given the country’s history there may yet be another coup. Freedom is on the march!

  • bgb

    Shame on you Larry for trying to blame 911 on the Bush Administration. I once had some respect for your opinions, no longer… you are truely another partisan hack.

    Obviously Cheney hit a nerve with you. Th truth indeed hurts. All of us who are paying close attention, including you, know Obama has made a habit of repudiating Bush, then contining his policies with MINOR modifications to demonstrate his false moral superiority. The fact that Obama has reserved the power to engage in EIT’s in case of emergency speaks volumes and undermines his whole argument. Lucky for him most citizens aren’t paying attention.

    FROM LARRY JOHNSON:
    I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHETHER YOU RESPECT ME OR NOT. I DON’T KNOW WHO YOU ARE OR WHY YOU ARE WORTHY OF A SECOND THOUGHT. FACTS ARE FACTS. NINE MONTHS INTO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, DESPITE REPEATED WARNINGS OF AN IMPENDING TERRORIST ATTACK, BUSH AND CHENEY DID NOTHING TO DEAL WITH THE THREAT. THEY DEMOTED RICHARD CLARKE, THE DOWN GRADED THE COUNTER TERRORISM ISSUE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, AND THEY DID NOT CONVENE A MEETING TO DISCUSS COUNTER TERRORISM POLICY UNTIL 10 SEPTEMBER. TRUTH HURTS. DEAL WITH IT.

    • bgb

      Larry,
      I don’t claim that the Bush administration bears no responsibility. I doubt Cheney does either. Your points are taken. But you falsely blame Bush for simply continuing the same policy as the Clinton Administration. Neither administration took the threat as seriously as it should have. Had the original World Trade Center Bombers understood the amount of explosives required to take the building down the story would be quite different, now wouldn’t it? They successfully ignited a bomb; lucky for us it just wasn’t as lethal as they thought. Would we have blamed Clinton… I doubt it.

      We are also completely off point here. This isn’t a debate on who’s to blame for 911, but rather a debate on whether we should be playing politics with National Security information, right? Cheney is only responding to Obama, who started this by excoriating the previous administrations tatics (then adopting them), releasing the memos and then caving in to the Left by leaving the possibility that Bush Officials may be prosecuted for war crimes. That’s F%$&*ing serious, Larry! To move public opinion in his favor President Obama released “Edited” memos in the name of transparency – conveniently telling half the story. This is no game, and we’ve seen the tangled web of politicians caught up in that mess. Obama could end this today, and you know it.

      You may not agree with Cheney’s positions but he made a clear case. Obama didn’t, he made a campaign speech. The most telling of Cheney’s points, in my opinion, is that Obama has reserved the right to use EITs as well, among other things. Even Axlerod danced around that question last night on Hardball when Chris Matthews asked him directly was that true. Did you see that Larry, Axlerod couldn’t give a straight answer? What do you think of that Larry? How do you square that? Of course, Matthews didn’t press hard as expected, because like you said… the TRUTH HURTS. I’m not hurt by the truth, I accept it when it is proven to me to be truth. The false outrage and moral superiority you have displayed in today’s post is nauseating.

      FROM LARRY JOHNSON:

      (I AM TYPING IN CAPS ONLY TO ENSURE THAT MY COMMENTS ARE NOT MISTAKEN TO BE YOURS.) I MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR AXLEROD AND I AM VERY CLEAR THAT IF OBAMA APPROVES THESE ILLEGAL METHODS HE IS AS CULPABLE AS CHENEY. YOU ARE MISTAKEN IN IMAGINING THAT BUSH SOMEHOW USHERED IN A “NEW” TERRORISM POLICY. FACT IS THE COORDINATION PROCESS WORSENED UNDER BUSH AFTER 9/11. EVIDENCE? THERE STILL IS NO SINGLE U.S. GOVERNMENT LIST OF THE TOP TEN (OR TWENTY) TERRORIST TARGETS. HOW DO I KNOW? I STILL HOLD CLEARANCES AND WORK FOR THE US MILITARY FORCES THAT HAVE THE CT MISSION. I SEE WHAT CIA HAS, WHAT FBI HAS, WHAT DOD HAS. NOT SHARING INFORMATION AND CERTAINLY NOT WORKING IN A COORDINATED EFFORT.

      THEN THERE IS THE COMPLETE HORSESHIT ABOUT FIGHTING TERRORISM AS A “MILITARY” OR “WAR” EFFORT. I HAVE SPENT THE LAST 15 YEARS WORKING WITH THE US SPECIAL OPS MILITARY FORCES THAT HAVE THE MISSION OF COMBATING TERRORISTS. THE IDENTITY OF THE SPECIFIC UNITS IS CLASSIFIED. I WISH IT WERE A SIMPLE MATTER OF PURSUING TERRORISTS WITH MILITARY GUYS VICE COPS AND SPOOKS. BUT HERE IS THE REALITY–THE TERRORISTS ARE SMALL IN NUMBER AND DO NOT USUALLY OPERATE IN UNITS OR FORMATIONS WITH INFRASTRUCTURE THAT LEND THEMSELVES TO A MILITARY OPERATION.

      MY OUTRAGE IS GENUINE. AND, LIKE IT OR NOT, I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I’M TALKING ABOUT. I WORK WITH IT ON A FIRST HAND BASIS. I HOLD THE CLEARANCES. YOU HAVE ZERO EXPERIENCE AND ARE TALKING OUT YOUR ASS. SO GIVE IT A REST.

      • Yeah Right

        If the response really is from Larry Johnson I gotta say that your temper tantrum reminds me of my husband! It is childish!

        You are too intelligent to belittle yourself in such a way! We all surely should be able to disagree while remaining respectful to one another.

        But to each its own. If you want ATTEMPT to blast me, go right ahead but I am not going to sink to such a immature level! Have a great weekend!

      • bgb

        Ok, I get it. You worked at the CIA, you still got clearances, you hate Cheney, and I am talking out of my ass.
        For starters I spent quite a few years in the USMC, and know a little about clearances enough to know that “Clearances” and “Classified” don’t mean squat, and that a “Need to Know” is necessary. I had Top Secret Clearance, but that didn’t give me unfettered access. You’re a blogger who probably does some consulting for the military and in doing so still maintains some low level clearance, I know you don’t have high level access, so stop beating your chest. I don’t claim to have the same experience as you, but I don’t talk out of my ass either. In fact, if I did you wouldn’t have responded. I didn’t realize how arrogant you are.

        Now to your points.
        1. YOU ARE MISTAKEN IN IMAGINING THAT BUSH SOMEHOW USHERED IN A “NEW” TERRORISM POLICY. Now this is quite remarkable. Bush may not have come in with a new Policy on Terrorism, but damn if he didn’t leave us with one. The last I checked we have taken the fight abroad, increased Military/Intelligence funding, prevented attacks on the homeland, and killed quite a few terrorists in the process. I don’t have time to go through all the things (Good or Bad) Bush has done: Gitmo, Wiretapping, Pre-emptive Strikes, etc, whether you think it has made us safer is another debate, but my friend you are just flat out wrong. Your “Evidence” about some list is a joke and proves nothing. It goes against everything that has been reported about inter-communication between all the agencies. It may not be perfect, but it ain’t worse. If it is, we would know; thanks to the NYT.
        2. THEN THERE IS THE COMPLETE HORSESHIT ABOUT FIGHTING TERRORISM AS A “MILITARY” OR “WAR” EFFORT. I’ve got family in that war, and right now it is a war, not a conventional war, but a war. But it doesn’t matter what you call it. I’m quite aware of how the terrorists work and why this is such a complicated matter. I understand that you can’t defeat them with a conventional Military alone. I assume you do as well and surprised at your malice toward Cheney considering the calls the Bush administration had to make. Terrorism is potentially the most dangerous thing we’ve ever faced as a nation, and will be long after Obama is gone. You get the luxury of never having to make a hard decision to combat it, you should have a bit more sympathy toward the people who do.
        3. MY OUTRAGE IS GENUINE. AND, LIKE IT OR NOT, I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I’M TALKING ABOUT. I WORK WITH IT ON A FIRST HAND BASIS. I believe your outrage is genuine, but that doesn’t make you right. BTW – The more you claim to know what you’re talking about the less credibility you have. Kind of like Obama defending his policies yesterday – think about it.

        Have a good weekend!

        FROM LARRY JOHNSON:

        NO, YOU DON’T GET IT. OVERSEAS OPS, MILITARY AND OTHERWISE, IS NOT NEW AND TOOK PLACE PRIOR TO BUSH JR. THOSE WERE CLASSIFIED AND YOU JUST DON’T KNOW ABOUT THEM. BUT YOU HAVE BOUGHT INTO THE PROPAGANDA THAT BUSH WAS NEW AND DIFFERENT.

        TERRORISM THE MOST DANGEROUS THREAT? DUDE, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY DELUDED AND IGNORANT OF HISTORY.

        • Seattle Moss

          I KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I’M TALKING ABOUT. I WORK WITH IT ON A FIRST HAND BASIS

          I know more than you..

          You know more than me…

          Yada Yada Yada!

      • Katmoon

        I MAKE NO EXCUSES FOR AXLEROD AND I AM VERY CLEAR THAT IF OBAMA APPROVES THESE ILLEGAL METHODS HE IS AS CULPABLE AS CHENEY.

        Exactly; Our country will not be able to withstand much more of the double standard based on parties. The chasm is deep and wide already, thanks to both sides of the aisle. How about someone, finally understand we the people need representation, not just extremes from either side. I’m watching to see if there will be action in this administration to follow the words.

        • elise

          You are right on the money Katmoon. Partisan politics is killing us.

      • Anonymous NQ reader leaving this site

        Time to revoke the clearance, perhaps? You seem postal.

        • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

          Perhaps it is time for you to heed the thrust of your moniker. Perhaps your destination will be the same rock under which Cheney hid for 8 years, 5-deferment coward that he is.

          • oowawa

            Hey Ferd–Glad to see you and Katmoon have returned to NQ. I see you are jumping back into the fray with both six-guns blazing. It’s been too quiet around here! Think I’m going to lose myself for a while trying to make “Wolfram Alpha” jump through hoops, but I’m afraid Wolfie is going to have me jumping through hoops pretty soon. I’ll think of Dick Cheney again after Memorial Day. I don’t want to pollute the memory of our brave fallen soldiers with any thought of his cowardly treacherous ass.

            • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

              Evening oowawa. I just got back from a much-needed vacation in SF. It was great. And I agree with your assessment about Cheney and memorial Day. He snookered all the Bushbots by wrapping himself in a flag he never actually served in any real sense.

              • TeakwoodKite

                Benjamin Franklin Berfle.. you and Katmoon are welcome at “The House of Teak”, next you find yourself again in my neck of the woods.

                Glad you had a good time. :)

                • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                  Thanks, Teak. Next time we go there, we’ll let you know.

                  My but the right and left wings bots are out in full force tonight, aren’t they?

    • termo

      “NINE MONTHS INTO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, DESPITE REPEATED WARNINGS OF AN IMPENDING TERRORIST ATTACK, BUSH AND CHENEY DID NOTHING TO DEAL WITH THE THREAT.”

      Exactly what possible supsects were mentioned in those warnings? What kind of attack was being planned? Where was this attack supposed to happen?

      You don’t have the answers to those questions and they were not in the 9/11 Commission report.

      The line of repeated warnings is empty B.S. and since you were not int he White House you have no first hand knowledge of what was or was not being done.

      Here are some real facts:

      1. Bush was in office only about 7 months and did not even have a full cabinet yet.

      2. If the counter terrorism unit that you spoke of was so good, then why was this plot already broken up or even exposed?

      3. Also, with this crack counter terrorism unit, how come some of these 9/11 terrorists were able to train in the U.S. at our flights schools to learn to fly a jumbo jet one way?

      4. Many of the recommendations from the Gore Commission on airport safety were ignored by the Clinton administration – some of which would have prevented 9/11.

      5. Why was Bin Laden even alive when Bush took office?

      I don’t know Richard Clarke but in retrospect given the situation in January, 2001 I would have demoted him as well.

      • tek

        termo: what you’re saying is false. Condoleeza Rice had the actual intelligence reports that said Al Quaeda was planning to attack the U. S. by hijacking planes. She lied about seeing those documents and they finally surfaced. They were even posted on the Internet.

      • tek

        termo:if you don’t know Richard Clarke, then you don’t know shit about 9/11 and the intelligence preceding it.

      • TeakwoodKite

        You don’t have the answers to those questions and they were not in the 9/11 Commission report.

        No they were not just as Philip D. Zelikow was running interference for Bush. There were many things “Not in that report”.

        Bush was in office only about 7 months and did not even have a full cabinet yet

        Do you not recall the complete animosity and Contempt Bush and Cheney expressed? They stopped all programs for 6 months while they “reviewed” them?”
        Why wasn’t the principles group only meeting on Sep 10th??

        “don’t know Richard Clarke” ..and? That prevents you from reading his book? Or is it a problem that he is the ONLY one to offer an apolopgy to the nation for failing. Are you aware that Richard Clarke after being “banished” from the Bush “court” looked to fill a badly needed role as counter cyber-intel and was shunted by Bush as well?

        With respect, Flat out, termo you are an idiot.

  • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

    Do you want to see chutzpah? This is so bad, it is so much worse than torture. It is the total disregard by our congress of their duty, and the courts duty to ensure that our President meets constitutional requirements!

    Obama said yesterday, “I will never hide the truth because it is uncomfortable”. Oh yea! Well then why have you spent almost a million dollars to keep your birth certificate, and college transcripts that show you were a foreign student from the American people? Why if you will not hide the truth do you not put them out there as EVERY CANDIDATE IN HISTORY has done? Also why does the media continue the lie? Why does everyone act like you need a tin hat if you say something about it. Our constitution and the hijacking of our country by this fraud is a lot more important than worrying about some damn water getting poured on some people who should have been shot dead on the battlefield anyway!

    • candymarl

      Don’t forget the medical records. Obama produces a letter. McCain releases his entire medical history. Go figure.

      • Ladydawnelle

        Candyyyyyyyyyyyy! ;-)

  • trish

    Obama…please take a stand on SOMETHING!
    Make a decision, state facts, give the people information, truth, be honest, live by the Constitution and obey the law instead of constantly distorting it.

    I’ve been a Democrat for 34yrs., until this last election. Obama has been involved with ACORN, Rezko, Auchi, Ayers, Farrakhan, Frank Marshall Davis (mentor) and more. I will never trust him, he is corrupt and has never been vetted.

    I don’t trust Cheney but he sure gave the facts about 911.

    • ces

      I don’t trust Cheney but he sure made up the facts about 911.

      There, fixed that for ya.

      • Animal Control

        Good job.

        • Ladydawnelle

          ROFLOL! INdeed!

  • SJ

    Hey Larry why fuss, Obama already said the last administration acted out of fear, get it Bush was afraid after 9/11, Bush jumped the gun and went off and started a war.

    Now we have big bad Obama and his crew that is going to keep up save from harm, he is not afraid of any Muslims they are all his family, who knows maybe the USA will start celebrating Eid and all those other Muslim holidays, giving Muslim prayer time from work every hour on the hour.

    Start to teach the Koran and Arabic in school, Obama is going to embrace and cuddle them and their way of life, no longer will we be afraid, Obama cousin has all the documents ready to sign in Africa so it wont be long before these Muslims accept America and all Americans.

    Let not your heart be troubled embrace the new way of life under a Obama administration.

    • Mary

      Not to mention that President Obama has “reserved the right to use enhanced interrogation techniques” (translate: anything Bush did) should another attack occur and he needs intel fast.

      It is Barak Obama who said not to look backwards, but to Move On.

      Obama wants no Truth Commission.

      He’s already said he will keep the possibility of the enhanced techniques should he need them.

      Ergo, Larry, he REINFORCES Cheney’s claim that they’re needed.

      So, what’s the difference between them?

      • Donna “Abigail Adams” Brazile

        When will That One commute Scooter Libby’s sentence?

        • Animal Control

          As soon as the money is in the bank.

        • candymarl

          Bush already pardoned Libby. He did it almost before the ink was dry on the conviction.

      • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

        And if Obama behaves like Cheney and Bush I will be equally critical. This site is not exactly known as a pro-Obama site in case you haven’t noticed. We simply try to be objective.

        • TeakwoodKite

          We simply try to be objective.

          And a dam fine job you do.

          It is one of the greatest challenges to seperate the revisonist rhetoric from facts and communicate it effectively.

          The problem of a humans proclivity to use emotional filters prior to viewing the artwork and coming away with an incomplete perception of reality is our fate. This is a humans obstacle and salvation all in the same macadamian nut.

          With all the “angles in the room” being expressed on the pages of NoQuarter, I am thankful to all for their passionatly held understandings.

          In the end, the facts always outlive the humans. It is up to the human lot to find the facts before the truth becomes our demise.

          “The fate of all mankind is in the hands of fools.”

          (Forest Gump voice: “And that’s all I got to say on that matter”)

          (Thanks Pat for your artwork)

      • Animal Control

        They are after all cousins.

        • Ladydawnelle

          you beat me to it U U U A N I M A L! LOL

    • DCMediagirl

      SJ:

      Now we have big bad Obama and his crew that is going to keep up save from harm, he is not afraid of any Muslims they are all his family, who knows maybe the USA will start celebrating Eid and all those other Muslim holidays, giving Muslim prayer time from work every hour on the hour.

      Start to teach the Koran and Arabic in school, Obama is going to embrace and cuddle them and their way of life, no longer will we be afraid, Obama cousin has all the documents ready to sign in Africa so it wont be long before these Muslims accept America and all Americans.

      In my my place of work Muslims ARE given prayer time and Eid is celebrated. We celebrate Diwali and Holi with our Hindu coworkers. Why? Because this is America and we respect and encourage freedom of religion. At least we’re supposed to. Countries that don’t include Saudi Arabia, a country whose attitudge towards freedom of religion you seem to want to replicate here in the US.

      Oh, and you’re a paranoid racist. Have a nice day!

      • JustMe~~

        so what the hell happened to Easter and Christmas that has to be celebrated under wraps….??

        if this is America we should not have to hide any celebration or at the very least celebrate in silence??

        • JustMe~~

          so we just say Happy Holidays~~

      • Just Me

        Ah…, there you go dcmediagirl! How would a heated discussion be considered valid without the tossing in of the good ol’ racist meme?

        Are you still smarting because folks didn’t buy into your defense of the ridiculous Olbermann and Maddow, by trying to use the inanities of Limbaugh?

        Such remarks, as your racist one, demean true racism, and if they continue will eventually make racism again as acceptable as people like Olbermann, and the Obama campaign, have made misogyny.

  • politicalidentitycrisis

    Do we have to like Cheney or Obama???? They both scare me and don’t care about America or Americans and their safety, IMO.

    • Animal Control

      Hell no you don’t have to like them, you don’t have to agree with them either. This is The United States and we have a Constitution based on the ideals of Individual Liberty espoused by The Declaration of Independence.
      So party on.

      Oh, concern yourself with Liberty. I’d rather be free and in danger, than secure but not free.

      • http://noquarter foxyladi14

        oh…AMEN TO THAT…..

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        Oh, concern yourself with Liberty. I’d rather be free and in danger, than secure but not free.

        AC:

        That is one hell of a sentiment and I concur with your comment absolutely. Freedom, by its very nature, incurs some amount of danger. One cannot be free and completely safe at the same time. So I’ll take my freedom and my chances with the danger. And those who would sacrifice my rights and my liberty for their own selfish (and callow) desire for some nebulous “feeling of safety” are hereby put on notice that I will engage them wherever they may be to stop them from removing those choices granted by our wondrous Constitution.

    • politicalidentitycrisis

      Our Government has a responsibility to protect us and I do not believe we have to give up our freedoms to do it. They should actually be committed this country and serving the people who elected them, rather than having their pissing matches. That is all this is right now is a war between Obama and Cheney. War of 2 narcissists! They should be given zero attention on this because while they are infighting the rest of us are suffering. It feels like 2 siblings, whose mother needs to put one in one corner and one in the other corner so they just shut the F up. Obama needs to shut up and stop fretting over what a former VP says, does, or has done and get to work on our economy and leave the terror traking up to the proper agencies and if his Speaker of the house is a detriment to what they are trying to do, he should start proceedings to send her to the unemployment line. Cheney needs to shut up and go write his memoirs. We never heard from him most of the Bush years and now he won’t shut up. we have much bigger problems that terrorists kids! Unemployment in double digits can and will do way more damage than 9/11. How many will starve to death or kill themselves or others??? I don’t put it past either one of those fools, Obama or Cheney, to stage something to win. I just prefer they shut up. Neither one is an honorable figure for this country. I am ashamed of the losers we give power to! Thank goodness I voted for neither one!

      • TeakwoodKite

        Our Government has a responsibility to protect us

        This a wierd one for me since it is “We the People” that forms the basis of this protection.

        • Just Me

          Teak, your comment would be entirely accurate, and spot-on, if We the People actually still governed, or had any actual, and ultimate, influence.

          I truly bemoan what I see today as governance by “We the corparatists”. In my opinion, WE the People simply pay the bills.

  • http://www.dwarfhamster.com dst

    Wasn’t it Cheney and Rumi in the last 6mo’s of the rein of Bush the Elder who set up the whole system of No-Bid contracts? I remember hearing an interview with a General (name not remembered) who just after the fall of Baghdad claimed to be sitting on outskirts waiting for orders to go in and keep peace but never got them. Perhaps a quick victory was not wanted. Not a lot of $’s to be made in a short successful war.

    • TeakwoodKite

      “There are no infidels in Bhagdad”…no shit, they have been at Motel 1600 for the last decade.

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        LMAO!

  • JRD

    You know Larry, I really like you and enjoy reading what you write but you are off the wall regarding this matter. It`s just a deflection. The both of these guys are playing us. Move on. The country is going to hell. After we have a country again we can deal with this.

    And please calm down. You sound like you are going to have a stroke. If you do where does that get you.

    Have a great weekend.

  • helenk

    can someone tell me how this helps America?
    Who’s sideis backtrack on?
    He was taught and raised by anti-americans. I guess their teachings stuck.

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/05/outrage-obama-to-apologize-for-american.html

    If there are no investigations into the torture and possible war crimes, what is to stop them from happening again? As a country we have a moral duty to investigate and find the truth.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

    • ConfusedAmerican

      This is getting so ridiculous. Obama is the president of the US, yet he seems to only have disdain and embarrassment for our country.
      You know I had my doubts about whether either of the Obama’s really cared about America or had any real patroitism. I guess for some dumb reason I felt that if Obama became President he would have some pride in our country and show it to the rest of the world.

      WRONG!!!!! I have a feeling that Obama has some deep anger issues about America and there were reasons Obama stayed in Wright’s church, along with being friends with Ayers.

      • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

        Gee do ya think? It is hard to have pride and love for a country when you are not from there and when you grew up at the feet of first communist/black/America haters in the form of Frank Marshall Davis and of course his father. Then at the feet of Michelle Obama, and Rev. Wright and of course the whole lineup of the rest, we know all of their names it is just the main stream media who cannot seem to put it all together.
        It is sad really that they are so mentally challanged in this regard.
        Obam could give less of a shit if we torture or not, or if we bail out banks, or take over car companies allowing dealerships in familys for decades to be STOLEN and given away to the no doubt ACORN owner down the street.
        It is all about power with him. If it puts his nose a little further up in the air he is all for it, if not then the “rule of law” comes into play. Otherwise the “rule of law” our declaration of independance and the constitution can go to Hell as far as he is concerned.

        • tek

          patriotparty: What do you mean, not from here? He knew there are 57 states in the Union and the Great Lakes are somewhere in Oregon, didn’t he?

          Pathetic!

          • Animal Control

            LOL

  • outlawales

    cheney or obama who do i trust more

    ugh decisions decisions

    if i’m waterboarded then cheney,

    if not , then cheney

    • Animal Control

      Josey, is this you?

  • Donna “Abigail Adams” Brazile

    Where’s Ferd?

    • Portia Elizabeth

      I miss him, too. I think he left after getting raked over the coals for stating an opinion. A shame, really, considering his opinions were always thoughtful and well-reasoned.

      • Donna “Abigail Adams” Brazile

        I want Ferd back!

        Stop the absentfest and return!

        • Seattle Moss

          I want Paula Revere(I’m fed up) and Andrew 191 back.
          They were 86′d for being right!

          that’s why your down 30% NQ

          • Portia Elizabeth

            jeez, I thought I was apying attention. What happened? Are they banned? I hope not!!

          • Portia Elizabeth

            jeez, I thought I was paying attention. What happened? Are they banned? I hope not!!

          • Senneth

            I want Paula Revere and Andrew back as well. I loved reading their posts, although I didn’t agree with them all the time. I’ve been wondering for some time what happened to them, especially Paula.

            • JustMe~~

              Yes me too where are Paula Revere and Andrew191.

              I was wondering the other day where Andrew191 was….. gee can we not just understand we will never all agree on everything. No wonder the world is in the state it is…..

            • elise

              If you miss Paula, Senneth, check out Randall P. McMurphy upthread. They are remarkably similar.

        • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

          Thanks, Donna. I’m here and loaded for bots, Donna. We were on vacation in beautiful San Francisco. I ate too much.

          Start the lovefest!

          • Ladydawnelle

            WB {{FERD}}

            • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

              Thanks, Dawnelle. It is good to be back (I needed the rest from a hectic vacation).

              • PainKillerJayne

                Welcome back Ferd!!!!!!!!!!!

                Hope vacation was relaxing, now get back to your snarky bad self!

                • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                  Evening, PK. I’m working on it.

                  • JustMe~~

                    Yes you were sure missed Ferd!! & Katmoon and if I had known you were in SF I would of invited you for dinner!!

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      JustMe:

                      Thanks for the thought. We really had a great time there. In spite of what the rest of the country says, I found SF to be great, although I did gain 12 pounds in 8 days (which I am diligently working off). I got a lot of ideas there for the garden I’m working on.

                      Ferd

                    • JustMe~~

                      Wonderful….12lbs in 8 days guess the food was good lol.

                      I love SF one place I go to relax unwind……
                      The street entertainers the views etc seem to have a way of letting you forget the crazy world out there. Simply to walk Pier 39 allows you to see life from a different angle for a few hours!

                      Good luck with your garden…

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      Simply to walk Pier 39 allows you to see life from a different angle for a few hours!

                      Pier 39 was great as was the weather. We bought a lot of purely fun stuff for friends back home.

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        Thank you for the kind words, Portia. I was on vacation.

        Ferd

        • Portia Elizabeth

          About time the two of you got back here! ;)

        • Donna “Abigail Adams” Brazile

          Damn! Next time you go on vacation, give your peeps a heads up! Glad your back and ready to get crack-a-lackin’ :-)

          Start the diss Obotfest!

          • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

            My bad, Donna.

            I’m dissing away at the obots.

    • Seattle Moss

      As much as I love Ferd and his wife Katmoon on this issue we have disagreed.
      I respect his view as he has always been a gentlemen to me when disagreeing.
      This is a bad time for revisionists and those that hoped for investigations based on warped sense of what defines values.

      The warped sense of righteousness in protecting a few terrorists rights while potentially sacrificing the lives of thousands of american lives is an immoral viewpoint.

      The tide has turned and the revisionists have lost!

      • Animal Control

        The “patriot” spout his bull again–drinking early in the afternoon I suspect.

        • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

          Yea, and everyone said he was not a socialist and would be a moderate all through the campaign. He was editor of the Harvard law review, yet he never wrote a paper which every editor does. In fact where is ANY paper he wrote while in college. His wife’s is online, where is his? The congress went out of their way to check out McCain because of where he was born, why did they not check out Obama? And even better, we all know there are people who know the truth. The CIA, other governments, some probably not friendly to us. Just what will he do to keep them quiet when they threaten to release the information? I guess that is what is costing so much with his lawyers. No not drinking, I dont like kool-aid.

      • Docelder

        Hey Seattle, the thing is our broadest and most fragile of alliances here were based primarily on disdain for Obama. Once everybody in general starts to see the truth about him, we will see those most fragile of bonds here shatter, as they will no longer be needed… provided they aren’t replaced with new and stronger bonds. I am still with you Seattle, in that I still believe that we will see this country returned to being a country of and for the people. I wish we could have seen the birth of a third party out of this. Maybe we still will. How is the garden? ;)

        • Seattle Moss

          Hey Doc

          I wouldn’t want to be a revisionist right now.
          Like watching little kids pounding sand.
          I’m having a great weekend!

          I knew Cheney had the goods and executed with magnificence his response to the wimp.

          I enjoy watching things grow in the garden almost as much as I like seeing Cheney growing in prominence once again to the chagrin of others.

          • Docelder

            Revision gave us Bush. We reveled as a nation in the fact that he went to bed at 9 p.m. Revision gave us Obama. The nation reveled that he was “not Bush”. Revision has a big downside. Good to see you.

      • Katmoon

        Hiya Seattle;

        As Dave Mason would say, “We Just Disagree”-there ain’t no good guys there ain’t no bad guys. (Hugs to you), we have a mutual foundation of love for our country.

  • Tess

    Yes, BUT: In today’s NYT print edition, Allessandra Stanley isn’t buying hopey-changey (for one of the first times). For instance, in analyzing back-to-back speeches, “a showdown between biography and experience”; and “Mr. Obama sought Thursday to distance himself from the policies of the past — and ended up reliving it.” Cheney seems to be the only Republican taking on Obama effectively, regardless of how I view him – and he’s getting noticed.
    I noticed TOTUS’ references to how long and boring the speech was. And someone (TOTUS or comment) wondered whether the terrorists ought to be able to choose between waterboarding and listening to yesterday’s Ospeech.
    AND a commenter named “Red” called the O “Fauxbama”.
    I’ll take what I can get here, if only people will wake up to the Chicago thug.

  • Yeah Right

    Damn Larry,

    you sound disgruntled. You sound like many other people (mainly liberals) who see that Cheney made good points and his points are resonating with a lot of people so what you want to do is to try your best to discredit Cheney.

    Sorry, it ain’t gonna happen. You can’t bash a man who has already been bashed too death! And in spite of the constant bashing, he is still relevant and is putting Obama on the defensive!

    Say what you want about Cheney but I am beginning to see that he and his daughter, Liz, who is a GREAT debator, are forces to be reckoned with! I can’t say that I like the guy but I am beginning to respect him and his game.

  • Retired

    I, for one, was kind of hoping that Mr. Cheney would ride off into the sunset gracefully. It appears that such is not to be the case.
    Dick, retire to Wyoming and enjoy that beautiful part of the country. History will judge the Bush presidency and your role within it the same regardless of what you say now.
    Great speech making aside, we really don’t know how President Obama will meet the challenge of global terrorism in terms of action taken. There is virtually nothing that you can do about that, however. Like the rest of us, you can watch and live with the result, good or bad.
    Although I am not an Obama supporter politically, I am hoping for his success as President in defending America against those who seek to destroy us. Any American who hopes for his failure in this regard is, in my opinion, an incredibly misguided fool.
    Take a break, Dick, give it a rest. You’ve had your run. Now it’s their turn.

  • ziggy

    IMHO Mr. Johnson is dead on target about the first 9 months of the Bush/Cheney administration.

    I remember sitting at work on the morning of 9/11, watching the television we’d rolled out, as the first tower came down. The room was full of people. The only response was stunned silence, then a whispered, heartfelt Jesus Christ. A moment passed. My boss asked, “Who could have done this?” Without missing a beat, I said “Osama bin Laden”. It was a name that instantly popped into my head. The boss gave me a totally blank look.

    The point being that anyone who had been paying close attention to the news for the previous year already knew who Osama bin Laden was and what sort of threat he represented. While the specific event was a surprise, the answer to my boss’s question seemed immediately obvious. In retrospect, so were the targets and the mode of attack. Seeing the specific event would have required only a little more imagination than I’d applied as a reasonably well-informed civilian.

    Bush/Cheney were totally asleep at the switch. The previous administration had tried to warn them.

    • Portia Elizabeth

      Ah, ziggy. First of all, while I love Bill Clinton enough to vote him in for a 3rd term if I could, it would be naive to think the whole 9/11 plot was hatched after Bush took office. The first attack on the WTC was 1993. Clinton had 7 years to find and eliminate Bin Laden. Why do you hold Bush responsible for not taking him down in 8 months? Mind you, I cheered when the Dixie Chicks made that famous comment in London. But even I don’t lay all the blame for 9/11 on Bush/Cheney.

      • ziggy

        I blame Bush/Cheney for remaining oblivious and doing nothing for 8 months, despite serious efforts to warn them. I’m not saying it’s all their fault, but they clearly let down our guard at the very time danger was increasing. This makes Cheney’s repeated claims that they kept America safe very difficult to swallow.

        • Docelder

          Zig, you know the only one not blamed in this whole thread is Bin Laden. Why we insist on blaming the victims… (ourselves) and our leaders at the time for this crime against us is beyond me. Did Bush & Co. overreact? Probably yes, but was it done with good intentions? I think it was. I think history will find that it was. The thing is can we learn anything useful from any of this? Or, has it all been for naught?

      • tek

        P:ortia Elizabeth: stop repeating that ignorant crap about Clinton not trying to find Bin Laden. Don’t you people ever read or watch any news or documentaries. He made a huge effort to find Bin Laden and take him out. Then Rush Limbaugh made up all the garbage about him finding Bin Laden and not following through. Also, if the Republicans hadn’t been tying up the President, trying to impeach for a personal, moral offense that they are all guilty of themselves he probably would have got the guy.

        Bill Clinton was the best president ever, the end. He should be annointed Benevolent Monarch of the United States. Obviously, democracy is defunct since 2000.

        • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

          I’ll have to look up the link but in 1998, Senator Trench-Mouth Lott accused Clinton of trying to divert attention away from the Lewinsky scandal by going after bin Laden. I guess old gutter-mouth wasn’t too concerned about bin Laden until it suited HIM.

          Anyone who criticizes Clinton better have something to say about the other side, as well.

        • Portia Elizabeth

          Exactly where in my comment did I say Clinton did not try to find Bin Laden?

          Reading with comprehension isn’t your forte, is it, tek?

          • tek

            You said Clinton had seven years to find Bin Laden (italicized) and didn’t, as if he never made an effort. Read what you write, much?

            • Portia Elizabeth

              Let me repeat: reading with comprehension isn’t your forte.

              Yes, I said Clinton had 7 years to find Bin Laden. At no time did I say he did not try. Which totally makes my point that Bush could not do it in 8 months.

              Do you understand now, or should I put it in monosyllables for you?

            • Portia Elizabeth

              Here, I’ll save you a reply.

              Bill tried and tried to find the bad man. He could not do it. He searched and searched for more than six years. Bush had just eight months. Eight months is less than six years. Much less. Do you get it now?

              • Animal Control

                Well just go ahead and talk to yourself. Then you’ll never disagree and both way’s you’re always right. Nice hey?

                • Clinton4evah

                  And you feel the need to snark because?

            • Clinton4evah

              She said she loved Clinton. What part of that don’t you understand?

    • mommakk

      Bush/Cheney were totally asleep at the switch. The previous administration had tried to warn them.

      What should they (Bush/Cheney) have done then,with those warnings? Do you think they could push some magic button and a security blanket would have covered America to keep out the invaders?

  • Ellen D

    It is disappointing after everything that people know about Dick Cheney that people would respect him or his opinions in any way.

    I am completely baffled. It is like the whole country is one big American Idol machine that supports people for emotional illogical reasons and can turn on a dime and then support someone who expounds the exact opposite viewpoint.

    I support Richard Clarke, Valerie Plame, all the women who got the Profiles in Courage awards, and anyone else who is objective and logical and courageous, forming their opinions from their head and not their sometimes unreliable hearts.

    • ces

      +1

      Thanks.

    • Wisewoman

      Ellen D. I read that the Obama administration is taking the same position regarding the Valarie Plame lawsuit as the Bush administration. He has instructed the Justice department to brief the court in that manner. LARRY ARE YOU INCENSED ABOUT THAT? PLEASE WRITE A POST. For the Obama fans on this site if Cheney’s positions are terriblly wrong then so is Obama’s since he is mimicking the Bush/Cheney administration.

      • CG

        Obama is punishing Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame for not first supporting Obama?? Just like he won’t invite Krugman to the table to talk about the economy or health care. And for Obama to suggest prolonged/permanent detention makes me seriously wonder. Feingold wrote to Obama today, a pdf link of letter here http://feingold.senate.gov/pdf/ltr_obama_052209.pdf about prolonged detention.

    • ConfusedAmerican

      Strange you should say that….Hey look at who we elected for President—-Mr No Past…No Birth Certificate..Mr Appaled at America….(List goes on).

      Sorry but I think I would rather trust someone that I feel cares about America instead of someone who apparently is appalled by America.

  • JanetMc

    Larry – as usual, you are right on target. I’m glad I’m not the only person who thinks it’s crazy that Cheney is taking credit for keeping us safe while they let 9/11 happen and did nothing to stop it.

  • rickrickrick

    who knew Obama could make Cheney look good. He must be the Messiah!

    • Mandelay

      That was funny, rickrickrick! Thanks for a much-needed giggle!

      • Ladydawnelle

        ROFLOL

        and where is FERD?? I heard Truth teller was also kicked to the curb? (2nd post)

    • http://noquarter foxyladi14

      ha,ha,lol

  • gianni

    This is Obama’s strategy, to continue saying that was must move forward and not look back, while at the same time blaming all the problems he is facing on Bush-Cheney. The guy is a two-faced weasel. He deserves nothing but scorn and derision. He is also a fraud, and for that reason should not be respected as POTUS.

    • IndianaDem

      A lot of the problems the country has got to deal with now are left overs from 8 years of Bush-Cheney–either problems their policies created or problems resulting from their neglect: Iraq, uncharged detainees in the legal limbo of Gitmo, torture and the nation’s attendant loss of the moral high ground, the many problems resulting from the methodical hobbling of our regulatory agencies (Do you really feel safe flying on U.S. commercial aircraft now?), the world’s most fuel-inefficient motor fleet, a general decline of scientific literacy, a horribly neglected national infrastructure, etc etc…

      Can we really blame the guy who’s trying to deal with all chickens that are finally coming home to roost for periodically reminding us that he’s not the one who set them loose in the first place? It seems like a farily reasonable response when the non-cooperative, finally-out-of-power, obstructionist opposition keeps trying to attribute them to him.

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        Can we really blame the guy who’s trying to deal with all chickens that are finally coming home to roost for periodically reminding us that he’s not the one who set them loose in the first place? It seems like a farily reasonable response when the non-cooperative, finally-out-of-power, obstructionist opposition keeps trying to attribute them to him.

        He blame-shifts as much as Dubya and Cheney did so “Yes We can” when That One is working on the same page as his predecessor as he is Dubya with a tan (the difference is only skin-deep) and has a TOTUS for lip-service.

  • gianni

    This is Obama’s strategy, to continue saying that we must move forward and not look back, while at the same time blaming all the problems he is facing on Bush-Cheney. The guy is a two-faced weasel. He deserves nothing but scorn and derision. He is also a fraud, and for that reason should not be respected as POTUS.

    • Animal Control

      If I ever get in trouble with the law, I’ll tell the judge I want to move forward and not look back.

      Think he/she will buy it?

      • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

        After the last supreme court ruling that there is no identity theft or fraud for an illegal alien to use someone’s name, social whatever as long as they did not know it belonged to someone.
        So I thought about going out to steal something and I would just tell the judge that I did not know who it belonged to therefore it is OK right?

        • Docelder

          as long as they did not know

          Which is darn convenient if you never intend to learn to read and write in English.

        • tek

          patriotparty: LOL! That’s the stuff. Wonder if all legal citizens just ignore the fines and summons from whatever misdemeanors we commit and say, well, it’s just a misdemeanor, that’s not really a crime.

          Mexican Mantra: illegal entry is only a misdemeanor.

  • Dutch

    I am tired of Obama whining that he inherited all this. I don’t like Cheney either, but at least he is taking Obama to task (lord knows somebody has to) and for that I will champion him. There is no one out there who will challenge anything that Obama does. With all his out of control spending our country is going to hell in a hand basket and yet hordes of people still consider him our only hope (my personal nightmare). No one here knows all there is to know about 9/11 and no one administration was totally responsible for it. I do hold Bush/Cheney responsible for the illigitimate Iraq War but I want to see Obama stop blaming everyone and start taking responsibility for his job NOW. He was elected (supposedly) to bring about change and all he has brought about is venom and blame. What’s done is done and the longer we live in the past the longer we go without solving the problems of today. Quit your bitching and go forward – this country will go belly up if we don’t.

    • Clinton4evah

      Agree 100%. Cheney has no career worries if he rattles Obama’s cage. He can afford to call him out since he doesn’t have to worry about getting re-elected.

  • ConfusedAmerican

    Hey I trully would love to see Obama do or say something that would make our country better or healthier.
    Yet Obama has done nothing but raise the national debt way more than anyone ever thought possible, along with make a mockery of our nation on his out of the country trips.

  • Maria

    Larry your quote “THEY DEMOTED RICHARD CLARKE, THEY DOWN GRADED THE COUNTER TERRORISM ISSUE AT THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL” Well if Clinton was in office for 8 years which may I add the killings of Americans overseas and the bomb on our twin towers basement in 1993, then he should of listened to Richard Clarke and should have striked at Bin Landen when giving the chance. But of course if Clinton would have done that; people would of came down on him. Now, I like Clinton along with Bush and Chaney, I believe that we can’t blame anyone but the TERRORIST themselves. We are fighting with evil, they will never have a different aspect or be convince of what a great nation this is with our freedom, liberty, and principals. Terrorist have stated that they want a one world religion, “Islamic Muslims”.
    Also, please understand people make mistakes, we are all humans and each administration has to do better then from the previous.
    What I do agree with the Chaney policy of security is that we have a Guantanamo instead of the Clinton Administration which were sent to Egypt and you all know what they do. At least in Guantanamo they get fed 3 times a day and are not killed. But please remember this, it’s either their lifes or ours.

    • elise

      Maria, according to sworn testimony by Eric Holder and Leon Panetta, the Clinton renditions did not include “Black Sites” and there was no transfer to any country where torture was used. The “Extraordinary Renditions” of the Bush administration made people disappear without revealing their detention to the Red Cross for humanitarian purposes. If you have some link to reliable sources of this happening while Clinton was president, would you please provide it for our edification?

  • ugo

    Please I need to know:

    If you know that a person is willing to die and kill you while he is killing himself.

    What will you do?

    Those who forget their, always regrets.

    • Docelder

      Yes, and how do you fight somebody that has absolutely nothing they care about losing? It is easy to criticize tactics, but then devise better tactics of your own first. Then criticize the existing ones. The sad thing is, we have already forgotten the usable lessons from 9-11.

    • ces

      Well, one thing you don’t do is kill somebody else in another country, in his/her stead.

  • Maria

    james, those statements are not fact or have proven. The only thing right about the Bush is that they dismantaled all of Clinton’s programs which was good because IT WASN’T WORKING! Hellooo, our twin towers were hit in 1993 (6 dead), many Americans that died overseas that attacked our people. Bush was just stepping in with 9 month which Republicans along with Democrats failed to have the CIA along with the FBI to share the intelligance of terrorism. Stop the blame game and with opinions of statements. Facts are facts and waterbording (3) gave facts on preventing an attack in our land.
    What do you guys really think they should have gotten a lawyer (which prevents them from talking) which also takes time along with court hearings? We would right now be talking about not only 911 but other attacks that were prevented.

    • IndianaDem

      You might want to go back and review Clinton’s persistent efforts to focus our intelligence and law enforcement agencies on terrorism in general and Osama bin Laden in particular, against the opposition of a Republican majority congress. As I clearly recall, during his final couple of years Republicans were openly asserting Clinton’s focus on bin Laden and terrorism was just an attempt to distract from that Monumentally Important Monic Lewinski affair. You might also want to review the Bush administration’s undoing of much of Clinton’s agency terrorism focus via budgetary reallocations during their first 8 months in office. They thought fighting the War on Drugs was more important.

    • tek

      Maria: just keep telling yourself that, it’ll all be okay.

    • ces

      Tell that to Richard Clarke.

    • Animal Control

      You said whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

  • Chris Vosburg

    Told ya, Larry.

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    Cheney is a con man. Bush is a narcissistic boob.

    Bush is on record (quoted by several individuals) as saying that he wanted to be a WAR President. He LOVED playing dress up. We also know that bush feels the need to compete with his daddy and prove he has the biggest Penis — some little boys do that all their lives. America has been living through a psychodrama of put on by the dysfunctional bush family.

    We know now that bush was given warning — really enough warning that many of the hijackers could have been caught or at least stopped from carrying out their mission. One of the reasons September 11 was a day we will remember is because bush and cheney dismissed the warnings of seasoned professionals — and the outgoing Clinton administration. There was a now famous briefing paper PLUS personal visits from top spooks to bush during his “vacation” at his estate in Texas.

    Cheney has made a ton of money off of the war that he and bush forced on America — he probably wanted the war as much as bush and rummy did.

    WHAT is Cheney’s real agenda — his hidden agenda for stepping forward to take the point on defending the bush/cheney administration?

    As Larry demonstrated in the snips from Cheney’s speech — there was an over use of 9/11 — he must have some of the same slime balls as speech writers as his cousin 0zero. Cheney wasn’t using logic — he was slamming the country with psychological warfare.

    Neither 0zero no Cheney like facts — they are master manipulators — and they will use fear as a weapon — 9/11 is the biggest weapon either side has and both will keep hammering the fear message — UNTIL the words no longer hold the same meaning.

    One thing about the fight or flight fear response is that a CONTINUAL exposure to the fear stimulus (over use of “9/11″) will eventually make the public not respond in a knee jerk fashion to the stimulus.

    Cheney is a self serving jerk — and so is his cousin 0zero — both are liars and con men. Neither can be trusted or believed.

  • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

    The SPAM MONSTER ATE MY COMMENT.

    • http://! stodgie

      burp! that was good! smile! sorry northwest rain, the giggle monster got me there! i have had some of mine not make out in public also lately. and none of them were inflammatory! strange!

      • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

        Rather than retyping or reposting — I thought if I put a note up that the hall monitors would check the spam deposit or where ever or missing comments go and post.

        Susan suggests that we not repost — to let them know that there is a problem. Spammy is supposed to learn by having his ill gotten bones taken away so that he’ll only go after the real spam/junk.

      • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

        Spammy got another comment.

        Today is NOT my day according to Spammy monster.

        I think Susan knows that Spammy has a problem — and with the multiple remarks from many it seems that this is a real pain in the neck day to get a comment posted.

        Spammy is still in training.

    • TeakwoodKite

      Mine too..

  • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

    Let’s see. When Bush/Cheney were leaving us unproteched for 9/11 and then lead the charge on Iraq, WHERE WERE THE DEMS?

    Oh, that’s right. Kissing Bush/Cheney’s ass, giving them a blank check for war and then DID NOTHING ON THE FOLLOW UP WHEN IT WAS APPARENT THAT THEY LIED ABOUT IRAQ INTELLIGENCE.

    Impeachment was off the table, remember? It’s pretty lame for Dems to beat their chest about Cheney now 8 years after the fact when at the time the only thing they could muster was “thank you sir, may I have another”.

    What’s worse than Cheney is the pathetic display the Dems exhibited after 9/11.

    • Animal Control

      Lame is as good a word as any. But sometimes I think it borders on treason considering the Constitutional oath they all take.

    • tek

      Electric Bugaloo: I agree with you more than anyone else. Why are we worrying about investigating and prosecuting now? The Dems could have impeached Bush and Cheney and made all their corruption public, but noooo. Nancy wouldn’t have it. Wonder why? Maybe she was complicit and KNEW ABOUT THE TORTURE?

      I have not one shred of respect for the Obama Democrats. They are people who voted to impeach their own president because he had a nooner in oval office. Then, when the opposition’s president actually committed high crimes and treason against the Constitution and the American people, they refused to investigate.

      • Animal Control

        when the opposition’s president actually committed high crimes and treason against the Constitution and the American people, they refused to investigate.

        Pitifull, aint it!

    • TeakwoodKite

      I wish these Go’ulds would go back to the gate address from whence they came.

      Cheney is an immoral man. So is BO. They have much in common.

      • ces

        +! for SG-1 reference….

        (I was down for a week with a virus…watched about 30 episodes on hulu.com…woohoo!!)

    • IndianaDem

      Let’s see. When Bush/Cheney were leaving us unproteched for 9/11 and then lead the charge on Iraq, WHERE WERE THE DEMS?

      They were in the minority–as they had been during Clinton’s term of office, and as they remained until January 2007.

      The final years of Clinton’s administration, republicans seemed far more interested in nailing Bill Clinton than worrying about terrorists. Now they’ve shifted their focus to Barack Obama and assert the democratic Congress and the President don’t keep us safe from terrorists.

      They also left an economy spinning out of control, 8 years of record deficits, and two ungoing wars in their wake–and now blame all of that on a democratic majority that’s only been present for a little over two years, and a new democratic President that’s been on the job for less than 6 months, who’s basically been given the job of clean-up and damage control.

      Forgive me if I find many of their arguments disingenuous and their non-constructive attacks less than useful. They should focus on their most useful message, which would ring truer if they hadn’t disregarded it themselves for 8 years: The need for federal fiscal responsibility. That message would resonate across party lines.

  • (trying to get over it)

    an interesting take on the dueling speeches: blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/05/21/the_10_punches_dick_cheney_landed_on_barack_obamas_jaw

    • Clinton4evah

      The comments after that article are so harsh I bet Obama’s jug ears are burning.

  • tek

    Larry: this is a great article and your point is well-taken. Even if 9/11 conspiracy theories are not allowed in blogs and the press, there is no getting around the FACT that Bush and Cheney had intellingence documents warning them of an impending Al Quaeda attack that would be hijacked airlines. They completely ignored it. I read the safety reports on all American airline companies prior to the attacks. The administration had to know our airports were not secure, but they ignored that as well.

    Did they think it wasn’t a real threat? Did they want a disaster to solidify their power? The Neoconservative Manifesto states clearly that the group needed a national disaster to frighten the American People into accepting the sweeping power grab Cheney and Rumsfeld had planned.

    Dick Cheney is an evil person and so is his stupid wife.

  • tek

    Oh, and after Katrina, I decided Bush’s national policy was The Policy of Disaster: let disasters befall the American People and then capitalize on it.

    • Ladydawnelle

      right we can’t forget KATRINA

      or Gonzalez (partisan hack)
      or Rummie (and his “Known Unknowables”) lol
      or Rove, Cheney & Libby (the Wilson’s will never forget)
      FOley, Cunningham, Hastert, Delay, the list is endless

      then we have the SAME Congress (109th I believe) that put UP with all of that, THEN threatened to INVESTIGATE and PROSECUTE as soon as they had the POWER THENnnnnnnnnnnnn drop the whole idea like a hot potato when they realized (ala Chainsaw) that the D’s were just or nearly as culpable (for putting up with it at the very least) or should have DUG A LITTLE DEEPER.

      I don’t trust ANY of them. The NEW batch of DEMS started OFF (it appeared) all gung ho and ready to “bring the troops home” WTF???

      sigh

      so many promises broken
      so little time to repair the damage

      • Animal Control

        That is exactly where we start. By not forgetting!

  • CT

    If you insist on prosecuting this straw man, then perhaps you could comment on Bill Clinton lobbing a few Tomahawks into an aspirin factory, in order to take Monika Lewinski off the headlines. If I’m not mistaken, part of 9/11 was payback for that solitary act of indiscretion, which was the culmination of multiple indiscretions committed by Mr. Clinton.

    Regardless, Radical Islam does not tally body counts by presidential administration. Rather, they want all of us dead, whether liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, Christian, Jewish, or atheist — and they will stop at nothing to achieve their goal.

    • tek

      CT: you are mistaken. Give it a rest.

  • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

    Excellent commentary, Larry. As for that coward Cheney-he is a war criminal as far as I’m concerned.

    I’m sure one troll or two will resurface my July 2001 op-ed in a bid to distract from my basic point.

    The Obamabots and Bushbots are so anal-retentive and control-freakish by nature that they would rather soil their undergarments than listen to anything of substance from those with opposing points of view. In a word, they stink.

    • http://! stodgie

      and berfle we are the majority! they’d better start listening to us. we are running out of patience!

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        That’s for sure. I’m sick of the party-line schtick. I saw on Fox today that independents now outnumber both democrats and republicans.

        • Ladydawnelle

          Gallup

          but I tend to believe this one

          (maybe cuz I’m a PUMA UNA and WANT to believe)

          lol or maybe cuz it’s true

          • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

            PUMA, for sure.

            Was it Gallup? I thought it was Pew. Either way.

  • Katmoon

    After a trip across country last week, I would like to give a little take I have on National security. We were at the airport in Sacto, Ca., A man left his baggage for about ten minutes, wandered off. I told the airline agent, and I moved myself away from his luggage; maybe seems silly, but it took me by surprise that anyone would do this, frankly the man scared me with his nonchelant attitude at this point in time. The airline agent could have cared less. A half hour later the flight was canceled due to mechanical parts needing to be replaced. When we processed out of and back into the boarding area, having to pass through security again, I asked the TSA agent at the station about the situation, and why no one had followed up. He seemed surprised and told me that this was not the normal practice and the airline agent should have called for TSA. However he did not ask for further information, etc.(was the man still with the original flight group-he was).Why bring this up? It has a similarity to our political climate. We have had obvious, serious problems in our national security. Some knew, some probably not, yet we do not apply the same standard across the board to both parties and hold them all responsible. Just like the airline agent, our government is our “employee” whom we have hired and entrusted to see to safety, security, etc, on our behalf. All it takes is one person to drop the ball, or lie, mislead, whatever the flavor of the week is. It only takes one person to take away our decency by condoning and adopting torture, it only takes one person to fomate the distraction needed to get away with criminal activity in the name of the American people. Enough is enough. It stopped being about party when the DNC ate our hearts for breakfast. All politicians are suspect, as certainly it is rare somone actually comes out on behalf of the people of this country prior to the allegance of their own party.

    • http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

      Basically airport security is a joke — low paid people doing a boring job — who really don’t know what they are doing. Many also get off on a power trip and make travel sort of like traveling in the old Iron Curtain Countries.

      The only thing that airport security is good for is to make a few shaky people feel “secure”. Thus women and mostly the elderly are forced to be treated like potential terrorists. Forcing a 94 year old woman to take off her shoes is STUPID — especially when she wears special shoes that take 30 minutes to put on in the mornings.

      I think many Americans need to be threatened and frightened by THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT in order to feel “safe”.

      Right now we need to be protected from CONGRESS and 0zero’s gang!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY are more threatening to our well being and security than the risk we face from foreign terrorists.

      • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

        Agreed.

        Safety is only a feeling which cannot be defined in any sort of absolute fashion. Frankly, I’d rather have all my rights under the Constitution than have some nebulous feeling of “safety”. I am more likely to be struck by lightning thrice than ever be killed by a terrorist. So where’s the war on lightning?

        • PainKillerJayne

          I still get on jetliners with lighters………They can take them from me but I won’t give them up .

          • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

            I still get on jetliners with lighters……

            So do I. However, it does depend on where you board. In Baltimore, MD, Knoxville, TN, Denver, CO, and Pasco, WA they confiscate lighters. In Sacramento, however, they allow butane lighters that have a wheel and flint. Go figure.

      • Katmoon

        Makes you wonder how the new passport requirements will be handled.
        http://travel.state.gov/passport/passport_1738.html

        All persons traveling by air are required to present a passport or other valid travel document to enter or re-enter the United States.

    • TeakwoodKite

      My belt buckle goes off passing security at JFK but not SFO. What does that tell you?

  • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

    In addition to keeping us safe from terra’ists, Dickless Cheney also takes credit for the following:

    1) That the sun coming up every morning during his tenure in hiding
    2) That no asteroids hit the earth during his tenure under some unknown rock
    3) That no significant solar flares occurred during his flight from reality
    4) That he shot no other people during his attempt at hunting disabled quail
    5) That he only unleashed the f-bomb at 1 sitting senator but many times at little Dubya.
    6) That bin Laden is still on the lam oopsie… he’ll probably deny that bin Laden is loose.

    And the lies keep on a-comin’.

  • viking

    I believe Cheney is right and LJ is wrong. Sorry for the defection from correct-think.

    The Bush admin did a terrible, awful disservice to the American people by failing to explain why and what to us regarding the Iraq war. Then they passively sat back and let the NYT, et al. tar them grossly. Back then, I, for one believed the meme that Bush/Cheney were tyrannizing the USA.

    The way I’ve come to see it now, Bush and Cheney were steered by bad directors of publicity more than any bad policies. I know I’m a minority voice here and that’s okay too. I understand other peoples’ positions, they were once mine but my understanding has changed.

    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

      Blazing Britches Cheney is a liar. He wrapped himself in a flag he never served as he is an unconscionable coward, no patriot, and a sorry excuse for a human being. Every time that crap artist speaks, he weakens the nation.

      • viking

        With due respect, I disagree. Cheney’s authentic heft and gravitas are palpable to anyone who has seen the speech. I don’t doubt that he’s privately profited, they all do. I don’t think that’s okay nor do I condone it, but its there.

        • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

          I stand by my comment. Heft and gravitas cannot come from a coward who found lots of ways to shirk real duty. His only claim to fame is an ability to sneer out of both sides of his mouth, tell formidable whoppers, and do a great chicken little impersonation with his sky-is-falling routine. McCain is a patriot and hero. Cheney, not so much.

          And if this “war on terror” is so important and we are in such dire straits, then why didn’t they call for a draft and go after the terrorists and bin Laden rather than our Constitution and associated rights? Oh, silly me, it wasn’t about terrorism in the first place as he and Shrub just needed cover for looting the treasury.

          Nice try but I’m not buying anything Cheney has to sell.

          • Seattle Moss

            And if this “war on terror” is so important and we are in such dire straits, then why didn’t they call for a draft and go after the terrorists

            Last time I looked we are winning this UNCONVENTIONAL war which doesn’t need a draft. This war is won by using strategy not used in conventional warfare
            Flushing out the terrorists for certain defeat by having them fight their jihad in Iraq was simply Brilliant.
            Another reason we haven’t been hit since 911.

            What we can look forward to now is a personal heroic account of all who played a part in keeping us safe since 911.
            The villains are now the hero’s and each will tell their story of what they did after the attacks to protect America.
            All will get their day of vindication
            People now realize that we are not safe with Obama and will now reflect respectfully and honorably on those that did keep us safe.
            Where I come from we call that..

            Tables Turned!

            • viking

              “This war is won by using strategy not used in conventional warfare
              Flushing out the terrorists for certain defeat by having them fight their jihad in Iraq was simply Brilliant.
              Another reason we haven’t been hit since 911.”

              I fully agree, Seattle.

              • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                Where is bin Laden?

                Thumbing his nose at Cheney’s superior strategy.

                • Seattle Moss

                  You can keep your ghost who promised his followers that he would be a martyr within two years after 911.

                  I will thank Cheney and Bush for keeping us safe after 911.

                  One thing you revisionists can never take away is the fact that we have not been attacked again.
                  Cheney owns those words.

                  • Katmoon

                    I will only thank our soldiers.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      However you come to the same conclusion is entirely up to you….

                    • Katmoon

                      Not coming to any conclusion, just remembering Memorial day and what it is about.

                  • viking

                    We’ve captured or killed swarms of bin ladens over the last 8 years – doesn’t that count for anything in your view? Really?

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      “Dead or Alive comes to mind”. “Yer fer us or with the terrorists” comes to mind. Seems to me that both Bush and Cheney also said he was not relevant or words to that effect after the invasion of Afghanistan. Of course, the Spaniards would disagree.

                      Frankly, I don’t a tinker’s cuss about “swarms of bin Ladens” when the real bin Laden is still on the loose.

                      That so-called strategy had an apt adjective:

                      bush-league

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Bin Laden
                      The last place for a Bush hater to go run and hide.

                    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                      Bin Laden
                      The last place for a Bush hater to go run and hide.

                      Now I’m wondering about your sanity, Seattle. Your use of the “Bush and Cheney” kept us safe mantra is just as moronic as the hopey-changey crapola coming from the obamabots.

                      I’m done with your hysteria over a group of rag-tag malcontents and misfits that you find so dangerous that you would have this country violate its own principles and Constitution just so YOU can feel “safe”.

                      I’m more likely to be struck thrice by lightning than to ever be harmed by a terrorist. Where’s that war on lightning? Cell-phones and driving are more dangerous. Where’s the war on cell-phones. Christ, give this shit a rest, will you?

                      I’m done with your sky-is-falling bs.

                      Good day.

                    • viking

                      “a group of rag-tag malcontents and misfits”

                      I gotta say that I think you’re grossly underestimating the threat. You seem to think that 9/11 was an anomoly. Jihadists are not an aberration like say, a Kozyinski or McVeigh. The threat they pose is not a hoax.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      There you have it Viking
                      One group of people believe in the threat of Islamic Jihad on western civilization
                      and the other group think it’s only as dangerous as driving while on a cell phone.

                      Maybe there’s a few more cards missing from that deck…

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      Seattle there IS an intersect of these two positions.

                    • viking

                      If you believe the threat was a hoax and that Bush and Cheney merely hyped the hoax for looting purposes, then you arrive, I think, at BFB’s position. The MSM have been pushing that meme since the WMDs weren’t discovered in Iraq. Clearly, that’s a truncated analysis of what has been achieved by the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.

                  • Docelder

                    Yes, like I said the other day… 10 year olds are putting better quality videos on youtube every day than the few videos bin Laden has been able to string together. As to blaming Bush-Cheney for 9-11… can you even imagine Bush and Cheney trying to pass the security we had after 9-11 before 9-11 happened? People would have ridiculed them for even suggesting it. I say that with full confidence because just eight years after 9-11 happened, we have people now ridiculing that same security.

                  • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

                    Facts are pesky things and I speak the truth. This strategy was a complete failure. It didn’t work, won’t work. and is folly. bin Laden is loose and Cheney’s smoke-and-mirrors routine can’t change that fact. If it was such a great strategy, then why are we still at war? It worked so f-ing well that we now have two wars in lieu of one.

                    Great strategy, there. Hell, why not go for three of four wars? We could have invaded each member state of of the axis of evil and claimed how they were keeping us safe.

                    LMAO

                    That we haven’t been attacked may or may not have anything to do with the Bush Administration at all. That is the patented post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I didn’t buy it then and am not buying it now. You may as well say that the sun rose as well due to Bush and Cheney because it is the same sort of argument.

                    • viking

                      “That we haven’t been attacked may or may not have anything to do with the Bush Administration at all.”

                      To whom or what what do you attribute it then?

                    • Seattle Moss

                      I bet ferd didn’t even watch Cheney’s speech in it’s entirety.
                      One reason why I’m successful is because I’m a good judge of character and I know when somebody is lying.

                      Cheney wasn’t lying the other day.

                      You revisionist’s are lying and guess what….Your losing!

                    • Katmoon

                      What’s with the “you” revisionists, thing?

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Revisionism is an industry which is about to fall on hard times.

                      Many here at NQ have a vested interest in seeing investigations and prosecutions of the war on terror.

                      Guess what ….Ain’t going to happen now!

                      If you were planning to make money with blogs and talk shows to keep this charade going you better change your plans

                      This country is going forward. Everybody that helped save American lives in what ever capacity will now have their story told without revisionists to spoil their heroism.

                    • viking

                      revisionist historians

                    • Katmoon

                      So you think this mother of a soldier is a revisionist? I asked why the “you”. This is because I disagree about torture?

                    • Seattle Moss

                      This has nothing to do with torture anymore….

                      When I see people not give the proper credit then I question their overall judgment as it is biased..

                      Obama and the democrats failed to acknowledge the success of the surge and thus showed their blind hate of Bush and this country.

                      Revisionists fail to give credit for the two thousand plus days that America hasn’t been attacked since 911.

                    • TeakwoodKite

                      Seattle Moss, a good weekend.

                      Question, what credit on the economy would you give the previous administration?

                      Just Curious.

                    • Seattle Moss

                      Not much now!

                      However, the most productive years for my industry and the customers I serve were during the Bush years up till Sept 15th.

                      For me safety trumps everything!
                      Without safety nothing is possible.

                      The world economic collapse is all of mankind’s fault and is part of a natural, albeit painful cycle of events.

                      Going forward Obama looks incredibly weak in all areas as we collectively continue to suffer the effects of this rookie clown.

                    • Docelder

                      If it was such a great strategy, then why are we still at war?

                      Because there are still radical Jihadists. We don’t have to be at war forever, only as long as we want to keep the fight on their soil. We can quit trying and the fight can come back here. I don’t like that plan, but it is a plan. If we go there, I am getting an acreage in the sticks, a ham radio and plant a big garden. Because that is the only way it will be safe to be American.

                    • viking

                      Exactly!

    • Clinton4evah

      hey viking, why has your understanding changed? what do you know that we don’t?

      • viking

        I don’t have any special, secret info. I have reassessed what info is out there that we all know, that’s all.

    • Seattle Moss

      I know I’m a minority voice here and that’s okay too. I understand other peoples’ positions, they were once mine but my understanding has changed.

      Exactly!

  • politicsisdirty

    Who do we trust this point and time in our history?

    Obama who can hardly make decisions or make decisions based on poll results or Cheney whose only concern is to show the recklessness of the current administration?

    Who can be trusted more in terms of National Security.

    We should clamor for the release of the “enhanced interrogation” to know whether the past admin has been succesfull in keeping this country safe.

    I am a democrat and don’t really trust Bush and Cheney before, but when compared to Obama and Biden and the way they are running this country plus their policies, my mind has changed

    • Benjamin Franklin Berfle

      I am a democrat and don’t really trust Bush and Cheney before, but when compared to Obama and Biden and the way they are running this country plus their policies, my mind has changed

      I’ve only changed my mind about the American electorate–they are as stupid as they appear since they have foisted two dogmatic, arrogant, ignorant fools on the country in a row. The lowest-common denominator has taken charge.

      • PainKillerJayne

        At this point in my life I trust no politician.

        • Animal Control

          I second that emotion.

          • PainKillerJayne

            Hiya Animal! :)

            • Animal Control

              Have a nice Memorial Day weekend everyone.

  • Babs

    Larry, your passion on this issue speaks for itself, whether or not I agree with you. However, let me explain something about those of us who do not share your level of passion. Most of us are, I’m pretty sure, involved on a daily basis with work and family and other activities that give us just so much extra time and energy to devote to our particular political passions. I choose to simplify and focus at this time in my life, simplify in terms of the myriad things I could get enraged about if I let myself go, and focus in terms of the one and only goal I have at this moment in time, getting rid of Barack Obama.
    Right now I personally just don’t have the time or the energy or the need to rehash our terror policies and who did what or knew what going all the way back to the Clinton years. My entire focus is today and tomorrow, and how we are going to get united as a force to combat the left wing assault on our glorious nation. We argue among ourselves constantly, taking our eyes off the prize as a result, and that dismays me greatly. Simplify, focus, and there will be plenty of time to rehash the past after we have all worked together to take our country back.

    • Portia Elizabeth

      Babs — well said! Thank you for putting things in context.

  • CG

    Exact account of Pelosi briefings elusive
    Lawmakers divided after reviewing agency’s notes on Pelosi session

    By Paul Kane and Joby Warrick
    The Washington Post
    updated 8:52 p.m. PT, Fri., May 22, 2009
    Sequestered in rooms buried deep within the Capitol and requiring top-secret clearances to enter, members of the House and Senate intelligence committees have spent the past week leafing through documents at the heart of Washington’s latest who-knew-what-and-when saga.

    But rather than emerging with clear agreement on what the memos reveal about the CIA briefing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi received in 2002, and whether she was aware that aggressive interrogation methods were being used on terrorism suspects, lawmakers remain as divided as ever about the story they tell.

    And unless those detailed documents prove to be more precise than some who have viewed them suggest — or until the CIA is willing to declassify them — it is possible that what Pelosi and other lawmakers learned almost seven years ago about the use of waterboarding and other techniques may never be definitively understood.

    Republicans who have seen the documents say they present a clear case that Pelosi (D-Calif.) was told about the waterboarding of a key al-Qaeda operative, rejecting her accusation that the CIA intentionally misled her about the interrogation technique, which simulates drowning. “I came away feeling comfortable in saying the speaker owes the [intelligence] community an apology at the least,” said Rep. Mike Rogers (Mich.), a former FBI agent.

    But Democrats, as well as some former intelligence officials, warn that the documents are far from definitive and reflect only after-the-fact recollections from CIA briefers who never intended to produce full transcripts of the sessions. “You can have a lot of interpretation either way,” said Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger (Md.), who said he “sped-read” the documents this week.

    Pitched battle
    Those documents, which were delivered to the intelligence panels last week, have become the latest front in the pitched battle to shape the legacy of the Bush administration’s use of “enhanced interrogation techniques.”

    Members of Congress are largely divided into two camps: One says that the CIA intentionally withheld information about the tactics it was already using against detainees, even as it was providing Congress with intelligence that led to an overwhelming bipartisan vote supporting the use of force in Iraq to rid Saddam Hussein of weapons of mass destruction. The other says that Pelosi is covering up her original tacit support of techniques that she now labels as torture.

    Pelosi and leading Republicans have asked for the briefing memos to be declassified, each side seeming to think their release will vindicate its cause. And on Thursday, House Democrats blocked a Republican effort to form a special committee to investigate Pelosi’s allegation that CIA officials misled her.

    But the speaker made clear yesterday that she does not intend to continue discussing the matter publicly. After a news conference devoted to the accomplishments of the Democratic Congress, she dismissed reporters’ questions about the controversy.

    “I have made the statement I am going to make on this. I don’t have anything more to say about it,” she said before departing for a week-long trip to China.

    Conflicting recollections
    The differing interpretations of the briefing memos mirror the conflicting recollections of Pelosi and three other congressional leaders about what they were told roughly a year after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.), the former representative who chaired the intelligence panel in 2002, has suggested that he and Pelosi left their briefing understanding “what the CIA was doing” and offering their support, while Pelosi said waterboarding and other aggressive techniques were mentioned only as legal tactics for future interrogations.

    Even more deeply divergent are the recollections of Bob Graham (D-Fla.), the former senator who chaired the Senate intelligence committee in 2002, and Sen. Richard C. Shelby (Ala.), the panel’s ranking Republican. In interviews this week, Graham said waterboarding was never mentioned by CIA briefers in their meeting. But Shelby said that he and Graham were specifically told that the technique had already yielded valuable information.

    The CIA participated in more than 2,100 congressional briefings and meetings during the 110th Congress — an average of more than 20 sessions a week. But the agency declined to discuss details of specific briefings, and a spokesman yesterday again dismissed suggestions that the agency gave lawmakers a misleading portrait of the interrogations.

    “The CIA takes seriously its responsibility to provide information to the United States Congress,” said the spokesman, George Little.

    How the briefing was run
    On Sept. 4, 2002 — the House’s first full day back in session after a six-week recess — Pelosi and Goss were summoned to the ultra-secure intelligence committee room on the fourth floor of the Capitol. No electronic devices are allowed to be taken into the room, which is so small some lawmakers have dubbed it “the padded cell.” Only lawmakers and staff with high-level clearances are allowed past a Capitol Police officer who stands guard.

    CIA records show the session was led by officials from its counterterrorism center, which at the time was run by Jose A. Rodriguez Jr., who later left the CIA amid questions about the destruction of videotapes of detainees being waterboarded. Intelligence officials did not consider the briefing “time sensitive” but simply an effort to bring the lawmakers up to speed on what was labeled a “highly sensitive collection activity,” according to former intelligence officials. Shelby and Graham would not be briefed for another 23 days.

    Two officials present during the briefings in 2002 said the talks were overshadowed by fears of more terrorist attacks. “It was wartime crisis mode, and all the chatter at the time was about a ‘second wave,’ ” said one congressional official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the briefings were classified. “The next attack was supposed to be even bigger, and everyone was taking it very seriously.”

    Against that backdrop, lawmakers from both parties pressed the CIA for details about what it was learning from a high-value captive: Abu Zubaida, whose real name is Zayn al-Abidin Muhammed Hussein. There was little, if any, questioning about how the information was obtained, according to the two participants.

    “No one in either party was questioning interrogation tactics,” said the congressional official. “People from [both] parties were saying, ‘Do what it takes.’ Their questions were, ‘Do you have the authorities you need?’ and ‘Are you doing enough?’ ”

    Cat-and-mouse game
    Members of the intelligence committees in both parties say briefings can be a congressional version of a cat-and-mouse game. “If you don’t ask the right question, you won’t get the answer,” said Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.). Newcomers to the panels often fail to “do their homework enough to ask the right question,” noted Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), a former chairman.

    The House committee recently moved into more spacious, technologically advanced quarters in the Capitol Visitor Center. Each lawmaker’s space has an individual monitor, and an internal instant messaging system allows committee staffers to alert lawmakers to messages from outside the secure room.

    Some lawmakers, particularly those not on the intelligence committees, can become annoyed at the restrictions placed on them if they seek classified information, such as a bar on discussing the findings with their own staff members or with lawmakers who have not received the briefings.

    For example, Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the Financial Services Committee, said Treasury Department officials called him in June 2006 about an anti-terrorism issue relating to his panel’s jurisdiction that was about to break in the news. Told he would be forbidden from criticizing the administration’s actions after receiving a briefing, Frank recalled in a recent interview, “I said goodbye.”

    However, because he was told about the basic subject matter, Frank said he is barred from even confirming what the issue was.

    • TeakwoodKite

      Two officials present during the briefings in 2002 said

      “No one in either party was questioning interrogation tactics,” said the congressional official.

      Pelosi and three other congressional leaders

      I am so tired of people who write articles without direct attribution. What BS.

      What “two officials”, which Congressional official, who are the “congressional leaders”, who are such chicken shits they won’t put their name on it?

  • viking

    “For example, Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), chairman of the Financial Services Committee, said Treasury Department officials called him in June 2006 about an anti-terrorism issue relating to his panel’s jurisdiction that was about to break in the news. Told he would be forbidden from criticizing the administration’s actions after receiving a briefing, Frank recalled in a recent interview, “I said goodbye.”

    However, because he was told about the basic subject matter, Frank said he is barred from even confirming what the issue was.”

    I wonder if the issue has any connection to the $550 billion money market withdrawal last Sept. that ‘broke the buck’ and started the financial crises (aka CDS bets). $550 billion was more than most sovereign wealth funds held and Rep. Kanjorski(sp?) said that Paulson and Bernanke told him the withdrawal occurred within a two hour time window. Its remains a mystery and its what started our march towards gov’t. control over the private sector.

  • Seattle Moss

    My oracle tells me that the next four years will be about
    Thanking all those that have kept us safe.

    You revisionists sure miscalculated.

    • TeakwoodKite

      Mine says;
      ___ ___
      ___ ___
      ___ ___
      _______
      ___ ___
      _______

      • Seattle Moss

        Now you got me interested

        I’ll give you a buck for each line that you tell me

        • TeakwoodKite

          Time cycles and the I Ching

          Ming I;The Lines

          Forgive me for the lateral drift, Seattle but you brought up the Oracle.

          Our current modes of rationality are not moving society forward into a better world. They are taking it further and further from that better world. Since the renaissance these modes have worked. As long as the need for food, clothing, and shelter is dominant they will continue to work. But now that for huge masses of people these needs no longer overwhelm everything else, the whole structure of reason, handed down to us from ancient times, is no longer adequate. It begins to be seen for what it really is – emotionally hollow, esthetically meaningless and spiritually empty. 117

          To all appearances he was just drifting. In actuality he was just drifting. Drifting is what one does when looking at lateral truth. He couldn’t follow any known method of procedure to uncover its cause because it was these methods and procedures that were all screwed up in the first place. So he drifted, that was all he could do. 122

          • Seattle Moss

            I thought I recognized those lines..

            Thanks for the reminder.

            • TeakwoodKite

              Where is my six bucks? LOL :)

              • Seattle Moss

                I’ll put it towards your first pitchfork
                OK

                • TeakwoodKite

                  Hell of deal!!! I have wanted one of those for two moons now.

                  Kool.

      • Katmoon

        I posted at the wrong spot below Teak, Ming I?

      • viking

        Are we i chinging?

  • Katmoon

    Yep it sure is the Mean Season.

  • ConfusedAmerican

    I think we need to leave this mess in the past and go on…Otherwise we will have a bigger mess than we ever anticipated…

    This is one tin can that Obama should have left closed.
    I trully feel that there were just as many Dems involved in the knowledge of this as there were Reps….
    Are we to tear the whole country apart and leave ourselves open for who knows what??? Or are we to go on and create a better America!

    Obama needs to start thinking about the welfare of America, instead of picking apart previous events and being a world idol.

  • Katmoon

    I can’t leave this mess, because there is family involvement, to the tune of four immediate family members, who just came back from their second tours in Iraq. It is different for those of us who have the war in our faces, and standing on our chests each and everyday. My perspectives come from this relationship. I have not had a moments peace, personally since this war began, for many reasons, the least of which has been worrying over my only child’s life, the possible end of that life, and what type of ending that would be if it happened. It made me ugly and mean the first two years; since that time I have had to take it moment to moment and try to find a way I can maintain my support of the soldiers, my country and my constitution. For me, what led up to the war, the call to war, the torture, and now both sides snapping and biting, only give me clarity of who has a grasp on what is right and true, and who will work to support our soldiers, our country and our constitution. Only then can we have a better America.

    • TeakwoodKite

      I thank for them for their service and wish them well.

      • Katmoon

        Thank you Teak. I am just weary, of all the fighting.

        • Katmoon

          Both at home and abroad. I find myself going back to quieter moments and occupations, for some peace of mind.

        • ConfusedAmerican

          Kat I thank your family for the sacrifices they have made for our country.
          I too am weary of the war and wish it would end.
          However what Obama is doing is dividing the country. Obama is also putting our wartime information out in the public where all our enemies can see them. I have a feeling that no other country would do this during a war.

          Remember we are still at war, the same war that these memos are all about. We still have many service men fighting for us who could be made very vulnerable with all that is being revealed and being asked to be revealed.

  • Katmoon

    Ming I? Darkening of the Light.

    • TeakwoodKite

      Yup….

      “Here a man of dark nature is in a position of authority and brings harm to the wise and able man”

  • Katmoon

    then rest it is. :)

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