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	<title>Comments on: Pointers and Setters</title>
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		<title>By: NomNomNom</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1213206</link>
		<dc:creator>NomNomNom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1213206</guid>
		<description>wow, I wish I had seen your post earlier, gorgonica: you make a lot of excellent points.
it&#039;s also nice to see another McKinney voter!  plz keep posting at nq  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, I wish I had seen your post earlier, gorgonica: you make a lot of excellent points.<br />
it&#8217;s also nice to see another McKinney voter!  plz keep posting at nq  <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: gorgonica</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212139</link>
		<dc:creator>gorgonica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212139</guid>
		<description>Hi just a short background to begin.  I was and still am an ardent Hillary supporter. I voted for Cynthia McKinney when the time came to make a choice. I could never vote for anyone man or woman who held a position that restricted a woman&#039;s right to make choices about her body or anyone&#039;s right to love and be with the adult partner of their choice. While I admired and respected John McCain&#039;s sacrifice for his country and Sarah Palin&#039;s gritty rise in politics, I couldn&#039;t vote for their policies.

Regarding the post, I have a few questions:

1) Affirmative action benefited women as well as people of color.  Would the tenor of comments change in that regard if we found that Hillary had been given benefit in that way? Did her entry in college bypass some more qualified man?  Would that change the conversation in that area? Certainly at the time a large part of the male population considered letting women into university a type of affirmative action. They considered women unqualified.  Imagine the women of Afghanistan living under the Taliban.  They couldn&#039;t say &quot;When a person steps over the line let them know it is not acceptable.&quot; they would be killed. Nor do they have the same training, education, or experience as their male counterparts. When the Taliban is ousted, should the men tell them that they shouldn&#039;t be members of the government because they aren&#039;t qualified, don&#039;t have the experience, and so forth? Although there is a striking degree of difference now, in the recent past, the too recent past and all too often in the present, women are held back by the palpable threat of violence. This is all too evident by the comments made in threat against Hillary and Sarah and even Nancy Pelosi. No mainstream newscaster has ever said I want to take George Bush in the back and only one of us comes out. Amazing that given his abuse of power.

2) While I sympathize with the poster, I would believe him more if he modeled what he said. Based on his rhetorical stance, its as if he walked up to me slapped me and belittled my sex and then said you should stopped being so harsh on men. He chastises women by criticizing them and then attempts to dominate their behavior by telling them how they should act.  He criticizes their entry in a male-dominated workplace, he criticizes their behavior to other women.  He expects better behavior from women than from men.  He expects them to take power more quickly - the laggards.  Think about how long it took from the Magna Carta to the Declaration of Independence with many a misstep along the way. By that scale women are moving quite fast in taking their reins of power. The critique does not really survey the context of taking political power. I see it as reinforcing the stereotypes of women. It rather reminds of the irony of My Fair lady - &quot;If only a woman were more like a man.&quot; Male politicians are constantly trashing each other why not condemn them as their own worst enemies?  In this case, the writer holds women to a different standard than men. In this blog, though written from a kind attitude, it actually resurrects all the traditional tropes about women: women backstab other women, women just don&#039;t step up to the plate, women change the nature of the workplace (That&#039;s what the men of the Supreme Court judges said about Sandra Day O&#039;Conner) and the writer states the same thing! Though intended kindly a gilded cage of kindness is still a cage.  Women are not better than men nor are they less then men. They are actually humanly roughly the same in the two areas that really count: courage and compassion. And of course the flip side. 

Here is a way of making the same request that I would have responded more positively to had the poster blogged the following:

Hi all,

I have been really hurt by the negative blogging about men as a gender and as reduced to mere male anatomy. I would like to be embraced as a male feminist and recognized for my support of women - the strong and the weak. I believe that we can curb male misogyny without resorting to negative male stereotypes, as tempting as that may be when we are hurt by men both personally and in institutional oppression.

I fight hard for women&#039;s equality. Help me keep the faith by seeing each male as an individual and slam the men who are sexist as individuals lacking in character not as an entire faceless gender reduced to negative anecdotes and punch lines. I know women experience this all the time and I don&#039;t want to hold them to a higher standard than men. However, I&#039;d like for you to not focus on saying men think with their genitalia say Obama&#039;s sexism is a failure of his courage, his character, and his upbringing and not entirely because he enjoys the privileges of being a male in a male-dominant society. I know it&#039;s hard to acknowledge my request and need especially because I too enjoy the benefit of being a man in a society that rewards me more for being so. However, I sometimes get discouraged and I don&#039;t want to. I want to fight for woman&#039;s equality. They deserve the same right to make the wise choices and mistakes as men. I will do my utmost to do the same in regard to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi just a short background to begin.  I was and still am an ardent Hillary supporter. I voted for Cynthia McKinney when the time came to make a choice. I could never vote for anyone man or woman who held a position that restricted a woman&#8217;s right to make choices about her body or anyone&#8217;s right to love and be with the adult partner of their choice. While I admired and respected John McCain&#8217;s sacrifice for his country and Sarah Palin&#8217;s gritty rise in politics, I couldn&#8217;t vote for their policies.</p>
<p>Regarding the post, I have a few questions:</p>
<p>1) Affirmative action benefited women as well as people of color.  Would the tenor of comments change in that regard if we found that Hillary had been given benefit in that way? Did her entry in college bypass some more qualified man?  Would that change the conversation in that area? Certainly at the time a large part of the male population considered letting women into university a type of affirmative action. They considered women unqualified.  Imagine the women of Afghanistan living under the Taliban.  They couldn&#8217;t say &#8220;When a person steps over the line let them know it is not acceptable.&#8221; they would be killed. Nor do they have the same training, education, or experience as their male counterparts. When the Taliban is ousted, should the men tell them that they shouldn&#8217;t be members of the government because they aren&#8217;t qualified, don&#8217;t have the experience, and so forth? Although there is a striking degree of difference now, in the recent past, the too recent past and all too often in the present, women are held back by the palpable threat of violence. This is all too evident by the comments made in threat against Hillary and Sarah and even Nancy Pelosi. No mainstream newscaster has ever said I want to take George Bush in the back and only one of us comes out. Amazing that given his abuse of power.</p>
<p>2) While I sympathize with the poster, I would believe him more if he modeled what he said. Based on his rhetorical stance, its as if he walked up to me slapped me and belittled my sex and then said you should stopped being so harsh on men. He chastises women by criticizing them and then attempts to dominate their behavior by telling them how they should act.  He criticizes their entry in a male-dominated workplace, he criticizes their behavior to other women.  He expects better behavior from women than from men.  He expects them to take power more quickly &#8211; the laggards.  Think about how long it took from the Magna Carta to the Declaration of Independence with many a misstep along the way. By that scale women are moving quite fast in taking their reins of power. The critique does not really survey the context of taking political power. I see it as reinforcing the stereotypes of women. It rather reminds of the irony of My Fair lady &#8211; &#8220;If only a woman were more like a man.&#8221; Male politicians are constantly trashing each other why not condemn them as their own worst enemies?  In this case, the writer holds women to a different standard than men. In this blog, though written from a kind attitude, it actually resurrects all the traditional tropes about women: women backstab other women, women just don&#8217;t step up to the plate, women change the nature of the workplace (That&#8217;s what the men of the Supreme Court judges said about Sandra Day O&#8217;Conner) and the writer states the same thing! Though intended kindly a gilded cage of kindness is still a cage.  Women are not better than men nor are they less then men. They are actually humanly roughly the same in the two areas that really count: courage and compassion. And of course the flip side. </p>
<p>Here is a way of making the same request that I would have responded more positively to had the poster blogged the following:</p>
<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>I have been really hurt by the negative blogging about men as a gender and as reduced to mere male anatomy. I would like to be embraced as a male feminist and recognized for my support of women &#8211; the strong and the weak. I believe that we can curb male misogyny without resorting to negative male stereotypes, as tempting as that may be when we are hurt by men both personally and in institutional oppression.</p>
<p>I fight hard for women&#8217;s equality. Help me keep the faith by seeing each male as an individual and slam the men who are sexist as individuals lacking in character not as an entire faceless gender reduced to negative anecdotes and punch lines. I know women experience this all the time and I don&#8217;t want to hold them to a higher standard than men. However, I&#8217;d like for you to not focus on saying men think with their genitalia say Obama&#8217;s sexism is a failure of his courage, his character, and his upbringing and not entirely because he enjoys the privileges of being a male in a male-dominant society. I know it&#8217;s hard to acknowledge my request and need especially because I too enjoy the benefit of being a man in a society that rewards me more for being so. However, I sometimes get discouraged and I don&#8217;t want to. I want to fight for woman&#8217;s equality. They deserve the same right to make the wise choices and mistakes as men. I will do my utmost to do the same in regard to women.</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212133</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 08:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212133</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t sound like you hate men, Elise.  There are people who set up straw men, insisting that feminists hate men, that feminists think that all women are perfect and that men are evil.  Maybe a handful of women in Berkeley in the 60s, and maybe some men are total misogynists, but generally, most people don&#039;t have such a black/white view of the world.  But some like to set up the straw man, to have a target for their misplaced anger.  Your narratives are very good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t sound like you hate men, Elise.  There are people who set up straw men, insisting that feminists hate men, that feminists think that all women are perfect and that men are evil.  Maybe a handful of women in Berkeley in the 60s, and maybe some men are total misogynists, but generally, most people don&#8217;t have such a black/white view of the world.  But some like to set up the straw man, to have a target for their misplaced anger.  Your narratives are very good.</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212131</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212131</guid>
		<description>Given that everyone who voted for Obama (except perhaps the corporate world) voted against their own best interests, I don&#039;t imagine we really need to single out one group of voters to call stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that everyone who voted for Obama (except perhaps the corporate world) voted against their own best interests, I don&#8217;t imagine we really need to single out one group of voters to call stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: elise</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212026</link>
		<dc:creator>elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212026</guid>
		<description>Correction should have been, &quot;They were afraid of &lt;b&gt; racist&lt;/b&gt; allegations&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction should have been, &#8220;They were afraid of <b> racist</b> allegations&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: elise</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212010</link>
		<dc:creator>elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212010</guid>
		<description>arran, I have some strong opinions about raising children, which probably comes as no surprise. I didn&#039;t want to put them in daycare and I was fortunate to have a choice. But I&#039;m not going to judge other women for the choices they make and recognizing some have no choice.

Most women who have planned their children have thought about their approach to budgeting time (uninterrupted) to devote to their children. Too many children come into the world by accident and the sacrifices necessary are resented. I know this statement may cause some disagreement, but when the birth control pill became available, most of us saw it as a way to take responsibility for family planning. Very few viewed it as a way to be promiscuous without having to pay a price. 

I made a decision to postpone everything else until my children were both in school, others decided to postpone families. An increasing number of young women are not making a choice at all unless you call inaction action. This new trend should disturb everyone since not only has it increased the burden on society to take care of it&#039;s citizens, but IMO, it illustrates a lack of awareness, self respect and the old curse of women thinking their only function in life is having a boyfriend/husband and babies only later to realize they have narrowed their options. The decision to have children brings with it a lifelong commitment and it is irreversible. IMO this is a direct function of sexism and the road back to the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>arran, I have some strong opinions about raising children, which probably comes as no surprise. I didn&#8217;t want to put them in daycare and I was fortunate to have a choice. But I&#8217;m not going to judge other women for the choices they make and recognizing some have no choice.</p>
<p>Most women who have planned their children have thought about their approach to budgeting time (uninterrupted) to devote to their children. Too many children come into the world by accident and the sacrifices necessary are resented. I know this statement may cause some disagreement, but when the birth control pill became available, most of us saw it as a way to take responsibility for family planning. Very few viewed it as a way to be promiscuous without having to pay a price. </p>
<p>I made a decision to postpone everything else until my children were both in school, others decided to postpone families. An increasing number of young women are not making a choice at all unless you call inaction action. This new trend should disturb everyone since not only has it increased the burden on society to take care of it&#8217;s citizens, but IMO, it illustrates a lack of awareness, self respect and the old curse of women thinking their only function in life is having a boyfriend/husband and babies only later to realize they have narrowed their options. The decision to have children brings with it a lifelong commitment and it is irreversible. IMO this is a direct function of sexism and the road back to the past.</p>
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		<title>By: NomNomNom</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1212003</link>
		<dc:creator>NomNomNom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1212003</guid>
		<description>I am not a member of any of these organizations, nor do I support their decision to endorse BHO, ever.  I was only disagreeing about the timeline of their endorsements.  I recollect Pappas of NY&#039;s NOW chapter dissenting re- the Ted Kennedy gang rape comments, lol, and not much else.  I agree with your statements regarding their cowardice entirely.  I remain disgusted by them.
It&#039;s my opinion that they should have endorsed Cynthia McKinney, who has been a consistent voter of their platforms and who was on the ballot in all 50 states and who was no disenfranchiser of voting.  Indeed she was the principal representative speaking against vote theft and against electronic balloting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a member of any of these organizations, nor do I support their decision to endorse BHO, ever.  I was only disagreeing about the timeline of their endorsements.  I recollect Pappas of NY&#8217;s NOW chapter dissenting re- the Ted Kennedy gang rape comments, lol, and not much else.  I agree with your statements regarding their cowardice entirely.  I remain disgusted by them.<br />
It&#8217;s my opinion that they should have endorsed Cynthia McKinney, who has been a consistent voter of their platforms and who was on the ballot in all 50 states and who was no disenfranchiser of voting.  Indeed she was the principal representative speaking against vote theft and against electronic balloting.</p>
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		<title>By: elise</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211990</link>
		<dc:creator>elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 23:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211990</guid>
		<description>Steve, the fact is I&#039;ve been sitting here wondering how I can answer your reply and some of the reasoning with which I disagree without insulting a group of people, like you, well meaning and sincere supporters of women who, though sympathize, don&#039;t fully understand my life as a woman. I put everything on the line. My dreams as a fellow human being absent the strictures of my gender, my hopes for the future where my granddaughter will not only find open doors, but will not have to question if she will be judged on her abilities instead of her sex. 

She is so stunning, people look when she walks into a room. It has been this way since she was twelve years old when I threatened to put a sign around her neck with her age. This is not an empty brag by a grandmother and I can already see
how it effects the way she views herself. She is so much like my younger sister who was blessed/cursed with a genetic jackpot. My sister believed it was all she had to offer so she tried to improve perfection with diets and purges. She died four years ago this month from the ravages of anorexia.

I was a 1970s feminist and I joined with others in a joyful, exciting campaign to improve our lives. Like many others, I stopped fighting so hard for different reasons. For some reason I believed everyone had seen the problem and younger women would continue the fight. I also was convinced the Democratic Party would not let me down. I always believed the next election would see a reintroduction of the ERA and this time it would pass. When the next election came around, I always believed it will happen this time because it&#039;s really so small a request and why is it that we even have to ask?

I always believed the Democratic Party was the only thing standing between me and spending the rest of my life on the sidelines. I know now how foolish it was to believe in exchange for my support, the party would have my back. I don&#039;t have a party anymore. I can&#039;t support either party. I have been politically active for so long, I&#039;m lost now and part of my heart is lost too. 

If I&#039;ve given you the impression I don&#039;t like men, I can tell you that is absolutely not true. One of my favorite activities at this stage of my life is sitting with my husband talking about philosophy, politics, math and physics. He is the most intelligent man I&#039;ve ever known and his opinions matter to me because they come from a different perspective. It would seem taking on someone with so much brain power would be like walking through a minefield, but when he is right, I concede. When I am right, it&#039;s difficult to get him to admit it. Whether that comes from the legendary male ego or too much confidence, I still don&#039;t know after all this time. 

When I refer to men in a generic sense, I don&#039;t say, except for Steve, my husband and list the other men I know fighting beside me. I am referring to the history of men who never wanted a change since they had created a world in which they were superior, made the laws. enforced the laws/rules and have demeaned efforts by women for equality and recognition. I don&#039;t see men as my enemy, what I see instead comes from a quote by Confucius: He who knows not and knows he knows not, He is a child. Teach him. I want men (and women)to understand what they don&#039;t know about the experience of women everywhere and throughout history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, the fact is I&#8217;ve been sitting here wondering how I can answer your reply and some of the reasoning with which I disagree without insulting a group of people, like you, well meaning and sincere supporters of women who, though sympathize, don&#8217;t fully understand my life as a woman. I put everything on the line. My dreams as a fellow human being absent the strictures of my gender, my hopes for the future where my granddaughter will not only find open doors, but will not have to question if she will be judged on her abilities instead of her sex. </p>
<p>She is so stunning, people look when she walks into a room. It has been this way since she was twelve years old when I threatened to put a sign around her neck with her age. This is not an empty brag by a grandmother and I can already see<br />
how it effects the way she views herself. She is so much like my younger sister who was blessed/cursed with a genetic jackpot. My sister believed it was all she had to offer so she tried to improve perfection with diets and purges. She died four years ago this month from the ravages of anorexia.</p>
<p>I was a 1970s feminist and I joined with others in a joyful, exciting campaign to improve our lives. Like many others, I stopped fighting so hard for different reasons. For some reason I believed everyone had seen the problem and younger women would continue the fight. I also was convinced the Democratic Party would not let me down. I always believed the next election would see a reintroduction of the ERA and this time it would pass. When the next election came around, I always believed it will happen this time because it&#8217;s really so small a request and why is it that we even have to ask?</p>
<p>I always believed the Democratic Party was the only thing standing between me and spending the rest of my life on the sidelines. I know now how foolish it was to believe in exchange for my support, the party would have my back. I don&#8217;t have a party anymore. I can&#8217;t support either party. I have been politically active for so long, I&#8217;m lost now and part of my heart is lost too. </p>
<p>If I&#8217;ve given you the impression I don&#8217;t like men, I can tell you that is absolutely not true. One of my favorite activities at this stage of my life is sitting with my husband talking about philosophy, politics, math and physics. He is the most intelligent man I&#8217;ve ever known and his opinions matter to me because they come from a different perspective. It would seem taking on someone with so much brain power would be like walking through a minefield, but when he is right, I concede. When I am right, it&#8217;s difficult to get him to admit it. Whether that comes from the legendary male ego or too much confidence, I still don&#8217;t know after all this time. </p>
<p>When I refer to men in a generic sense, I don&#8217;t say, except for Steve, my husband and list the other men I know fighting beside me. I am referring to the history of men who never wanted a change since they had created a world in which they were superior, made the laws. enforced the laws/rules and have demeaned efforts by women for equality and recognition. I don&#8217;t see men as my enemy, what I see instead comes from a quote by Confucius: He who knows not and knows he knows not, He is a child. Teach him. I want men (and women)to understand what they don&#8217;t know about the experience of women everywhere and throughout history.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve_in_KC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211973</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve_in_KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 23:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211973</guid>
		<description>Well, where&#039;s the fun in that??  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, where&#8217;s the fun in that??  <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: elise</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211959</link>
		<dc:creator>elise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 22:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211959</guid>
		<description>Nom, where was the fight against the media when the awful sexist remarks began or the DNC which allowed the attacks to go unanswered. 

I had a running email dialogue with all three of these organizations for months and I got excuses. The straight fact is they were afraid of sexist accusations. Unlike the NAACP and civil rights activists among the AA community speaking out on a daily basis making unfounded accusations against the Clintons, women&#039;s organizations made half hearted protests, didn&#039;t call press conferences or organize in an effective way to fight for women&#039;s rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nom, where was the fight against the media when the awful sexist remarks began or the DNC which allowed the attacks to go unanswered. </p>
<p>I had a running email dialogue with all three of these organizations for months and I got excuses. The straight fact is they were afraid of sexist accusations. Unlike the NAACP and civil rights activists among the AA community speaking out on a daily basis making unfounded accusations against the Clintons, women&#8217;s organizations made half hearted protests, didn&#8217;t call press conferences or organize in an effective way to fight for women&#8217;s rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferd Berfle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211955</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferd Berfle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 22:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211955</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Frankly, I’ve witnessed first-hand that many so-called professional women also curse, tell off-color jokes, check out men’s bodies, and discuss their sex lives.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So have I. But that&#039;s OK by me as I&#039;ve been known to tell a few off-color jokes and to curse like a sailor when the occasion warranted it.  The people I work with have been together for years and know what to expect. We get our work done ahead of schedule and under budget, so complaints are rare. Really, I wouldn&#039;t call it low-brow so much as being at ease with one&#039;s colleagues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Frankly, I’ve witnessed first-hand that many so-called professional women also curse, tell off-color jokes, check out men’s bodies, and discuss their sex lives.</p></blockquote>
<p>So have I. But that&#8217;s OK by me as I&#8217;ve been known to tell a few off-color jokes and to curse like a sailor when the occasion warranted it.  The people I work with have been together for years and know what to expect. We get our work done ahead of schedule and under budget, so complaints are rare. Really, I wouldn&#8217;t call it low-brow so much as being at ease with one&#8217;s colleagues.</p>
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		<title>By: foxyladi14</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211954</link>
		<dc:creator>foxyladi14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 22:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211954</guid>
		<description>Steve said it was like mom moved in.great..
make them act like adults and not kids..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve said it was like mom moved in.great..<br />
make them act like adults and not kids..</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy Buzz Ross Latte</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211953</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy Buzz Ross Latte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 22:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211953</guid>
		<description>Mountainaires presents the best case scenario.  EARNING RESPECT.

Her story is a blaring example of success through earning it - self actualization, if you will.

Others still need to cling to the &quot;He, (the situation or life) done me wrong!&quot; meme.

That&#039;s counterproductive and self defeating.

That&#039;s why I&#039;ll take my lead from Hillary Clinton.  She doesn&#039;t ever present herself as a victim.  Hillary has earned respect from many.  Just look at the situation with Germany and GM.  They didn&#039;t call Nancy Pelosi or some women&#039;s group.  They called the person who could make a difference.  Why?  Respect!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mountainaires presents the best case scenario.  EARNING RESPECT.</p>
<p>Her story is a blaring example of success through earning it &#8211; self actualization, if you will.</p>
<p>Others still need to cling to the &#8220;He, (the situation or life) done me wrong!&#8221; meme.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s counterproductive and self defeating.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;ll take my lead from Hillary Clinton.  She doesn&#8217;t ever present herself as a victim.  Hillary has earned respect from many.  Just look at the situation with Germany and GM.  They didn&#8217;t call Nancy Pelosi or some women&#8217;s group.  They called the person who could make a difference.  Why?  Respect!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve_in_KC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211947</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve_in_KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 21:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211947</guid>
		<description>Thank you, mountainaires, for your comments and your inspiring story!

I agree 100% on the respect issue.  You have to earn it to get it, and to keep it.

My best wishes go to your daughter, and it would seem she has an outstanding chance of success, judging from the character that you and your husband have apparently instilled in her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, mountainaires, for your comments and your inspiring story!</p>
<p>I agree 100% on the respect issue.  You have to earn it to get it, and to keep it.</p>
<p>My best wishes go to your daughter, and it would seem she has an outstanding chance of success, judging from the character that you and your husband have apparently instilled in her.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve_in_KC</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/25279/pointers-and-setters/#comment-1211941</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve_in_KC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 21:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=25279#comment-1211941</guid>
		<description>kat, thanks for your comments!

What I said is true.  However, the context was humorous observation.  

I said that offices that are 99% female (and I&#039;ve seen plenty of them) don&#039;t want a regular guy in their midst because it inhibits the free flow of female communication.  Women have told me this straight out, no doubt about it, no embarrassment.  

And I said the same phenomenon occurs in male-only workplaces.  Do you really think that &quot;professional&quot; men never curse, ogle women, or fart?  Frankly, I&#039;ve witnessed first-hand that many so-called professional women also curse, tell off-color jokes, check out men&#039;s bodies, and discuss their sex lives.  My wife is always forwarding &quot;dirty joke&quot; emails to me that she received from other women.

I guess it&#039;s just a low-brow world. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kat, thanks for your comments!</p>
<p>What I said is true.  However, the context was humorous observation.  </p>
<p>I said that offices that are 99% female (and I&#8217;ve seen plenty of them) don&#8217;t want a regular guy in their midst because it inhibits the free flow of female communication.  Women have told me this straight out, no doubt about it, no embarrassment.  </p>
<p>And I said the same phenomenon occurs in male-only workplaces.  Do you really think that &#8220;professional&#8221; men never curse, ogle women, or fart?  Frankly, I&#8217;ve witnessed first-hand that many so-called professional women also curse, tell off-color jokes, check out men&#8217;s bodies, and discuss their sex lives.  My wife is always forwarding &#8220;dirty joke&#8221; emails to me that she received from other women.</p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s just a low-brow world. <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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