RSS Feed for This PostCurrent Article

To All Those Who Jumped on Janet Napolitano’s Statement…

By dcmediagirl on June 1, 2009 at 1:20 PM in Current Affairs

(Bumped up from early morning.)

…about right-wing extremists posing a national security threat, how’s this working for you? Oh, and remember him?

And to all the Bill O’Reilly apologists, how do you defend this?

The point is not singling out one particular group. It’s being aware that threats could come from any and all ethnic groups and political affiliations.

  • listing starboard

    Radical extremists of any sort are a threat to us all, regardless of party affiliation. Endless finger pointing at each other serves no purpose. I read somewhere that of all of the domestic terrorist/political assasins only Timothy Mcveigh was considered far right. We must unite to save our country.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      You’re 100% wrong about McVeigh. I put up the Eric Rudolph bio for a reason. You’re also conveniently forgetting the other radical anti-abortion, so-called “pro-life” fanatics who have killed abortion providers as right-wing.

      The point is that Napolitano was intimating that we shouldn’t get fixated on the idea that terrorists and those who threaten our national security are all Muslims, to put it bluntly.

      It’s interesting that when you point this out to right-wingers they come out with the “finger-pointing” accusation. Either you care about safety or not. If you do then you have to assess threats from ALL quarters.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Either you care about safety or not. If you do then you have to assess threats from ALL quarters.

        I would concur with your statement except I do not wish to have my safety placed in a position superior to my rights as a U.S. citizen. The previous administration was wrong on this issue and so is this one. The mantra of safety is no less hollow than that of “hope and change”. It is merely a slogan or sound-bite designed to divert attention away from the skulduggery being perpetrated by both parties on the American public at large. The politicians, many bureaucrats, and just about all commentators who are selling us this hogwash are no better than the hucksters trying to sell us Chinese-made crap that breaks upon first use. But wait, there’s even less.

        Real safety begins with something neither side wants to even discuss–sealing the borders, at least for a time. 9/11 did not happen merely because some Moslem was offended that we were in the ME. Our porous borders were also to blame (and I don’t mean just the land borders). Yet they are still porous. That I take my shoes off at an airport checkpoint to make the other passengers safe is beyond ludicrous and is frankly, insane because it is only a dog-and-pony show meant to demonstrate the government’s “determination” to do something about safety.

        Face it, we’re not getting much of anything from our government except marginal competence and an enormous bill.

        • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

          Ferd: I must have missed the part about the shooter having come across the border. Do you know something I don’t?

          • Ferd Berfle

            When you mentioned ALL quarters, I decided to respond because the entire issue of safety is an issue that I find somewhat irritating. All quarters was a rather general statement. I meant no offense to you personally. I suppose I did not make myself entirely clear, which is my mistake. Mea culpa.

      • listing starboard

        First of all I am not a right winger , was a registered Democrat for 20 years prior to Hillary being illegaly denied her proper win, then changed to Independent. My point was that ALL EXTREMIST BEHAVIOUR is malignant–and is killing MY country.

        • Ferd Berfle

          My point was that ALL EXTREMIST BEHAVIOUR is malignant–and is killing MY country.

          I agree with you, listing. That is my fear as well. The extremists truly must be neutralized before they make our precarious position even more so.

      • mountainaires

        “Either you care about safety or you do not.”

        Hmm…I don’t care to have my Constitutional rights abrogated because of a particular political belief. I’m safer when I’m protected by the Constitution, than I am when the Constitution is twisted for political agendas.

        That’s why Napolitano’s statement was so offensive, as was the report she was basing her comments on–and that report has since been rescinded.

        When police are trained to consider people who support Ron Paul as “extremists,” we’ve got a big problem. I wasn’t a Ron Paul voter, but there’s not one thing extremist about Ron Paul, I assure you. And, since many of his supporters were also 2nd amendment supporters–as am I–and people just like me–law abiding citizens–were named in the report on which Napolitano based her statements as “extremists,” I wonder what sort of safety you have in mind here?

        Safety ONLY comes with Constitutional protections. Because the real danger to any country isn’t anti-abortionists: It’s authoritarian governments.

        Someone asked below to name a “leftist” whose committed any of these violent actions. Here’s one, but there are others:

        Animal Rights Activist Daniel Andreas San Diego is Accused of Bombing 2 Corporate Office Buildings
        Animal rights activist Daniel Andreas San Diego has been added to the FBI’s most wanted terrorist list. Daniel Andreas San Diego is the the first person on the most wanted list for domestic terrorism. In 2003 and 2004, San Diego allegedly bombed two buildings owned by the Chiron and the Shaklee Corporation because of his belief that they conduct animal research.

        A reward of $250,000 has been offered to anyone who aids in the capture of Daniel Andreas San Diego. According to the AP, the FBI believes he may be hiding in Costa Rica. You can view Daniel Andreas San Diego’s FBI most wanted poster here. According to the FBI, Daniel Andreas San Diego has a tattoo on his chest that reads, “It only takes a spark.” Mugshots and Pictures of Daniel Andreas San Diego can be found on the FBI website.

        The group called “The Revolutionary Cells-Liberation Brigade” claimed to be responsible for both the Shaklee and Chiron building bombings. The Revolutionary Cells-Liberation Brigade (RCLAB) is also known as the Animal Liberation Brigade. This group advocates for animal rights by all means necessary including violence.

        Wikipedia Revolutionary Cells – Animal Liberation Brigade

        http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1669374/daniel_andreas_san_diego_on_the_fbis.html

        Sources
        AP FBI’s newest ‘Most Wanted’ terrorist is American
        CNN Animal rights activist on FBI’s ‘Most Wanted Terrorists’ list
        http://www.fbi.gov Daniel Andreas San Diego FBI most wanted poster
        http://www.animalliberationpressoffice.org/prisoners.htmNorth American Animal Liberation Brigade press office
        http://www.animalliberationfront.com/index.html Animal Liberation Front website

    • KmX

      We should not assume this mentally Ill murderer was part of the Pro Life movement anymore than Al Gore or the Sierra Club was responsible for the Unibomber horrendous acts. Remember Al Gore book was found in the cabin of this terrorist. Mental Illness is an epidemic in this country. A mentally Ill person with a gun in his hand can do serious damage!!!!!!

      • elise

        KmX Kacznski, the Unibomber, was arrested in 1996. Al Gore was VP at the time and hadn’t yet written his book and the film wasn’t made until 2006.

  • Owllwoman

    OK I guess this statement bothers me enough to post. There are crazy people on both sides. In my opinion you give a one sided picture. Do we really have to list the crazy people on the left? There are plenty. Whatever your opinion of the doctor is, in my book abortion, especially late term, is no different than torture. Does that give another person the right to kill the doctor? No! But why is there praise given to people who speak out and wail against so called torture, while late term abortions are glorified? Taking a life, any life, even the unborn life, is murder in my book. Lets be fair!

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      I’m not talking about “crazy people”. I’m talking about threats to national security. A man who picks up a gun and murders someone in cold blood who provides a legal medical service to women is a threat to national security. Someone who runs around the country bombing abortion clinics, gay bars and the Olympics is a threat to national security.

      • jbjd

        By characterizing that late term abortions are “glorified,” Owlwoman is advertising a lack of critical thinking skills. You are wasting your breath.

        • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

          jbjd: You’re absolutely right. Thanks for being sane.

      • EricS

        Exactly.

        This guy is a terrorist. He’s no different than a Islamic extremist that straps on a bomb.

        I’ve got a bad feeling about the coming years — I see the early 90s all over again.

        I consider myself a moderate – and sure, there are plenty on the far left that I find beyond the pale… but I’ll say this for the loony lefties – all they do is annoy me. The loony righties like this nutjob – they seem to have a tendency to pick up a gun or build a bomb.

        That difference ought to count for something.

        …and for people that ‘defend’ this act of terrorism, even with your mealy-mouthed “Oh what a tragedy but at least he’s not performing this (ed note – LEGAL) service any more” — keep it up.

        You only hurt your cause because you push centrists/moderates like me further left. I don’t want to be anywhere NEAR the side of terrorists.

        Not having a uterus myself, I’ve always considered abortion a personal choice between an individual and her physician.

        But congrats, Owllwoman… you just convinced me to send my first ever donation to Planned Parenthood.

        • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

          When lefties blow stuff up and kill people they become university professors, write pompous books and sit on education foundations.

          • EricS

            I can’t speak well to what lefties did 5 years before I was born, but seems to me that the ‘left’, in broad terms, has learned its lesson — that such acts of terrorism are counterproductive and have long ago been put on the “do not use” shelf.

            When does the right catch up to this learning curve?

            If I was 20 years older, no doubt — I’ve have transposed “lefties” and “righties”… but seeing as I have zero interest in taking sides in some silly culture wars game, I’ll say it again.

            Moderates like myself generally want to stay as far away from the terrorists that blow things up and commit murder.

            40 years ago, I guess I’d have been pushed rightward.

            Today – here and now – the acts of terrorism seem to be coming from the right.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Which only means that they are no better than the right-wing kooks and only demonstrates with a certain clarity that extremism in any form cannot be found to be virtuous. Frankly, I’m tired of the extremes trying to define this country.

          • rw

            maybe it’s all about which economic class a “terrorist” belongs to.

        • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

          EricS: Thanks for being sane.

      • Portia Elizabeth

        So could you explain why William Ayers is not only a free man, but is teaching at a university?

        • Portia Elizabeth

          Oh, and I don’t mean the legal technicalities that allowed it. I mean the logic that says he’s okay even though he said 9/11/01 that he regretted not doing more. Is he even on the no-fly list?

          • Ferd Berfle

            Ayers should be making really tiny rocks out of really big rocks for the rest of his life. Alas, he gets to advise incompetent presidents. It boggles the mind.

            • Portia Elizabeth

              My thoughts exactly!

      • Seattle Moss

        A man who picks up a gun and murders someone in cold blood who provides a legal medical service to women is a threat to national security

        DC..I expect you to write a thread about the Muslim convert who went into an army recruiting station killing two soldiers. Islamic Jihad is THE threat to national security.

        DC..Go ahead and hide behind those that use vice grips to pluck little babies out of the womb.
        You impress me not immoral one…

    • NomNomNom

      There are less than 5,000 3rd trimester abortions per year: less than 1/2 of 1% of abortions per year are 3rd trimester. Many complications in pregnancy do not occur or become known until well into the pregnancy including into the third trimester: these include the baby’s brain is not in its skull, it has advanced hydrocephaly and is for all practical purposes brain-dead, it has other major birth defects that make caring for the baby impossible for those of reduced means and an extremely unlikely candidate for adoption, it has a rare genetic disease with no treatment that will give it a short life of agony, the mother’s blood pressure is so high she’s going to have a stroke or a heart attack, the baby is already dead but it’s too big to be gotten out without surgery that could impact the woman’s ability to have children in future, the woman is in a coma after being shot by her freaking husband and the doctors decide the woman would have a better chance to survive without the baby. These are all documented reasons for 3rd trimester abortions. I think they are all valid.
      I might add that if poor women had better access to birth control and health care, many of these pregnancies would never have occurred, and many more might have been able to be avoided because there are some treatments possible in the case of hydrocephaly, the probable most common cause for 3rd term abortions, if the condition is detected early enough.
      I do agree that if it is possible to anesthetize or give a lethal injection to the baby prior to aborting it that this should be mandated.
      Prior to the murder of Dr. Tiller, who, I might add was a tremendously brave and selfless individual, there were only 3 clinics in teh entire country performing 3rd term abortions. As of the present, there are now 2. I
      n any event, it should be quite clear that to arrange for a 3rd trimester abortion would necessitate a great deal of planning and expense: hardly the go in on a whim and kill your baby arguments advanced by antiabortionists.
      Any apologist, as you seem to be owlwoman, for gunning down a man in a church in front of children, because you think he murders babies is as appalling as it is criminally stupid.

      • jbjd

        I wanted to refute some comments downstairs with this information you provided but, you did not include a cite.

        • NomNomNom

          lunch right now, will post late this evening after work, may take some re-researching; this is modified from an old post of mine

          • NomNomNom

            This may be the site referenced by BABS below
            http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/issues/issues_partial_birth_abortions.html

            …abortions done in the later part of the second trimester… In 1987 a study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute found that 71% of women did not recognize that they were pregnant or had misjudged gestational age. Forty-eight percent had difficulty arranging for an abortion, particularly raising the money for an abortion. Thirty-three percent were afraid to tell their parents or partner, and 24% said they were having great difficulty deciding to have an abortion. These women were also more likely to be having personal health problems, fetal health problems, or to have suffered rape or incest
            …in the third trimester…In January of 2000 the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported the latest statistics gathered on abortions performed in the United States. In 1997, the CDC said that 1,184,758 abortions were performed, the lowest level in two decades. Additionally, approximately 88% were performed during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. In actual numbers that would mean that 1,042,587 were performed in the first 3 months of pregnancy or in the first trimester. That leaves approximately 14,217 that were performed after the first trimester.
            The Alan Guttmacher Institute indicates that only 1% of abortions are performed at 21 weeks plus. In real numbers that is approximately 11,848 abortions. In 1997 the Alan Guttmacher Institute said that approximately four one-hundredths of one percent (.04%) are performed in the third trimester or after viability. In real numbers that would be approximately 474 abortions performed in the third trimester out of over 1 million abortions overall. Depending on the total number of abortions in a given year, where the high has been near 1.6 million, that would mean that anywhere between approximately 400-700 abortions a year out of one million plus, occurs in the 7,8,or 9th month. That hardly sounds like the “killing of healthy fetuses or babies just before birth because a woman doesn’t want to be pregnant anymore.”

            This site also gives 3 accounts from women who had third trimester abortions and that were part of a lawsuit in Nebraska overturning the statue banning third trimester abortions.

            Other links:
            http://www.religioustolerance.org/abortion.htm
            http://community.feministing.com/2009/05/why-i-provide-second-trimester.html
            http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=no_country_for_mothers
            http://www.feministcampus.org/know/AfghanWomensHealthInitiative.pdf

            • NomNomNom

              :roll: “statute”

      • Portia Elizabeth

        Nom — I usually agree with you, but I must add I don’t think Owlwoman is defending the killer. I think she had issue with the whole idea of what constitutes murder on either/both sides.

        I’ve been a pro-choice person ever since there was a choice to be made. In a perfect world there’d be no need for abortions because people would be responsible for their own reproductive systems. Until that happens, I will continue to support a woman’s right to decide.

        • NomNomNom

          The remarks seem to me to exhibit hostility towards those who are against torture but are not anti-abortion. I found the phrase “speak out and wail against so-called torture” to be deliberately insulting. It’s true I am inferring that a desire to insult a group of people implies a level of solidarity with their opposition, but I think the inference is valid.

          “Whatever your opinion of the doctor is, in my book abortion, especially late term, is no different than torture. Does that give another person the right to kill the doctor? No! But why is there praise given to people who speak out and wail against so called torture, while late term abortions are glorified?”

      • Craig

        As for your stats about how few late term abortions there are each year… there were 2 terrorists water-boarded. Just 2, so what was the big deal about that?

        • NomNomNom

          It’s illegal.

          • NomNomNom

            While Cheney may admit to authorizing only 3 water boardings (Abu Zubaydah, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, and al Nashiri) and 33 “enhanced interrogations”, imo anyone believing that is more than a little naive. Nor do I believe that the water boarding was the worst of the acts of torture. Nor do I believe that torture is the worst of the crimes committed of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

            My post about the most recent available statistics on abortion is meant to show that third term abortions are not at all commonplace, that they are not readily available, and women do not choose them on a whim.

            I am a strong believer in the availability of contraception and promotion of women’s wage parity and social equality as part of the solution towards reducing and perhaps ultimately eliminating abortion.
            I was sterilized at age 26 to prevent unwanted pregnancy after an 8 year battle with doctors to obtain a tubal ligation, a procedure legal in all 50 states.

            It is my belief that the argument against abortion is more often an argument against women’s self-determination, as anti abortion groups also attempt to limit information about contraception, access to contraception, access to sterilization, and alteration of the definitions of contraception so that they are redefined as abortions.

      • Owllwoman

        Using your theory, someone with an incurable disease, might also be put down or given an injection, to save money for the State or save the family from monetary loss? The man who killed the Doctor was wrong. But that doesn’t make what the doctor did, abortions, right. At some point we as a Nation have to stand for Life, or demean its value all together!

    • Lily

      Owlwoman, I agree with your statement. I don’t consider it either insane or an apologist defense of Dr Tiller’s murder. I am not sure what this incident has to do with national security and really cannot in my mind connect it to Janet Napolitano, whom I happen to respect, and Homeland Security issues. What really worries me more than anything in that regard are millions of ordinary, law-abiding citizens walking around with assault weapons. Nomnomnom, I know that is an exageration, so if you have the statistics to clear up the picture, please feel free to do so.

      • Portia Elizabeth

        “I am not sure what this incident has to do with national security and really cannot in my mind connect it to Janet Napolitano…”

        I agree. There have been insane attacks like this one for as long as I can remember. These nuts have their own agendas and their own specific targets. They aren’t necessarily out to kill as many as possible.

        And what is the logical progression of the thinking that anybody could be a potential terrorist? Should we extrapolate to the theory that everybody could be a potential terrorist? And from there to preliminary detention to prevent potential terrorism?

        Where does it stop? I’d really like to know.

      • NomNomNom

        lol, I don’t think one can know. Many weapons can be modified readily to fit the definition of an assault weapon.
        If it’s any consolation to you BHO’s webpage used to have a link stating he would return the nationwide ban on assault weapons without a time limit.

        • Portia Elizabeth

          That’s so true. There’ll always be some smart guy who can get around the rules. I guess it makes me somewhat hypocritical, but I hate the govt. making more regulations on firearms than are already in place. (Spoken as someone who’s never personally suffered from the result of gun usage.)

          • NomNomNom

            I view guns as the great equalizer between women and men. I am a big believer in 2nd amendment rights.

  • JRD

    This is a very sad situation. It is also sad that it is politicized. I`m sick of being played by both parties. It`s time for grown ups!

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      JRD: Your comment is nonsensical. What is being “politicized”? Either someone endangers the welfare and safety of others or they don’t.

      • double down

        Seizing on this to attack one’s political opponents of the Left is most certainly “politicizing” this.

        But you knew that.

        • Docelder

          Exactly right. The “article” consists if three anxiously thrown up sentences… with an “in your face” tone to them. It looks and smells a lot like chum. Who is the ideologue here? When I practiced in Dallas, a 14 year old was shot in the head across the street from my clinic for his Cowboys starter jacket. Point being, there is enough evil in the world. We all know that. This story, will be used to further two agendas, the anti religion agenda and the anti gun agenda. In the end nobody will care about the dead doctor.

          • lorac

            I think a lot of people don’t like fundamentalism (why should it be bad in the guise of the Taliban, why not bad in Christianity?), but I don’t think anyone is “out to get” peaceful people who choose to spend their Sunday morning dressed up. I’m not being snarky, I really don’t think there’s some big anti-religion agenda. I’ve been agnostic for over 30 years, and I never got a memo.

            I think the best thing for religious people who think this will be fodder for some anti-religious agenda to do, is to be the loudest voices condemning what this killer has done, and emphasizing that we are a country of laws.

          • ces

            I care.

            I care that someone was shot dead in cold blooded murder.

            In church.

            I care that those who need his specific MEDICAL service might die now.

            And if this killing is used to highlight the ease of access to handgun and the willingness of religious radicals to kill for their beliefs….

            AMEN!

            • double down

              Do yu care about the 40 million abortions in this country.

              I do not think you care at all about Tiller. I think you just use this to wallow in the childish self-righteousness of your false religion of Marxism.

              • Ferd Berfle

                When did you escape the asylum, double dumb? That you apparently applaud, or at least condone, the killing of a human being while sanctimoniously decrying abortion speaks volumes about your rudimentary understanding of consistency and basic morality. But then again, you may just be a silly troll. You decide.

                By the way, ces is no Marxist.

                • TeakWoodKite

                  Sorry Ferd to hear Ces is not a Marxist.

                  Bummer.

                  Ces…will you be ok?

                  • ces

                    Yeah, my gut is still a bit sore from being busted, but I think I’ll make it.

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    Last I checked he wasn’t but then I’ve been wrong before. Perhaps ces should decide.

                    When does open season on trolls begin, btw?

                    • TeakWoodKite

                      Ferd, I thought it all year round…

                      :)

                    • ces

                      Well, I think it just because the application got lost in the mail. ;)

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      LMAO

                      ces, I think you’re great. I know that must come as a complete surprise but you can always say you know nothing of me.

                      Ferd

                    • ces

                      Uh oh. Was that a statement or advice?

                      I have the distinct feeling I’m about to put foot to mouth…but I’m not sure why…

                      And you, Teak, and Mountainaires are the only holey trinity I need!

                      And the only thing I troll is the #$#$%# diaper aisle….sigh. My kingdom for a potty trainer!

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      For God’s sake, ces, I’m backing you up. OK, I’ll bite–Forsooth, let no man utter an encouraging word lest they be counted for a good deed gone unpunished. All deeds in this realm must be for that which is not good otherwise those who come upon such good deeds shall in good measure ensure that deeds that are good shall be counteracted immediately to contradict the former. The former is good but does not exist and the remedy exists neither.

                    • ces

                      Oh gosh, Ferd, I know you were.

                      Vagueness and sarcasm don’t always mix well…my apologies.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      Vagueness and sarcasm don’t always mix well…my apologies.

                      Ces: Sorry but I had to have some fun with Celtic language on this one. You weren’t vague at all. Yours in humor,

                      Ferd

                    • ces

                      May the wit always be dry
                      And the beer nearby.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      May the wit always be dry
                      And the beer nearby.

                      You bet. Think I’ll have one in your honor ces. I really do love this website.

              • ces

                Um, I care that the Catholics and GOP are against birth control and SEX EDUCATION that include talking about condoms—- that ALL would have prevented a hell of a lot of those abortions!!

                Do you care about a fair number of those those abortions that otherwise might be crack babies, results of rape, or just welfair checks?? Or do you care about them when they are born to low-income families in bad neighborhoods where they get mainlined into the juvi/jail system, at our expense?

                It’s people like you who wrap yourself in hypocrisy that drive this topic to extremes: don’t kill the unborn, but damn it if I want my ‘hard-earned’ money to pay for the social costs of those ‘born’ later on. You can’t have it both ways.

                I’d rather subsidize abortions up front for much less total economic and social cost than deal with the “results” later.

                And who the F! are you to assume who I care about or not? You don’t know me.

                • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

                  Maybe if you did a little research you would see that Catholics do care about what happens to the babies after they are born. They have provided alternatives to abortion.

                  Catholic Charities (paid for by Catholics, not the government or the taxpayers) offer adoption services, free medical care during the pregnancies and after, transitional housing for single mothers so they can finish school and get a job to raise the child. They also offer family services, foster care, and Headstart schools and pre-schools…all free of charge to the mother so they don’t need to have an abortion.

                  So, please, before you start blathering about something you know nothing about, check your facts.

                  • ces

                    Yeah, and how much money has the Catholic church spent on condoms? Hm?

                    The subject was birth CONTROL. As in, preventing an unwanted pregnancy from the start.

                    I never implied that the Catholic church itself doesn’t help (in it’s own “oh, look what happened, let’s help after the fact” way).

                    I hold the same criticisms for those governments, like India’s, who promote having more children than the parents (let alone society or the planet) can manage.

                    Educate people (especially women), and we will have to worry less about abortions or unwanted pregnancies from the get go.

                    • cathnealon

                      ces
                      I work in an inner city hospital and see young women(youngest 13 with 2 children)with multiple children by the time they are 19–please be aware that we(our hospital and our county) has multiple birth control free programs in which condoms and pills are available. However,there is a deep psychological basis for these young girls’choices and it has nothing to do with the Catholic Church or the availability of condoms–in some cases it is due to their role models, they come from families where this has happened for more than two generations, in some cases it is sheer lonlieness and meaninglessness in their lives and for others it is having someone to love who might love them. These are complicated issues that are often overlooked but they should not be because condoms and pills are there in our country and every county for the asking. And by the way most of these girls are not Catholic and have no such religious restrictions which would prevent them from seeking birth control. So you’re barking up the wrong tree.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      I am sorry to hear this. I will probably get a lot of grief over this but I think that birth control should be mandatory, irrespective of country of origin, The planet on which we live is finite and an acknowledgement of that simple fact is long overdue. If I have offended you, I am sorry but this is the way I feel.

                    • ces

                      I concur with Ferd, in just about everything said.

                      Education is the key. That’s bottom line.

                      Of course the problem is not that simple. I never said it was. I never said it was the Catholic Church’s problem alone that people don’t have access to condoms. But their influence sure has impact other demographics. the state I live in has serious issues with a population bomb that our resources (of all kinds) can’t handle.

                      You mention role models. I whole heartedly agree!! A great place for the church (of all denominations) to get involved, in my opinion. Or simply let the schools teach birth control early on (or at all). Or maybe not ‘crucify’ those of us who advocate lower birth rates in all demographic groups. (Not saying you are are doing that…)

                      There are different pressures in different groups. I lived in Idaho for awhile. White rural and even urban kids having kids at about 13, some moron, some just bored.

                      Education. Education. Education.

                      And if I’m gonna do anything to a tree, it’s give a big ol’ hug. ;)

                      I appreciate your comments, and your service to those who need help.

                    • ces

                      Damn. Freudian Girdle…

                      Mormon, not moron.

                      [hanging head in shame]

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      LOL! Oh that is so true. Or how about the girls getting their engagement rings at the HS senior proms! Mormons have an even bigger duty to procreate. They need all the kids to help inhabit their very own planet in the afterlife! Aw, come on you Mormons who really know your church litany – you know it’s true! LOL!

                      Although even the Mormons are starting to get the picture that it is expensive to have a zillion kids and then send them on missions and then to one or two years of college (before they get married and start the cycle over again) AND pay 10% of their income to the church!

                    • ces

                      …let alone pay for the Ritilin.

                      Seriously.

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      ROLMAO!

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      oh yeah and I’m on the “F” on that one!

                • Animal Control

                  Thee is a distinction between Catholics and The Catholic Church–let’s keep an open mind and try not to generalize. IMO

                  • ces

                    Yup, people != policy. As is the case for a lot of institutions.

                    But still, I would assert that the Church’s message and policy has a lot of sway. If we followed Rome’s rules, Catholics would not use birth control, correct?

                    But your point is well made.

              • arran

                double down — There were 1.21 million abortions performed in 2005, which is lower than 1.31 million in 2000. In the 32 years from 1973 through 2005, there have been 45 million abortions in the US.

                The Guttmacher Institute, as Nom3 has referenced, is an excellent source of abortion information, and linked here:

                http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb induced abortion.html

                Legal restrictions for abortion do not affect their occurrences as the abortion rate in Africa is 29 per 1,000 women, aged 15 to 44, where, on the whole, abortion is prohibited, and 28 per 1,000 women in this age group in Europe where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.

                Back in 1971-1973, the emphasis was on safe procedures as well as choice.

                Actually, first, I’m pro-birth control, knowing how to use it and being a regular user.

            • Renee

              I have been a nurse for 33 years and I have never seen a women in the last trimester having to have a baby aborted in order to save her life, there is absolutely no medical diagnosis warranting this decision. That is like saying the only way to save your life is that we have to kill you! And not only is this absurd as a reason for doing this but the mother is at huge risk of dying due to complications! So they would be killing two for one!
              There is nothing that makes Tiller a life saver for women, the affect this will have a woman’s physical and mental health is devastating at the least. Again I repeat there is absolutely no condition that requires a woman to have to have a late term abortiion!!! End of story. The risks are too long to mention.
              Tiller the baby killer did this procedure knowingly how many times? And even if a child is malformed, or is a down’s syndrome that is not a reason to kill the baby in utero, this is murder! Many of these babies are born alive and are thrown into garbage cans to die.
              I am not sure how the conversation went when the doctor got to the gates of heaven and had his talk with Saint Peter and GOD, I am glad it was not me making these repetitive decisions to kill babies in helping a woman!

              • ces

                So, should we base policy off your experiences alone? Please site your references about “no” conditions for late term abortions. I’d genuinely like to see it.

                Of course, killing fetuses is awful, but it’s not always a black/white scenario.

                • ces

                  Googling “medical reasons for late term abortion” gave this as a first hit:

                  I’m not a doctor, so can’t vouch for the integrity of the list, but at least it’s a place to start.

                  If it were my wife and my unborn child, I’d want to know the facts, the statistics, and the options.

  • Babs

    I was just over at HP reading the comments – they’re almost ready to propose Dr. Tiller for sainthood, and since he was one of the few doctors in the country still performing third term abortions, I guess that falls into the realm of “glorifying”, eh? Look, I am pro-choice, have been for probably longer than most of you have been on this earth. But I draw the line at third term abortions where the doctor has to go into the baby’s skull with a tube while it’s still in the birth canal to suck out its brains so its not alive when it’s born. And the myth that these third term abortions are all to protect the health of the mother have been debunked by none other than Planned Parenthood itself. I wish I could provide a link, will search later, but the reasons given most by the women interviewed were that they didn’t know they were pregmant sooner, or that they were afraid to tell their parents, boyfriend, whomever. These third term abortions are murder to me, if that makes me in opposition to what most of you believe, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    • HARP

      I totally agree with you. No one should lose their life for this but late term abortion is over the line IMO. Is this the link you had in mind ?

      http://www.100abortionpictures.com/Aborted_Baby_Pictures_Abortion_Photos/

      • NomNomNom

        http://hopeforafghanistan.com/page4.htm
        the flip side of your coin

      • Docelder

        Harp, if those were pictures of dead puppies, the guy who did it would have spent time in jail. That is the irony of it. This is 2009, why with birth control so available and pregnancy tests being at every Walmart… why is this necessary in late term as a means of birth control? I understand, if the mother was in danger of death. That is a choice then… the mother or the baby. Though, I know my wife, she would have chose to save the baby had that been the choice. Honestly, if we can’t do batter than this as a people, maybe bin Laden was much right about us. Doesn’t make him justified, only a lot right in his assessment. Doesn’t make the killer of the doctor right either, but it doesn’t make dead babies any less innocent. Don’t even call these pictures of fetuses, these are dead babies. I guess this is my concern with pro-choice and it’s “movement”. Should abortion be a method of birth control? Anytime for any reason? If so, how about extending that into the babies first year? How about a year to wear the boots, and see how they fit? Then if parenting isn’t for you go see the doc. He will give the kid a lethal injection, and science can use the remains for research. Win win. Really, what is the difference between that and late term abortion?

    • lorac

      The issue of 3rd trimester abortions is immaterial. The question is whether we are a country of laws or not. The doctor was following the law. The murderer was not.

      People who don’t agree with 3rd trimester abortions (and I’m not particularly fond of them myself), need to attempt to change it through legislation. People complain about us “losing our country” – well, glorifying a murderer who took the law into his own hands is most definitely a step in the direction of losing what this country stands for.

    • lorac

      “These third term abortions are murder to me, if that makes me in opposition to what most of you believe, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.”

      That’s a separate subject. What has that to do with the law, with the man killing the doctor?

      I’m sure we all have things we feel very, very strongly about, things that people do that may lead to the death of others. If it’s okay for this guy to kill the doctor, then it’s okay for all of us to act on our strong beliefs. Do we really want to go back to the “Wild West”?

      It wasn’t self-defense, and no one’s life was in imminent danger. This killer should have worked through our legal system. There is no justification for what he did. His feelings or religious beliefs have nothing to do with the law, and they should have nothing to do with what the jury decides.

      I’m anything but a right-winger, but the constitution and the law are an integral part of this country. Sotomayor may want to use beliefs instead of the law, a lot of people cheer this guy for taking the law into his own hands – what is happening?

    • HC123

      You may consider late term abortions to be murder, but I hope you are not saying that this somehow justifies vigilante actions. I am not implying that you are, but rather clarifying that you are not. There is no way to excuse this brutal attack.

      Dr. Tiller was operating within the bounds of the law, providing a service some women want, and he was brutally shot down in broad daylight – right here in the USA.

      Even for those that are strictly pro-life, murder should not justify more murder. And nobody should want armed vigilantes roaming the streets.

      For the record, I am pro-choice and feel that family planning should be between one doctor and one pregnant female. I am not pro-abortion or pro-murder, as I have been called elsewhere.

      • lorac

        You know how people try to rename “pro-choice” as “pro-abortion”? I read somewhere else, and I agree with it, that really it’s “pro-life” that should be renamed. They tend to believe in the death penalty, have historically been against birth control (which could prevent abortions they say they don’t want), are often rather enthusiastic about war, and cheer this type of vigilante behavior – so really they should be called “anti-abortion”, not “pro-life”. Unless they valued ALL life, it’s just not accurate to be called “pro-life” – it’s just about this issue, so their name should have to do with the issue itself.

        Hillbuzz, which is probably 97% right wing now (and I do mean “wing”), has commenters so happy about this killer. They’re upset that Sotomayor may make legal decisions based on emotions and beliefs, but it’s okay for this guy to kill someone in cold blood for his beliefs. And what happened to the right wing belief in the rule of law? I guess it’s not convenient right now.

        • Ferd Berfle

          You know how people try to rename “pro-choice” as “pro-abortion”? I read somewhere else, and I agree with it, that really it’s “pro-life” that should be renamed.

          I concur, lorac. The term “pro-abortion”, is simply wrong. I know of no one who is “pro-abortion”. I could use the term “anti-choice” to define the right-to-life movement but will not do that. They are sincere in their desire to stop abortions, even though many of them will not consider something as simple as free access to birth control. What gets me is that no one seems to be approaching this from the standpoint of an actual policy that works. If the number of unwanted pregnancies is limited, so are the potential number of abortions. HRC was a champion of this issue and had the best policy. Again, I find myself pining for a real leader.

          • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

            Ferd: I find myself falling into that “pro-life” characterization trap too. Why do I do this? It’s more accurate to say “anti-choice”. You’re right and I should definitely be more mindful.

            • Ferd Berfle

              It’s not your fault, DC. We have been “trained” as it were, to use words in a rather injudicious way, myself included. I am working at being less subjective while making the same point. I think you are doing fine and I have no complaints. You speak your truth with honesty and candor. I could never ask for more of you.

    • Maria3

      Thank you, well said!!

      • Maria3

        To clarify, “Thank you, well said!!” is for Babs.

  • NomNomNom

    Thanks for the O’Reilly links DC Media girl, I had missed all that.
    And especially thanks for covering Dr. Tiller’s murder. Outside of the “women blogs’, there’s been very little coverage, and while the little that I’ve seen in articles has largely been neutral, the comments are often in support of the murder, from the name callers:
    “What’s the problem with the pro-death crowd? Tiller was killed by one of their own – a post-birth abortionist whose violent background looks quite simlar to bill ayers.”
    to the inadvertently humorous:
    “Funny – many of those who are sobbing for poor Tiller right now would have no qualms, if it were possible, to go back in time and kill Hitler before he started his murderous rampage.”
    Ya mean like with an abortion?

  • Babs

    HARP: No, I read it on a blog last night, and they had the link, but I was so tired I just never thought to bookmark it. It was a study paid for by Planned Parenthood, they interviewed 1900 women who had aborted pregnancies, and of that number 420 were late second or third term abortions. Of the 420 women interviewed, not one said she had sought an abortion to protect her own health. The majority of the 420 gave the 2 reasons I explained in my post, and then there were other reasons as well, can’t remember, sorry.
    HuffPo has some links under their article on this murder, one of them being a horrific story of a girl and her treatment at the hands of Dr. Tiller, they even have a picture of her within the story. I just don’t believe the guy is the saint everyone has been making him out to be. That does not mean I am condoning his murder, as I find that equally heinous.

  • JRD

    DCMediagirl,

    I really don`t BELIEVE that our former Kansas governor nor, the new attorney general of Kansas nor, the former attorney general GIVE A SHIT that this doctor is now DEAD!

    There are plenty of wackos out there. Any realist is aware of this fact.

    I believe both political parties have this “IN YOU FACE” childish response to this “emotional” issue.

    Cooler heads should prevail.

    I am sorry that this doctor is dead. I care, you care but, I don`t believe ANYMORE that politicians care that this doctor is DEAD is what I am saying. It`s all drama to them.

    This murderer was a nut. I believe that anyone who takes anyone else`s life is out of their mind. It is a fact that there are people out there who are out of their minds. The situation in Kansas should never have been allowed to get to this fever pitch. SOMEONE IS DEAD, DAMMIT!

    I`m tired of being played by both parties who don`t give a shit.

    I`m upset that someone died and politicians don`t care.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      Apparently Eric Holder cares:

      The murder of Doctor George Tiller is an abhorrent act of violence, and his family is in our thoughts and prayers at this tragic moment. Federal law enforcement is coordinating with local law enforcement officials in Kansas on the investigation of this crime, and I have directed the United States Marshals Service to offer protection to other appropriate people and facilities around the nation. The Department of Justice will work to bring the perpetrator of this crime to justice. As a precautionary measure, we will also take appropriate steps to help prevent any related acts of violence from occurring.

      Be that as it may, the point of my post is that Napolitano was right to point out that right-wing extremist groups are a threat to this country. Tiller, a doctor, was being protected by US Marshalls:
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/tiller2.htm

      That’s pretty much a clue that there are some sick, dangerous bastards running around who don’t fit the profile (cough cough **muslim** cough cough) of your “typical” terrorist.

      • lorac

        Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I heard at the time that they actually made up a left-wing list as well as a right-wing list, but the MSM only publicized the right-wing list.

      • Portia Elizabeth

        Pardon my skepticism, but anything coming out of the current admin. is suspect. This could be their opportunity to further clamp down on 2nd amendment rights.

        • Scout

          Yes, that’s true. A family member (his wife has a license to carry a hand gun) told me recently that ammunition for certain hand guns is becoming either very expensive or very hard to find. He doesn’t think guns will be “outlawed;” rather, ammunition will not be available.

    • Cindy

      JRD—-I agree with you whole-heartedly. It takes a grown-up attitude to admit that the politicians on both sides really don’t give a damn about anything but their career$

  • Babs

    HARP, no I read it somewhere in the middle of last night and wasn’t smart enough to bookmark it. It was a study commissioned by Planned Parenthood of 1900 women who had undergone abortions, and 420 of them were either in the late second term or the third term. It was very interesting and completely debunked the prevailing narrative that these late term abortions are always to either save the life of the mother or because the child was defective in some way. I’m searching for it now…….

    • NomNomNom

      if more than a fifth of all abortions were performed in just 3 clinics with 3 doctors the line would reach to freaking Mexico. what you suggest is not sense.

  • HC123

    First of all, my heart goes out to the family and friends of Dr. George Tiller. No person should have to experience the cold blooded murder of a loved one. It is simply horrible.

    Napolitano implied that rampaging white supremacist Iraq veterans posed a threat to national security on par with Muslim extremists. I guess step two was to begin monitoring people the government doesnt like, to prevent “future crimes”. This is a sippery slope folks, step 1 on the way to police state.

    This event was personal – the murderer wanted to kill this specific person for a specific reason. Those sorts of crimes are extremely difficult to prevent. Dr. Tiller’s murder should not be used as a political tool to advance government agendas.

    If there was a failure of law enforcement, let it be fixed but no, I dont need DHS monitoring my telephone, just because I voted McCain.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      HC123: You are not only paranoid but wrong. This event was not “personal”. This killer was a foot soldier of a fanatical, extremist and violent movement. These crimes are difficult to prevent but that doesn’t mean you don’t try to prevent them or that you don’t call this act by its proper name – terrorism. The doctor was being protected by US Marshals because he was being threatened by terrorists.

      • HC123

        I did not say such crimes should not be prevented or that we should not try to eliminate violence. What I said was no, I do not think this is terrorism that warrants a huge federal response, if that definition really matters. It was a tragic, horrible killing. A “hate crime”, if you like the term and murder isnt enough for you. But an open door for DHS to increase its influence? No thanks.

        I will give you another option open to the sick man who murdered Dr. Tiller. He walks into Dr. Tiller’s clinic during business hours and blows himself up, killing not only Dr. Tiller but many patients, nurses and other bystanders. Its within the realm of possibility but he did not choose this path. That is why I say it was “personal”. One man shot one man.

        If US Marshalls did not properly do their jobs it should be addressed. I said this explicitly.

        None of this gives Ms. Napolitano leave to imply that groups of US vets are so likely to commit acts of group terrorism they should be watched. It was such a ridiculous statement it was retracted almost immediately. And rightly so. Her statement SHOULD have been “jumped on”.

        As far as you calling me paranoid, police states do exist and the first thing they do is divide and conquer their citizenry, one group watching another. They love cases like this where one example can be used to modify the laws to give more powers to the central government to monitor citizens. I grew up in one, so I am fairly familiar with the concept. When I hear DHS say it needs to start watching Americans based on its am amazed that people think its ok. Or that I am “paranoid” to think its an overstep.

        So yes, I will continue to “jump on” DHS when it oversteps. And this has nothing to do with the tragedy of Dr. Tiller, however you choose to define it.

        • HC123

          Bleh, typos, we have kittens and they love the keyboard.

        • Scout

          I think we are already sliding down the slippery slope toward a police state. During the primary, a Hillary supporter who kicked B0 canvassers off her porch actually had secret service agents come to her home to interrogate her. And remember his FISA vote–he is interested in monitoring the people. And what is the purpose of an “internet czar?” Or a “civilian militia” under B0′s control? Call me paranoid, too, but there are too many little bits that, when added together, create more government surveillance and control of citizens.

        • Portia Elizabeth

          HC123– I completely agree with you! Well said!

    • Cindy

      HC123— I really think your statements and thoughts are excellent ones. The media hates the right so much, that you’d think they’re they only evil-doers.

  • marktarheel

    This clearly was not an act of terrorism…it was simple murder…..obama said that it was a “heinous act of violence’……but so is sticking a metal rod into a baby’s head and sucking out its brains…..thats the cold hard truth…

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      Here’s Randall Terry’s statement:

      http://www.earnedmedia.org/sftj0531.htm

      Using religion to justify killing someone in cold blood? Where have I seen that before?

    • lorac

      “This clearly was not an act of terrorism”

      Part of the definition of terrorism is the intent to intimidate through violence. You don’t think this was meant to scare other abortion providers and women seeking abortions?

      Vigilante behavior is not American. It’s what the Taliban does.

      • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

        Thank you lorac.

      • HC123

        So lets define Dr. Tiller’s murder as terrorism.

        How much more power would you like to give Ms. Napolitano and DHS because of it? How does it justify her comments about US veterans? Using Dr. Tiller to justify more DHS monitoring of Americans based on the criteria-du-jour is not OK with me. I will continue to “jump on” DHS oversteps just as much as I continue to “jump on” sexism in the media, for example.

        I think this post has a terrible title.

        Just because I think our government’s increaing ability to spy on its own citizens is fundamentally unamerican (and fairly scary) doesnt mean I condone the killing of Dr. Tiller.

        Just because I dont think this case warrants the full 9-11 terrorism treatment doesnt mean I dont take it seriously and want the people associated removed from society and placed where they can do no further harm.

    • http://noquarter foxyladi14

      two wrongs,do not make a right.

  • JRD

    DCMediagirl,

    I respectfully believe that you have the right to your opinion but, I have the right to mine.

    I believe that we are all being played. We are just all pawns in their little games.

    Holder is the same person who called us all cowards when it comes to race yet he dismissed the charges against the New Black Panthers. Isn`t it possible for some wacko to be pushed to the limit regarding voter intimidation?

    Yes, Holder is sending US Marshals but, is anyone going to own up to the fact that the politicians in Kansas allowed this situation to get to this fever pitch?

    The economic situation in this country has pushed plenty of people to the brink financially as to whether they can support their families or not. That is another emotional situation.

    What happened to the PUMA`s last year was another emotional situation.

    The “IN YOUR FACE” has to stop otherwise there will be more of the same. Doesn`t anybody respect the fact that actions have consequences?

    You are right that there are plenty of terrorists, not just the usual ones.

    My point is our baiting politicians are creating more of them.

    America needs politicians who behave as responsible adults not children.

    I`m sorry DCmedia girl, I no longer believe politicians in either party care. Someone`s life has been abruptly cut short but to these politicians this doctor is merely a casualty of war.

    I don`t believe Holder cares. It`s just more drama.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      The “IN YOUR FACE” has to stop otherwise there will be more of the same. Doesn`t anybody respect the fact that actions have consequences?

      You should direct that comment to Bill O’Reilly and the lunatics who put up Web sites targeting doctors who perform abortions, not to me.

      As for why Kansas politicians didn’t do more to stop this, I would ask them that question.

      May terrorists commit their crimes because of “emotion”.

      And sorry, but your PUMA comparison is grossly inappropriate. A man who was hounded for years and shot once before is dead.

      I’m sorry, but I don’t share your anarchic view of the world.

      • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

        I meant “MANY terrorists commit their crimes because of ‘emotion’”.

    • Docelder

      I don`t believe Holder cares. It`s just more drama.

      I agree Holder only cares about the larger agenda, and to that end Holder is probably ecstatic right now. What people don’t see is the larger underlying theme here… radical Islam, radical Christianity… it is ultimately going to morph into an attack on religion itself. Those who are just ideologues and look to every news article as another opportunity to further a single political agenda, are going to wind up nothing more than “useful idiots” in the end. In this regard, I find the “hows this working for you” sentence very telling. If you think religion can be radical, try on state worship. They call it fascism everywhere else but in Washington D.C.

      • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

        Docelder: Your post makes no sense at all, but if you equate fighting the influence of murderous fundamentalism with “an attack on religion itself” then you need to check yourself.

        • Docelder

          On what turf can anybody fight “fundamentalism”? Murder yes, but we already have adequate laws against that. What additional laws will we need to target radical fundamentalism? Tell me that this won’t morph into an attack on religion itself. Because, who then decides what fundamentalism is radical? Who… Napolitano, Holder, Obama? Who is qualified to say what defines radical fundamentalism from fundamentalist religion?

          • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

            Who is qualified to say what defines radical fundamentalism from fundamentalist religion?

            People ending up dead is one clue. Or my civil rights or the civil rights of those who don’t want your religious beliefs forced upon us. Just ask the Taliban. Or the Saudis.

            That “attack on religion” talking point has been in the right wing paranoiasphere for ages. I guess it depends on whose religion is being attacked or questioned.

            • Docelder

              Well the Taliban is an example of state sponsored religion, so you are making my point in a way. If we let the government approve or quantify religion at all, then we are going to end up with something like the Taliban. Maybe without the burkas, but still state sponsored religion.

              • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

                By your logic then anyone in the US with strong religious beliefs should be permitted to do as they like, including engaging in violent acts. I’m just not following your argument.

                • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

                  So if I say I lean pro-life then by your own definition I’m a terrorist-murderous Christian supporting fundie, correct? Is that essentially your bottom line?

                • Portia Elizabeth

                  I think you’re extrapolating erroneously. That’s a pretty big leap from what Doc actually wrote.

              • Cindy

                docelder—my husband and I talk almost every night about how the gov’t (and media) here in the US is becoming a version of Taliban.
                I think you offer very good points on this topic.

              • skinny malinky

                The Taliban is an example of religious fundamentals taking over a nation. I agree, we shouldn’t let the government promote any religion. There should be no prayer in schools, no 10 commandments posted at a courthouse, etc. You agree?

                • Ferd Berfle

                  LMAO

                  Why no, Skanky Malanky, by all means, the worship of That One should be promoted in all schools as he is the False Messiah.

                  Wow, do you stupid trolls ever ask a smart question?

                  • Portia Elizabeth

                    And to think: they get paid to post such drivel.

  • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl
  • JRD

    DCMediagirl,

    Let`s just agree to disagree. As I said before you have the right to your opinion.

    I realize that you feel someone`s life was taken that shouldn`t be. That is how I feel also.

    I am not calling you names as you are calling me by saying that I have an anarchic view of the world. I will excuse that statement because I understand that you are angry.

    I`m sorry but I don`t feel that right wingers are the only ones to blame here. Politicians deserve their share of the blame.

    Try to have a nice day. And thanks for the discussion.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      Thanks for the response. I noticed you totally dodged the points I brought up but you changed the subject so….sweetly, like a kindergarten teacher talking to a very small child. And you don’t have to excuse me. You can punish me by taking away my cookies and milk if you see fit.

      You’re an excellent debater. You have a nice day yourself.

  • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

    Wow…things got heated fast here.

    DCMediagirl- I understand your point of view on your post, but the anger that you are displaying in your post and in your comments aren’t helping your cause.

    For one thing, it seems you are painting “right wingers” and “pro-lifers” with a very broad brush. There are thousands upon thousands of pro-lifers whose only form of protest of abortion are either prayer services or peaceful protests. Yes, it’s sad that one of those who were pro-life went in the wrong direction, but that is not the behavior that is advocated by Republicans or Pro-life advocates.

    There was another doctor who does late term abortions on one of the cable news programs today and he compared pro-lifer’s to the Taliban. Now how is that constructive? Inciting more anger, more hate?

    • lorac

      I agree that he shouldn’t have compared all anti-abortion people to the Taliban – but I do agree with his point that vigilantes are behaving as the Taliban, not following a rule of law.

      I think anti-abortion and religious people who are anti-abortion should be the loudest voices condemning what the guy did. That’s the best way for them to distinguish themselves from him.

      • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

        Ok, he broke the law, he was arrested and will probably go away for life, unless the pro-choice can calls for his execution. Shouting out “the Rule of law” is ridiculous. He broke the law, he was caught, he will be punished.

        I think what’s really going on is that the pro-choice crowd really wants to hammer the pro-life supporters as being terrorists and supporting terrorism in an effort to scare people from being pro-life. “Uh-oh, you’re pro-life? You support terrorsts killing innocent civilians!”

        Im telling ya it ain’t gonna work.

        • Docelder

          Yes, being against abortion clinic bombings and against murders of abortion doctors is a far cry from being alright with abortion on demand at any time and for any reason. I don’t even know why pro choice people are for late term abortion on demand. Abortions are already legal in all states. Birth control is widely available and free to all those who can’t afford it. Late term abortion on demand solely self serving reasons is immoral. People can quote statistics about how many procedures there were, and that all but 1% were for legitimate reasons… well everybody knows the reasons that are deemed legitimate. Just because the doctor says the procedure was medically necessary, doesn’t make it so. Just ask any insurance adjuster whether doctors offices fudge paperwork. 1%… I am not buying that for a minute, all it means is that 1% are honest in filing out forms. That much I would buy.

          • Seattle Moss

            Late term abortion on demand solely self serving reasons is immoral.

            People procrastinating till the last minute to get an abortion are among the most selfish scum on the planet.

            They are just as bad as those that give birth and throw their babies in the dumpster.

            • Docelder

              They are just as bad as those that give birth and throw their babies in the dumpster.

              That is exactly the same thing as partial birth abortion. If a young teenager does this at home, it is murder. If a doctor does it so long as he gives an approved diagnosis, not only is it legal, he an get paid for doing it. Yet, we put Kevorkan types in jail for helping people in constant pain end their own lives, by their own choice. This “movement” is full of hypocrisy and self serving politics. Late term abortion for self serving reasons is immoral, and it ought to remain illegal.

    • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

      Mary Ellen: First off, don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that all pro-lifers are like this madman. I don’t know what the doctor you saw on cable did or didn’t say, although I fully agree that anyone who kills another human being in the name of religion is of the same mindset as the Taliban. What I noticed is that nowhere in your post do you condemn the shooter. Interesting.

      • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

        The fact that you just wrote that it was “interesting” that I didn’t “condemn the shooter” just shows how ridiculous your argument is and how willing you are to peg someone as sympathetic to the shooter just because they don’t agree that calling anyone who is anti abortion the Taliban, as I pointed out regarding the doctor that was interviewed on MSNBC.

        Really, you need to quit judging others so harshly when you know so little about where they stand on an issue. You are way too defensive when you need not be.

        As others have written above, I believe in the separation of church and state. I am not “pro” abortion, so therefore I have never had an abortion. I don’t try to keep others from following their own path. I am, however, sickened by third term abortions and condemn them to the highest degree. That doesn’t mean I want to go out and shoot the abortionist, I would rather we have laws passed that forbids it. It’s infanticide, pure and simple.

        If you want to make a valid point, do so..but I think you’re old enough to know how to do it in an intelligent manor without jumping down everyone’s throat who doesn’t agree with you 100%.

        • http://! stodgie

          mary ellen, i’ll chime in long enough to agree with you and say that i have already been down this road regarding the over reaction to comments on here by the lady who wrote this diary. there is no excuse for being rude. deal with that!

  • ForMySons

    Someone tell me how this nutjob is any different from Bill Ayers, and then maybe I’ll justify an arguement

    • beebop

      The past couple of weeks here has been a full on slaught on the right. That much is clear. Until we hold both sides to the same rules — something the MSM does not do — we are all doomed. Since 5/31 last year, my allegiance has been to this nation and not to any one party that believes it is the way.

      I am sorry that the fanatical beliefs of one human being ended the life of another, but the fanatical beliefs of that one person is that the doctor terminated lives on a daily basis. The rule of law may be on the side of the late doctor, but most people pushed to violence — even domestic violence — give not one good damn about the rule of law. It is only “terrorism” if you choose to see it that way. Is Bernie Maddox a terrorist? How many people have committed suicide left in ruins?

      I was a democrat because I had this silly notion that we believed in the little guy. Well. Apparently we only believe in the “guy.” So. If you believe that the good guys all wear blue and bad guys all wear red, you are a simpleton. Or. Just looking for an argument.

  • double down

    Killing an abortion doctor, while deplorable, is not a threat to national security. You perfectly well know this, and to maintain otherwise is immoral and indecent.

    Stop lying. Stop the agitprop. Stop it.

    Seizing upon this to attack you political opponents is particularly shameful and shows that you have no decent regard for actual events, the people involve or the Nation at large.

    Likewise attempting to glorify an late term abortion “doctor” for your political ends is immoral in the extreme. While vigilantism and murder cannot be countenanced by any decent, moral person, neither can infanticide be tolerated. Though Tiller did not “get what was coming to him”, he was a principle actor in acts that from a moral standpoint are highly questionable. To maintain otherwise merely wallow in leftist cant and immorality.

    This article most clearly shows the moral corruption, hypocrisy and depravity of the Left.

    Stalin and Mao kill hundred of millions of people.
    Abortion has claimed more than 40 million innocent lives. I suggest that you reflect on those fact before you further debase yourself. I doubt that you will take this advice. If you were an honest and decent person with a shred of integrity, you would own up to what a disaster the Left has been to human life and dignity, but you are not an honest person, you are a cultural Marxist.

    By demonizing abortion opponents, which comprise at least half the country (really more if you discount Democrat voter fraud, illegal camapign funding and media manipulation), you are courting a civil war with your agitprop. By insisting that abortion is a act of liberty and thus some sort of morally positive act, you are aligning yourself against centuries of moral knowledge and advance. You are standing against civilization itself.

    Stop imagining that vast majority of decent Americans hold abortion in te high regard that you do.

    You may regard it as some sort of sacrament to Marxism, but most of us think, at best, that it as a sign of profound moral failure, and, at worst, that it is murder.

    It is this Marxist coup that is being foisted on us that is the real threat to national security, not the death of an abortion doctor, however regrettable that death might be.

  • Obama: Dubya II Electric Boogaloo

    So now those who support pro-life positions (a majority now in the country recent polling finds) are basically supporters of “terrorists”. Half the country now can be shown as supporting terrorism as you define it.

    How is this supposed to help the pro-choice movement? Shaming people into dropping their pro-life support by labeling them whacky fundie Christian terrorists? What next? Should we waterboard pro-life activists so they can tell us the next doctor they plan to murder?

    And as far as being a nation of laws, the killer will be prosecuted and most likely sent to jail. See, the laws work.

    • Ferd Berfle

      What next? Should we waterboard pro-life activists so they can tell us the next doctor they plan to murder?

      That pesky Last-Refuge-of-Scoundrels (aka Patriot) Act will allow them to do it–just label someone a terrorist and voila-away they go to parts unknown. I’ve been yelling in that pickle barrel since I first posted on this website. It is a shame, really, that no one really understood except people like Larry, Susan, and a few others.

      • HC123

        Yes, exactly. This is my issue with this post. Once we can freely label Americans as terrorists and hand them over to DHS we are Syria. Nothing more.

        Linking this tragedy to Napolitano does no credit to the doctor and his grieving family and friends. Its just inflammatory.

        • Ferd Berfle

          I concur. We are only as free as the least among us. Do terrorists concern me–yes. Do those who would sacrifice my liberty for their own “feeling of safety and comfort” bother me-yes, and even more so. Freedom is not for the squeamish or those of little courage.

    • lorac

      “And as far as being a nation of laws, the killer will be prosecuted and most likely sent to jail. See, the laws work.”

      I’m not worried that he won’t be prosecuted. My calls to “the rule of law” are because it freaks me out to see so many people excusing his behavior, because he’s against what they’re against. That’s scary.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    what would you do/how would you react if a madman stormed a hospital and murdered all the babies in the maternity ward?

    legal or not, to anti-abortionists, abortion is murder. it is the equivelant to murdering children. just because you or I may be pro-choice, it doesn’t mean everyone else is – or that they can stomach it, or accept it.

    to some people, I would imagine, to not do anything to try to stop someone like this doctor is to just sit aside and allow a madman to murder babies.

    i absolutely do not condone the murder of this doctor.

    but i understand that there are those (and I must say, I am not in favor of late term abortions) who truly believe what is done to babies in the womb in the third trimester is murder.

    In fact, isn’t it true that if a pregnant woman is stabbed, or beaten, and the infant in the womb dies, the assailant can be tried for murder?

    and if a mother gives birth to a baby, even one premature, and allows it to die, she can be tried for murder?

    can’t a mother who is pregnant but does drugs be charged with child endangerment or wrongful death if the fetus dies?

    it’s a slipperly slope, indeed.

    as far as Oreilly… well, he truly believes abortion is murder, and that Tiller is a baby killer. So, like I said in my first sentance, what would you do if a madman stormed a hospital and killed a bunch of new born infants?

    to people like Oreilly, i assume, there isn’t much difference between in the womb and outta the womb – legal or not.

    • HC123

      Its the necessary marriage of this crime to the term terrorism and then immediately to Napolitano that baffles me.

      And then there is the absolute bile spewed at anyone who doesnt agree with the definitions and assumptions of the poster. This facism of thought is of huge concern to me personally. I do not condone the murder, I am pro choice, and I do not like the increasing role of DHS in the life of Americans. These things are not in conflict.

      What you say about people who believe life starts at conception is true and not crazy or mentally inconsistent. They proceed from a different premise (life starts at conception) but reach a rational conclusion. I dont share the premise, but if I did it would not mean I would condone shooting people or be predisposed to “terrorism” and require watching by Ms. Napolitano.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Where is the middle ground? Where are the pragmatists on this issue? How does this country get beyond this issue? I personally do not like abortion in any trimester and believe in birth control. But this very opinion makes me some flaming liberal, which I certainly am not.

      Where do we go from here? I can suggest solutions but run into the “the Bible says this” argument. Well, apparently God gave us the ability to reason for some purpose other than finding new and improved ways to populate the planet, otherwise we wouldn’t have politics to ruin an otherwise perfect day.

      • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        i would like to see abortion down to the morning after pill, and then only for cases where the woman is in harm, or the fetus is seriously serisouly ill, like missing a brain or something.

        but, i would also like to see all the unwanted/orphaned/foster children cared for, first.

        and i would love to keep the bible out of everthing.

        • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

          I couldn’t agree with you more.

        • Ferd Berfle

          That is a good starting point and I agree. The rubber meets the road, though, when actually trying to make a compromise such as this work. We’ve been at it since the 1973 decision to no avail. And the Bible has no place in this, as far as I’m concerned.

          • beebop

            Getting the Bible out of it is almost impossible.

            Weren’t people asking what church the 0bamas go to? Isn’t half of the argument of the uber right is that those on the uber left are “godless?”

            It is not going to be easy to try to make this an “intellectual” discussion with people with anti abortion bumper stickers on their cars whose children are not seated and wearing seat belts and buzz through school zones! It is that kind of disregard for the life here and now that makes me just want to cry!

            • Ferd Berfle

              I understand and you are correct. We must try, however. This polarizing issue has gone on far too long and has yielded nothing but horrible Presidents (Clinton aside) and nothing but unnecessary division. We can deal with it or suffer the consequences, as we been for too many years. A compromise of some sort is in order.

              • Ferd Berfle

                Yikes, –”We can deal with it or suffer the consequences, as we have been for too many years”.

              • beebop

                Elected officials must lead the way. This is settled law. To constantly drag roe v wade into Presidential elections every four years as if that were the only reason for women to vote is not just insulting, it fans the flames of this fanatacism and then things like this murder take place. ENOUGH. Either throw it back to the states or leave it alone.

                • Ferd Berfle

                  Agreed.

              • NomNomNom

                Huh??? What do you mean “compromise”? Right now I have a right to an abortion in the first 2 trimesters unilaterally and in the third trimester under a fairly narrow set of circumstances. Me giving up some of my rights is NOT COMPROMISE. That’s you winning and me losing. Not interested, thx.

            • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

              I am a Christian (Catholic) and I don’t have an anti-abortion sticker on my car, neither have I buzzed through school zones or not put seat belts on my kids. And yet, I am pro-life. Nice broad brush you’re stroking there.

              This is why there is so much anger, accusations about how YOU perceive those who are pro-life that are totally off the wall.

              • Ferd Berfle

                If you are talking to me, you are way off base. I am neither for you nor against you. I am simply documenting the divisions which have been thrust upon us through no fault of our own.

              • beebop

                Uh … oddly, I am quite sympathetic to those who believe in the sanctity of life — for them. Their efforts to enforce their belief system on women when there is law that grants choice is where I have an issue. Just as I did with those who condemned Sarah Palin for making her own choice. Since I am not a mentalist, I normally reserve my perceptions for those things I have actually observed.

                You might want to read all of my posts on this thread, doll face.

        • HC123

          I would like to see abortion safe and rare like Hillary Clinton.

          I would like to keep it out of the hands of the state as much as possible, and in the hands of pregnant women and healthcare practitioners as much as is possible.

          Lets not craft laws based on the shock value .0001% of cases, ever. Not just for abortion.

          Lets craft them on principles to which we adhere even when they are uncomfortable.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Agreed. Laws should not be crafted to punish those who have made a mistake or who were ignorant. On the other hand, education on birth control is far superior to another unwanted and uncared for child. The alternative is hideous.

            • beebop

              And giving birth to children should not be a family “business” a la government dole.

              • Ferd Berfle

                I agree, beebop. My position is not far from yours.

                • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                  Oh, you don’t know the countless wonders of welfare I’ve known that had it timed so that they always had a child under the age of six. Families that were comprised of third, fourth, and fifth generation welfare recipients. Also, the slip and fall clowns were in the mix.

                  It was enough to get this rather liberal Democrat to think again.

                  • Ferd Berfle

                    I cannot imagine what you’ve seen, Buzz, but I’m am understand from a layman’s POV. My God, where are the sane people who look at a problem, see the source, see the effects, and act accordingly? Are we to deny reality here?

                    There are any number of tools available which can lead one to a correct “diagnosis and prescription”, as it were. But in this PC world, we cannot divulge this information as it might hurt someone’s feelings. Christ.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      but I’m am understand from a layman’s POV

                      Wow. I meant, “but I do understand from a layman’s POV”.

                      Sorry.

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      When I actually got out of the Ivory Tower and dealt with people who were making welfare their career, I soon lost all the hopey dopey make the world a better place by being so helpful and forgiving. I found out that a majority of them were con-artists in some form. If they weren’t trying to fool you to feel sorry for them, they were fooling themselves into illness, injury, or addiction. The worst part: the women who would have children (by any old sperm donor) in order to not be kicked off the state’s welfare rolls.

                      It was always the kids that suffered most because they had no role models of how to be self determining beyond sponging off of the government.

                      I’ve seen a family try to clean out a school office by force because they weren’t picked for the free Christmas basket. I’ve had parents come unglued because the state check for gas didn’t arrive in the mail. I’ve seen women actually delighted that their teen daughters were having a child because it meant more money, food stamps, WIC and whatever else they could sign up for.

                      So extremism takes many forms. It isn’t just the right wing religious nuts or lefty hoperdopers or those of the William Ayers ilk. It takes the form of all take and no give, also.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      So extremism takes many forms. It isn’t just the right wing religious nuts or lefty hoperdopers or those of the William Ayers ilk. It takes the form of all take and no give, also.

                      I’m sorry that is the case. All I can say, Buzz, is that I’m glad someone with both a heart and a brain like you was there and that I empathize with you. I often wonder if there is so much to do and so little time to do it if we’re not already screwed even before we get started.

                      Ferd

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      My fear about Obama and his agenda has been that he will promote this lifestyle as a bona fide solution to poverty. His left wing socialism will give the rats the right to overrun the ship, thus lowering living standards for the country.

                    • Scout

                      I have felt this concern as well. Like you have, I work with multi-generation welfare recipients.

                      I firmly believe that, over time, welfare is damaging to families. When it’s used beyond emergency situations, welfare insinuates itself into how a family thinks and acts. Initiative, creativity, drive, and independence all fall away. Children no longer inherit these qualities and the welfare cycle becomes permanent.

                      I think it is very damaging, and at times I’ve thought that B0 wants to create a permanent welfare class.

                      Compare that to Hillary’s oft repeated comments about a nation in which all persons can reach to the limits of their potential.

                    • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

                      Well put, Scout.

                      And thanks, Ferd.

        • KmX

          I have to wonder why all these LATE TERM ABORTION DOCTORS are MALE. Why isn’t there one female OB/GYN who performs LATE TERM ABORTIONS?

          Why can’t a woman who decides she doesn’t want to care for child with a disability make this decision before the baby is viable outside the womb. Why wait until the baby is practically full term in the womb to decide to rip the brains apart and suck it out of her body.

          Women must be educated to make wiser decisions.
          LAte Term abortions is just murder in utero.

          • Ferd Berfle

            This is going too far. Doctors do nothing except on the agreement of their patients and patients have a right to the treatment of their choice. The only time I will lay blame on a Doctor is when they do not present all the facts. Who are you to say otherwise? You dislike abortion–then don’t have one. I know I haven’t nor has my wife. That doesn’t mean I should decide for all people. You should attend to you own knitting.

            • KmX

              DO you realize some states ban late term abortions. It is not legal in Minnesota that’s why some women have to be flown to Kansas. And even in kansas it is only legal if there are two doctors approving the procedure. Many times Dr. Tiller did nto have that second signature. that’s why he was sued several times.

    • lorac

      “to some people, I would imagine, to not do anything to try to stop someone like this doctor is to just sit aside and allow a madman to murder babies. ”

      But the point is, he made no attempt to “stop someone like this doctor” through legal means. The killer’s belief that the doctor was murdering would be a justifiable reason for working through legal channels.

      The only time it is okay to murder a murderer is if life is in imminent danger, and that’s not true – the guy was in church (imminent means something is going to occur right away).

      The killer had a choice as to how to “stop the doctor”, but his choice was the illegal way. Therefore, I don’t believe the “strengths” of his beliefs are any justification. When people bring up his beliefs, I believe they are obscuring the fact that the guy had a choice of how to act on his beliefs.

      • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarinitaly

        agreed. i am against any kind of violence like that. there will always be fanatics/lunatics who take law into their own hands.

        not saying it is right, or justified. just trying to think about the why.

        however, “But the point is, he made no attempt to “stop someone like this doctor” through legal means. The killer’s belief that the doctor was murdering would be a justifiable reason for working through legal channels.”

        the legal authorities HAVE been trying to stop this guy for quite a while, but the charges haven’t yet stuck… perhaps the shooter was tired of waiting while lawyers kept getting the doctor off, or the charges were getting dropped, and in the meantime, the doctor aborted 60,000 fetuses in his career. perhaps to someone who is that against abortion, it was unbearable, and did seem life threatening and that there were *babies* in immenent danger?

        • Seattle Moss

          American girl in Italy,

          You are one smart pragmatic woman…

          I love your posts!

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

            thanks moss!

  • Doc99

    By the logic above, I supposed Napolitano is then responsible for This. Yes I know – Of course that’s absurd.

  • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

    Alarmism at it’s best.

    Agreed with ForMySons. Tell me how a rightwing murderer is any different than William Ayers or his wife.

    And since we’re there. How is it okay for Obama to be such close friends with a known terrorist but not okay for others to support religious views? NOTE: I didn’t say extreme rightwing religious views.

    By the way, I am pro-choice so don’t rake me personally over the coals.

    • beebop

      I believe in choice as well. But. When we saw how Palin’s choice was treated by the left, I saw many of their opinions as being the intellectual equivalent of mandating abortion when the infant is not perfect. What the hell?

      • Scout

        I was disturbed by that as well. It was clear to me that many of my pro-choice friends (and I am pro-choice) were only pro-choice if the woman’s choice was the same one they would have made. Those Palin/Down Syndrome/who is the baby’s real mother? conversations I has with friends were eye-openers to say the least. I lost respect for folks whose worship of B0 let them go after Palin in such a hateful manner.

        On the other hand, many pro-lifers are so anti-life that it’s laughable. Pro-life, pro-capital punishment, and can’t be bothered to care for kids who are actually born. What a combination. Their hypocrisy is equally stunning.

        What I’d like to see is some rationality and consistency. Like, not valuing a fetus more–or giving it more “rights”– than the woman whose body supports it; making abortion as rare (but safe and legal) as possible; providing prenatal care and adoption services; working to end misogyny and growing young women who value themselves; and respecting women who give birth to non-perfect babies as well as those who know they cannot do so. These things would be a start, at least.

        • Ferd Berfle

          Amen.

        • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

          providing prenatal care and adoption services; working to end misogyny and growing young women who value themselves; and respecting women who give birth to non-perfect babies as well as those who know they cannot do so. These things would be a start, at least.

          I have said this on an earlier comment. Catholic Charities does just that, and yet Catholics are being condemned on this blog because they are pro-life. Catholic Charities provides Adoption, Foster Care, Transitional Housing for single mothers who need to finish school and support their children (housing is free and they are given an allowance for school). Women are given the opportunity to keep their children or put them up for adoption in lieu of having an abortion. All medical costs to the pregnant mother before and after birth are provided for free. This is all paid for by Catholics and not the taxpayers.

          It’s amazing how easy it seems for some to condemn Catholics and Christians when they have no idea what it is that they are providing in lieu of adoptions. Let’s stick to the facts.

          • Scout

            I hope you do not think I was condemning Catholics. My statement was more of an overall vision, not a denouncement of a particular group.

            I am gay, Christian, pro-choice, a mother to a pre-adolescent daughter, and a pediatrician who works in a poor, urban community– so my life, and consequently my thinking, is tempered by complexity. What I was commenting on is the overall lack of rationality, complexity, and consistency in people’s views on these matters.

            I have a friend who is a lawyer for Catholic Charities and so I am aware of their good work. In fact, though I disagree with many Catholic doctrines, I have long admired the tireless work for justice that is sponsored by the Catholic church.

            However, we cannot pretend that these services are widespread, freely available to all who would need them, or even compatible to all because of their religious associations. We need what CC is doing, and we need much more, and we need non-secular services too.

            IMHO

            • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

              I agree with you, it would be nice to have widespread work that is done by Catholic Charities by a secular group and I do appreciate your thoughtful comment.

              I have to wonder, though, how many of those on this blog who have painted Christians and Catholics who are pro-life or anti-abortion as not caring about the fetus after it is born have stepped up to the plate for any single mother or pregnant teen and offered to help support their babies so they don’t have to abort. Pro-choice is nice, as long as mothers have a choice besides abortion.

              I don’t think I’ll ever see in my day, the government coming forth to actually do more than lip-service to this issue. I can’t tell you how many politicians have used that line about wanting abortions to be fewer and safe. What has any politician done, Democrat or Republican to make that happen? Nada.

              Again, thanks for your thoughtful comment.

              • Scout

                Thanks, Mary Ellen.

                One of the reasons I supported Hillary Clinton so tenaciously was that she not only talks the talk, she walks the walk.

                She has worked on pregnancy counseling, making foster care safer for kids, supporting adoption, and has been a tireless advocate for women’s rights.

                But there aren’t many who’ve achieved what she has, or who have worked so hard for so long on behalf of families in our country.

                • http://noquarter foxyladi14

                  and thats exactly why she is our HERO..

            • Ferd Berfle

              Scout: All too often efforts such as yours are ignored or overlooked and for that I am sorry. May I say many thanks for your service–I am certain that they are a Godsend to your community and I applaud your efforts.

              • Scout

                Ferd,

                I wasn’t fishing for a compliment, but it was sure kind of you to offer one! Thanks.

                • Ferd Berfle

                  Scout:

                  I wasn’t fishing for a compliment, but it was sure kind of you to offer one! Thanks.

                  Thanks. But the secret is that I know you weren’t fishing and such knowledge comes with the territory with which I am familiar. You are a humanitarian and as such you deserve accolades. This isn’t about anything other than you and the work you do. There are so many people who talk and so very few who do. You do and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

            • Portia Elizabeth

              Scout –thank you so much for posting this! Your opinion is a valuable one.

              • Scout

                You’re welcome. This has been an interesting conversation all around.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Those of us in the center, beebop and Buzz, have to educate the rest of society on this issue, apparently. Compromise isn’t a derogatory term when confronting this issue–it is all we may have in order to remove this from the politician’s bag of tricks to divide a country into irrelevant and powerless subgroups. I want the radical center to take the reins from these no-account bozos who do nothing but divide and conquer.

        • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

          Count me in! This kind of crap from the left is just as polarizing and ridiculous as what was given for example from the right.

          The only thing extremists from either side care about is their anger and their agenda.

          • beebop

            Spot on.

            Dogma is dogma and it doesn’t matter who is shouting slogans and raising pitch forks come the end of the day. An assault on the center is an insult to our intelligence.

            • Ferd Berfle

              Beebop and Buzz–thank you both.

              Ferd

        • Scout

          Ferd, if the center is where rationality and consistency are found, then you can count me in too.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Ferd, if the center is where rationality and consistency are found, then you can count me in too.

            It is, Scout. As a Chemist, I find truth in rationality, consistency, and an unswerving devotion to that which is demonstrable.

            • http://! stodgie

              ferd, there is nothing wrong with having a right and left side otherwise there could be no middle. (smile) it is the power being given to these two sides and their attacks and destruction of the constitution and our cheristed rights/way of life that alarm me. the media as we all know played an important part. there will always be sides but the dumbing down of americans aided by the media certainly helped this slow dance to chaos.

  • candymarl

    I agree that Dr Tiller’s murderer should be prosecuted to the furthest extent of the law. If the killer is a part of a group that advocates and encourages such violence they should be punished as accessories.

    But Ms. Napalitano’s list of potential terrorists included “disgruntled returning veterans, constitutionalists, and Ron Paul supporters.”

    These types of extremeist groups have been around long before Ms. Napolitano arrived on the scene and the Patriot Act was passed. When captured they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Are so-called liberals/progressives now for the Patriot Act that they marched against?

    If I remember correctly at least part of the federal government’s defintion of terrorism is the use of intimindation, coercion, or violence to achieve a political objective. Isn’t that what happened at at least one polling place with the New Black Panthers? But AG Holder dropped that case. Isn’t that what Ayers did? But he’s as free as a bird and is a professor.

    I hope this murderer and all who gave him assistance are taken care of by the laws against murder on the books.

  • xax

    This is COMPLETE BULL!!

    What that man did was wrong there’s no doubt about that, but to somehow label all those who disagree with abortion as responsible is just as bad. You yourself are engaging in the same behavior that you accuse O’Reilly of- inciting anger, disgust and hatred towards specific groups. In this case, conservatives. If I get hit by an out of control leftist, should I blame you? Do not try and add the disclaimer, your reference of that Napolitano report and link to that article told me all I need to know. The final sentence is moot.

    O’Reilly characterizing Tiller as a baby killer may offend some people, but for pro life people, abortion is murder. Period. Call the characterization, grossly exaggerated, but it in no way shape or form means that you should go out and kill another person because they perform abortions. Tiller’s death was murder. Period. And terrorism is the correct term to use here.

    As far as him being a threat to “national security”-
    1. It’s funny to me how people on the left/right are willing to co opt the very phraseology that they claim to hate unless it suits their purpose. You claim he was a foot soldier in some movement, exactly what group did he belong to? What was the movement? What do they want to accomplish? I know people threatened Tiller- but what group did they belong to? If you find the group(s)- then put them on the list. If not, then it was just a personal vendetta against Tiller. I see no evidence of organization. You’re just waging a broad war against anyone who thinks abortion is murder. That was the problem with Napolitano’s report, (and your reasoning) she never defined exactly who was the threat. Thanks to Napolitano, I became a right wing extremist, and I work in a freaking library.

    2. The man is in custody, which means he is no longer a threat to anyone. If they wish to seek the death penalty against him, they have every right to.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Your use of the term “pro-life” does not in anyway characterize the actions of that pitiable man. One cannot be pro-life and kill a Doctor at the same time. It truly defies reason and logic. The man who killed him was not pro-life by any stretch of the imagination.

      As to national security, the threat to national security is a DHS call, a department which never should have existed in the first place. Thank Dubya for that crappy department. It never should have been created in the first place. Disband it.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Crickets again.

      • Docelder

        Disband it.

        Yes, but this goes to the comments I made the other day about Sotomayor being a sacrificial lamb to get to Kagan. What does the most powerful man in the world want? More power. This One isn’t going to do anything that reduces his power. Mark my words, he has no intentions of going away after 8 years. No intention. He is a power hungry megalomaniac, and his people follow him to the shearing house to be shorn like sheep follow their shepherd.

  • Texas Playwright

    Whew, I am exhausted from reading this entire post and comments! Thank goodness Larry, Susan and team have the guts to post hard topics like this. I interpret this post as a reminder that extremists come in all varieties, including some from America.

  • JozefAL

    I just love some of the comments about how the anti-abortion folks should be out in full force condemning Roeder, to show how they’re somehow more “moderate”.
    Such a suggestion reminds me of how the Right-wingers were constantly spouting off how moderate Muslims should publicly condemn the actions of Muslim terrorists and extremists while, at the same time, these Righties were blanketly writing and speaking about how Islam was a violent religion. The funny thing was that moderates in Islam were typically ignored by American media or, when they did make the media rounds, the righties simply ignored them outright and continued with the general “Islam = violence” meme. Also, when matters would turn to the Mideast and how moderate Muslims should be more forceful in speaking out against the extremists, the righties would simply ignore the fact that these guys were the equivalent of abortion providers in this country–liable to be assassinated or murdered for their actions.

  • Chance

    No less than 2 months ago, you guys (NOQUARTER) were making fun of DHS’s report.

    http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2009/04/17/suspected-radical-republican-bees-infiltrate-the-white-house-grounds/

    -Uppity Woman April 17, 2009 at 2:55 PM

    It’s always funny until someone loses an eye.

    • Ferd Berfle

      DHS is a POS, even though your own shill is in charge of it. Any more questions, dim-bulb?

      • Chance

        Your cryptic comment means nothing to me. I don’t own a shill, and have no relation to one.

        Lastly, I didn’t ask any questions….it was a comment about this sites continued hypocrisy.

        • Ferd Berfle

          Fuck you, then.

  • JozefAL

    Another point I’d like to make. I frankly don’t give a shit whether “you” personally believe that abortion is murder nor whether “you” believe that late-term abortion is “infanticide”. The fact is that, if ALL life is so sacrosanct, then be prepared to pay for that ideal. You CANNOT simply stop caring for these “people” while they’re in the uterus. Once they’ve been born, they still have to be cared for and raised. (And the odds are that a child whose mother had considered a late-term abortion will be in dire need of major, and very costly, medical care, but where are the “right-to-lifers” when the kids have been born? Pretty much, they’re gone. They don’t care once that child has emerged from the uterus.)
    For the final time, an abortion REGARDLESS of when it happens should only be a concern for the woman and her doctor. (If the woman wants to involve others, that should be HER choice and hers alone.) I so love the fucking hypocrisy of these people who are so paranoid about “governmental intrusion” in every other aspect of their lives can’t get it through their skulls that the government has no business deciding what a woman does when she’s in the doctor’s office. Bottom line: If you don’t support abortion, DON’T HAVE ONE. If you don’t want your underaged daughter to have an abortion, provide her with useful birth control information and make sure she understands the consequences of unprotected sex if she decides to become sexually active while in her teens. (While ostensibly less of a concern for your underaged son, he too should be made aware of the consequences of unprotected sex and HIS part in using birth control if HE becomes sexually active as a teen.) If you’re a man and you want to really do your part in preventing abortions, have a fucking vasectomy; otherwise, you can just keep quiet. YOU don’t have to worry about getting pregnant and YOU don’t have to deal with the effects of pregnancy or the emotional turmoil of deciding whether you want the baby or not.

    • beebop

      While ostensibly less of a concern for your underaged son,

      I dunno know about that … masterbation has never resulted in a live birth. I have a real issue with the “partner” believing that birth control is for the “innie.” :)

    • http://me414.wordpress.com/ Mary Ellen

      You CANNOT simply stop caring for these “people” while they’re in the uterus. Once they’ve been born, they still have to be cared for and raised. (And the odds are that a child whose mother had considered a late-term abortion will be in dire need of major, and very costly, medical care, but where are the “right-to-lifers” when the kids have been born? Pretty much, they’re gone. They don’t care once that child has emerged from the uterus.)

      I’m going to keep harping on this FACT when I see comments like this written.

      Google Catholic Charities, paid for by Catholics, not the taxpayers. They pay for pre-natal care and post-natal care. They offer Transistional Housing (furnished apartments and homes) for single mothers who just need to get back to school so they could raise their children. They have a Head Start program for pre-school and Kindergarten children. They supply healthy meals and medical care for these children. All done so the mother does not have to have an abortion.

      Google Catholic Charities…open your eyes.

  • o

    Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller

    “I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, ‘What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today’s event in Kansas?’

    Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller’s abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message.”

    Governor Sarah Palin
    http://www.sarahpac.com/news/

    • Portia Elizabeth

      Wonderful comment. The more I hear from Sarah Palin, the more I like her.

  • ConfusedAmerican

    This is getting so stupid about trying to blame one party or the other for being sexist…

    Yes both parties have their idiots who seem to spit out sexist innuendoes more often than not. Yet the vast majority of these idiots are not party poster people.

    Most of the noted sexist idiots just happen to be noted people who just happen to spurt out political views very similar to one of the political parties. That by no means insinuates that it the political standing of a particular political.

    Right now most of us dont even pay attention to the word Racist because it was so over used during last year’s election.

    If us women dont quit pointing fingers at the political parties we will end up with the same problem.
    Lets quit over using the word sexist and quit jumping on the band wagon of someone just because they are female…

    Can we not learn from the mistakes of the last election??

  • Babs

    I was surfing the blogs before running some errands this morning, and I kept seeing posts about the horrible pro-lifers defending this murder, writing their obscene posts about how Dr. Tiller got his just rewards and will be judged in Heaven, on and on and on. The anonimity of the internet gives me pause as to how many of the “obscene” posts are really from the pro-life community and how many are from the left posing as such and trying to incite others to believe that all pro-lifers are radical like Mr. Roeder, thus making it easier to buy the “terrorist” label and affix it to that particular group of people. I remember during the primaries the horrific racial posts about Obama, many of them from “Hillary supporters”, and wondering if many of them weren’t plants to make reasonable people buy the “racist” theme that the Obama people profited from so enormously.
    Pro-lifers are the lady next door, the man who fixes your car, the co-worker you share a lunch table with at work. The far right wing extremists should be watched very carefully, as should those from the far left, but let’s not fall into the trap of labeling their entire belief system as “terrorism” just because of the vile actions of one man.
    Bill Ayers was a terrorist, and his actions, and the actions of those like him, caused great harm to the legitimacy of the citizen campaign against the Vietnam War. I would hate to see that same thing happen to the majority of peaceful, good people in the pro-life movement, many of whom I know well and consider friends.

    • xax

      You’re creepy.

      You should be watched.

  • ConfusedAmerican

    Comment lost in spin cycle

  • Linda

    I am a big fan of the Bill O’Reilly show.I don’t think there is anything to apolgize for. The killing of this Dr is indeed a tragedy. However, O’Reilly reported the facts. So how is he responsible for this man’s death.

    • listing starboard

      Meanwhile while the smug on this blogsite can’t resist any opportunity to unleash the pent up hatred from the last 8 years for anything Republican or “right wing” there was a fatal shooting of a brave young new military recruit outside of a recruiting office in Arkansas, another new recruit was wounded. Will there be increased security at Military recruitment offices just like abortion clinics?

    • masslib

      Reported the facts? LOL. Are you kidding me? The doctor will kill any fetus up until the time of birth for any reason is an outright LIE, not fact. How sad that you would defend a guy who clearly targeted this physician in a completely irresponsible manner.

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    my prayers to the families of both.
    the innocents must suffer the most..

  • KmX

    Tiller’s death did not vindicate Napolitano. SHe made a mistake when she labeled domestic terrorists as Right Wing extremists and made no mention of left wing extremists or muslim extremists. A black extremist gun down 2 soldiers in Arkansas today, do you see conservatives making outrageous remarks about it? Scott Roeder was a known anarchist to the Homeland secuirty. The killer of Tiller was not a conservative. He was an anarchist. And archachist come in all types.

    Having said all that, we should not assume this murderer was part of the Pro Life movement anymore than Al Gore or the Sierra Club was responsible for the Unibomber horrendous acts. Remember Al Gore book was found in the cabin fo this terrorist.

    • anon

      Napolitano knows what she’s talking about.

      Name an act of domestic terrorism during the past 30 years that was perpetrated by leftists.

      Ask that same question concerning acts of domestic terrorism committed by people on the far right and you can make a very long list.

      As yourself who composes the weekend militias, who’s buying the assault weapons, who’s vehemently anti-government, who’s talking revolution, who’s the most paranoid, who’s most likely to act out.

      Like the man said, You don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

      • KmX

        I just told you about the horrendous Act in Arkansas today. The shooter is a leftist. DOink the convict who gun down 3 cops in LA last motnh was a right wing extremist? No he too was a leftist.

        Left wing anarchist did serious damage to the city of St. Paul during the last RNC convention. Anarachist are on the increase and they can be left wing or right wing or no affiliation.

        Scott Roeder was a deranged murderer. Dr. Tiller knew he was performing late term abortions. A practice that is illegal in Kansas unless 2 doctors approve it.

        But I always hear you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Never mix good and evil. And Dr. Tiller was doing evil and going to church. Tiller was murdering these babies in utero just because they had disabilities.

        Under Tiller many people with handicaps were eliminated. I am sure Scott Roeder will get the death penalty. But I do hope he gets the proper treatment for his mental problems.

        • anon

          Who said the shooter in Arkansas was a leftist? On what information do you base that assertion?

          Whether Dr. Tiller was evil–and therefore deserving of death–is a matter of opinion. Some expecting mothers might question the moral rightness of allowing a pregnancy to continue, once they’ve learned that something has gone terribly wrong, and that a particular, irremediable, catastrophic outcome to the pregnancy is inevitable.

          I saw O’Reilly’s unapologetic commentary on the shooting today. The man turns my stomach. He still presumes to judge the victim of the shooting, while making it oh so very clear that he opposes the actions of the murderer. This from the man who summed Dr. Tiller up as a “baby killer”. He threw in the fact today that Dr. Tiller earned around a million dollars a year, suggesting, I suppose, that this evil man killed babies for the money.

          Then we’ve got Operation Rescue’s Randall Terry, who said of Dr. Tiller: “Unless some miracle happened, he left this life with his hands drenched with the innocent blood of tens of thousands of babies that he murdered. Surely there will be a dreadful accounting for what he has done.”

          Screw O’Reilly and screw Terry. They’re spokespersons for religious terrorism, plain and simple. The radical Muslim terrorists responsible for so many deliberate homicides are also quite certain they know what God thinks, and know what God wants them to do.

          Perhaps Dr. Tiller was a dedicated man who thought he knew what heartwrenching work God had put him in the world to do. Why else would he have made himself a walking target of extremists for almost 40 years, rather than work in dermatology as he’d originally intended? This wasn’t the first time he’d taken bullets for doing what he did.

          http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/273465

          • anon

            BTW, from this point forward, if you’re a young American woman whose health or very life depends upon a late-term termination of a pregnancy–or if you discover late that your fetus is anencephalic or will be born mentally defective and with horrendeous physical malformations–you’ll probably have no one left to turn to. But rest assured that people such as Randall Terry will be satisfied knowning that God is happy with the situation.

      • Ferd Berfle

        Who put the bee in your bonnet, Goob? I would surmise that you got your little backside downwind and got nailed.

        • NomNomNom

          Ferd Berfle, plz lay off the Goob. As a southerner, it’s extremely offensive. Just ask Eastan. :)

          • Ferd Berfle

            Well. since you’ve never responded to me before when I responded to you and since you never found the time to make an acquaintance, I’ll just tell you to cordially go f-yourself. By the way, moron, I’m a southerner, too, except Il call them as I see them.

            • NomNomNom

              stating that I have never responded to your comments before is quite inaccurate, though it’s true that I often respond to comments made during the day late at night after I get off work, and I surmise you have not noticed.
              I don’t think I asked in way that was offensive either. your response seems a little crazy.

              • Ferd Berfle

                You haven’t responded, asshole and my gut reaction is for you to go fuck yourself. I mean, really–take a 3-inch pole an perch and rotate and then sit and spin. I don’t care a tinker’s cuss what you do other wise, pseudo souther man who finds some way to piss me off. Do you need any more hints, troll?

                • NomNomNom

                  then go back and check your post about chromium picolinate and you’ll see who posted last. I was actually genuinely interested since my sister is a chemist and I like chemistry and like reading about it.
                  but I don’t think I’d like you.
                  as for pissing you off, in light of your bizarre response I fail to see why the fuck I should care what you think.
                  I might add, it seems most everyone pisses you off, you might want to check your blood pressure or something.

          • Ferd Berfle

            And don’t fucking lecture me, dipshit.

      • Scout

        Ok, I’m more lefty than righty, but have you forgotten about William Ayers and the Weatherman?

        • anon

          I don’t condone or in any way sympathize with the violent and illegal actions of the Weathermen. In fairness, let’s remember that they always targeted symbols of authority–not other human beings–taking care to do their damage when no human beings were present. After 24 bombings, the only deaths resulting from their terrorist activities were several of their own.

          The Brinks robbery, in which a guard was killed, did involve 2 former Weather Underground members, but occurred in 1981, several years after the Weather Underground group had disolved. The robbery was the work of RATF and the BLA. It might be argued those were criminal gangs more than political organizations, though their actions were rationalized by way of political ideology.

    • lorac

      My understanding is that she also produced a left-wing portfolio – but the MSM didn’t talk about that one.

  • http://deleted Betsy Buzz Ross Latte

    Oops, the original premise of this thread just got owned by Bill OReilly and his experts on – oh, no! IDEOLOGY. Ideology creates the avenue for violence.

    Seems the left is just as liable as the right…

  • elise

    Larry, IMO there are some problems. First if the designation is used for political purposes, it will automatically impact my rights. If I am a vocal opponent of whatever group happens to be in power, will Homeland Security allow my phone to be tapped or emails intercepted even though my protests are non violent?

    Ted Kazinsky, Terry Nichols, Tim Mcveigh, the abortion clinic bomber, Jose Padilla are all terrorist in my mind, but they are also Americans and entitled to due process. IMO ALL accused of terrorism, whether Americans or not, should be allowed to face their accusers and have access to evidence against them and the public should also be able to see that evidence.

    So I have some questions. Will people charged under the Homeland Security’s blanket definition, be allowed their rights or will the Patriot Act provisions be invoked denying the right to habeas corpus, to be charged within the limits of time provided for by law, be held in prolonged detention without benefit of trial?

    The current system which, superficially anyway, works to due process isn’t enough? Will they bypass the courts and the legal requirements for warrants? In general, even the name Homeland Security evokes Orwellian government and too much of Big Brother.

    • Ferd Berfle

      So I have some questions. Will people charged under the Homeland Security’s blanket definition, be allowed their rights or will the Patriot Act provisions be invoked denying the right to habeas corpus, to be charged within the limits of time provided for by law, be held in prolonged detention without benefit of trial?

      The short answer is yes because That One can’t be bothered with trivial details such as Constitutional rights. He has shown an amazing lack of care for rights of any sort since he voted for the continuation of the FISA Act. He seems more interested in continuing the same path we were under during the previous administration.

  • Seattle Moss

    As a pro choice leader of my catholic I can tell you that half the congregation is Pro Choice for early term abortions.

    However, almost everyone I know believe that late term abortions are wrong.
    Killing 60m human beings in the final stages of development and being denied a birth out of convenience is flat out wrong.

    Those that defend late term abortions have no morals and look like Neo Marxist’s to me.

    As for the doctor… I wonder if he ever thought about the consequences of using vice grips on fully formed babies.

    • Seattle Moss

      As a pro choice leader of my Catholic Church with a congregation of over 4000.

  • Seattle Moss

    So who’s surprised about the rise of republican right wing domestic terrorism..I’m not!

    Very predictable and only the beginning…
    As the anti-Americans continue their fast track to lawlessness and Marxism and as we watch our traditions and heritage being taken away from us, you will see a continued rise of these extreme groups.
    In fact when hyper inflation kicks in the country will be bankrupt and communities and groups will form their own militias to protect their interests.
    Enjoy!

    • Ferd Berfle

      Stop the melodrama, Seattle. You’re more likely to be struck thrice by lightning than ever be killed by a terrorist, Cheney has you spooked. Screw Cheney, Bush and the henchman they brought in–That One. He’s yours for eternity.

      • Seattle Moss

        Ferd,
        I’m just never going to agree with you.
        After what I have seen in Canada and Europe there is no way that I will ever underestimate the power of Islam.
        You keep talking about the malcontent desert dwellers that poise no threat…Agreed!

        My concern is the $700 billion that we give to Arabs every year that actively promote anti Americanism and fund the madrassas.
        When I go to Canada I don’t see these desert dwellers.I see sophisticated muslims with an agenda of Islamic world domination.
        Attacks on this country will be from those that drive mini vans and wear suits.
        I’m not worried about a terrorist attack personally. I live a great life and am a fatalist when it comes to my fate. I’m not scared as you claim I just enjoy predicting the future based on conditions today and what I have learned about history,cultures and human behavior patterns.
        Like a swiss watch the world economy is depends on stability and the concept of worth. If an attack occurs that destroys a city, all real estate values will collapse. Along with that the ability to acquire insurance will also destroyed as no place will be viewed as safe in the world.

        • beebop

          The young recruiter was slaughtered by someone converted to the terrorist faction of Islam … so. They you are.

  • I’m a Linda too

    …about right-wing extremists posing a national security threat, how’s this working for you? Oh, and remember him?

    What?

  • o

    Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller and William Long
    June 1, 2009
    Governor Palin Statement on George Tiller
    “I feel sorrow for the Tiller family. I respect the sanctity of life and the tragedy that took place today in Kansas clearly violates respect for life. This murder also damages the positive message of life, for the unborn, and for those living. Ask yourself, ‘What will those who have not yet decided personally where they stand on this issue take away from today’s event in Kansas?’
    Regardless of my strong objection to Dr. Tiller’s abortion practices, violence is never an answer in advancing the pro-life message.”
    Governor Sarah Palin
    http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news32.aspx

    June 2, 2009
    Governor Palin Statement on William Long
    “The stories of two very different lives with similar fates crossed through the media’s hands yesterday – both equally important but one lacked the proper attention. The death of 67-year old George Tiller was unacceptable, but equally disgusting was another death that police believe was politically and religiously motivated as well.
    William Long died yesterday. The 23-year old Army Recruiter was gunned down by a fanatic; another fellow soldier was wounded in the ambush. The soldiers had just completed their basic training and were talking to potential recruits, just as my son, Track, once did.
    Whatever titles we give these murderers, both deserve our attention. Violence like that is no way to solve a political dispute nor a religious one. And the fanatics on all sides do great disservice when they confuse dissention with rage and death.”
    Governor Sarah Palin
    http://www.sarahpac.com/news/news33.aspx

  • Pingback: Crazies, Assassinations, Hate and Immoral Equivalence (Graphic Content) « The BigotBasher

  • Kbentleyis

    I have never heard O’Reilly promote the death of this doctor. I remember him reporting the news on the doctor’s indictment on late abortions, but never did O’Reilly say anything about killing this man.

    Incidentally, since when can’t a journalist have an opinion on this type of abortion? I think people should stop trying to find someone to blame for this doctor’s death. Frankly, he received more publicity from his indictment than O’Reilly ever gave him!

    • Docelder

      No, I think he reported that protesters called him killer. O’Reilly didn’t call him anything personally, he just reported what others had said. It is a news show and the guy and the controversy was newsworthy.