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More On The Soldier And The Doctor

I saw the post linked below at memeorandum.com, and wanted to share it with you. Before that, though, let me just say that I have absolutely nothing against Muslims, or Islam. Islam, like most other world religions, gets a bad rap from its more fanatical fringe practitioners. The majority of Muslims are not rabid fundamentalists looking to engage in jihad, just as most Christians are not of the Jerry Falwell or Fred Phelps variety. Obviously, those are the people about whom we hear the most because of their actions. But Islam itself is a peaceful religion, just as Christianity is. You wouldn’t know it by some of the “religious faithful,” though – both have extremists whose words and actions in no way, shape, or form match the philosophy of their founders.

That being said, there is no doubt that Private William Long, the Army soldier gunned down outside an Army Recruiting Center (along with Private Quinton I. Ezeagwula, who was wounded), was killed for political and religious reasons by a convert to Islam, who studied jihad in Yemen. To deny that, to gloss over that reality because President Obama was getting ready to go give a speech in Egypt to the Muslim community (and you know that is why), is yet another example of the failure of the Fourth Estate to do its job, instead of acting as the PR arm of Obama’s Administration. It is revisionist history, to be sure, but one that has consequences, not just in Little Rock, AR, but also for those serving our country who expect, no, who are ENTITLED to, better treatment by their country. It dishonors them, their service, us, and this dishonor is being perpetrated by their Commander in Chief. It is reprehensible.

And so, with the caveat above, here is a link to a post from Atlas Shrugs regarding an event at a Remembrance Rally for the fallen Pvt. Long. One of the points made at the other post was the lack of coverage of this event compared to the protesters at Dr. Tiller’s funeral. At least that seemed to garner some national media attention.

I hasten to say, though, I think it is inappropriate for protesters to be at ANYone’s funeral, whether it be Dr. Tiller’s by Operation Rescue-type people, or at Pvt. Long’s by those who think the US is “The Great Satan,” or whatever. Some of you may know that Fred Phelps’ gang, um, I mean, “church,” often stages protests at the funerals of military personnel (you know, supporting a country that supports LGBT people), and at the funerals of gay people (like Matthew Shepard, for example). If you have not seen any comments made by this group, this should give you an idea:

“The first sin was being a part of this military. If this young man had a clue and any fear of God, he would have run, and not walked, from this military,” said protester Shirley Phelps-Roper. “Who would serve a nation that is godless and has flipped off, defiantly defied, defiantly flipped off, the Lord their God?”

And this:

One protester had an American flag tied to his belt that draped to the ground. He was holding a sign that read, “Thank God For IEDs,” which are explosive devices used by insurgents to blow up military convoys.

It only goes down hill from there.

Ironically, there are often veterans there to counter the Phelps’ people, but they know that this is a free country, which means they have to listen to this crap and not lash out in kind.

Oops – sorry for the digression. The point (I’m getting there!) is two-fold: first, the lack of coverage relating to this violent attack by someone who has a HISTORY of violence and “fun with guns” (ahem), who attacked members of our military motivated by religion and politics continues to upset me. There should be more outrage about this, if you ask me, and more concern, especially since Muhammad seems to have larger connections. Maybe the FBI should have been keeping a closer eye on him.

Second, protesting at a memorial remembrance, or anything like that, is inappropriate, in my opinion that is. People are grieving the loss of their loved ones, and especially when they have been taken by violent means, to then have to deal with protesters is just cruel. I am ALL for free speech, a right sacred to us in a democracy, one in which I engage in regularly, and through protests. It is a right that the veterans mentioned as being why they tolerate the hateful comments made at funerals of soldiers by the Phelps “church.” It is why the videographer at the Rally said over and over, “Can you do this in Saudi Arabia?” (as in, can a woman stand on a street in Saudi Arabia and say whatever she wants? I kinda doubt it.).

But I also believe there is a time and place for such protests, and at someone’s funeral, or even their memorial rally, flies in the face of decency and decorum. That concept seems to be sorely lacking these days, but it wouldn’t hurt to get back to it, and I hope we do. Any ol’ day now…

  • Hg

    I agree. Protesting at funerals should be off limits. Especially funerals for men and women who have died in order those protestors might have the right to protest to begin with. In the Middle East where the roots of Islam resides it is against the law to own a Christian Bible. In America where the Islamic are allowed to own and display their Quran and even erect Mosques, in order they may have a place to worship, they, the Islamic sympathizers, should be prohibited from trashing the last rites of an American Patriot in his/her native country.

  • margaret

    I don’t think a religion that mandates mutilation of girls and murder of women can in any way be described as peaceful.

  • arch200

    You are a moron. The Qu’ran does not mandate the female mutilation. That disgusting practice has existed before the birth of Jesus. Islam did not invent it and does not support it.

    And murder? What the hell are you talking about? A murder of a women by a Muslim means Islam itself supports the murder? What a sad piece of logic.

  • joker

    I am one of the Vets on motor cycles who attends funerals for our fallen heros to shield the familys. No one unless you have been there can know how hard it is not to punch one of the church members from Kansas in the mouth…I have never hit or hurt a woman in my life, but they have a lady lawyer that If close enough to me I would have to think about it….

  • Craig Della Penna

    Phelps and his group are despicable. They reflect the extremist viewpoint… but… neither in Islamist countries nor, apparently, here do we see or hear the storms of protests from the presumed ‘vast majority’ of peaceful co-religionists.

    Listen up Muslims and Christians: if you don’t speak up against these fanatics – then the rest of us will assume they’re speaking for you.

  • JozefAL

    So, what about a religion that justifies the mutilation to the infant male body as part of a “covenant” with its deity?
    That’s known as “circumcision” and its a MANDATORY part of Judaism (as well as Islam), yet there’s rarely any condmenation of male genital mutilation.
    Additionally, while FGM’s supporters are no less ridiculous than the millions of AMERICAN parents who resorted to extremes in the 19th and early half of the 20th centuries trying to prevent boys from masturbating. Literally, there were hundreds of various devices (that actually were patented) designed to prevent that very natural behavior, and more than a few would rightly be condemned now as implements of torture–one device, following the harnessing of electricity, produced a form of electroshock therapy (it was affixed to the boy’s penis at bedtime and at the onset of an erection would result in a mild, but very noticeable, shock) while another patent was awarded to a garment that would press the penis flat against the body (usually along a leg or down between the legs) in a manner that was generally not too uncomfortable when flaccid but was incredibly painful when an erection occurred.
    Even today, many American boys are routinely circumcised at the hospital unless the parents expressly prevent it and, until fairly recently, only the mother’s decision mattered, and she would often be swayed into deciding to circumcise by doctors who literally would scare her into thinking her son would be taunted for being “different” by his male peers “at the school gym”. But NO American doctor would ever suggest a similar practice on infant girls for fear of having his license revoked (as well as the ridicule of the medical community).

  • Screw-the-DNC

    Thanks, Joker, for the service you provide to the grieving families and those attempting to attend the service in peace.

    And while I admire your restraint, you have my permission to smack each member of the Phelps family – you can tell them it was from me! ;>

  • arch200

    But they do!

    Here’s one link
    http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

    Christians denounced the murder of Dr. Tiller and any other extremist acts as far as I know.

  • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Thank you so much, Joker. I have seen reports abt the work you, and other vets, do to protect the families. BLESS YOU for doing that.

    And THANK YOU for your service to this country.

    I can only imagine how hard it is NOT to retaliate. That takes a lot of guts, which you clearly have.

    Thank you again – truly.

  • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Craig, I hear ya, and I get your point. But how often have you seen counter-demonstrations by the major denominations in this country against people like Phelps? My point is that the majority of people don’t support this kind of radicalism, here OR in Islamic countries, but the majority don’t usually go out and voice their opposition to them, at least in my experience. I mean, I assume there are mainstream churches in Kansas, but do they make sure they have a big presence when the Phelps’ clan shows up?

    Maybe Joker can answer that question…

  • SN in MN

    Thank God my folks had the sense to have me circumcised.

  • SN in MN

    For a peaceful religion, it sure didn’t take long to conquer half the known world. Islam was spread by the sword. Fanatical violence was there from the very beginning.

  • Portia Elizabeth

    Those protests at the funerals is not only indecent and hypocritical, it’s obscene. Those people have no shame.

  • Portia Elizabeth

    Jozef– you are quite obsessed with your penis. Don’t worry, though. It’s just a phase all children outgrow. Well, most do.

  • Portia Elizabeth

    Joker — thank you for offering such a selfless gesture at the worst of possible times for the families of the fallen. God bless you!

  • Portia Elizabeth

    Oops. Sorry about the bad grammar there. My brain is still numb from trying to watch BO’s cabinet meeting.

  • Ferd Berfle

    Fanatical violence was there from the very beginning.

    You know nothing of the Crusades, huh? Step away from your pedestal, half-wit.

  • Cahil

    Your article is spot on, but sadly if you’re waiting for decency you may have to wait long.

    People who would say and do the things that these protesters say and do have forgotten decency a long time ago.

    They trumpet God as their savior and leader but have no understanding of the priciples of goodness or kindness or brotherly love. Like so many “religious” people, religion is only a convenient way to hate someone else and justify it.

  • arch200

    Muslim forces did not force people to become Muslims (please spare me the semantics. I’m sure there were SOME who were forced). Compulsion is against Islam. That’s why you don’t see Muslims knocking on your front door on Saturday morning asking you to join Qu’ran study.

    Spain was controlled for hundreds of years by Muslims but the majority remained Christians and many Jews found home in Spain. During the Inquisition, Jews and Muslims were forcefully kicked out.

    Indonesia, home of the largest Muslim population, did not see one Muslim soldier. Islam was spread by trade there and other parts of Asia. There is a sizable Muslim population in China that few know about, and last time I checked, Muslim forces did not conquer China.

    I won’t get into the bloody details of the Crusades, where Christian “holy warriors” massacred thousands of Jews and Muslims. Or the Muslim genocide by Christian Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo.

    So is Christianity a religion of peace? It can’t be! But it is. Why? Because there’s a difference between Christians and Christianity itself. And there’s a difference between Muslims and Islam itself.

  • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    PRECISELY the point I was trying to make (and clearly failed), Arch200. It is the PRACTITIONERS of the religion itself who stray from the path. And well said, I might add.

    Muhammad, for instance, had daughters upon whom he doted, and NEVER called for treating women disparately. It was his followers, as well as the followers of Jesus, who came up with that all on their own…

    For Jesus to hang out with women the way he did was unprecedented, to put it MILDLY. In Judaism, at that time, women were not allowed to study Torah, or to even hear what was going on in the service. They sat up in a balcony behind a heavy curtain and talked amongst themselves. And that is why, when Paul told the women to be silent in church, to ask their husbands, brothers, or fathers to explain to them later, he literally meant do not talk in church. But for him to suggest that women should learn Torah was astounding.

    I could go on, but I hope you get the point…

  • Nellie

    It is not the Islamic religion that mandates female circumcision. It is an ancient more – or custom dating back several hundred years.

    Female Circumcision is forbidden as a human rights issue some Islamic countries.

  • Nellie

    Joker what a compassionate and selfless service you perform for those who serve our country. Thank you.

    And I second Screw-the-DNC’s remark above – so swing twice at any of them so I have my “voice heard”.

  • Nellie

    Cahil

    I wholeheartedly agree with your comment.

    Just a bit of info. The word GOD in ye olde English simply meant GOOD or All Good.

    Some of us learned ye olde English while being required to read “Beowulf” in the original written form.

  • arch200

    I got you. Between the two of us, we can give thousands of examples. The problem is society often times does not distinguish between religion and culture. No religion is a monolith.

  • Nellie

    Reverend Amy,

    It appears as if the WH or Eric Holder is deliberately trying to create conflict between Christians, Arab Muslims, Jews and Black Muslims.

    Did you see this “decree” issued by A/G Eric Holder right after William Long was killed?

    http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-18-2009/0004974685&EDATE=

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    thank you Joker.

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    it.s wrong to protest a funeral.

  • helenk

    Joker
    Thank You for your service to the country and especially thank you for your service to these families that have lost loved ones.
    It is hard enough to lose someone and then to have these sickos use the death to promote hate in unbearable.
    You are a better person than I am I do not know if it were one of my family if I could remain peaceful.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • helenk

    The actions that tell me all I need to know about Islam are
    The deliberate placing of bombs in a school in Russia that were placed there ahead of time with malice aforethought. Children died.

    A 13 year old girl gang raped by 3 big islamic men and when she reported it they took her to a stadium put her in a hole and stoned her to death while thousands of good muslims watched.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • joker

    RRR Amy, I am not from Kansas but have been to funerals in MN, SD, WI, and AZ. These crazy people from Kansas showed up in Mesa AZ two year ago in the winter and tried to disrupt a funeral and the people driving by made asses of them with there horns….They went to ND and had a permit but the sheriff had the right to put them in a corral a long ways away from the funeral…My wife listened to me when I would come home from one of these funerals and wonder about the tears, until she went with me to a funeral…When I go to a miltary funeral my bike has the MIA POW flag along with the Stars and Stripes. On my vest a patch says above the flag” Try burning this one asshole”

  • arch200

    So do the Christian Serbs of Bosnia and Kosovo who killed and raped thousands tell me all I need to know about Christianity?

  • helenk

    arch200
    They were wrong as rape is wrong,
    But did thousands sit in a stadium and cheer the death of the victims?
    There is no sense of decency with the actions.

    Did they set bombs weeks ahead of time knowing that children would be the targets?

    I am not saying that Christianity is always right. Most religions do more harm in God’s name then they ever do good.

    Islam is a so-called religion that brings out the worst in people not the best.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • arch200

    That’s your bigoted (I’m sorry to say, but that’s what it is) opinion. There’s really nothing else to say. Debate with people like you is meaningless.

  • Retired

    I lived in Near East Muslim countries for several years and discussed the practice of female genital cutting with many Muslim men native to those countries, both educated and otherwise. While it is true that the Qu’ran does not mandate such cutting, a surprising number of the men that I spoke to believed that it was mandated by Islam in order to keep women faithful to their husbands. My observation was that their conviction on this was inversely proportional to their level of education.
    If one studied the prevalence of female genital cutting statistically, however, one would fairly soon reach the conclusion that it is more of a tradition linked to the African continent, regardless of religious faith, rather than having anything to do with Islam. Like many cultural practices, the practice of female genital cutting seems to have adopted Islam over time as a convenient cover, rather than being the result of a command of the Qu’ran or a hadith.
    The case of female genital mutilation and its alleged relationship to Islam would appear to be just another example of ignorance blinding truth.

  • Retired

    “No religion is a monolith.” Would that more in our government would appreciate that point before they make gneralizations about “The Islamic World.”

  • http://www.dcmediagirl.com DCMediagirl

    Female genital mutilation is a cultural, not a religious, practice, primarily in Africa and Egypt. Not even in extremely conservative Muslim societies (i.e. Afghanistan) do you see this horror perpetrated on its girls.

  • http://www.madinthemiddle.blogspot.com churl

    Ok, Margaret may not be right– but must you call her a “moron?” Other than lowering the discourse, what purpose does insulting anyone serve?

  • http://www.radio-people.com/n/Shirley_Phelps-Roper Shirley Phelps-Roper

    [...] More On The Soldier And The Doctor NO QUARTER – PeopleRank: 28 – June 8, 2009 …Shirley Phelps-Roper. “Who would serve a nation that is godless and has flipped off, defiantly defied, defiantly flipped off, the Lord their God?” And this: One protester had an American flag tied to his belt that draped to the ground. He was holding… Cited people : Atlas Shrugs  Fred Phelp  Fred Phelps  Jerry Falwell  Matthew Shepard  William Long  2 other articles » + vote [...]

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