Comments on: ALTERed State of Unconsciousness http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/ Sun, 27 May 2012 08:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Kay Green http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271971 Kay Green Fri, 23 May 2008 21:45:54 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271971 Oh by the way, do you know the true meaning of "political correctness"? CENSORSHIP of free speech, ideas and the rights of people to communicate their honest opinions and views.People can always be offended by something take it out of context and twist things around and distort things.How many words of Senator Clinton's were taken completely out of context??? Of course this can be done to anyone including senator Obama. Oh by the way, do you know the true meaning of “political correctness”? CENSORSHIP of free speech, ideas and the rights of people to communicate their honest opinions and views.People can always be offended by something take it out of context and twist things around and distort things.How many words of Senator Clinton’s were taken completely out of context??? Of course this can be done to anyone including senator Obama.

]]> By: Kay Green http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271906 Kay Green Fri, 23 May 2008 21:25:56 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271906 Double standards... now we all know if someone makes racial slurs on tv such as the likes of Imus, there is a public outcry , they wanted his head on the platter so to speak . but when it comes to women bashing by the media pundits how does that make it more acceptable, even one of them who was black was going along with it... No out cry, because when Hillary brought the subject up she was ridiculed and attacked by the media.. so much for unbiased and fair reporting.What is strange is some women jumped on board and even said she shouldn't make such statements like she made, but it's ok for Obama and his supporters to cry foul when they perceive white voters as racist? Don't tell me that women are less significant in terms of discriminatory practices compared to blacks, women were not given the right to vote until after blacks were emancipated and given the right. Women have been discriminated against through out history. Thye were once considered the property of man(sound familar) Even today many women are disenfranchised (and yes I will use that term even if it is politically incorrect and people object to it) Weren't given the right to own property , could be legally beaten by their husbands and so on. Women were even burned at the stake for being witches earlier in history. And if you look throughout the world women still don't have rights, look at Saudi Arabia, And other countries, the Chinese even buried their female children because they wanted male offspring, heinous acts have been committed against women throughout time as well.Rape, torture among those.In Saudi Arabia, a 11 year old girl was condemned to death when she was raped by her brother's friends.Domestic violence and assaults on women are a problem here in the US, go to a woman's shelter and they even have waiting lists.Women and young girls are even sold into prostitution in countries like Thailand, and other countries. Women were killed or beaten for not being covered completely head to toe by the Taliban.So it is ok to minimize this , and Hillary is just stirring up trouble when she speaks up about how political pundits are acting like immature children and picking a woman apart. One said ,"She reminds me of a nagging wife "You might want to think about he might treat he the way. Someone also on this forum remarked about how Obama introduced his wife and children , by saying" Don't you think I have a good looking wife and kids?" A arm ornament by the way, being defined in terms of how she looks? Yeesh. Double standards… now we all know if someone makes racial slurs on tv such as the likes of Imus, there is a public outcry , they wanted his head on the platter so to speak . but when it comes to women bashing by the media pundits how does that make it more acceptable, even one of them who was black was going along with it… No out cry, because when Hillary brought the subject up she was ridiculed and attacked by the media.. so much for unbiased and fair reporting.What is strange is some women jumped on board and even said she shouldn’t make such statements like she made, but it’s ok for Obama and his supporters to cry foul when they perceive white voters as racist? Don’t tell me that women are less significant in terms of discriminatory practices compared to blacks, women were not given the right to vote until after blacks were emancipated and given the right. Women have been discriminated against through out history. Thye were once considered the property of man(sound familar) Even today many women are disenfranchised (and yes I will use that term even if it is politically incorrect and people object to it) Weren’t given the right to own property , could be legally beaten by their husbands and so on. Women were even burned at the stake for being witches earlier in history. And if you look throughout the world women still don’t have rights, look at Saudi Arabia, And other countries, the Chinese even buried their female children because they wanted male offspring, heinous acts have been committed against women throughout time as well.Rape, torture among those.In Saudi Arabia, a 11 year old girl was condemned to death when she was raped by her brother’s friends.Domestic violence and assaults on women are a problem here in the US, go to a woman’s shelter and they even have waiting lists.Women and young girls are even sold into prostitution in countries like Thailand, and other countries. Women were killed or beaten for not being covered completely head to toe by the Taliban.So it is ok to minimize this , and Hillary is just stirring up trouble when she speaks up about how political pundits are acting like immature children and picking a woman apart. One said ,”She reminds me of a nagging wife “You might want to think about he might treat he the way.

Someone also on this forum remarked about how Obama introduced his wife and children , by saying” Don’t you think I have a good looking wife and kids?” A arm ornament by the way, being defined in terms of how she looks? Yeesh.

]]> By: Uppity Woman http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271835 Uppity Woman Fri, 23 May 2008 20:58:03 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271835 You are wrong on what holds water. What holds water are DNC rules and the Law. While it has been shown that the courts will not override DNC rules, the issue of equal treatment is definitely a legal issue. The Law is going to have no problem comprehending Equal Treatment for All States. This has nothing to do with senators or big shots who agreed, didn't agree or anything in between. It has more to do with Democracy and the right of every state to be treated equally. The fact is, three states were given waivers and two were punished. The two that were punished now have a strong case to show that they were arbitrariy not given Equal Treatment. That's where the courts rightfully have jurisdiction. Now, either those three states that were given waivers have their delegates and vote counts removed--or Florida and Michigan have theirs seated. You are wrong on what holds water. What holds water are DNC rules and the Law. While it has been shown that the courts will not override DNC rules, the issue of equal treatment is definitely a legal issue. The Law is going to have no problem comprehending Equal Treatment for All States. This has nothing to do with senators or big shots who agreed, didn’t agree or anything in between. It has more to do with Democracy and the right of every state to be treated equally. The fact is, three states were given waivers and two were punished. The two that were punished now have a strong case to show that they were arbitrariy not given Equal Treatment. That’s where the courts rightfully have jurisdiction. Now, either those three states that were given waivers have their delegates and vote counts removed–or Florida and Michigan have theirs seated.

]]> By: Kay Green http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271793 Kay Green Fri, 23 May 2008 20:45:33 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271793 Also consider this.. Many blacks are among the working poor,it is estimated that a million black children live in poverty, and there are also the white working poor and other minorities follow suite,low wages , lack of medical care, poor education, or lack of quality education, high college tuition makes the dream for many poor and middle class Americans unable to obtain this dream for their children. I've listened to people's stories... take the high cost of gasoline and diesel fuels, truckers have making a living because of these price hikes, they are the ones who transport good across the country. A couple who were both disabled could no longer afford to pay their rent were evicted, a man who lost a well paying job in the field of technology, lost his home , became homeless and his children are living with his in-laws, our vets are not getting the care and benefits they need, the list goes on.Hillary signed a bill just recently to get more help for our troops who are suffering from brain injury. Also consider this.. Many blacks are among the working poor,it is estimated that a million black children live in poverty, and there are also the white working poor and other minorities follow suite,low wages , lack of medical care, poor education, or lack of quality education, high college tuition makes the dream for many poor and middle class Americans unable to obtain this dream for their children. I’ve listened to people’s stories… take the high cost of gasoline and diesel fuels, truckers have making a living because of these price hikes, they are the ones who transport good across the country. A couple who were both disabled could no longer afford to pay their rent were evicted, a man who lost a well paying job in the field of technology, lost his home , became homeless and his children are living with his in-laws, our vets are not getting the care and benefits they need, the list goes on.Hillary signed a bill just recently to get more help for our troops who are suffering from brain injury.

]]> By: luke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271779 luke Fri, 23 May 2008 20:41:24 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271779 <blockquote>Kay Green said, "If the presidential race was just about racial issues , doesn’t that seem to be out of sync with reality when we are dealing with so many issues and concerns today, that to just focus on one thing is ignoring the greater concerns of ALL Americans?"</blockquote> No rational person disputes this. No rational person (that I'm aware of) thinks this election is just about 'race issues'. Instead it's about the economy, about Iraq and the greater Middle East, about energy policy, national security - all that good stuff worth getting passionate about. Not to get into parsing 'he said she said' arguments, but I'm supporting Obama precisely <em>because </em>I believe now that he'll be much better than Clinton on those issues. "Race" is a red herring here. Believe me, this position was slow in coming, and painful too; I had been a very enthusiastic fan of both the Clintons.

Kay Green said, “If the presidential race was just about racial issues , doesn’t that seem to be out of sync with reality when we are dealing with so many issues and concerns today, that to just focus on one thing is ignoring the greater concerns of ALL Americans?”

No rational person disputes this. No rational person (that I’m aware of) thinks this election is just about ‘race issues’. Instead it’s about the economy, about Iraq and the greater Middle East, about energy policy, national security – all that good stuff worth getting passionate about.

Not to get into parsing ‘he said she said’ arguments, but I’m supporting Obama precisely because I believe now that he’ll be much better than Clinton on those issues. “Race” is a red herring here.

Believe me, this position was slow in coming, and painful too; I had been a very enthusiastic fan of both the Clintons.

]]> By: luke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271719 luke Fri, 23 May 2008 20:16:50 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271719 <blockquote> Kay Green said "I can now respond if you think my vote for a white candidate who I think is more qualified makes me a racist and that I hate blacks you are way off track..." </blockquote> I really don't think I implied this at all, nor do I think it. Did I write something to give that impression? My apologies if so. What's great about BOTH these candidates is that neither - as far as I can tell and inflamed rhetoric aside - is being hindered much by their gender or race. If anything it raises the excitement about both of them. Sure there are niche groups and regions at either end but on balance it helps them both (I think). Which is great since Hillary can't help being white, and Barack can't help being male... (ok, lame joke there). Anyone on either side who spends energy on the "woe is us, our candidate is discriminated against because he/she is woman/black!" is wasting time and energy. Not to dismiss areas where there ARE issues, I just don't think it's a card worth playing for either side. OK, to be more precise, there are some assholes who dismiss Hillary because she's a woman, and there are some areas that will never vote for a black person. Come November, one group or the other will have to deal with it.

Kay Green said “I can now respond if you think my vote for a white candidate who I think is more qualified makes me a racist and that I hate blacks you are way off track…”

I really don’t think I implied this at all, nor do I think it. Did I write something to give that impression? My apologies if so.

What’s great about BOTH these candidates is that neither – as far as I can tell and inflamed rhetoric aside – is being hindered much by their gender or race. If anything it raises the excitement about both of them. Sure there are niche groups and regions at either end but on balance it helps them both (I think). Which is great since Hillary can’t help being white, and Barack can’t help being male… (ok, lame joke there).

Anyone on either side who spends energy on the “woe is us, our candidate is discriminated against because he/she is woman/black!” is wasting time and energy. Not to dismiss areas where there ARE issues, I just don’t think it’s a card worth playing for either side.

OK, to be more precise, there are some assholes who dismiss Hillary because she’s a woman, and there are some areas that will never vote for a black person.

Come November, one group or the other will have to deal with it.

]]> By: Kay Green http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271670 Kay Green Fri, 23 May 2008 20:00:15 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271670 Also let's look at some of the issues with some emotional maturity and clarity shall we? People who support Hillary basically are concerned with job loss, the economy, the deficit,medical care, losing their homes, outsourcing of jobs overseas, corruption in the government, education, and many other things. Is there a legitimate concern about racial inequality,yes, but this also applies to women and other minorities as well. Do blacks have legitimate concerns, absolutely! They want a fair shake and say in the system and society we live in too ,and yes in many ways they feel like many of the blue collared workers and middle class Americans , the poor and disabled the vets, the elderly do ...that we are left out of the system or I should say locked out due to a system that too often gives preferential treatment to those who have money and power and status and of course to special interests and lobbyists,big business interests, and have kicked the average American to the curb. People cannot live if they are unemployed, if their jobs are outsourced, people can't live if the cost of living is out of range with how they are able to live and survive. Medical care and insurance has skyrocketed, people are not only being taxed to death, but since banking deregulation, people have been given the shaft because now banks and credit card companies can stick you with 35% interest rate even if your credit is good and you've paid bills on time. There is no longer job security, Workers rights have been eroded,aand because of the war in Iraq , we have a deficit that is astronomical.If people can barely afford to put food on the table, or work three jobs to stay afloat, or have other issues and concerns, do you honestly think they are sitting around thinking about how they can get rid of Obama because he is black? Or do they have concern as to what he will do if he is president , whether he will create more division, and not be experienced enough to handle our current multiple crisis's. If the presidential race was just about racial issues , doesn't that seem to be out of sync with reality when we are dealing with so many issues and concerns today, that to just focus on one thing is ignoring the greater concerns of ALL Americans? Also let’s look at some of the issues with some emotional maturity and clarity shall we?
People who support Hillary basically are concerned with job loss, the economy, the deficit,medical care, losing their homes, outsourcing of jobs overseas, corruption in the government, education, and many other things.

Is there a legitimate concern about racial inequality,yes, but this also applies to women and other minorities as well. Do blacks have legitimate concerns, absolutely! They want a fair shake and say in the system and society we live in too ,and yes in many ways they feel like many of the blue collared workers and middle class Americans , the poor and disabled the vets, the elderly do …that we are left out of the system or I should say locked out due to a system that too often gives preferential treatment to those who have money and power and status and of course to special interests and lobbyists,big business interests, and have kicked the average American to the curb.

People cannot live if they are unemployed, if their jobs are outsourced, people can’t live if the cost of living is out of range with how they are able to live and survive. Medical care and insurance has skyrocketed, people are not only being taxed to death, but since banking deregulation, people have been given the shaft because now banks and credit card companies can stick you with 35% interest rate even if your credit is good and you’ve paid bills on time. There is no longer job security, Workers rights have been eroded,aand because of the war in Iraq , we have a deficit that is astronomical.If people can barely afford to put food on the table, or work three jobs to stay afloat, or have other issues and concerns, do you honestly think they are sitting around thinking about how they can get rid of Obama because he is black? Or do they have concern as to what he will do if he is president , whether he will create more division, and not be experienced enough to handle our current multiple crisis’s. If the presidential race was just about racial issues , doesn’t that seem to be out of sync with reality when we are dealing with so many issues and concerns today, that to just focus on one thing is ignoring the greater concerns of ALL Americans?

]]> By: Mike Howell http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271567 Mike Howell Fri, 23 May 2008 19:36:59 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271567 <strong>Jonathan Alter. Any grown man, much less one allegedly in journalism, who goes by Jonathan instead of a nickname or Jon or John is a putz. In the real world he'd get his ass kicked. At a minimum it shows that he has no friends. Was he named after a damn seagull? Why would anyone give a shit what someone still going by Jonathan has to say or do? Listen to real people folks!</strong> Jonathan Alter. Any grown man, much less one allegedly in journalism, who goes by Jonathan instead of a nickname or Jon or John is a putz.

In the real world he’d get his ass kicked. At a minimum it shows that he has no friends.

Was he named after a damn seagull?

Why would anyone give a shit what someone still going by Jonathan has to say or do? Listen to real people folks!

]]> By: Kay Green http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271527 Kay Green Fri, 23 May 2008 19:27:19 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-271527 " I liked Hillary - I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I’ve since switched my support to Obama (no, I don’t think he’s “king”), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole “cultist”, “kool-aid, etc language is way off. I’m no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing “the other guy” makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you." Ok I can now respond if you think my vote for a white candidate who I think is more qualified makes me a racist and that I hate blacks you are way off track. I will not vote for a democratic nominee just because it is politically correct to,many people raise concerns about his anti-American sentiments. Using the race card to try to intimidate voters to vote for a black candidate is not a good reason for voting for him.There are many things I don't agree with in terms of Our current state of affairs or what Bush is doing does that make me hate my country no, but I know we can do a lot better and need to learn from our past mistakes. I am racist if I don't vote for Obama doesn't hold water, I had considered him myself, but when you throw the race card in and accuse those who support white candidates as racist, perhaps you could see how it would likely backfire. What if I said if you don't vote for Hillary you are a misogynist, woman hater. Or if you are black and only vote for Obama based on the color of his skin you could very well be accused of racism as well. This race things is dividing the country.It has created a big wedge with the democratic voters.No one can coerce me into voting for someone period, I want to know where they stand on issues, will they best represent the interests of our country or are they just going to create more divisiveness.Sorry if I am not politically correct here, but I am really not worried ,people can interpret things I say however they want to, and I certainly don't need approval from the Obama camp to feel ok about myself as a person, get it? Think about this, would you vote for someone because of some superficial . external quality like being blue-eyed or blond hair?Isn't that a duuuhhhh obvious one?Hey maybe I should just vote for Obama because he wears nice suits or is a great speech maker... But can he be the best person to represent our country? Another thing I support your freedom to choose the candidate you want to vote for , even though it may not be my choice,I'm not saying anything like for you to join with the Hillary side... but don't infringe upon my right to vote for the candidate I want to. Nor will I strong arm you and say if you don't come to my side and way of looking at things that you must be destroying the democratic party. ” I liked Hillary – I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I’ve since switched my support to Obama (no, I don’t think he’s “king”), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole “cultist”, “kool-aid, etc language is way off. I’m no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing “the other guy” makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you.”
Ok I can now respond if you think my vote for a white candidate who I think is more qualified makes me a racist and that I hate blacks you are way off track. I will not vote for a democratic nominee just because it is politically correct to,many people raise concerns about his anti-American sentiments. Using the race card to try to intimidate voters to vote for a black candidate is not a good reason for voting for him.There are many things I don’t agree with in terms of Our current state of affairs or what Bush is doing does that make me hate my country no, but I know we can do a lot better and need to learn from our past mistakes. I am racist if I don’t vote for Obama doesn’t hold water, I had considered him myself, but when you throw the race card in and accuse those who support white candidates as racist, perhaps you could see how it would likely backfire. What if I said if you don’t vote for Hillary you are a misogynist, woman hater. Or if you are black and only vote for Obama based on the color of his skin you could very well be accused of racism as well. This race things is dividing the country.It has created a big wedge with the democratic voters.No one can coerce me into voting for someone period, I want to know where they stand on issues, will they best represent the interests of our country or are they just going to create more divisiveness.Sorry if I am not politically correct here, but I am really not worried ,people can interpret things I say however they want to, and I certainly don’t need approval from the Obama camp to feel ok about myself as a person, get it? Think about this, would you vote for someone because of some superficial . external quality like being blue-eyed or blond hair?Isn’t that a duuuhhhh obvious one?Hey maybe I should just vote for Obama because he wears nice suits or is a great speech maker… But can he be the best person to represent our country?

Another thing I support your freedom to choose the candidate you want to vote for , even though it may not be my choice,I’m not saying anything like for you to join with the Hillary side… but don’t infringe upon my right to vote for the candidate I want to. Nor will I strong arm you and say if you don’t come to my side and way of looking at things that you must be destroying the democratic party.

]]> By: verminme http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270943 verminme Fri, 23 May 2008 16:30:08 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270943 How many times have I heard Obama describe during his standard, unchanging stump speech how he "upset" the Detroit auto workers by telling them the "hard truth" that the reason they weren't selling cars wasn't NAFTA but that their product was crap. "they weren't too happy.. heh heh".. Could have been a good reason to pull off the MI ballot. How many times have I heard Obama describe during his standard, unchanging stump speech how he “upset” the Detroit auto workers by telling them the “hard truth” that the reason they weren’t selling cars wasn’t NAFTA but that their product was crap. “they weren’t too happy.. heh heh”.. Could have been a good reason to pull off the MI ballot.

]]> By: Quickies « Semidi http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270901 Quickies « Semidi Fri, 23 May 2008 16:17:29 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270901 [...] I see Jonathan Alter is now a moron. [...] [...] I see Jonathan Alter is now a moron. [...]

]]> By: orionATL http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270632 orionATL Fri, 23 May 2008 14:18:11 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270632 would you like some reliable numbers on the democratic primary totals? go to http://www.diversityj.com/ElectionResults2008Primary.html senator clinton is ahead in the popular vote by about 150,000 votes. she should add to that total in the upcoming primary in puerto rico. j. alter is a corporate media journalist. these journalist have no obligation to describe reality when they write or speak. their editors and publishers allow and encourage them to practice fantasy journalism. and they do. would you like some reliable numbers on the democratic primary totals?

go to

http://www.diversityj.com/ElectionResults2008Primary.html

senator clinton is ahead in the popular vote by about 150,000 votes. she should add to that total in the upcoming primary in puerto rico.

j. alter is a corporate media journalist. these journalist have no obligation to describe reality when they write or speak.

their editors and publishers allow and encourage them to practice fantasy journalism.

and they do.

]]> By: luke http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270349 luke Fri, 23 May 2008 12:20:38 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270349 I have a lot of respect for this site, so please respect that I disagree with this attitude. I liked Hillary - I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I've since switched my support to Obama (no, I don't think he's "king"), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole "cultist", "kool-aid, etc language is way off. I'm no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing "the other guy" makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you. On the counts, these arguments just don't hold water and I'm surprised that normally very smart people like you repeat them. Whether we like them or not everybody - including Hillary - agreed to them ahead of time and making up exceptions midstream ("caucuses don't count", "MI voters deserved to be heard") doesn't fly in a rational process. Of *course* all voters deserve to be heard, but what's a fair method? Simply applying the counts as-is doesn't work because they weren't both on the ballot (you can't really know what the voters are saying, which IS what you want, right?). And granted caucuses are screwy - but they've been used for years and suddenly she's making the case they shouldn't be counted, just for her? On what planet does that makes sense? Here's the acid test: if Obama gets the nomination will you sit out the election or vote for McCain? If the answer is "yes" then your thinking has gone off the deep end. For myself, if Hillary manages to manipulate the process and snag the nomination, I would be angry and disappointed - but I'd vote for her in the general. I have a lot of respect for this site, so please respect that I disagree with this attitude.

I liked Hillary – I voted for her in the CA primary and was happy that she won, and feel pretty clear about the pros and cons of both of them. But I’ve since switched my support to Obama (no, I don’t think he’s “king”), for many of the reasons stated (and derided) here. However, I really think that whole “cultist”, “kool-aid, etc language is way off. I’m no cultist, nor do I hate women btw. If my choosing “the other guy” makes you think that then perhaps you need to take some deep breathes and walk around for a bit. It is possible for people to prefer Obama and not be out to destroy you.

On the counts, these arguments just don’t hold water and I’m surprised that normally very smart people like you repeat them. Whether we like them or not everybody – including Hillary – agreed to them ahead of time and making up exceptions midstream (“caucuses don’t count”, “MI voters deserved to be heard”) doesn’t fly in a rational process. Of *course* all voters deserve to be heard, but what’s a fair method? Simply applying the counts as-is doesn’t work because they weren’t both on the ballot (you can’t really know what the voters are saying, which IS what you want, right?). And granted caucuses are screwy – but they’ve been used for years and suddenly she’s making the case they shouldn’t be counted, just for her? On what planet does that makes sense?

Here’s the acid test: if Obama gets the nomination will you sit out the election or vote for McCain? If the answer is “yes” then your thinking has gone off the deep end. For myself, if Hillary manages to manipulate the process and snag the nomination, I would be angry and disappointed – but I’d vote for her in the general.

]]> By: Peg http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270287 Peg Fri, 23 May 2008 11:45:23 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270287 I canceled my subscription to Newsweek after Hillary won in New Hampshire, and the Newsweek cover was a photo of Obama with articles about why he won. And particularly because of the Alter piece explaining why us leading edge baby boomers like the Clintons should step aside, and let the young Obama followers and fainters take over the party. (Does not apply to younger bbs, like Alter.) And while the message was making its way through the subscription maze, Anna Quinlen, whom I love dearly, could not find the courage to tell him where to shove it. I hoped they were inundated with cancellations. I canceled my subscription to Newsweek after Hillary won in New Hampshire, and the Newsweek cover was a photo of Obama with articles about why he won.

And particularly because of the Alter piece explaining why us leading edge baby boomers like the Clintons should step aside, and let the young Obama followers and fainters take over the party. (Does not apply to younger bbs, like Alter.)

And while the message was making its way through the subscription maze, Anna Quinlen, whom I love dearly, could not find the courage to tell him where to shove it.

I hoped they were inundated with cancellations.

]]> By: PaganPower http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2656/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270224 PaganPower Fri, 23 May 2008 11:13:58 +0000 http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/22/altered-state-of-unconsciousness/#comment-270224 What does any of what you have quoted have to do with the fact that Hillary attempted to get revotes in both states and Obama blocked those efforts? The facts PROVE that Obama supports disenfranchising 2.3 million American voters. What does any of what you have quoted have to do with the fact that Hillary attempted to get revotes in both states and Obama blocked those efforts?

The facts PROVE that Obama supports disenfranchising 2.3 million American voters.

]]>