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Honduras Tells Chavez and Obama to Butt Out

By now most of you have heard of the “coup” in Honduras. The media, ever ignorant, is going with the story line that the military has ousted a democratic leader. Here’s the AP view:

Police and soldiers clashed with thousands of protesters outside Honduras’ national palace Monday as world leaders from Barack Obama to Hugo Chavez demanded the return of a president ousted in a military coup.

Leftist leaders pulled their ambassadors from Honduras and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez called for Hondurans to rise up against those who toppled his ally, Manuel Zelaya.

“We’re ready to support the rebellion of the Honduran people,” Chavez said, though he did not say what kind of support he was offering.

But there is a lot more to this story then most of the press is reporting.

For starters the ousted President, Zelaya, had become close buddies with Chavez of Venezuela and was pushing to over turn the Honduran Constitution that limited Presidents to one term. This was not your typical military coup. This had the backing of the legislature and the judiciary. But Zelaya is doing a good job of playing the victim and we have seen a decided leftward tilt throughout Central and South America. Besides Chavez you have the leaders in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Bolivia with bona fide ties to the radical left.

This was an ultimate fuck you to the United States by the Hondurans. They did not look to the United States for protection or advice. They acted on their own. In the past the United States has had success working behind the scenes to keep the military out of government. It is now clear that the Honduran power structure does not care what Washington thinks and is going to protect itself from falling under the influence of Venezuela’s Chavez.

The irony here is that the President Zelaya was trying to thwart the law in Honduras and was seeking a Chavez type solution, and yet he is now playing the victim with some success. The WSJ Online adds this snippet:

That Mr. Zelaya acted as if he were above the law, there is no doubt. While Honduran law allows for a constitutional rewrite, the power to open that door does not lie with the president. A constituent assembly can only be called through a national referendum approved by its Congress.

But Mr. Zelaya declared the vote on his own and had Mr. Chávez ship him the necessary ballots from Venezuela. The Supreme Court ruled his referendum unconstitutional, and it instructed the military not to carry out the logistics of the vote as it normally would do.

The top military commander, Gen. Romeo Vásquez Velásquez, told the president that he would have to comply. Mr. Zelaya promptly fired him. The Supreme Court ordered him reinstated. Mr. Zelaya refused.

Calculating that some critical mass of Hondurans would take his side, the president decided he would run the referendum himself. So on Thursday he led a mob that broke into the military installation where the ballots from Venezuela were being stored and then had his supporters distribute them in defiance of the Supreme Court’s order.

The attorney general had already made clear that the referendum was illegal, and he further announced that he would prosecute anyone involved in carrying it out. Yesterday, Mr. Zelaya was arrested by the military and is now in exile in Costa Rica.

What should the US do? I think Hillary’s cautious comments (in contrast to pretty harsh comments last night) this afternoon strike the right tone in contrast to Barack’s condemnation of the Hondurans. Although we normally want to discourage military intervention in politics this time it was justified. The Honduran President decided to usurp the Honduran Constitution. It is important to note that the However, the military move was not motivated by a desire to protect a parochial military issue. A majority of the legislature and the judiciary back what the military did.

The U.S. needs to get engaged. If we let the gang led by Chavez, Castro, Ortega take the lead then we are ceding the people of Honduras to the thuggery of Venezuela’s Chavez.

Here’s my full disclosure. I was the Honduran analyst at the CIA from 1986 thru 1989. I also lived in Honduras running a community development in the campo back in 1978. Honduras is not Guatemala, where you had a government that embarked on a policy of exterminating the Mayan culture. In Honduras the military has been one of the middle class roads for upward mobility. The Honduran military is not a tool of some landed elite. Their intervention sends a pretty strong message that they are not going to sit by idly and let their nation go the way of Venezuela.

  • Tommy

    The Hondurans sound quite sensible, here. They can do it themselves.

  • jwrjr

    Zelaya wants to stay in power the “Chicago” way. Naturally Ozero loves that. In fact, look for it any time Ozero looks like he will lose power.

    • oowawa

      The current big font headline on Drudge:

      OBAMA LASHES OUT AT HONDURAS; SIDES WITH CHAVEZ, CASTRO

      • TeakWoodKite

        It must be Ayers playing the part of BO’s Great Gazoo.

        “I just received a cable ‘spatch from my ancestral home. It tells me I’m the great Gazoo, successor to the throne.

        BO is a Dum Dum.

        Reading Clinton between the lines.

      • Doc99

        Ozero Bashes Friends, Engages Enemies.

  • Texas Playwright

    Thanks, Larry. We the People need real news from those who know real news. MSM is dead to me; blogs like yours are alive.

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    the president should obey the constitution.this one didn’t.

    • politicalidentitycrisis

      Ours didn’t either. I wonder if someday someone will drag him out of office. I guess here in America we’re too civilized for that, we’d rather lose all of our values and morals and rights instead of offend a usurper. Bummer. Maybe I should consider a move to Honduras. They value their constitution.

      I hope to see you all at the tea party on July 4th!

      • tzada

        Here is someone who is taking the current administration to task. Don’t forget to send those tea bags. This video is well worth watching

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

      • James Guglielmino

        DUDE….If we tolerated the egregious violations of the shrub White House, how in the world would you expect there to be any pressure to remove the next guy who shrub makes look like George Washington, so far?

        • viking

          James G., you don’t know American history in any meaningful way as evidenced by that comment. Read up on George Washington: his personal history; the reluctant but principled Commander in Chief, and ultimately; the great patriot who, when it was the least of his hope and desire to do so, served as this great nation’s first President because of duty and necessity.

          It is categorically incorrect to group George Washington and BO. There is no there, there. Not even a little bit, putting it kindly.

          • kgirl

            well said and very kind. I wish i had your tolerence. I see people with their heads up their butts and am far too inclined to tell them so. Sure each man is entitiled to their opinion, but when you have individuals who have just screwed over our country and brag about it, I am over come with the urge to tell them to go screw themselves. Being able to read a teleprompter doesn’t make you George Washington it just makes you two IQ points smarter than George W. Bush, and the person who voted for you a fool.

  • John Smith

    I thought he was removed because he did not comply with the court order to stop the vote since it was declared unconstitutional.

    The BO team is just afraid that this might end up happening to them.

    • tminu

      The military hates Ozero and he knows it.
      He even disallowed ceremonial scabbards from Annapolis graduation uniforms, breaking over a hundred years of tradition.
      What’d he think one was gonna run him through? LOL

    • James Guglielmino

      Well, again….since no one seriously discussed removing shrub over his ignoring court decisions, votes of Congress OR the Constitution, for that matter, why would Obama be in the least concerned? Just wondering.

  • jbjd

    LJ, thank you so much for weighing in on this situation, at this time. (I was going to write you a note, asking for your take on this action.) While I do not necessarily agree with what you say, I trust that you are saying what you believe to be true. At least in this situation, I can avoid looking up the Honduran Constitution, and trying to interpret for myself what happened, cold.

  • Carol W

    Larry, what does this mean?

    “”When Clinton was asked directly if the U.S. was insisting on Zelaya’s return to power, she said: “We haven’t laid out any demands that we’re insisting on because we’re working with others on behalf of our ultimate objectives, which are shared broadly.”"

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Obama-denounces-coup-in-Honduras-sides-with-ousted-Zelaya-49462192.html

    What is the Obama Whitehouse ‘ultimate objective’???
    I can’t find the full statement.

    • Ashy1

      Carol W.: Thank you for the link. I think the following quote attributed to Obama is “rich”.

      “What’s ultimately most important is that the people feel a sense of legitimacy and ownership, and that this is not something imposed on them from the top, that it does not involve manipulations of the electorate or, you know, rigging of the electoral process or repression of opposition voices,” Obama said Monday.

      I do not follow Honduran politics enough to add anything, however, I am also wondering “What is the Obama Whitehouse ‘ultimate objective’??? [which are shared broadly.]” …and shared by whom?

  • I’m a Linda too

    But there is a lot more to this story then most of the press is reporting.”
    . NO-I say! :)

    Great post Larry, thank you.

    Yeah, I couldn’t understand why they were all in a tizzy over the people throwing out the guy who just vowed he would trample on their Constitution even though they said NO.

    Of course I understand about the military being involved, but I think it was more the Dictators getting scared that the people actually rise up to their ruling.

    Lets not forget, besides Cuba’a rule, Chavez, but now Democrats put forward a bill this year to remove term limits on the presidency as well. Sadly most voters are not paying attention.

  • Lily

    Zelaya was thwarting the law? I can’t imagine what made him think he could get away with that. I know we would never stand for it in this country if the US President and/or Vice-President tried to thwart the law. Power to the people!

    • politicalidentitycrisis

      We wouldn’t? It seems like we have.

  • Cindy

    Good post, Larry….appreciate your insight.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Mr. Johnson ,as I have been away and barely able to stay up with the “headlines”, I always like to double check what I am hearing on the am band for the ride home.

    Thanks for addressing this.
    There one more “ton of stuff” to understand about this. Yet to listen to the middle and left side of the Echo Chamber what I have heard is very surreal.

    1)I read;

    Today’s events originate from a court order by a competent judge. The armed forces, in charge of supporting the constitution, acted to defend the state of law and have been forced to apply legal dispositions against those who have expressed themselves publicly and acted against the dispositions of the basic law,” the country’s highest court said.

    2)

    That Mr. Zelaya acted as if he were above the law, there is no doubt. While Honduran law allows for a constitutional rewrite, the power to open that door does not lie with the president. A constituent assembly can only be called through a national referendum approved by its Congress.

    .
    3) Obama says;

    “It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition, rather than democratic elections,” Obama said, noting the region’s progress in establishing democratic traditions in the past 20 years.

    .

    Did not the Honduran congress and Sepreme court carry out thier constituional obligations?
    Why does BO have the balls to say this? Does he not relize that this country has similar mechanisms to remove a tryant?
    Frankly I am confused after reading what NomNomNom had posted about the OSA charter.

    • NomNomNom

      the Honduran Constitution was written by the military junta that ran the country just prior to the election of Cordova. it more or less keeps the decision making about constitutionality under the control of the military.

      • Jack

        That sounds like Turkey.

        Though these Honduras articles are stating its own Supreme Court is making these constitutional interpretations, not some military council.

        • NomNomNom

          No suggesting anything so formal. The reason there is one term is to limit the influence of the president. This was to prevent military puppet regimes that went on and on: it certainly started out as a very good thing, and may be a good thing still.
          Honduran government = executive + legislative + judiciary (& local etc); with 1 term the executive branch normally maintains its authority by its role in appointing the military. But in Zelaya’s case– he was elected by the conservatives but then turned lefty in his economic policy– the legislature and military no longer want him in charge.
          The judiciary is historically weak: it does what the military and rich people want. The military is semi-autonomous. The whole government suffers from corruption.
          btw, I’m not suggesting that Zelaya is in the right: the Congress certainly has the authority to remove him: but not by a military backed, let alone instigated, coup. This is at the very least a violation of their international treaties. Also, exile has not been in play there as a solution in a long time: it’s not good to see a return to it. My concern is solely in seeing another military run government, and a great fear we have a hand in it. The stronger the lefty democracies get the more our influence wanes. And it sure wouldn’t be the first time.

          • TeakWoodKite

            So if the Surpreme Court of Honduras tells the the president to pack sand and he doesn’t then he is above the law, no?

            Irrespective of the Miltary’s response what would you think is the correct response?

            In my view BO is sucking eggs while the Honduran military did not want to be under the yoke of Chavez running ops in thier country.

            Ya think?

            • NomNomNom

              if I were set on the idea that the poll is a bad thing (and I’m personally of no opinion on this), I’d have arrested him via the police which is no longer part of the military, put him in jail and started proceedings to try him for treason: there’s a provision in the Constitution that says trying to f#ck with the Constitution is treason.
              I’d have told the US, who is the prime source of aid, including military aid to Honduras, and highly involved in the training of their military what I meant to do, and that the Honduran position was non-negotiable from the start.
              I’d convene the member nations of the OAS (which includes the US) and attempt to get them to sign off on removing him prior to the end of his term and replaced with Micheletti in an official rather than acting capacity.
              To me the problem with the poll isn’t the content of the poll, but the fact that it’s being held within 6 mths of the election which, in addition to being illegal that close to an election may well not be enough time to inform everyone sufficiently about the effects of a National Constituent Assembly which would have the power to review and change the Constitution.
              That a majority of the government doesn’t back the poll doesn’t matter to me, because a majority of the people might want it: if they do, and I of course have no idea, then I don’t have a problem with their having one.

            • NomNomNom

              part 2:
              that the military came and arrested him instead with police outside as well, is highly disturbing to me.
              also, Zelaya was not the only one arrested: some of the others whereabouts are unknown such as Cesar Ham (initially reported killed, but later said to be either arrested or in hiding) and additionally arrested some of his supporters, such as Foreign minister Patricia Rodas. Where are they?
              Also arrested were the Venezuelan, Nicaraguan and Cuban ambassadors. WTF?
              Add to this the allegedly Constitutionally mandated military backed Micheletti made false statements to the entire population of Honduras that Zelaya had resigned.
              Then they proceeded to cut off electricity and news coverage of their doings on a wide scale, possible throughout the country (differing reports) and tear gas and water cannon protesters.
              Micheletti, or anyone who would do these things is not anyone I would want in charge of my country.
              Imo these features of use of the military for the arrest, kidnapping of officials, lies to the public about the situation, and suppression of knowledge makes this a military backed coup, just one step up from School of the Americas Gen. Vasquez declaring himself in charge.

            • NomNomNom

              I’ve been spaminated. :(

      • TeakWoodKite

        Of the 16 permutations of the Honduran Constitution

        The 1982 constitution consists of a preamble and 379 articles divided into eight titles that are further divided into forty-three chapters. The first seven titles cover substantive provisions delineating the rights of individuals and the organization and responsibilities of the Honduran state. The last title provides for the constitution’s implementation and amendment. As of mid-1993, the National Congress had amended the 1982 constitution on seven occasions and interpreted specific provisions of the constitution on four occasions.
        Title VII, with two chapters, outlines the process of amending the constitution and sets forth the principle of constitutional inviolability. The constitution may be amended by the National Congress after a two-thirds vote of all its members in two consecutive regular annual sessions. However, several constitutional provisions may not be amended. These consist of the amendment process itself, as well as provisions covering the form of government, national territory, and several articles covering the presidency, including term of office and prohibition from reelection

  • Up

    As much as you do not like what the Honduran government/Zelaya was doing, since he was elected he had a right. He was trying to go around the judiciary to have a referedum. What is wrong with that? If the Honduran people don’t like it then the people should vote against his proposal in the referedum. Just like they did for Chavez.

    That is what elections are for. They can throw out he bum in the next election and can even change the policy back.

    And by the way Chavez also has the right to do what he wants. It is up the to the people of Venzuela to throw him out if they disagree.

    A very dangerous precedent for democracies everywhere.

    • http://NoQuarterUSA.net Larry Johnson

      Because it was unconstitutional. The Honduran law provides for a way to revise the Constitution. Zelaya wanted to do it by force.

      • trixta

        Reports on DemocracyNow say that it was a “non-binding referendum” — a “survey” — that would have been put forth to the people of Honduras. But what is not reported is how such “non-binding referendum” challenges or skirts around their Constitution, and as such how it could lead to Zelaya staying more than one term. But how is dismissing their Constitution democratic? Why not go through the process of amending the Constitution? Yes it takes time and it’s a struggle, but either you have a Constitution or you don’t.

      • TeakWoodKite

        Title VII, with two chapters, outlines the process of amending the constitution and sets forth the principle of constitutional inviolability. The constitution may be amended by the National Congress after a two-thirds vote of all its members in two consecutive regular annual sessions. However, several constitutional provisions may not be amended. These consist of the amendment process itself, as well as provisions covering the form of government, national territory, and several articles covering the presidency, including term of office and prohibition from reelection.

      • Up

        What could be more pure than a referedum or vote on the issue? What are you scared of?

        • PoliticalWaif

          The point is not whether a referendum is, in your opinion, “pure”. It is the fact that Honduras did not allow for referendums at all.

          For that matter, there is no provision for referendums at the federal level in the United States either. So if you’re looking to “compare”, you might start there. With your train of thought, you believe Obama should be allowed to further usurp US law and throw in an illegal referendum or two at will as well, and is his “right” to be above the law via a successful election.

          This referendum was ruled illegal by all powers that be, yet the President refused to accept that. When he couldn’t get ballots printed up, he had them printed in Venezuela and flown in, in order to bypass the legal process.

          On Tuesday, the Honduras Congress did pass a new law that will allow for referendums, but prohibits them 180 days before or after a planned Nov election. Even under the new law, the referendum is still illegal.

          There are no circumstances where Zelaya was acting in accordance with Honduras law. And that is sufficient cause for legal removal. To do anything else is unconcionable.

        • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

          Because just like Obama and the census, instead of letting the department that is in charge of elections take care of things like having the ballots printed, taking a roll count, setting up voting locations, counting ballots, etc. Chavez SENT HIM THE ALREADY PRINTED BALLOTS, and ballot boxes so he could run the election himself. The congress told him no he could not do that, so he broke into the place the military was holding them and had them stolen. Now why do you suppose he would want ballots, and machines from Chaves? Who also just declared himself in an election dictator for life?

        • catherine

          What part of unconstitutional don’t you understand? I realize why chavistas and obots despise Cheney so much. Because YOU ARE JUST LIKE HIM!

        • http://! stodgie

          up, the question is what was chavez scared of when he became a gasbag about a country that is not his own. frankly, zelaya was trying an end run around the democratic will of the people and got ousted for his trouble. so the military was used, it was what was available. next!

      • James Guglielmino

        And CERTAINLY, the army mobilizing against him and removing him WAS constitutional…Ummm, could you point out that part of the Honduran constitution? Thanks, I’ll manage to translate.

        • Docelder

          I am just supposing here that the army probably is sworn to defend the constitution in Honduras. I would hope if need be our army would defend ours just the same.

        • catherine

          The army should have arrested him and have the congress impeach Zelaya for violating the constitution, the Supreme Court ruling and Congress.

          I’m sure if Bush had been removed from the White House in his pjs and dropped off in Canada all the “progressives” would have been celebrating in the streets and for ONCE in their lives praising and thanking our military.

          But since Zelaya is one of the ALBA wanna be stooges you don’t see anything wrong with what he did. Only Leftists can run over the Constitution, right? Chavista pendejo!

          • James Guglielmino

            I don’t know ANY progressives who would have celebrated if our armed forces had moved to arrest Bush and send him to Canada and your assertion is REALLY, really stupid. Speaking for only myself, I would have been frightened to death if that had happened for the simple reason that if the army can step in on one president, they can do it again. That is exactly what is wrong with what happened in Honduras and Larry Johnson supporting it is nearly inconceivable. No one who truly supports democracy would support that happened in Honduras.
            Now, if our Congress had had the wisdom to impeach shrub and remove him….THAT would have been another story, entirely. I would have celebrated in the street, hollered at the moon. As it is, the illegal and unconstitutional acts, the lying…all of these only add to the foundation of evil upon which presidents who follow him, including Obama, will use to support what they do.

            • catherine

              Then your circle of progressives can be counted on one hand. The military in Honduras did not take power for themselves a la Pinochet.

              Zelaya was ready to ride rough shod over the Constitution and the Supreme Court and turn Honduras into a satellite of Venezuela. When elected officials violate the laws in order to remain in power that then becomes a dictatorship and the Honduran military remembered that their oath is to the constitution and not to any man.

              If Bush had decided to overturn the Supreme Court, the Constitution AND the Congress in order to remain President for a third term or indefinitely I daresay most of us would have welcomed his removal by the armed forces and allowed congress to swear in the next in line as an interim pres until the following elections.

              This is Latin America we’re talking about here. The military was’nt about to wait for Zelaya to give his buddies Chavez, Castro and Ortega permission to send their own troops into Honduras and arrest his own generals.

              Does the US media bother to inform Americans how many military leaders Chavez has had arrested without trial? Or how many Cuban military officials are giving orders to the Venezualan armed forces now??? No of course not.

              You can’t possibly understand the decision made by the Honduran military without being fully informed of what’s currently happening in Latin America and its history.

        • http://! stodgie

          ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh james, please don’t get a a raging headhache, hehehe.

    • MBC

      Hmmmn, perhaps the people in Honduras do not have faith in their voting process? Something we Americans need to start focusing on now. The reason our current representatives are not listening to us is because they have no fear that they will be voted out and are pretty confident the military won’t be getting them out of bed. If you doubt this, tell me how someone with a 13% approval rating gets re-elected????

    • PoliticalWaif

      A elected President has a “right” to bypass Constitutional law, and ignore the ruling of their Judiciary, Congress and Council that the referendum was illegal?

      This means you attach “above the law” as a power automatically granted to the winner of an election.

      Let me guess who you voted for…. hummmm…. don’t help.

  • graywolf

    So Obama is siding with Chavez and Castro – enemies of America.
    So, what’s wrong with this picture?
    Nothing.
    Obama is an enemy of America too.
    What an arrogant, ignorant POS.

  • centerground

    Thank you for a sensible commentary. Obama, as usual, is wrong.

  • Jack

    Larry, maybe you have seen this already, but here is a WSJ article dealing with failed American diplomacy, see the middle of the text.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124619401378065339.html

    Having read this, I understand your FU comment better!

    I raise another issue. If the military is the one that act as elections bureau, who would run this
    election? Was he just going to invent a vote counting apparatus? The idea that such and election would be fair is ridiculous–it sounds coup-like itself.

    These stories remind me of Thailand where the military is popular and expected by the public to coup and set new elections periodically.

    Also, Chavez might be scared of the precedent for his plans to rule forever. His referendum to remove the two-term limit failed, he hinted that he will do it anyway.

    Also, also: the fellow replacing Zelaya is from Zelaya’s own party! How can that be a “coup?”

    • Jack

      Precedent, I mean Chavez’ own military stopping him from claiming a third term underwhatever guise. Chavez claims dictatorship–his own rule–comes from “socialism”. He might as well invoke divine right.

  • NomNomNom

    admin: mighty Spaminator has munched my admittedly long post. plz retrieve, thx!! I left the links out!!

  • Diana L. C.

    Larry,

    Just today as I was trying to decide how I felt about the situation in Honduras, there were two thoughts in my mins: 1) my old suspicions about military take overs, especially those in Central an South America and 2) the feeling I have for our own soldiers, which is, in many ways, their willingness to fight for the freedoms of others around the world.

    This sentence of your post got me:

    The Honduran military is not a tool of some landed elite. Their intervention sends a pretty strong message that they are not going to sit by idly and let their nation go the way of Venezuela.

    It could probably be said about our young men and women too.

    I sure trust them more than I trust the ACORN groups, that is if the O camp decided to try a similar “special election.”

  • NomNomNom

    4th and 10th infantry battalions have turned on coup leaders

  • http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com MoniQue

    How much more of this can we take? And these are just COMING ATTRACTIONS FOLKS!

    Think about it, Obama he doesn’t even meet the basic ELIGIBILITY requirements to BE president (not born on American soil). It’s not a small matter of him not providing a real US birth certificate when asked by the American people, it’s that HE DOESN’T HAVE ONE TO BEGiN WITH because he was BORN IN KENYA.

    Which by the way, makes every bill Obama signs and every THING he DOES acting as president, iLLEGAL. And pretty much means if we let this go on we are breaking the law right along with him. CONSTITUTIONAL CRISES!

    Come join me and help put up another billboard around the USA, it’s only $5 the cost for a pack of smokey-dokes (a pack of ciggs for Obama)
    “WHERE’S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?”
    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102329

    CLICK HERE TO HELP DONATE MORE BILLBOARDS ACROSS THE USA (you know, the country that requires a president be born on U.S. soil?)
    http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/2008/12/04/%E2%80%A2-latest-update-on-obama-birth-certificate-case/

    At least we’ll get to SEE the question being asked, since the media will not!

    • politicalidentitycrisis

      I’m with you, Monique! My lawn sign will be proudly displayed as soon as it arrives.

  • NomNomNom

    a few thousands of people are apparently protesting the coup. tear gas and water cannons are being used to disperse them. phones, electricity in the capital are cut off; at least 6 TeleSUR and AP journalists who were providing live feed of the protests in front of the presidential palace were detained but have been released to return to their hotels. One of them reports that they were taken at gunpoint by the military, put in a military vehicle, taken to immigration and beaten before being released.

    • RalphB

      I’ve heard some agitators have come in from Venezuela to stir the pot. If true, I hope they get their pots stirred but good.

  • Hot Librarian

    On one side is lonely NOmNomNOm & the other LJ & Noquarter.

    Now Hondurans will be loved /hated by Noquarterers.

    Iranians have been usurped.

    • NomNomNom

      lol, you’re just mad I said we should trade you for Saberi :wink:

  • JozefAL

    Sorry, Larry, but the military option is NEVER acceptable in a DEMOCRACY.
    I’ll also note that politicians seeking to set aside term limits isn’t limited to “left-wingers” (Michael Bloomberg of NYC is hardly a “left-winger” yet he managed to get the City Council to put aside a measure passed by THE VOTERS of NYC to allow him to run for another term).
    Furthermore, this smacks of nothing less than hypocrisy when you condone a military coup in one country (regardless of the political support the military may have had) yet condemn election results in another. Incidentally, it should be noted that Zelaya’s term doesn’t end until January of 2010, so it’s not like this coup was actually called for. As far as I can tell, the military (and Honduran congress) overstepped their authority every bit as much as Zelaya did.

    • http://! stodgie

      and so jozefal, what would you have them do, turn into a venezuela? i don’t think so.

  • Hot Librarian

    Yes -a friend for NomNomNom.

    One man’s coup d’etat is another’s coup du tait.

  • Hot Librarian

    …coup du tete.

    Thats from learning Cajun dialects.Wrecks ones French!

  • NomNomNom

    ADMIN: AT LEAST 3 POSTS IN SPAMMER, PLZ RELEASE COMMENTS, THX.

  • HC123

    Thanks for the info Larry, nice post.

    Zelaya needs to follow the law and not get his hired thugs to implement Chavez style rule via bogus referendums.

    I am not surprised that Obama supports Zelaya, they use similar tactics (“activism”). I dont think US engagement will be helpful to the Hondurans with this administration, and if I were them I wouldnt want it.

  • K

    I commented on Twitter that it was interesting to see Obama so quick to condemn Honduras and remain silent on Iran. Then someone replied, “Don’t you get it? [Barack] is one of them!”

    I shudder to think.

    • Docelder

      Yep, right now he is standing on the deck of the Titanic crying out… I’m king of the world… We know how that worked out in the movie. ;)

  • James Guglielmino

    Yeah, an armed intervention into the affairs of a government is *always* a good and clear indicator of democracy in action. Please demonstrate, Mr. Johnson, where in the constitution of Honduras it lists intervention of the army as a procedure for declining to follow the direction the president of the nation is pushing for. What utter nonsense.

    • http://patriotparty1 patriotparty1

      You REALLY dont know what a democracy is do you?

      declining to follow the direction the president of the nation is pushing for.

      We dont have to follow anyone! We lead and they are to follow what WE THE PEOPLE tell them to do!

      — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

      Declaration of Independence

  • Pingback: News on the Honduran Coup » Pursuit of Liberty

  • pm317

    Our well read and well informed gardener who is originally from Honduras is happy with this coup. In his words, if the guy is turning into a dictator (a Castro wannabe) and he wants to be president for life, get him out of there by any means you can.

  • NomNomNom

    I can imagine the United States would be ever so much better a place if the military had stormed the White House, seized Nixon, a cabinet member, & 3 ambassadors, and put Nixon on a military plane and dumped him in France & then put Ford on the tv and radio to claim Nixon had resigned.
    Srsly.

  • Doc99

    Michael Ramirez contributes this thousand word essay.

  • huh

    birds of a feather…………

  • Hot Librarian

    22 Sth merican countries have condemned the miliary action according to gence France press. These include Chile which knows a bit about military coups & supreme courts.

    USA Canada & Mexico also.

    So it is NomNomNom & almost all govts of Nth & Sth America vs Lj & Noquarter& Pm13′s gardener.

    Nom Nom Nom also has Russia – just to annoy more posters.

    NomNomnomis very bad :)

    • NomNomNom

      :lol:
      Is this where I make an OT remark about the detention of Cynthia McKinney and Nobel Peace Prize winner Mairead Maguire and 18 other documentarists & peace activists by the Israeli navy? Or am I supposed to mention senator Al Franken? I forget which.
      Bad Nom, bad!!!

      3rd party in 2010 & 12

  • http://! stodgie

    when a president tries an end run around the people, it doesn’t matter who outs the scoundrel! and we are supposed to be the moral leaders? supporting a scoundrel who has chavez asperatiOns doesn’t say democrcay to me. now the left can howl and scowl, IT DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT!

  • Hot Librarian

    NomNomNom has more on his side! According to NYT the Presidents of Ecuador & the Pres of Argentina are willing to accompany this guy (I dont remember his name in all this blog excitement) back to the hondurn capitalthat starts with T & is rather long.

    Here is a chance NomNomNom -you could be walking down that gangplank as a gang of 4 (includes head of American org or something) !

    You could be arrested & your little face peering behind bars to the world.

    Ah but Signora Christina is rather attractive. She might ditch her husband & you could be Presidento Consorto.

    :)

  • NomNomNom

    It seems those constitution loving folks in the Honduran congress have just suspended 5 of everybody’s constitutional rights:
    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2009/07/convenient-violation-of-constitutional.html