Carville Hints the Fight Could Go On

James is right about Obama’s big mistake. He blew a chance to make it right within the party. He got caught.

But I don’t agree that a Dem will take the White House.

I think McCain will surprise everyone.

Obama is damaged goods and everyone knows it. The super delegates are supporting Obie now because of white guilt. They shouldn’t be however, because this is not about race. It’ about his lack of experience and associations which make him cannon fodder for the republicans.
By the time August rolls around the super delegates will move back to Hillary guilt free as more revelations come out about Obama.
Sen Byrd is a classic example. As a former clan member he feels at his age that he at least need to show support for the AA with the most delegates despite Obama being clobbered in his home state of WV. Later he can switch his vote back to Hillary when pressure builds to field a candidate who can actually win.

White guilt? Maybe more placating the AA group.

So…….we lose the White House in a year Bozo the Clown should have won.

We’ll still be on the side of AA voters.

I think that’s about what it comes down to.

I tell you what I think the bigger story is. It’ll be how the Democratic party turned on the Latino community.

That’s the real story.

This is a very interesting election. It’s like watching the Democratic Party get real.

We are no more able to handle cultural issues than the Republicans.

That’s become completely obvious.

The Democrats fall to Earth.

Oh, the recycled memo must be out to drag in Hillary as the reason Barack will lose, because one of the Obama dementors is sending around that old one on how a floor fight by Hillary will “tear the party apart.”

No. Nominating a LOSER will tear the party apart. Get it straight, Obamaborg.

The New Democrat party is one that needs to be destroyed at the convention. Dean and Brazille who think you can have a coalition without the Reagan democrats and working class people are in for a rude awakening.
We have to finally purge the party of these leftist pacifist loonies or there will not be a democrat party.
Rove is close to having his permanent republican majority if Obama is nominated.
I for one will be leaving the democrat party if Hillary is not the nominee.
I will also campaign for McCain as I have done for great democrats in the past like Clinton and Gore.

You have a good point.
I don’t hear threats from Hillary supporters about blood and riots in the streets of Denver.
Placating is a good way to describe how wimpy the super delegates have behaved. And we want these wimps to secure our country against Islamic terrorists?

Obama the destroyer!!! No uniter here folks-this revolution was televised the whole damn time. Wake up people. I truly never believed in evil until George Bush 9/11 world order. Now we have a new prince, Obama, that believes words can solve global warming. It really sucks to be this mad and sad at the same time. I see no need to whine on a blog about it. Yes, many people died when Bush stated “you are either with us or against us!” Obama is just as classless as Bush. I sorry to say that he could have really redeemed all of this RFK bullshit if he just wave his magic wand (or just said Yes, RFK died in June…shit happens. Hillary was just stating what happened in June.) He could also stated in January that President Clinton is not a racist. This is not ways of a uniter. Remember back in 2000 when GW Bush called himself the uniter and turned and spit on McCain for having a black adopted daughter. My god where do we go from Here?

Be brave, have courage, & watch for the signs.

I love this guy.

Well it should go on!

After snObama “won” the Iowa caucus his followers were already talking about who he’d pick as his VP!

That was before we really got to know who snObama is.

I must that Howie Dean and Donna racist Brazile were very good at covering up just exactly who and what snObama is — part of the Chicago political machine!

Most people don’t get into the nitty gritty details that we do — what they do know is that something isn’t “right” about snObama.

O.K. — Oregon — well what can we say about the idiots in Oregon who voted for the bum??

MSM trash is just polluting the airways and killing baby seals at the same time. I truly believe that they want to set up a Katrina/OJ scene where black folks are mad as hell and burn down the whole country. Well I know for a fact that my black ass is not going to riot over Obama. Trust me I am not the only one here. Black folks got other shit to worry about than Obama. He has a nice house and probably pays his credit card bills on time. I know this is not just a black issue. It is just a issue. Everybody of every race have bills to pay. So, don’t believe the hype the msm is propagating. Please call the msm out when they throw this angry AA/black voters bullshit at us. And please don’t forget about the msm new “angry women voters” bullshit.

If you even worry about national security, you’ll go Republican.

Me? I’m experience. I’ll go Republican.

I’m not mad at Obama.

I just won’t vote for him because he’s an idiot in a tan and a suit.

Then there’s the women who are mad and will not vote for him.

It all adds up.

He’s never going to be President.

I’m relaxed on ths point.

There is no way that Wright-mentored Obama will ever be president.

And the Democrats have lost my sympathy.

Yes, this should have been your year.

No, it won’t be.

I even think you better start worrying about down-ticket.

I think you may be surprised by just how deep this backlash hits.

If the MSM had been doing their job Obama would have been a footnote in Iowa.
The Fix has been in from the start. What Dean and those fools didn’t realize is the power of the people represented by the Clinton’s.

Oregon…You need to work on your patriotism

Oregon is known to have the worst crystal meth problems of any state. The Obomination pollsters probably told them to come to their voting location and receive a free baROCK

Carville is right, that June-rfk overblown media trick was sucha mess and sooooo disgusting to me.

Though, I am not sure that Obama could win against McCain. I really don’t think so.

James Carville is great. I think he and probably Hillary were very hurt over what the Obama campaign did over her statements in SD. I think Hillary was probably ready to say, if she didn’t have the popular vote she would just let it go, but now I think she’s pissed and he’s made it personal. This will go on, and reconciliation has just become a word. He’ll really have to apologize to make this right.

I made my first presidential vote for JFK. How proud I was when I left that polling place, knowing we were going to have my kind of president. I have voted for the Democratic candidate every year since then. I am not a Regan Democrat, I’m just a plain old Democrat, born and raised in Ohio. A lunch bucket Democrat who has sits by and watches as the older Democratic politicians in Washington are preaching change but not really meaning a word of it. They have a tainted puppet preaching one thing and meaning the same old beltway politics we have had for years and laughing about how they have hoodwinked all of us. In my opinion, Howard Dean and Donna Brazille are traitors to the Democratic Party and need to be removed. If they think they can win a national election without the great states of Ohio, Florida, West Virginia, Pennsylvania and Michigan they better buy some ocean front property in Arizona. I will remain a Democrat as long as we select the strongest candidate to run for president. If they select the tainted puppet, I will vote for the Republican Presidential candidate for the first time in my life. Wake up you middle class Democrats. They can’t win without us and they know it. Be heard, don’t take this lying down.

I’m not entirely sure Carville believes that either. His affect changed quite a bit when he said Obama will beat McCain.

I always enjoy that Ol’ Dog Carville…one smart Cracker…chuckle….
He always hedges a bit when discussing Obama’s chances of beating McCain as if he knows he’s just sayin unity bull shit. I think this fight is bigger than they play it in the msm.

*** OBAMA IS A FASCIST AND UNFIT FOR ANY ELECTIVE OFFICE ***

I think the supers are supporting Obama because of money, not race. I think they have been quite happy to accept big money from BO. In regards to Carville, I really hope Clinton stays in through the convention. I will be very disappointed if she drops out in June.

Agree…It’s Unity BS and he knows it. If the Rules and Bylaws committee decides to split the delegates Clinton could appeal to the credentials committee at the Convention. The Minority Leader of the State Senate in Florida is filing suit because they want all the delegates seated. Carville is right Clinton has the Moral High ground and should stick with it. The Primaries were rigged and the GOP will use this against Obama if the DNC is stupid enough to bestow an ILLEGITIMATE nomination upon Obama….I can see the ads now and it will all be about the obvious hypocrisy and corruption that allows such mis-management in DC to continue…SHEEESH !

I agree. Off topic…I haven’t seen Strawberry or Uppity post lately. Has anyone heard from them?

There is so much denial about how HRC’s supporter’s will go. They just don’t get it. Big surprise in November when the numbers come in and the country is red …. he is not capable of winning this thing.

Where is Carville going to go without being a Democrat? He has to say that Obama can win. His career is as a Democrat. His wife has the Republican side, so until he has an alternative, he’s a Democrat. And he can’t sit there and root against his team. But in his heart, he knows Obama is a ticket to four more years of Republicans. I wish he could say it. But he won’t.

I honestly believe that the Obamabots were LOOKING for something to pounce upon when Hillary made the RFK remark! The reason is crystal clear–the Obama baby doesn’t want to have to put Hillary on the ticket. For the life of me, I cannot understand WHY Hillary would even want to be Obama’s VP, but given that Bill Clinton had apparently been lobbying for Obama to offer the VP slot to Hillary, it seems that this RFK story was just a little too convenient.

I’ve heard some talk about Obama putting John Edwards on the ticket. I cannot see that because Edwards doesn’t bring anything to the ticket in the way of unity or states that will support him since he was unable to do very well in ANY of the primaries. Even in Iowa where Edwards had essentially been campaigning since 2004, he was only able to secure a second-place finish.

I wished that I had the optimism of some of Hillary’s supporters here that she can still win the nomination, but I don’t see how. I wished that I did because I know good and well that Obama is a train wreck.

The thing that really bothers me about what is going on with Obama the divider is the way that his campaign has injected so much vitriol toward various groups of people into this race. People keep talking about Obama losing the votes of white blue-collar workers, a core Democratic consituency. But very few have discussed his problem with Jews, another reliable Democratic constituency. I know several liberal, Democratic Jews who are actually talking about voting for McBush rather than risk the future of Israel with Obama and his team of anti-Israeli foreign advisors.

Actually, to Andrea Mitchell’s credit (and I do not give that woman much credit for anything beyond nice clothes), she has mentioned Obama’s problem with Jews several times. I just do not believe that Jews are suddenly going to come home to the Democratic nominee because this empty suit vows undying support of Israel when his advisors are all lined up on the OPPOSITE side of that argument. Andrea Mitchell seemed to think that putting Michael Bloomberg on the ticket would solve that problem. Although I actually like Bloomberg, that sort of choice would likely alienate as many as it might bring back in.

As a fellow Ohioian, I am right there with you. I will not vote for a “little ‘d’ Democrat.”

McCain in a landslide over Barry. I love the fact that everyoine runs around wiuth polls and strategy now. Then, in November, everyone suddenly realizes that a few states hold the key and that those states will decide the election.

Barry already pissed off Florida and Ohio – two swing states he must have to win. They will be red this year and Howard “the Duck” Dean and the Donna Brazilian-led DNC will only have themselves to blame.

Uppity maybe writing … vacations?

Ann you are so right about the Latino population. This is a huge voting block and Brazile is going to eat dirt over that one. There was plenty of bad feeling between Latinos and the AA community already. Obama will never get them to vote for him as a block. Never. You saw Nevada when the food service union leader endorsed Obama and his members voted for Hillary. There is no way that rift will be fixed. It’s even bigger than the woman rift.

I’m here! Dang it if life doesn’t sometimes get in the way of politics.

I hear the democrats are having trouble raising money for the convention.
Maybe they are starting to figure it out.

Long live James Carville! Long live the fight to the convention! Long live real democracy!

I’m ready for a floor fight. Ready for Pelosi vs. Hillary fight. Who’d a thunk it. Matriarch of the House vs. the Madame of the Whitehouse.

Pelosi’s going down.

I’m ready for a floor fight. Ready for Pelosi vs. Hillary fight. Who’d a thunk it. Matriarch of the House vs. the Madame of the White House.

Pelosi’s going down.

I wonder if “hurt” is Carville’s code for “you’ve taken this out of the political realm and made it personal.”

<strongand Howard “the Duck” Dean and the Donna Brazilian-led DNC will only have themselves to blame.

The only problem is that they (Dean and Brazile) will not blame themselves. As per usual they will lay Obama’s loss at the feet of the Clinton’s. Mark my words, they already are attempting to deflect this debacle onto the Clinton’s. Some senior Obama aid came out in recent days to say that ” the only person who can put his arms around this party and begin the healing process is Bill Clinton”. They call him a racist and now they want him to come out and for the good of a party who treated his wife and him like pure shit, he is supposed to put on his most winning smile and do alittle song and dance to bring us all back into the fold. Dean and Brazile should be taken and tarred and feathered for this. (Add Pelosi onto the mix as well!!)

I’ve received two emails and a snail mail asking for donations to the DNC. I deposited them in “File 13″. Money is tight for us right now, because my husband lost his job back in February. If I have spare money, I’d rather give it to Hillary.

Why so glum Hillary supporters? Why speak of Obama as Dem nominee when we have PR, RBC meeting, uncovered Obama scandals to whoosh forth upon the U.S. landscape.

For starters, check out this analysis, via Talk Left, of the May 31st Rules By-Laws Committee :

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/28/164638/636

“To recapitulate, a strict interpretation of the DNC Rules that follows the reasoning of the DNC Memo circulated today would require the following results:

A. The stripping of 50% of the delegates of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Michigan.

B. The full seating of the Florida delegation.

C. Should the DNC RBC reject the safe harbor provision for Florida, then Florida would have 50% of its delegations stripped, but Barack Obama would be entitled to no delegates from Florida due to his violation of Rule 20c.1.b.

The upshot of strictly applying the rules as described above would be:

A. In Iowa, Obama, Clinton and Edwards would lose one half of their delegates. My understanding is that this would result in a net loss for Obama of 6 in his pledged delegate margin over Clinton.

B. In New Hampshire, the three candidates would lose one half of their delegates with no net change in the delegate margin between Clinton and Obama.

C. In South Carolina, the three candidates would lose one half of their delegates with a net loss in Obama’s delegate margin of 9.

D. In Michigan, Clinton would gain 37 delegates. In addition there would be 28 uncommitted delegates. A net gain of 37 delegates for Clinton.

E.In Florida, if the entire delegation is seated, Clinton gains 93 delegates Obama 55, and Edwards 13. A net gain of 38 delegates for Clinton.

If instead the safe harbor provision is deemed not to apply, then Clinton gains 47 delegates, Obama 0 (due to his violation of Rule 20) and Edwards 7. A net gain of 47 for Clinton over Obama.

By my math, a strict interpretation of the DNC rules would result in a net gain of 80 or 89 pledged delegates for Clinton. I am unsure of what the result would be regarding super delegates. For example, if the Florida and Michigan Super Delegates are stripped or halved, then the same result would apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I am unsure of what the result of such an action would be.

Speaking for me only (Big Tent Democrat)

Carville might be a bright guy when it comes to behind-the-scenes election tactics, but he’s God-awful as any type of spokesman.

At least three times, he mentions ‘that South Dakota thing’ without specifically mentioning what he is referring to. Those watching the morning news may not be as clued in as us junkies as to what ‘South Dakota thing’ he means.

He repeats the same illegible comments over and over. It’s really irritating.

And he steps on the campaign’s message A LOT. Him blabbering on that Obama will win is not helpful to Hillary’s case for staying in.

I guess he’s better than no Hillary rep, but can’t Team Hillary find someone better to speak on their behalf? Wes Clark or Stephanie Tubbs-Jones or Jamie Rubin would all be terrific.

great…I always enjoy reading your and strawberry’s comments!

No Carville is incredibly astute.

THe South Dakota Thing leaves the mention of assasination out while bringing attention to the spamming of the media by the obama fuckatards, i mean campaign suragates.

Carville is along with Mary Matlin and Carl Rove one of the most brilliant political chess players in modern history.

Like or dislike them, they are the troika of modern political analysis manuevering and machinations.

Axelrod is just a chicago wannabe dirtbag that manipulated the caucus calamities and used the politics of division to destroy the dem party to try to get his man Barack HaySoos Obama nom.

None of what Axelrod pulled, the hateful rhetoric, the shitty press releases demeaning Hillary, the nasty coached race-baiting surrogates….none of it would have been effective if the Media had not been in the tank for Obama and was willing to push the Axelshit while not bothering to analyze plastic Jesus.

Without anal expulsions like oberman and mathews, the faux newsmen, it would never have worked.

The fact that any of the in-the-tank media be they diving deep (MSNBC HuffingtonShitpost) or just wading in chin deep (Politico, CNN, Wash Post, La TImes) has the audacity after they shit they have pulled with Obama to ever call FOX News FAUX News say just how out of touch with the reality of what a news reporting agency is supposed to do.

But lets be honest, none o them come close to Walter Cronkite, these arent news reporters they are failed TV personalities shilling political diareah for the highest bidder.

Am I wrong in saying the O’s reasoning is that:

a) he may have avoided being beholden to “Jewish” money, which up to the present was a crucial rite of passage for anyone running for political office.

b) even if the Jews withhold their votes, they do not form a significant voting block???!!!

So he can just play it cool, avoid stirring those waters, until he chooses to make any master move in that direction!

If it wasnt JFK it would have been -well anything. They need to stop Hillary before Puerto Rico when she swamps him in the popular vote so they tried JFK and may try again.

Hillarys supporters need to target MSNBC and boycott it-contact its sponsors and warn them it will never end if it starts. If you dont drive a wedge between Obama and the media you cant win.

Yes, I don’t blame Carville for not telling the truth here (of course McCain can beat Obama!)…can you imagine the media-firestorm (fed by the Obama campaign and the Obama blogs) if Carville had spoken the truth? I couldn’t help but dislike Diane Sawyer just a bit for forcing him to answer these stupid questions. She should have focussed on strategy.

I too love Carville.

Obama could apologize until the cows come home, and it will not make me think he is anything but an arrogant, narcissistic empty suit. I will never vote for him, even if he “allows” Hillary to be the VP candidate. He and the DNC hierarchy can rot in hell while I happily vote for John McCain.

I agree. You can tell that Carville has gotten some inside scoop from Clinton’s team. If her popular vote is higher – he says that she will push through to the convention. He is usually a straight shooter. Does not talk unless knows something. I wonder if Clinton is going to try to hold on until Michelle tape comes out. Also – more on Rezko evolving.

MSNBC is still on the air? Haven’t watch any of their programming since they became Obama apologists. I wonder if Olberman is trying to get his job back on ESPN since he seems to be tanking as a “serious” journalist.

I wish the Clintons, Carville, Clark, and other sensible Democrats would seriously think about forming a third party. If the nutcases are going to take over the current Democratic Party, we need a real alternative. The Republican Party is handy right now simply to make sure Obama gets stomped in the GE if he is given the nomination.

Here’s a symptom of Obama’s GE problem, the first Rasmussen release of the day. In Alabama, Barack Obama won the primary by 14% over Clinton.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#val=AL

But symptomatic of Obama GE problem, Rasmussen finds that while both Democrats lose handily, Clinton runs 8 points better than Obama (a 20% versus 28% deficit).
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/alabama/election_2008_alabama_presidential_election

This result bodes ill for Obama’s “new electoral map” strategy to win NC, SC, MS and Georgia, especially since Alabama has a 26.3% African-American population.

It’ll be how the Democratic party turned on the Latino community.

That’s the real story.

You are correct. What party in their right minds….should I continue?

That’s why the Clintons spending so much time in PR is smart. I hope Hill is taking Spanish lessons right now for the future

Why not? It will be a long, hot summer
…for BO

If you even worry about national security, you’ll go Republican.

Republicans aren’t really that strong on national security. Right now, for example, everyone knows that our National Guard aren’t here in the USA protecting and helping us, but have been sent to Iraq by GWB and the Republican Executive.

Actually, in the same SD interview with Hillary, she flatly denied there were any talks about being VP. She said that she is running for the nominee and put the blame on those rumors on her opponent. I don’t think Hillary has any intention of ever being VP. It’s either the nominee or go back to the Senate.

I think one of the reason’s that the Obama camp hyped up the RFK stuff is because in that same interview, Hillary was making her very strong case to why she should be the nominee. I think they wanted to step on that message and they did.

However, I agree with Carville. It backfired. Attacking Clinton like that at this stage of the game is unnecessary if, like Obama says, “he’s the nominee.” If he was, they wouldn’t still be trying to derail her. This isn’t over and they know it.

“Well I know for a fact that my black ass is not going to riot over Obama.”
LOL….

It’s kind of funny the same media that has kissed his ass will also bring him down in fall by making Hillary voters so mad they will no vote no matter what. If he thinks he is going to win the womans vote he is so wrong

Rev Wright has disappeared from scene it seems to me that the plan of him coming out at the press meeting was planned . I think Obama saw the exit polls in PA and knew he had to get rid of him and the only way to have REV WRIGHT GO CRAZY to give Obama a reason peole would buy. What do you all think

I agree, if you’re really worried about national security, you’ll vote Clinton.

Annie seems to feel it’s a done deal, Obama and the nomination.

I don’t.

I think you’re right, and Mel’s article on Chicago it’s many foundations which control money, and power, is quite illuminating.

This group seems to control the political agenda,in Chicago, anyway, which explains the nomination of this POS Obama, and the general level of stagnant and stinking mediocrity we see in business, and politics.

God, I hope so, I can’t tolerate her, she’s disgusting.

I heard Harry Reid mention this morning on a radio interview that he talked to Howard Dean, Pelosi, and other members of the DNC as well as congressional people who made up the superdelegates – they are gonna force a decision by June 3, heavily leaning for Obama. They expect to count but not count FL and MI – meaning delay until it won’t matter anymore (meaning continue using the 2026 number of delegates, of which Obama just needs less than 50 more (Dean alone can appoint nearly 76 SDs) instead of having to include the real number of 2210. THE FIX IS IN. They strongly, and I believe erroneously, believe they can control and puppet Obama, wait till his terrorist backers and corruption scums in Chicago get a load of that. That many hands up his a**, only a matter of time before constipation sets in.

Absolutely positively so. He threw himself under the bus for the obamamessiah to drive the bus over him once and for all and never be heard from again.

Until ob slinks back to Chicago and climbs back into his “old gang” from the cesspool of hate we won’t hear anything from Wright. He let ob muzzle him, for now.

I truly never believed in evil until George Bush 9/11 world order

Read Mel’s piece on Chicago politics, and you see the talent Thomas Ayers attracted was not the best and the brightest, not the smartest by any means.

Look at Cheney and Bush’s string of failures, their corruption.

What else could have happened with that group?

They are completely incompetent, motivated by grandiose thinking with no understanding of government, and it’s complex functioning.

And everything they touched failed, because no one, democratic or republican, is capable of sustained critical thinking.

It’s not evil, it is truly the banality of corrupt stupidity.

None here would hire an Obama, or a Bush, we all KNOW these guys, they get the management position, but they can’t do ANYTHING, the entire office mocks and despises them.

What was their main qualification?

They’d kiss ass, and they’d take the bribes, keeping their mouths shut.

Yes yes Obama will make a FINE President…

Intellect, skill and integrity still matter in the presidency, despite what the money people think.

But most are as mediocre as Bush…

Folks, the rules are on our side!!

If The DNC Is Going To Strictly Apply The Rules . . .

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/28/164638/636

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed May 28, 2008 at 03:46:38 PM EST

And if the DNC Memo (which states that any violation of DNC Rule 11 on primary timing requires at least a 50% stripping of delegates without exception) expresses the views of the Rules and Bylaws Committee then the following action should occur on May 31:

Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina must be stripped of at least 50% of their delegates. As Florida Representative Ted Deutch states:

Rule 11 clearly prohibits primaries or caucuses from being held prior to the first Tuesday in February, except in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, each of which is assigned very specific limits on when they may hold their contests. Florida Democrats were penalized for violating Rule 11 when our state moved the primary seven days too early. Michigan Democrats, whose state moved 21 days early, were penalized, too. Oddly, Democrats in three other states [the three states were Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina] that violated the rules were not.
More . . .

In addition, the Florida delegation must be reinstated in full as it qualifies for the safe harbor exception provided in Rule 21 of the DNC Delegate Selection Rules provides:

21. STATE LEGISLATIVE CHANGES

A. Subject to Rule 18.C. of these Rules, wherever any part of any section contained in these rules conflicts with existing state laws, the state party shall take provable positive steps to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the provisions of these rules.

B. Provable positive steps shall be taken in a timely fashion and shall include: the drafting of corrective legislation; public endorsement by the state party of such legislation; efforts to educate the public on the need for such legislation; active support for the legislation by the state party lobbying state legislators, other public officials, Party officials and Party members; and encouraging consideration of the legislation by the appropriate legislative committees and bodies.

C. A state party may be required by a vote of the DNC Executive Committee upon a recommendation of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee to adopt and implement an alternative Party-run delegate selection system which does not conflict with these rules, regardless of any provable positive steps the state may have taken.

The Florida Democratic Party complied with sections A and B of Rule 21. The DNC did NOT invoke Rule 21C and thus, Florida is entitled to the safe harbor provided by Rule 21. Its entire delegation should be seated.

However, should the DNC not accept the safe harbor argument, then Rule 20c.1.b comes into play. Rule 20c.1.b provides:

A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is set by a state’s government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state.

. . . “Campaigning” for purposes of this section includes, but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; . . . The Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are covered by this section.
It appears that Senator Barack Obama inadvertently violated this rule by running cable advertising that “reache[d] a significant amount of the voters” and by making a “public appearance” before the primary date. Accordingly, he must lose all of his delegates from Florida, should the DNC rule that Florida does not fall within the safe harbor.

To recapitulate, a strict interpretation of the DNC Rules that follows the reasoning of the DNC Memo circulated today would require the following results:

A. The stripping of 50% of the delegates of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Michigan.

B. The full seating of the Florida delegation.

C. Should the DNC RBC reject the safe harbor provision for Florida, then Florida would have 50% of its delegations stripped, but Barack Obama would be entitled to no delegates from Florida due to his violation of Rule 20c.1.b.

The upshot of strictly applying the rules as described above would be:

A. In Iowa, Obama, Clinton and Edwards would lose one half of their delegates. My understanding is that this would result in a net loss for Obama of 6 in his pledged delegate margin over Clinton.

B. In New Hampshire, the three candidates would lose one half of their delegates with no net change in the delegate margin between Clinton and Obama.

C. In South Carolina, the three candidates would lose one half of their delegates with a net loss in Obama’s delegate margin of 9.

D. In Michigan, Clinton would gain 37 delegates. In addition there would be 28 uncommitted delegates. A net gain of 37 delegates for Clinton.

E.In Florida, if the entire delegation is seated, Clinton gains 93 delegates Obama 55, and Edwards 13. A net gain of 38 delegates for Clinton.

If instead the safe harbor provision is deemed not to apply, then Clinton gains 47 delegates, Obama 0 (due to his violation of Rule 20) and Edwards 7. A net gain of 47 for Clinton over Obama.

By my math, a strict interpretation of the DNC rules would result in a net gain of 80 or 89 pledged delegates for Clinton. I am unsure of what the result would be regarding super delegates. For example, if the Florida and Michigan Super Delegates are stripped or halved, then the same result would apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I am unsure of what the result of such an action would be.

If the Rules and Bylaws Committee pulls a fast one for Barry, then by all means, we take it to Denver!

America is worth fighting for!

All the way to Denver and VICTORY in November!

GO HILLARY!!

Barack HaySoos Obama

“HaySoos”, was that a sneeze? Bless you.

I disagree with you, he’s not a cookie cutter, bland, Britney Spears type consultant, dependent wholly on polling, and marketing.

He thinks independently and critically, he’s very real, and appears well informed, having a command of the subject matter.

When he speaks, you feel you can trust him, intellectually.

Can’t say that about ANY in Obama’s group.

Astroturfed thinking is not conducive to successful decision making, especially for long term indications.

James Carville, another smart southern democrat that warms my heart.

Please, Hillary, do NOT drop out! Fight all the way to Denver, through Denver and beyond, if necessary!

Carville is one of the few who remained true blue and I salute him for that – and because he always makes me laugh as well as appreciate his from the hip remarks. Witty and eccentric is my preferred pundit style and he is the epitome of it. There are a few characters like him, on both sides of the aisle who I get a real kick from.

The alienated groups discussed above, Jews
Latinos, Women and the blue collar whites of appalachia ARE imperative to the party.

The GOP is wooing us, courting us, comlimenting Hillary, speaking out against the sexism, behaving like pure gentlemen and appealing to the patriotism we feel as people proud of our country. I’ve been offered more unity from republicans this year than I have from the dems. The republicans are on the right side of the FL and Mi issue. They have been honest about ob in their attack ads and in outing him for the good of the country.

Carville is overstating Ob’s chances to win. There is time for that to sink into the national conscience slowly… but the republicans sure are doing a hell of a job convincing this lifelong dem.

The republicans tried to railroad Hillary for decades but this year have been more than kind…

her own party and her detestable opponent have done it this year and attacked the dem base to do so!

The DNC appears to be ruling against Clinton, BIG BIG surprise.

I hope she nails them to the wall, she has WON this nomination, it’s hers.

Fight for it, Hillary…

You are absolutely right. It was so obvious.

I have been mailing them back in their postage-paid envelopes with a note explaining why I am not contributing.

Looking at the most recent Rasmussen polls, I see that Hillary manages a tie today against McCain, but Barack is down by 5 points to McCain.

What piqued my interest is that while Hillary has a “highly unfavorable” rating of 32 (i.e., as I see it, people who will never vote for you) Barack is at 35. On January 30, as we entered primary season’s main show, Barack’s “highly unfavorables” were 20% and Clinton’s were 35%.

Is this something superdelegates may be watching?

Your belief in the accuracy of the reporting regarding Bill lobbying for V.P. for Hillary has been dispelled time and time again. Bill has never lobbied for Hillary and the V.P. spot. The msm has been lying and it is too bad there are people who still trust what they say as being truth.

@katmandu, 5-29, 9:42

“Is this something superdelegates may be watching?”

Probably not. They appear to be watching the activity in their lower colons.

What an amazing battle this all is eh? Rajin’ Cajin’ Carville has his hopes up again thank god! One point of difference from most bloggers is that I cut a little more slack to Howard Dean. His 50 state strategy of competing in every county and precinct will pay off for the Dems, but now he’s stuck with all of us battling for Hillary or Obambi. If he keeps being a good neutral referee then he’ll come out ok. Donna Brazille though is more suspect.

I agree, I wished to address this last night, ‘the South Dakota thing’ is not what needs to be said,

the RFK controversy, might be more effective.

He mentions South Dakota with an eye on the political map, but the overall claim is what needs be addressed, a more broad audience.

The way Obama gets talking points out, you almost would swear it is an example of electability memes surrounding John Kerry in 2004.

Hot air, but it gets out there.

Suppose Axelrod will call upon Taibbi to smear anyone again like he got the man to do so Sen.Edwards would have less threat to a VP position by Gen.Clark?

Where would he do that now? Oh, he’s already bashed Sen.Clinton before NH primaries, when they supposedly had her in death throes.

It is getting depressing around here, the fact is Hillary will have the popular vote and a stronger case to make to the SDs obama will have a “majority” of the delegates, not the required delegates needed to claim the nominee. If the SDs are stupid enough to give this nomination to obama they will pay in November. Hopefully people are still helping Hillary make calls to MT and SD. I am not giving up, but know reality and hoping the SDs aren’t as suicidal as what seems to be happening. And yes this should go to the Convention the popular vote equals the “Will of the People” so if that is what they say they want in the determination of this then the clear choice is Hillary, if not lets have that good old fight on the convention floor. If the obamabots want to draw blood it only enhances my point on why obama will loose in the General Election.

But doesn’t that add more fuel to the fire, in terms of legitimizing Obama’s spin?

They aren’t saying it but I think the real reason the Clintons are staying in is because they know that Obama is going to be caught up in Patrick Fitzgerald’s net. As soon as the other shoe drops watch the Kossholes turn on Fitzgerald as they did with L J.

James Carville, you rock! Keep up the good fight!

The comment Hillary made answering “Why do you stay in the race?” was so distorted by Obama. It’s the same lack of respect he and his followers have shown and continue to show Hillary Clinton. It’s disgusting!

TO ALL WHO GET DNC REQUESTS FOR $$$

Many of us have been disgusted that when we have sent complaints, by the thousands at least, to the DNC email, they have been unread and without response. We all quickly received instead a request for $$$.

Frustrated and unheard, we tried many ways to get through and found none. To top it off, our email addresses were given by same DNC to John Edwards, wrongfully and without our consent or knowledge. So the night of Hills big WVa win, we got – 6 minutes later- a mass email from Edwards also asking us for $$$. When I sent an angry note back to edwards, I also got a quick non-response telling me where I could email Edwards to arrange a speaking engagement! lol

SO THIS IS OUR BIG CHANCE AT LAST! I got the same recent DNC $$ request you mentioned. I went to the bottom of the page and found “UNSUBSCRIBE”. When I clicked it I got a new page that ACTUALLY ASKED ME why I was leaving DNC mailing list – FINALLY!!!

I filled in the comment box stating I would not support a party in which SuperDelegates were systematically voting against the voters of their state in support of the unqualified, security risk candidate, Obama.

So, watch your email in box for DNC $$$ requests. Here is your chance (as mine above) to finally be heard on what real Democrats think!

Also, sorry to say don’t look for obama camp to run out of $$$. Their big $$$ are why DNC wants them and with GE/MSNBC bottomless profits backing obama – plus TONS of laundered Arab $$$ – they aren’t going to run low on cash.

This is why our grass roots actions are so important – to show them that all the $$$ in the world can’t buy them a win. We won’t stand for it – and WE WILL BE HEARD.

Well, now that all of this information about BO’s corrupt political ties has been revealed, it should be very clear to all of the SD’s that a vote for BO is a vote for more corruption in government.

Have the bribes been that big, that it is worth it for the SD’s to sell their political souls to the devil?

Obama is the candidate of change, but isn’t it funny how nothing has changed in Chicago politics since the 1920s? My grandfather was a precinct captain in Chicago from the 1920s-1940s. He had to have a bodyguard after a threat was made on his life. I remember that my father always said, “Never trust a politician from Chicago. If they weren’t corrupt to being with, they’ll get that way through the process.”

Well I know for a fact that my black ass is not going to riot over Obama. Trust me I am not the only one here. Black folks got other shit to worry about than Obama

***

LOL! Yes, we’re ALL Americans and we’re all in this together and I think the MSM is trying to divide us – I don’t know why, but that’s what they’re trying to do!

how can it be a 50 state battle if two of them are sitting disrespected? just sayin’

Love James! Also – in case you haven’t seen it – another “conservative” analyst makes Hillary’s case on Real Clear Politics:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obamas_woes_a_tale_of_three_st.html

If you are worried about National Security, the first thing to do is quit P.O.ing the potential enemies (Not Appeasement, just not stirring up hornets’ nests). The longer we stay in Iraq, the more the Arab population dislikes us. Vote for somebody who will get us out of Iraq. Republicans are in no hurry to do that.

I haven’t watched them in at least two months. If their sponsors are interested, they are wasting their money with women …. who, it might be interesting to note make most household buying decisions …. I have no interest in watching them again. ABC gets my viewership. That is all of the national news I can stomach. And I won’t be back. Not even when the hard rain starts. They were whores for Obama. The fact that they switch to McCain won’t impress me. They also sold the Iraq war. They are shameless and the current practioners of “journalism” have made lawyers look more honest. Who would have thought?

Carville’s fabulous, and though incredibly astute (which is why he refers to the controversy as that “South Dakota” thing…he is being dismissive and not feeding the fire), he’s also one of the few who will speak his mind (I loved that he succinctly labeled Richardson a Judas!).

OT: someone I know lives very close to Carville and Matalin in Old Town, and he says they’re the most wonderful, loving couple who are so sweet together, and who have a great relationship with their kids.

Barack has NO PLAN to get out Iraq. Just words. He was too stupid and prideful to call McCain on his offer to go to Iraq with him. IS HE INSANE? McCain has much more standing in this area than he can imagine. Look like you are the “uniter” you say you are. Now he wants to go? Alone? What a turd he looks like. A snotty, my way or the high way little brat. Wonder who that best resembles? Scotty McClellan probably can help you out with the answer if you’re stumped.

I read that the Obama campaign put out the rumor that Hillary was running for VP. Their rational was supposed to be that if Hillary’s supporters thought she was giving up that they wouldn’t go to the polls in these last few states and vote for her. Essentially the Obama people wanted to drive down Hillary’s numbers.

Surprisingly, Hillary and Obama are even in So. Dak. right now.

I would have though Obama had a lock on that state.

That article make a great case for Hillary and against Obama. Hang in there folks, Hillary is gonna be our president!

Nice to hear well of the Carvilles outside of politics.

By giving it reference to South Dakota he’s setting up more talk in a coming regional race.

This could help downticket persons get lined up with Clinton. Carville helped shape that opportunity.

It’s pretty astute in that sense, but he should still make it about the RFK reach by Obama over Memorial Day, then bring it back to the region.

I am an Independent supporting Hillary Clinton but as a realist, I know that Obama is close to being the nominee. That said, I have been watching and listening for the Obama camp to begin to win over Hillary voters. Here was a perfect opportunity. Instead, his campaign went overboard in their efforts to cast Mrs. Clinton in a negative light. Hey, am I just one of millions of Hillary voters just not feeling the love yet from the Obama campaign? Memories are long. Party healing is as much the responsibility of the winner as it is of the loser. I am sure if Hillary is the nominee, she will make the effort to welcome the Obama people into her campaign.

Is she on the path to winning the popular vote overall? That would make her argument much easier. And I think its wonderful Puerto Rico’s primary has become so important.

We should stop saying two versions of the popular vote, one version is all the contests the other excludes FL and MI. FL and MI voting results are certified and Obama voluntarily removed himself from the ballot for political advantage at the time in MI. Now he pays with disadvantage. Those are the breaks.

The service based group Democrats Work is sponsoring an online competition to send General Wesley Clark to a Congressional District to participate in a community service event. The contest pits 40 competitive Democratic House challengers against each other and the online voting ends of Friday.

Darcy currently ranks in the top 5 in the online voting, but we need your help to get to the finish line in first place!

Click here to vote online for Darcy!

http://democratswork.org/index.php?page=display&id=138&can=10&clark=0

Basically, it appears to be good way of strengthening contacts. People who max out one form of giving to their favorite candidates can help these value votes out greatly.

Several groups are opposing Obama. I am even starting a new party to overcome and recover from the looming disaster in November with Obama as the nominee. If you’re reall sick and tired and disgusted with the same old crap at the DNC by the leaders who aren’t leading or opposting, come join us.

Send an email to

newwomensparty-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Tell us a little bit about yourself and your location. This is strictly a grassroots organization and we ar merging with other groups to network and register our extreme displeasure with the DNC cowardly leadership. All these hearings, all thes eimmunities given to get testimony, and all the blatant defiance to even show up. We have to employ nuclear options to chagne everything from politics as usual. Come join us, everyone.

Has anyone read/heard the crap that Pelosi told CNN today ???

How many neurons do Dean, Pelosi and Brazile have? Do they really believe we are as stupid –politically and otherwise– and the punks drooling on Obama’s words?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/29/pelosi-prepared-to-step-in-to-end-race/

Bbboooooo

Carville. He’s da man!

I think you should include us guys. We’re just as upset about the sexism towards Hillary.

annin — I hope the rumor Lou Dobbs heard is true that Hillary will run as an Independent. What bothers me though is how hard The Democratic Party and the media have pushed to stop Hillary. Pelosi is trying to force Unity on the convention and in the process she is helping to destroy The Democratic Party. What would be wrong with this going to the convention? I have watched many brokered conventions and our Democracy remained in tact.

I won’t vote for your candidate, Sen. Obama, no matter what, BTD. Do you “despise” me?

Seattle — I’m afraid that Pelosi will not let this get to the convention. I am tired of this party determining that being politically correct is more important than winning elections.

That sounds more accurate.

So Pelosi was made Chairman of the Convention –does she have to act like Chairman Mao?

Love James Carville. He really is one of the best when it comes to politics. He can’t say what he would really like to say about Obama and this whole election mess. Hillary or McCain. No Obama ever on any ticket in any way. No money to the DNC and no vote for down ticket dems who support Obama. We know how to snap the Democratic Party back out of their stupor. We just have to be constant and consistent. They’ll get the message or they’ll pay dearly for their ignorance. No Obama ever.

dogfish — watching the party I have identified with and loved all my life implode before my eyes is one of the saddest things I have ever experienced.

Seattle — the fix was in however, Obama was a tough sell and so the more sales resistance the American people showed the harder they pushed. Now it appears that they will kneecap any Super Delegate who fails to support Obama and the base of the party has been told tow the line or get out because its a New Democratic Party. The only thing new about our party is it will have very few members.

kat — I think Carville was just being polite by saying Obama could beat McCain. The Republicans have the goods on BO. Remember the Michelle I HATE WHITEY tape. Carville knows Obama cannot beat McCain. Everyday he shows what a complete amateur he is.

They broke the mold when they made James Carville!

He’s one of a kind, period.

He’s absolutely correct about the “South Dakota Thing”. The entire episode is a lesson in how not to overplay your hand. The Obama campaign continues to alienate Hillary supporters. They must truly believe their own rhetoric…

Fine. Let them find out the hard way.

OhioDem — I can relate to everything you say. My first vote was for LBJ (although I really wanted Bobby). Hillary has Bobby’s seat in the Senate and I hoped that she would win the presidency 40 years later for him.

I have never voted for a Republican because I believe that our party stood for the people. For the last 30 years I have watched the Democrats control congress but sit by while our jobs left and our Middle Class life became harder and harder to attain.

Than along came Bill Clinton and the trend was reversed and we had a strong middle class again. The lazy asses who call themselves Democratic Representatives don’t want another activist president to stop the decline — they would rather sit by and watch it happen. This New Democratic Party is no longer interested in its base, its seniors, its workers, its Hispanic voters. They have sold us out. We weren’t supposed to figure it out but they got desperate when they couldn’t stop Hillary and showed their true colors.

I am changing my party registration to Independent because I cannot watch the party I so identified with implode before my eyes.

Ohio Dem — sorry in 1964 I voted for Johnson. In 68 I voted for Humphrey.

There are odd things going on with the jury in the Rezko trial. They have been deliberating for 2 weeks. The court has given them wide latitude as to what days & hours they will meet. He’s given them days off for jurors to go to their childrens’ events, short days for personal (but not urgent) interests, etc. He even gave the jury a day off for one woman to go buy a limited edition stamp because it might sell out! Are you kidding me? Have you ever served on a jury where the judge let the jury make their own schedule or take a day off for ANY reason?
I believe that the court has been pressed to delay the verdict until the nomination has been settled. The judge has limited press reports, granted delays, and dragged this out as long as possible. There has been some reporting of these unusual events, but most have been buried or muted.
Something is fishy, you can fact check it yourself.

Comment by beebop | 2008-05-29 10:38:16…ABC gets my viewership.

ABC is no haven unfortunately. Here for example is the WABC (radio) weekday lineup:

12:00AM 1:00AM Laura Ingraham
1:00AM 5:00AM Coast to Coast
5:00AM 6:00AM Curtis Sliwa
6:00AM 10:00AM Imus In The Morning
10:00AM 11:45AM Curtis Sliwa
11:45AM 12:00PM Paul Harvey
12:00PM 3:00PM Rush Limbaugh
3:00PM 6:00PM Sean Hannity
6:00PM 8:00PM Mark Levin
8:00PM 10:00PM Bob Grant
10:00PM 12:00AM Laura Ingraham

I adore James Carville….Whatever he says, I second it…..He is a doll…:-)

New Orleans–I’m glad Carville didn’t mention it and start the whole thing all over again.

It didn’t work. Most people are similar to me. I never watch those shows.

It was a ghost of a story to me.

I heard on Lou Dobbs yesterday that Hillary is only leading in Puerto Rico by 15% and that 50% of Puerto Ricans intend to stay home. This goes against everything we have heard about PR’s 80% voting history.

More Obama tricks trying to keep the popular vote down in order to stay ahead in that area? Nothing is too dirty for that campaign.

Susanna — hang in there — there is a rumor that Hillary will run as an Independent. She had until the end of June to decide. This according to Lou Dobbs.

I just wonder though if Fitzgerald’s legend may be more than the reality.

Pelosi is an idiot and the DNC is playing with fire and getting burned.
My guess is they are desperate from cash and all those “small donors” (sarcastic!) from Obama are not pitching in. They also seem to have gotten our message (F—off)

Barack Obama is set to headline a 100-person Democratic National Committee fund-raiser in Manhattan on June 4, the day after the last primary, according to a supporter organizing the event.
The $28,500 per-person event is taking place at 820 Park Avenue, at the home of prominent Democratic fund-raisers Jane Hartley and her husband, Ralph Schlosstein. Checks for event will be made out to the White House Victory Fund, the newly created financial arm of the D.N.C. whose proceeds go to the Democratic nominee.
According to the event organizer, the fund-raiser is meant to signal that the Democratic Party establishment is getting ready to recognize Obama as their candidate and shift Democrats’ focus away from the protracted primary with Hillary Clinton and onto the general election against Republican John McCain.
According to the organizer, “We don’t want it to look like a victory party,” but rather, “a reality check.”

I’m waiting to hear back from the Obama campaign.

Andy — it was all supposed to be soooooo easy. Iowa would happen and the nominee would be Obama –then along came Hillary — The Road Runner beep beep.

Forgot the link; here it is

http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-headlines-d-n-c-s-victory-fund-raiser-manhattan

How Carville must be feeling now. After Howard Dean became DNC Chair he tried to insert Harold Ford. However, nothing came of it. Carville wanted Dean out because he said Dean would bankrupt and destroy the party. Yup

I received two e-mails yesterday, one from John Edwards-flogging for Cong. Dems. and one from the DNC.–

I replied to both that I was just a Fl. resident and Hillary supporter who was low-informational, poor working class, older white woman so they should know I have no money and not even ask.

I was so much fun.

Speaking of Michigan, Survey USA’s May poll shows Obama losing support among Democrats, including a sharp dive in AA support:

SurveyUSA. 5/27-28. Likely voters. MoE 4.3%
Tot Men Wom Whi Bla Rep Dem Ind

5/27-28
Obama (D) 37 30 44 34 62 10 60 37
McCain (R) 41 48 36 43 26 78 18 37

2/26-28
Obama (D) 46 43 49 39 88 13 76 43
McCain (R) 45 51 39 51 10 83 16 45

Hard to believe he could drop 16% with Democrats and drop 26% among black voters. But he did block a chance for them to hold re-votes. Michigan has been the most economically devastated state (according to Hillary.) Also here’s a backup Detroit News poll showing McCain ahead, and a lot of undecideds.

Then there’s this unique orange satan insight:

There are a number of unique factors that are adversely affecting Obama’s support in Michigan as indicated by polling for the Presidential race. Some factors are likely temporary (Democrats angry about the primary debacle) and some are more systemic, such as an unpopular Democratic governor who dared to courageously propose and enact a tax increase to fill a budget hole caused by many factors, not the least of which was twelve years of Republican fiscal irresponisbility under John Engler. Finally, Michigan’s shrinking but still large contingent of “blue collar” voters are in general quite susceptible to the politics of disctraction, blame and Republican/Hillary Clinton smear campaigns. An additional note regarding the black vote: Detroit is in the midst of a political scandal caused by an arrogant and corrupt black mayor who happens to be a Democrat. This is not good for the Party at the local or State level. Once their focus is back on Obama, he will be fine.

Excuse me? They don’t dislike us because we are in Iraq. THEY HATE US and have long before the Iraq war and will continue to long after. They must be pretty persuasive though because there are a whole faction of American citizens that believe America is to blame for all the world’s evils and right now they are supporting Obama.

i disagree, Ragin Cajun knows what he is saying
he isnt giving Uhhbama free air time with the baseless pathetic attack by saying what it is just referring to it in SD language..

Whoa, Five Thirty, cut back on the drive-by hits on fellow Hillary.

BTD of Talk Left is illustrating Hillary can win if the RBC follow their own rules, i.e. Hill gains up to 90 delegates.

Instructions for your next slam: Take your time to READ and COMPREHEND before sticking both feet firmly into mouth.

No, Sen Byrd is setting up the money spigot for his successor. If you look at where is donations come from, his biggest single donor was MoveOn to the tune of $80000.

Byrd is retiring, his successor is getting started through Obama and MoveOn.

I cannot believe this group – what is wrong with them. Dean, Pelois, Reid, superdelegates obviously are in denial.

It may have a little to do with the fact that the DNC has NO MONEY, and Obama as alot of money and they need the money.

OMG – I see all out war on this election

I called the DNC on Monday (202-863-8000) to let them know that I contributed a lot of money to Hillary’s campaign and am prepared to donate the same amount to the DNC ONLY if MI and FL are seated and allowed to vote. The woman I spoke to said that Howard Dean told her to tell us that MI and FL will be seated and allowed to vote, but that they will be penalized because they moved their primaries up. I said, “Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina moved theirs up and weren’t penalized.” She said, “Yes, but they had permission.” (I got this weird, creepy feeling then.) I said, “Like I said, if MI and FL are not given full votes at the convention, I will not be donating to the DNC.” She said, “I’ll pass that along. Thanks.”

That’s going to be their argument: IO, NH and SC had permission. MI and FL did not. The fact that they didn’t follow the rules in the first place (penalizing them by taking away half their votes) and are now suddenly such sticklers for the rules pisses me off. Dean is trying to manipulate the rules to suit his Messiah. Call them if you have a chance and let them know what you think.

I find it odd that they are not sequestered so that can get this over with. Their or other federal cases with the Governor and other Chicago pols lined up.

The judge is a woman – U.S. District judge Amy St. Eve.

They (the judge and lawyers) are protecting or not allowing Obama’s name to mentioned in court proceedings. This may mean that Obama’s name will surely come up in subsequent trials and they don’t want to contaminate future rulings.

You do have a point, long drawn out trial with days off for child-care issues, and holidays. It would appear the judge doesn’t want this case to interfere with the campaign as well.

My guess is that Rezko would have been acquitted right away if the jury had doubts about his guilt.

The judge is Amy St. Eve. I think an aquittal would have been right away if the jury thought he was innocent. The have tons of tape and transactions, so there shouldn’t be a problem with evidence. Plus the defense chose not to have any witnesses for Rezko, witnesses which would have included Obama. Defense rested and put the onus of the federal prosecutors to prove guilt.

I would also have thought this case would have been sequestered, thereby minimizing time needed for a verdict.

Obama’s name is involved in the case, and the judge chose to use a pseudonym for his identity.

Your point about it dragging on is well taken. I think the judge does not want this trial to interfere with the ending of the primaries. When a guilt (or mistrial) is rendered could have an effect on the nomination. Ironically if he is aquitted, the trial goes on with other Chicago pols and IL governor, but if acquitted I wonder what the Messiah Media will do – suddenly discover a trial of such magnitude and consequence.

They may succeed in forcing SD’s to back Obama. But where they will NOT succeed is forcing US to vote for him.

Even if Obama declares victory with 2026, that will have to include Super Delegates, because mathematically he can’t get enough pledged delegates before then. Super delegates can change their minds and aren’t committed, even if they say so now, to any one candidate. And if the R and B committee leaves it up to the Credentials committee in August to decide the fate of MI and FL, as well as what the true number of delegates the nominee has to have, the DNC will be shooting themselves in the foot if their wish is to start playing the General Election campaign now.

I hope Hillary’s team has their legal skills sharpened…there’s some slippery snakes in the DNC.

Now THAT’S a smackdown to look forward to!

Many of us have been using red ink to get our point across.

She won’t drop out. Making a contribution today will be your support for her to continue. It makes a big statement. She needs to hear from us with $ to continue to the convention. I made my contribution today.

Careful. The 250,000 people in Oregon who voted for Hillary are still pissed and hurting.

I think Obama went to see him and threatened him to shut up. Wright knows everything about Obama including the scandal with the 3 murdered guys at TUCC church. Wright can take him down. Obama probably gives him money to shut up. I’ve thought this for a while now.

Deep Truths: God I needed a good laugh “both fee”. Your too good. Carville will have a lot to say later. He won’t be restrained like he is now. Bill Clinton isn’t going to wrap his arms around anyone in the mass media or Obama. Bill will stand with Hillary all the way to the convention and then the White House. We’re gonna win. No one said this fight was going to be easy.

No way. Let this assholes start a new party. I’ve worked all my life for the Democratic Party and so has all my family. Lets throw these dirtbags out and take our party back. One at a time, starting with Obama.

Maybe to give them an opportunity to have someone court the vote in the jury. Happens a lot. The judge should be brought up on this. No jury especially in such an important case should not be sequestered.

Asian-American voters are for Hillary too. The Clintons are respected and loved by this ethnic group.Obama is a disgrace to his AA community.Respect is one of the values of the people and Obama does not have that. When he flipped Hillary off & brushed her off his shoulders,gangsta style, Obama lost his dignity & class. Not presidential at all. Moreover, he has numerous gaffes, a grade schooler will blush.

whah wah wah. yeesh what a bunch of babies. I demand you be my dogs and vote for McCain. Heel now and do what I say. I am so loving idiot Hillary supporters whining up a storm, it only guarantees my boy John McCain will win. And that whiny Hillary will be blamed for the loss, hah. What a huge bunch of losers you are all.

quick question, can anyone name any legislation passed by Hillary? Kind of like McCain Feingold, or trying to pass McCain Kennedy? In 8 years what has Hillary done? Nothing, right. Please nominate that liberator of Tuzla so the Dems can lose all 50 states, instead you will only lose by 10. Oh well, this is all music to my ears. Wah wah wah. Democratic losers whining. Vote for McCain out of spite, seriously. I can so get away with being honest because you are all my dogs now. McCain-Palin, or how about McCain-Jindal. The Mac man will do it first, will get the first woman or minority as President, and Hillary will choke with jealousy. Be my dogs now and vote McCain.

That is exactly right. And through Saturday, your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar. You give $10, it gets a $10 match, and Hillary has $20 more to stay in the race with. $20 + 20 = $50, $50 + $50 gives her $100. Let’s make our contributions NOW! (www.hillaryclinton.com)

Lou, I know there was double-counting of votes in North Carolina. I am certain there was at least some double-counting of votes in Oregon as well, both states in favor of Obama.

However, where is the proof that voters went out en masse for Senator Clinton? I’d love to have that proof, and I agree with your previous assertions that Obama does not have 50% or more of the electorate — I would guess he has at best 40% (a very vocal close to 40%), and he won my state by a supposed 18 points — something I really can’t believe. (I live in Wisconsin.)

I do think that some of the Obama supporters have voted in multiple primaries and should be prosecuted for their felonious behavior. But once again, how do we prove that?

The topic of the Obama kerfuffle over the Hillary reference to RFK needs to be put in proper perspective for several reasons.

It was done on a Memorial Day weekend, as an attempt to hijack sensibilities in the holiday news cycle.

It was done with disregard for RFK Jr.’s own opinion with how it was said.

It was done as some kind of attempt to turn it into a smear against Senator Clinton, as someone who must have hoped to incite an assassin, with some kind of racial retribution overtones implied.

Barack’s own campaign sent out talking points of such a nature.

Bobby Kennedy is an Icon in our mythology, Barack does not measure to that stature. For him to try and claim some kind of moral equivalence is immoral.

As for the historical record, there remains much background in the death of both Kennedy brothers that was essentially unheeded. Their brother recovers from a stroke at this time, and regardless of political difference one would have expected better of Obama than trying to use their experiences as cheap ploy, as Carville notes.

So the Obama campaign dishonored Memorial Day weekend as best it could by advancing the story to their aims.

This fundamentally discolors the holiday’s purpose, an affront to those who have loss to mourn or recall.

This also disrespects RFK’s own efforts, whose historic speech on the night of MLK’s killing in Memphis, given by Bobby from within Indiana, welded the legacy he went on to forge to that of King Jr.’s in the assertion that humanity shares in its loss of great leaders as one would lose their brother.

The Memorial Day weekend is about remembrance, but to have RFK’s name brought up with it brings up the loss of his brother, President John F.Kennedy, as well.

In the past a man who was part of the security detail in Dallas was someone I had opportunity to meet, for a brief time. There was a BBC special being aired upon the assassination, on witnesses meeting untimely ends, on people who claimed more than one shooter were there.

A friend believed this to be quite interesting, he disliked Kennedy’s politics, and it carried to a dislike of him personally.

We went to a video outlet and got the BBC Documentary. Went back and watched it with others, he shared with us a bit of a story.
The coworker of his worked in Dallas when JFK was shot. He didn’t just work there, he saw much of the day’s events happen. He was contracted to be part of the Secret Service’s help for the day.

The Secret Service actually hired a large part of SCI people for the work.

In fact, the Documentary film showed him at the airport in Dallas, dressed crisply, black and white reel footage. My friend would point and grin at his appearances, long a coworker of his in the prior two decades. They were driving along the motorcade, quite familiar with the town and the local cops, part of the help.

The movie went on to suggest more than one person was involved in his killing, as a later Congressional hearing found evidence to be true n the 70s.

The Secret Service detail subcontractors were staffers for SCI. Services Corporation International, presently the largest funeral service chain in America, was getting its start in Texas with the ability to buy up regional competition and downsize the technical aspects of preparation, allowing them to focus upon more efficient return and buying market share to the front end of service industry.

Ironically, the man who did the restorative work on JFK’s head was one of his coworkers, who flew to Bethesda with the President

So the Secret Service employed the guys working to protect President Kennedy and these were the same guys who provided his two caskets(he changed one from Dallas to Md). You knew they could dress the part in three piece suits, hires who were themselves Directors and/or Embalmers, all of whom were pretty familiar with the Dallas PD and several other characters of interest in the sage surrounding the events there.

Anyways, after my friend shared what he was told by the man, that JFK was driven “into a crossfire” among the many items he cared to share, with the film it raised a sad kind era of the American chapter. That was the dawn of our greatest days in a lot of ways.

When I briefly met the man, we did discuss much of the day. My greatest interest was in the Warren Commission. Did he ever say anything?

He said he was “never asked” and that he “decided it would a good idea not to say anything.” That was my way of taking it that he was given due reason to wit hold talk. It seems strange the Commission would go so short as to not even talk with many of the people under contract for the President’s protection.

But he did confirm that they drove “into a crossfire” and that “they had people all over the place, guns were going off everywhere.”

He worked decades for SCI. That company was GWB’s number four career contributor going into 2000. They own big chain funeral homes in Florida and Texas where the Bush family can get enough swing votes to steal close races, even if they have to enroll deceased voters to get it. Cheney shot a Texas funeral bigwig in the face on a hunting trip, at the time there were some inquiries to missing bodies from Katrina, and several Florida scandals. The same interests were subcontracting the Katrina DMORT efforts for the most part.

Maybe someone can ask Sen.Spector about that since he’s the only living member of the Warren Commission.

These days, the media can take you out and not have need to kill you if you are a politicos of any degree. There’s still DC Madames and other little people to take care of the old fashioned way. The big dogs simply get taken down by the 24/7 news cycle, a different kind of bullet works to its effects for the powers that be in America. Now if you live in Pakistan it could be another story at this time…

This could be seen personally in the DUmond/Huckabee saga, and how the news in essence carried a blinmd eye to the Hunting of a President.
The way they throw RFK’s name around and try to tangle this should certainly be addressed. Heaven forbid that his great legacy gets assumed by someone lacking to the extent Obama does. If Teddy passed anytime soon they’d try and pass the mantle onto Barack until the Rep.Kennedy gets a bit older.

Obama doesn’t deserve to step into that void. He never served like most of the Kennedy brothers did in the armed forces. He never took stands past the point of expediency either.

He lacks the warmth and insight any of those brother had in addition to his lack of background. He’s an empty suit, what Ken Laye is Energy, Obama is to Community Organizing. No wonder he voted for Cheney’s Energy policy while gas is through the roof.

Someone needs to say it, and since they are using the names nonchalantly, it would be my preference spoke truth to power on the topic.

It was important to let some time pass between Memorial Day and haviong said this, perhaps it has been said too late to draw attention now. All apologies, if that is the case.

Apologies for typos as well, spellcheck also missed a spacing in the word “withold” above.

Mr. Murder, wah wah. Want a baby bottle. Successful politicians don’t say something that needs “clarification” hours later. She is an idiot to reference RFK, no wait, Obama made her do it. The Lioness of Tuzla. Michelle Obama is a bitch, Hillary is a bitch. Bitches don’t belong in politics, just in the voting booth. Now all of you be my bitches and vote for McCain.

This is so funny coming from someone who supports Obama … WORM? What Obama Really Meant? Auschwitz anyone? Uncle? Great Uncle? Sunshine? Sunrise? 57 states?

Need any more? Your wuss is a walking gaffe …

And apparently he things that 5 paragraphs of a letter from his doctor is okey doke for his medical records? An admitted drug user doesn’t want to release his medical records? What’s up with that, man?

As to Carville, another southern white racist terrified that when Hillary goes down nobody will ever listen to him again. I love how this proves that nearly all Hillary supporters are racists deep down. Candidate A and B have nearly identical positions, candidate C none. All of candidate B’s supporters out of a hissy fit go to candidate C. Not logical, ergo other factors must be in play. The thing liberals don’t understand is that the public sector is based on the private sector, Her royal Clinton taking from the rich to give to her rich cronies solves nothing. And her thinking that she can buy off blacks with fancy words (business creates jobs, not empty slogans) shows how much she holds blacks in contempt. Wah wah sexism. I voted for Christie Todd Whitman twice. She would never whine like Hill does.

The first black or woman president will be a Republican because in that party it is not all whining, people win on their own merits, not because of who they married.

As to Obama, nice guy but too young, loves the sound of his voice too much (great for radio, not much else, Hillary sounds like a cat scraped over a cheese grater) and has a bitch of a wife.

Thanks to you, my cohort of bitches, McCain will be the next President. The country needs his steady hand.

Gee, I haven’t been called a racist yet this morning. Three hours. Almost a record.

What is it? Can’t stand the truth? He is an inexperienced FICTION WRITER who has fewer votes from the people who cast votes than she does. He has run an extremely dirty and divisive campaign. He has spent an unGodly amount of money and called her and the former Democratic President RACISTS. He has not released his grades, his medical records (5 paragraphs don’t cut it), his records from when he served in Illinois, he has lied about his church association, his association with Bill Ayers and Rezko and says he gave the Rezko money back but no one ever asks him when and if he donated it, who it went to ….

No, it isn’t about color, my man, it’s about TRANSPARENCY. And he doesn’t pass that test. He is an obviscator and he ducks answer questions. And then, when his HANDWRITING IS ON A QUESTIONNAIRE, he just wrote notes, he didn’t read it … if — and I emphasize IF — IF that’s true, is that the kind of LEADERSHIP you think is adequate for the WHITE HOUSE? Are you all there upstairs?

beebop, McCain won fewer votes? Are you on drugs? I want McCain to win you schmuck. I love this website because I can mock you as much as I want and you will still vote for my candidate. It is wonderful. Did you even read what I wrote. Obama’s wife is a bitch. He is too inexperienced and loves the sound of his voice too much. I only write here simply to mock you idiots who think a vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary. I can be utterly honest too, because you will still vote for McCain.

The Democrats could have won if they nominated a white guy, instead they went between a shrill batshit insane woman, and a black guy with the name of Adolph Staling McHitler…ooops Barack Hussein Obama. Never underestimate the stupidity of Democrats.

I don’t like Bush. Big Government Conservatism is an abomination. McCain is not a big government conservative. But McCain didn’t whine when he lost in 2000. I only regret it isn’t Hillary against him. A 50 state romp would have been fun. She is Mondale without black support. McCain is Reagan with a war record. The slaughter would have been total. O wait, does her storming of Tuzla count as a war record.

You are my bitches. Vote for McCain.

I am soo happy I can’t describe it.

CJ, you’re not fooling anyone. Let’s see, you call us “bitches” and accuse us of racism – classic Obama troll behavior, not republican behavior. You repeat an untrue Obama supporter talking point “Candidate A and B have nearly identical positions.” and you make a weak McCain argument “steady hand” that is not a McCain talking point. You argue like an Obama troll and insult like an Obama troll, so it is a safe bet that you are an Obama troll who thinks he is being clever.

This is a feeble attempt to get Clinton supporters to vote for Obama. What you fail to understand is that the people here are adults. Do you really think that we will vote for Obama because you claim to a McCain supporter and call us names? ROTFL. This isn’t elementary school.

Fooling anyone. Let us see, I support McCain Feingold, am opposed to earmarks, I also support McCain Kennedy. Am vigorously opposed to Roe Vs. Wade and look forward to the overturning of it next year. In addition, McCain’s brother is a neighbor of my brother-in-law in northern Va. and is a very nice guy. Cindy McCain, unknown to most people, has done great work bringing health care to Micronesians. I think gay marriage is tantamount to forcing equal status (not equal rights) down peoples throats (civil union is fine, marriage is a sacrament). I think Social Security as designed was insane and favor some kind of privatization of it. I also think this housing crisis was caused by banks who have the luxury of knowing the government would bail them out. I favor drillling in Anwr, I support the war because Hussein was a caner on the middle east, but wish McCain had run it from the beginning. I can name chapter and verse why McCain will be a great President. I support NAFTA and CAFTA, I see no reason why steel workers should be favored over Americans buying cheap steel from Baosteel in Shanghai China, a place I worked for by the way. I believe in the second amendment because I believe in more freedom, not less. I favor vouchers because Catholic schools are better than public ones and I see no reason why inner city children shouldn’t get quality education.

I truly, swear to God want you to vote for McCain. America can’t afford a few trillion more in debt to the chinese from a Democratic government.

Issue after issue I am right.

But yeah, I am an Obama troll. You people are so deliciously brain dead. Which is why I can be utterly honest. Were you also aware that John McCain adopted a daughter from Bangladesh?

The guy is an honest to God hero. Beyond his necessary shilling for office, I know in the end he will do what is right.

Mitt Romney has a lot more class than Hillary. I thought he was an empty suit, but Hillary gives it all new meaning.

Believe you me, I know you will vote for McCain. I do it for principle, you because you all have elementary school mindsets.

In the end, I totally win this fight. McCain-Palin 08

And Michelle Obama is a bitch. That is absolutely correct. Never trust a man who marries a bitch. Bill Clinton married one, and we all know how trustworthy he was (blowjobs in the oval office? what a pig)

Cindy McCain has quietly donated millions (unlike the Clintons loud proclamations of donating the their own charity so Bill can ride around first class). I only know of her work in Micronesia because I lived for a time on Pohnpei, or Ponape as it used to be known in the Federated states of Micronesia. I had an accident in Nan Madol and if it wasn’t for the American charity built hospital would probably suffer from some kind of permanent disability, so for me it is also personal.

John McCain’s son also served in Iraq. I really regret he can’t destroy her in November.

Shall I go on about why I love McCain? He wrote McCain Kennedy, comprehensive immigration reform. As a true Capitalist I believe in the free flow of goods and labor. LABOR. If we can get Mexicans to work for less, and if it benefits the Mexicans willing to do it, it is successful capitalism. McCain understands this. He also knows if Mexico doesn’t have a safety valve of their most poor it would go Venezuela on us. A narco trafficante oil oligarchy on our southern border would be a disaster.

And, of course, the surge is working, in a few years the violence will run its course, it is a true shame McCain didn’t run it from the beginning. People who know nothing of history always think that what is now will always be so. The war in the balkans is now starting to be forgotten, but in 94 it seemed as though it would last forever. The same is true in Iraq, most of the ethnic cleansing is done. The war is slowly ending. We have won.

And by the way, I am not a Republican. I am an independent, and proud of it. I don’t adopt anyones talking points. I use my own words.

When Bill Clinton favored Nafta and China’s entry to the WTO I supported him. I simply tell the truth, that way I can never be proven to be a liar. John McCain is a hero to me.

Ulahane: I believe that is point, set, match to me, you just don’t want to admit you lost. I could tatoo McCain on my forehead, say vote for McCain, and you would whine “but you really like Obama. wah wah, Hillary is my angel. So a vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary.” and you will vote for McCain, and I will even film myself voting for McCain, and you will still whine. I am in the presence of complete losers. It is not for nothing I have long called you dummycrats.

LOL. If you were really a McCain supporter, you would be the worst on the net. No one tries to rally support for their candidate by calling voters stupid for doing so. No has said that a vote for McCain is a vote for Hillary. A vote for McCain is a vote against Obama. But you are right about one thing; I don’t believe you.

Ulahane: shall I give you names and addresses of people I know who know that I have been a McCain supporter since his first run in 2000? How about my Naval Commander Uncle? This is an example of the utter delusion of Hillary supporters. Shall I rip Obama more? He is wrong about Iraq. Wrong about Iran. I can’t say much else because who the hell knows what else he is for?

You truly are clueless. Obama can’t win. I don’t need to rally supporters to McCain. It is in the bag. You can say a vote for McCain is a vote against Obama. But I believe voting should be an affirmative act, otherwise you are just an idiot.

I loathe, hate, despise Hillary Clinton, she is about the worst woman in the world. Entitled, evil, greedy, vain, pathologically unfit, prone to delusion.

She really stormed Tuzla. Listen, I have two words to make you realize I am on the level. I watch Hannity and Colmes. I love Dick Morris. I watched Father Pfleger rip Hillary a new one, and Morris agreed. He knows her personally.

I also watch Bill O’Reilly, I never watch MSNBC and only found out about Olbermann from Hillaryistas whining about it.

I hate Hillary, I didn’t even know this website existed until a friend told me it is a place to laugh at leftwing nutjobs. I have no doubt Hillary will run until November, whining all the way. I want her to run as a third party candidate, she owes it to you.
This is a miracle to me, hillary supporters voting for Republicans. It is Christmas and my birthday at once.

Obama can’t win. How fucking dumb are you? Whether Hillary dead enders stay home or vote for Obama or McCain doesn’t matter. The electoral college map ain’t there for him. He ran against the war but the surge is working. Lights out.

There is no way I say this on normal sites. I never heard of this webpage, I imagine what, 500 people know of it? I simply love dancing on Hillary’s political grave. She said and did everything to win and still lost.

I love how Hillary raised 200 plus million, loaned herself 11 million, ran up 20 million in debt, opposed to Obama’s 250 with his 30 in the bank, and Obama still managed to outspent her, what is it now? 10 to 1 you people say (your math is so funny). She pissed money away on a jetliner for her, a jetliner for Bill, a jetliner for Chelsea. She can’t run a campaign, and yet you say she can run a country. McCain ran half as much and won in a walk, and he has far more money than her.

The whining you of you people here is like sweet nectar to me. I win.

But yeah, I love Obama so much I can’t name a single thing he has done. I guess this makes me the worst supporter of him too.

I am your God, admit it, you are my dog. I demand you vote for McCain to spite Obama. Or pretend I love Obama so vote for McCain to spite me. Or vote for Nader. Why don’t you write Hillary’s name down. I don’t care, I just want you to know that I WIN no matter what you do. Now heel my little bitch.

You just don’t get it. I don’t believe you – period. You can claim whatever you want. I don’t care if you “think” you win. Our country only really looses if Obama wins.

“But yeah, I love Obama so much I can’t name a single thing he has done.” Neither can ANY of his open supporters. Say whatever you want, this is my last response to you on this issue.

Ulahane: wonderful, I agree that our country only really “looses” sic. if Obama wins. I think I agree since your English is that of an 8 year old. But I grow bored of rubbing your nose in your own shit, so I shall bid you adieu. And thanks again for the support.

As to “I don’t believe you. ” why not add a Hillary “as far as I know.” She will never be President. Hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahha

No, a lot of us will vote for McCain. And then I suspect we’ll really bug you as we clamor for him to be even more moderate than ever.

That’ll make us smile.

As Bob Somerby over at the Daily Howler pointed out, Hillary said the same thing in way back in Martch and nobody – not one person – said a thing. So this is for certain completely manufactured outrage.

As Bob Somerby over at the Daily Howler pointed out, Hillary said the same thing in way back in March and nobody – not one person – said a thing. So this is for certain completely manufactured outrage.

Agreed. I have a wife and two adult daughters I love and admire. Sexism pisses me off.