“Let’s Move On”

We have all been asked to do this in some form or another like the teenager coming in at 3:00 am with the bumper hanging off their parents’ car. When you make a hash of things and destroy what doesn’t belong to you you have to “explain yourself”. Why the little princes George and Dick think that they do not have to do so just shows that they think the people of this country are nothing. First things first. Deny Dick his law enforcement security detail. Like the law says he doesn’t get one after 6 months and if he is afraid of his shadow he should not have been a lying scheming tyrant. As you sow so shall you reap Dick.

Well, I think the American people might be better served if the congress got all mired up in reviewing the Bush/Cheney years. They sure as hell can not deal with the economy, health care, regulation of the too big to fail financial schemers and looters on Wall St., energy policy or any other damn thing that is screwing up our lives on a daily basis. It might set a good precedent—each new congress and president reviewing the criminal acts of its predecessors. Could actually save the country.

Going backwards is a deflection away from the present atrocities that Obama is perpetrating – ie: full access to your financial records via the proposed health care act.

Check it out.

There is no way the Dems want to hash this out, they aided Bush every step of the way. They kept us busy telling us that as soon as they had a majority we would have impeachment, we saw how well that worked. Pelosi took Impeachment off of the table as soon as they gave that B@#$% the position of speaker of the house. There is no party for the people.

Just consider all of the time and energy and money that the Republicans spent going after Bill Clinton–first Whitewater, then the Lewinski scandal–a good way to keep Congress from actually engaging the urgent issues of the day.

The ONLY reason Pelosi took impeachment off the table is so that they can have the majority in congress and senate and pursue their agenda.

Most politicians are interested only in power and enforcing their ideology on american citizens.

Gosh could we do this later?, cause right now America is under attack from the Democrat controlled syndicate called the Obama White House.

Our current President agrees that we should move on. So we should do as he says. It’s not just Bush and Cheney and the Republicans saying move on. Obama has said the same.

Huh.

It’s true that Democrats are less than eager to answer questions about their complicity in enabling the dark deeds that transpired for eight years. Some apologists or overenthusiastic comsumers of Fox News and conservative talk radio enjoy hurling invectives, engaging in conspiracy mongering, and resorting to the “I know what you are, what am I?” argument. While entertaining, none of that changes the fact that Bush/Cheney and their cohorts and enablers wrecked the Constitution and should be made to pay for their crimes. Indeed any and all who voted for the PATRIOT Act without reading it or approved the continued encarceration of innocents at Guantanamo and Baghram need to be hauled before a court and/or truth commission.

I personally don’t think that the US should allow countries like China, for example, to dictate who we should lock up in our prisons and for how long (just ask the wretched Uighurs). All these issues need a good airing out. If the Chinese or the Saudis or any other American “allies” take umbrage, well, screw ‘em.

But that’s just me.

Sure dcmediagirl but you are forgetting something crucial here: “General” Musharaf came to power via a militar coup. He was not “elected” and had no Congress oversight.

As much as I may agree with you in what the previous gov. did let’s not forget:

1) It was democratically elected and Congress did not impeach….
2) Much to my dismay: it was RE-ELECTED!
3) Congress had oversight of it all during 8 long year: they can cry foul for the first few years but not for all 8 of them.

There is more of course, FISA, internet monitoring, etc. and even some form of rendition are all being continued on this Adm. (Guantanamo has not closed yet). On the other hand, unfortunately and in case you forgotten: who trained all the those “generals and police” that tortured and disappeared tens of thousand of people in Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and much of Latin America in the 70′s and 80′s. School of the Americas anyone? Their “instruction manual” with their explicit “training techniques” which included torture was made public in the mid 90′s and such “School” is still open albeit with a different name….

So…yes, I agree with you. But let’s be real honest here.

Obama has said the same

Maybe because he is the same? It is sure starting to look like democrat and republican are both really just two brands owned by the larger oligarch holding company. Somebody tell me I am wrong here. I would love to be wrong about this.

If only you were wrong. Bush and 0bama. SOS

Yes, let’s be honest. It depends on how you define “elected”:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/06/pakistan.elections/index.html

Pakistan has a National Assembly and a judicial system (allegedly). But let’s leave Pakistan and its colorful electoral system aside for a moment.

He was not “elected” and had no Congress oversight.

So if someone is elected and has legislative oversight all bets are off as far as obeying the law is concerned? Anyone can get into office and make the rules up as they go along? No. That’s what they do in banana republics.

Actually I’d argue that those who are elected and not installed via coup have a greater responsibility to follow the rule of law. Otherwise we’re no greater an example for justice and democracy than the Bush’s beloved Saudi royal family.

DCMediaGirl, thanks for making the point so well that likewise America will be just fine if an investigation into the abuses of the Cheney-Bush administration takes place.

Obama doesn’t want this investigation because
a) Obama is worried about his celebrity, popularity and legacy and his ability to sign into law handouts of taxpayer dollars to the corporations and interests that supported his election and will support his reelection;
b) Obama wants to maintain all the powers that were grabbed by Cheney-Bush as the precedent was established for such unlawful behavior will likewise not challenge his administration and he will not be obligated with respect to accountability and the rule of law, and be free to disregard the balance of power intended by our nation’s forefathers.
Obama’s actions to date show him to be Dubya and then some — civil liberties, preventive detention, signing statements, keeping secret White House visitor logs, etc. This agent of Change hasn’t changed a thing, he likes it like Dubya…

I defer to Larry on anything having to do with the School of the Americas. But in any case Bush and Cheney didn’t graduate from there.

No, what I mean is that things were done here with the approval of Congress and the cheerleading of “the press” and yes also with the seal of approval of the majority who reelected Bush&Cheney in 2004 when it was well known what was really going on. So, the judicial system should put everyone there under investigation: executive and Congress. You know, when the military juntas were brought to trial in South America, the stink went all the way down and around in ranks and complicity (church for ex.) ; and so yes, the juntas were
tried in places like Argentina but then everyone else claimed they were following “orders” and the “ley del punto final” was settled upon for the sake of the country “moving on” … It was BS and to this day many are still free or fighting extradition and further prosecution.
My point is that it is way too easy for all of us to focus on “Bush&Cheney”
for sure they were at the head but they would have never been able to go ahead without the enablers in power whose JOB was to put the brakes. At the end of the day those people did just as much harm.

So, what I say is that what happened here was much worse precisely because it was supposed to be a democracy. You want trials? You need to bring them all on: Bush&Cheney alone are an easy target but if that’s all you focus on then from where I sit that’s just a gimmick. You have to open the whole thing up and give it to the judiciary or a special human rights commission. Not a presidential or congressional one (that’s a joke).

And the human rights commission needs to go much much further back and ask the tough questions. People are now “horrified” the mastermind of 9/11 was waterboard. For sure condoning torture is a dangerous road and there should be no excuses for doing so. Except I know a lot worse ( electrical picanas on genitals and dropping pregnant women alive) was done to tens of thousand of innocent people by the military juntas in South America. And so I ask again: who train them in such techniques? And where were all those crying foul now then? Crickets…

Correct. Open the whole thing up and let the chips fall where they may. Let the Abu Ghraib trials be an example of how NOT to handle things. Those who sent the order need to pay the price, not just the foot soldiers.

That’s not the point. Noone is areguing against going after Bush and Cheny: the question for you is why just those 2? And Congress? Read my 2 comments below.

Agreed; absolutely.

The question is how can the judiciary do so without being blocked by Congress or the Executive? (or why doesn’t it do it?).

Crap, I’d rather just take every freaking congressperson and the supreme court, higher courts that backed all this sh#t, and all those in both the bush and BHO executive branch and put them all in jail without a trial. Hey, precedent’s on our side in this. & If we accidentally put a couple of innocent ones in jail, so what, they call mistakes like that collateral damage and reckon it perfectly acceptable against everyone else.
Oh yeah, and they’re not “enemy combatants” anymore; just read the other day now we’re supposed to call them “unprivileged belligerents”: these guys can be the overprivileged belligerents. Instead of holding them in Guantanamo, we can put them in a big pen at Martha’s Vineyard.

I don’t know if it’s a question of whether they can’t or won’t. Either way the odds don’t look good. But I cling to my idealism

I’d love for you to be wrong too, because then I’d be wrong…

What horrifies me is that all the focus on waterboarding, while an abhorrent practice, distracts from an even greater injustice: how Guantanamo and Baghram, etc., are depositories for many innocent individuals who have been sold to the Americans for a bounty by rival tribesman, corrupt intelligence operatives and just plain greedheads. We’re talking about a US government sanctioned human trafficking operation. Ghastly.

I agree. They all had a hand in everything that happened, this is just more divert and distract BS. There is no way they’re going to put Dick Cheney or Bush in prison. If that’s what people think they’re a few fries short of a happy meal.

They’d have to put an awful lot of people in prison. I’m tired of all the divert and distract nonsense from both sides. It isn’t accomplishing anything. I want to get back to our country. Start fixing all the messes, not sit back while more are being created, because I’m too busy worried about what the last guy was doing while the new guy is doing the exact same thing and worse. Doing nothing but pointing fingers.

“Sensationalism” would be my guess. It’s a catchy soundbite that’s
easier that the effort it would take the media and society to deal with the incarceration of human beings without due process….that’s how totalitarian regimes start. Now, can you imagine what would happen if the son or the daughte rof a “congressperson” is incarcerated for a few more hours without charges and due process inside the US? Or mistaken by someone else?
How big of a scandal would then that be?

would that be big pen or pig pen..

Here, here! The greatest enemy to this country right now is our own Congress and the Socialist-In-Chief in the White House.

a big pig pen

They are moving Capital Hill to Marths’s Vinyard?

I still say that given our present experience and the past 8 years—anything that will keep Washington busy and distracted in the past will help to save our future. Washington is totally incompetent and incapable of helping the American people or promoting the general welfare.

Unfortunately, Docelder, you are right.

OK, first a little sarcasm: I wonder if the Taliban holding the U. S. serviceman as prisoner will seek a legal opinion from a Mullah to exempt him from Geneva protections and employ enhanced interrogation techniques. After all, our country believes torture works, and it is about their national security. And they’ll have to hold him indefinitely, or else he’ll return to the battlefield. Funny, not.

Got you thinking now? Our thoughts and prayers go out for him and his family.

For the infantry, every patrol is a ticking time bomb of booby traps, mines, and ambush. That is why the military is the strongest supporter of Geneva, because unlike some lawyer in a Washington DC office, they are most likely to become a prisoner.

Torture is a war crime and a resulting death is murder. Bush/Cheney and their lawyers attempted to make it sound moral and legal. If we are only going to be forward looking, then let everybody out of jail.