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Exposing the Lack of Fiscal Sense in Obama’s Fanciful Health Care “Plan”

Obama’s health care plan is losing support because its avowed premise of saving costs makes no sense to an increasing number of Americans suspicious of too many new federal programs in the midst of a highly unstable economic environment.

Let’s take one Obama promise: He claims that the proposed federal plan will benefit financially because we’ll all save money when the formerly uninsured won’t need to go to emergency rooms any longer for every ailment. Supposing that’s true, how does money that’s not spent somehow end up converted to money earned? The money saved won’t be converted into government revenue. Money not spent at an ER in Indianapolis or Spokane or Albany isn’t going to be collected and dropped off in federal coffers. (Or am I missing some step here? Please refute me if you think I’m missing something.) Take the story of a hospital in Massachusetts, which has had a mandated health care plan for all citizens since 2006:

A hospital that serves thousands of poor residents sued the state last week, charging that the 2006 law forces the hospital to cover too much of the expense of caring for the poor. The hospital, Boston Medical Center, said it faced a $38 million deficit in this fiscal year and will lose more than $100 million next year because the state has lowered Medicaid reimbursement rates and changed other rules.

Aha! These government plans are stripping hospitals of needed reimbursements and, in the case of the proposed federal plan, I have a hunch will dump the bill on each state’s Medicaid and other health assistance plans, piling on bigger deficits for already cash-strapped state budgets.

Above, I quoted from a Chicago Tribune editorial, “Got an aspirin?,” which uses the example of Massachusetts’ health care plan to demonstrate how much a well-intended plan can suck up government money and add greater burdens on health care providers, and how the plan’s administrators are backtracking on major components of the 2006 plan:

House Democratic leaders trotted out their $1 trillion-plus health-care plan last week, including all sorts of ways they hope to control costs . . . much later.

But first, they say, all Americans must be covered by health insurance.

For inspiration, the Democrats borrowed heavily from Massachusetts’ pioneering 2006 law, which did much the same thing: It mandated that everyone be covered, imposed fines on those who refused to buy insurance and offered subsidies for those who couldn’t afford it.

Massachusetts also punted on any notion of taming health-care costs.

Before lawmakers in Washington start dickering over a final Massachusetts-like plan, they might want to ask: How’s it working for Massachusetts?

Got an aspirin?

Health-care costs are so out of control in the Bay State that the governor just cut coverage for some 30,000 legal immigrants to close a growing deficit. That should save the state about $130 million. The state is also banking $63 million by no longer automatically enrolling low-income residents in health coverage if they fail to do so themselves.

[...]

Beyond the budget crisis, there is evidence that the state mandate for all residents to buy insurance isn’t working exactly as planned either.

One major insurer, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, reports that there has been a spurt in the number of people who buy coverage for a few months at a time, run up high medical bills, then dump the policy after the treatment is finished and the bills are paid by the insurer. The state tries to discourage that, but apparently the penalty for not having coverage is too low — about $1,000 — so people game the system. That deprives insurers of the premiums they need to pay bills and drives up costs of premiums for everyone else.

If the mess in Massachusetts isn’t enough to sober Democratic leaders, then how about the assessment of Congress’ chief budget analyst? On Thursday, Congressional Budget Office chief Douglas Elmendorf warned that the House Democratic health plan and similar measures still in Senate committees do not propose “the sort of fundamental changes” necessary to restrain the soaring costs of government health programs. Just the opposite: They make red-ink budget projections worse. …

Yes, yes, yes. We need to do something about health care in this nation. And, yes, yes, yes. No plan is ever perfect, and flaws can be found in any plan.

But, given the current state of our national deficit and failing economy, as well as high unemployment, we need to stabilize the economy and get more people back to work first. Then, and only then, we can carefully study various systems and work out an efficient and fair health care system that is supported by a stable economy.

  • masslib

    Congress is set to pass a national MA plan. I keep trying to sound the alarm bells about our craptastic health care system here, but no one listens. However, I disagree with you on one point. I do think a big ole Government plan is what would actually reduce costs. it’s called Medicare for all. It’s where you eliminate the middle man and have the fed’s act as the single payer. It’s what every other OECD country has, more or less, and in totality, it costs half of what we pay with far better outcomes.

  • BARB

    Recently, the lie has been repeated over and over that all those w/o health insurance have to go to Emergency Rooms. I never paid much attention to rhetoric…just made the presumption that this was true…however…I find that there are “safety-net” hospitals for the uninsured as well as and clinics which do treat non-emergency patients on a sliding scale basis…based on income. Why is no one talking about this? Why not provide these medical facilities with additional funding…instead of trashing the whole medical care system and putting the US public in debt to the tune of trillions of dollars. At the clinic here in MN, an appointment was made for an acquaintance for the next day for a non-emergency consultation…which included blood tests along with general exam, and the grand total for the visit was $20.00.

  • tzada

    If Universal Health Care is wanted why not do this.

    Set up Government doctors offices. Require individuals to once a year have a complete exam, which may catch things that go awry soonest. Have charges free or low. Or based on net worth. Or have doctors and nurses give pro bono exams.

    Set up hospitals, free.

    Require each person to be a citizen of the USA. No short BC accepted. Long forms only.

    People can always opt out if they have their own insurance policy.

    Set up a random board made up of citizens drawn out of a hat to form this board to draw up suggestions from “we the people.”

  • tzada

    From an email I got today.

    Call To Action

    STOP Government Run Health Care –
    Call Blue Dog Democrats Today!
    (numbers below)

    The President likes to say that the “Status quo” must change on health care . The fact is that the status quo is the government and insurance companies in charge of health care spending and it has gotten us where we are today. Yet the President wants to give MORE power to these same groups! How does that change “the status quo”?

    The House of Representatives needs to hear form you this week so they know you want to Stop Government Run Medicine.

    House Bill 3200 will:
    1. Create a government run insurance program that likely will add over 100 million people onto the backs of taxpayers (Lewin Group).
    2. Mandate that everyone buy over-priced health insurance that is created by politicians and lobbyists – a huge profit gain for insurance companies. It is estimated that insurance costs will GO UP by up to 95%. This plan has failed in Massachusetts where there are still 2.6% uninsured, premiums have gone up at rates higher than the rest of the country and the state is now spending an additional $1.5 billion in taxpayer money on health care!
    3. Create government rationing that will allow insurance company profits to grow and allow government to avoid paying benefits (Campaign for Liberty).
    4. Create government committees that will tell doctors what medical tests and treatments they CAN and CANNOT order and punish them financially if they don’t “comply” (www.doctorsforpatientfreedom.com).
    5. Prevent you from buying private insurance that is not “government-approved” after 2013 (page 16 of bill) http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00351.
    6. Create a massive bureacracy that will interfere in the relationship you have with your doctors.
    7. Add to the national debt and increase government spending by at least $1.5 trillion over ten years!
    8. Cut spending for Medicare patients by $400 billion over ten years!
    9. Force seniors to attend “counseling sessions” about alternatives for “end of life care”, or more often if they get sick (House bill, p. 425-430).

    Already Congress has defeated amendments that would have prohibited a) the government from interfering in the practice of medicine and that b) would have prevented insurance plans from being required to pay for abortion benefits -even if you don’t want those benefits.

    There are better ways to drive down health insurance premiums: put money and power in the hands of individuals and create real competition. Give them tax benefits to buy health insurance outside of work – not just from their employer. Allow them to buy lower cost insurance from another state. Allow the natural growth of tax free health savings accounts and high deductible health plans so insurance is used rarely in your life- not every time you see a doctors. That will allow patients to demand more time from their doctors and have the doctor explain why tests and treatments are worth spending money from their own accounts. The poor and the sick who have can’t find health insurance CAN get help from the government and charities and that will be more affordable for taxpayers. Sadly, the status quo won’t change under Congresional plans – the status quo will be made worse as the same government and insurance companies that created our problems are given even more power.

    Please call the following representatives today and let them know:
    1) NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE- No indvidiual mandate – No public option.
    2) VOTE NO ON HR 3200 and empower individuals – not government and insurance companies.
    3) NO RATIONING.

    REPRESENTATIVE

    DC PHONE

    DC FAX

    EMAIL ADDRESS

    Baron Hill (IN-09)

    202-225-5315

    202-226-6866

    http://baronhill.house.gov/IMA/issue_subscribe.shtml

    John Barrow (GA-12)

    202-225-2823

    202-225-3377

    https://forms.house.gov/barrow/webforms/issue_subscribe.htm

    Bart Gordon (TN-06)

    202-225-4231

    202-225-6887

    http://gordon.house.gov/contact/contact_form.shtml

    Jane Harman (CA-36)

    202-225-8220

    202-226-7290

    http://www.house.gov/harman/contact/email.shtml

    Jim Matheson (UT-02)

    202-225-3011

    202-225-5638

    https://forms.house.gov/matheson/contact.shtml

    Charlie Melancon (LA-3)

    202-225-4031

    202-226-3944

    http://www.melancon.house.gov/index.php?

    Mike Ross (AR-04)

    202-225-3772

    202-225-1314

    http://ross.house.gov/?sectionid=77§iontree=7677

    Zack Space (OH-18)

    202-225-6265

    202-225-3394

    http://space.house.gov/?sectionid=61§iontree=2661
    Sincerely,

    David McKalip, M.D.
    Chairman, Florida Taxpayers Union
    Chair, Council on Medical Economics, Florida Medical Association

  • ces

    When I’ve had to go to a “clinic” here in North Texas, with simple blood test and flu test (nose swab), and consult the grand total was over $150.

    And that is WITH BCBS insurance.

  • ces

    If we want to reduce costs, make simple routine checkups and basic visits (flu, cold, etc) free. It’s when we can’t afford to get checkups to catch the “big stuff” early on that we run into trouble.

    Make prevention more accessible. Then if you can afford insurance, you can get more and better care.

    Not a simple topic to fix…

  • Texas Playwright

    Thanks, Susan. I believe We the People, with common sense, can infuse these reality-deficient Congress people with some workable plans.

    I’m all putting that Dimwit slush fund for 2010 elections into jobs, homeowner relief right now, and then when the economy stablizes, work more on health care. Jobs first, and a roof over one’s head.

  • Texas Playwright

    Oops, I’m all FOR putting that Dimwit slushfund…

  • doctorate

    Our “healthcare” system does not need an overhaul; the insurance industry needs to be better regulated in such areas as access to health insurance, portability of policies, coverage of pre-existing conditions, transferability among the states, and anything else that will foster more efficiency and better competition.

    The written policies provided to consumers by health insurance companies should be more comprehensible and transparent such that it is clear up front what is covered and what is not, and so that informed consumers can better shop around when enrolling. More and more companies are springing up that offer reasonably priced major medical policies at a couple of hundred dollars a month or so, depending on age, gender, and location. Everyone should have the opportunity to acquire at a minimum this type of policy, if desired. No one should be forced to purchase insurance, however, as long as more and more walk-in clinics, especially in urban areas, continue to be available. Some of these could potentially be government subsidized.

    Combining the above with moderate and reasonable tort reform that caps medical malpractice awards – as well as with another look into pharmaceutical-company pricing practices – and we could have a near perfect system. Patients the world over would continue to travel here to take advantage of such a system.

    Obama is trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer again, and he has sent Congress out to pick up the tool at a high-end hardware store likely run by one of his Chicago buddies.

  • jwrjr

    Ozero wants to grow up to be Big Brother. With the DemoLemming Congress that never actually reads the bills that they vote for he may manage it. God help us if he succeeds.

  • Craig Della Penna

    We have to keep pounding away on the central point: single payer, single payer, single payer.
    It’s the only change that will work.
    Any solution that preserves private insurance funding is doomed to failure because no health care system can support 20-30% profit margins
    We might try a quick ‘n dirty solution: take the age limit off Medicare, wait five years, adjust as necessary.

  • Peggy Sue

    I think the Massachusetts plan/problem is a perfect example of needing details ironed out and thought through before major “reform” [I use the term loosely] is undertaken. I read the article on Boston Medical that you cited, Susan, and immediately thought uh-oh–this is trouble city.

    Three-quarters of the American public want reform to make medical coverage more accessible and to reduce the ridiculous nature of ever climbing premiums and reduced coverage. Anyone who has read a hospital bill recently knows the games in the system are off the charts. Insurance companies, pharmeceuticals and ambulance chasers all need a come to Jesus moment. It’s obvious they’re not going to come to that moment on their own. And I don’t see any willingness on Obama’s part to do it. In fact, I see a clear lack of leadership in this regard. Last night’s press conference was same old, same old–the charming but vague answers that instills no confidence whatsoever.

    Though it might be persnickity to talk about money, people want to know exactly how we’re going pay for this and how much that tab will be.

    For myself, I go to a local clinic for routine care. I’m covered under BCBS and the fees at the clinic are reasonable. But I’m also fortunate. I’m very healthly. My husband, on the other hand, has his own physician and several specialists he sees regularly because of chronic diabetes and gastrointensional problems. My point being is that one size does not fit all. Pretending it does is only asking for trouble.

  • ccwarrior72

    Obama the bad businessman. He spends almost 1 million dollars to avoid showing a $20 dollar long form birth certificate. psst Mr. Obama you could have save yourself $980,000 just by showing your long form birth certificate. Guess it’s worth hiding huh?
    They say the birthers are nutty, it’s not the birthers spending 1 million to hide their long form certificate so who’s really the nutty one?

  • Lily

    Although I could probably live with single payer health insurance, doctorate’s prescription above sounds better to me. Reform or regulate the insurance industry along with the other adjustments mentioned. Hopefully, that would eventually get rid of most of the worst greedy vultures. It seems, also, that Congress could adjust the system to encourage non-profit health care of all kinds. I am old enough to remember when hospitals were run by kindly nuns and nurses and doctors and not accountants and social scientists.

  • Chicago Joe

    I can go to a health clinic in Walgreens or CVs and pay $30 for a physical. They are open to anyone.

  • http://www.homestudioessentials.com/ A-Nony-Mouse

    It amazes me that some Americans work so hard against their own self interest.

    President Obama made the great point that the health insurance industry is making record profits and premiums continue to sky rocket even when our country is in a recession.

    The fact is that every other Western country in the world has a universal health care plan and every single one of those countries has better health care outcomes than we do while spending less money.

    This is not some experimental untested idea. This has worked all around the world and it will work here too.

    And no, we are not “rushing” into health care reform. We are 61 years late. Harry Truman called for universal health care in 1948. Let’s finally make it happen.

    Stop fighting against those who are trying to help you.

    Start fighting against the lies of the health insurance industry and their paid for politicians (ie: Republicans.)

  • http://www.homestudioessentials.com/ A-Nony-Mouse

    I recommend we all call those congressman and demand that they DO vote for the public option! It’s time to turn around the lies of these disgusting greedy insurance companies around on them.

    Thanks for that list. I will be sending it to all of the Americans who are tired of the lies of the insurance industry.

    Right now this is not a battle of Republicans vs. Democrats.

    It’s a battle of the American people vs. the health insurance industry. I know what side I’m on. Do you?

  • Lily

    This prescription sounds good except I believe that some elements of the health care industry, such as radiological and pathological and laboratory services, have outrageous profit margins which add a huge and unfair cost burden to the system as a whole. I don’t believe they are any more entitled to this degree of profit than the local utility would be for providing the water that comes out of my tap or flows down the sewer.

  • Karma

    Never heard of the clinics in the stores before so I checked where they are locally.

    In CA, CVS only has clinics in the LA and San Diego areas and Walgreens doesn’t have any in the state.

    It kinda goes along with idea that insurance should be for major medical only and minor stuff like check ups should be out of pocket in these type of clinics.

  • Carmen

    Not to beat a dead horse, but the Obama’s, Michelle included could give less of a shit about your health care. This is about power. Power over your life from cradle to grave. To make you put every aspect of your life on a government computer, and “ask” them for your every need.
    It is just now coming back to the fore, but I have been talking about this for a long time. If they “care” so much then why did Michelle when she work for Univ. of Chicago Hospital hire (guess who) David Axelrod to do PR to build a patient dumping scheme to get poor south side people OUT of the hospital and bussed off to a clinic somewhere.
    The plan designed by her and now Obama advisor Valerie Jarret, and Axelrod.
    An invenstigation is under way, and possible federal funding for the hospital will be cut off since they ARE NOT treating the poor uninsured as all of the money Michelle and Obama got for them is for that purpose.
    When I forced Huffington to put this comment on their health care debate a few weeks ago, they banned me for life!
    Wonder why?

  • Karma

    So if Obama is working so hard against the health care industry. Why are they the only ones at his table? And why was single payer literally thrown from the room?

    You can believe the lies out of his mouth but his actions say something else.

    Now would you like to explain why Hawaii (universal for children) and Mass has to drop coverage if this is such a great way of doing things?

  • tango

    What I find disgusting is your belief that any plan put forward is the right plan just because it supposedly solves the problem and is pushed by Democrats!

    I may want lower crime in my city. So does that mean if the local government introduces a bill that says they can lower crime by hiring more officers but to do so requires increasing property taxes 50% and laying off 25% of the firemen, that I should just say Great, that solves the crime problem and vote affirmative? Duh. Just because a bill is put forth attmepting to solve a problem, doesn’t mean it’s the RIGHT bill or RIGHT solution.

    We all think reform is needed. But to just assume that whatever is coming out of Washington DC is the right answer without analysis is wrong and dangerous.

  • pm317

    This is not some experimental untested idea. This has worked all around the world and it will work here too.

    What a load of crap but will work for a numbskull like you. Read the fucking bill. The devil is in the detail. Tell us how it goes after the health insurance industry.

  • Surfered

    As a small town CPA, I see the books of many small businesses. Their health insurance premiums have risen 10% per year for the last 5 years, faster than revenue growth, faster than wage growth. The increase in cost is unsustainable.

    The smaller the size of the pool, the higher the premium. One bad experience and the premiums increase. One client’s secretary had breast cancer, requiring a lumpectomy and radiation. Despite non-recurrence, her premium was raised to $1,400 per month. Her salary was only $3,000 per month. Without her long-time employer, she would go uninsured.

    I am constantly surprised how many and who go uninsured. I know of two sole-practioner lawyers in their 50′s who go uninsured due to the cost of the premiums for one self employed person.

    In an attempt to reduce the cost, the other small businesses increase the deductibles, the co-pays, and the amount the employee must pay for their dependents. As a result, most employees cannot afford to pay for their dependents and they go uninsured. The same is true for your local, city and county governments.

    There has been a lot of criticism about the proposed plan, some of it justified, but I hear of no alternatives being offered, only scare words.

    It’s scary enough out there now. Something has to be done.

  • hokma

    There are many doctors who are now informing and warning their patients against this so-called healthcare reform and the reality of what will happen to their care.

    When Congressmen talk about only taxing those with incomes over $250,000 to cover this, they do not tell you that it includes small business people whose business makes that much and the profit they take home is far less.

    Congress peoeple who end up voting for this healthcare bill will find themselves in grave danger of losing their seats to real voters.

  • Docelder

    insurance should be for major medical only

    I think this also. But what we have instead is prepaid medical. What it does is make the insurance companies take a piece of the whole pie, prevention, medicines, etc. instead of just a piece of the major medical. One of the effects of this is people using the insurance because they feel they paid for it. Which of course they did. But that drives up the cost of medical and doesn’t improve care at all.

  • Ginger

    No one who works for the people has read the HealthCare Reform package. It’s over 1000 pages long. To the frustration of the Dems, Obama isn’t giving them any direction. He freely admits to not having read it. Probably for future deniability. Yet he is hell-bent on getting the POS passed.

  • Peggy Sue

    Mousie said:

    “Stop fighting against those who are trying to help you.”

    And who would “those” be? The insurance companies, the pharmacueticals? And where is the evidence that Obama and Pelosi have any intention of sitting on the corporate interests that created this debacle in the first place? Or are we to rely on the way they’ve made Wall Street march the straight and narrow?

    What a joke!

    This is where “hope” hits the wall. The truth is that the public has little faith that anyone in government right now is looking out for its interests. And looking at the track record, there’s ample reason for that lack of faith–a string of broken promises from both the Left and Right. Until Obama can at the very least articulate a credible vision for reform, complete with details and dollars and cents info, you better expect push back.

    We lived with “Mission Accomplished” for 8 years. There’s no way I’ll accept a friendlier version of the same thing, simply because it has a “D” stamped on its butt.

    And stop talking to people like they’re moronic children. We don’t need a nagging parent in this fight. We need leadership. The POTUS needs to step it up and stop relying on the damn campaign model. Because what he did last night does not wash and will not work.

  • b mathews

    since this bill will affect every man, woman and child in the U.S.,there should be a public forum (not one of obamas one-sided townhall meetings)explaining what the bill really entails.and the public should be voting on this..not the politicians. obama admits he hasnt even read the bill which is why he just rambled on last nite and gave no specifics..just more of the same bs.

  • Andy

    During the primaries Hillary said: give to the uninsured americans the SAME plan Congress has: open it up as a choice for them. That was reassuring !!
    ObamaCare? Not so much: Congress people themselves would NOT sign up for it!
    Listen to Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) saying he won’t use ObamaCare if it passes.
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/22/video-nadler-wont-use-obamacare-if-it-passes/

  • Andy

    How will it be paid you as? More taxes on teh middle class: Obama officially retreated from his promise not to tax the middle class (watch my lips?). He will.
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/23/video-obama-officially-retreats-on-zero-tax-increases-for-middle-class/

  • Andy

    you as —> you ask
    teh —> the
    watch my lips —> read my lips

    (sorry not enough sleep lately….)

  • Andy

    On keeping your private insurance:…yes but not forever.

    Obama’s response to bloggers about private insurance fueled a lot of discussions
    about whether or not people could keep their current private health insurance.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/21/obama_not_familiar_with_key_provision_in_health_care_bill.html

    Note his answer emphasizes keeping insurance but purposely sidesteps the issue of writing new policies — This is
    something the bill seems to be “forbidding” at least freely.

    In other words, yes in principle you could keep your current insurance but if you
    don’t have one or all of a sudden lose it momentarily (say you are out of work for a
    while) then I am not clear as to whether you can enroll again on a private one
    or have to go the the Gov. one.

    Note, the IBD article was incomplete and didn’t quote the section fully (hence it is incorrect) but the whole section of the bill is no more comforting:

    c) Limitation on Individual Health Insurance Coverage-

    5(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered
    health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after
    the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
    (2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in
    section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the
    definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent
    the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted
    benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance
    coverage.

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text?version=ih&nid=t0:ih:269

    Also read this:

    If you read further, you find out the bill would only outlaw individual private health insurance that is not participating in the Health Insurance Exchange. It’s right there:

    Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
    Now, this is still a really big deal: under this bill you could only buy individual health insurance products by going through the government and subjecting yourself to whatever terms and conditions the government mandates (mostly outside of the legislative process, mind you) for all such products. That is scary stuff. My friends and relatives on individual insurance are rightfully worried about this, especially given that the terms and conditions are not outlined in the bill, but left up to the new “Health Choices Commissioner” (whose explicit job it would be to limit your choices).

    And it is, of course, quite possible that these mandates will essentially leave you with little or no choice: all products may end up costing about the same and having about the same benefits. And many, most, or even all private insurers may decide they cannot earn a profit under the government’s conditions, and drop out of the individual health insurance market. All of this is possible, and scary.

    But it would not outlaw individual private health insurance.

    http://soundpolitics.com/archives/013108.html

    ON the defender’s side of this argument you can read this which is actually NOT reassuring, really (pay attention):

    SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

    (a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the
    succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable
    coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage’
    means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and
    effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

    (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT

    (A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the
    individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage (IE `grandfathered
    health insurance coverage’) does not enroll any individual in such coverage if
    the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

    ::: Further Explanation :::::

    Section 102 is laying out the requirements for Grandfathered Health Care
    Coverage. This means that the text refers to what an Insurance Provider must
    comply with in order to keep current plans from falling under the Bill’s
    requirements for Insurance.

    Your current insurance will not be required to meet the Bill’s policies as long
    as they don’t enroll new people, start charging you a lot more or change any of
    its terms or conditions.

    If for some reason you change insurance providers or re-work your insurance, the
    New Insurance Policy will have to comply with the policies and requirements of
    the Bill.

    (from:
    http://www.nowpublic.com/world/bill-does-not-make-private-health-insurance-illegal

  • Doc99

    A cautionary tale – TennCare’s Epic Fail.

  • Peggy Sue

    I agree, Andy. I made a proposition yesterday on another thread: Have all the Dem Reps and Senators, all the envoys and officials [high and low], the President and his family pledge themselves and their families health and welfare to the “reform” bill and all its murkey details. I understand even Bernie Sanders who has been pushing for the whole shebang forever isn’t willing to change his own coverage.

    But we’re the chronic complainers, the obstructionists, who aren’t willing to put our trust in the powers that be? Or worse, we’re all Republicans in disguise.

    Come on. The namecalling is getting lame and solves nothing.

    Just as a note, Susan Estrich has a short, pointed essay over at Rasmussen on the doubts [her own] about the bill itself and the way it’s being presented to the public. Estrich is well-known Democrat, a liberal. If you can’t sell her as a woman, a mom, then how do they expect the rest of us to march lockstep into this morass?

    The Dems are blowing it.

  • Peggy Sue

    TennCare was a disaster. It nearly brought the whole state down. So, it’s not like we don’t have examples where good intentions can go horribly wrong.

  • jbjd

    The fact is that every other Western country in the world has a universal health care plan and every single one of those countries has better health care outcomes than we do while spending less money.

    This is not some experimental untested idea. This has worked all around the world and it will work here too.

    Why do Americans so often try to invent the wheel, as if assuming, this is such a good idea that surely, no one else in the world would have thought of this, first.

    PBS has a great program on Frontline, called “Sick Around the World,” comparing and contrasting those universal health plans in Switzerland, Taiwan, Japan, Germany, and Great Britain.
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

  • tead off

    Harry Reid just announced that he is holding off on a vote for Healthcare until the Fall.

  • tead off

    No Craig — the word we need to keep in mind is rationing, rationing, rationing.

    My husband’s brother and sister-in-law live in England. He went to the doctor because he was bleeding badly from the rectum. No medical history was asked taken. If it had been he would have told the doctor that his father died of colar/rectal cancer. However, even if family history had been taken into account it is almost impossible to receive a Colonoscopy. Instead he was given an anti-biotic and told to go on vacation and forget it. He was dead 4 days later.

    Its about the rationing baby!!!

  • tead off

    The results of a brand new Fox News Polls shows that when asked which is the most important issue of the day 76% said the Economy–only 12% said Healthcare.

    Now in addition to Reid declaring that there will be no vote on Healthcare before Congress’s vacation–Pelosi has just announced that she will not take a vote before the recess.

  • WMCB

    Well that’s just dandy, but what is being proposed is not in any way shape or form what those other countries have.

    Read the damn bill. It does zero, zip, nada to address the obscene profits of the insurance companies. It actually creates a “firewall” to protect them.

    You know, the same insurance execs that have been regularly having secret meetings with Obama in the whitehouse. Sort of like Cheney did with the energy bill – how’d that one work out for the oil companies?

    Again, stop blindly believing vague statements of “intent” and slogans like “Reform! Hope! Change!” and READ THE DAMN LEGISLATION BEING PROPOSED.

  • masslib

    The public option is a sham. We need Medicare for All. The CBO predicts the pub opt will enroll only 0-`0 million people.

  • Andy

    I know what side you are on as well: big pharmaceuticals.

    Where in this bill is the Gov. regulation of the Pharmaceutical and Insurance companies ? Crickets…Because they are on the inside helping write this bill.

    Call me when your premium goes down while keeping the same level of coverage or better…

  • Anne

    That profit won’t be taken home anyway. It would have been operating capital to cover payroll. If it gets taxed, down goes the payroll.

  • Andy

    They don’t have the votes? Or they are reading the pols that say that over 53% of the public strongly opposes this? Or maybe they realize the American people deserve a fuller, deeper and better explanantion of what the hell is the bill about and to do so, Pelosi and Reid need to spend the recess READING the damn bill to learn themselves what’s in it; since neither they nor the president seem to know how to answer specific targeted questions by the public…

  • Nellie

    Masslib, I agree with you.

    However what no one seems to be understanding is the fact that “Obamacare” is in actuality an attempt to make GENOCIDE palatable and socially acceptable.

    Anytime you target a specific group in society for denial of health care and the resulting deaths, that IS a form of genocide.

    And to make matters worse, Obama is recommending “pain killers” in lieu of actual medical help. This video makes it VERY clear:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo

    So instead of medical care, the elderly are turned into dying drug addicts???

    Susan,

    I agree, We need to set priorities and fix some of the most pressing problems, like jobs and the security of knowing people can keep their homes.

    Then we can take time to eliminate the rampant corruption in DC which is costing all of us dearly in many different forms.

    After, we can look at the details of some of the single payer European Plans, and see which one is best for America.

    The outcry right now needs to be: “NO genocide of the elderly” and “If the plan is not good enough for congress to accept for their families, it is not good enough for the taxpayers who foot the bills.

    Just my thoughts.

  • http://noquarter foxyladi14

    i wouldn’t sign any thing i hadn’t read and understand.
    yet congress does it all the time.pityfull bunch.

  • Andy

    Indeed Peggy-Sue; I agree.

    I’ll look up Susan Estrich’s article. Thanks for the tip.

  • Hot Librarian

    American radiology. Firstly it costs a bomb to train up as a radiologist & a fortune to set up shop as a radiologist.

    A family member works for the biggest E-net imaging company which relays after hours radiology tests around from American hospitals /clinics to the world & after images are prioritised the images are interpreted by Us radiologists & diagnosis relayed back.

    An aneurism can be interpreted by staff ,prioritised to the radilogists & the diagnoses can be back in the hospital within 25 minues!

    The costs ae enormous . Every radiologist must be registered in 48 states. These offics are in smart countries -currently Sydney Australia & Zurich Switzerland -2 countries with high medical training.

    Thats how good American health can be & IS!!!

    My kid has spotted aneurisms as the image is downloading & red alerted several times & saved american lives.

    The insurance companies always pay up. It must be expensive but W O W !!!

  • tead off

    surfered –If Obama wanted to cover those without Healthcare he could have covered all of them for about 29 Billion a year out of the Stimulus Plan. But Obama would rather create chaos instead–lets move 120 Million out of their Health Insurance. What could go wrong with that?

  • tzada

    Rahm Emanuel: House Will Vote On Health Care Before Recess

    White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel tells NPR he expects a vote on health care in the House “next week.”

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/24/rahm_emanuel_house_will_vote_on_health_care_before_recess.html

  • ccwarrior72

    Little off the subject worth mentioning

    Dr. Orly Taitz Esquire Takes The Obama Eligibility Question To The Steven Colbert Show , NPR And Others
    It’s NOT going away
    http://countusout.wordpress.com/

  • http://none JP

    I don’t understand how people can argue that Radiological Services are too expensive. Most of the lives saved today have something to do with our technological advances in imaging. Look at Natasha Richardson in Canada? In any rinkydink hospital in the US, the first thing they would have done is a CT of her head and she would have been saved. People argue that they want cheaper healthcare but don’t realize that we have the most expensive but BEST healthcare. You get what you pay for folks. Be careful what you wish for. Cheap will never be good. Our government runs nothing efficiently nor state of the art. Look at VA hospitals! What a shame that we treat our vets that way.

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