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The Ship of ObamaCare is Taking on Water

By Anita Finlay ("Ani") on July 24, 2009 at 4:01 PM in Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Obama Administration, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton

Peggy Noonan penned an opinion piece in today’s WSJ, Common Sense May Sink ObamaCare. I consider the source very carefully since Ms. Noonan found so much to laud in Mr. Obama’s candidacy last year. Today, her tune is somewhat different. She states:

This is big, what’s happening. President Obama appears to have misstepped on a major initiative and defining issue. He has misjudged the nation’s mood, which itself is news: He rose from nothing to everything with the help of his fine-tuned antennae. Resistance to the Democratic health-care plans is in the air, showing up more now on YouTube than in the polls, but it will be in the polls soon enough. The president, in short, may be facing a real loss. This will be interesting in a number of ways and for a number of reasons, among them that we’ve never seen him publicly defeated before, because he hasn’t been. So we may be entering new territory, with new struggles shaped by new dynamics.

His news conference the other night was bad. He was filibustery and spinny and gave long and largely unfollowable answers that seemed aimed at limiting the number of questions asked and running out the clock. You don’t do that when you’re fully confident. Far more seriously, he didn’t seem to be telling the truth. We need to create a new national health-care program in order to cut down on government spending? Who would believe that? Would anybody?

I may not agree with Ms. Noonan on much but I believe her critique here is spot on. She feels this plan will be stopped by American common sense. She points out that Americans getting clobbered by the economy

“are not in a chance-taking mood. They’re not in a spending mood, not after the unprecedented spending of the past year, from the end of the Bush era through the first six months of Obama. Here the Congressional Budget Office report that a health care bill would not save money but would instead cost more than a trillion dollars in the next decade was decisive. People say bureaucrats never do anything. The bureaucrats of CBO might have killed health care.”

The final bill, with all its complexities, will probably be huge, a thousand pages or so. Americans don’t fear the devil’s in the details, they fear hell is. Do they want the same people running health care who gave us the Department of Motor Vehicles, the post office and the invasion of Iraq?

Certainly no one can blame Americans for being cautious here, especially since so much spending has been rammed down our gullets so quickly and the results have been, shall we say, less than stellar. Further Ms. Noonan indicates that several intangibles will also throw a wrench into ObamaCare:

The human factor. As Ms. Noonan puts it there are “doctors throughout the country who give patients a break, who quietly underbill someone they know is in trouble, or don’t charge for their services. Also the emergency rooms that provide excellent service for the uninsured in medical crisis. People don’t talk about this much because they’re afraid if they do they’ll lose it…”

Fear of a mandated taxpayer funding of abortion. This is still a difficult issue for many. In her words, telling Christians “who believe abortion is evil that they not only have to accept its legality but now have to pay for it in a brand new plan, for which they’ll be more highly taxed. This is taking a knife to your own supporters.”

Lastly, the greater the government’s intrusion, the greater “educated people who are at the top of American life feel they have the right to make very public criticisms of . . . let’s call it the private, pleasurable but health-related choices of others. They shame smokers and the overweight. Drinking will be next. Mr. Obama’s own choice for surgeon general has come under criticism as too heavy.”

Under a national health-care plan we might be hearing that a lot. You don’t exercise, you smoke, you drink, you eat too much, and “the rest of us have to pay for it.”

Another fear is that this plan will involve health care rationing – particularly to the elderly. Same number of doctors and 50 million more insured? The math is troubling. More frightening is that no one understands how this plan will work. The White House cannot even explain it which tells us they don’t even know. While we certainly need a reform package, I do not have confidence in what is being offered. Back to the drawing board, ladies and gents. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

An article appears in the UK Telegraph today, wherein Gerald Warner makes the following comment:

Health care? Hillary must be laughing into her handbag: she was burning her fingers on this red-hot brick when Barack was still at law school. It is no longer Republicans who are the problem about getting this package through Congress: it is Democrats. Even the American left balks at a socialist scheme for health care that would have had Nye Bevan shouting “Hold on a moment!” Your brainchild, Barack – enjoy.

I’m not enjoying schadenfreude here, although who could blame anyone who did. I remember clearly how insulting the Obama campaign was to Hillary about her efforts on health care in 1993. They also degraded her health care proposals last year – which were better, simpler, cheaper and more sensible than what is now being offered. The point is, fixing health care is a “red-hot brick” and one cannot solve the problem on the force of one’s personality, nor can one solve it overnight.

Certain Democrats working to craft this plan have been heard to complain in the last few weeks that they are not getting enough guidance from the President on what he wants from them in this bill – aside from ‘get it done and make me look good.’ Well, that’s were actual leadership and knowledge come in. This is one area where a speech or a smile will not help.

RKStone

I think:
1. The majority of Americans want changes in our health care system.
2. The majority of Americans oppose the changes that the Democrats are proposing.
3. Republican lawmakers are opposed to any meaningful changes in our health care system.
4. In 1993, the majority of Americans wanted changes in our health care system.
5. In 1993, the majority of Americans opposed the changes that the Democrats were proposing.
5. In 1993, Republican lawmakers were opposed to any meaningful changes in our health care system.
6. Nothing will change in our health care system except prices will go up, insurance rates will go up and less people will be insured.

Ani

The problem is the changes are not well thought out — the bill is cumbersome, confusing and hasn’t even been read. Pretty goofy to put that before the American people, particularly at such a difficult time in our economy, and not have their ducks lined up in a row beforehand.

Lana

Just like the stimulus package

Ani

My sentiments exactly.

Clara

Ani, you’re right. It’s not well thought out because the focus is on the wrong things. There are many ways to reform healthcare but it can’t be done without spending a lot of money. People are waking up, I hope.

tead off

If Obama thought Healthcare was in crisis. He could have spent 29 Billion a year and covered all Americans who have no coverage. The first 29 Billion could have come right of the Stimulus Bill. But Obama is in Select Crisis mode. Jobs important but not until 2010. Healthcare vital but will be enacted in 2014. Whenever Obama wants something there’s a crisis–after he gets what he wants everything is fine until he wants something else.

Willy Lohman Obama the salesman in chief.

OMG

How’s this for starters. Pass it on.
As writer and author Larry Schweikart has chillingly documented, Obama’s monstrous “healthcare” Bill includes, among hundreds of other horrors:

Page 22: A mandate for the Government to audit the books of all employers that self insure.
Pg 30: A Government committee that will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
Pg 42: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!
Pg 50: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58: Government will have real-time access to an individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59: Government will have direct access to your bank accounts.
Pg 65: Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions and community organizations like ACORN.
PG 85: The Government will ration your Healthcare!
Pg 95: The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
PG 85: Specifics of Benefit Levels for AARP members – your Health care WILL be rationed.
pg 124: No company can sue Government on price fixing and there can be no “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.
Pg 145: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
Pg 126: Employers MUST pay for healthcare for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 149: ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8 percent tax on all payroll.
pg 150: Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k that don’t provide public option pay 2-6 percent tax on all payroll.
Pg 167 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5 percent of income.
Pg 170: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay).
Pg 195: Officers & employees of the Healthcare Administration (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.
PG 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.
Pg 239: Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
Pg 241: Doctors—doesn’t matter what specialty—will all be paid the same.
PG 253: Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc.—literally, the value of humans.
PG 272: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!
Pg 317-318: Government will mandate that hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 354: Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
PG 425: Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations for seniors‚Ä¶ end-of-life prodding.
Pg 425: Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
PG 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 429: “Advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
PG 430: The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
Pg 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services/Non-profit orgs. (ACORN Medical Services here?)
Pg 494-498: Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

tead off

Thank you for writing this. OMG This isn’t Healthcare its indentured servitude.

Please everyone contact your Representatives and especially the Blue Dogs. The Democratic Party is now the Right To Die Party. When Obama offered Change I didn’t think he meant changing everything this country stands for. Let this be his Waterloo not ours.
http://aol mp

i see all of these pages now which bill are you get all of this from because there are 3 bliis from the house and not a one sentors

tminu

WRONG! Americans do not want changes to health care that is already the best in the world…

They want to have insurance reform and ways for low income persons to get insurance. They don’t want to be financially wiped out by medical crises nor be blocked from medical care.

THAT is health insurance reform, Obama wants to CONTROL our very lives and deaths, and that is not what’s needed, it’s all under the guise of health care.

It would cost less than $30 billion to insure every single uninsured low income person in the USA, which the census puts at 17 million persons. Compare that to Obamas multi-trillion dollar ruination of American medicine!

http://ezinearticles.com/?Three-Basic-Parenting-Styles&id=744499 Northwest rain

NO THE AMERICAN IS NOT THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

The statistics of longevity and infant mortality put us way behind other leading “developed” nations.

We need SINGLE PAYER. But poop-face 0zero is too damned lazy to read. He wants to party and play.

tminu

89% of Americans are HAPPY with their health care.

Obama’s plan is eugenics.

Here’s something you never think of…after socialized medicine kills off those greedy 5%ers who use 50% of medical resources, why the population looks mighty healthy!

Obamacare would ration most severely to preemies, elderly, and sick people.
Jo Chgo

Do you realize that we include very low birth weight infants in our infant mortality stats, and many of the other countries do not? They don’t count them, because they are deemed “not viable” and therefore skew the infant mortality statistics.

U.S. infant mortality rates (deaths of infants <1 year of age per 1,000 live births) are sometimes cited as evidence of the failings of the U.S. system of health care delivery. Universal health care, it’s argued, is why babies do better in countries with socialized medicine.

But in fact, the main factors affecting early infant survival are birth weight and prematurity. The way that these factors are reported — and how such babies are treated statistically — tells a different story than what the numbers reveal.

Low birth weight infants are not counted against the “live birth” statistics for many countries reporting low infant mortality rates.

According to the way statistics are calculated in Canada, Germany, and Austria, a premature baby weighing <500g is not considered a living child.

But in the U.S., such very low birth weight babies are considered live births. The mortality rate of such babies — considered “unsalvageable” outside of the U.S. and therefore never alive — is extraordinarily high; up to 869 per 1,000 in the first month of life alone. This skews U.S. infant mortality statistics.

When Canada briefly registered an increased number of low weight babies previously omitted from statistical reporting, the infant mortality rose from 6.1 per 1,000 to 6.4 per thousand in just one year.

According to research done by Canada’s Bureau of Reproductive and Child Health, “Comparisons of infant mortality rates by place and time should be adjusted for the proportion of such live births, especially if the comparisons involve recent years.”

Norway boasts one of the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. But when the main determinant of mortality — weight at birth — is factored in, Norway has no better survival rates than the United States.

Thomas Sears

While your comment is cute….it is totally myopic. Ani and Ms Noonan raise some ‘spot-on’ issues. Our healthcare problems are not simple. In fact, it is ignorant to think there is any quick fix. And the comment that there are many of us who know of (can’t admit to doing this because, in case you didn’t know, it is a federal crime to give anyone a break) colleagues who try to give needy patients a break, is also a bullseye observation. A major point in this argument is that this legislation is an immediate and all-encompassing attempt to fix the problem but moving in this manner is horrendously expensive, leaves huge questions unanswered and has been guided by ‘big money’. It leaves the decisions for your healthcare in the hands of beaurocrats who have no medical expertise, worsening the problem of medicare as we know it now. Medicare is guided by mathematicians using formulas which have little relation to actual care and decision-making in medicine. In addition, the system takes little stock in actual analysis regarding proper care. Finally, it encourages the practice of defensive medicine which is actually a large factor in pushing up the cost of care.

Additionally the measures proposes do not address the ‘for-profit’ business of medical technology. This, on it’s own, is a huge problem. Companies deserve to be rewarded for medical advances and obviously, the consumer profits, but the costs, obviously must be passed to the consumer. The amount of these profits has not been addressed and goes to the basic theory of capitalism.

The model chosen by Obama’s cronies in this health care legislation is frightening. If you take some time to study…really study…the Canadian disaster, you would note that this proposal points us in the same direction. Believe me or figure it out for yourself….nobody gains from any socialized system of medicine as restrictive as what has been proposed.

If you actually have studied the issue you would already have realized that this proposal has huge adverse effects on ancillary personel who assist us in medical care (technicians, nurses, scientists, pharmacists, etc.). We pay these people to assist us in delivering this care to the patient. As beaurocratic decisions erode this relationship, the care of the individual patient will suffer immeasurably.

Finally, I raise a point which I alluded to above. I don’t believe there is a widespread, sweeping ‘fix’ to the complexities of the existing problems. The decision to push this process through without breaking it down, criticizing it, restructuring it, and building it back bit by bit I believe to be a very dangerous move and likely to lead to a result that the American public will very quickly regret.

Ellen D

I agree with you RKStone. And the deja vu will continue with the Dems losing seats in the next election.

Someone somewhere, somehow has to start up a single-payer system. It started with one province in Canada – a mid-western prairie province, and spread from there.

But if there isn’t a break somewhere in getting rid of this obscene profit in human misery the costs will keep going up until the weight will break the US economy.

We in business are in international competition with foreign businesses that have the government subsidizing their worker expenses by giving them health care.

jbjd

We in business are in international competition with foreign businesses that have the government subsidizing their worker expenses by giving them health care.

Yep; been saying this for years.

tminu

Health care? I can give you health care…rationed on-the-cheap care, kill off the real burdens, make you wait til you croak care, with old equipment and generic unimproved drugs and surly personnel…

Deincentive health care and you will get crap. Then you can happily call it health care for all!

Country First

Here’s a good link for finding out more about what’s in the health care bill and some information about the framers of the bill:

http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us

I don’t think anyone who really knows what’s in this bill wants this kind of health care reform.

Hadrianus

The empty suit is finally getting his say overdue-due. Thanks Noonan and every butt licking creature of her ilk, for recognizing way too late that their exists a vacuum at the top–the great egotistical wonderkin that squats in the oval office. There is no leadership from this president at all–very much like the great Oz–only smoke and light. (Off topic, can you imagine for a momment that a Kennedy, Clinton, or even a Reagan sitting on their hands while Iran dissolved into tyranny.) Just about everyone (except of course for the corporate candidate masquerading as a Democrat) realizes that single pay is the only way.
tminu

I disagree that single payer systems are any solution. The reality is there’s always a few very needy patients; 5% will use 50% of resources and that’s just the way it is. Can’t do anything about that *unless you’re barack then you just kill ‘em off with his eugenics plan*…
Where the savings come in to play is real insurance reform which requires involvement by the consumer. If the consumer has to shop care and prices, they will be vigilant for waste and fraud. As it is, insurance distances consumers from that and so prices remain high on both the end of the care and the insurer.

A publicly offered sliding scale insurance for low income American citizens, which still required a percent of fee payment by the consumer would remedy the apathy over cost, waste, and fraud.

If you’re going to pay $50 whether the hospital charged you $800 for 5 Tylenol pills or not, most people wouldn’t even examine the bill. If an x-ray costs you the same no matter where you go, you won’t care. Even at a simple level, consumer influence would drive the medical market to tighten up.

Ellen D

Sorry, I disagree.

I don’t think the average consumer is knowledgeable enough to doctor shop or hospital shop, nor do I believe they should.

This is a combination practical and moral problem. Yes, some people will use it more if it’s paid for but some people get Cancer and have Diabetes. I’m willing to give them my place in line as gratitude for being healthy.

tminu

How patronizing to imply that health consumers can’t match up services with bills or be vigilant for rip-offs whatsoever. The vast majority of hospital bills contain errors which never get corrected, yet that same consumer would balk if McDonalds charged them for an extra cup of coffee. The fact is they don’t look at the bills, and if the language were simple (as in INSURANCE REFORM) that level of waste and fraud would not persist. Also if average fees were published for comparison, consumers would know if they were paying something extraordinary. This is all part of insurance reform.

If you remove that critical component, i.e. the consumer’s scrutiny, from buying healthcare, there will be waste and fraud. Be it imperfect, a system which knows the consumer CARES about charges is largely going to be be less abusive than one that knows the consumer does not care.

We need insurance reform not health reform, that is a ruse for taking more control over our lives and giving us less quality of life in return.

Susan B. Athena

Helthcare costs were driven up by insurance. So I agree with you.
AZBlondie

Tminu, I agree…

I can come up with at least a couple of examples where insurance typically does not cover certain procedures, and costs have dropped dramatically over the years – while the quality / technology has improved greatly. Lasik eye surgery, tooth whitening, contact lenses all come to mind. In each case, the customer typically pays all or most of the costs out of pocket.

Obviously, that doesn’t work for expensive emergency procedures like heart bypass etc, but simple knowledge of the costs can help in making better decisions.

I didn’t like Obama’s ‘red pill, blue pill’ analogy because I don’t want the government deciding what medications are and are not available (just because one pill may work for 50% of people and another works for 30% doesn’t mean they are the same group of people!! Vicodin works for many people, but didn’t even take the edge off my husband’s post-surgery pain). But it would certainly give a person an incentive to at least *try* the less expensive pill first, and not the one with all the slick marketing fliers…

Personally, I would think there should first be an effort to sign up everyone eligible for the plans that are already in existence (studies show many who are eligible are not signed up!) and to encourage little mini-clinics where routine problems (ear infections, strep throat, pink eye, etc) are handled for minimal cost – often by Physician’s Assistants / Nurse Practitioners. As a parent of small children, those are 90% of my doctor visits. No reason someone with strep throat should be going to the ER!

At a MINIMUM, every consumer should receive the same statement of costs that goes to the insurance companies. I think that would be a HUGE eye-opener!

Mamatx

I have a proposal for Obama and the Dems in control of congress. This country has become so litigious and Americans need and deserve legal representation. It is our right and therefore should be provided by the government. We need National Legal Insurance!

Let’s model National Legal Care on the model that Pelosi and Reid and Obama came up with for healthcare. Let’s create government bureaucracies to oversee lawsuits, decide which ones are legitimate and set lawyer reimbursement rates. Of course, all positions on these boards should be filled by doctors and engineers.

Ferd berfle

Let’s create government bureaucracies to oversee lawsuits,

We don’t need it because we already have one in place–it’s called the Judiciary. Where I live, frivolous suits are thrown out with extreme prejudice.

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

oooh, good post!

I wonder how many of the Peggy’s out there have changed their tune realizing that they are the *rich* obama wants to tax for this huge health care over haul…

Ani

Ms. Noonan was another Hillary basher — now she wants to pretend she suffers short term memory loss, I suppose.
tyoholo

AGII,

Why don’t you write a post and tell us about your experience with the public system in Italy? How it compares with the U.S. Do you think it is better than the U.S. system? What can we learn or not learn from the Italians?

Add some value on something you may know about, instead of all these superficial comments.

http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

I don’t consider that a superficial comment, at all. People are backtracking fast on Obama. There has to be a reason/s. You don’t think that some people are realizing the tax burdens that are staring them in the face?

Doc99

Here’s a thought … All government workers including members of Congress and the Administration should be offered the “public option.” Put your lives where your mouths are. Any takers? Anyone? Bueller?

AZBlondie

I’ll take this one step further.. Members of Congress should be REQUIRED to take the ‘public option’. Goose, gander and all that…

boonies

Re Obamacare comes this punch line from -note well- DOCTOR Charles Krauthammer in today’s column…

“Didn’t Obama promise a new politics that puts people over special interests? Sure. And now he promises expanded, portable, secure, higher-quality medical care — at lower cost! The only thing he hasn’t promised is to extirpate evil from the human heart. That legislation will be introduced next week.
RIMSHOT!
Andy

Excellent post Ani. Thank you. You also point to a key point here:

More frightening is that no one understands how this plan will work. The White House cannot even explain it which tells us they don’t even know. While we certainly need a reform package, I do not have confidence in what is being offered. Back to the drawing board, ladies and gents. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

It is not abstract “fear” of change or wanting the status quo as PBO wants everyone to believe the underlying concern is.

It is plain and simple common sense reality: how can you get on board with something that not just you don’t understand but something the proponents are UNABLE to explain because they themselves have no idea of what the hell is in the details? How irresponsible is that?

Linda Anselmi

Ani and Andy, I absolutely agree!

Where is Professor Obama to explain the plan. The american people need to understand what the real problems are, know that their representative really understand the problem, then they might have confidence that the plan being proposed will address those problems.

Lily

“… so much spending has been rammed down our gullets so quickly and the results have been, shall we say, less than stellar.” Not to mention a President who has been rammed down our throats with similar results.

I suspect the Obama administration will take extreme measures to get this health plan approved. I see it as the one of the first steps in his puppeteers’ 8-yr plan to dissolve the USA into the NWO.

I guess Hillary Clinton as SOS is not in a position to offer much advice to these yokels, which is probably why she is SOS. Interestingly, several websites today reported that in her address to the CFR, she noted how convenient it was that the CFR now had an office just down the street from the State Department so that it would be easier for them to tell her what to do. Yes, she did actually say something to that effect. I don’t think she “mis-spoke” or was joking.

Scout

Lily,

Do you have a link? I’d like to check that out further. Thanks

Lily

http://www.examiner.com/x-9462-LA-Ron-Paul-Examiner~y2009m7d21-Hillary-Clinton-admits-CFR-Control-over-Government-Policy

Scout

I read the article because I knew nothing about the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations).

The comments are extremely racist and anti-Semitic. The site is the SF Examiner. I live nearby and was shocked by the comments.

Senneth

Scout,
I, too, was disgusted with the comments. I’m also amazed by this CFR information; I hadn’t realized something like this really existed, was so powerful, and had so much control over our country’s foreign relations.
Lily

And what link are you referrring to? Not the one posted which is not the SF Examiner, by the way. The link was originally found at a website called SpiritDaily, which is a website dealing with Catholic concerns and anything but anti-Semitic. There is nothing that even remotely deserves that epithet in this link.

What kind of a game are you guys playing?

jangles

What would it be like if we added up all the money spent on insurance in this country, medicare, medicaid and schip—divided that number by the total number of American citizens (maybe just use the 2010 census number) and then gave a voucher equal to that quotient to every man, woman and child in the US. They could use that voucher to buy health insurance, put it in a health savings account or buy membership in a community based health services clinic/hospital or just pay for their health care as needed, including wellness programs and health spas, or they could trade in a health exchange market. We could collect the amount of that voucher through a national health sales tax on goods and services— everyone would have to pay and the rate would be a flat rate on everything—except the rate could be doubled on items the FDA certifies contribute to health problems—like trans fats, corn syrup, sugar, tobacco products, sodas with sugar etc. The government role would just be to collect the health tax and distribute it to citizens. The amount of the voucher would be the same for every body.

tzada

Good ideas

jangles

Under my health reform plan the young and healthy could sell their vouchers on the health exchange and use the proceeds to pay off their college loans. The rich who really don’t need such a plan could give their vouchers away to the more needy and even get a tax credit as far as I am concerned.

We have to many middle men in the pie right now. We need a system that connects the health care consumer directly with the health care provider.

jbjd

Great idea! And we can set up a derivatives market in health care swaps!

Obama: Dubya’ 2 Electric Boogaloo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-tr9cJJKks

“The bottles stand as empty, as they were filled before
Time there was and plenty, but from the cup no more.
But I could not caution all, I still might warn a few
Don’t lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools

Ship of fools, on a cruel sea
Ship of fools, sail away from me
It was later than I thought, when I first believed you
Now I can not share your laughter, ship of fools”
Jo Chgo

Obama is showing us that he doesn’t give a rat’s ass about health care. Sure, all those whimpering fans at town halls create a nice tableau, and he probably does feel for the people. But there are several reasons why this is tanking (excellent post, by the way), including the following:

1) He has no idea how the health care system really works. His only exposure is Michelle’s job and a few episodes with his kids. Very superficial. And the U of C, where she worked, is the typical ivory tower in a very bad neighborhood (Hyde Park not withstanding, the encircling area is rough).

2) He offers nothing in the way of direction as he has very limited legislative experience. Doesn’t really get the process except superficially. Much of his Illinois legislation was crafted by Emil Jones and his pals, Obama just took the credit. And his brief dabbling in the Senate was not marked by any particularly brilliant legislative achievements.

3)His whole life people have told him how exceptional he is. So he thinks he just has to keep being exceptional. And he’s not.
DaddysDarlin

Just get it done and make you look good huh Obama? You are no leader and you are no president of mine. Most Americans didnt vote for you and still don’t want to see you in our White House. You are a disgrace to the American people, the Germans can have you.
Finally the MSM is waking up and seeing exactly what we have seen before that sham you called an election.
There is no way in hell the American people are going to pay yet another trillion dollars on a health care plan you cant even answer questions about.
You enjoy being on TV an awful lot don’t you? The fact is no one is listening!
You will lose this one, and the next one and the next. People are waking up, and frankly not liking what they see!
It’s about damn time.
Katmoon

Here is a good Puma Pac link on folks reading all 1000+ pages of HR 3200, and a couple of other links of the full text; I tried some, and I tell you it is insane in the numbering; a bit fishy as in hidden portions of this bill.

Sources:
http://pumapac.org/2009/07/23/hr-3200-good-plan-or-rubbish/comment-page-2/

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:1:./temp/~c111M052kc::

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/show
Cahil

Good article, Ani.

If Ms. Noonan would pull her head out of her overweight a** ( and I only say this to prepare her for what the Obumble health care plan would point out), she might have noticed a year or more ago that Obumble rarely answers anything coherently or with a modicum of truth.

If you take the incentive (being paid well for giving up your youth and working your butt off to become a doctor) out of being a doctor and increase the number of patients overall, someone please explain how fewer doctors with more patients makes for better care.

Here’s a man who admittedly hasn’t read his own health care plan and has more recently shown his penchant for speaking stupidly without the facts, and I’m supposed to trust his judgement? I don’t think so.
mary

Ani

Can we just say:

OBAMA’S TEACHABLE MOMENT is on the way?….
foxx

We need Obama’s health care initiative to fail.

The only thing that will work is medicare for all.
Clara

It is not just the number of doctors who will be in shorter supply. Think about the nurses who provide the actual care. Those same nurses are already in short supply and the shortage will reach crisis proportions before long.
fif

Once again, I agree completely Ani. The sad part is: we had a great opportunity for true reform, but we needed someone with deep knowledge and mastery of government machinations. Now Noonan & Co. are surprised that the novice narcissist can’t handle the challenge?

Noonan wrote: “He rose from nothing to everything with the help of his fine-tuned antennae.”

No, he rose quickly aided by political gangsters like the Chicago Machine, corporatists like Pritzker & Goldman Sachs et. al. and PR men like Axelrod (with the overwhelming complicity of the mainstream media like Noonan).

The tragedy is: he is going to blow this opportunity, and even if it passes, it is a mess. Then, the opposition can point to it and cry, “See–it doesn’t work!” It’s interesting to see this spoiled, vain man face defeat. He is already stunned that he is not getting his way: “This is not about me!” Right.
Gracie

It is painful to watch him attempt to shuck and jive his way through something serious and substantial. The razzle-dazzle is one thing when all you are doing is flying around and making promises, but it’s not going to see him through until even the end of the year. By then, all except the most juiced-up Obots will be completely on to him. He is merely the Dem’s George W.- albeit, in a “cooler” more politically correct package.
Babs

Both the Senate and House bills contain exemptions from the government plan for all federal employees. Hey, Congress, if you’re not buying it for your families, don’t come trying to sell it to me for mine. They are a disgrace.
OMG

Read the bill and be prepared to pick your jaw up off the floor.
Nancy Pelosi will bypass the committee working on the chamber’s health-care reform bill and put the legislation to a full floor vote by next week, Rep. Tom Price said Friday.

AZBlondie

And if this thing passes (so close on the heels of the Pelosi-engineered ‘Recovery’ pork package and the cap & tax monstrosity) I envision a loss of stunning proportions for Dems in 2010.

Since so much of this plan doesn’t truly go into effect until 2013, what are the provisions for repealing it once the the dems responsible are kicked out on their butts in 2010, and Obama is defeated in 2012??

KR

Obama was part of the obstruction in congress when he was a senator:

http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=JimsJournal.Detail&Blog_ID=9e161660-9cd2-5a8e-21d9-e0cfa0290212

Looks like he didn’t want some real reform, just this deadly health care bill.
http://firefox AnnieCollier

This is what we should be going after. How in heck can we get a law passed that orders government employees, President, Congress to have the same health insurance options as the rest of us? The fox is in charge of the hen house.

What happens when they turn 65? For everyone else, you are not allowed to continue your employer’s health plan; you must take Medicare or else. And note that I am not unhappy with the care I’ve had under Medicare and the supplemental plan I pay for to cover the rest. But when I see the reports of what they’ve paid my doctor and hospital, I wonder how he is able to keep me as a patient.
tyoholo

I could not disagree with this post more.

In the rush to critize Obama, Noonan and many of you at NQ are really not being very objective or frankly intelligent. I understand the hatred of Obama on this website, but can’t you get past Obama and actually think about the issue of healthcare. Are all of you so 100% satisfied with healthcare in this country? Its costs, the uninsured, its making the country uncompetitive, personal bankrupcies, etc. etc.

To say the healthcare bill is failing is a bit nieve. Far from it. There is a good chance it may actually get voted on next week and if not will come in September. The process has been started and will not die that easily.

Noonan just repeats the same standard talking points of the people that want the status quo ($1 trillion cost, rationing, etc.). Noonan has no particular expertise in what she is talking about and clearly defines her narrative very narrowly. Her arguments are not constructive and entirely based on fear (largely unwarranted fears). All of these talking points are entirely baseless or need to be put in the proper context.

Congress and the President have made great progress toward achieving comprehensive health care reform, but there remains some unfinished business before we cross the finish line with sustainable health system reform. It is also about getting a bill passed to start the reform process that will take many years. Nothing is written in stone and healthcare reform will develop over many years. If you are trying to kill the bill, you are basically for the status quo, which means you really do not understand the issues.

Almost all polls in the month of July suggest that the adminstration has broad healthcare support amongst the public. People want a public option, are willing to pay more for it, and want it now. I suggest you go read the polls at: http://pollingreport.com/health.htm And if some people are expressing skeptisim it is because of the attack machine, like NQ.

Why don’t you get beyond just quoting a few right-wing sources? I know it fits your critize Obama NQ narrative, but why trash healthcare reform in the process. This is a kind of once in a generation opportunity. It is sad NQ can’t put aside its partisan attacks. You are just becoming the same as every other right wing/conservative attack website. No real discussion of the issues, just attack attack attack and endless quoting of right-wing attack articles.

You like to quote Krugman when he fits your attack NQ narrative. Why don’t you read his latest column on healthcare.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/opinion/24krugman.html

Ferd berfle

You apparently can’t or won’t read. I’ve read a great deal of this POS bill and it reeks. You might try actually reading it and not some bs polling, which is irrelevant or NY Times prattle, which is disingenuous.

tyoholo

What are your main critisms of healthcare reform?

http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

I am one of the uninsured and I am sick of people bringing up people like myself and using us as a reason to blanket support this health care monster.

None of the plans I have heard floating about from Congress reassure me that I’ll get healthcare at a price I can afford. My biggest concern is that I’ll be FORCED TO PAY for health insurance I don’t want at exhorbitant prices or be fined or taxed if I don’t. Meanwhile, there’s never any guarantee that health insurance will even GET you the care you need – you could end up paying $500/month or more for insurance and then be denied compensation for a number of stupid reasons.

A lot of stupid people on the left, desperate for an Obama win on this, are dismissing any legitimate criticism of the health “plan” as being “scare tactics.” Or then there’s people like you saying “this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.” BS!! So you mean to tell me, we should accept a freakin’ awful health care bill just because this is supposedly our only chance?

If it IS our only chance, then we need to slow down and do it right.

I’d rather they did nothing than do what it appears to be they are planning at this point. This bill is only going to make matters worse, in my opinion.
Ani

Why do you have so much trouble comprehending the fact that a bill that is 1,018 pages that people do not understand and that Congress has not even read should not be pushed through without further careful consideration. It is not going into effect until 2013 — why the big rush. This reeks.

I’d love to have health care reform but these are the same boobs who pushed through a stimulus package that is not helping those who need it most. It is helping Goldman Sachs to get richer. Not the endgame I had in mind. Therefore, their batting average so far as lousy. Why would I trust this adminsitration on this issue either?

Obama himself has discouraged certain procedures and told people they might “be better off taking a pain pill.” How does he know? Is he a doctor now?

This gentleman has a bad habit of talking through his …ear when he clearly doesn’t know the facts. We saw that with the Cambridge incident the other day. We need an end to waste, we need insurance reform, we do not need more complicated bureaucracy, which is very intimiating to most people as it is.

Read Thomas Sears’ post above for some savvy commentary.

As a reminder — Krugman always felt that Hillary’s health care plan was far better than Obama’s and that his really didn’t hold water. Since they never use her ideas and cannot credit anything she suggested — what makes this so brilliant? Insurance companies have had big access to the WH — I can assure you this benefits them, not us.

What will you do to solve the problem of health care rationing since you have the same doctors and nurse but a lot more patients. As it is, my elderly mother has to wait weeks to see her doctor on Medicare.

As for killing the bill, I am very distrustful of people who say, ‘we know it doesn’t work but let’s pass it anyway and we’ll fix it later.’ This is bullsh*t. There is no rule whatsoever that says this cannot be worked on for another couple of months until they get it right and hear from the people truly knowledgable about health care delivery. I am very suspicious of people who don’t want to get it right just to pass anything to slap their name on the word “reform” for ego gratification.

If I thought this bill solved any probems, I’d be all for it — I’m not seeing that yet.

tyoholo

Why do you say there is a rush. The adminstration and members of the Republican party have been working on this for 6 months and many of the healthcare economists and experts have been working on these issues for years, the same people who are helping to craft the legislation. Obama’s team has had an outline of his plan for 3 years now, if not longer.

This is not a static situation. The concept is that legislation will start the ball rolling on reform and that reform will develop over years, once the basic framework is put in place.

What exactly would you be waiting for?

By the way Obama himself is not crafting the legislation. There are many many people involved, including the Republicans, as more than 150 of their proposals have been inserted.

By the way what is the difference between what Obama wants to do from what Hillary wants to do? I see no difference. What are the diffences? I suspect Hillary would have been met with absolutely the same resistence.

Your rationing argument is a bit thin. There is plenty of rationing already going on in the system.

The point is to get reform started. If there is “rationing” as you say, or more cost cutting needed, this will be worked on over time.

The $1 trillion cost is first of all being covered by potentially higher taxes (slightly higher) on the top 1% who have done very well over the last 8 years and a range of cost cuts. The latest CBO comment on the most recent propoals is that it will be deficit neutral and Obama himself says it has to be deficit neutral. $1 trillion over 10 years represents only 4% of the total expected healthcare costs over the period, so you have the other 96% of the costs to find cost cuts to cover the $1 trillion and cover another 50 million americans. It is doable.

A healthcare bill is about starting a process and not a static point in time.

If you do not understand that then I suggest you read up on the proposal being introduced called:

MedPAC, the expert advisory board to Medicare.

There are a many many really good things in the legislation what will really make a difference.

Just getting 50 million more people covered alone will be quite an achievement.

Most of the comments on here are not all that thoughtful and are all political or personal against Obama. Most people do not have a good grasp of what is actually being presented. Most of the comments are the old and tired talking points of the status quo. They are only about fear and not very constructive.

http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

“Just getting 50 million more people covered alone will be quite an achievement.”

No, it won’t. I am one of those 50 million and I do NOT want to be forced to buy insurance, which is what this bill will do – if I don’t buy the insurance THEY deem appropriate, I will be taxed at 2.5% of my income! And don’t lump me in with those people with unhealthy lifestyles – I don’t smoke, I’m at the perfect weight for my height, and I don’t need pills or medication.

It makes no sense for me to pay $500/month for insurance when I’d rather pay OUT OF POCKET for those few times I go get a gynecology check up. All I want is catastrophic coverage right now.

Don’t be using people like myself to push this stupid bill through. This is not a HEALTHCARE bill, it is an INSURANCE bill.

I don’t think forcing INSURANCE on people is the way to go AT ALL.

Ani

Comment by Kathleen Wynne | 2009-07-25 12:19:57 | Edit This

The best argument AGAINST this so-called health care plan is the fact that neither the president, Congress or federal workers have indicated that they anxious to change their present “private” plans for this great new government run plan.

This says it all.

And while we’re on the subject — you can refer to Peggy Noonan as “Right Wing” if you like, but she was positively drooling over your guy last year and was feeding a crap sandwich to any and all of his opposition. It is not our fault that she stopped drinking the kool-aid.

tyoholo

Not sure where you get that the president, Congress or federal workers are not anxious to change their plans… who exactly said that and why does it matter?

You do not seem to get the all the private plans stay in place and you would now have a “choice” of a public option. Nothing would have to change. And if you don’t like the public option then don’t take it, but at least people will have that choice and if the public option is cheaper and better than the private plans then in order to compete the private plans will have to get better.

You kind of lose all credibility as a commentator when you bring in juvenile words like “kool-aid” into your comment.

Peggy Noonan is clearly a right-wing commentator. Also she has is that she was a speech writer for Reagan.

http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

“You do not seem to get the all the private plans stay in place and you would now have a “choice” of a public option. Nothing would have to change.”

No, there is less CHOICE – if you have no insurance you will be FORCED to pay for insurance you may not want. This is NOT a choice.

There’s also a lot of other crap in that bill that is attempting to change a whole heck of a lot…adding a lot of burden to employers and doctors, and removing privacy for patients.

AZBlondie

I have heard numerous commentators state that there are provisions that REQUIRE that the plans that employers provide be considered ‘qualified’, and ANY change to a plan under which employees are covered woudl require them to be switched to a ‘qualified’ plan. ‘Any’ change would include changes to premiums, copays, benefits, etc – in other words, changes that typically occur EVERY single year. So yes, you might be able to keep your current plan for a year or so – after which you would be forced to change to a ‘qualified’ health plan.

Does anyone know if this is true? I tried to read some of the bill, but get headaches trying to understand all the legal-ese. I’m not sure who to trust any more…

Kathleen Wynne

I believe that for obama to expect to push such major health care legislation down the our throats, he must, first, lead by example. Why should we be expected to accept this plan which no one has read (even obama doesn’t know all that’s in it) and accept it as what’s best for us?

In fact, I think if he wants this health care plan to be taken seriously, he should first mandate that Congress all federal employees must be expected to use it. After all, it’s so much better than the present health care system.

tzada

Well insert hoof man, has his good friend Zogby, from Zogby polls to start demonizing “boomers” Yes, the same boomers that him and his minions want to let die. He conducted his “poll” and guess what? Boomers are consumers! Last time I looked buying and selling and making money is a good thing. hmmmmm

What will be next for seniors the gas ovens? They already have a robot that eats dead flesh. Odd thing to invent. But can it really tell the difference between living and dead? hmmmmmmm

The other day CNN was doing it’s part. Across the bottom of the screen it said. “Baby Boomers are the cause of the financial crisis.” hmmmmmmm

Police, doctors and seniors, who will be next? Divide and conquer. An Arab motto. Is 0 an Arab or Muslim? Dunno, but the fact is he is tied to the Zogby brothers and they are. As far as polls go they can be manipulated, but then we knew this.

Who said “we will destroy America from the inside?”
Probably one of those evil, doctors or cops….but wait! I think it was that gray haired white man.
Patience

It cannot be squared that the POTUS is saying status quo spending on health care is unsustainable, yet the plans being hashed out in committees spend more.

I’m content with my health insurance. Many people are. But let’s face it — none of us like to spend money on healthcare — it’s not as much fun as spending for so many other things.

TV commercials being broadcast seem to focus on people who face bankruptcy due to medical expenses or people who can’t afford access to care. My suspicion is it would likely be cheaper to have a government program that offers emergency relief in the first instance and some kind of subsidy or tax break that would make premiums affordable for working people in the second instance.

The FLOTUS has been criticized/accused of patient dumping because of her job at UC’s medical center. But I think something needs to be done to stop the habit of relying on expensive ERs for primary care. This may mean more public health clinics (maybe they should be built close to ERs!?!?).

In the end, I feel there’s enough money for health care but it isn’t the priority it should be for politicians AND people in general. Politicans don’t want to do the hard work of eliminating wasteful/inappropriate government spending nor do they want to give up the power and control that Federal spending affords them — in order to be able to allocate more funds for people who truly need help with healthcare. After all, those people aren’t fattening their campaign coffers and so hold little sway over them. And many people who really can afford to would rather spend their money on something else than healthcare, rationalizing more and more that it’s an entitlement (she said, while ducking flying objects).
Carmen

Here is what Americans know that Obama and Rham and Axelrod, Pelosi etc. must think we are to stupid to figure out.
THE health bills coming out of Congress would put the de cisions about your care in the hands of presidential appointees. They’d decide what plans cover, how much leeway your doctor will have and what seniors get under Medicare.

Yet at least two of President Obama’s top health advisers should never be trusted with that power.

Start with Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. He has already been appointed to two key positions: health-policy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget and a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

Emanuel bluntly admits that the cuts will not be pain-free. “Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely ‘lipstick’ cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change,” he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).

Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, “as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others” (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Yes, that’s what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.

Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they’ll tell you that a doctor’s job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.
____________________
Rahm it through – house health-care vote next week (ALARMING points)
by DefendUSx July 24, 2009 12:35

Same strategy for the Obama administration – hurry it through before anyone can get a chance to effectively contest it (or read it).

Here are the main ALARMING points about the bill that you should take note of and make others aware of (friends, family etc.). Have them e-mail their Congressman with this list and verify it for themselves:

All American citizens being ordered to have a National ID Card (page 58)
US government to have immediate access to every American citizens bank accounts (page 59)
All property owned by Doctors in the US to be determined by government (page 317)
All American citizens ordered to give the US government power of attorney over their living wills (page 425)
The US government given a new power to determine who and how their citizens die (page 427)
End of Life plan for each American citizen ordered by the government (page 429)
US government to decide on who, and who can’t be married (page 489)

______________________
Executive Order 10450 In order to instruct investigating federal officials such as the FBI as to what is a violation of the oath of office under 5 U.S.C. 3331 and 5 U.S.C. 7311, Executive Order 10450 was issued to serve as a guideline for determining what actions constituted a criminal violation of the oath of office by federal officials. The order affirms the law of 5 U.S.C. 7311 that is a criminal violation under 18 U.S.C. 1918 for a member of the government, which includes members of Congress, to “advocate the overthrow of our constitutional form of government
___________________________
Obama’s Ezekiel Emanuel “Reinterprets” Hippocratic Oath Like the Original Nazi Doctors
____________________________
Here’s the key paragraph from Kennedy and Shrum:

We also need to move from a system that rewards doctors for the sheer volume of tests and treatments they prescribe to one that rewards quality and positive outcomes. For example, in Medicare today, 18 percent of patients discharged from a hospital are readmitted within 30 days–at a cost of more than $15 billion in 2005. Most of these readmissions are unnecessary, but we don’t reward hospitals and doctors for preventing them. By changing that, we’ll save billions of dollars while improving the quality of care for patients.

AND THE BEAT GOES ON!!!!!!!!!!!
Patience

Scary. I think more people would prefer the status quo especially since these proposals evidently fail to reach the stated goal of lowering overall healthcare costs/spending.

THOUGH, with an aging demographic, maybe that goal is inappropriate or dare I say disingenuous. With an aging demographic, maybe OTHER spending should be offset to account for changing needs.
Kathleen Wynne

The best argument AGAINST this so-called health care plan is the fact that neither the president, Congress or federal workers have indicated that they anxious to change their present “private” plans for this great new government run plan.

Bottom line, if this plan is good enough for the American people, then why isn’t it good enough for the guys in the federal government?

‘Nuff said.

Ani

Thank you, Kathleen.

That says it all: “Okay for thee but not for me” doesn’t pass the smell test.

Hilary wanted people to be able to opt in to the plan congress has — different, no?

Kathleen Wynne

Ani,

Hillary would have made all the difference! Hillary was truly the best choice for the American people and her proposed policies indicated as much, without question.

Unfortunately, the power elite knew that and were determined to get their puppet-in-chief, and were willing to spend half a billion and aided by the DNC and the MSM, cheat him into the nomination, which she actually won by popular vote BTW.

I will never get over it and everyday obama is in office, only assures me that I am right to be concerned for the fate of our country.

b mathews

this president is nothing but a meglomaniac. he wants what he wants when he wants it and if he doesnt get it NOW he whines that people are trying to destroy his presidency. he doesnt need any help..hes doing that all by himself. hes only been in the Wh for 6 months and had done more to destroy this country than all the other presidents combined. has anyone notice that he has changed the buzz words “healthcare reform” to “health insurance reform”? does he think we are deaf or just stupid? his true colors are finally showing thru. he’s arrogant ,power hungry, racist, and not to be trusted since hes gone back on every promise he made. and by the way he is NOT a law professor like many in the msm refer to him , but a law lecturer. big difference. we must DEMAND a public forum (a real one) before this is rammed down our throats like this president was.
Ani

the president said it himsdelf — it’s on video. And yeah, it does matter because if he does not entrust his own family to it, why should I.
European

America’s health care policy needs to be changed simply because it’s too expensive for the businesses. In my opinion, the administration should concentrate specifically on helping the businesses so that the US stays as a competitive market and a good place for investments.

The US uses about double the % of money to health care than European countries. However, when the money goes to wages and fees within the country: it comes back a different route in the form of taxes etc. This is something that statistics do not reveal. America is a huge market and Americans, unlike Europeans, spend their money inside their own country.

I hate what Obama is proposing because it’s exactly what we have here in Europe: cheap but rubbish. Everyone do get cheap treatment but it’s minimal and you have to wait months even for important surgeries. I don’t know how many Americans die every year waiting for that heart surgery but it’s nothing unusual around here. If you got a cold then yeah, free health care is a good and cheap thing. But you’re f*cked if you get a cancer (they won’t even test you ’cause it’s too expensive. I speak from experience..) or something serious. I noticed an American “study” about free health care and these “researchers” listed the UK as the world’s best health care system! Excuse me, Britain? British people have gone as far as seeked asylum from other western countries because they can’t get the treatment they need!

I’ve always been jealous of the American system because it’s so trustworthy. Doctors compete about who gets to take the most test whereas in Europe the answer is always “No. We won’t take tests because they cost too much. Here, take some pills and hope that they work”. I’d rather pay for quality but it looks like everything just has to be cheap cheap cheap nowadays. Send the jobs to China and deny the people their health care..
AZBlondie

This is one of the better health care-related articles I’ve read in a long time. I’d love to hear any arguments against some of these conclusions…

(Health Care Mythology – from Realclearpolitics.com)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/23/health_care_mythology_97552.html
http://noquarterusa.net MichL

Illegal aliens and we lowly Americans are entitled to the same crap health care. We change our laws to keep the illegals safe in sanctuary cities. We stand by while they fly our flag upside down. We pay for the birth and education of their children. We lowly American citizens stand by and let the aliens come here by the millions and change our signs and labels to keep them from having to learn English. Press 1 for English? We need to wake up and realize that Barack wants the hispanics and blacks to get whatever they need and want, and the rest of us can go fruck ourselves. Whitey done F’d up by falling for this lunatic, but guilt only lasts so long. Take back America, now, or we’re screwed.
http://charter Healthcare

COULD JOE BIBIDEN HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT 30 IT MAY NOT WORK GOV TAKE OVER ????????????? WE THE PEOPLE WONT OUR COUNTRY BACK. WE THE POPLE DONT WONT OBAMACARE.OBAMA IS A DISGRACE TO AMERICAN.I DID NOT FOR HIM. TELLING PEOPLE TO SET DOWN THEY DON’T WONT TO HEAR THEM. THES IS STEL AMERICAS. AND ACORN AND HIS CZAR THE MONEY IS IS GIVING THEM POPLE OUT OF JOBS JOBS COULD USE THAT. WHERE THE JOBS OBAMA BIDEN???????????????????????????????? LIES LIES IS ALL YOU KNOW.IF IT WAS NOT FOR FOX NEWS WE WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT GOING ON. HOW THE HELL ARE WE GOING TO GET READ OR HIM,AND BIIDEN. GO BACK TO CHICAGO.
ConfusedAmerican

It looks like the Reps are getting hit VERY heavy at their town hall meetings.

I think many Americans are mad and many Americans DO NOT want the Health Care Bill.

Looks like Rep. Keith Ellison of Minn., Rep. Lloyd Doggett of Texas, Senator Arlen Specter of Penn are having an interesting time in just the first few days of their Congressional break due to Health Care Reform.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/03/three-videos-show-why-obamacare-is-in-trouble/

New Yorkers are angry too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOLs7Cybnqw&feature=related
http://charter Healthcare

I LOVE YOU DICK MORRIS. GLEEN BECK BILL, BILL O,RELLY HANNITY, NEIL CAVUTO. EVER ONE AT FOX NEWS. PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. I AM GLAD POPLE ARE SEEING OBAMA FOR WHAT HE IS.AND JOE BIDEN IS AS BAD AS OBAMA, HE IS DESTRY AMERICANS
http://charter Healthcare

THER IS A HELL, AND IT BRUN HOT FOR CONGRESS, PELOS KATHLEEN SEBELIUS YOU WORK FOR US WE THE PEOPLE. ARE YOU AT THE WHITE HOUSE GOING ON THE PELOS HEALTHCARE. HELL NO YOU NOT JUST US WE THE PEOPLE.I DONT CARE ABOUT THE BIRTH CERTIFCATE. HE DON’T IN. SO US WE THE PEOPLE, JUST STAND UP FOR OUR RIGHT. WHERE IS THE CLINTON, THER ARE JUST LIKE OBAMA. JUST OUT FOR THEM. NOT WE THE AMERICAS PEOPLE,COME ON OUT SARE PALIN. I LOVE YOU SARE. YOU ARE THE BEST.CNN CBS AND ALL THE OTHER DONT MATTER. FOX WILL GIVE YOU A CHANCH. MOST PEOPLE WATCH FOX NEWS.SARE GO ON BILL O,REILLY. HANNITY. AND GRETA. TELL THE PEOPLE ABOUT PELOS HEALTHCARE.
LOVE FOX NEWS.