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not everything is black and white

Obama said he hopes that the Gates arrest becomes a teachable moment. Is the lesson that if you are a friend, fundraiser and contributor to Barack Obama, you are innocent, and if you are a white cop, backed by a Union that supported John McCain, you are indeed racist, therefore stupid (and guilty)?

Earlier in the day, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs dismissed a suggestion that the backlash from police groups could be distressing to the White House, given that Obama has enjoyed a positive relationship with the law enforcement community.

“I think the Fraternal Order of Police endorsed McCain,” Gibbs fired back, referring to Obama’s Republican opponent in the 2008 election. “If I’m not mistaken.”

Hmmm, does Obama think this is, in the end, all about him?

Did Obama throw Crowley and the Police Department under the bus because they didn’t back him in the election? Is Gibbs telling us that Obama doesn’t care that the Fraternal Order of Police are backing Crowley because they backed McCain? And what the Governor and Mayor that supported Obama, and believe that Crowley was in the wrong?

From all I have read about this arrest, it seems if you are a Democrat you hate cops and think they are all racist idiots. And if you support the cop you are a racist psycho right wing loon…?

Just look at this insult directed towards Crowley, from John Ridley: “Why all this interest — besides the curiosity as to whether or not the arresting officer had ever once in his life previously used the word “tumultuous” in a sentence?” Are you kidding me? What an elitist ass.

And this diary was hilarious – Daily Kos: The cop lied because Gates couldn’t yell – he had laryngitis!

“Now, if this is the case, Gates has a doctor’s report, as well as many witnesses who would have heard him over the course of the last few days, having difficulty speaking, much less yelling. So it isn’t something he is likely to just make up. This is especially true after talking to his lawyer, who would not have signed on to using this storyline, if it were not true, considering how easily it would be refuted if it were false. So I’m convinced that this is the case, that he couldn’t have yelled. This makes the police report false.

You may want to see more evidence that the things in the report are wrong, but keep in mind that the yelling key to the officer’s story. It’s the only thing that could justify an arrest (for “loud and tumultuous” behavior) in this situation. And though this is only one piece of evidence, I think the police report being wrong is the more likely situation, than Gates and his legal team stupidly clinging to a easily-refutable story about bronchitis.”

It’s too bad that this Dick Tracy didn’t research the facts before calling Sgt. Crowley a liar.

Bill Carter, the man who snapped a photograph of Gates being led away in handcuffs, said police officers were calm and that Gates was “slightly out of control” and “agitated” when he was arrested.

“The officers around kind of calmed him down,” Carter said. “I heard him yelling — Mr. Gates yelling. I didn’t hear anything that he was saying so I couldn’t say that he was belligerent.”

Officer Figueroa heard Gates yelling which he stated in the police report. Sgt. Leon Lashley heard him yelling as well. If you haven’t seen this yet, here is the African American officer that was visible in the photo of Gates in handcuffs.


A 55-year-old neighbor said he witnessed the entire episode
– from the squeal of police brakes in the initial response to Gates’ uproar. “The police did their job. He should be thanking them, but they shouldn’t have arrested the guy,” the neighbor added.

He also apparently wasn’t aware of the audio tapes.

There might be witnesses that Gates had laryngitis, but those would be from the day after the arrest. Who wouldn’t lose their voice from all that yelling!

Some of the Kos Kids believe that because Crowley didn’t vote for Obama he is in fact racist. “When Crowley said he didn’t vote for Obama that’s all I needed to hear right there.” Well, that certainly fits with the crap they have been spewing for two years now.

Tapper pondered whether Obama had ever been profiled. Turns out he was *GASP* mistaken for an hostess once.

As the country discusses and dissects the controversy surrounding the arrest of Prof. Henry Louis Gates, and President Obama’s comments about the arrest, some might wonder: was the president ever a victim of racial profiling?

Not in any major way, say those close to him, but he certainly feels there have been times he was treated differently because of his race. One small, as-yet-unreported example: in the Fall of 2004, then-state sen. Barack Obama was his party’s nominee for the U.S. Senate seat and an emerging national figure because of his rousing speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. But there he stood, at a country buffet in Western Illinois, fielding a question from a white customer as if he worked there. As recalled by a campaign staffer from that time, Obama was standing with three staffers, waiting for their table, when a white man came in and asked for a table for him and his three friends.

“The woman is about to seat me and my party of four, so I imagine you’ll be next,” the President said, trying to defuse any embarrassment by playing it off. The man who’d assumed Obama worked at the country buffet seemed embarrassed, the former campaign aide recalled, who emphasized that this was not a big deal by any stretch.

Perhaps the guy wasn’t used to seeing people dressed up at Country Buffet, maybe Obama looked like a Host because he was in a tie? Maybe the guy was a frequent buffet diner and the regular Host resembled Obama? Maybe Obama was holding a menu? It can happen.

Do you know how many times I have been mistaken for a sales clerk or a waitress? I can think of about 20 times – whether in clothing stores, grocery stores, or restaurants. It happens a lot, and when it does, I usually end up helping the person.

I was accused of shoplifting once when I was returning something to Nordstrom without a receipt. I was dressed like a slob because I had been working in the garden, and I made a quick run to Home Depot, and swung into Nordies. The salesperson, surrounded by five other clerks, eyeing me strangely, gave me a *receipt* instead of my money back ($600) and told me the *check was in the mail*. I thought it odd, and went home and told my brother what happened. He called his friend who worked there, and explained my story. We found out that is what they do when they think the item was stolen.

I have had many sales clerks treat me crappy while shopping dressed less than stellar – trust me, looks make a big difference white or black. Beverly Hills/Rodeo Drive is the worst. (I’m no Julia Roberts, and I wasn’t dressed like a hooker, but the attitudes exist.)

And yes, I’ve even handed my car keys off to a guy I thought was a valet (although, he was white). And I have even been pulled over six times.


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From Just One Minute:

Patterico is excellent with “The Officer Didn’t Stereotype Henry Louis Gates — Henry Louis Gates Stereotyped the Officer”, emphasizing the same point made earlier by Mickey Kaus. A snippet:

And in apologizing for Gates, black firebrands and white liberals patronizingly excuse techniques of stereotyping that they would condemn in a racist.

Form an image of a racist in your mind: someone who watches a TV report about a crime committed by a black person, and says: “I’m not surprised. That’s how black people are: they’re all criminals.” Is this racist attitude justified if the racist says:

I’m sorry I have this bad attitude about black people, but I have seen and heard bad things about black people all my life. I know they commit a lot of crimes, and in fact, I have been robbed by three separate black people in my life.

Now, form an image in your mind of a black person who watches a TV report about police brutality, and says: “I’m not surprised. That’s how those white cops are: they’re all racists.” Is this attitude justified if the black person says:

I’m sorry I have this bad attitude about white cops, but I have seen and heard bad things about white cops all my life. I know they hassle black people, and in fact, I have been mistreated by three separate white cops in my life.

For some reason, people who would never accept the racist’s justification of his racist attitudes, will nod their heads in approval as black people expound on why they believe all white cops are racists based upon their own personal experiences.

Interesting. Yet that line of argumentation is so common, and so commonly accepted, that I feel obliged to take a stab at defending it. One tack – people don’t choose their race but they do choose their vocation – a person who chooses to become a police officer probably does have a set of attitudes that differ from the general population in various ways (More authoritarian? More controlling?).

And why would that justify having an attitude only about white cops? I don’t know. Gates seems to believe that cops hassle blacks men that mouth off; I think cops hassle everyone who mouths off, but where is my street cred? The Times front-paged a story on this.

ONE MORE TIME: Gates claims he produced a driver’s license with the address of the house in question, thereby establishing his right to be there. Should that have been the end of the story? Husbands and wives sometimes have nasty separations in which the husband gets kicked out the wife changes the locks; sometimes that can even escalate to the point where the wife takes out a Temporary Restraining Order. I have no idea what sort of probable cause threshold would be appropriate, but shouldn’t the police make a modest effort to take the emotional temperature of the household before leaving? Gates was seemingly angry and uncooperative from the outset; per Crowley’s version, Gates would not even respond when asked if anyone was in the house with him (In the Gates version, he does not describe the question but does refuse to answer).

So – do feminists and domestic violence experts agree that if the man of the house shouts at the cops that everything is cool so get out, the cops should simply leave?

This was an excellent point that I have seen made on a few sites. Domestic squabbles, and less than cordial divorces are a big issue. If a man, no matter how educated or old he is, is breaking into a home, the officer needs to establish that the guy has a right to be there. And not only that, but as Crowley said, he needs to make sure that Gates is one of the guys that was breaking in and that there aren’t two real burglars hiding in the home somewhere. (Especially considering Gates’ homes had been robbed in the past month, and daytime break ins are currently exceptionally high in that neighborhood.)

And the craziest thing about Gates getting so mad that a cop showed up at his door is that Gates KNOWS he was breaking in the front door. It’s not like the notion was out of the blue.

One of our readers tried to get me to answer an hypothetical about the statistics on African American profiling, and whether, knowing those statistics, I would have reacted the way Gates did.

“Be serious… if a cop showed up at your door, demanded ID and continued to be suspicious when you provided it, you wouldn’t be aggravated?

Hypothetical: what if you were in, say, Italy. And what if you knew that 70% of the time Italian cops investigated someone for potential criminal behavior, they investigated an American Woman. Let’s say they had been doing this for years and years. And let’s say you knew that only 15% of the people in the land of Italy were American Women. Let’s say you also knew that American Women committed nowhere near 75% of the crimes in Italy.

So then an Italian cop responds to a B&E at your house, and thinks you’re the one breaking in. Let’s say you show this Italian cop documentation proving that it’s your house, but he keeps on questioning you.

This wouldn’t make you angry? Really? Really??”

Firstly, I have a hard time applying this hypothetical to Gates, since, as a 58 year old man, this is, according to Gates, the first time this has happened to him. (For a man who studies and teaches about racism, I find it odd that he “now understands what it’s like to be a black man in America”. What’s he been teaching all those years?) So, evidently he knew about the statistics but never experienced them – so they are about as relevant to him as they are to me. Secondly, Gates didn’t immediately show his ID, and he was hostile. Thirdly, as was pointed out above, just because you show ID it doesn’t automatically guarantee that you have a right to be in that home. And lastly, the officer was also making sure there weren’t two robbers hidden in the home.

(How many of the 70% investigated were found guilty of something? What are the stop to conviction ratios? I couldn’t find that info.)

So, anyway, I proposed this hypothetical:

Let’s say I am a woman, and I have been raped, and I know about all of these statistics:

Every 9 seconds, a woman is battered in the U.S. 95% of all victims of domestic violence are women. Domestic Violence is the single major cause of injury to women, more than muggings and car accidents combined. Domestic Violence is the cause of 30% of physical disabilities in women. 50% of all women murdered in the United States are killed by a spouse or an acquaintance. Domestic Violence occurs in 60% of marriages and is the most underreported crime. 90% of battered women reported that their children were present when they were beaten. etc….

I don’t live in fear and paranoia, and I don’t profile and assume that every man I encounter is going to attack me, abuse me, or beat me. I don’t avoid getting married, and I don’t yell at every man that approaches my front door.

So, what lesson do I hope is learned from this ugly situation? That not everything is black and white. Yes, racism still exists. So does sexism, ageism, classism, ableism, and fatism. (fatism…obesityism… chunkyism?)

Everybody defending Gates assumes that he was profiled, and the victim of a racist white cop. Did any of those defending him stop to consider that perhaps he was disorderly, rude, out of control, in the wrong, and deserved to be arrested? (Because I certainly cringed when I heard Gates’ claims of racism, but I looked at the facts, and discovered the truth.) People are still defending him, arguing that he should not have been arrested, that he has a right to behave how he wants, that it is not illegal to yell at police, etc. etc. Their position is that because Gates was in his home, and he showed his ID that it is obviously racism because he is black and the cop is white. Had he been white, they say, he would not have been arrested.

That is just not true. Have you ever watched Cops? Geez, I see white people who mouth off (in their own homes) get taken down all the time.

Not only do white people get arrested, they are stereotyped. Everyone is. Women, blonds, obese people, disabled people, poor people, poor dressers, the elderly, young people, Asian people, Jewish people, Muslims….

It happens to everyone, and everyone is guilty of stereotyping. Are state university students really dumber than Ivy Leaguers? (Hmm think about the attitudes towards Sarah Palin). Are obese people lazy? Do thin people starve themselves? Are blonde women dumb? Are smart, successful women bitchy ball breakers? Is it true Asian people can’t drive? Is a woman in a short skirt at fault for getting raped? Liberals think Conservatives are racist Jesus freaks. Are all white people racist? Are all Muslims terrorists? And on and on and on… It happens every day.

That’s why we all just need to “cool that shit out. And that’s the double truth, Ruth.”

It isn’t always black and white. So, instead of jumping on Sgt. Crowley, a good officer, doing his job, perhaps the teachable moment is don’t always assume the white guy is the racist.

And the bigger lesson – don’t assume the worst of people!

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Racism is terrible, but accusing innocent people of being racist is terrible too. We have some along way. If we are ever going to truly move past racism and it’s ugly history, we have to meet somewhere in the middle, don’t we? We have to stop pointing fingers all the time.

And I really don’t think we need a resolution to force Obama to apologize. That is something he, and Gates, should do willingly. Congress has more important things to focus on.

  • pm317

    Here is another CNN video – listen to the female cop.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/07/26/nr.comrade.in.arms.cnn?iref=video\
    search

  • Peggy Sue

    OMG. Someone has proposed a resolution to insist that Obama and Gates apologize?

    Excuse me, I think Congress has enough on its plate right now [that they're easily fumbling] without muddying the waters with this. Personally, I’d like to hear about an apology–Crowley is owed one in my estimation. But no one, not the President or Professor Gates should be forced to offer an apology.

    What are we doing supporting the morality police now? Please! Nonsense followed by more nonsense.

    Thanks for the followup, AGI.

  • WMCB

    AGI, this was EXCELLENT, just wonderful. Can we have more sanity like this over this issue, please?

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    I’ll take the resolution. Obamacus and Gates both need to apologize.

    As far as I’m concerned, these asshats jumped the shark when they called Bill Clinton a racist. Too bad the Clinton’s decided to hitch their trailer to the Obama express…very disappointing.

    If I was Bill Clinton the secret service would have to restrain my ass whenever I was 20 feet from Obama, because I would want to kick his ass everytime I saw him for calling me a racist.

  • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

    Of course, if I’m white and I’m shouting the n word or “black racist” at a cop on my property it would be a “hate crime” and not only would I be arrested for disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace, I would also the get the maximum sentence allowed by law.

  • oowawa

    Stereotyping is indeed very hard to get rid of. For instance, right now in thinking of Gates’ reaction to Officer Crowley’s visit, I am picturing George Jefferson, and how he would react to the same incident:

    Movin’ on up to the Eastside,
    To a deluxe apartment in the sky . . .

    And Crowley? Well, Mark Fuhrman–who else? In part we try to make sense out of the world by perpetuating stereotypes–many of them absorbed from TV.

    Excellent article, American Girl.

  • IndieDogg

    Once again, you rock the house (and the issue).

    Thanks again, AGiI.

  • Annie

    People that call the other person a racist is usualy the one that is the racist themselves. I believe that Mr. Gates is a racist and so is Obama. When he was campaining how he and his staff called the Clintons racist and if anyone does not agree with Obama you are a racist.He is starting to show his true colors and I hope the people will begin to see him for what he realy stands for.

  • avwrobel

    Talk about a story with legs!! This is going to hang around Obambi’s neck like a millstone. And he has no foreign trip planned, so he’s stuck with this black cloud over his head! (that wasn’t a racist term, was it?)

  • politicalidentitycrisis

    Are we still talking about this BS? Really? I am getting so f-ing po’d that the MSM carries BS like this endlessly. Obama and gates are fricking racist freaks and the cop was doing his job! You know as long as the MSM wants to push the racism meme nonstop to just increase racial tensions (will they not be happy until we have a civil war-what are they Charles Manson???), why don’t they just cover the birth certificate/hiding documents and call every one who wants Obama to show his ID (notice the similarity here, Gates had to show his ID and that is racist so if you ask Obama, it, too, will be racist!) and then dear MSM, cover all of the things Obama has done that he should be impeached for, like firing Walpin, etc., but include all the facts, real facts, not talking points memo facts, and call us all racists every minute of every day because guess what folks????? I don’t know a single white person who even gives a shit anymore about being called racist! I was called racist several times last year for not supporting the fraud and I DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BEING CALLED RACIST ANYMORE! BRING IT ON!

    No quarter should stop doing any more articles on this. It is OVER!!!! Long OVER!!!

  • oowawa

    (notice the similarity here, Gates had to show his ID and that is racist so if you ask Obama, it, too, will be racist!)

    Hmmm–just hmmmmmmm . . . In addition to being racists, that would make us not only “birthers,” but “IDers,” and possibly believers in “IDerism.”

  • NomNomNom

    The comparison with domestic violence is bogus.
    Gates was alone when the police arrived and he did not threaten anyone. Raising one’s voice is not equivalent to violence or communicating threats. No one has disputed that had Gates threatened Crowley, the police sergeant would have been within the bounds of the law to arrest him.
    Also, if one thinks that the police necessarily arrest the man when called to the scene of reported domestic violence, even when there is clear indication that violence has occurred; or that police are necessarily sympathetic to the woman, one needs to do more research.

  • William L. Donlon

    Black racism:

    Policing while white.

    Wasn’t there “a guy named Bill who lives in my neighborhood” who is a “Chicago Professor” and likes to kill white cops??

    Didn’t Rev. Wright want to “kill white cops” in his Sunday sermons?

    Sotomayor had it in for “White Men” because of the color of their skin in her rulings from the bench and in her speeches.

    Skippy is a friend and a Racist Harvard professor.

    Racism is as Racism does.

    If it talks like a racist, defends racist and hangs out with racist??

    It’s a racist.

    Barack: You have met the enemy and it is you.

  • ccwarrior

    Joseph Farah,has a birthday surprise ready for Obama next week.

    He is asking people to flood the White House with personalized letters to Obama demanding the birth certificate and other pertinent documents which he will overnight deliver to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in time for Obama’s birthday next Tuesday. More details here
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105225

  • lahana

    But the police did not know if he was alone. Two people were reported to have forced the door. (The professor and his driver who I assume had already left by the time the police got there.) And when asked if there was anyone else there, instead of saying that yes, his driver had helped him get in the door, Professor Gates apparently said something to the effect of “I don’t have to answer that.” Since the property is registered to the University and Professor Gates was just renting it, a quick records check by the police might not list who all was supposed to be living in it. In hindsight, we know that there was no domestic violence involved but that could not be known at the time, and since two people were noted in the complaint, the possibility existed that one or both of the supposed burglers were holding Professor Gates (or possibly a friend of his) hostage to get him to get the police out of the house. The fact that these things were not the case does not mean that they couldn’t logically have been the case.

  • http://www.lesstalkmoreactivism.blogspot.com whoframedrudy

    “if a cop showed up at your door, demanded ID and continued to be suspicious when you provided it, you wouldn’t be aggravated?”

    I had exactly that experience. Unlike Çrowley, the cops who knocked on my door acted like KGB thugs. I was 30 years younger than Gates, but I kept my wits. I’ve seen many incidents of illegal/incompetent/racist behavior by cops. I’ve seen many incidents where cops acted very professionally.

    Here’s a ‘teachable moment.’ I see what looks like a sexual assault on the street — a man has a woman pinned to the wall with his hand across her mouth. I call 911 and report ‘a white man in a black jacket assaulting a white woman on ___ street.’ I go out to the street so the man will see there’s a witness. Seconds later the cop car pulls up. The cop jumps out and runs right at me. I tell him, “I called you!” He says, “you called?” like he couldn’t believe a black would report a crime. Then I point across the street and yell, ‘Don’t you see that man attacking that woman?’ The cop wakes up out of his race fog and sees the white man I described in my 911 call. I was more angry at the cop’s incompetence — he was so blinded by race he didn’t see the situation on the street.

    It turned out the woman was drunk and it was a couple’s dispute. The cops thanked me for calling. The officer knew he was incompetent — if the man had been a rapist, he could have escaped when the cop came after me. In another situation, if a cop misreads the street, it could cost him his life. It was a ‘teachable moment’ for that cop, and I hoped going forward he’d be a better officer.

    I’ve had enough experience with NYPD, I’ve given thought to the problems and what I could contribute to a solution.

    (1) I take every encounter with police as an opportunity to throw in my two cents to help solve this problem. I let the cop know I’m aware of his point of view even if I don’t share it. I show them I don’t sympathize with criminals, fuck criminals, when it comes to criminals, I’m on the cops’ side. I think about what the city would be like if the cops weren’t there.

    (2) I march against police brutality – that’s when I shout at the cops. When called for jury duty, I told the judge about my encounters — and there were cops in the courtroom to hear me. I work against candidates like Giuliani and for candidates like Mike Bloomberg. I write letters to the editor when the cops are wrong — and when they are right.

    I was at a gay rights march. We were chanting ‘Gay Rights Now! Gay Rights Now!’ A religious extremist jumps into the street, spreads his arms like Jesus to disrupt our legal march. In a second, a woman officer has the guy in handcuffs and swiftly out of our way. We changed our chant to ‘More Women Cops! More Women Cops!’

    Gates is head of Black Studies at Harvard — yet he’s given no thought to how to handle police encounters? When for once in his elite Brahmin life he runs into a cop in the real world, he has no presence of mind, no plan, no strategy. I have a strategy for dealing with cops — because it is such a serious problem for us. Even if you think the cop was profiling, who thinks screaming at the cop in the street is the solution?

    F-triple minus, Professor Gates!

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    you didn’t understand the hypothetical.

  • bho boo

    Shoot the House just forced a resolution that Obama was born in Hawaii without any proof, so certainly it can actually do the right thing and resolve the president needs to apologize to Crawley.

    Obama is an anti-European-American (well, any caucasian) racist. He’s acting out his deep psychiatric disturbances about his racism at ALL our expense–people believed he would straddle the racial barrier instead he has created the worst racial divides for the past 50 year.

    Obama is an ineligible usurper according to SCOTUS precedent Minor v. Happersett.

  • http://www.homewhiteningcare.org/ bho boo

    Shoot the House just forced a resolution that Obama was born in Hawaii without any proof, so certainly it can actually do the right thing and resolve the president needs to apologize to Crawley.

    Obama is an anti-European-American (well, any caucasian) racist. He’s acting out his deep psychiatric disturbances about his racism at ALL our expense–people believed he would straddle the racial barrier instead he has created the worst racial divides for the past 50 year.

    Obama is an ineligible usurper according to SCOTUS precedent Minor v. Happersett.
    Oops…forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.

  • bho boo

    ‘Tis better to be a birther than a fraudster like the Obots.
    Minor v. Happersett defines a natural born citizen as born of 2 US citizen parents on US soil,AND it states that any 14th amendment definition of US citizen is NOT a natural born citizen.
    So even if they insist Obama was born in Hawaii, which he has not proven…but even so he can never be a natural born citizen per SCOTUS precedent and by Article II s.1 he’s ineligble and therefore a usurper.

  • bho boo

    The BC is not the critical factor…
    he admitted he was born British, Minor v. Happersett as SCOTUS precedent means Obama is a usurper AND guilty of perjury in having attested to himself as being a natural born citizen on candidate forms in VA and AZ.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    OMFG. are you serious? the house passed a resolution asserting that the crook-in-chief was born in hawaii????! that is prima facie (sp?) evidence that he was NOT born in hawaii, IMO.

  • NomNomNom

    I understand the intent of the hypothetical just fine, it’s just not a valid comparison.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    i don’t want them to be *forced* to apologize. they need to do it on their own. if we *force* them, what good is it?

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    as I understand, they introduced it, but Bachmann blocked it.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/27/bachmann-hawaii-resolution-obama/

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    Thank you WMCB! Good to see you around again. :O)

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    Thanks oowawa and indiedogg!

  • NomNomNom

    “Everybody defending Gates assumes that he was profiled, and the victim of a racist white cop. Did any…consider that perhaps he was disorderly, rude, out of control, in the wrong, and deserved to be arrested?… People are still defending him, arguing that he should not have been arrested, that he has a right to behave how he wants, that it is not illegal to yell at police, etc. etc. because Gates was in his home, and he showed his ID that it is obviously racism because he is black and the cop is white. Had he been white, they say, he would not have been arrested.”

    As I am one of those who do not believe that Gates should have been arrested, I would like to answer these statements.
    I have never said I think Gates was racially profiled: I do not think that he was.

    Of “disorderly, rude, out of control, in the wrong, and deserved to be arrested?” only disorderly is legal grounds for an arrest. I do not believe that his behavior met the description required for disorderly. Also, any public component to his behavior occurred after Crowley knew that Gates had not committed the crime of breaking and entering, and occurred only because Crowley refused to answer the question of his name and badge number inside the house, something he is required to provide, thus forcing Gates to follow outside if he were to obtain the information.

    “Their position is that…obviously racism…arrested.”
    That is not my position: I believe Gates was lured outside in order to arrest him for mouthing off to the cop, not because of his race. I do think if he had been white and had spoken to the cop in a way the cop didn’t like he would also have been arrested.
    And I wouldn’t like that any better.

    I am in complete agreement that Gates is himself a racist. I am in complete agreement that BHO is a racist. I am in complete agreement that BHO should not have interjected himself into the situation (innocent until proven guilty, separation of powers) and that his doing so made a bad situation worse.
    Lastly, I am not defending Gates, I am defending Gates’ rights– which happen also to be my rights– and that’s a different thing altogether.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    sorry, beg to differ. based on your comments, you absolutely did not understand.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    if my statements do not apply to you, then they aren’t directed at you. I have read hundreds of comments, ad listened to dozens of pundits and my comments were directed towards them. Sorry, I wasn’t directing my comments to you.

    Gates was NOT lured outside. Initially Crowley asked him to step outside, which is protocol. One, to protect the officer, two, to protect the homeowner, in case there was robbers inside the home.

    Gates refused, and only AFTER he showed his ID (after Crowley had spoken to dispatch numerous times) did he follow Crowley outside the home, on his accord, and continued to berate Crowley. How did he lure him? With promises of a new puppy?

    Defending his rights to treat a police officer who was called to his home, and was trying to protect his home, to abuse him and accuse him of a racist? And to get disorderly, and insult and scream, and cause a disturbance?

  • tzada

    Back to the waiter, “profiling” or not. Since when are all restaurant workers black? On this same line, I have been shopping in a store and been asked questions by other customers who think I work in that store. This is all complete and utter nonsense.

    It is “smoke and mirrors”. I truly think it was a setup from the get go. Where is the elderly lady who approached Ms Whalen? It is all too pat. Why did Lynn Sweet read her question? Why did she have the mike in her hand prior to being called on? Why did 0 interrupt his answer to a previous question and call on her? The Chicago Way at work again.

    All this has backfired on the racists, Obama and Gates.

  • NomNomNom

    Police routinely ask persons to step outside the home because they have less rights outside the home as well. imo that is what happened here.
    I have answered you civilly, in spite of your assertions that I do not understand what I read and your sarcasm here (puppy) merely because I disagree with you.
    But I can dispense with that in future should you prefer.

  • old one

    This is an Axelrod diversion which blew up in BO’s face. (Stop looking at the trees and focus on the forest. BO is not the object/focus, although he “stupidly” did not foresee the blowback from his white and black supporters/libs seeing through him.) The message was meant for his ACORN folks, and to get them in the face of the blue-dogs.

    BO/Axelrod simply wanted to manipulate BO’s people, and use this crisis to freak Dems on their summer break, and to remind them of who is The One. To keep them in line for 2010.

  • tzada

    How did the officer know he was alone? The callin said 2 men. There would be many a officer who would be dead if they just took someones word for things. There are set procedures for handling things. Go by the book is the correct way to handle in law enforcement. An officer could lose his job for not following this.

    Turn it around and ask this, what if Gates was being held hostage by and unseen person. Crowley leaves without investigating, Gates dies, and then you do have a real problem.

  • tzada

    lmao “promises of a new puppy”

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    Crowley was informed there were two men involved. He only saw one. Why would he step inside, especially after Gates was being rude? It is protocol. Crowley was alone.

    I do believe I answered you civilly, even apologizing, saying my comments were not directed at you. Although, after reading your reply, I do believe this applies to you:

    People are still defending him, arguing that he should not have been arrested, that he has a right to behave how he wants, that it is not illegal to yell at police, etc. etc. because Gates was in his home,

    As for the puppy, I call that humor. But, I would like to know how you think Crowley lured him.

    As for the hypothetical, you called it bogus, while not understanding the original proposed, or mine. But, you called it bogus, and not valid. I think my comment about the puppy is more civil than *bogus* and not valid Especially when your attempts to prove it bogus do not deal with the points at hand.

  • Docelder

    Lastly, I am not defending Gates, I am defending Gates’ rights– which happen also to be my rights

    That is dead on right Nom, and I am with you that more aren’t concerned with that point. I think the opportunity to trounce Obama is blinding some, and the lemming like “fall into line” regarding anything to do with the police is the rest of it. But, I think this is wrong. All rights are precious. Even the rights of those we don’t agree with… maybe even especially those rights. Because, who knows when and if we may find ourselves at the receiving end of something like this? Who will in turn stand for us if that time comes?

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    and what about Crowley’s rights?

    speaking for myself, if i were a lemming, i think i would have voted for obama.

    perhaps we can’t agree on the issue because you are the type who would scream and rant at someone for doing their job, and i’m not? I’m not worried about this happening to me, because I would NEVER act that way.

    I see the right of the officer to respond to a possible B&E, putting his own life on the line every day, without being called a racist, and without being screamed at, and without someone refusing to provide vital information that could endanger an officer (not stepping out to the porch, and not responding if there is someone in the house is putting the officer in danger, in my opinion).

    Yes, we have rights, but they apply to all Americans don’t they?

    Some things we will just never agree on. (I am leaving for the day – will check back later!) ciao!!

  • mountainaires

    Excellant blog post, AGI, thank you very much, your comments are so true.

    In my opinion, and in the opinion of so many others WHO WERE THERE, it’s clear that Sgt Crowley behaved without reproach, and Professor Gates was out of control. Why I don’t know; but his charges of “racial profiling” are clearly wrong, since the police officer didn’t know the race of the people reported by the 9/11 caller. Who, by the way, also feels attacked and smeared by Professor Gates’ accusation right in front of her that Crowley “would take a white woman’s word over a black man’s word!”

    Sgt Crowley had every right, and I would argue, a duty to arrest Professor Gates who was clearly out of control.

    The lesson from this instance–this “teachable moment” is turning out to be the most important lesson Professor Gates, and his friend, President Obama, and their sycopants in the press and elsewhere, ever did NOT intend to teach:

    BLACK PEOPLE CAN ALSO BE RACISTS.

  • mountainaires

    Excellant blog post, AGI, thank you very much, your comments are so true.

    In my opinion, and in the opinion of so many others WHO WERE THERE, it’s clear that Sgt Crowley behaved without reproach, and Professor Gates was out of control. Why I don’t know; but his charges of “racial profiling” are clearly wrong, since the police officer didn’t know the race of the people reported by the 9/11 caller. Who, by the way, also feels attacked and smeared by Professor Gates’ accusation right in front of her that Crowley “would take a white woman’s word over a black man’s word!”

    Sgt Crowley had every right, and I would argue, a duty to arrest Professor Gates who was clearly out of control.

    The lesson from this instance–this “teachable moment”– is turning out to be the most important lesson Professor Gates, and his friend, President Obama, and their sycopants in the press and elsewhere, ever did NOT intend to teach:

    BLACK PEOPLE CAN ALSO BE RACISTS.

    Ironic, isn’t it…

  • WMCB

    Exactly. But perhaps “common sense” is not a course taught in the halls of Holy Harvard. The rest of us live in the real world every day, and so are not shocked and outraged and STUPID when we encounter it.

  • WMCB

    I don’t agree, but your opinion is valid and sound for your own reasons. I myself think the arrest itself was marginally iffy, but not beyond the pale.

    However, once this got blown up by Gates into a huge racial thing, we unfortunately lost any chance to have a “conversation on the proper powers of the police”. And that’s sad.

  • Docelder

    The cop has rights, but he also has duty. His duty isn’t to arrest people at their own home who might insult the cop or his mother. His duty is to uphold the law, and not to become an active participant in public disorders. Admitting to his former boss that bringing his mother into it is where the “line was crossed” means he became a participant. You are right, I won’t ever see it any other way. Odd that he felt the need to run this scenario by his former boss? Is that “procedure” as well?

  • Ellen D

    Interesting – she said she had supported and voted for Obama but she wouldn’t again. I guess he’s lost the black first responder vote.

  • Ellen D

    I have been accused of racism twice without actually being called a racist.

    Once, when I was younger, I was asked for a date by a black lawyer in my office building who obviously didn’t notice my wedding ring under a large unusual engagement ring. When I told him I was married he obviously didn’t believe me. I got peeved and said “I don’t have to justify myself to you, you’re the one calling me.”

    At the same time a black colleague accused me of ignoring him in a crowded subway car when I simply didn’t see him. The following week the opposite situation happened when he didn’t see me.

    Has anyone else who is white had social situations with black men where they feel they have had to justify normal actions because they are subtly being accused of being racist, or have I just met up with a couple of paranoid men?
    Do you think this is the norm?

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    I agree with that. It depends, i suppose on the level of his disorderly conduct. it is gates’ screaming racist that made it so much worse. and that’s what pissed me off.

    Gates was going ballistic, and screaming racist BEFORE he was being arrested. I can see if he was super calm, and did everything that was asked of him, and then all of a sudden, out of the blue he was arrested… but he started the racist charges BEFORE he was in cuffs. He started it the minute Crowley approached him.

    And like i said, the crazy thing is, Gates KNEW he had been trying to break down the front door!

    Gates made this mess – one by acting like an elitist asshole when Crowley was doing his job, and two, by going to the media and making this a HUGE overblown racial issue, when it wasn’t.

    The question can be debated on whether he should have actually been arrested, but all the behavior leading up to it was uncalled for, and going to the media smearing Crowley was uncalled for, in fact, I would sue him.

    And all of that started before he was arrested, or there was even any HINT of his going to jail….so serves him right.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    you have never called someone, a good friend, or former work buddy, and sought advice, condolence, or talked something through with them? The guy was being smeared in the media, and had threats of lawsuits. I would have done the same thing, and explained the entire situation, seeking reassurance. Most people call lawyers, he probably called his old boss for advice. Who wouldn’t when you have a buddy of the POTUS threatening to sue you?

  • NoBamaNoWay

    thanks for the link; the comments were quite interesting. after that resolution to basically declare Ozero a natural born citizen, i would put anything past them.

  • NoBamaNoWay

    i agree with you, AGI.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

    thanks! :O)

  • Wisewoman

    I’m black and i agree with you 100% concerning what Bill Clinton’s action should be.

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