What Happens When You Soak the Rich?

And the kick in the head is politicans know new taxes curb behavior. To reduce tobacco use they increase taxes. To reduce alcohol consumption, they increase taxes. To conserve energy, they increase taxes. To fight obesity, they are considering taxes on candy and soda.

Hmmmm….following the same logic…. it must mean being rich is hazardous to your health and detrimental to society as a whole! Millionaires must be stopped with disincentives before they ruin us all.

Politicians are hypocrits and idiots!

On the flip side we just learned that $33 billion of our tax dollars went to bank bonuses. We also see a steady trend where the distibution of wealth in the country is shifting upward to a relativly small number of people while worker wages don’t budge for the avearge worker. Workers wages as a share of the GDP in in the toilet. The tax burdon has been shifted down onto the middle class in the form of property and other regressive taxes/fees.

We are adding another $3.9 trillion dollars at the federal level every day to our $11.5 trillion dollar debt.

That was $3.9 “Billion”.

Didn’t heir commander-in-chaos mumble something about a downward curve?

They will lower the bar for rich. Finally no one who is working and productive is not included. Except Washington and their hangers on.

One day they will be expendable. They think it won’t happen to them. It will. Will the Chicago Machine be spared? Depends on which of the groups wins.

Is there a conspiracy to take down America? Start with the definition of conspiracy.

Timely article Larry, good job.

Sorry, no sympathy here. Tax codes should be progressive.

Let me guess. Your friend didn’t choose Alaska.

Atlas Shrugged.

No sympathy here either. Just the reality that you can’t tax them if they ain’t there. Driving rich people out of your state, where they did pay taxes and spend money isn’t the best way to get the money needed to run a state. Driving them away helps no one. Except perhaps moving companies.

except that the rich aren’t getting “soaked”: they’re bleeding the rest of us dry.
the gap between lowest paid worker and ceo has skyrocketed by every estimate.
Average World-Wide CEO Compensation as a Multiple of Average Employee Compensation in 2000 lists the US at 536:1; our nearest competitor in the world was Brazil at 57 to 1.
We are a fascist nation, run by oligarchs.

Herr Commander in Chief

People need jobs. And no amount of taxing the rich will bring down the price of groceries or the cost of housing. It doesn’t help me to sit in my chair at home without a job, cheering the sight of every “millionaire” who must pay a penalty tax. And anything that forces taxpayers to move out, reducing the tax base of a state or city, doesn’t help either.
Anyone who lives in NYC knows that the middle class left because of the amount of luxury apartments that gobbled up neighborhoods and left the working people with no affordable place to live. They relocated and found other jobs, other apartments, in other cities. This has eroded the tax base for years. Meanwhile, one of the largest subway systems in the world must be maintained to keep it running, along with the water system, the sanitation, etc. And the solution is to make Donald Trump et al pay a penalty tax? It has never worked. And those who are rich from operating companies that provide jobs … well, if they leave, so do the jobs. How stupid is this?
Larry, if your friends did go to Alaska, they could do a lot worse. Thanks to Palin’s recent media spotlight, I saw more of Alaska in the last year than I did my entire life. It is spectacular. And if the people do indeed get a “profit sharing” check from the state’s energy business, then how nice is that? The only people in my home state who received a “profit sharing” slice of the states pie were/are the politicians. Look at Rep. Charlie Rangel — he who still sits in his House chair, despite unbelievable behavior — and consider his hogging of three rent controlled apartments until he was shamed into giving up one (or two? I forget). No resident of NYC is allowed to have more than one rent regulated apartment and it must be your residence. Charlie is not embarrassed about it (and Gov. David Patterson has an apartment in the same building but he doesn’t live in Manhattan).
I am embarrassed for my city, embarrassed to have called myself a Democrat all my life (although the Repubs are no better in the Big Town), and angry that a working person must scramble to find a safe, clean, place to live within the city limits, while our political elite gobbles up the resources. BTW, sales of luxury apartments in Manhattan are way, way down. Looks like the rich are moving elsewhere. I would do the same, but who will pay to keep the subways running?
When I was growing up in NYC in the 50s, the garment industry was big. Chances are, if you looked at the label in your clothing, no matter where you lived in this country, you’d see a Made in U.S.A. tag … and it was most likely someone like my Mom was the person in NYC who did the factory sewing on your clothing. Long Island City, just across the East River, had a thriving light manufacturing community, with anything from pots and pans to staplers. The west side of Manhattan, near the Hudson River in the 30s was loaded with commercial printers. Their all gone.
Now, NYC has a “tourist” economy … we depend on people to visit. That’s why we came to an economic standstill after 9-11. We don’t make anything anymore (except money when Wall Street works) and we need people to come and visit and buy stuff that’s probably made in China. (People made fun of Bush when he said “Go to NYC and spend money.” No need to laugh … he understood our tourism economy.)
So how did New York become a tourist economy when it had it all — manufacturing, finance, service industries — not that long ago? Taxes and high rents drove out business and those “backbone-of-the-city” blue collar jobs disappeared. Taxing the rich and adding penalty taxes does not help. It destroys working communities.

When will government officials understand, that it is not the tax rates that matter but the tax revenues. Maximizing tax revenues is good business. Playing with tax rates is pure politics. I guess this is why politicians are not typically good businessmen.

How often have we seen the rerun of this film?

Actually is just the opposite. The top 1% of tax payers pay more then the bottom 95%. About 1.4 million top earners pay more then the bottom 130+ million tax payers. I think they pay their fair share.

“Their all gone.”

I meant to say “They’re all gone.” Sorry!

Last night, during yet another attempt to mark up the House health overhaul bill, Rep. Henry Waxman’s (D-CA) House Energy and Commerce Committee took up and voted down (33-25) an amendment by ranking member Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) to prevent the implementation of a little-known provision in the bill that would cause the highly-publicized surtax on high earners to double if the cost of the health overhaul is higher than expected.

The “surtax” (read: tax increase) “doubles in the year 2013 if there is a study by the Office of Management and Budget that determines certain savings have not occurred,” said Barton. “The effect of the Barton amendment would be that beginning 2013, only those citizens who make over $1 million would have their taxes increased by the surtax.”

http://www.redstate.com/

Well, it’s not tax relief, but for a little comic/prophetic relief, here’s a link to George singing “Taxman” with the Lads … so long ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQqtvl2Ibzo

Those who have the money usually have the ability to pick up and move else where.
This applies to what the American government is trying to do.
Why do you think so many of the rich are now setting up primary residence in other countries.

It going to be weird when the Government tries taxing citizens they support already to support those who are supported with even less money.

Obama is going to end up taxing the elite and decnt businesses out of America.

“except that the rich aren’t getting “soaked”: they’re bleeding the rest of us dry.”

The rich are not bleeding us dry. They’re earning money, hiring people, paying taxes,and buying things. This whole idea that people with money are stealing it from poor people is a bit of propaganda invented by politicians. Now places like AIG they are bleeding us dry, but again that’s the fault of government subsidizing them, funneling our tax dollars their way.

You forgot Fannie and Freddie…turns out while America was screaming at AIG for their bonuses Fannie and Fredie was handing out bonuses too.

If you are going to play, then you are going to pay. The circuitry of the machine is hard wired. It is, what it is.

We aren’t rich at all, but I can tell you we do everything possible to reduce our tax burden. It’s crippling to a small business, people don’t understand how much of your money goes to taxes, fees, regulations, government mandates for running a business. The tighter things get, the less people we hire, the less work we do, the less taxes we pay. The less revenue the state and feds get. It’s kind of like having someone’s foot on your neck, if you don’t let up on them, they can’t go out and bring in revenue for the government. Punitive taxes shut down an economy.

I am very much concerned about this health care bill passing. My family owns a small business that is already in trouble and this will only make it worse.

And remember, these are the same people Obama says should pay for his health care plan gap.

There just aren’t that many of them!

That’s pretty funny. Thank you for this Larr.

Unless now our govt wants to do their own “price fixing” mandating every state to charge a tax, which they can’t, of course, but that doesn’t mean, like we’ve seen in example, that they wouldn’t TRY. lol

Right now with the “Clash of the Clunkers” saga, this is the PERFECT script for what is to come from this Congress and Obamanation. ‘Oops, we had to revise the first Cash for Clunkers programs and anger people that now have car companies telling them they have to cough up $4,500.00 because that car gets 1 miles less than the revised program. And then, they didn’t figure the American population would jump at the chance for $4,500.00 off a new car with their older car trade-in (ask how many have old cars laying around) and have a huge amount taking advantage and according to their numbers, they are spending the 1 billion dollar allotment way too fast and had to stop it.

Hence of course Congress and Obama look like the fools they are for this horribly run program and now having to hault it for these obvious reasons after just revising it, but of course, this Congress doesn’t want to look foolish, so they instead have just TRIPLED the cost of the program, adding 2 billion dollars more…(like their other bailouts)…to only have to hault it…in lets say…another few weeks. Probably freaking out after their summer recess return.

See, you just have to sit back and watch them. They bury themselves.

True. But please don’t make the mistake of thinking that most “rich” people are in the rare heights of the big CEO’s.

A lot of people people making over a million are not overpaid CEO’s sitting in a plush office somewhere, or trust fund babies “letting their money work for them.” A lot of them are very hard working people, with small businesses, or self-employed, who are busting their ass every day to make that money. I’ve known everything from a plumber to a woman who started a house-cleaning business to an owner of burrito-stands who made over a million. Most people who make over a million are not parasitic, they are PRODUCING something.

The wage vs. CEO gap has very little to do with not taxing the rich enough, and everything to do with the takeover of our stock market by the stock-manipulators and casino-gamblers, who ARE sucking everything they can from the system. Most “rich” people are not CEO’s of a large publicly traded company. You solve it by singling out and punishing that sort of extortionary and parasitic and economically cannibalistic behavior, not by across-the-board punishing anyone who makes money, no matter the means by which they made it.

Guess who now has MORE Fortune 500 companies in-state than either NY or CA? In fact, the most in the whole country?

Texas.

Im trying to understand why larry johnson has to use such vile language in his posts? F- this GODda$%$% that. I think there are better ways to express one’s self respectibly

I dunno. Maybe stupidity makes him angry. I do it because I’m married to an effing former Navy man, and I have to keep up.

That is right where I am. I have a business that is not making any money in this economy but has 19 employees. Put an 8% tax on payroll and we could be toast.

Yes, Larry, didn’t the C.I.A. ever send you to charm school??? I bet your the kind of guy who drinks his afternoon tea without elevating his pinky.

Why doesn’t Maryland just prevent the rich from leaving? Couldn’t they send state troopers to the homes of the rich and place them in some sort of “tax protective custody?” Come on, Maryland, let’s get creative here! We’re talking about taxes.

Let the rich create more business to pay workers who then buy stuff and the state gets it’s sales tax… gee, seems like a proven source of state revenue.

Note to MA: Why doesn’t WA state have any state income tax?

We kinda made fun of Bush after the ‘go spend money’ comments after 9/11. Now after the economic downfall we feel a lot more connected to the jobs we might be helping to save by spending it.

We haven’t been saving money for ourselves in a long time but buying some large items that we really needed. We joked about helping the economy while replacing a tv that died about a year after 9/11. We aren’t joking now.

If taxes inspire the rich, middle class, etc to buy elsewhere then the resident state has shot themselves in the foot. People close to the Oregon state line drive there to make large purchases because they have no sales tax. My aunt would get a list of things to buy for other people when she was making the trip. I know of other people who bought lumber for an entire house, plus all the finish work supplies, outside of CA and hauled it back themselves.

So with purchases both large and small. These politicians need to understand that people can wait a few years to buy something when the tax code is more favorable. Or that a drive or move out of state isn’t out of the possibilites for the middle class as well.

WMCB:

Thank you for saying that which needed to be said.

roflmao Yes, better we have someone who claims to be superior than all others, then shoots a middle finger to his competing candidate, a fellow senator and former First Lady. Now, that’s class.

Sorry, but I really don’t buy this constant (near-GOP) bullshit about “soaking the rich”. If you people who constantly whine about how “unfair” the tax code is to multi-millionaires, just look at how REALLY “unfair” it was back in the 1950s and 1960s. These whiny doing-absolutely-no-real-fucking-work-for-their-money slobs cannot conceive of REALLY paying their fair share. The top tax rates until the early 1970s ran as high as 70%, on incomes of as “low” as $200,000–granted with that era’s dollar power; of course, the tax code was never modified to be adjusted for inflation ($200K in 1970 was the equivalent of $1 million today; $200K in 1940 was the equivalent of $3 million today) so today’s low rates are hardly exemplary of a “progressive income tax” (when someone making $200K is forced to pay the same rate as someone making $1 million, that’s a bit unfair; when someone making $50K is forced to pay a rate that’s nearly HALF the rate of someone making $200K, that’s downright obscene–do the math).
And, I’d point out that Texas, with its lack of a state income tax, tends to rate very poorly in almost every aspect of social programs (from education to health care); Florida, OTOH, can defend its lack of state income tax with its state-run lottery (often attacked as a “tax on the poor”, since those earning less that $50K are seen as the primary participants) as well as its tourism industry (which is seeing some hard times due to the economy), but it still tends to rate pretty low on a number of social and economic scales.
Of course, if the gov’t (at all levels) would abandon the legal falsehood that businesses are individuals*, and tax them absolutely fairly and cut out all the loopholes (that wind up getting paid by consumers) and all the “incentive programs” to lure in new businesses (which wind up being paid for by local taxpayers), then the average taxpayer’s rate would be lower.

*Why is it that we never hear about THAT as being “judicial activism”? Because it happened so long ago and has become part of “precedent”? Or could it be simply that certain parties have no problem with corporations being treated as “people” but loathe the notion that the poor and downtrodden should be included among “people”? (I think the latter.)

Yes, I too have noticed a slight change of tone in our host’s rhetoric over the past year. Maybe he’s just getting fed up with the likes of us! Perhaps if Judith Martin (Miss Manners) could be persuaded to contribute an occasional article . . .

you don’t need MUCH money to move

I am example and I’ve moved so much as I love to live the journey and I’ve never made more than 50 G and usually under 30 – if you are employable or have family or both

I actually love the experience and I’ve been disabled over 10 yrs and have still managed to hobble my butt around a few more times. If I can figure it out, anyone can. Most are just too scared or lazy to try something (anything) new. jmo.

He may have had a “Reverend Wright” moment and thought he was in a church.

LOL! My Mom’s 92. She wasn’t married to a sailor and she doesn’t have a nice blog like this one, but she’s “effing” all over the place, too. Like Larry, she doesn’t suffer fools (well, she does put up with me but hey …).

If you soak the rich they get really wet. Right? Right?

Wait, I’ll come in again.

Well, isn’t this just so fitting.

“STATE’S A WRECK? PARTY!
GOV AT CLUB BASH AMID A NEW DI$ASTER
Read Comments
Leave a Comment
By BRENDAN SCOTT Post Correspondent

DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Gov. Paterson lives it up at Taj with BET exec Rhonda Cowan (left) and a guest — hours before he revealed massive deficit growth yesterday.

Last updated: 9:31 am
July 31, 2009
Posted: 2:03 am
July 31, 2009

ALBANY — What’s Gov. Paterson got to celebrate?

Just hours before delivering news of soaring budget deficits and lagging revenues from the recent millionaire’s tax, the party-hearty Paterson was spotted hobnobbing at a Chelsea hot spot with “new BFF” Russell Simmons and others from the hip-hop set.

The night-owl chief executive reportedly lingered for hours at the West 21st Street nightclub Taj, which was the site of several overlapping cocktail parties, including an invitation-only birthday bash for BET executive Rhonda Cowan, a longtime Paterson friend.

…Just hours later, Paterson called on the Legislature to address a yawning budget gap that has swelled to $2.1 billion in just three months.

The governor blamed his latest bleak forecast, which pushes the state’s budget gap to $38.2 billion over the next four years, on plunging tax collections and job losses.

Plummeting tax revenues were behind much of the shortfall.

In the first three months of this fiscal year, income-tax collections fell 35 percent, to $7.7 billion, compared with the same period last year. The drop was $584 million below estimates set in April, when the governor and the Legislature agreed to a $8 billion tax-and-fee package.

Budget officials said revenues from the $3.9 billion millionaire’s tax have lagged behind projections.

Last year, the state collected about $1 billion from top earners. Those collections may now come in at only $500 million, lower than forecast last spring.

Officials said it could be due to changes in the way the wealthy are reporting their income, the possibility that some have moved out of state, or that they are earning less.”

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07312009/news/regionalnews/states_a_wreck__party__182249.htm

…I’m sure that’s it. lol

My 94 year old dad can blow the pants off any foul mouthed person with swear words. I grew up hearing all sorts of combinations of expletives!

Call it the 1930′s version of rap. That’s what us kids call it.

Perfectly stated.

Thank you.

Beautifully stated, WMCB.

August break coming up, and the politicians are all aghast that they are going home to an angry citizenry, tut-tutting that we are an unruly mob, and why should they have to have those pesky townhalls anyway, if people are just going to yell at them.

On the eve of the August recess, members are reporting meetings that have gone terribly awry, marked by angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior. In at least one case, a congressman has stopped holding town hall events because the situation has spiraled so far out of control.

“I had felt they would be pointless,” Rep. Tim Bishop (D-N.Y.) told POLITICO, referring to his recent decision to temporarily suspend the events in his Long Island district. “There is no point in meeting with my constituents and [to] listen to them and have them listen to you if what is basically an unruly mob prevents you from having an intelligent conversation.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25646.html

I guess they think we should all be happy to be jobless and broke. Why oh why are we so pissy about it all? Why won’t we join them in dispensing with the constitution or laws or oversight, and join the happy MBA Day parade down K-Street like we ought? They are baffled. Whence this unsavory cretinous populism?

Green shoots! Green shoots! Goldman is BACK, baby! *cue ticker tape streamers and confetti*

That’s a great idea. Bus the poor out of the state, and keep the rich behind barbed wire.

Gee, what a surprise coming from an Obot stopping by to share their talking point Cut and Paste.

your “whining about taxes for multi millionares”
shows you didn’t even read. The article is about the tax imposed on 1 million….NOT multi billionares

And, do you want to talk about all taxation now? Like when we didn’t even have a sales tax…State taxes, cities taxex, property taxes, just a Federal Tax. Which do you want to discuss? And, are you actually trying to make the argument that “it could be worse, therefore you should be happy it’s only this bad?”

One business I handle has 40 employees and pays $25,000. a month in Blue Cross for only their employees (not spouses or families).
It’s time for the yearly increase. I don’t see how this can continue.

buy stock in the moving companies,they are on a roll

Millionaires are only part of that picture. According to fiscal analysts, those with taxable income of more than $1 million accounted for only 0.3 percent of all filers.

This from the same article Larry quoted.

I am speaking of the truly rich, not well to do.
The United States has over 200 billionaires. Jmo, but I do not see how anyone can “earn” that level of money. There are too many arrangements between these very top people that inhibit any sort of free market or fair play.
as I said: the people who run this county are oligarchs.

This may have changed, but WA state was like the Canadian Provinces, the last time I was there. Alcohol is sold through government stores. Now, if you have a monopoly on the liquor business, you don’t need a sales tax.

“country”

ooops – INCOME tax.

Oh, you are entitled to your opinion. But you have to be willing to live with the inevitable RESULTS of your opinion. Funny how that terrible redneck hell that is Texas rates so low to you, but people are moving here in droves from blue states.

We have a budget surplus (surprise!), and no financial crisis regarding the social programs we DO offer (and yes, some are indeed very necessary). See, we look ahead, and figure out how to pay for it before we do it.

We also produce more wind energy than any state in the country. What? Evil TX, home of the oil barons, is investing heavily in alternative energy? Say it ain’t so!

Oh, and we do a lot for others ourselves, as well. The top 25 states as far as charitable giving as adjusted for income are not Blue states. Texas is #12. We’re helping our own neighbors just fine, thanks, and doing it voluntarily. Funny how the oh-so-compassionate, loves-them-some-poor-people NJ, RI, MA, and NH are on the bottom as far as giving goes.

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/cfp/db/generosity.php?year=2004

And I agree with you on “personhood” for corporations. It’s a crock. You know, everyone who doesn’t want to embrace your ENTIRE statist agenda whole is not a flaming right wingnut. Some of us are just very practical centrists. Most of the country is, in fact.

So come on down to Texas, darlin’. But be forewarned that you need an invite to come into my home – if you break in, I am legally allowed to shoot you where you stand.

make that jobless broke hungry and sick.

You’re right, candymarl, they will indeed get wet.

I remember an old punk song called “Eat the Rich,” kind of a variation on Swift’s “Modest Proposal,” which suggested that “the impoverished Irish might ease their economic troubles by selling children as food for rich gentlemen and ladies” (Wikipedia). I’m sure that the well-fed rich would be a much more healthful source of nutrition than the scrawny children of the poor. Soylent Green, anyone?

I have astounded hubby on occasion with my brilliantly creative and carefully crafted expletives, and drawn applause. That’s quite the compliment from a Navy man!

I agree that oligarchy is the problem. Bigtime. I do not agree that taxing the hell out of anyone who makes over a million is the solution.

And since this piece was, in fact, addressing more taxes on those making over 1 million, and this is the idea we were all discussing, it seems a bit disingenuous to now backpedal and claim you weren’t talking about those people, only multi-billionaires.

they accumulate more than their fair share of the wealth that the people at the bottom generate. shouldn’t they pay more taxes?

the super-rich always find ways to avoid taxes. nothing new there. does that mean they shouldn’t be taxed?

You know its getting to where the only way a lot business will be able to handle what the Government is doing is by letting the Govenment take control of them. Deciding who runs them, their benefits, bonuses and etc.

Opps is that what the Government is trying to do…

yep. it’s get rich or get screwed.

the solution is not to stop taxing the wealthy. the solution is to impose a penalty on companies who have their factories and profits overseas, but want to sell their products in america. without this, the inevitable outcome is that (american) worker wages drop to the level of the lowest paying countries.

you’re pretty close to it Jose; fact is that taxes on corporations were much higher in the past, worker wages were (relatively) higher, and our economy was much stronger. for that reason i can’t really buy the claim that high taxes on the super rich are what’s wrong with our economy. there is absolutely no reason to believe that if the rich had more money they would use in ways that benefit average americans.

Doesn’t charm school teach you to say ” charming or fantastic” instead of bullsh-t?
Of course you have to use the right inflection when you say it. You draw out the word and smirk.

As a great grandmother who worked for the railroad for over 30 years I can cuss with the best of them

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

Does anyone remember when the government took over a brothel in Nevada? They lost money.
Now if they can not run a business selling sex and booze, can they run health care or a automobile co?

just wondering.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

What is going to happen when the rich tell Obama, “screw you” and refuse to pay for his health care bill or his Crap and Trade bill?

JosefAL
Your stupidity knows no bounds. Figures. Regardless of what you believe there are some firm, hard facts. More than 1/3rd of the people who filed taxes in Maryland in 2007 who made more than 1 million dollars have left the state. When they leave they take their money and go to states that do not tax income. Very simple.

I don’t give a fuck what you think about this, it is a hard fact. The cost? Working people in Maryland–housekeepers, gardners, landscapers, restaurants, etc–lose money because those folks who made millions and then spent their money in Maryland are now spending their money in other states. People in tax free states will get a boost. But folks in places like Maryland and New York will suffer.

Idiot!!

This wekend marks the beginning of a new, higher sales tax in Massachusetts. The Massholes in the state govt. are so concerned with the notion that MA residents will come across the border into New Hampshire to shop, they actually had the nerve to tell NH we need to collect additional taxes from these people to reimburse MA. Of course, the NH legislature said NFW. (It’s such a stupid idea to begin with, but to ask NH to collect taxes for MA is insane. Live free or die anyone?)

NH is terribly pleased with the MA method for increasing revenues in our state (NH). In fact, more and more people who work in Boston are moving across the state line into my town. We’re about an hour away from Boston and we don’t have income tax or sales tax.

Thanks, Gov. Patrick for making my state a wealthier, better place to live.

huh. “fair share.” if i create the job, take all the risk… who decides what my “fair share” is?

People who live in Pennsylvania go to Delaware to buy due to no sales tax.
They used to go to New Jersey on Sundays due to what were called the blue laws.
Stupid laws just give people incentive to work around them. It has always been that way and it will always be that way.
Taxes are not used for the welfare of the people anymore. Today taxes collected go to bonuses for bad managers and paychecks for people who no longer represent the people who elected them.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

While Federal income taxes are lower now than in the 50′s, state and local taxes have, on average, doubled. That makes a big difference, because the TOTAL tax burden can climb to well over 50%. Also, the definition of “taxable income” has varied greatly over the decades, so its really not an apples-to-apples comparison.

I’m not one who is totally anti-tax. I think that the very top could pay a little more. But in a global economy where people can get fed up and go away, you’d better be very careful about imposing 70% federal taxes again, given the amount some state and local govts are extracting. Capital flight is indeed a risk in REALITY, whether you like that truth or not.

Reality does not always conform to one’s ideology, no matter how well-intended or noble that ideology may be. Reality has no sense whatsoever of “fairness”. It is what it is. We learned that with the ridiculousness of Reaganomics, and we will also learn it with bloated govt. and insane spending. Balance is a rare thing, and hard to maintain.

exactly, yttik!! this meme of THE RICH ARE EVIL TAX THE RICH is reeeeeally getting old. and no, i’m not even close to being rich.

Who defines fair share? And how do you determine that?

Don’t you love all this “fair share” “leveling the playing field” “redistributing the wealth”–these guys are thug robin hoods taking from the rich and keeping it all for themselves–yes, the poor, the desperate masses, still need to wake up to their messiah–or should I say the 21st century Rasputin.

You are missing the most important part of that time period.

The US actually manufactured a lot of the items Americans used/bought then…..and now we don’t.

Also, what industry is supposed to stick around and get taxed at 70% when they can move to Ireland and get taxed at 12%?

Different world now.

CEO Compensation as a Multiple of Average Employee Compensation in 2000 lists the US at 536:1; our nearest competitor in the world was Brazil at 57 to 1.

I’d say that proves the rich are soaking the poor. America is a “winner take all” country.

If I made more than 1 mil a year, I wouldn’t mind paying and extra 1% in taxes, and I wouldn’t file taxes at my summer home just to avoid it. FFS, why do so many Americans defend the rich guy? No wonder they are rich, noone stands up to them and are embarrassingly grateful for the peanuts they receive from them. In America, unions are bad. In Holland, unions are required in companies with more than a certain amount of employees.

It seems to me that many rich people are only charitable to get their names on a hospital wing or high rise building to show what wonderful humanitarians they are. Yet they do everything they can to short change their employees and the IRS every chance they get. Warren Buffet points out that his secretary pays a higher percentage of taxes than he does. WTF? Our tax laws suck. The rich don’t want to pay fair taxes because it’s anonymous. It’s much better to promote your “charitable” name than pay your taxes.

Speaking of which, Bono and U2 (as artists and authors) used to receive taxfree income in Ireland. After decades of enjoying tax breaks in their native country, they moved their business to Holland in 2006 to avoid Ireland’s new taxes which now included them.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/bono_avoids_taxes_joins_forbes.htm

You remember Bono, that humanitarian who urged US taxpayers to help other countries. With + – $700,000,000, maybe Bono can put his money where his mouth is. He can even put his name on his contributions, Bono-bucks or something.

Pity for the rich, not from me.

That’s my main beef. I would gladly pay a few more taxes for much improved public services from the Feds (like decent healthcare.)

But tell ya what, start showing me that you can wisely spend the money I already give you, THEN I will consider giving you more. So long as you are spending it on pork and garbage, and 40-million employees to do yet more paperwork, and film festivals, and bullshit grants for bullshit “studies”, and banksters and cronies, you can STFU about how you need more from me.

Yup and the sales tax is steep – but, you sort of forget about it since you would have bought the item(s) anyway.

It’s psychological. You don’t feeling like you’re getting two hands in your hind pocket. Sales Tax AND Personal Income Tax.

Just sending a smile your way.

Yeah. I have worked for quite a few millionairs and billionairs, but I don’t recall ever working for anyone making minimum wages. So, yes, I can see where it would put a state and minimum wage workers in a bind.

That wont happen. The cap and trade, and health care bills will make his wealthy supporters money! I’d be willing to bet that Obama’s “advisers” who wrote these shit bills are already heavily invested into those markets. It’s the same thing The One has always done. He promises to help the poor…and he does alright! He helps the poor go from struggling to get by…to living homeless or just dying from lack of heat etc.

Come om people, Obama’s politics aren’t that hard to figure out! If you are rich…and willing to bow down and kiss his ass! Then he will help you out. If you are poor and worship him…he will claim to be going to help you out, while never actually doing it. And if you don’t worship at the altar of the Obamessiah at all…well then fuck you!

Oh please…

The way I see this is this. They are going to pick us off one group at a time. They have already tacked on a large tax on cigarettes. No one much said anything because maybe we didn’t smoke.

They are going to tax things that make people fat. So we say nothing because maybe we are not fat.

Waxman has introduced a bill that will put many small farmers out of business.

Congress has now voted to restrict Wall Streets pay.
House votes to clamp limits on Wall Street bonuses

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090731/ap_on_go_co/us_bailout_bonuses

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn’t a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out

I suggest that we all read and understand the meaning and how it pertains to today.

We should emulate the Danish people in their legendary efforts to save the Jewish people in that country by wearing the yellow star.

It’s not about color, or wealth it is divide and conquer. We have to stand together against tyranny, if this country we love is to survive.

Great example! And well said.

The state of CA receives 50% of its tax revenues from the top 1% of its population. Guess how that is working for CA these days? CA had revenue declines over fiscal 2007 and 2008 of more than 60 billion $$$. It sounds great to make the rich pay, and they should pay, but if your tax base gets to the point where it is dependent on the fortunes of only 1% of the population, when that 1% hits hard times you are in big trouble. Even now in the US we have almost 50% of the population NOT paying any income taxes. That is not good from many perspectives. The base needs to be broad; the rate at the bottom ends does not have to be high. I think none of us should get a free ride. We all need to have a little skin in the game. Some should have a lot of skin in the game.

Don’t forget that the Bush 2 tax cuts gave real tax breaks to the top 10% and the reduction in the taxes on capital gains added to that. But some of those tax breaks are scheduled to expire; they were not all permanent. In fact I think they expire in 2010 or 2011 which is about the time the economy should be gathering steam and moving ahead. It will be interesting to see, assuming they do sunset those breaks, what effect that will have on economic recovery.

We also had a huge amount of cold war spending on tanks and missiles and hardware, etc. in that manufacturing sector, that drove the economy for a looooong time. Decades.

i’m not even close to being rich.

Possibly because you feed and enable the rich?

“To whom much is given, much is expected.”

I don’t think an extra 1% is exactly “much”, but I guess to selfish millionaires, it’s “too much.”

Laughing Out Loud!

And we’re going to have to carefully monitor their e-mail transactions to make sure they aren’t trying to wire the moola to any offshore accounts . . .

When was the last time you invested your money and your spirit into something that could fail or succeed on a huge scale? My guess for you Blue Topaz? Never.

When was the last time you invested in a design or an idea or an entertainment enterprise or an industry that you were not very nearly 100% certain you would see a return on your investment? And I’m not talking about mutual funds or your house or your education or your 401-K…or even your children. Quite frankly, those are easy and very nearly, at least in America, sure things.

I’m talking about true risk taking.

If you had EVER taken a risk and either failed miserably or succeeded brilliantly on the level I am talking about, you would see the complete and absolute idiocy of your comment.

Success does not mean you have to feed and care for the masses who were not willing to venture out on their own and I, for one, am growing weary of the prevailing attitude of many Americans to go after those who have more than they do because, why? Because you’re entitled to it? No. You. Are. Not.

Like it or not, on some levels, we are not all equal. That’s called life.

Mandelay,
A very perceptive post. I live in Oregon and because of the downturn of building new housing and our being a timber state, there are two counties that have over 20 percent unemployment. When our country’s manufacturing base leaves what is going to be left for the rest of us to do? A very short-sighted way of doing business by our politicians. But then I blame oilsoc’s crappy redistributing the wealth policies for what’s happening right now.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Sorry I can’t supply you with specifics, but it’s a good guideline.

“To whom much is given, much is expected.”

And what makes you think those who make a million dollars a year are given the money? Quite often they earn it. They spend 13 years of school between college, medical and dental schools and advanced training to become world class facial trauma surgeons, open a medical practice, hire 4 full time employees, treat uninsured victims of drive by gang bang shootings & abusive spouse beatings, work 60 hours a week, spend 24 hour shifts on call at the hospital, do pro bono oral surgery on the poor and travel sometimes to lecture to fellow doctors and medical students. That’s what my friend does so he can make a million dollars a year BEFORE expenses. From that he pays his employees (and pays for their medical & dental insurance than you very much), makes payments towards his student loans and all the medical equipment he had to buy for his medical practice since he does in office procedures, he pays the monthly rent on his medical space ($8300 a month), purchases supplies and medical necessities for his practice so he can treat his patients, and of course has to purchase his malpractice insurance. Both Medical AND dental malpractice insurance. This is my friend and he wasn’t given a d*mn thing. He has worked his butt off to establish a medical career and a reputation for himself. Then after paying all business expenses, he takes whatever money is left over each month to support himself, his wife and their 3 children.

He does not mind paying taxes. He doesn’t mind he pays more than lower income people. But he wants to be recognized and respected as someone contributing to society, giving people jobs and trying to help others in this world. And attitudes that it’s all luck & he was given much so much is expected in return is BS.

Ah, I see, a cop out. And quoting a Bible verse and suggesting it be enacted as forcible law? Tsk tsk, I thought only fundamentalist right-wingers did that.

And the “rich” DO pay more. They may not pay as much more as you or even I think they should, but to say they don’t pay more is ridiculous. Much IS expected of them, and they pay it. The top 5% pay a higher marginal rate, and pay over 60% of all taxes collected in this country. 50% of the country pays less than 3% of all taxes.

So where is the line for how much the bottom 50% can demand from the top 50%? IS there a line? Who gets to decide where the line is?

Because I think the line is in a different spot than you do, I’m in favor of selfishness? These are legitimate questions. I figure that over half of one’s income going to the govt (state and federal and local) is the limit. Where do YOU think the line is? Or is the only answer you are happy with “more”?

(and pays for their medical & dental insurance than you very much),

You are so very welcome. (?) Your Dr. friend sounds like he is indeed giving back.

I am not religious so I don’t normally quote or paraphrase the bible, unless it fits. Again, I’m not religious, but I believe “given” is meant in the broader sense of talent, brains, brawn, power, ability etc. not just money or possesions.

I’m glad your friend gives back, it’s to those that don’t give back that I am refering.

What about a flat 15% no deductions.

If you want to “re-distribute” you must not tax income you must tax property.

To me these facts just prove that many millionaires are too f^cking cheap and miserly to give back. They’d rather leave town, family and friends then to pay 1% more in taxes. Boo f^cking hoo!

I wonder, did Bono live in MA? LOL

I don’t make over $1mil/per yr, but from most of the comments, I have to conclude I am in the company of millionaires. 1.25% is $125K per years added taxes. The average taxpayer has paid 30% in income taxes for years while the very rich have hired tax attorneys to find loop holes.

Bush reduced tax on capital gains and dividends and completely eliminated estate taxes. More new millionaires were created during his eight years in office than any other time in our history. Social programs were underfunded or eliminated, but there was no reduction in defense spending if the cost of two wars are added onto the total.

He is the first “war time president to ever lower taxes. He turned a balanced budget and projected surplus into the largest deficit the country has ever had. Cheney’s friends from KBR and Haliburton made out like bandits while the rest of us paid our “fair share” .

Individual wealth does not create jobs unless nannies, housekeepers, gardeners and high end shop, cars and houses are going to restore the 6mil jobs lost. There is a contradiction here that I am at a loss to understand. We give the banks, car and insurance companies billions to bail them out because they pay their exes too much, steal too much and mismanage too much, but we are supposed to feel sorry for the rich when they have to pay a little more?

I am not in favor of redistributing the wealth and I doubt Obama will make any effort to pay down the debt, but the wealthy in a state should have no problem keeping the services of their communities running.

you tell me. are you saying that is no such thing as a “fair share?” if so, then there’s no point in discussing the matter.

all i can tell you that over the last 50 years or so, the overall tax burden has been shifted down (onto the poorer people), not up, and it has not been good for america. why should average americans allow it to go any further this way? sorry, but i’m not buying “trickle down” economics. no f-ing way.

i might add, that CEOs making 400-500 times what their average workers make is NOT a fair share, IMO. if you think it is, then we’ll have to agree to disagree. a few decades ago CEOs were making about 40 times what the average worker made. is america any better off now that the rich are even richer? doesn’t seem like it to me.

the “redistribution” has been going on for ages – from the bottom to the top, not the other way around. that’s why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. i’m not sure about a flat tax, but yes, taxing “income” is not really the best way to do things.

it is pointless to argue about these anecdotal cases of people who “work hard” and make a million, but are really good people, etc. a whole lot of people work hard, year in, year out, and never make a million dollars. the important thing is that OVERALL, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. i’m of the opinion that this is wrong and bad for america.

and nobody is defending lazy welfare cheats who refuse to work, then complain about being poor; i am talking about hard working people who see their salaries stagnating, or worth less, year after year, but at the same time, some how or another, there is enough money for those at the top to accumulate ever greater amounts of wealth. something has to change, or america is never coming out of this recession.

several posters have talked about the rich “creating” jobs; i would say that that is only partially true. business owners AND customers “create jobs.” if there were no customers with money to spend, i.e. us average workers/consumers, there would be no jobs created. when consumers can’t afford to buy anything because the upper management of their companies is accumulating the companys’ profits instead of putting them into worker salaries, recession is bound to occur. then we are told that those at the bottom must take further cuts in their salaries/benefits, etc. in order to get us out of the recession.

no one is saying that business owners, CEOs, managers, etc. shouldn’t make more than the lowest workers at the bottom, for christ’s sake, of course they should. but how much?

social darwinism works both ways, you know. if those at the top use their power to fuck the workers at the bottom, then the people at the bottom will use their power to fuck those at the top. why is one right, and the other wrong?

look, i am not a communist or a socialist, by any stretch of the imagination, but i believe in fairness, and it is obvious that average workers have not been getting a fair shake in this country for a long time.

word.

you are correct; the proof is in the pudding. if giving the rich more money created jobs and was good for america, we wouldn’t be in a recession right now. it’s that simple.

“income tax” is hardly the only form of taxation that exists in america. those at the bottom actually pay a higher portion of their income in taxes that those at the top.

let’s turn around Larry’s headline:
What happens when you give away the store to the rich?

answer: america goes into recession.

When was the last time you invested your money and your spirit into something that could fail or succeed on a huge scale? My guess for you Blue Topaz? Never.

Well, my dear cheerleader, since you so politely asked and w/o ASS U ming anything about me what-so-ever, I’ll tell you.

I’ve been buying supplies for my invention (is a unique craft an invention?) for years. Last year I applied for the tradmark, bought the web domains (someone already had the .com I wanted and has a poem posted on it so I got the .net, .org, .info as well simialar spellings of my trademark in .com).

After maxing out a few credit cards, I went to my first Craft Fair where, before I had sold a single item, a woman came up to me and said, “That’s a good idea. I’m going to tell my friends from MI about it so they can steal your idea.” She actually used the word “steal”. I almost cried. This was last Nov., just after the official recession so people were not buying much.

I’m talking about true risk taking.

Does leaving a coveted Amsterdam apartment, a job selling diamonds, healthcare, 5+ weeks paid vacation, unlimited sickleave, liberal soft drug laws to return stateside because of my mother’s cancer count?

If that doesn’t meet your “risk taking” standards, add to that the fact that I gave all that up to pee in a UA cup for shitty paying jobs and to have my jealous eldest brother (who never left home) choke me and pound my face (he was 46, I was 42) on my mom’s birthday just because I used the washing machine first (wish Crowley had been one of the cops, they did nothing).

Oh yeah, these great jobs in America, same entry level job in A’dam = more salary and benefits. And try to find a Spanish speaking job in the US as a Gringa! You get teenage 1st generation Hispanic Yanks whose Spanish is not as good as yours telling you you’re not qualified for the bi-lingual position so they’ll start you on the English which pays less. I sold diamonds and hotel rooms in 6 languages in Europe, and in the 80′s I took calls for lost/stolen credit cards in Spanish here in the US, yet I’m not qualified to take Spanish phone orders for party supplies in the US?

?

Need more? How about buying a one-way ticket to Europe in the first place, a young woman traveling alone?

Still not good enough? How about paying big bucks (Dutch Guilders, actually) to trademark your band’s name in the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands (Holland) and Luxembourg)? Since I’m not a famous rock star (Although, I was on live UK TV with may fav. songwriter RAY DAVIES, though unfortunately not in a musical capacity), it wasn’t a 100% certainty, now was it?

Everything you ASS U med about me was wrong, except the 401K (my return to Europe fund). Pls, don’t YOU ever dabble in the stock market, your instincts SUCK!

Success does not mean you have to feed and care for the masses who were not willing to venture out on their own and I, for one, am growing weary of the prevailing attitude of many Americans to go after those who have more than they do because, why? Because you’re entitled to it? No. You. Are. Not.

Ah yes, the ol’ poor = lazy mentality. I guess you’re so far removed from the real world to be familiar with the new term “Working Poor”. While the meaning should be evident, I’ll explain, just in case. You see, all over the richest country in the world, there are people who work, 2, 3 sometimes 4 jobs at a time just to pay the bills. They don’t have the time to pay attention to politics and current events so the vote for men like Bush and Obama. They don’t have the time or money to go on vacation like rich Americans and average income Europeans do, but that’s ok, they need the money so they will work during that 1 week anyway.

Like it or not, on some levels, we are not all equal. That’s called life.

Wow, are you ASS U ming that you are “more equal” than I (or others) just because I think conditions in America unfairly favor the Haves? Really? Who the hell do you think you are, Jesus Christ? Judas, more like. You have a very ugly soul.

Aren’t you glad you were so condescending and presumptuous? Got a mirror? Try using it!

Dude, mellow out, smoke a joint or take your meds. I was just trying to help. You sure read a lot into my 2 sentences.

And the “rich” DO pay more.

Really, even Leona Helmsley?

The top 5% pay a higher marginal rate

Who pays more percentage-wise? Warren Buffet says his secretary pays a higher percentage of income tax than he does. How about the teacher who quietly donates 10% of her income to charity (a higher % if you’re talking “expendable income”). Oprah seems to only give to charity while she self promotes which ends up making her richer, btw. Funny how the percentage rate declines as the amount rises. Then there’s the guy who volunteers 5-10 hours a week (for Good Will). How many millionaires do that w/o self-promoting. As an event photographer, I’ve taken pictures of charity events where a great deal of the “donations” goes for the swanky party, food, entertainment, speakers, etc. The “philanthropists” have a great party, make business contacts and deals, while the charity gets the left-overs, if any. Using the name of charities to pay for business parties and events is dispicable.

So where is the line for how much the bottom 50% can demand from the top 50%? IS there a line? Who gets to decide where the line is?

Well, IMHO, I think the wealthy should pay 50%, the rich = 40%, middleclass = 30% and so on.

Or is the only answer you are happy with “more”?

Wow, another patsy to the wealthy totally ASS U ming the wrong things about me. You rich man’s butt-boys aren’t too bright, are you. I don’t think “Cop out” is even the correct usage here, but it does make me want quote Cheney 3x. Once for the “cop out” and tsk tsk arrogance, twice for the over-reaction to my 20 words, and thrice for being the rich man’s enabler and butt-boy. Reminds me of Obots.

it seems a bit disingenuous to now backpedal

That’s right, you know what everyone’s thinking before they do.

Just curious, how much do the rich and wealthy pay you to be their butt-boy/enabler/spokesperson?

Nothing? OMG, no wonder they are rich and you’re not!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

My obsevation…

You tax the rich because they are the ones that have the money.

Having problems posting this. Why?

Success does not mean you have to feed and care for the masses who were not willing to venture out on their own and I, for one, am growing weary of the prevailing attitude of many Americans to go after those who have more than they do because, why? Because you’re entitled to it? No. You. Are. Not.

Ah yes, the ol’ poor = lazy mentality. I guess you’re so far removed from the real world to be familiar with the new term “Working Poor”. While the meaning should be evident, I’ll explain, just in case. You see, all over the richest country in the world, there are people who work, 2, 3 sometimes 4 jobs at a time just to pay the bills. They don’t have the time to pay attention to politics and current events so the vote for men like Bush and Obama. They don’t have the time or money to go on vacation like rich Americans and average income Europeans do, but that’s ok, they need the money so they will work during that 1 week anyway.

Like it or not, on some levels, we are not all equal. That’s called life.

Wow, are you ASS U ming that you are “more equal” than I (or others) just because I think conditions in America unfairly favor the Haves? Really? Who the hell do you think you are, Jesus Christ? Judas, more like. You have a very ugly soul.

Aren’t you glad you were so condescending and presumptuous? Got a mirror? Try using it!

You are so right!

testing

Dear censor,

If my post are inappropriate (or more so than others on this thread), then please delete what you find so offensive (I can’t figure it out) but leave the points I’m making.

Again, you this post was NOT discussing multi-billionaires, it was discussing “the rich” as those making 1 million or more. So Warren Buffet has nothing to do with it.

Actually, I was born dirt poor to a single mom, lived poor most of my life, dropped out of high school, married young, divorced, and woke up homeless with 2 small children, a $300 car, and $500 to my name at 30 years old.

I went back to school, then college, and my household income is now mid – six figures, and at one time I helped employ 5 other people at better-than-average wages. If you think that is “the rich paying me to be their butt boy”, think again. It’s called initiative and WORK.

And I’ve said repeatedly on this thread that yes, those with more should pay more, That I have no issue with paying more, but that those with less do not have an unlimited right to my paycheck, and taxing those making over a million at 90% is not going to solve the oligarchy problem in this country. I simply wanted to know where the limits were in your “they owe me” ranting. The Buffets and billionaire tax-dodgers of the world are on another playing field entirely than most of those whom you and others on this thread are calling “rich”, and weren’t in any way the topic of discussion.

Success does not mean you have to feed and care for the masses who were not willing to venture out on their own and I, for one, am growing weary of the prevailing attitude of many Americans to go after those who have more than they do because, why? Because you’re entitled to it? No. You. Are. Not.

Ah yes, the ol’ poor = lazy mentality. I guess you’re so far removed from the real world to be familiar with the new term “Working Poor”. While the meaning should be evident, I’ll explain, just in case. You see, all over the richest country in the world, there are people who work, 2, 3 sometimes 4 jobs at a time just to pay the bills. They don’t have the time to pay attention to politics and current events so the vote for men like Bush and Obama. They don’t have the time or money to go on vacation like rich Americans and average income Europeans do, but that’s ok, they need the money so they will work during that 1 week anyway.

No, Blue Topaz, you weren’t only referring to “those who don’t give back”. You were lumping ALL people over a certain income as rich evil parasites oppressing you. And people responded to you accordingly.

what you said

RE: your post of 20:20

Success does not mean you have to feed and care for the masses who were not willing to venture out on their own and I, for one, am growing weary of the prevailing attitude of many Americans to go after those who have more than they do because, why? Because you’re entitled to it? No. You. Are. Not.

Ah yes, the ol’ poor = lazy mentality. I guess you’re so far removed from the real world to be familiar with the new term “Working Poor”. While the meaning should be evident, I’ll explain, just in case. You see, all over the richest country in the world, there are people who work, 2, 3 sometimes 4 jobs at a time just to pay the bills. They don’t have the time to pay attention to politics and current events so the vote for men like Bush and Obama. They don’t have the time or money to go on vacation like rich Americans and average income Europeans do, but that’s ok, they need the money so they will work during that 1 week anyway.

Like it or not, on some levels, we are not all equal. That’s called life.

Wow, are you ASS U ming that you are “more equal” than I (or others) just because I think conditions in America unfairly favor the Haves? Really? Who the hell do you think you are, Bono?

Aren’t you glad you were so condescending and presumptuous? Got a mirror? Try using it!

lol, i just didn’t read the article that well!
But even 1 mil puts one in the top 10%. I’m not crying in my beer for you either.

Kut!!!!

testing again?

(not to mention, all of those oligarchs DO earn a million or more, they are just on the far far side of more).

srsly.

I agree, but the mechanisms that shield and protect the oligarchs (by definition in bed with our govt) of this country have VERY LITTLE to do with the tax rates, and much to do with loopholes and govt preference in regulations, oversight, etc.

If you think drastically hiking tax rates is going to hurt them, THINK AGAIN. They have firewalls. It will only hurt a hell of a lot of real businesses that DO employ people and produce something, not just play with money and shuffle it around.

I understand your frustration. I AGREE with your frustration. I am not a winger – not even close. What I am trying to tell you is that what what looks and feels like a simple and emotionally satisfying solution is not going to do JACK SHIT to change the true power structure in this country.

No, that’s not proof. What created this recession was not the tax rates. What created it was complete and total lack of policing of the markets, allowing speculators to gamble wildly steal like bandits, and leverage up up up with no oversight at all, until it crashed.

Higher tax rates would not have prevented it, and won’t prevent it in the future. You are focusing on the wrong thing.

Well said!

When Warren Buffet’s tax rate is at 17% and his executive assistant’s $69,000 a year salary is taxed at 30% something is seriously wrong.

Much of what this recession has shown us is that the so-called wealth created by many of the wealthy in this country was nothing more than a glorified shell game; plain and simple. [Bernie Madoff anyone?]

In the 1950′s under Eisenhower, a Republican, the top 1% in this country were taxed at 90% and yet there were still millionaires in this country. Maybe not billionaires but we had an industrial base in this country that created a true middle class with pensions, 1 car, a home, the yearly vacation and money to send kids to college with.

Even the CATO institute, a conservative think tank, which was founded on the principle that lowering taxes lowers spending found quite the opposite to be true. For every 1.5% cut in taxes there was an equal 1.5% increase in spending. For every 1.5% increase in taxes there was an equal 1.5% decrease in spending. [ its like paying for Christmas on credit versus taking cash only to the mall!]

For all of you out there who are of the mindset that the wealthy should not be progressively taxed then I have one thing to say. All of these companies that have received Federal bailout money should have been left to fail; plain and simple. If these people should reap the most when things go well, so too then should they suffer when they run a company into the ground.

My money and yours have gone to propping these companies up, while they give bonuses with that same money, for services “not rendered”!

We could have done more to spur on the economy by putting that money into college grants, and pockets of everyday workers who would have in turn immediately taken that money and put it back into the economy due to immediate needs.

However, how is that bank bailout going? How much money and lines of credit have the banks made available to those same small businesses that were promised that lines of credit would be made available if the bank bailout was supported? Not so much!

I may not be an idle spendthrift but I sure as hell have had it with the way things have been going; under both Republican and Democratic “fat cat” leadership!!

And that “giving away the store” that caused this recession had little or nothing to do with the tax rates on millionaires. Nothing. It had to do with the Glass-Steagal Act, and the SEC being captured, and Fannie and Freddie, and lax regulatory agencies. But tax rates? Not so much.

It is truly fascinating that the oligarchy are likely quite happy for you to be yelling “Tax the Rich!” (and defining that as anyone making a million) as it keeps you occupied, focuses you on the wrong enemy, and leaves them free to loot some more.

Giving back to me is following the law and allowing others the opportunity to prosper according to their own needs. By employing those 4 workers, he supports their families allowing them to spend their salaries buying material goods that others make which helps create jobs. By buying equipment, he gives work to those who make and sell that equipment, by paying his monthly rent on his medical practice, that money is used by the landlord to pay his own employees who then go out and spend money and so on.

My friend wouldn’t have to do one bit of pro-bono work to be giving back. Just by employing others and treating them nicely and fairly so that they enjoy good working conditions while making money to support their families, is giving back to society! In fact, this selfish man took his staff and their spouses on a trip to Hawaii one year. Closed down the office and paid for their tickets and hotel rooms as a thank you for the hard work and financial sacrifices they made the first few years of his practice opening. Big bad mean rich guy.

Funny thing is, your posts are very quick to point out ALL the great things you had but gave up to return to America. The things that many low to middle income people would be very jealous of and will never experience in their life. You seem very happy to boast about your accomplishments and what you’ve done and your new craft that if it takes off, could quite possibly make you a millionaire.

Frankly I think your anger towards rich people is displaced anger towards your mother and brother for making you give up your wonderful life in Amsterdam to return to America and the resulting struggles.

When they decide enough is enough and move the money away to another state or country, then what are you going to do?

Is that it? splitting hairs about the definition of rich? What about my other comments. Make too much sense for you?

Since Buffett has +- 42,000 million (?), he is still a miillionaire.

Who said anything about 90% taxes? Were MA’s taxes at 88.75 percent before the hike?

Yes, yes, I know someone with 1 mil vs. those with more. I don’t think it’s such a deviation to include multi-millionaires and billionaires. Whatever you need to avoid commenting on my sound arguements.

Don’t you think it’s a tad bit ridiculous for someone with 1 mil. to move house over $10,000?

I will say this. Knowing who is now in control of the WH and senate, I don’t want to pay 1 dime in taxes!!!!!!!

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

You were lumping ALL people over a certain income as rich evil parasites oppressing you.

Really, you think you know exactly what I mean? Are you that way with everyone, or am I just lucky?

I mentioned Buffett. Remember him, the guy that is giving the bulk of his fortune to charity. I didn’t lump him into the “rich evil parasites oppressing you” group. Btw, your words and misinterpretation, not mine. Buffett also feels the tax rates are unfair to the lower classes. You gotta admire a wealthy person who states this publicly. It sucks that he supports Zero, though. Well, he’s still a dem., I’m not.

this selfish man took his staff and their spouses on a trip

You really should stop insulting your friend. He sounds like a wonderful, generous person who gives back naturally, unlike you. I knew someone would say that all the rich have to do is employ people and they are off the “giving back” hook. I don’t see the difference in giving employment or giving labor. Both are necessary, don’t you think? I’m sure slave owners patted themselves on the back for providing homes, food, daily activities (snark) to their slaves, not to mention whips and chains.

your posts are very quick to point out ALL the great things you had but gave up to return to America

OMG, that’s funny! 1st of all I wasn’t quick to point out anything. It took hours to write and post these things. From losing my text 2x to storm related power outages, to posting them and have them disappear, to rewriting yet again and saving them in Word just in case, to seeing some “tests” post immediately while previous post didn’t. Nothing quick about staying up ’til sunrise trying to answer to the cheerleader’s ridiculous accusations. Btw, I didn’t list ALL the things I gave up, there were many more.

You seem very happy to boast about your accomplishments

Again, just answering to the Pom-Poms ignorance.

your new craft that if it takes off, could quite possibly make you a millionaire.

That would be great. Hopefully I’ll be able to get the name recognition for MY IDEA before MI copies it. And if it does eventually make me a millionaire, I won’t be moving house to save on taxes. In fact, my move back to Amsterdam will cost me more in taxes. Plus, I’ll be paying taxes to 2 countries. Unless Americans keep allowing elections to be stolen. If this keeps up, I’ll give up my US citizenship.

I think your anger towards rich people is displaced anger towards your mother and brother for making you give up your wonderful life

It’s not displaced. There’s plenty of anger to go around. I am angry at stingy (not all) rich people that think they are entitled to the good life while treating the have-nots like they are all lazy (working poor!!!!). Funny, Bono was a loser living on the dole. Then he got rich and didn’t want to support the dole with his taxes.
I’m mad at my brother for beating the shit out of us almost daily while growing up (then once again when I was 42). I’m mad at my mom for not believing us when we told her about the dictator’s beatings. She gets a pass, though. My dad died when I was 2, the dictator was 6 and there were 3 in between. Mom worked 3 jobs and just didn’t have the energy to discipline us, him especially.

??

And I’m mad at myself for believing my mom when she said there would be no problem with the dictator if I moved back. Worst f^cking, life altering, mistake of my life! Live and learn.

lol, we are agreeing with you.

putting that money into college grants, and pockets of everyday workers who would have in turn immediately taken that money and put it back into the economy due to immediate needs.

Exactly!!!! Give money (more tax breaks) to the rich (who already have their basic needs met) and they might spend it at home, they may sit on it, they might invest it or they’ll spend it in some other country like Russia to become a $25,000,000 space tourist. When the lower class get a break, they will buy what they need and the rich will profit because they are selling the goods and services. Everyone wins in that scenario.

Oh, ok. Thx!

liberals want to LEVEL the playing field alright…in the sense that we Leveled Nagasaki…..

Gosh Blue Topaz, your life sounds like a thriller. I’m sorry about being beaten up and all the hard knocks in your life. I lived in Holland for 6 years until my family emigrated to the U.S.
Everyone has made some really good points.

Thanks for the article, LJ, I’m finding all the opinions immensely interesting.

WMCB, yep. Thanks for your posts, they are all so informative and I agree.

your life sounds like a thriller

Thx, is has been a roller coaster, that’s for sure.

I lived in Holland for 6 years until my family emigrated to the U.S.

Bent u ooit teruggegaan, op vakantie of zo?