(bumped up from Thursday morning)

Yesterday I was appalled to watch the Speaker of the House comment on Press Secretary Robert Gibbs’ assertion that the anger at these town halls over health care reform is “manufactured”. The reporter asked, “Do you think there is legitimate grassroots opposition going on out there?”

Nancy Pelosi made the following statement:

“I think they’re Astroturf…you be the judge. They are carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care.”

How dare she? I have heard of bullying tactics but this is beyond the pale. She is cherrypicking a couple of extreme protesters, if indeed they exist, in order to deride the whole as an angry mob. My husband and I were Democrats for thirty years and we have questions and concerns about this overhaul as well. Here’s a hot flash, Ms. Pelosi, my Dad was used as slave labor by people who wore swastikas so I don’t appreciate being grouped in with them.

Average citizens who daily watch our leadership trade places in the clown car have a reason to be worried. Until Ms. Pelosi and every other elitist in Congress, on both sides of the aisle, is willing to be subject to the exact same health care plan, and use it on their own mother, their children and themselves, they have no business sticking it to the rest of us. “Okay for thee but not for me” is not going to cut it.

There is no doubt that both sides “astroturf.” President Obama’s svengali, David Axelrod, is known for this behavior. There will always be groups left or right who will try to bank on to a legitimate protest for their own ends. Yet I have no doubt that the majority of these protesters are legitimate. We are talking about a 1,000 page monstrosity that no one can explain.

Pelosi is talking about overhauling one sixth of our nation’s economy when they have just laid an egg with the stimulus package and $60 billion dollar car bailouts.

Last year I watched the DNC insult anyone who did not buy the “cool” candidate they chose to put on their spaghetti jar. Their bullying tactics drove me away. As brilliant WaPo columnist Marie Cocco put it, their “deafening silence” on what looked to be the media lynching of Hillary Clinton didn’t help either.

People get mad when you question them for one of two reasons. Either they don’t have the answer and don’t want be made to look bad, or they know they are trying to pull a fast one and don’t want you to get a peek behind the curtain. Which is it? If the policy cannot be explained coherently and simply, that means they don’t have it working yet. Pardon my dust, but I thought the ultimate goal was to craft a policy that is better than what we have now.

I do not appreciate being bullied or blown off. People are angry and they are scared. Unemployment is in double digits in my state. My Congressman has been ensconced in his position for 25 years. He runs unopposed so I assure you, he isn’t bothering to have a town hall meeting on health care otherwise I’d be there shouting, too.

We pay their salaries. I do not wish to be told to shut up and sit down by the likes of Ms. Pelosi, who sees fit to negatively classify the opposition because she does not feel like being countermanded.

I can appreciate the President wishes to put forth an ambitious agenda, but this White House is tone deaf. We have moved beyond ego here. I am not concerned with someone racking up “accomplishments” just so they can say they did. We have severe problems in our economy and trying to do all this at once without first making sure you’ve got the right formula is like trying to paint a house in a hurricane.

Nancy Pelosi needs to apologize to the American people for the disrespect she has shown them. We are dealing with the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and we have every right to have all our questions answered.

We can do without the name calling and disrespect from our elected representatives. That is not the way to earn anyone’s trust.

  • Pingback: Tea Partiers Flex Their Muscle, Nancy Pelosi Is Nervous : NO QUARTER()

  • fif

    Please release my last comment 🙂

  • fif

    As usual, I am in complete agreement with you Ani. The irony and hypocrisy of Obama & Co. whining about bullying and astroturfing is just too much. It’s the same patronizing, “we know best,” b.s. Cheney used to use. Which Party is this again? People are rightfully distrustful of government, and after he blew the opportunity to rejuvenate the economy with an honest stimulus package, and instead used billions to bail out his banking buddies, and now the Pharma and insurance industries, he wonders why they are angry and confused? Most of them haven’t even read the damn thing. Tone deaf, indeed, and if they continue this arrogant force, there will be a backlash in the voting booth that they will certainly here. Unless, of course, more of those stimulus funds go to ACORN to manipulate the vote (again).

  • Naturally

    Evidence mounts that recess-rally protests are manufactured PR events, paid for with corporate money and controlled by the Republican Party.

    Koch Industries, the $100 billion/year privately-owned oil company, pharmaceutical companies and health-insurance companies are behind the right-wing, Republican PR (AstroTurf) groups Americans For Prosperity, FreedomWorks, Patients First and Patients United Now, which are paying for buses to take Republican-party hacks from state to state to disrupt public meetings.

    One bus is taking a group to Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Louisiana. Another bus is taking a second group to Nebraska, Colorado, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Iowa, Arkansas and Missouri.


    Leaked memos reveal how the PR groups are orchestrating and scripting the recess-rally PR actions so that they APPEAR to be spontaneous, and representative of constituents’ concerns.



    Don’t let the Republican PR companies control the agenda! Tell Congress and Obama, single-payer or nothing!

    • fif

      And who are YOU astroturfing for Naturally? Obama took Single Payer of the table on Day One.

    • WMCB

      Tell Obama single payer??? LMAOPIMP!!!

      Oh, you poor, sweet, deluded bot. Whatever gave you the idea that Obama was going to do single payer? Really, honey, you need to pay more attention before you vote.

      • Naturally

        Read my comments, dear. I oppose Obama’s health plan, I did not vote for him and I never supported him.

        I’ll say it yet again. I’m for single-payer, universal health INSURANCE. I’m against the the public-option duct-taped to the current for-profit-health-insurance-system bill that Obama favors.

        Get that?

        The fact is, two-thirds of Americans support a single-payer system. That’s not a landslide in U.S. politics; it’s an Earth-shaking number!

        Single-payer works well in other countries around the world. They have better health-care outcomes (we rank 37th) and spend less per capita (we rank 1st). And, the public knows it.

        This frightens the health-insurance oligarchs whose billions in annual profits would disappear if Congress passes single-payer in spite of their man, Obama, saying it is “off the table.”

        Thus, the industry has sent in their PR hounds, in the form of Americans For Prosperity, Patients United Now and Patients First (all industry-funded “AstroTurf” groups) to fear-monger, dis-inform, and bus their operatives from state to state to disrupt public meetings where constituents were likely to press their congress-persons to vote for single-payer.

        It’s the same strategy that successfully shut down the recount in Florida in 2000, and in fact, some of the fake protesters in that famous photograph (see my above posts) now work for Koch Industries, which is funding the recess-rally actions.

        The single-payer bill is H.R. 676. The bill has 93 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives. The text is here: http://johnconyers.com/hr676text

        Estimates are that single-payer would cut family health-care costs by as much as 80%, create 3 million new health-care jobs, and give consumers more access to better health care. The current denial-care system would be over, and 55,000 health-insurance company jobs would go away, along with the aforementioned billions in annual profits.

        To Hell with Obama. Tell CONGRESS to pass single-payer!!!

        • Ani

          Wasn’t it Baucus that was purple faced saying single payer is off the table?

          How are we gonna get there if the president doesn’t want it and congress doesn’t have the stomach. I’m calling and writing my representatives regularly to get heard about this bs of a bill they are trying to pass. So far it is falling on deaf ears.

          If you have any ideas on how to get through, I’d love to hear them. Honestly.

          • ANITA D


            I am a 78-year-old retired orthopedic surgeon who was a registered Republican all my life until 2002, when I discovered that the current Republican Party no longer represented my value system.
            I am now convinced that a national health insurance plan is required and overdue. After due consideration, it is my opinion that a single-payer plan is the most reasonable option to finance this legislation. The health-care system in the United States has largely priced itself out of business.
            When the presidents of the three largest private health insurance companies in the country — UnitedHealth’s Golden Rule Insurance Co., Assurant Health and WellPoint Inc. (parent of Blue Cross of California) — told the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations (June 6, 2009) that they would not discontinue their practice of rescission of ill patients, I thought they had driven the final nail in the coffin of private health insurance companies.
            However, it seems not to have even caused a ripple of discontent within Congress. In my opinion, and in the opinion of the majority of health-care providers, the single-payer plan makes the most sense. It is favored by approximately 72 percent of American citizens, according to a recent poll. It would definitely be the most economical approach as it would not be required to pay dividends nor the obscene pay packages for executive officers. The administrative costs would be much less than those of our multiple carriers as they would not have hired so many claims adjusters to attempt to find some reason to weasel out of paying a claim or canceling policies on gravely ill patients.
            We owe nothing to insurance companies
            It would eliminate most, if not all, health insurance companies. So what? We owe the insurance companies of this nation nothing.
            They would never write flood insurance policies, so the federal government had to provide it. They stopped writing earthquake insurance, so the state governments had to provide it. They stopped writing professional liability insurance for physicians, so the physicians had to form cooperatives to provide it for themselves.
            So why not have the federal government provide health insurance to all of its citizens? It is not socialized medicine; it is health insurance offered by the United States of America. Medicare has worked out pretty well. I believe all taxpayers should pay a premium with their income taxes on a progressive sliding scale like our income taxes, with those most able to pay contributing the most. Also, employers should pay something for each and every employee, as the medical costs of workers’ compensation insurance would have been eliminated. Everyone who is able would pay something, but it would certainly be a lot less expensive than today’s private insurance.
            I personally see the single-payer route a win-win situation. If Congress passes a bill that does not at least carry the option of a public, government-run health insurance plan, I hope President Obama will veto it. I am extremely angry that our real enemy for change is within our own party. I can’t believe that Sen. Max Baucus, D-Montana, at the beginning of his committee’s hearing on health care, indicated that “single payer was off the table.”
            Democrats should use their power
            Forget bipartisanism. Bipartisanism was slain by the Republicans on Inauguration Day. We have the numbers; let’s go for the jugular! If legislation providing national health insurance as well as legislation regulating fossil fuel use and a crash program of developing and installation of green energy with the consequent lessening of our dependence on foreign oil is not enacted, I can guarantee you that the Democratic Party will lose seats in Congress regardless of how much money is thrown around in the election of 2010.
            Democrats, please close ranks before it is too late
            Dear Mr. President this letter was from a Doctor in my home state. Mr President we need Single Payer, I need single payer, my children and grandchildren need single payer. We gave you a resounding win a democratic House and Senate, and somehow you people cannot walk in lockstep a lousy six months to get the most important legislation of our lifetimes done. We are trying to organize a million plus person march on Washington the day congress and the senate get back to Washington. Our rallying cry will be “Everybody In, Nobody Out”. We will explain to the people that single payer is not a socialist system

    • fif

      You mean the same pharma companies and insurance industry that Obama cut deals with, and are going to use $150 million to advertise in support of the health care plan? Hmmm…

  • Chicago

    Patriots unite! show Queen Nancy how much “manufactured anger” is out there! The biggest Tea Party march for DC is being organized and will end at the steps of the Capitol. Whether you’re a Democrat, Republican, Independent, or Libertarian doesn’t matter at all since we all are going to suffer under the banner of Obama’s Marxist principles! if you can’t attend, donations are certainly welcome. (I am not part of the site nor connected with the organizers of this march, just a concerned citizen willing to do what’s needed in order to stop The One’s Socialist agendas.


    1. What is the symbolism of your logo?

    It was a purposeful decisions to create a defiant image, raised fists against the statist policies of Congress and the president. I think it’s an edgy symbol that communicates the anger and the defiance of the protests happening around the country since early February.

    We have to make sure this is a protest against what’s going on in DC, and we have to convey that image to the country and the world. I fear that if we start to lose that edge, the politicians won’t take us as seriously, and will write us off. We’ve been studying and applying the tactics of the left for a long time, and although we despise their bad ideas, they have us beat when it comes to symbolism, activism and dominating the public debate. We can learn from them and co-opt their symbols, some of their messages and even their tactics.

    We have to remember that this is a March on Washington, which should conjure up images of the street protests in other countries. If we want the politicians to pay attention, we believe it is imperative that we keep our edge, tailor our message narrowly and maintain the populist imagery.

    2. When will you add more details to the site?

    As soon as we make big decisions about things like speakers, the march route, vendors and the like. We plan to hammer out a lot of the details in the next couple of weeks.

    3. Who can attend the March on Washington?

    Anyone that believes in limited government, and wants to see lower taxes, less government and more freedom.

    4. Who will be speaking?

    We will have speakers from all walks of life, including local community leaders, regular citizens, radio hosts and elected officials. But this movement is less about who is speaking on stage, and more about the folks protesting in the streets.

    5. What is the march route?

    We are still putting that together, but we will all end up at the west front of the U.S. Capitol Saturday afternoon. There will likely be more than one starting point for the march, which will start in the morning and end up at the capitol. Make sure you are registered for the event and you will receive email updates periodically with this kind of information.

    6. How are people getting to DC?

    Thousands of people have already made their transportation plans via air, chartered buses, carpools and trains. Ultimately it’s up to you how/when you get to DC for the three day event. If you need some guidance, please visit our “getting here” page.

    7. What is the message of the March on Washington?

    Our message is that governments at all levels have been spending way too much money. The federal government is especially guilty of this, as they pile up the debt, deficits and unfunded liabilities. They are taxing, borrowing or printing money with no end in sight. This madness has to stop, and that is why we are demanding that they stop the wasteful spending and stop burdening taxpayers with more debt.

    This protest is about defending our liberty, and about restoring our Constitution by reducing the size and scope of the federal government.

    8. What can I do to help spread the word about the March on Washington?

    Join our Ning site and connect with others in your state. Tell your friends, family and colleagues to register to attend. Promote the website on facebook, twitter, blogs and other websites. Download and print out flyers to distribute at July 4th protests, and all other events where you might be able to recruit people to attend the March on Washington. Also, take the lead in your community and charter a bus. Gather your own big group and get them to DC any way you can!

  • Arabella Trefoil

    Good work, my No Quarter friends! Keep it up. Your message is getting out.

    My 82 year old mother said the following to me yesterday:

    “I heard a radio ad for Corzine on the radio. It said Obama endorsed him. What kind of horse manure is that? If Obama endorses Corzine, that means Corzine is no good. Corzine must have morons running his campaign. I would never vote for anyone Obama endorses.”

    Later on my mom (a life long Democrat) said “I won’t vote for anyone who supports Obama’s health plan. Make me a list.”

    If my mom is aware of all this “horse manure” being flung at us, it is very bad for Obama. My mom (who still works!) is not very interested in politics and gets her news from TV and Radio. She says that she now know “they (the media) are all liars. How can they lie like that?”

    My mom and her friends are what Democrats call “golden voters.” They voter in every election, even the smallest local ones. Obama has turned many of these people against the Democratic party. I of of several people who are now voting Republican for the first time. No more “Golden voters” and this will hurt Democrats running for office at all levels, including school board, state legislature, etc. Pelosi has no idea of the damage she’s doing. We may start seeing Democratic candidates at the local level turning against the DC Democrats. I’m betting on it.

    Throw them all out!!!!

    • Ani

      Thanks for the report, Arabella. I’m glad to know that this current party leadership is getting an earful and hopefully will pay at the polls. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Franks and Chris Dodd are not representative of the Democrats I grew up with and believed in. I don’t know who these people are, frankly, I just know they are out for themselves.

      To demonize voters in order to silence them is not a practice Dems are going to get away with over the long haul. They are disillusioning a lot of people with these kinds of smears.

  • Dave

    Pelosi is an idiot, she couldn’t tell the truth if her life depended on it ! This woman is in so far over her head, she’s reaching up to touch bottom !!!

  • proud mobster

    Does anyone know anything about the Town Hall Meeting in Boulder Colorado? I heard that even the Liberals were screaming against this Hell Care Bill.

  • Seattle Moss

    Truthfully folks..

    I hope Pelosi and Co keep doing exactly what their doing.
    You don’t need to apologize to me!
    Obama, Nazi Pelosi and the democrats are at war with the American people and will go down in flames of defeat in 2010.

    So keep talking…Everything you say will be used against you real soon.

    • TexasMirth

      Defeat in 2010 for Pelosi & friends — let’s hope you are right, SM.

    • Cindy

      Seattle—That’s my boy! And hey, have you seen this?http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/inconvenient-truth-about-death-panel.html
      GIt’s a great website that vindicates Sarah Palin, and also contains the entire published article of Dr.Mengele, I mean Emanuel (Rahm’s bro).
      Excellent website and info. Just FYI.
      my hubby, the lawyer, read the entire Emanuel thing and found it very disturbing!

  • TexasMirth

    if he said ” it was raining outside” I would check out the windows and also the roof to see if someone was up there with a hose.

    Well said! When your leader is a liar, it becomes way too risky to follow his advice. Obama seems to think the American people are so gullible that he can say one thing to one group and the opposite to another and he won’t be held accountable. It’s insulting.

    And speaking of insulting, let’s hope the people of San Francisco won’t re-elect Pelosi after her appalling comments and conduct. She obviously holds the First Amendment in contempt.

  • hmk_me

    I was a democrat for almost 50years. I did not agree with republicans on a lot of issues, and still do not. But when did they lose the right of free speech or protest? When did dissatified democrats lose those rights?
    when it comes to health care why on earth would I trust backtrack? He has not kept most of his campaign promises, he has no respect for the American people and if he said ” it was raining outside” I would check out the windows and also the roof to see if someone was up there with a hose.
    The congress forgot who they represent and really have to be replaced in 2010 for the good of the country.



    • NoBamaNoWay

      right on.

    • Arabella Trefoil

      I’m in total agreeance with you.

  • Balls

    A bunch of thugs who cannot debate the facts, but would rather stop others from discussion. Not very democratic or freedom loving. By the way I bet half of them are on medicare or will be. It is not so much about protesting healthcare reform, as these people don’t have a clue of the facts, but more like just a hatred of Obama and the Democrats. Just like NQ.

    And yes a lot of this is “astroturf”. A bunch of plants from the corporate healthcare lobbyists or the same people who are the “birthers”.

    As Krugman says today:

    “They may believe some of the disinformation opponents of health care reform are spreading, like the claim that the Obama plan will lead to euthanasia for the elderly. (That particular claim is coming straight from House Republican leaders.) But they’re probably reacting less to what Mr. Obama is doing, or even to what they’ve heard about what he’s doing, than to who he is.”


    and as Joan Walsh says:

    “The “town hells,” in short, don’t represent populism, they’re a display of hysteria fed by lies peddled by GOP leaders and corporate interests. And it’s getting worse.”


    • Ani

      And you do not consider it thuggish for Nancy Pelosi to intimate that these people are all showing up wearing swastikas? There are people who are actually worried about the state of health care under this new (not well thought out) proposal.

      Here are the signals that something may be amiss that a reasonable person regardless of party might have concerns about:

      1. Congress is not willing to sign on to the same plan they wish to stick other Americans with.

      2. Deals with Insurance companies and the WH behind closed doors.

      3. 1,000+ pages no one can yet explain properly, nor have many in Congress read it.

      4. The VA wishes to be exempt from it. And their health care ain’t great to begin with.

      5. People wonder how they will have the same access to health care when you have the same number of doctors but you are adding many millions to the rolls.

      6. Where is the insurance reform?

      These are just a few concerns. Forgive me, but these don’t sound hysterical or like right wing talking points. If people are angry out there, and behaving disrespectfully, perhaps they feel they have likewise been disrespected by an administration that has spent the last 7 months throwing good money after bad, bailing out Wall St. and car companies.

      As another NQ article pointed out, the cash for clunkers program was originally funded with $1 billion that the gov’t thought would last months, not 4 days. Biden already admitted they got the stimulus wrong (before they took him to the woodshed).

      This brings me to the most important point:

      7. Why would anyone, regardless of party, trust these people to reform 1/6 of the economy vis a vis health care? Why wouldn’t they be afraid and angry?

      • Balls
        • Ani

          Daily Kos — no partisanship there.

          • Balls

            It does not matter where the picture came from. It is what is in the picture that counts.

            • WMCB
              • eileen

                I think I know WMCB. It’s different because the people in your photo are smiling. Yeah, that’s it. Instruct all to smile when they wave their swastika signs. Then all will be right with the world, or at least with ‘balls.’

            • WMCB

              Still waiting for that answer, Balls.

            • WMCB

              Balls? Helloooo? Balls? You there?

              I guess when Dear Leader told you to go “argue with them and get in their faces”, he neglected to warn you that some of us have a fucking spine and know our shit, and will argue back with real facts.

              Obamabots are running into Americans all over this country who have shoveled enough horse shit in their lives to see that the sparkly unicorn you’re riding in on is in fact a half-lame mule with a blue glitter twizzle stick taped to his damn head.

              • Scout

                “Obamabots are running into Americans all over this country who have shoveled enough horse shit in their lives to see that the sparkly unicorn you’re riding in on is in fact a half-lame mule with a blue glitter twizzle stick taped to his damn head.”

                OK, that caused without question the best laugh I’ve had all day.”

              • QUEENIE

                “Obamabots are running into Americans all over this country who have shoveled enough horse shit in their lives to see that the sparkly unicorn you’re riding in on is in fact a half-lame mule with a blue glitter twizzle stick taped to his damn head.”

                Coffee all over keyboard…that was a brilliant line WMCB!!!!!!!! I could actually visualize that!!

              • tzada

                lmao! omg every time I look at them now I will have that in mind. I hope Pat R does it up in a cartoon. Ridicule and snark from us will prove their failing. Remember the emperor has no clothes?

                Thanks for the laugh.

              • Frikken’s Lunch Box

                Best description I have heard in a week. Thanks WMCB!

                Please do an artist rendering of the suspect!

        • Cahil

          It’s also pretty funny that after she wrote you this whole reasonable list you respond to none of it but divert with the Kos images.

          • Balls

            I just posted an extensive discussion of every single one of Ani’s points and it appears that it is now being censored. Very par for the course for NQ. If you cannot talk about the facts or cannot deal with an opposing view then just sensor them.

            • WMCB

              Learn to spell. It’s “censor”. And the spam filter is a little random, especially with long posts – don’t be paranoid.

              I do find it interesting, though, that you are whing “Sensorshiiiip!” [sic] on a privately-owned blog that may or may not have shut down your speech.

              But you think that voting citizens of this country at a public town hall addressing THEIR elected representatives should STFU and go away. Interesting and exceedingly self-centered world view you have, there.

              Also, you have yet to explain to me why the swastikas carried in anti-war protests are any different that that pic you keep saying is so disgusting.

            • Ani

              No one is censoring you. Just went to the spam filter (we check it regularly) and did not find your post there. Sometimes these things do go into the ether. I have had comments of mine that disappeared as well. That has happened to just about every poster here on occasion. Not intentional.

            • Ferd Berfle

              Why does botHQ insist on sending single-digit IQ obmatrons like you to this website? The content of your posts is nothing short of sophomoric, much like the drivel spewed by the one at whose feet you worship.

              Would you please, please go lower the collective IQ an order of magnitude at some OTHER website? We have more than our fair share of dead-end lemmings here and don’t need another.

        • oowawa

          These people are disgusting scumbags.

          Well, Balls, I looked real close at that picture, and I didn’t see any “disgusting scumbags.” What are the visual cues that should be telling me “disgusting scumbags,” because I just don’t get it.

        • WMCB

          Oh, so everyone of us who protested at an anti-war rally, with SWASTIKA images like these:


          We were disgusting scumbags, too? For objecting to what we saw as an over-powerful State? Any dissent that is not to your or my taste is “disgusting”? I went to lots of rallies organized by Move-on, and the fabulously wealthy Soros. Was I a “plant”?

          Your bullshit doesn’t pass the smell test. You just don’t like the fact that those who disagree with you are now using the same methods WE used, and they are growing in number. You thought the left had a proprietary patent on dissent, and are getting all pissy now that it’s clear we don’t. You are the definition of a hypocrite.

          • fif

            Well, look at who they revere? He’s the Paragon of Hypocrisy.

      • Onofre’s arm

        8. Where is the tort reform?
        9. Where are the restrictions for illegal aliens?
        10. If it was such a great deal, why the hard sell?
        11. If it is such an emergency and a crisis, why is its implimentation put off until 2013, AFTER the 2012 election? Could it possibly be that if it were started sooner and turned into the train wreck that it’s destined to be, that Obama and his fascist buddies wouldn’t have a chance at a second term?

      • proud mobster

        If this bill is so great why do you have to threaten and intimidate people to get them to support it? Lyndon Johnson took a year and a half to pass Medicare and it was passed with both Republican and Democrat votes. No Seniors were called Nazis or Domestic Terrorists and no Union Thugs were brought in to force Seniors to accept the bill. Imagine that!

      • Naturally

        Not “right wing talking points?”

        I just heard Newt Gingrich make all of those same seven points on ABC This Week with George Stephanopoulos.

        Last I checked, Gingrich was a Republican.

        • tzada

          Won’t work here at this site. We are PUMA hear us roar!

          • lorac

            I think they’re pushing the meme that’s it’s republicans against BO, because they don’t want to admit that many dems have always and are still dissatisfied with BO – same as the meme that there were only 5 or so PUMAs in the country.

          • PotVsKtl

            Please. This site has been Republican astroturfing since before the primaries ended.

            • Ferd Berfle

              BS, pothead. This site has always been centrist. Just because you and your brethren are to the left of Chairman Mao does not make us a right-wing group. Can you ask your masters over at botHQ to send us someone with at least half a brain? Your quarter-ouncer ain’t making it here.

            • Ani

              This is too hilarious. Do you have any idea how many Democrats and huge Hillary supporters are on this site? Well, we were Democrats until we saw how Pelosi et al gamed the primaries and treated a woman worthy of respect like Hillary so disgracefully. Now some of us consider ourselves Independent.

              But you probably knew that.

            • fif

              I love it when people come here and tell us who we are–as if they know.

        • Ani

          I’ve been a Dem all my life and those items are things that concern me. Last time I checked, I don’t have Newt’s phone number — nor do I listen to him. I don’t listen to Rush either or any conservative talk show hosts or anything of the kind.

          People have a right to be concerned and have their questions answered, which ever party they are. There are 5 different bills out there — our representatives don’t have any clarity on it either which is why they don’t want to stand on the firing line about it. This is not going fully into effect until 2013 — why the almighty rush to ram this through without a full debate?

          The more somebody tries to demonize me for daring to ask questions, the more suspicious I become as to their motives for doing so.

          • Naturally

            Then it must be just coincidence that your talking points are exactly the same as Newt Gingrich’s. No relationship there whatsoever. Just coincidence. Same points, same wording, just coincidence.

            • Ani

              I have not listened to Gingrich about this issue. He is an unholy hypocrite for reasons which should be obvious considering I am a Clintonista — my feelings on that one range back a number of years. That stated, on any number of issues (including or excluding health care), even a broken clock can be right twice a day. However feeble you may consider my concerns, I did not get them from him. By the way, even some of Obama’s biggest Dem supporters are now writing articles voicing similar concerns — are they channeling Newt, too? Rich, Paglia, E. Robinson, Koch, Reich…

              As to your earlier question about single payer, I’m for it as long as that really means Congress is on the exact same system and trusts it for themselves as much as for us. No exceptions. Then I’ll know we have a system that works. True single payer. Even that will have its problems, however.

    • Portia Elizabeth

      You can pontificate all you like (a benefit of this site btw), but when you do, be prepared to address the dissent. You do not know what you are talking about when you insult and try to marginalize the posters here. The people who come here regularly are educated, informed, analytical thinkers. And when it comes to healthcare, there are many here who deal with the issue on a professional basis.

      So scurry back to whoever gives you your talking points and tell them they won’t work here.

      • Onofre’s arm

        “The people who come here regularly are educated, informed, analytical thinkers.”

        I’m not. I’m just an arm. But compared to most bots, I have more brains in my little finger than…..oh hell, you know how it goes.

    • JRD

      KRUGMAN AND WALSH ARE RAAAAAACIST for defending white SEIU thugs beating up an Afro-American. Did anyone hear an apology…..crickets! The whole world is watching the progressive statist hypocrisy.

      Shame shame everybody knows your game.

    • fif

      A bunch of thugs who cannot debate the facts, but would rather stop others from discussion.

      You mean like Obama & Co. during the primaries? We all lived it, so don’t even try to pull that b.s. here. Funny, you didn’t have a problem with caucus fraud and ACORN tactics back then, did ya? Axelrod took astroturfing and propaganda to a level that made Rove envious. You are either blind or complicit.

  • dormantdem

    sorry about the link not working, here it is again!

  • dormantdem

    The AA man who was assaulted in Missouri was interviewed on Your World with Neil Cavuto today

    and as I was typing this… he will be on the O’Reilly Factor tonight. (still can’t believe I watch Fox News.)

    scary stuff, and here I thought the 2008 primaries were behind us!

  • CG

    Thanks Ani, NP should apologize.

    but I am shocked by the compensation of the insurance executives http://sickforprofit.com/ceos/ who according to Business Week have already won http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_33/b4143034820260.htm.

    on an island by myself, still behind Hillary’s health care ideas in the primaries, I see that even her’s would be as unpopular as Obama’s in this economic climate, even with her skills and even though she would have handled it so much more differently than Obama…

    and since all is depressing why not play Choose How American Will End http://sdn.slate.com/features/endofamerica/default.htm choose your own apocalypse for America… I chose five disasters which will doom America and the analysis is that I am a ‘humanitarian internationalist,’ ha, ha.

  • cathnealon

    BO has of course used the ‘Bush made the mess’ card again–as soon as he’s in trouble,it’s play the blame game. Now he wants ‘to clean up the mess.” Uh, by tripling the national debt in 6 months?? By sending in his thugs to beat up older people because they don’t want to be given their doses of morphine while the doctor tells them ‘sorry, you can’t have that pacemaker, you’re too damn old.’ Or, calling a whole city police force ‘stupid’? Or by telling the Dems to ‘punch back twice as hard?’ By apologizing to Europe whom we saved in WW II saying that we are “arrogant, divisive and derisive.”? By schmoozing and bowing to dictators and kings? Oh yeah he’s cleaning things up allright. See you in DC 9/12/

  • jbjd

    This question is posted on the web site of my Representative, Barney Frank, under Frequently Asked Questions.

    Why isn’t Congressman Frank holding town halls to discuss health care during August?

    Congressman Frank has scheduled many meetings with individual constituents and with local organizations throughout the month of August. Members of his staff also take phone calls from constituents and they faithfully convey people’s views to the Congressman.

    Congressman Frank wants to know specifically how the health care system affects individuals and small businesses, so he feels that one-on-one and small group meetings are most effective. If you would like to meet with Congressman Frank, you may submit a request online.

  • Naturally

    There’s no doubt about who is organizing and scripting the phony, “grassroots” recess rallies. It’s professional, corporate-funded, Republican-staffed public relations companies. They don’t don’t deny it. They are taking credit for it.

    Check out RecessRally.com. Coalition sponsors include:

    Michelle Malkin (Fox News Channel and O’Reilly Factor right-wing wacko)

    Redstate (right-wing Republican blog)

    American Majority (Bush/Cheney operatives and lobbyists)

    Sam Adams Alliance (Republican party hacks)

    Let Freedom Ring (wealthy evangelical Christian group that backs right-wing Republicans like George W. Bush, Sen. Rick Santorum and Sen. Zell Miller; they paid for TV commercials falsely tying Iraq to 9/11)

    Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (smeared war-hero John Kerry’s war record when he ran against Bush in 2004)

    Americans For Prosperity (run by Art Pope, multimillionaire, far-right Republican activist, and oil-billionaire David Koch, the 19th richest man in the world; they have formerly smeared climate-change science and paid Joe-the-Plumber to tour the country promoting Republican causes. President Tim Phillips formerly ran Century Strategies with Ralph Reed, a company that was involved in the Enron scandal and with convicted con-man Jack Abramoff.

    Patients United Now and Patients First (corporate-funded experts at fake-grassroots campaigns that promote corporate interests; they have been busing people from rally to rally)


    I think half the people on this thread are goons for the insurance oligarchs, and others are just being duped.

    The problem is, if you think of yourselves as working-class Democrats, you should be criticizing Obama from the LEFT — demanding single-payer, universal, not-for-profit health INSURANCE — rather than siding with the insurance oligarchs and their PR professionals who are derailing the discussion so that they can keep getting rich off the American people’s suffering.

    • jbjd

      Barney Frank insisted the reason he will not put single payer up for a vote is that it will not pass. He insists that BO’scare bill will pass and be an interim fix on the way to single payer. Who’s zooming whom?

      • Scout

        What BS! He is lying. That single payer bill, HR 676 has more cosponsors than are needed to pass it.

        If only the cosponsors voted for it, it’s a done deal.

        They are lying because they are beholden to the insurance companies.

        I have lost all respect for the dems who are trying to ram this through when HR 676 is allowed to languish.

        • Scout

          Oh, I have to amend what I just wrote. 86 votes is not enough for the house.

          However, the Obamacare bill, HR 3200, has 8 cosponsors only.

          Which bill do you think has more support?

    • Ani

      Tell you what, sport, I’d appreciate it if you wouldn’t tell me what I “should” be doing. Stop assuming you know what’s best for me when you don’t know my or my family’s situation. It is my experience that elitists think they know what’s best for everyone else (whether they do or not).

      It is also horrid that you see fit to call the people on this thread “goons”. It is precisely this type of behavior that alienated us from voting for Obama in the first place. How insulting.

      How many of his supporters did I speak to in the last year and a half who were either wrong on the issues, or didn’t even know what they were. He has made deals behind closed doors with insurance companies himself — they were the people in the White House he was negotiating with and the WH refused to release their names until they were threatened with a law suit by a left wing group.

      Let us stop pretending that this President gives a hoot in hell about our insurance benefits. After his bailout of wall st, and car companies I do not trust him. He’s going to have to prove it and so is Congress. Telling everyone to shut up and sit down is not the way to go.

      There are Democrats who are questioning these policies as well — whether you believe it or not. Furthermore, rank and file citizens, regardless of party have a right to have their questions answered. They deserve better than rude doubletalk.

      • Karma

        Obama’s insurance companies are like Cheney closed door energy meeting that had maps of Iraqi oil fields to chat over. Does anyone believe that Iraq has been serviced well by those close door meetings?

        But suddenly closed door meetings with insurance companies is supposed to work out well for the American people.

        Like you said, I have seen their track record with the bailouts and car companies and don’t trust them either.

      • Naturally

        Hey, sport, you wrote the article telling us all what to think. And, I didn’t appreciate that. Do you think you have the right to express your opinions, but I don’t?

        You chose to call the people you disagree with elitist, bullies and insulting. But, you claim offense by my use of goon? Please.

        Since you claim to be a Democrat of 30 years, why don’t you explain why you are spouting the talking points of some of the most despicable right-wing, Republican groups in U.S. politics?

        Why don’t you respond to the facts I detailed as to exactly who has been orchestrating these recess rallies, rather than changing the subject?

        Rude? What could be more rude than attending a public meeting and then disrupting and sabotaging it with threatening behavior and shouting? Polite people wait their turn and then make their points with courtesy. But, that’s not what these belligerent recess-rally bullies are doing. They’re acting like . . . . well, like insurance-industry goons and militant Republicans. In other words, just like the people who sent them.

        And don’t confuse me with an Obama supporter. I think he’s a Republican in Democrat’s clothing.

        I’m for single-payer, universal, not-for-profit health INSURANCE. If you oppose it, why don’t you say so directly?

        • Ani

          Well then you and I may be in agreement on something. Frankly I always thought he was a Republican in Democrat’s clothing too, which is why I didn’t support him. Now I don’t know what the heck to think about what he is doing.

          I do not consider that I have spouted any Republican talking points to say that Nancy Pelosi should not intimate that people who don’t like this health plan wear swastikas. What is Republican about that. I explained clearly why that offends me. Someone — one person — showed up at a rally with a line through such a symbol — in protest. I do not defend it, but that is not a plurality of people. That is one person.

          For anyone to pretend that there are not genuine protesters of all parties out there is inaccurate.

          I am telling you what I think. I am not telling you what to think in my post. I am reacting to Pelosi and to this administration’s actions. You are obviously free to respond however you wish, and you have. I have no power to tell anyone what to think.

          Most of the people on this blog were and are ardent Hillary supporters. Not right wing extremists. I don’t trust Obama’s plans. I don’t trust the people slamming us on the head to get this rush job through. Furthermore, the far left is rude as all hell when protesting so please don’t pretend that this is the first time anyone has held a protest and been obnoxious about it. That is not true.

          • Ani

            correction — that was one of the reasons I didn’t support him – his dissembling nature — there were and are many others.

          • Naturally

            Are you for single-payer or not?

            Since you didn’t answer the question, I’m guessing you are not for it. That would certainly explain all of your “concerns,” misinterpretations and Republican talking points . . . which you say are not Republican talking points.

            Will you give a direct, unambiguous answer to the question?

        • Portia Elizabeth

          Yesterday our senator, Jean Shaheen (D-NH),held a teleconference town hall meeting to discuss healthcare. There were reportedly >15,000 people on the call, including me. It lasted more than an hour. The most frequently asked questions concerned Medicare and single-payer coverage. Sen. Shaheen said that since no bill had yet been through the Senate, the possibility still existed for single-payer. Now I’m wondering if she was simply placating her constituents or if there’s more to it than has been reported.

          BTW a teleconference was a clever way to circumvent an “angry mob”; however, it was obvious the majority of those asking questions were not happy with Obamacare.

        • JRD

          You are for socialism. Single payer means socialism. Move. America is capitalist. There are plenty of other socialist countries.

          I have plenty of friends in England. The reports of filthy hospitals are a fact known by everyone. The wait is pathetic to be treated. There are 2 successful drugs for breast cancer which they will not allow because they are too expensive.
          Last year my husband got cancer. We went to John`s Hopkins ASAP. The number of people there from England was OVERWHELMING. The next highest were from Canada.
          Read this. A doctor from Canada wrote it.


          This bill is not about health care. It is about power and control. A true health care bill would start out with torte reform. Because of lawyers, insurance companies make money on both ends. Doctors have to come up with 200 grand insurance just to open shop because of slimy ambulance chasers. Go picket the ACLU dirtbag.
          Most of the uninsured are illegals or young people who are throwing the dice because they don`t want to pay for health care.
          Being a citizen of the US does not entitle to the right of health care.
          Go find another nanny state to live in. We Americans love freedom not government control.

          The middle class are tired of being enablers. You need a 12 step program to get off the government`s tit. See ya!

        • Ferd Berfle

          I’m for single-payer, universal, not-for-profit health INSURANCE.

          That isn’t what is being offered, illiterate one. Why don’t you shut up and read the pice of shit bill?

    • Karma

      Psst…Obama literally toss single payer from the room.

      You think the people here don’t know it?


      I am not on any of those email lists and the health care bill is a bunch of junk in my opinion. It doesn’t cut costs by the CBO’s own estimates which is the problem that needs to be solved before this bloated bill goes into Congress. This isn’t a fix.

      Can you finally wrap your brain around that?

    • WMCB

      Good Lord. Almost every damn anti-war rally I ever attended was promoted and organized by groups like MoveOn, DailyKos, etc. Do you KNOW how many “outside organizing” email lists I was on over the Bush years? TONS.

      Does that mean I was a “fake”, and my anger wasn’t real? Were my objections to his policies “manufactured”? Was everyone who attended Bush protests just a “dupe” of the evil billionaire George Soros? No. Whether you agree with these people or not, calling them fakes and goons is just ridiculously stupid. They aren’t. Any more than WE were at all of our protests.

      This bullshit of “community and internet organizing when we do it is pure and holy and grassroots, but when they do it it’s fake and nefarious” is a huge crock, and I’m sick of it. Everyone who disagrees with you or me is not evil, or crazy, or stupid, or duped.

      • Naturally

        That’s not what I said, and it’s not what Rachel Maddow said.

        See: http://www.commondreams.org/video/2009/08/06

        You’ve set up a straw-man, so you can knock it down.

        Click the link below to see an example of a fake mob, made up of Republican operatives who were flown in from around the country to pose as angry Florida voters. The strategy was successful, as we know, and many of the people in the photograph were rewarded with plum jobs in the Bush administration. Some of these same people now work for Koch Industries, the $100 billion/year privately-owned oil company that lavishly funds right-wing causes. This includes Americans For Prosperity, Patients United Now and Patients First . . . the very groups who are orchestrating and scripting the recess-rally, astroturf demonstrations right now.


        Eventually, we will see similar photographs of the recess-rallies with identifications of the participants as Republican operatives and insurance-industry employees and contractors . . . that is, “goons.”

        You say you’ve attended anti-war rallies organized by anti-war groups, and there’s no difference between those grassroots organizations/events and the the astroturf organizations/events funded by corporations and others with vested (financial) interests in the national polices being shaped.

        But, there are differences. Were you being paid a salary by one of the sponsoring groups while you were protesting? Were you rewarded with a job or contract afterwards? Was anyone in your immediate family so paid, or rewarded? Did you have any vested interest in ending war? In other words, did your personal greed motivate you to attend, and did you conceal that motivation and pretend otherwise while you were protesting? Did the organizing groups tell you what to say. Did they give you talking points? Did they tell you to disrupt and shut down public meetings? Did they allude to killing political leaders with whom they disagreed by comparing them to historical tyrants and dictators? Did they lie to you, and exploit your ignorance on the subject?

        These are some of the differences between astroturf, corporate-PR events, and real, grassroots protests.

        There are basically two kinds of astroturf people. Those who are complicit (the goons), and those who are misinformed (the dupes).

        Certainly both types have been attending the astroturf recess-rallies. We repeatedly hear duped, elderly people on Medicare telling their congress people to “keep the government’s hands off of Medicare.” We repeatedly hear them repeating the fear-mongering lies they’ve been told by the astroturf organizers that government now wants to euthanize the elderly, that for-profit health insurance can’t be reformed or eliminated without rationing of health care, and that it’s the same thing the Nazis did in Germany. Despicable lies and scare tactics.

        I’ll say it again. I’m for single-payer, universal, not-for-profit health INSURANCE. Public health insurance. Just like public roads and highways, public libraries, public schools, public water (tap water), public sanitation (sewage treatment), and other public programs like Social Security, Medicare and the VA. I’m NOT for a public-option duct taped to the current for-profit health insurance system, which is fatally-flawed and guaranteed to fail.

        Speaker Pelosi (who is far from my favorite politician) has pledged to let single-payer come to the House floor to be debated and voted on, later this year. Right now, we should all be contacting our congress people, and attending their recess events, and demanding single-payer. Instead, we are allowing the insurance-industry goons/dupes and Republican operatives to disrupt these very events with their astroturf PR, and prevent public discussion of single-payer.

        That’s what’s happening. I want single-payer. Do you?

        • Frikken’s Lunch Box

          To answer your question in one word, No. Any system managed by the government or on behalf of the government will end up being a bureaucratic tangle of red-tape and poor service similar to what you currently find in the VA system. It will not reward efficiency, innovation, good customer service or any other good quality the current free-market system provides, because it is what it is and will provide the bare-bones minimum in care and service for a cost that will have no natural free-market caps or restrictions.

          Are you currently covered by a commercial health insurance plan, Medicare, Medicare, on Tricare or use the VA?

          • Naturally

            I guess you don’t think much of our freeways, public streets, public airports, public libraries, public schools and land grant universities, public drinking water and public sanitation systems. Not to mention the space program, military, and police and fire departments.

            All are “systems managed by the government,” so therefor they must be a “tangle of red tape.” Funny, I don’t notice the red tape on the freeway.

            You’ve summarized Republican, de-regulation, starve-government-till-it’s small-enough-to drown-in-a-bathtub doctrine very well. It’s the voodoo economics that Reagan/Bush/Bush sold us. It created the Enrons, the Bernie Madoffs, the Countrywide Financials, the E. coli tainted food, and the massive national debt we now face.

            “Government bad, private enterprise good.” Easy to dupe low-information people with, but a proven loser. It doesn’t work, and it isn’t true.

            • Donna Brazile


              Don’t worry there’s still time for you to become a “high-information” person.

              Stop the regurgitating That One talking pointsn fest:-0

            • Frikken’s Lunch Box

              In response – I prepared a rebuttal to your points above, point by point, however, I think I can summarize…we are not talking about Roads, Schools, or Airports etc, where bureaucracy can create serious long term irreversible damage. We are talking about personal healthcare where red tape, advisory boards and government intervention dictates whose life is more valuable and therefore worth prolonging. Again, what type of health insurance do you currently have?

              • Naturally

                Whoa! Yet another right-wing Republican talking point! Now you claim that taking the profits out of health insurance means the “government” will be euthanizing seniors.
                That’s a lie, plain and simple.

                Interesting too, that you claim public roads, schools and airports “create serious long term irreversible damage.”

                Thanks for revealing that you are a Republican! Hope you will now stop using all the public resources that you so despise.

                • Frikken’s Lunch Box

                  Naturally, what I said was that we were not talking about situations (i.e. Public Roads, Airports,) where government intervention could cause long-term irreversible negative effects.

                  Quit the crap with the “Republican Talking Points”. We you are talking about the parts of the bill that call for “Advisory Boards” to that will be reviewing health care status and options with people over 65. It is NOT a lie, it is in the frikken bill. READ IT! You may not care if some board of government employees is deciding if you should take the blue pill or the red pill or if you could manage on painkillers instead of the hip-replacement, but I do! By the way, what kind of health insurance do YOU HAVE?

                  • Katmoon

                    Yes it is in the bill, Frikken is correct


                    Sec. 1233, Pg. 425, Lines 4-12 – Government mandates Advance (Death) Care Planning consultation. Think Senior Citizens and end of life

                    Sec. 1233, Pg. 425, Lines 17-19 – Government WILL instruct and consult regarding living wills and durable powers of attorney. Mandatory end-of-life planning!
                    • Sec. 1233, Pg. 425-426, Lines 22-25, 1-3 – Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
                    • Sec. 1233, Pg. 427, Lines 15-24 – Government mandates program for orders for life-sustaining treatment (i.e. end of life).

                  • Naturally

                    It’s a lie, AND a Republican talking point. Not to mention absurd.

                    • Katmoon

                      Considering I posted it, just to inform you, I am an Ex-democrat, and I am not generating anyone’s talking points. This stuff is in the bill, do you know where to find it, what it is called? Have you read any of it.

                      Further, end of life issues are a sticky matter for a doctor, expecially if there is mandated discussion, it cannot be done along of the lines of legal advising, it can only be a sharing of medical options; who is dictating the options? Are they options if they are a government mandate? Stop, for just a moment, and think about this.

                      It is no lie, it is fact, and there are many, many, non-republican resources(such as the bill itself), if you would only read.

                    • Ferd Berfle

                      You obviously were one of those left behind and apparently reading is not one of your strong suits. You might try posting over at HuffnPuffPo where illiteracy is not frowned upon.

                • Ferd Berfle

                  You actually haven’t read the bill have you, bot? Didn’t think so. Your opinion is as useless as those of the literally hundreds of bots who have come before you.

                  Read before you post, troll.

        • fif

          Did you miss the thousands of documented cases of people being bussed into Obama rallies and caucus sites, stealing packets, bullying Clinton voters and manipulating delegate counts? Now, it’s not so pleasant huh? Oh, the outrage! Disgusting, shocking, horrible!

          Yea, that’s what we said last year too.

  • Dawn

    My understanding is that it was 1 guy with a red line through a nazi sign as in stop nazi’s, that she was talking about.
    Shame on her.

  • I can barely wait for the next election. I despise what the Democrats have become more than I ever thought possible.

    I will be going to my Reps meeting next week. The people here are verrrrrrry mellow and polite so I doubt there’ll be any shouting. There are, however, many who support illegal immigration (Ag owners, the Pebble Beach rich) who would stand to profit from this boondoggle so…nah…they don’t protest. They buy politicians. Efficient.

  • EWard

    FYI – I called Pelosi’s SF office to protest her Nazi comments. In addition, I said if the health care plan is so great why are Obama, Congress, and others exempt from it and have their own program? The young man answering didn’t have an answer. Pelosi is nuts……………..

  • required reading

    Maybe this will help: I’ve heard something today about a Washington “rally for liberty on September 12th — here’s the link:


  • Rick

    the woman is evil. She will fall on her own sword or become shish Kabob along with Obama, Reid, Frank, Boxer and all the other arrogant snobs