Current Article

Where Is the Compassion?

By pm317 on August 12, 2009 at 10:10 PM in Current Affairs

(bumped up from early Wednesday morning)

Caring for disabled children must be stressful for parents. While they worry about their own mortality as they age, they have the additional burden of worrying about the future of their children who completely depend on them. One such parent is Mike Sola, who lost his cool in a town hall meeting with his congressman, John Dingell. Do we blame him for being disruptive or recognize that he is just frustrated with these two-timing politicians? A must-see video below.

Pelosi and Hoyer have written an op-ed in the USA Today branding people like Mike Sola as disruptive, un-American and so on. What I see in Sola is an angry parent, helpless and worried. Where the hell is the compassion for his plight? If Obama has answers to Mike Sola’s situation, why are we not hearing it? As indicated in the video, Congressman Dingell lied about an amendment to that effect. But I agree with Mr. Sola that if the bill is written right in the first place, where is the need for an amendment?

My heart goes out to parents like Mike Sola.

Ginger

Word is that there is a guy from the OSI group who is recruiting for this crap “plan”. Opposition better get up off it!

Animal Control

Could you translate this to plain English
Ginger

George Soros, OSI Group is paying for promotion of obamacare all over the country…Here is an ad from Craigslist.

Below is a Craigslist ad:

Campaign for Healthcare REFORM! Long-term jobs! $400-$600/wk (______)

——————————————————————————–
Date: 2009-08-06,
Reply to: job-__-__________@craigslist.org
——————————————————————————–

Now is our chance to make health care work.
America’s health care system is broken. Health care costs are spiraling out of control, throwing families, businesses and government into financial crisis. Families are worried their health coverage won’t be there when they need it. Our country can’t afford to wait for health reform that keeps costs down and protects consumers.
We can’t wait for affordable, dependable health care.
We’re fighting for health care that will protect families’ financial health, lay out a clear path for all Americans to afford health care, and improve patient safety and quality care.
You can work for change this summer.
Join motivated staff around the country working to make change happen. You can make great friends and money along the way. Earn $400-$600 a week.
To apply for a job, visit our website—www.______.org—or call Chris at ___________.

Location:________
This is at a non-profit organization.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don’t contact this job poster.
Phone calls about this job are ok.
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.

PostingID: ___________

Animal Control

Thanks
http://firefox Martha Washington Collier

Makes you wonder what George is investing his money in????

Maybe we should all sign up and get a job “informing” people about Obamacare. Of course, we might wind up in the Bay with concrete boots when they found out what we were saying…

We should be keeping an eye on the investments of Paul Pelosi and Richard Blum (Feinstein’s husband)…Boxer too for that matter.
Ellen D

Interesting. I would have read this ad as a scam.

imustprotest

I am also the parent of a disabled child and I can tell you I worry more about what kind of care my daughter will get after I’m gone, when I’m not there to fight for her. I completely understand this man’s fear and frustration and I cried when I saw it.

sandi78

I also have a disabled adult daughter. I had the same reaction you did to this video.

I am 100% in favor of a single-payer system, but that was not even considered.

kgirl1028

Why are ou shocked. My father and my life has taught me that A. No One will not look out for your best interest except you, and B. Nothing is free and if it is you probably don’t want Don’t get me wrong I for years was under the impression that Democrats were compassionate, but let’s be realistic,Chronic conditions such as CP require tons of cash. That’s one of the reason i’m so scared for AA. We have slew of chronic illnesses HTN,Renal failure, diabetes, all of which cost alot of money to treat, so when Obama starts talkin about saving money you should KNOW that is where they are going to cut prices at. Further more common sense would tell a person that if the federal government gives you money they are going to try and control wat you do with it especially after the way they treated Cryster, GM, and their stock holders . Truthfully I have no problems paying for Medicate and Medicare. The disabled the elderly and children need to be treated, and i don’t mind paying for it. I think people need to rethink their love of entitlement program. I”m nota republican nor would i call my self conservative, and i understand the need for Health Care reform is great, but Government health care is nothing more than institualized slavery because not only will they reduce the amount of money we will take home as a result of this bill, but they will also have control over our bodies and what we choose to do with it and with those of the people we love they also will have access to our bank acounts. WTF

If Obama doesn’t give a rat behind about an infant strugglingto breath after it’s been aborted I don’t expect him to care about my needs.

sandi78

I didn’t say I was “shocked”. I am disgusted though.

I am shocked at the continuing ignorance of government-funded health care, how it works, etc.

Ellen D

I agree with you sandi78.

I keep telling people that I have lived under government health care and my family continues to live under it and it is just fine.

I also see this as a lack of compassion. The man voted for “Greatest Canadian” was the politician who was responsible for bringing in government healthcare who was also a Baptist minister.

I’ll probably be attacked and called names again but I have to speak out on this. Single payer is the U.S.’s only hope.

Docelder

If Obama doesn’t give a rat behind about an infant strugglingto breath after it’s been aborted I don’t expect him to care about my needs

A good way to look at this. If he has little regard for life, then he has even less regard for quality of life.
Kathy

One of the most shocking things I’ve read was a link posted in an NQ article yesterday that was one man’s analysis of HCR. Part of the bill specifically states that a Secretary would determine how many readmissions to a hospital (any hospital–not just the one you are ususally treated at)you are entitled to for a chronic condition. After that you would not be allowed treatment for that condition. The bill also states there would be NO process for review or appeal–what the secretary says is final. I am not on my own computer or I would post the link. Perhaps someone else has it?

If that’s not rationed care, what is???

Pennsylvania Caucasian (but not exactly White-Y)

And I care for a disabled brother. Same concerns here.

Camille Paglia weighs in on this issue:

As with the massive boondoggle of the stimulus package, which Obama foolishly let Congress turn into a pork rut, too much has been attempted all at once; focused, targeted initiatives would, instead, have won wide public support. How is it possible that Democrats, through their own clumsiness and arrogance, have sabotaged healthcare reform yet again? Blaming obstructionist Republicans is nonsensical because Democrats control all three branches of government. It isn’t conservative rumors or lies that are stopping healthcare legislation; it’s the justifiable alarm of an electorate that has been cut out of the loop and is watching its representatives construct a tangled labyrinth for others but not for themselves. No, the airheads of Congress will keep their own plush healthcare plan — it’s the rest of us guinea pigs who will be thrown to the wolves

.

Puma Pastor

The current health care debate finds many of us sorting out the tensions between our freedom and security. It’s easy to understand how we are tempted either to: a) seek security at the expense of our freedom, or b) seek freedom at the expense of our security.

If we have learned anything since the Regan Administration, though, it is how either extreme just leaves us with false choices and empty promises. Remember how Ronald Regan ran on a platform of welfare reform? It’s funny how neither party has yet to make good on their word to finish the task by implementing true health care reform. I imagine most of us do not know how the current democratic health plan proposals echo efforts previously made by Richard Nixon- a conservative.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/22163.html

What’s not so funny is how we, as the middle class, have placed too much faith in premises that reflect neither our religious nor political heritage. The current health care fiasco is neither liberal nor conservative: it has merely provided the motives and means for corporate robber barons to steal from rather than deal with any nation under God. The current health care system is neither compassionate nor just: it has only managed to exchange one form of corporate tyranny with another.

Clearly a balance must be sought between our rights and responsibilities. The right would have us believe we should hold corporations free and individuals accountable; the left would have us believe we should hold individuals free and corporations accountable. Unfortunately both extremes have presented us with half-truths, false choices, and wrong directions. Either extreme views freedom and security as antagonistic rather than reciprocal processes. They lead us to believe somehow that we can live in a place where there is liberty without equity and choices without accountability.

The question remains about whether we will continue to allow either side to depict freedom and security as “either/or” choices. Or will we finally stand up to those who claim we can have a) freedom without security or b) security without freedom? Ultimately it begs a deeper question of identity: are we just embodied souls that need to escape the curses of a world that is evil; or are we ensouled bodies that get to participate in the blessings of a world worth saving?

I, for one, am tired of being treated as an object of force rather than as an agent of my own destiny. I don’t want to be pushed into blindly obeying conventions of the past; nor do I want to be pulled willy-nilly into any movement without some assurances as to our future.

Aren’t you tired, as well, of being lead by those who would like nothing more than keep us in “La- La land? People who are for real know there can be no a) freedom without security nor b) security without freedom. People who are for real know the time to overhaul our health care system is long overdue.

People who are for real surely will find a way for all to have a legitimate say about how real freedom and security will walk hand in hand. The time has come for us to be free enough to be secure and secure enough to be free when it comes to calling for real solutions to our health care crisis.

tzada

Yes, and this one would have us pay for illegal invaders and people who choose to be poor and down troden. We already have social problems for them.

We will NOT let them make us bow down while they crush us into dust with their jack boots.

America has said give us your poor and your homeless. We have taken and given and helped. We have also been spit upon, slaughtered and despised and now invaded.

My heart is in danger of being hardened, my resolve is made. Do NOT interpert kindness for softness, to do so with an American Patriot is to do so at your peril.

tzada

ummmmmmm social solutions,not problems. Guess my fingers said what my mind was really thinking.
tzada

My rant was directed at “them” over this Health Care from Hell push, not at American citizens in need.

http://shhhithitsthefan.wordpress.com/ It hits the fan

I completely agree with everything you say. The truth is that neither political party in power has our best interests in mind. They are both bought and paid for by corporate puppet masters that hedge their bets keeping everyone on their payroll and thus under their control. It’s all a very deadly game that we, unfortunately, always come out the loser in.

I wrote about my complete frustration with the current political debauchery that both sides perpetuate. Perhaps my words are not quite as eloquent as your own, but my passion for a real and necessary change is sincere and growing stronger daily.

The Trouble with Ideologues

Peggy Sue

Thanks for the link PaCaucasian. And kudos to Paglia for having the guts to tell it like it is. And she is another dedicated Dem, a liberal, an Obama supporter, who joins the chorus: the Dems and Obama are squandering the moment, behaving like rank amatuers or worse, haughty royalists. And Pelosi? She suggests Pelosi step down for the damage she’s done.

So, we have Estrich, Reich, Rich, Koch and now Paglia expressing the sentiments of The Mob.

Has the WH ever heard the expression: Do no harm? Apparently not.

This may be the week were the tide begins to turn.
trixta

Gee, I actually agree with Paglia on her assessment of HC (– and on the Dem’s treatment of Palin)! I’ve always considered Paglia an academic hack otherwise.
William L. Donlon

I must confess:
I have a new love in my life, Camille Paglia.
What a writer!
Larry if you are reading this blog,
Run Camille’s entire essay that is in “Salon”

The intellectual honesty took my breath away.
Camille has the ability to nail it with out the slightest flinch.

I love a lot of the Female writers on “No Quarter” but Camille’s essay pulls it all together.

lorac

William, our very own intellectual casanova!

pm317

I don’t have any children. But I cried as I listened to his interview and as I wrote this post. I completely understand his anguish and his helplessness. And to think obots are threatening him, what kind of people are they?

Docelder

what kind of people are they

Union people.

creeper

That was uncivilized and uncalled-for. Unions have both Democrats and Republicans. Remember all the union workers who supported Reagan?

Don’t tar all unions with the actions of SEIU.

creeper

Love Mr. Sola’s repeated question: “If this plan is so good, why won’t Congress sign on to it for themselves?

Come to think of it, how can Congress maintain a separate plan if there is a federal plan in place?

Single-payer just got a bit more attractive.

lorac

Can there be single payer without all this complicated, governmental intervention? What about medicare – it’s from the government, but people choose their own doctors in the community, don’t they? Perhaps the government’s only role in medicare is to pay the money….? If this is true, it makes me more comfortable with medicare for all, and people having the freedom to purchase a supplemental plan from the free market if they want to.

But what they’re proposing now, the government seems very, very involved in the health care decisions at all levels. And that I don’t like….

Plus the current bill I saw has lots of loopholes, showing BO’s words to be lies – for example, he says you can keep your current insurance – but the loophole is that if ANYthing changes (ie, you start a new medicine, or change jobs), then you have to go to the public option (the “exchange”). So, basically, eventually everyone will lose their current insurance, and his words are a lie.

I’m starting to wonder if “Hussein” translates to “liar! liar!” lol

Ellen D

I’m in medicare – I choose my own doctors.

I chose my own in Canada too because all of them were in the program.

jwrjr

It looks as though when a CongressCriminal says “Unamerican” it really means “I don’t want to hear what he (or she) has to say”.

jbjd

Then, Congress is un-American.
IF DROWNING OUT OPPOSING FACTS IS un-AMERICAN THEN IGNORING UNPLEASANT FACTS MUST BE un-AMERICAN TOO”

candymarl

My heart goes out to this man. His concern is legitimate and I’m furious at the thought that anyone would come to his home and threaten him and his family.
yazi

Actually, the guy contradicts this himself. She asks him if he was trying to “drown out opposing voices” and he says, “No.” But the Pelosi/Hoyer say: “Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American.” So, they weren’t talking about him. They never called this guy un-American.

yazi

I should add, also, that it’s not very savvy or constructive to call anyone un-American. I disagree with that tack. But I don’t see any reason to blow it out of proportion either.

Animal Control

Really?

http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

Seriously? Well, I don’t see any reason for you to post here, Yazi. But, here you are again.

That fact that Nancy thought she has enough political clout anymore to even begin to label others “un-american” shows how out of touch she is at this point.

The point is the dems are trying to sell this can full of garbage while insulting the customers. It won’t work.

yazi

i’m posting here for the same reason Mr. Sola is voicing his concerns. it’s all part of the democratic discussion. i’m trying to be civil and engage is substantive discussion. i don’t know why that’s so threatening.

Rah-Rah

yazi, you bore the crap out of me. after two days of your ridiculousness, i just finally had to say it…

Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

Poor Yazi, the ObamaCare astroturfers ran out of Cheetos and had to resort to paying their people with Harvest Chips…yeah, they’re whole grain, but don’t have that cheesey corn goodness like the Cheetos.
HC123

noquarter isnt a democracy. You will learn this at some point.

Katmoon

Oh dear, you aren’t threatening, tedious as an obvious political virgin, but threatening, no. As far as doing the same as Mr. Sola, this is a blog, it is not the same as freedom of speech in public. We are here by the good graces of Mr. Johnson. There is no obligation to allow anyone to be allowed to post. It is a gift, not a right. Disagreement is fantastic, but coming in and shitting on your hosts “kitchen table” is discouraged. Play fair, that’s all; otherwise, there is no quarter given.

pm317

Well said.
yazi

but what have i done counter to that?

Animal Control

I think it may be your existence

TeakWoodKite

Katmoon, guess who is coming to dinner?

well said.

My compliments to the host and his mighty spleen, lest I forget my manners.

TeakWoodKite

“it’s all part of the democratic discussion”

???
Ferd Berfle

You have no right to do anything here, troll. Your sense of entitlement knows no bounds does it? You are an inconsiderate, unethical, goose-stepping troll of an obamabot. I hope they drum your sorry ass off this board. Furthermore, you aren’t civil but annoying and insufferable. You wouldn’t know a substantive discussion is it was pasted to one of your Kool-Aide dispensers.
don tufts

you come here spewing your crap yet you refuse to answer specific questions just like barky.
http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

@Yazi: You keep bringing up the word “threatening”. Is that how you feel? Because no one is threatening you, only expressing that they don’t appreciate or need to read your view..

Someone who wasn’t feeling threatened might come to a different conclusion about sticking around.

Meanwhile, you ARE boring. Deal with it.
lorac

Yazi, I think what might be most helpful is if you would read the entire bill – many of us have. And then we can discuss particular lines in the bill, and we can explain why we don’t like it, and you can explain the other side. Because if you just come and talk in generalities, then it’s no different than the politicians at these town halls, talking about something they haven’t read.

It sounds like you would like to contribute the “other side”, so I really think if would be most helpful for you to read the bills, and then we can all talk more specifically. What do you think?

MOLLY MOBSTER

The biggest problem, IMO, is that the Dems are just insulting their OWN. There are a ton of Dems at those protests. My friends and family for starters. And all I see is a bunch of concerned Americans who, in that hour of sharing their frustrations, leave party behind. Like we all said during the election…”Country First, Party Second.” It’s more true now than ever.

Nancy Pelosi is an embarrassment to America, no matter what party you belong to. Congress admits that they don’t read the bills, and now they are abusing their own voters and constituents. You couldn’t make this kind of ignorance and stupidity up.

Obama should just read the bill, admit it’s a boondoggle, consult with the GOP and Blue Dogs, and present something less venal and vile. But he can’t get out of his own way, because from day one it’s all been about him and about winning at any cost. Even the cost of America and Democracy.

I’ve read that bill. If it passes, 2010 is bad news time for the left.

Ulysses S. Moss

The real problem

It’s one thing to be able to game the system with the help of thugs and Alinsky playbook

It’s another to able to govern and bring people together and have the core convictions to rally people that Obama clearly lacks.

Never in this country have I witnessed a President and a party so clearly at WAR with the American people.
We can call this BAD Leadership!!!

The DemoRats are going to routed in a Tsunami wave of Red, White and Blue and will be seeing stars as they head for the dustbin of history.

MOLLY MOBSTER

You are right US Moss. And any one with a brain knows what you teach your 3 year old child…Don’t poke a hornet’s nest with a stick, and you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. All these Moonbats are doing is pissing us off more. Did they really think that everyone was just going to pick up their ball and go home because Nancy Pelosi slimed them with her ignorant, elitist rhetoric?

Funny to see all the people who knew this would happen, way back to the primary. We all talked about the Chicago toilet moving into the White House, and this week we saw how Obama deals with people who don’t praise him. He sends people out to silence them, and in the mess people got injured. A black man, no less, who was called the “N” word by one of Obama’s own goons and thugs.

Any other President but Obama would be facing impeachment for instigating violence against US Citizens. And, hey, how about that White House snitch site? But the left had their hair on fire over Nixon and Bush and the wiretapping issues. Democracy, Hypocrisy be thy name.

Ulysses S. Moss

Molly the Patriot
They have dug their own grave and with the trillions spent are now building their coffins.

We will do the honors of nailing them in and performing the last rights.

I never knew it was going to be this easy!

After we win the backlash revolution the Marxist’s beggars will rise up with riots and record amounts of crime and mayhem.
The next President will have to take care of that inconvenience..

MOLLY MOBSTER

I think their corrupt little coven committed political suicide last week.

By the way, they have trolls here? Are they still the ones on the Obama payroll?

US MOSS

We are left with the soup kitchen types now..Low rents!!
Some trolls have Blogger snatched some dormant names from the past like justme the other day.
Watch out for Nony Mouse..I think it’s SF Hillary.

These rats are tame now…How can they not be with everything blowing up in their collective faces now.

lorac

What was the name of the guy who cleaned up Chicago – was it Elliot Ness? We need to start putting the call out for the New Elliot Ness…. let the Chicago White House gangsters know we’re coming for them!

…. and announce the upcoming new prohibition era (this time prohibiting Kool Aid)

Peggy Sue

Would you be this understanding or calling for “calm,” if the Republicans [GW&Co specifically] were throwing the term “unAmerican” around? I mean it’s only a variation on the term “unpatriotic,” which was certainly expressed by the Republican Administration, and then directed towards those of us against the Iraq War.

Or has the chant become: what’s good for the goose is good for the gander?

The Dems are destroying themselves from the inside out. If you can’t see that you’re blind.

yazi

i have no problem with protesting. but when someone tries to drown out a public exercise in democratic discussion (NOT MR SOLA), they may have a legal right to do that, but it’s not very defensible.

Boxer Mum 06

Hey Yazi,

Have you ever heard of Code Pink? Maybe you should seek out one of their blogs and preach to them about drowning out a public exercise in democratic discussion.

Boxer Mum 06

Here’s a link to some of the finer moments.

I ask you all… if one of the ‘mob’ got as close to Obama or a member of Congress at the townhall meetings, would it have ended the same way as the Code Pink woman with Condi Rice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lzUXAYkXH4&feature=related

I for one am sick and tired of the labels. If you were against the Iraq war, you were a Democrat .. if you are against this bogus Health Care bill you are a Republican.. Is everythhing so black and white? What about the other folks like me that are somewhere stuck in the middle?

Animal Control

It’s one thing for a private person to use the “un-american” and other pejoratives, however it is totally out of line for a member of the government to use such invectives–there is a difference. One uses it out of sincere belief, the other for intimidation and brainwashing.
jbjd

PS, read this; it’s my latest offering.
IF DROWNING OUT OPPOSING FACTS IS un-AMERICAN THEN IGNORING UNPLEASANT FACTS MUST BE un-AMERICAN TOO
(Use their words against them.)

Ani

Out of proportion?

What Pelosi and Hoyer did is right out of the Rovian playbook…

Labeling protestors “unpatriotic” and even “traitors” for not supporting the war in Iraq. I’d say that was out of proportion, too.

Can’t have it both ways. It isn’t any better when the Dems do it. People have the right to assemble and protest

Even big Obama supporters like Paglia, Koch, Rich, E. Robinson, Reich are complaining about this healthcare bill. Guess that makes them un-American too.
tzada

This is what the American Thinker calls a “concerned troll”

imustprotest

Yes, faux concern and no real compassion. I think Pat R, Cartoonist and writer for NQ did a post a while back describing all of the trolls, this site was crawling with them then.

candymarl

Okay let’s overlook the Un-American part.

I’d say it’s really over-reacting to come to someones house at night and threaten them and their family. But that doesn’t bother you does it?

yazi

that definitely bothers me. i haven’t seen any news reports of that, but if it’s true, it bothers me a whole lot.

Docelder

I seem to recall instructions from Obama to “get in peoples faces”… and not that long ago. It bothers me quite a bit that we seem to have issues developing with the whole concept of free speech. Political speech is supposed to be unrestricted whatsoever in this country. If we lose that, no matter who the President is then we are in danger of losing all rights.

trixta

Yes, Obama is encouraging his minions and brown shirts to harass and intimidate the opposition, just as he did during the primaries and the GE.

lorac

Yazi, I’ve seen you a couple of times say that you haven’t seen something others have. Not a snark, but maybe the news outlets you are choosing to check out aren’t giving the whole story? For my part, since the crimes of the dem party last year, I now get my news from both sides. I have found it’s a good way to hear the whole story, and not just what certain outlets want to paint a story as.
TeakWoodKite

It was was reported to the state police and law enforcement to it seriously.

Just because YOU didn’t see it in “print” it is not TRUE? There were no
\ IF’s about it. OR did you not believe the man ? It should bother you but does bother you enough to stop sucking * on BO’s *|* long enough to pay attention?

* Some folks have an ability to know a lair when they hear one.
** Tiny isn’t it?

kgirl1028

They didn’t have too. They just sent one of their goos to his house to threaten him. Now that IS unabmerican. I also think it was very Amercan to Promise to place a bullet in the arse of the inviduals that came to house agian.

lorac

I saw an interview on TV with a conservative woman who spoke at one of the town halls, and later that day someone called her cell phone and was threatening her about her question about health care. She had no idea how they got her number.

But it’s making me think even back to the primaries, when Obama people (high placed people) were threatening senators and governors that if they didn’t support BO, they would run well-financed candidates against them in the next election. They even strong-armed the black leaders who were supporting Hillary (and they caved – except that nice woman who died, her name is escaping me right now).

Chicago politics, from the top down…..

kgirl1028

They didn’t have too. They just sent one of their goos to his house to threaten him. Now that IS unabmerican. I also think it was very Amercan to Promise to place a bullet in the arse of the inviduals\ that came to house agian.

pm317

Oh, put a sock in it. If that is all you got from this video, where the hell is your humanity? The up shot of that town hall exchange and this interview with the worried father is that congresspeople like Dingell don’t know what the fuck is in this bill. If he knew and had any ounce of compassion, he would have calmed the parent and told him exactly how the bill would effect his son’s care. Instead he lied about a non-existent amendment.

Katmoon

pm,

mouse and yazi are at it again. They come here to gain their bot badges I guess. As evidenced by the shit and run of their posts. Both are fools and cowards and couldn’t muster a kindness if their own lives depended on it.

lorac

I think you’ve got it! lol This is why fewer kids join girl scouts and boy scouts and 4-H now… they’re joining the Obama Youth Brigade (with a college chapter, of course!), and instead of learning how to be a good citizen, they’re gettin badges for being political messengers and obfuscators!

Katmoon

Actually I think that has a great deal to do with the health care bill, I truly believe many of the young think the large quantity of boomers are going to enslave them somehow as we age. They do not realize the previous government programs are what has been paid into for at least a quarter of a century by many, and the money from those programs (ss and medicaid medicare) has been robbed and stolen and used for all kinds of other things, regardless of what it was taken from us for to begin with. Many Millenium’s are scared spitless, they may actually have to do some things that quantify as work and may have to see others get what they want before the youngsters do; and gasp, they may actually have to “wait” for some financial gratification, as they age. Imagine it not getting what you want immediatley, and having to work for what you do get. It will probably drive them insane in droves.

I am being bias(and generalizing) in reverse, but have seen few examples of anything to the contrary from the “future” of America. What easier than continuing to take and take from Mommy and daddy’s age group and expect the same privileges that come with age without having to wait for them?

yazi

that’s not all i got from the video. i was responding to one point — that THIS GUY is not one of the people pelosi was talking about.

Animal Control

HOW DO YOU KNOW?

yazi

based on what she said. read my original comment.

http://shhhithitsthefan.wordpress.com/ It hits the fan

Even semi-human creatures from the planet Obot have a right to voice their opinions. So no problem speaking what is left of your mind. But perhaps you should try to understand the basics of human discourse. This man said that it was not his intention to drown out the opposition, only to make certain his voice was heard. On the other hand, Pelosi and Hoyer consider people like him attempting to make certain his voice IS heard un-American. It’s a really simple concept to grasp. Step away from the Kool-Aid.

lorac

I think s/he is buying into the black/white (not a pun) way they’re presenting the issues. But…. I thought Obama was supposed to be the master of nuance, that’s all we heard during the primary (in truth, he was just an equivacator, someone reluctant to commit to anything).

OT – BO is on TV (when isn’t he) giving out the presidential medals of freedom. He was just listing the things the Billie Jean King did, and my first thought was, of course she has accomplished so many things, honestly broken so many barriers and records (by hard work, not cheating), but he ended up president, and she “just” gets an award from the guy. The world is backwards.

lorac

He comes up behind them and puts his arms around them to put on the medal – oh, yuk!

And the announcer was saying that Billie Jean opened the way for women and gays. And then she initiates a kiss with Obama! Poor Billie Jean, either she’s given up the fight, or she needs stronger glasses…..

jbjd

Exactly. A distinction WITH a difference.

helenk

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574344672056749360.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Not only does congress want the same health care as those who pay their salaries they insist on frequent flyer pay.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE
helenk

SORRY

should read congress does NOT want the same health care

jwrjr

What would Obamacare say about Ted Kennedy? Something like “don’t give him anything other than pain pills”.

TeakWoodKite

check.

Patience

I’m the caregiver for my eldest brother (now a senior citizen) who was born with cerebral palsy. His future care was a constant source of anxiety for my mother, and one of the last things she talked about before she passed away.

I understand and sympathize with Mr. Sola’s alarm about the fate of his son and other people like him. We know that something’s got to give in order for government healthcare to be extended to many millions more Americans and illegal aliens. We know that rationing has an actuarial basis and that the disabled may not make the cut.

It doesn’t help that a healthcare adviser to the POTUS is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who’s made eugenic-like pronouncements about the topic. It doesn’t help that young people today crassly coin terms like Libtards or Repubtards.

My brother has taught me, my family and friends as much about life as history’s greatest philosophers. There but for the grace of God…

sandi78

“We know that rationing has an actuarial basis and that the disabled may not make the cut.”

No, I don’t “know” that. There is no reason for “rationing” at all. Where do people get this idea? Countries which have single-payer systems do not ration health care. I grew up in the UK, my family still lives there. My mother is 86, my aunt 87. Neither one of them has any health issues that are not treated, and very well treated, by their NHS doctors. What makes everyone believe that it must be the case here, any more than your health care is currently rationed by your health insurance carrier?

Patience

The US has a population nearly 5 times that of the UK. And unlike the UK, it has large borders with foreign countries that can easily be crossed. I wonder if facile comparisons are reasonable?

Of course healthcare here is already rationed to some extent. The question is, are we willing to settle for more?

I’ve said it before here that I believe there’s enough wealth in this country to somehow satisfactorily cover the healthcare needs of all Americans. But our government isn’t willing to make it the priority it deserves to be. Wars, financial and auto industry bailouts are just a few of the recent large-scale examples illustrating government’s arguably mis-guided priorities. And there are millions of smaller-scale instances of catering to special interests and political patrons. Wasteful government spending is pervasive in more than just the healthcare sector. Will the day ever come when legislators and other political leaders develop the courage and work ethic to clean up at least part of the byzantine and often self-serving messes they’ve created? Maybe then there wouldn’t be cause for such rancorous debate as we’re witnessing.

sandi78

“Facile comparisons” with any other countries which have single payer systems would be impossible, then. Mostly because all of them border other developed countries which have single-payer systems. Canada would be the exception.

Yes, the US is bigger than the UK. The US is bigger than most countries which have single-payer systems. It stands to reason that there would also be more people paying into a single-payer system here, not only more people using it.

Why do you believe there would be rationing of care with a single-payer system? It’s just not true.

lorac

Sandi, I did hear one thing, though. I can’t remember if it was Canada or the UK, but they said that there are two drugs that work really well for breast cancer, but they wouldn’t allow the patients to have them, because they were expensive.

I guess that’s not actually “rationing care”, because presumably the patients were provided with something else (but something less effective). But if this report I heard is true, it does bother me…. It was about a month ago I heard it, I think on the news – did you happen to hear it, also? What do you think?

sandi78

lorac,

I have a vague memory of that and from what I recall, the drugs didn’t actually perform significantly better than those already in use and so the considerable additional expense wasn’t really justified. I have no problem with that reasoning myself. Had they been the only drugs available, I have no doubt that they would be have been approved.

Insurance companies here do the same thing, you know, but unless you are one of the people wanting a specific drug, you never hear about it.

About three years ago, my ex was suffering from colon cancer. The cancer had moved to his liver, and his doctor wanted him to have a new, but no longer experimental, treatment which I believe is regularly used now. This happened right at the time when he was changing his health insurance company at work. He worked for NBC. The “old” insurance co. said they would pay for the treatment, the about-to-be “new” one gave his wife a verbal assurance over the phone that they would cover it. So they went ahead and changed. After he had the treatment, the “new” insurance company refused to pay, leaving him with a $30,000 bill. Obviously, get it in writing first. He died just over a year later.

lorac

Sandi, sorry about your loss. Even though he was an ex, it sounds like he was still part of your life.

After I posted, I realized that of course, insurance companies could do the same thing. But I hadn’t heard what you said about those drugs not being more effective – so that doesn’t bother me as much, then.

Patience

Research may help you gain a better understanding. I recommend it.

Tammy

You are an idiot TOO.
Read the facts on my posts below.

No, better, Google the Telegraph and put in National Health Care.

Then read the horror stories, you morons.

Facts beat out “hope” every time.
jbjd

How many times have I posted that concept when it comes to health care? Okay, patience…

Tammy

Here you go again.
Let’s look at a few facts.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649
Tammy

Now I KNOW that you are an Obama plant, sandi78.

What you are saying is a flat out LIE.

You never lived in the UK.
Tell us where?
Tell everyone here the procedures that your family had to endure and exactly the time it took to have those procedures done.

My husband is a Brit, and after reading your posts, he laughed his ass off.

Just a bunch of crap.
We(the informed) have caught on to your bullshit.
tzada

Illegals are to be covered for free. We pay they get a free pass. This policy will give incentive for more and more and more people to enter this county. All with the right to HC on the backs of legal, law abiding citizens of the USA.

So now tell me how this could possibly be acomplished? Tell me how that the working population will not be put into slavery for others?

This HC Bill removes our civil rights. Period
The rationing is not even the point. Civil Rights violations and servitude is.

http://shhhithitsthefan.wordpress.com/ It hits the fan

Coulda had something to do with Obama saying that an elderly lady would be better off taking pain pills than getting a pacemaker. More cost effective and all. Just maybe. I’m supposin…

trixta

Unbelievable! Now Obama is practicing medicine!

Peggy Sue

As I understand it, Mr. Sola’s son not only has cerebral palsy but now has cancer. Any parent in the same situation would fight like hell for his/her own child. All of this comes out of the WH and the Dems’ inability [or unwillingness] to articulate a clear message or take their time to fashion a real reform bill, rather than dictating like feeble gods perched in DC.

And if we’re talking mobster behavior, I also heard Mr Sola and his family received a threat in the middle of the night because of Sola’s expression of outrage and fear.

And this is what Pelosi considers unAmerican???

We need to send these clowns packing.

Thanks for the piece, pm. Infuriating!

http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

That’s what he was saying in the clip – I think Megyn missed it, thus not following up on his saying that.

Thanks for the great post, pm317 – such an intense story…

Peggy Sue

I couldn’t figure out why Megyn didn’t follow that statement up, Amy. It’s worrisome enough for a parent with a disabled child, but what makes this man’s anguish and fear all the more understandable is knowing his son has a life threatening disease. Will he receive the treatment he really needs? Or, in a world where treatments and care are triaged [due to finite resources] will he be pushed to the end of the line?

It’s a reasonable question, a question that even dedicated Dems are beginning to ask.

You cannot dismiss an Ed Koch who is raising the same concern about how this program will work for the elderly, the disabled and all those who are the most vulernable among us.

God [or the devil depending on your point of view] is in the details. And that’s what the public is demanding. With good reason, I think.

Katmoon

This is so sad,why did this man have to be put through this. What kind of coward threatens this mans family? Disgusting,and this type of nastiness from idiot o supporters clearly will not be tolerated.
William L. Donlon

OMG!
The “Politically Gifted One” has a “Political Glass Jaw”. I’m shocked.

He is floundering badly:

Greedy Doctors chopping off feet because it pays more?
I mean really!

AARP endorsements that don’t exist for a plan that doesn’t exist.

Etc. Etc. Etc. Blah! Blah! Blah! And by the way, your a racist if you question any or this.

Classic behavior of the “Peter Principle” person elevated above the level of his competence.

The ‘community organizer” lacking the “chops” to be President has become the national Rev. Wright instead.

lorac

Your last line is particularly scary.

HC123

Progressives aren’t required to be compassionate. Or let me rephrase: “It is not coldhearted when the good guys do it”.
Katmoon

Trying to figure why my last post didn’t make it.

I’ll add to it. I mentioned disgusting in the last post, and truly if there is a lack of compassion it is because there is hatred being stirred by sites like Huffington Post. I check on it, to see what filth is being dished out, and currently there is an article about militia groups which is nothing more than a means to stir up the left. It is worse than some of the foulest garbage spewed during the election. Yet you know those who complain about it will be hit with the freedom of speech argument. There isn’t any compassion anymore, vilification for the ones in dissent is the name of the game and has been for over a year. You try to fight back and you are labeled, and now it is kicked up a notch as to being part of a militia, by a “website” that is actually promoting hate speech and violent actions with the article on Huffington post. These fools who can see not one thing wrong with what they propose and how they propose going about things do not have any idea what compassion is, or they simply do not care. It is all about them just like it is all about their dear leader. Sickening.

imustprotest

Yes and remember all of the comments and names that these “progressives” called baby Trig? I wonder where the compassion has gone.

HulaHula

No. I don’t remember people calling Sarah Palin’s baby names. Please link to what you are talking about.

imustprotest

Sorry, I won’t link to those comments and articles, I honestly don’t have the stomach for it. I’m sure if you google Trig’s name you will find a disgusting eye full.

lorac

Just as I wish they would stop calling all the tea party and town hall protesters “republicans” (because I think the participants are all stripes of Americans), I wish they would stop always saying “the dems” (I don’t mean you, you said “progressive”).

I think these people (like on HuffPo) are Obamacrats – it’s certainly not the centrists, or the Hillary wing of the party. It paints all dems as the same, which of course (especially since May 31, 2008) is not true. But I suppose it’s in both parties’ political advantage to keep portraying it as a binary thing, even though it’s so not true…

Docelder

Obamacrats

Yes, not even democrats at all. More like a mirror image of a neocon. Opposite but identical in functionality.
Scout

I am guilty of that. When I say Dems, what I mean are the Dem leaders plus or minus the DNC.

lorac

Scout, good news. Did you read up thread? I think you’re going to have company, you won’t have to sit in the corner all by yourself now lol

tzada

Miltia are a Constitutional right. They are being demonized by the current administration. This same administration wants to form their National Army. It takes no big leap in thought to understand their draconian thinking.

Please read this article and watch the videos that link from there. You can plainly see the future of our country if we do not defend our rights.

http://blog.sunvalleyonline.com/index.php/greg-farber/2009/07/the-dick-act-of-1902-can-not-be-repealed/

tzada

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee talks on the phone as a woman asks a question at a town hall event

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3FnWNkIzU

http://shhhithitsthefan.wordpress.com/ It hits the fan

And to think that I once met Lee and shook her hand. I even had my picture taken with her. Man do I feel hoodwinked.

jbjd

My son asked whether I would shake BO’s hand if presented with the occasion.

lorac

and……?

Do you remember that face Lucy (I love Lucy) used to make when she’d find out she screwed up? That’s what MY face does when I imagine ever having to meet that guy in person lol

jbjd

lorac, I knew as soon as I hit ‘send’ someone would ask. I said, I would not shake his hand. So you know what my 16-year-old autistic son came back with? ‘You taught me, respect the office if not the man…’ (I hate when my words are used against me.)
http://jbjd.wordpress.com

tzada

Some people may not be aware of this Annenburg = Bill Ayers and BHO

Fact Check = Soros and BHO

MoveOn= Soros and BHO

snopes = Soros and BHO

Now who are you going to believe?

tzada

Obama’s Nazi Straw man: An Old Alinsky Trick

Hardly qualifies as ‘Constitutional Law’ if you ask me.

Covering for oneself by accusing the other fellow has been the left’s most successful deception for decades now. It took on its best traction lately, as leftists within Moveon.org and others have used this Nazi smear tactic for the past eight years against George W. Bush. They’ve seen how well it’s worked and just can’t stop themselves now.

Here’s a little hint from me on the Nazi card. If a few folks actually do start showing up at townhalls, opposing the MediCoup*, even dressed like Hitler and carrying a Swastika poster, I’ll lay good hard cash on a bet that they’ve been sent by this Alinskyite President or his minions to deceive, just as Saul did with getting students to dress like the KKK at that rally back in the 70s.

And any newsman worth an ounce of table salt ought to be able to pin the tail right on that Alinsky donkey.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/obamas_nazi_straw_man_an_old_a.html

tzada

The Washington Times is asking for videos of Town Hall and Tea Party encounters or meetings.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/07/readers-send-us-your-town-hall-videos/

Disaster plans leave disabled behind

Four years after Hurricane Katrina exposed major deficiencies in the capacity of governments to evacuate and care for the disabled during a natural disaster, America’s most vulnerable citizens are barely considered in most emergency plans, according to a report being issued Wednesday by the National Council on Disability.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/12/disaster-plans-leave-disabled-behind/
Dosha

Watching Mr. Solis brought tears to my eyes. The B.S. response of Senator Dingle was totally a lie and inappropriate but so predictable for a politician no matter how mentally feeble. I gotta add that Dingle doesn’t seem to be that bright of a bulb. Incredibly, there was no compassion from Dingle whatsoever for Mr. Solis seeking truth from him about this Plan. If Mr. Dingle was under the Obama Health Plan he wouldn’t have gotten his 2 knee replacements nor his hip replacement, guess that’s why lawmakers want the Federal Plan and then there is the Peasant Plan for the rest of us. Mr. Solis deserves better than a clueless Senator and threats in the dark of night, and so do we deserve better than bused in paid phonies by Acorn and Soros working against what is best for the majority of us. It just keeps getting worse. In the plan that I did peruse, government bureaucrats seem to be in lieu of care and compassion for those with special needs, be they young or old. It’s amazing to me as a boomer that everything has come to sh** as I get older and closer to retirement (oh like at 85) sigh.

lorac

I think it’s because these guys have come out to push a plan (which they haven’t even read). Town halls are supposed to be a time for them to listen to the people and HEAR them, aren’t they? But these politicians are simply using them as an opportunity to try to sway people, not listen to them.

Docelder

That is exactly it. These town halls are being used to sell the people as opposed to being used to gather input from the people. This has revealed a heavy handed (we know best) mindset from many congress people. Americans resent being told they are too stupid to think for themselves. But, that is the ultimate message being sent.

http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

It’s not defensible if someone who opposes Obamacare is protesting or it is defensible when it’s an obot does it…which is it?

It’s not defensible if an average american citizen does it…but it is okay for members of the New Black Panthers or ACORN and SEIU to strong arm during these events. Is that correct?

Your president seems to think it’s correct.

Are you a thug by association then?
tzada

The White House home of the whooper?

USA Today fact-checks Obama’s town-hall assertions

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/12/usa-today-fact-checks-obamas-town-hall-assertions/

jbjd

I have already proven, Annenberg Political Fact Check does not check facts. http://jbjd/wordpress.com

http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

Oops…don’t know where the post went that this^^^ was a response to. Sorry!

pm317

Sometimes, comments show up first at the bottom before realigning up the thread.

I’m a Linda too

Just heartwrenching what democrats are doing to our country and citizens.
ame

Here’s something interesting; at the Dingell town hall meeting, it turns out that the protest sign (Obama with Hitler mustache) actually originated from the Larouche group. That’s an extreme left wing group that SUPPORTS SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE. The mainstream media has been attributing that sign to those who are against Obama’s plan altogether.
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=Gdnz4zprSU

Peggy Sue

The thing about the “end of life” counseling is not the counseling itself. Doctors and families have these conversations all the time. The problem is taking it out of a doctor’s sphere of influence, advising patients and families alike, and putting it into the hands of government panels. Who will be sitting on these panels? Who will be doing the advising? The reason families are willing to discuss these life and death decisions with a doctor is because they trust their medical advice. Then, you take that advice and make the informed but difficult decision in terms of what you think is best, what your loved one would want and what allows you to sleep at night.

It is not easy. I’ve been there.

But what would make it impossible is a governmental proxy pushing a family one way or another. Yes, end-of-life medical care is expensive. And sometimes we go the wrong way. But when it’s your child, your parent, your spouse, the math is not your primary consideration.

I dare anyone with a desperately sick or impaired love one to stick to “The Principles” [ref. Ezekiel Emmanuel, who advises the WH] when that time comes. It goes against human nature, which is the flaw in all these Utopian ideas. It’s the rule of unintended consqeuences that worries most people. And without a clear message and details on this and other questions [like how the hell we'll pay for this], those worries and the opposition will continue. And the opportunity for “real” reform will be lost.

Docelder

Yes, dropping “end of life” into a spreadsheet somehow changes the whole meaning of it. It is because we like to believe we are above everything being about the money. In the end most things are actually about money, but we should strive to be better than that when we can.
Peggy Sue

Oops. Didn’t intend my post to be a reply to ame. Me bad!
pm317

As a doctor put it, we know it is end-of-life care only after the fact. While the person is being treated there is every chance that person may respond well and live comfortably for who knows, 1,3,5,10+ years. Who is to say 1 or whatever year is not worth enough to try? The discussion should be about how to maximize quality and access to care for all and that is not happening.

lorac

Exactly. And a young person could be hit by a bus tomorrow. There are no guarantees. It really infuriates me that they want to limit care based on age.

Capstone

What Government panel are you referring to?

Cynic

MSNBC: “Socialism” is just a code word for the N-word. Racists are just angry that there’s a black man in the White house.

http://thestimulist.com/listen-up-lou-dobbs-socialist-and-the-n-word/

That race card sure is handy, you can use it in every occasion!

Docelder

you can use it in every occasion

Like a joker card?

lorac

Ha! Exactly. It’s the “wild” card! The “Get out of jail free” card! Oh, I think I just mixed poker and monopoly….
US MOSS

Little kids only use Joker cards.

Let’s see these pansies play with the big boys

Montana Red Dog!

http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Puma for Life

By forcing people to have end of life counselling starting at age 65 and every five years after that, you are implanting the suggestion that it is coming time to die. This is the opposite of positive thinking but it works in the same way. Do not underestimate the power of suggestion, negative or positive, or the “self-fulfilling prophecy” concepts. These types of mental suggestions do work; so by merely talking about end of life starting at a certain age, you are implanting the idea that it is time to die. The only way I would go along with this is if the death counselling started at the age of 18, so every one had the same thought pattern implanted, which of course would make it all a joke. This is very insidious and evil and in my opinion Sarah Palin was correct in labeling the Death Panels. Oh, and by the way, there is a difference between euthanasia and eugenics.

Peggy Sue

That’s a chilling but important point to make, Puma. I think families do have these conversations among themselves, frequently writing out DNR instructions and other end of life medical wishes. The Terri Schiavo case brought many people to attention and scrambling for legal advice.

And you’re right. The idea of starting at age 65 [regardless of your health] and the suggestion that these “counseling sessions” should be mandatory is very fishy and makes even Dems very uncomfortable.

jbjd

PS, if it’s “fishy,” remember, you have to turn them in.
tzada

My thinking is this.

1st person is sick, really terminal

2nd person is very much well

The verdict? Person 2 will be deemed to go to their maker.

Why? Because person 1 will die soon, person 2 will live on a long time. So two birds with one stone, two lives gone and more SS money for corrupt people. Any doubt in anyones mind how ACORN would vote on a white person?
karn9h

they’re not mandatory.

karn9h

end-of-life planning would be voluntary under the proposed provision.

pm317

Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients. Well, the problem with this whole fiasco is nobody knows what is in the existent/non-existent bill and whatever Obama has said/done so far is not helpful. See his interview below. See his response about amputation and doctors and his USPS analogy, the list goes on and on. You have the nerve to come here and challenge us. Go read the fucking bill, if there is one. While you’re at it read about the all the behind the scenes deals he has made with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

karn9h

Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients.

I will grant you that, but that is what happens for every procedure/consultation that Medicare (or another gov’t plan) pays for. You can’t cover someone’s health care without….offering to pay for their health care.

pm317

As I learnt from a doctor, they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate. But what the hell is this “voluntary” provision doing in a bill with a monetary incentive for doctors? What would be the psychological impact of these counseling sessions on senior citizens? A society devoid of humanity will relegate seniors as useless. This tactless incentivized idea comes very close to that. If you had older parents you know how they already feel depressed about aging and not being productive citizens and not being able to do “normal” things. Where is the humanity in what Obama is saying in his townhall meetings? See my other post “He lied to you, Suckers!” where I have Stewart’s video mocking Obama’s townhall response where he wryly “jokes” there are not enough govt workers to carry out what the questioner, a senior citizen thinks/fears will be done to her health care.

karn9h

they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate

Sure, but they could also charge for their time and if that’s not a covered expense lots of people won’t have access to this kind of care. The proposed provisions are simply classifying this kind of care as COVERED.

It strikes me as very humane considering the consequences (about which I, unfortunately, DO have some experience) of reaching the end of one’s life without having carefully considered these issues because you couldn’t afford to pay for the consultation.

pm317

You can sugar coat your defense all you want but there are unintended consequences here and they are not pretty (for a humane society). Leave it to the patient and the doctor. If the doctors are already doing it, why should it be classified as anything? Especially put in the context of everything Obama has said about it, it is very disturbing. Your arguments are lame.

The goal of health care reform should be to maximize access and quality for all regardless of age, gender, and preconditions while minimizing costs. Now go formulate that into an optimization problem with a solution and give it to your president.

As I said before end-of-life care is a misnomer and we only know it, recognize it as such after the fact. As patients (even older patients) get treated the doctor does not know how well they will respond to the care, may be they will live comfortably for 1, 3, 5 or whatever years. Who are you as a govt bureaucrat to lecture them (or make/force their doctor to lecture them) when enough is enough. Your blase attitude is disturbing to me.

http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Puma for Life

One more question: is there any other country in the world who is actively working to shorten the life expectancy of its citizens? I’d like to know.

Animal Control

China

lorac

Maybe they’re working on us, too, though – with the tainted baby formula and other bad products they ship to us.

karn9h

can you show me how this country is?

Jude

That video is downright scary. It is scary to watch the right wing propaganda machine in action. A “real news” person would have interviewed someone in the know about the proposed healthcare plan and address the issue raised by this father. Then there would be a discussion of the important. Instead, they give this guy airtime to repeat an unsubstantiated notion about obamacare and then let him talk about the thugs supposedly sent by the administration to his home!!! This is outright propaganda and very distructive to our nation. Megan Kelly should be ashamed of herself.

The democrats look to be a bunch of bunglers whose only ideas involve throwing tax payer money to the wind.

I believe the USA is on a slippery slope and I don’t see anywhere the leadership we so desparately need right now.

pm317

This comment is ludicrous. The congressman could not tell the man what was in the bill that would help that parent. He is the one who will sign that bill into law without of course knowing what is in it. The dad could not get an answer straight from the horse’s mouth as it were but you want Kelly to bring an expert to explain it to him. What nonsense.

http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

You haven’t read the 1000 page bill, then.

It’s called rationing and it’s there thanks to the likes of Dr. ~~Mengele~~ Emmanuel.

Obama knows his destruction tactics and his minions all too well.
http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

What if you’re never sick? Can you miss the end-of- life speeches?

http://helpmejoseph.typepad.com/puma_for_life/ Puma for Life

You can say you don’t want one, but the doctor has to offer and the doctor will be paid if he gives you an end-of-life speech. Thus, the doctor is going to have an incentive to talk to you about this.

I do not go to doctors; I prefer alternative care, but I will be forced to buy into one of these plans even though I cannot afford it (I currently have no health insurance because I cannot afford it, but also I do not do western medicine.) So, I will have to pay for something I do not want. Of course, I can avoid going to see the doctor, which I would unless I broke a bone, then unless I can set it myself, I will be forced to see one of these guys.

Of course, they have talked about forcing people to have physicals once a year, and even flu shots, but I will go to jail before someone forces a flu shot on me or any of their other procedures.

I am healthy and one way I stay healthy is to not go to doctors.

tzada

Agreed, in fact you could be me. I have friends and relatives that go to doctors all the time. They take loads of pills and I can see them withering as the months go by. To be sure they will start to shut down alternative medicine and sales of herbs.

I grow my own herbs and take what I need as I need it. Nutrition is the basis of health. Know you trace minerals too. Below is the point I was trying to make in my civil rights post.

Rights and wrongs

You hear it from ObamaCare advocates incessantly, and the point even gets conceded occasionally by ObamaCare opponents: people have a right to health care. When people make that argument, it’s designed to change the debate from one of public policy to a neo-Civil Rights movement. Not surprisingly, the UN has bitten on this canard, too. However, not only is health care not a right in the American tradition, that argument undermines one of the key principles of American liberty, as I explain in my American Issues Project column today:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/aip-column-rights-and-wrongs/

Betty

We need to find a way to let the Senators and Representatives know that we are going to force then to sign on to the same plan they pass. Nothing else will do.

There is a big difference for congress between planning a health care package for “the people” as opposed to planning one for “ourselves“. So we have to find a way to let them be utterly sure they will be using the same public package they “craft” for all of us.

Maybe in states that allow referendums can start the ball rolling.

Betty

And it would be good if it was possible to get on at least one ballet this Nov. So the fact is staring them right in the face when they go back to Washington in September. If there are elections this year.
tzada

There is another VOTE THEM OUT. Class action lawsuits.

Sarah Palin: Concerning the “Death Panels”

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116471698434

See this link to go along
Obama’s Nazi Straw man: An Old Alinsky Trick at the American Thinker

“Death to Obama” Sign Holder Detained by Secret Service

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/Death-to-Obama-Sign-Holder-Detained-53134147.html

It is no great leap to figure out the next move.
What form will the Reichstag fire take? Watch for It. It will be blamed on a white Militia man, KKK or skinhead, who has guns and uses the internet. They will use a “tool” that has not only drunk but bathed in the kool aide. This tool will implicate perfectly innocent people that he has met.

Read Obama’s Nazi Straw man: An Old Alinsky Trick
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/obamas_nazi_straw_man_an_old_a.html

Mari

Why does Obama want to kill my parents?! What did they ever do to him!?

lorac

He’s got (abandonment and identity) issues with his own parents. I think he doesn’t like anyone’s parents….
karn9h

when did he say that he did?

pm317

Comment by HARP | 2009-08-13 11:53:16

Ha! Folks who really want to stick it to Obama and sow hysteria about “death panels” will extract this from Obama’s same fateful interview with David Leonhardt of the Times:

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

DAVID LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, “ethicists”. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/08/there-he-goes-again.html

pm317

Link to the interview:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03Obama-t.html
karn9h

well, i’ll give you that. i can see how that’s a troubling response. i would like to see a lot more spelled out about that.

pm317

Look for Pat Racimora’s excellent posts here on this topic.

o

The medicine Czar is Rahms brother.

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/inconvenient-truth-about-death-panel.html

he discusses allocation systems. “rationing”

He discusses measuring “disability adjusted life years”

He discusses Quality of life years.

last but not least a patients value to society and reciprocity.

So if you ain’t worth much, we aren’t going to put good dollars into bad bodies.

So we have metrics for the “Advanced care Planning Associates” to work with. If grannie can’t carry her weight, she gets pretty pills and a rcoking chair. Free Hope and change Afghan.

lorac

Yes, and what a senior may have contributed to society (work, raising children/grandchildren, volunteer work, neighborhood work) over the course of their life matters nothing.

It’s only “how much time do you have to do EVEN more, because the past is past and is no longer important, and since you’re a senior, you have nothing to contribute, anyway”

cathnealon

I’m afraid BO and Mechelle have compassion but only for those who don’t pay taxes and who are living off the rest of us–they are the ones who don’t care whether this crap plan goes through. Oh, and also everyone on Capitol Hill who can keep their A-one health plan without waiting–heck they send the doctors to their offices. Every word that comes out of BO’s mouth is a lie and his Dr Death Ezekial Emanuel will be calling the shots on whether your kid with cerebral palsy gets any treatment.
o

Importing Canadian death Panels: http://race42008.com/2009/08/12/importing-canadian-death-panels/

There has been a lot of talk of health care death panels of late, with the left and right arguing over the exact details and purpose of the end of life government committee proposal in HR3200. When applied at a macro level, the term ‘death panel’ is in fact entirely accurate in describing the bureaucratic structure of government health insurance.

Both federal and provincial governments in Canada employ many death panels, which actually do lead to bureaucrats making decisions on behalf of patience and their physicians. Through their process of deciding what pharmaceuticals, equipment and funding for services should be approved, these death panels actually do determine who lives and dies in Canada.

The most terrifying example of a Canadian death panels, is the authorization process for pharmaceutical drugs and medical devices. At the federal level, the Canadian Therapeutic Products Directorate is responsible for the first stage of this bureaucratic nightmare. This directorate consists of twelve government bureau’s and agencies, and acts as the Canadian equivalent to the FDA, although much more bureaucratic, less effective and underfunded in comparison to their American counterpart. In fact, the Canadian Therapeutic Products Directorate piggy-backs on the investments made by the FDA (US taxpayers) when clinical trials for new drugs and equipment are initiated. This is one of their methods for compensating for a lack of government funding and oversight.

Although credited with forcing large Pharma companies to sell drugs to Canadians at a lower cost then in the US (by eliminating competition), the median approval time for new drugs in Canada is 645 days vs 371 days in the United States. This is an example of the trade-off President Obama is asking Americans to make with his health care reform legislation. Universal coverage, mandates and government control, in exchange for delays in preventative and critical treatment, or; the deaths of a few to benefit the greater society.

The next stage in the process of approving pharmaceutical drugs and medical devices in Canada, rests with the provincial governments. In Canada’s largest province, Ontario, it is the manufacturer’s responsibility to seek listing on the Formulary/CDI by filing a complete submission to the ministry’s Drug Programs Branch for review by the ministry’s expert advisory committee, the Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee (death panel #2 in this process). Once the submission for the new drug is approved by this panel, manufacturers must develop the sourcing protocol and market assessment, prior to the their application being reviewed by the provincial government’s Management Board of Cabinet, Legislation and Regulations Committee.

The Drug Quality and Therapeutics Committee is appointed by and reports directly to elected politicians (Minister of Health) in the Ontario government. The committees (panel) main responsibility is to determining the value for money of drug products (pharmacoeconomic evaluations), which unlike the United States, does not rely on the free market and consumer demand when deciding what drugs and equipment are distributed to health care providers. This second death panel is a model for President Obama’s End of life provision in the 1018 page health care reform legislation. Government appointed and controlled, this panel will determine treatment and funding for end of life care for our seniors.
cathnealon

The truth is that loved ones and the physician will no longer be in charge–a grieving husband says to the doctor, “please Dr. can you get the specialist in to perform the surgical removal of the brain tumor so she can live?” The doctor states that he’ll get back to the poor husband. After days the doctor states that he still has not received authorization from the government controlled panel that will pay for the procedure. Meanwhile, the patient has lapsed into a coma. The husband has no recourse because he does not have the money to pay for the surgery. The doctor calls him after about a week and states “we just have to make her as comfortable as possible with drugs and she eventually will stop breathing or go into cardiac arrest. I’m so sorry.’ This is government controlled Obamacare. Welcome to the United Socialist States of America.
required reading

Yes, we can? No, he can’t!

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a1277/a1277_thumb.jpg
tzada

Obamateurism of the Day

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/obamateurism-of-the-day-96/

AMA to Obama: Stop accusing us of wanting to hack off people’s body parts, champ

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/12/ama-to-obama-stop-accusing-us-of-wanting-to-hack-off-peoples-body-parts-champ/
HulaHula

We are not Canadians. We are not British. We are Americans. We can design a much better system than they did. How can we change our health care system or our health insurance system so more of us can get better care for less money? How can we change the system so people can leave their current jobs and start new businesses without losing their health insurance? Let’s talk about how to achieve a better system.