Comments on: Where Is the Compassion? http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/ Sun, 27 May 2012 07:03:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: Kathy http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243311 Kathy Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:02:29 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243311 One of the most shocking things I've read was a link posted in an NQ article yesterday that was one man's analysis of HCR. Part of the bill specifically states that a Secretary would determine how many readmissions to a hospital (any hospital--not just the one you are ususally treated at)you are entitled to for a chronic condition. After that you would not be allowed treatment for that condition. The bill also states there would be NO process for review or appeal--what the secretary says is final. I am not on my own computer or I would post the link. Perhaps someone else has it? If that's not rationed care, what is??? One of the most shocking things I’ve read was a link posted in an NQ article yesterday that was one man’s analysis of HCR. Part of the bill specifically states that a Secretary would determine how many readmissions to a hospital (any hospital–not just the one you are ususally treated at)you are entitled to for a chronic condition. After that you would not be allowed treatment for that condition. The bill also states there would be NO process for review or appeal–what the secretary says is final. I am not on my own computer or I would post the link. Perhaps someone else has it?

If that’s not rationed care, what is???

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243302 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:41:23 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243302 Yep, that about sums it up. Yep, that about sums it up.

]]> By: HulaHula http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243301 HulaHula Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:30:24 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243301 We are not Canadians. We are not British. We are Americans. We can design a much better system than they did. How can we change our health care system or our health insurance system so more of us can get better care for less money? How can we change the system so people can leave their current jobs and start new businesses without losing their health insurance? Let's talk about how to achieve a better system. We are not Canadians. We are not British. We are Americans. We can design a much better system than they did. How can we change our health care system or our health insurance system so more of us can get better care for less money? How can we change the system so people can leave their current jobs and start new businesses without losing their health insurance? Let’s talk about how to achieve a better system.

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243261 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:14:35 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243261 You can sugar coat your defense all you want but there are unintended consequences here and they are not pretty (for a humane society). Leave it to the patient and the doctor. If the doctors are already doing it, why should it be classified as anything? Especially put in the context of everything Obama has said about it, it is very disturbing. Your arguments are lame. The goal of health care reform should be to maximize access and quality for all regardless of age, gender, and preconditions while minimizing costs. Now go formulate that into an optimization problem with a solution and give it to your president. As I said before end-of-life care is a misnomer and we only know it, recognize it as such after the fact. As patients (even older patients) get treated the doctor does not know how well they will respond to the care, may be they will live comfortably for 1, 3, 5 or whatever years. Who are you as a govt bureaucrat to lecture them (or make/force their doctor to lecture them) when enough is enough. Your blase attitude is disturbing to me. You can sugar coat your defense all you want but there are unintended consequences here and they are not pretty (for a humane society). Leave it to the patient and the doctor. If the doctors are already doing it, why should it be classified as anything? Especially put in the context of everything Obama has said about it, it is very disturbing. Your arguments are lame.

The goal of health care reform should be to maximize access and quality for all regardless of age, gender, and preconditions while minimizing costs. Now go formulate that into an optimization problem with a solution and give it to your president.

As I said before end-of-life care is a misnomer and we only know it, recognize it as such after the fact. As patients (even older patients) get treated the doctor does not know how well they will respond to the care, may be they will live comfortably for 1, 3, 5 or whatever years. Who are you as a govt bureaucrat to lecture them (or make/force their doctor to lecture them) when enough is enough. Your blase attitude is disturbing to me.

]]> By: Ellen D http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243258 Ellen D Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:06:43 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243258 I'm in medicare - I choose my own doctors. I chose my own in Canada too because all of them were in the program. I’m in medicare – I choose my own doctors.

I chose my own in Canada too because all of them were in the program.

]]> By: karn9h http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243251 karn9h Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:56:31 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243251 <blockquote>they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate</blockquote> Sure, but they could also charge for their time and if that's not a covered expense lots of people won't have access to this kind of care. The proposed provisions are simply classifying this kind of care as COVERED. It strikes me as very humane considering the consequences (about which I, unfortunately, DO have some experience) of reaching the end of one's life without having carefully considered these issues because you couldn't afford to pay for the consultation.

they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate

Sure, but they could also charge for their time and if that’s not a covered expense lots of people won’t have access to this kind of care. The proposed provisions are simply classifying this kind of care as COVERED.

It strikes me as very humane considering the consequences (about which I, unfortunately, DO have some experience) of reaching the end of one’s life without having carefully considered these issues because you couldn’t afford to pay for the consultation.

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243226 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:03:16 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243226 As I learnt from a doctor, they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate. But what the hell is this "voluntary" provision doing in a bill with a monetary incentive for doctors? What would be the psychological impact of these counseling sessions on senior citizens? A society devoid of humanity will relegate seniors as useless. This tactless incentivized idea comes very close to that. If you had older parents you know how they already feel depressed about aging and not being productive citizens and not being able to do "normal" things. Where is the humanity in what Obama is saying in his townhall meetings? See my other post "He lied to you, Suckers!" where I have Stewart's video mocking Obama's townhall response where he wryly "jokes" there are not enough govt workers to carry out what the questioner, a senior citizen thinks/fears will be done to her health care. As I learnt from a doctor, they are taught to give patients this bit of advice on their own when the time and place are appropriate. But what the hell is this “voluntary” provision doing in a bill with a monetary incentive for doctors? What would be the psychological impact of these counseling sessions on senior citizens? A society devoid of humanity will relegate seniors as useless. This tactless incentivized idea comes very close to that. If you had older parents you know how they already feel depressed about aging and not being productive citizens and not being able to do “normal” things. Where is the humanity in what Obama is saying in his townhall meetings? See my other post “He lied to you, Suckers!” where I have Stewart’s video mocking Obama’s townhall response where he wryly “jokes” there are not enough govt workers to carry out what the questioner, a senior citizen thinks/fears will be done to her health care.

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243222 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:54:10 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243222 Look for Pat Racimora's excellent posts here on this topic. Look for Pat Racimora’s excellent posts here on this topic.

]]> By: tzada http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243221 tzada Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:48:44 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243221 <strong>Obamateurism of the Day</strong> http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/obamateurism-of-the-day-96/ <strong>AMA to Obama: Stop accusing us of wanting to hack off people’s body parts, champ</strong> http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/12/ama-to-obama-stop-accusing-us-of-wanting-to-hack-off-peoples-body-parts-champ/ Obamateurism of the Day

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/obamateurism-of-the-day-96/

AMA to Obama: Stop accusing us of wanting to hack off people’s body parts, champ

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/12/ama-to-obama-stop-accusing-us-of-wanting-to-hack-off-peoples-body-parts-champ/

]]> By: karn9h http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243220 karn9h Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:48:00 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243220 well, i'll give you that. i can see how that's a troubling response. i would like to see a lot more spelled out about that. well, i’ll give you that. i can see how that’s a troubling response. i would like to see a lot more spelled out about that.

]]> By: tzada http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243218 tzada Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:43:50 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243218 Agreed, in fact you could be me. I have friends and relatives that go to doctors all the time. They take loads of pills and I can see them withering as the months go by. To be sure they will start to shut down alternative medicine and sales of herbs. I grow my own herbs and take what I need as I need it. Nutrition is the basis of health. Know you trace minerals too. Below is the point I was trying to make in my civil rights post. <strong>Rights and wrongs</strong> <blockquote>You hear it from ObamaCare advocates incessantly, and the point even gets conceded occasionally by ObamaCare opponents: people have a right to health care. When people make that argument, it’s designed to change the debate from one of public policy to a neo-Civil Rights movement. Not surprisingly, the UN has bitten on this canard, too. However, not only is health care not a right in the American tradition, that argument undermines one of the key principles of American liberty, as I explain in my American Issues Project column today:</blockquote> http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/aip-column-rights-and-wrongs/ Agreed, in fact you could be me. I have friends and relatives that go to doctors all the time. They take loads of pills and I can see them withering as the months go by. To be sure they will start to shut down alternative medicine and sales of herbs.

I grow my own herbs and take what I need as I need it. Nutrition is the basis of health. Know you trace minerals too. Below is the point I was trying to make in my civil rights post.

Rights and wrongs

You hear it from ObamaCare advocates incessantly, and the point even gets conceded occasionally by ObamaCare opponents: people have a right to health care. When people make that argument, it’s designed to change the debate from one of public policy to a neo-Civil Rights movement. Not surprisingly, the UN has bitten on this canard, too. However, not only is health care not a right in the American tradition, that argument undermines one of the key principles of American liberty, as I explain in my American Issues Project column today:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/13/aip-column-rights-and-wrongs/

]]> By: karn9h http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243217 karn9h Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:40:42 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243217 <blockquote>Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients. </blockquote> I will grant you that, but that is what happens for every procedure/consultation that Medicare (or another gov't plan) pays for. You can't cover someone's health care without....offering to pay for their health care.

Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients.

I will grant you that, but that is what happens for every procedure/consultation that Medicare (or another gov’t plan) pays for. You can’t cover someone’s health care without….offering to pay for their health care.

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243214 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:31:32 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243214 Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients. Well, the problem with this whole fiasco is nobody knows what is in the existent/non-existent bill and whatever Obama has said/done so far is not helpful. See his interview below. See his response about amputation and doctors and his USPS analogy, the list goes on and on. You have the nerve to come here and challenge us. Go read the fucking bill, if there is one. While you're at it read about the all the behind the scenes deals he has made with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Yeah, but the doctor gets paid for it if he/she chooses to guide their patients. Well, the problem with this whole fiasco is nobody knows what is in the existent/non-existent bill and whatever Obama has said/done so far is not helpful. See his interview below. See his response about amputation and doctors and his USPS analogy, the list goes on and on. You have the nerve to come here and challenge us. Go read the fucking bill, if there is one. While you’re at it read about the all the behind the scenes deals he has made with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243212 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:22:54 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243212 Link to the interview: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03Obama-t.html Link to the interview:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/magazine/03Obama-t.html

]]> By: pm317 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30119/where-is-the-compassion/#comment-1243210 pm317 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:21:46 +0000 http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30119#comment-1243210 Comment by HARP | 2009-08-13 11:53:16 <blockquote>Ha! Folks who really want to stick it to Obama and sow hysteria about “death panels” will extract this from Obama’s same fateful interview with David Leonhardt of the Times: THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right? I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here. DAVID LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it? THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, “ethicists”. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now. </blockquote> http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/08/there-he-goes-again.html Comment by HARP | 2009-08-13 11:53:16

Ha! Folks who really want to stick it to Obama and sow hysteria about “death panels” will extract this from Obama’s same fateful interview with David Leonhardt of the Times:

THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?

I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

DAVID LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, “ethicists”. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/08/there-he-goes-again.html

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