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	<title>Comments on: WHAT &#8220;Cash For Clunkers&#8221;?</title>
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		<title>By: Karma</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1247478</link>
		<dc:creator>Karma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1247478</guid>
		<description>I remember that slogan as well and agree it&#039;s a huge waste of resources on so many levels.  The manpower and energy consumed to produce it the first time should guarantee it usefulness to most environmentalists.    

The loss of wealth to the entire US system seems a bizarre fix as well.  As others have noted previously, besides junk yards, charities, parts stores, and mechanics which will have less to work with.  Why couldn&#039;t the car dealerships kept the cars whole and sold them to the used car dealers?  The 3 billion dollar price tag is still there, but other industries still get to participate.   

Maybe it is stacking the deck in their future for more car sales with the loss of these. 

Sorry for posting this late....had it written but shut down the computer when hubby came home.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember that slogan as well and agree it&#8217;s a huge waste of resources on so many levels.  The manpower and energy consumed to produce it the first time should guarantee it usefulness to most environmentalists.    </p>
<p>The loss of wealth to the entire US system seems a bizarre fix as well.  As others have noted previously, besides junk yards, charities, parts stores, and mechanics which will have less to work with.  Why couldn&#8217;t the car dealerships kept the cars whole and sold them to the used car dealers?  The 3 billion dollar price tag is still there, but other industries still get to participate.   </p>
<p>Maybe it is stacking the deck in their future for more car sales with the loss of these. </p>
<p>Sorry for posting this late&#8230;.had it written but shut down the computer when hubby came home.  <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246684</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246684</guid>
		<description>I think a different perspective should be used towards this program.  Automotive Dealers aren&#039;t happy they aren&#039;t getting paid??? The truth is this isn&#039;t the gravy train they are used to and they are going to spin it to make them look like a victim.  They are not hurting for money....let&#039;s be real this is Government debt.  They would have no problem having a bank offer a line of credit which is secured by government debt.  There are plenty of industries which have to wait for payment far longer than the two months this program has been in effect.  Look at their sales numbers since the program rolled out and compare them to prior numbers when the program wasn&#039;t around.  The volume has increased so much and they still want to claim they are the victim.  I would also like to commend how the government handled this sucessful program.  It accomplished exactly what its goals were....put millions of Americans in more fuel efficient and it spurred significant economic activity.  I must also say how well a job was done with the events during the recent week.  While the program was hugely successful it hasn&#039;t operated perfectly regarding all facets (e.g. the dealerships being reimbursed sooner than they currently are).  After recognizing the two main goals were accomplished they decided to stop the program rather than letting the short-falls continue to grow and become insurmountable.  That is called PROGRESS.  A final note to the dealers who claim to be the victims: If your complaint now is &quot;where is my money?&quot; what are you going to say next month when there are a big fat zero buyers like it was prior to this program?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a different perspective should be used towards this program.  Automotive Dealers aren&#8217;t happy they aren&#8217;t getting paid??? The truth is this isn&#8217;t the gravy train they are used to and they are going to spin it to make them look like a victim.  They are not hurting for money&#8230;.let&#8217;s be real this is Government debt.  They would have no problem having a bank offer a line of credit which is secured by government debt.  There are plenty of industries which have to wait for payment far longer than the two months this program has been in effect.  Look at their sales numbers since the program rolled out and compare them to prior numbers when the program wasn&#8217;t around.  The volume has increased so much and they still want to claim they are the victim.  I would also like to commend how the government handled this sucessful program.  It accomplished exactly what its goals were&#8230;.put millions of Americans in more fuel efficient and it spurred significant economic activity.  I must also say how well a job was done with the events during the recent week.  While the program was hugely successful it hasn&#8217;t operated perfectly regarding all facets (e.g. the dealerships being reimbursed sooner than they currently are).  After recognizing the two main goals were accomplished they decided to stop the program rather than letting the short-falls continue to grow and become insurmountable.  That is called PROGRESS.  A final note to the dealers who claim to be the victims: If your complaint now is &#8220;where is my money?&#8221; what are you going to say next month when there are a big fat zero buyers like it was prior to this program?</p>
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		<title>By: Texas Playwright</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246647</link>
		<dc:creator>Texas Playwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246647</guid>
		<description>Thanks for another great post, R3Amy.  I had a 1985 Peugeot that finally had no more major replacement parts from any maker in early 2008.  We had the AirCheck Texas program, where old, POLLUTING cars which failed the emissions test even if they passed the safety test(lights, brakes, wipers, etc.)would be turned in, engine blocks bored, for a $3,000 voucher for a newer car.  Parts could be sold--I had great tires, battery, alternator, etc.--but the engine--in this case 23 years old--had to be bored.  A good junk yard mechanic or chop shop could salvage lots of usable stuff off that old car.  The point was OLD/POLLUTING cars that failed emissions testing were to be destroyed.  The one sticking point was the car had to be driveable--driving it to the new dealer, who would then drive it to a loading truck for salvage.  One could also sell the car straight to a salvage yard and have the salvage owner sign an affidavit promising to destroy the engine while being welcome to sell all the parts.  There was some paperwork involved--just a few pages, and very clear instructions.  

My mechanic was a European raised Peugeot garage owner who gave me very good service and reduced prices all along when my income was low.  That&#039;s the only reason I had a foreign car--I bought it cheap and could make payments on repairs.  I had an 18-year business relationship with that mechanic, a true gentleman.  

So, the government, in this case the great state of Texas, and invidual business owners like my mechanic, &quot;cooperated&quot; to keep me driving to work in an area still needing way more mass transportation.  This program was only available in the polluting counties that encompassed Dallas-Ft. Worth, Houston-Galveston and San Antonio, I believe.  Well organized, well managed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for another great post, R3Amy.  I had a 1985 Peugeot that finally had no more major replacement parts from any maker in early 2008.  We had the AirCheck Texas program, where old, POLLUTING cars which failed the emissions test even if they passed the safety test(lights, brakes, wipers, etc.)would be turned in, engine blocks bored, for a $3,000 voucher for a newer car.  Parts could be sold&#8211;I had great tires, battery, alternator, etc.&#8211;but the engine&#8211;in this case 23 years old&#8211;had to be bored.  A good junk yard mechanic or chop shop could salvage lots of usable stuff off that old car.  The point was OLD/POLLUTING cars that failed emissions testing were to be destroyed.  The one sticking point was the car had to be driveable&#8211;driving it to the new dealer, who would then drive it to a loading truck for salvage.  One could also sell the car straight to a salvage yard and have the salvage owner sign an affidavit promising to destroy the engine while being welcome to sell all the parts.  There was some paperwork involved&#8211;just a few pages, and very clear instructions.  </p>
<p>My mechanic was a European raised Peugeot garage owner who gave me very good service and reduced prices all along when my income was low.  That&#8217;s the only reason I had a foreign car&#8211;I bought it cheap and could make payments on repairs.  I had an 18-year business relationship with that mechanic, a true gentleman.  </p>
<p>So, the government, in this case the great state of Texas, and invidual business owners like my mechanic, &#8220;cooperated&#8221; to keep me driving to work in an area still needing way more mass transportation.  This program was only available in the polluting counties that encompassed Dallas-Ft. Worth, Houston-Galveston and San Antonio, I believe.  Well organized, well managed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246497</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246497</guid>
		<description>This far left wing is the mirror image of the neo-cons and what they did to the Repubs in 2000.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This far left wing is the mirror image of the neo-cons and what they did to the Repubs in 2000.</p>
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		<title>By: Athena the Warrior</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246496</link>
		<dc:creator>Athena the Warrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246496</guid>
		<description>Even a chop shop would scream bloody murder at this waste of vehicle.  The breakup value of the parts alone are worth more than the CfC scam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even a chop shop would scream bloody murder at this waste of vehicle.  The breakup value of the parts alone are worth more than the CfC scam.</p>
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		<title>By: firlight2012</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246491</link>
		<dc:creator>firlight2012</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246491</guid>
		<description>I had the timing belt changed on my car today at a HONDA dealership in the Seattle, WA area.

The shuttle driver there said the dealer had stopped participating in the Cash-for-Clunkers program because they hadn&#039;t been reimbursed by the goverment for cars already sold and it was causing cash flow problems.  They had sold 400 cars in the program and were owed about $4000 each for about $1.6 million total.

He also said the number of cars they sold was similar to what they were doing last year or the year before...but not better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had the timing belt changed on my car today at a HONDA dealership in the Seattle, WA area.</p>
<p>The shuttle driver there said the dealer had stopped participating in the Cash-for-Clunkers program because they hadn&#8217;t been reimbursed by the goverment for cars already sold and it was causing cash flow problems.  They had sold 400 cars in the program and were owed about $4000 each for about $1.6 million total.</p>
<p>He also said the number of cars they sold was similar to what they were doing last year or the year before&#8230;but not better.</p>
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		<title>By: hokma</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246480</link>
		<dc:creator>hokma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 01:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246480</guid>
		<description>I fully agree.

I think this far left wing of the party shares the same beliefs as Obama and have marginalized the balance of the party, much the same way Obama has tried to marginalize Hillary.

For me the best scenario would be for Obama&#039;s number to continue to plummet, the Dems lose big in the 2010 elections, and then Hillary resigns to pursue a run against Obama for the nomination.

Of course Obama will start to use the race card as his excuse the same way Governor Patterson used it today with calls for him to step aside int he next election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully agree.</p>
<p>I think this far left wing of the party shares the same beliefs as Obama and have marginalized the balance of the party, much the same way Obama has tried to marginalize Hillary.</p>
<p>For me the best scenario would be for Obama&#8217;s number to continue to plummet, the Dems lose big in the 2010 elections, and then Hillary resigns to pursue a run against Obama for the nomination.</p>
<p>Of course Obama will start to use the race card as his excuse the same way Governor Patterson used it today with calls for him to step aside int he next election.</p>
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		<title>By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246472</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246472</guid>
		<description>Candymarl, great point.  I meant to say something abt that earlier.  It is VERY hard for disabled people to get Medicare.  My cousin tried unsuccessfully for a number of years to obtain it - she had Lupus.  Her sister kindly picked up all of her medical expenses in the interim while she was fighting for Medicare.

Her sister was hoping that, after my cousin died from complications of Lupus, that maybe THEN they would acknowledge how bad it was, and reimburse her costs.

I know other people who have tried, unsuccessfully, to get Medicare, even though they were deserving.  So, again, it isn&#039;t a slam dunk program, nor is it a perfect program.

But yeah - I don&#039;t think anyone has been advocating it be abolished anyway...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Candymarl, great point.  I meant to say something abt that earlier.  It is VERY hard for disabled people to get Medicare.  My cousin tried unsuccessfully for a number of years to obtain it &#8211; she had Lupus.  Her sister kindly picked up all of her medical expenses in the interim while she was fighting for Medicare.</p>
<p>Her sister was hoping that, after my cousin died from complications of Lupus, that maybe THEN they would acknowledge how bad it was, and reimburse her costs.</p>
<p>I know other people who have tried, unsuccessfully, to get Medicare, even though they were deserving.  So, again, it isn&#8217;t a slam dunk program, nor is it a perfect program.</p>
<p>But yeah &#8211; I don&#8217;t think anyone has been advocating it be abolished anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246467</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246467</guid>
		<description>It truly is a huge waste - disabling the engine block and the whole thing.  What a waste of resources, isn&#039;t it?  

I&#039;ve been an environmentalist for many years, and this just sickens me.  People could USE those parts, they could be RECYCLED, for crying out loud (remember the saying, &quot;Reduce, Reuse, Recycle&quot;?  evidently, the Dems and Obama haven&#039;t.).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It truly is a huge waste &#8211; disabling the engine block and the whole thing.  What a waste of resources, isn&#8217;t it?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been an environmentalist for many years, and this just sickens me.  People could USE those parts, they could be RECYCLED, for crying out loud (remember the saying, &#8220;Reduce, Reuse, Recycle&#8221;?  evidently, the Dems and Obama haven&#8217;t.).</p>
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		<title>By: Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246462</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246462</guid>
		<description>Well said, Ani - I couldn&#039;t agree more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Ani &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t agree more!</p>
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		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246452</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246452</guid>
		<description>That is why Pelosi et al kicked the ladder out from under Hillary -- I&#039;ll bet you dollars to doughnuts she didn&#039;t want this bunch of boobs minding the mint and she wouldn&#039;t have outsourced this much control to Pelosi/Reid/Dodd/Frank. The &quot;leadership&quot; of Obama and those currently in charge does not represent the Democratic Party to me.  Not the Clinton wing of it anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is why Pelosi et al kicked the ladder out from under Hillary &#8212; I&#8217;ll bet you dollars to doughnuts she didn&#8217;t want this bunch of boobs minding the mint and she wouldn&#8217;t have outsourced this much control to Pelosi/Reid/Dodd/Frank. The &#8220;leadership&#8221; of Obama and those currently in charge does not represent the Democratic Party to me.  Not the Clinton wing of it anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonic Ninja Kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246445</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonic Ninja Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246445</guid>
		<description>...and the first commenter mentions the broken window fallacy--a great little story for everyone to read these days:  http://mises.org/story/3000  (It also debunks the pernicious idea that wars boost economies.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and the first commenter mentions the broken window fallacy&#8211;a great little story for everyone to read these days:  <a href="http://mises.org/story/3000" rel="nofollow">http://mises.org/story/3000</a>  (It also debunks the pernicious idea that wars boost economies.)</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246431</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:02:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246431</guid>
		<description>&quot;there isn’t the same effect, because the dealerships are still making these high gas mileage vehicles&quot;

should be &quot;low gas mileage vehicles&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;there isn’t the same effect, because the dealerships are still making these high gas mileage vehicles&#8221;</p>
<p>should be &#8220;low gas mileage vehicles&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246430</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246430</guid>
		<description>They showed a clip on the news of some of them bring crushed, and they&#039;re crushing tires and all.  A lot of people rely on used tires, so this is another waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They showed a clip on the news of some of them bring crushed, and they&#8217;re crushing tires and all.  A lot of people rely on used tires, so this is another waste.</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/30848/what-cash-for-clunkers/#comment-1246429</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=30848#comment-1246429</guid>
		<description>I agree, it&#039;s a waste. Plus, I think &quot;clunkers&quot; is a misnomer, as I believe the main qualification is the gas mileage the vehicle gets.  I understand there are people trading in perfectly drivable SUVs and trucks, because their low gas mileage makes them eligible.  So not only does this deprive others from being able to buy them as a used vehicle, it&#039;s not really affecting the pollution problem:

There have been programs over the years (mabe on the state level) where if a car was considered a gross polluter, they would give the owner extra money to turn it in, more than they would get from just selling it to the junkyard.  These were usually pretty old cars, which of course were no longer being made.  So this type of program definitely worked to get a polluter off the road (these were &quot;clunkers&quot;, for sure!).  With the SUVs and trucks being turned in today there isn&#039;t the same effect, because the dealerships are still making these high gas mileage vehicles - so what is really the point in crushing some, when they&#039;re still making more?

Of course, some of the vehicles being turned in now are older vehicles.  The owners probably aren&#039;t used to making payments, so I hope this doesn&#039;t turn into the same fiasco as the ACORN housing push, where people were allowed to buy homes they couldn&#039;t really afford!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, it&#8217;s a waste. Plus, I think &#8220;clunkers&#8221; is a misnomer, as I believe the main qualification is the gas mileage the vehicle gets.  I understand there are people trading in perfectly drivable SUVs and trucks, because their low gas mileage makes them eligible.  So not only does this deprive others from being able to buy them as a used vehicle, it&#8217;s not really affecting the pollution problem:</p>
<p>There have been programs over the years (mabe on the state level) where if a car was considered a gross polluter, they would give the owner extra money to turn it in, more than they would get from just selling it to the junkyard.  These were usually pretty old cars, which of course were no longer being made.  So this type of program definitely worked to get a polluter off the road (these were &#8220;clunkers&#8221;, for sure!).  With the SUVs and trucks being turned in today there isn&#8217;t the same effect, because the dealerships are still making these high gas mileage vehicles &#8211; so what is really the point in crushing some, when they&#8217;re still making more?</p>
<p>Of course, some of the vehicles being turned in now are older vehicles.  The owners probably aren&#8217;t used to making payments, so I hope this doesn&#8217;t turn into the same fiasco as the ACORN housing push, where people were allowed to buy homes they couldn&#8217;t really afford!</p>
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