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“Success” Breeds More Clunkers – OPEN THREAD

Taxpayers get your wallets out. It seems the government was so pleased with the success of their Cash-for-Clunker car program that it rushed through a $300 million spin off “Cash for Refrigerators” before leaving for the August recess. So just in case you missed out on the “free” Cash-for-Clunkers money, you can now get in on a little rebate from the taxpayers and help subsidize the manufacturers and retailers of household appliances by purchasing an Energy Star refrigerator, washing machine, and dishwasher, furnace or air-conditioning system.

From Business Week:

Beginning late this fall, the federal program will authorize rebates of roughly $50 to $200 for purchases of high-efficiency appliances that bear the Energy Star seal. The money is part of the broader economic stimulus bill passed earlier this year. Program details—such as which appliances are covered, the exact size of the rebates, and how they get processed—will vary according to each state’s proposals, and the Energy Dept. has set a deadline of Oct. 15 for states to file formal applications to participate. Washington expects to award the bulk of the money by the end of November.

Forget about the unemployment numbers and home foreclosure numbers and the forecasts for more of the same. Investing in “big ticket” appliances will save you money and save our environment.

Jill Notini, spokeswoman for the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers told CNBC.com that she is hopeful the program will spur sales, which are down about 15 percent from last year.

The organization also is touting the savings that can come from using more efficient appliances, reports CNBC.com. Notini said in the article that by replacing an eight-year-old washing machine with an energy-efficient one, consumers can typically save 5,000 gallons of water and 600 kilowatt hours of electricity per year, which is about $78 in annual savings.

And even if you can easily afford the purchase, we the taxpayers will help you upgrade to Energy Star appliances. The environment is that important.

From Popsci.com:

Energy Star is much less cut-and-dried [than miles per gallon]. First of all, the joint program between the Department of Energy and the Environmental Protection Agency is a voluntary one. Secondly, it’s not a graded scale — something is either Energy Star-compliant or it isn’t. Third, it’s purposefully not overly demanding. According to Karen Schneider of the EPA, the program’s bar is set exactly at the point where energy efficiency meets affordability. An Energy Star refrigerator is going to be more expensive than its non-Energy Star counterpart, but Energy Star wants you to be able to recoup that extra cost in five years with money saved on utility bills. “We don’t want to make a clothes washer so green that no one can afford to buy it,” Schneider says.

Then, there’s all that Energy Star doesn’t consider. …it does not consider the environmental impact of manufacturing processes, materials used, or what happens to a product at the end of its lifespan. Nor is there any Energy Star-equivalent government program that does. … (According to Schneider, this is something Energy Star is starting to discuss internally.)

So maybe there isn’t a compelling need on the part of homeowners for newer appliances and maybe the environmental impact may not be what it’s cracked up to be, but at least the industry will be happy.

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Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

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More from Business Week:

Not surprisingly, appliance makers (and their investors) cheered the upcoming government handout. “Whatever gets the consumer back in the marketplace is good for us,” says J.B. Hoyt, director of government relations at Whirlpool, where shares are up 40% since the program was disclosed on July 14. Still, Hoyt allows that “our business has a long way to go in terms of recovery.” Electrolux Chief Executive Hans Straberg, meanwhile, told investors in July he doesn’t expect the market to improve “in the near future.” Electrolux says it is readying “aggressive” marketing programs that will amplify the rebates’ appeal, but is waiting for state plans before providing specifics. Over the next month, appliance makers will lobby state energy commissions to provide the highest possible rebates. “Twenty-five dollars does not get consumers’ attention on a $500 purchase,” Hoyt says.

Okay. Maybe happy is too strong a word. No doubt the home appliance manufacturers and retailers are feeling a little under-stimulated compared to the auto industry’s $3 billion windfall. Still, I have faith in corporate and industry power to work out a better deal before it is all over. And as a taxpayer, I know I’ll sleep better at night knowing someone got a good deal. After all it’s the American way.

So what industry do you think our government and our tax dollars should subsidize next?

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Related posts:

The End of Cash for Clunkers Leaves the Obama Administration With Its “Unders” Showing

  • candymarl

    Testing.

  • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

    Let’s see–what do I need?

    Cash for Clunker Cross Training Shoes
    Cash for Clunker Kids’ School Supplies
    Cash for Clunker Dog Chew Toys
    Cash for Clunker Hair Coloring and Styling (lol!)

    They can all be made from environmentally friendly materials, so this will help justify the exchange. It works for me!

    I am actually going to get a new dishwasher. Mine is on the brink, and I may as well get back a small percentage of what I’m putting into the system, eh?

    This whole ‘cash for whatever’ stuff should spur people to think about the two types of spending: consumptive and productive. Briefly, consumptive spending is the type that produces nothing (or not much) at the end–you use the product up and it has not enabled you to do much more than you would have done without it.

    Productive spending is that which brings more wealth at the end. Hiring a new worker for your business or investing in a machine that will increase your productivity are both productive.

    Most government spending is consumptive and therefore wasteful. It is money that was taken from producers who otherwise would have a) done their own consumptive spending, b) done some productive spending, or c) saved it, thereby increasing bank reserves which would have made money available for someone else who could have borrowed it for their own productive spending.

    Options “b” and “c” are much better for our economy in the long run. Option “a” makes the spending dollar for dollar a wash, but at least the spending is done according to specific market demands as opposed to the government spending which is based on our rulers’ whims (ie–lobbyists influences and/or our rulers’ attempts to buy votes in their own districts). It is clear–the less government is involved in spending decisions, the better off we will all be.

    The Clunker programs are huge clunkers.

    • Ellen D

      I am actually going to get a new dishwasher. Mine is on the brink, and I may as well get back a small percentage of what I’m putting into the system, eh?

      I’m remodeling my kitchen – no contractor, just hubbie and me, so I was REALLY UNHAPPY to hear of this program.

      Before the announcement, the appliances were really low. Now they are starting to rise in price in anticipation of the rebate. This isn’t going to help us consumers at all.

  • candymarl

    One more time. I save up if I want newer more energy efficient appliances. If the government subsidizes every industry then that is a form of socialism.

    If you’ve lost your job or home this program does you no good. Or if you’re on shaky financial ground or in credit card debt you’ve just created another bill.

  • HARP

    I`ll let this speak for it`s self:

    New– Pole Dance Doll For Little Girls & Tassle Tees For Tots

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/08/new-nipple-tassel-t-shirt-for-toddlers.html

  • Docelder

    Consume…Spend… more importantly… Believe. If we aren’t the mindless sheep the left thinks we are then they are going to be caught looking like the fool. But then again… “Believe” won the presidency last time around. Those who use their own brains to think about things before they become a part of our conscious mind can look forward to being called redneck, teabagger, holocaust denier and racist by those whose brains are permanently held in a pickle jar at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

  • Diana L. C.

    Well, heck–I just got from XCEL, our electric company here, a $200 rebate for adding insulation to the walls of my son’s small home and a $130 rebate, too, for installing an HE swamp cooler. Can I double dip and get one from the government, too?

    Where does this stop?

    • Arabella Trefoil

      Ha ha! I’m 57 and I just went back to school. I can get a senior citizen discount (show drivers license) AND a student discount (show student ID) at some places.

  • http://shhhithitsthefan.wordpress.com/ ithitsthefan

    This is yet again another example of elitism. Families all over America are struggling to get by day to day and Big Brother Government is now promising that if they find some way to spend what little resources they have managed to save he will give then $50 to $200 as a rebate. Does everyone feel more secure already?

    On another subject entirely, I took a look at the release of the CIA memos on torture and have commented upon them.

    Torturing Morality

  • tzada

    OT but just a little Guess this car dealorship is less than pleased with at least one clunker.

    BORN IN THE USA?
    Multi-state car dealer plans birth-certificate billboards
    Huge signs by interstate will be seen by 300,000 per day in Denver alone

    A top-rated talk radio host in Denver, Colo., has received some good news about his hopes to erect “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” billboards in front of hundreds of thousands of drivers a day when a local businessman heard his radio show and agreed to donate the sign space.

    Now, WND has learned, that businessman is planning on donating signage in multiple states to get the message out that Barack Obama has yet to prove his constitutional eligibility to serve as president.

    As WND reported, Peter Boyles, who hosts the top-rated morning program on Denver’s KHOW-AM, has been fascinated with the president’s refusal to release his long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate to verify his qualification to serve as commander in chief and has dedicated many hours of his program in recent weeks to discussion of all sides of the eligibility issue, much of which has been based on WorldNetDaily’s extensive coverage.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108289

  • Ginger

    The corporations that sell the items often give out better rebates (and often throw in free delivery)rather than a measly 50 – 200 bucks. Big woo.

  • tzada

    They have the ACLU we need lawyers too maybe the The United States Justice Foundation can be the one. It appears the usual suspects may try and rewrite the Constitution. We all know what will happen if they succeed,
    BARACK OBAMA AND HIS ALLIES ARE TRYING
    TO CHANGE THE U.S. CONSTITUTION

    The United States Justice Foundation is launching a major campaign to STOP a “Con Con” from taking place — WE MUST CREATE a tremendous outpouring of publicity and public scrutiny to be given to this danger, so that Barack Obama and his radical liberal allies can’t “sneak this past us” without anyone noticing, until it’s too late. Right now, our staff is conducting legal and historical research, and preparing legal opinions, to submit to every state legislature, if necessary, and we’ll be offering to represent any state, or state legislator, in fighting the Con-Con based on those documents.

    We’re also going to be leading a grassroots effort to attack this issue at both the state and federal levels: At the state level, leading the charge in every state to either NOT VOTE for a “Con Con” (if they haven’t voted yet) or to RESCIND their past vote in favor (if they have). And, at the federal level, we’ll be mobilizing citizens across the country to contact their Representatives and Senators to DEMAND that they come out, NOW, and announce their support for a state’s right to rescind, and that they won’t support a call for a “Con-Con.” In addition, we’ll be calling on the Attorney General of the United States, and the Attorney General of each and every State that has passed a “Con-Con” resolution, to issue an official Opinion on the legality of rescission.

    THIS DANGER IS REAL. The Constitutional Convention of 1787 was called for the exclusive purpose of amending the Articles of Confederation. Once the Founding Fathers assembled in Philadelphia, however, they threw out the Articles of Confederation and wrote an entirely new Constitution, and even changed the ratification procedure so they could get it adopted more easily. The 1787 Convention is the only precedent we have for a national Constitutional Convention.

    There’s no guarantee that all of the changes to our Constitution passed at a Constitutional Convention would need to be ratified by 34 states this time — if a “Con Con” can change our structure of government as defined in Articles I, II, and III, of the Constitution, then it can also change the Article V requirement that three-fourths of the states are needed to ratify any changes. The Convention of 1787 reduced the number of states required to ratify a change from 100% of the states to 75%, and a Convention today could “follow their example” and reduce it further, to 66%, or 60%, or even 51%!
    President Barack Obama has already expressed his belief that the U.S. Constitution needs to be interpreted in the context of current affairs and events. Can you imagine what he and his supporters would DO to that document if given the chance to re-write it completely? Our Bill of Rights could disappear overnight!

    In fact, all the way back in 2006, Obama already had his lawyers researching how someone could get around the eligibility requirements to serve as U.S. President — these people simply don’t CARE about whether we preserve the supreme law of the land!

    http://usjf.net/ Home page
    http://www.wnd.com/ World Net Daily sent me the above information in an email

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    I spoke to someone yesterday who actually knows a paid Obama blogger. Apparently this guy also trolls blogs to post fake cheerleading comments on the latest teen pop stars as well.

    • Arabella Trefoil

      Make sense – same skill set, same kinds of audiences.

  • Sassy

    I’m in the market for a new “Subsidy Sensor”!
    Mine exploded when the deficit passed a trillion!

  • Patience

    The Cash for Clunkers (cars) bothered me because I’m an advocate of better public transit and so far this administration has been a disappointment in that regard.

    Now it’s cash for household appliances. Where will it end?

    Having said that, I can understand the basic premise — recessions are defined in part by a pull-back of consumer spending. These programs are intended to spur consumer spending. What I don’t like about it though is that government rather than than consumers is picking winners. Keynesians rationalize this though by suggesting that something like stimulus checks for all don’t always succeed in spurring enough consumer spending, as some recipients will either save the money or use it to pay down existing debt. And of course tax relief for all is out of the question as a possible solution, as far as they’re concerned.

    It seems to elude advocates of big-spending government that people and employers are retrenching to some extent right now BECAUSE of profligate government spending — at best we’re in fear and waiting to be hit with higher income taxes, higher prices and onerous regulations that proposed policies and programs will cause. At worst, we’re in fear of personal bankruptcy and business failures.

  • donjo

    Why didn’t the govt. simply hand out grants of $20,000 or so to all taxpayers instead of bailing out the big bucks bankers? Now, that would have been a real stimulus. Think of all the cars that would have been purchased, homes updated, clothes purchased, new HD tv’s and appliances installed, credit cards and student loas paid off and so on and on. Instead they go at it in this roundabout fashion, going through several steps to achieve a modicum of stimulus. Typical.

    • candymarl

      Dear Donjo,

      You are making sense. Therefore you will be indefinitely detained until We determine you are not part of a secret red neck racist white Al Queda terrorist cell.

      Your Friend,

      The US Government.

    • Docelder

      that would have been a real stimulus

      Yes, but it would also have been a waste of a perfectly orchestrated crisis. The big companies and big banks are gobbling up cheap assets with money borrowed from our children and grand children. There never was a stimulus. If we put free men one one end of a scale and livestock at the other… we are closer to the livestock end of the scale than we would like to believe. The truth might hurt, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

    • http://noquarter foxyladi14

      because that makes sense,our gov.doesnt do good sense

    • Patience

      Or how about a tax holiday if the big spenders are loathe to cut tax rates? Paul Krugman’s telling us not to worry about the deficit, so why not make it bigger by suspending federal taxes for a period of time? We’ll never read a proposal like that from statists like him — they’re afraid people will like it too much. THEY want to decide how the money’s spent.

  • eleana

    MEDICAL FACISM….Think this couldn’t happen here in the USA? think again, it is happening NOW. Massachusetts is leading the way with the passage of a new bill, the “Pandemic Response Bill” 2028, reportedly just passed by the MA state Senate and now awaiting approval in the House. This bill suspends virtually all Constitutional rights of Massachusetts citizens and forces anyone “suspected” of being infected to submit to interrogations, “decontaminations” and vaccines.

    It’s also sets fines up to $1,000 per day for anyone who refuses to submit to quarantines, vaccinations, decontamination efforts or to follow any other verbal order by virtually any state-licensed law enforcement or medical personnel. Is this one of the reasons why the National Guard advertised(July) for “Internment/Resettlement Camp Specialists”?
    http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/186/st02/st02028.htm…http://www.naturalnews.com/026934_health_public_health_quarantine.html

  • Patience

    Since this is an open thread, I’m posting this link (hope it works) to a story about MSNBC’s Morning Joe’s suspicion that the Obama administration signed off on releasing the Lockerbie terrorist to Libya:

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2009/08/31/scarborough-obama-admin-must-have-signed-lockerbie-terrorist-relea

  • tango

    You know, this just pisses me off. I had no need for a new car since I already bought myself a fuel efficient car and have since paid if off without assistance from the government. I also bought all new applicances with my own money when I remodeled my kitchen two years ago so no help from the government there. Oops, my water heater started leaking 6 months ago so I bought a new energy star rated one with my own money from Home Depot. Nope, didn’t need government help there either. And a year and a half ago? I decided to replace my home central A/C unit which worked but not as well as it could for something much more efficient. That cost me thousands of dollars and geez, no financial help from the government for that purchase either.

    I don’t qualify as a first time home buyer so can’t take advantage of the $8000 tax credit the government is pushing. Luckily I am also able to make my monthly mortgage payment so am not able to participate in the government home refinancing progrm. I don’t collect TANF, food stamps, Medicare or Medicaid and didn’t even take free bottled water that was being passed out after Hurricane Ike came through and we lost electricity for 10 days. I was fully stocked up and prepared with food, water, generators and fuel to run them. Then when a tree fell on the roof of my house due to the hurricane, I paid the tree cutter to remove it with my own money figuring I’d get remibursed from my insurance company later so didn’t ask FEMA for a penny. So I don’t need a home loan or refinancing, no new car, no new applicances either. But I do get the pleasure (snerk) of knowing the taxes I pay will allow others to buy or have what I paid for myself. No wonder the self-sufficient are irked.

    Do you think those who participate in the rebate for refrigerators program will have to pay double taxes like those who bought with the cash for clunkers program?

    • Ferd Berfle

      Luckily I am also able to make my monthly mortgage payment so am not able to participate in the government home refinancing progrm.

      Yeah, me, too. If I had gone in way over my head purchasing one of those unsightly McMansions, I would more than likely be eligible. But no, I chose to be a responsible adult and purchase a lovely home in a Historical area that only needed some sweat, a little TLC, and 400′ of fence. I am still miffed that the bozos who were in way over their heads still get to keep their monstrosities on our collective dime. I don’t like Welfare in any of its forms, for corporations, for the shiftless or lazy, or for the terminally stupid. The do-gooders have eliminated the cause-and-effect lesson that ought to be learned by everyone.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Fiddlesticks. Lost another. I am left to wonder if those who responsible for the programming of the Spam-monster actually have any sort of functional understanding of the English language or if they merely have passing knowledge of it through their mother language, texting, and its associated lack of character clusters of more than four or five letters. To our collective inability to make decent cars we can add anything to do with functioning automated applications.

  • tango

    Hey, I’ve been spammed. Can I have a rebate for that??? :)

    • candymarl

      Is spamming anything like spanking? (See Monty Python and The Holy Grail)

      Okay maybe I went too far.

  • Docelder

    Patrick is on now saying he will appoint an interim 60th vote. It is too important to wait for a Jan 19th special vote. Specter must be feeling rather small by now.

  • tzada

    Mercury fallout from the Cash-for-Clunkers program.

    Automakers used mercury as a component for various auto systems until 2004.
    They stopped because mercury is toxic, and it gets into stuff that we eat (the actual level of risk is in fact not relevant for this discussion).
    People get very touchy about toxic elements being thrown out with the rest of the garbage, so there’s an industry designed around collecting the mercury at the end of a car’s life. The big (only?) one of these is ELV Solutions.
    Here’s a list of the car companies that work with ELV Solutions. Notice which car company isn’t on the list?
    That’s right: GM isn’t on the list. They exited the program at the beginning of August.
    Autoblog Green calls the reason why “convoluted,” but it’s not. There are now two GMs. Good GM is the one with good assets and a chance of actually making money; Bad GM is the one with all the garbage assets, bad debts, and onerous obligations.
    Good GM does not make cars using mercury, and technically never has (its predecessor Old GM did, not it), so it sees no particular reason why it should fund mercury recovery.
    Bad GM… doesn’t make anything, or indeed do much of anything except sit there and slowly decompose; but Bad GM is the one that ELV Solutions needs to talk to about funding mercury recovery.

    more
    http://www.redstate.com/

  • tzada

    Scarborough: Obama Admin Must Have Signed Off On Lockerbie Terrorist Release

    If Joe Scarborough is right, this could be a game-changing blow to Barack Obama . . .
    On today’s Morning Joe, Scarborough left no doubt that he believes the Obama administration acquiesced to the release by the British government of Abdelbaset Al Megrahi, the convicted Lockerbie murderer and terrorist.
    Scarborough was reacting to reports suggesting that, contrary to initial claims, the release was done at the behest of Gordon Brown’s British government, and was not an independent move by Scotland
    JOE SCARBOROUGH: I’m talking about the British deal: oil for terrorists. And Chuck Todd earlier today said the White House needs to answer questions: what did the president know, when did he know it? Did the administration know about this deal? Did they go along with it?

    http://gretawire.forums.foxnews.com/topic/scarborough-obama-admin-must-have-signed-off-on-lockerbie-terrorist-release

  • Docelder

    This article in the American Thinker pulls no punches. It just seems right in so many ways. Speaking of President Obama:

    It’s not so much that he’s a phony, knows nothing about economics, is historically illiterate, and woefully small minded for the size of the task– all contributory of course. It’s that he’s not one of us. And whatever he is, his profile is fuzzy and devoid of content, like a cardboard cutout made from delaminated corrugated paper. Moreover, he doesn’t command our respect and is unable to appeal to our own common sense. His notions of right and wrong are repugnant and how things work just don’t add up. They are not existential. His descriptions of the world we live in don’t make sense and don’t correspond with our experience.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/another_failed_presidency.html

  • Tricia Spiegel

    I see what they are doing–trying again to make it seem like they give a rats ass about the average American with the boutique “show pony” programs that we end up paying for anyway.

    What a crock! Are we that stupid?

  • hokma

    How about Cash for Congressmen Clunkers – trade in the tired old unreliable Representative for a new improved version that might actually represent you – or wait for the 2010 election.

    • Diana L. C.

      I want in on that!

    • Linda Anselmi

      Excellent suggestion hokma!

      How about Cash for Congressmen Clunkers – trade in the tired old unreliable Representative for a new improved version that might actually represent you

      Now that is one program I could really get behind that!

  • tzada

    Little did we know. We, yes you and I are gonna be rich, rich i say! Because Obama declares us….

    “THE HEIRS OF, YES: BIN LADEN “

    The striking thing to remember is that this descriptor was not posted on DU or Kos or Firedoglake or some of the other fringe sites.

    This was posted on mybarackobama.com, Obama’s very own Organizing for America website.

    These are classic Alinsky tactics that we are seeing played out before us over and over and over again.

    The best, most imaginative writers in Hollywood would not be able to make this stuff up.

    Screen shots of the information in question are below the fold, you know, just in case the pages go down the memory hole or something.

    If you are an opponent to the current health care reform proposals under consideration, this is how some on the left view you:

    http://www.floppingaces.net/2009/08/31/the-heirs-of-yes-bin-laden/#more-27047

    • tzada

      I say lets heed his call only call 10 people and talk against the Death Care.

  • tzada

    Car Dealers Still Waiting On ‘Clunkers’ Cash

    Here’s the figure: $2.878 billion. That’s how much money the government owes car dealers for the “Cash for Clunkers” program.

    http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Cash.for.clunkers.2.1155470.html

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