My Problem With Teddy

I won’t miss him either. He was a disgusting and depraved man. The libtards will use this to pass the health care bill. Keep fighting back!!!!

His behavior is indeed inexplicable. Here’s an explanation my parents came up with at the time, for what it’s worth:

Another woman’s handbag was found at the site. No one has ever commented on this.

He was with a second woman in the car. Kopechne had, for some reason or other, left the party after drinking and crashed in the back seat of his car.

Second woman and Kennedy were also drunk, when they arrived in the car later.

After the crash, Kennedy saved the woman he was with from the car, then gave her a chance to escape into anonymity before he reported the accident.

He had no idea there was a second woman in the car.

Why he wouldn’t simply tell the truth in this case was inexplicable. But that’s the nature of lies. Once you begin it is hard to backtrack.

I find this more believable than that any human being would leave someone to drown.

Yes, of course, Kennedy was a liberal must have had good reasons to let her die. It was for the greater good of Ted. Rationalize away, that facts are that he was always a scoundrel.

Not denying that. I just find this explanation more plausible than that a reasonable human being would coldheartedly leave someone to die in a submerged car.

Then we have the Kennedy Compound in Palm Beach where his nephew raped a woman while Uncle Ted was there. That investigation opened a whole lotta shenanigans about the women lured there and the drinking and partying (The Au Bar, I believe was their favorite haunt there). It was so bad that the compound ended up being closed down and the Kennedy’s finally left Palm Beach, never to return, bringing much relief to the parents of women there.

I was living in Cambridge when I was invited by a friend whom I had met doing volunteer work for a D state Rep.; to attend a party at the Kennedy compound. (The campaign did not involve the Kennedy’s.) But I had already accepted a dinner invitation from my upstairs neighbors, a young married couple who had just moved in to the area to work with the Church of Christ. Now, at that time, my politic bent was generally left of the Kennedy’s, certainly much more in line with them than my new neighbors, the missionaries, whose differences were based on more than the fact, I am Jewish. But my word is my word; and besides, I knew when I wanted to leave, I would make it home safely.

Recently, I read that Teddy “asked the chauffeur for the keys to the limo”, after a day of heavy drinking. When you compound that with his entire life of boozing and using women like Kleenex, then you realize that he said or did anything that would make it appear he cared about anything other than power for himself. He used “the poor” in order to get himself elected because it was a joke to him that a rich guy could stand on a stage and have them applaud him while he was soaking them down with burdensome taxes.
If your husband, other, parent, child, or best friend was as vile as Teddy, then you would shun them! And do so without any guilt. But in DC, everyonone celebrates the devil.

“I find it disgusting that people give Ted a pass on these incidents because he suffered family tragedies.”

I think it is more about giving him a pass because he championed some liberal causes. It’s an ugly thing to confront, but there is a history of people believing that a progressive agenda must be achieved at all costs. Bill Ayers blew some people up and yet he is forgiven. Kennedy left a woman under the bridge and for many, Mary Jo simply died for the cause. As that horrendous Huffnpuff article said, “Who knows — maybe she’d feel it was worth it.”

Of course sexism and classism are all woven thru the story. Ayers family wealth helped him out and the Kennedy wealth covered a multitude of sins. And women are often viewed as simply the accepted casualties of boys being boys.

Yes to all the above, and the other thing I read from a reliable source is that in the last 15 years or so, all of Teddy’s work, all of it, has been done by his staff. Teddy showed up every now and then, made speeches written by others, did the meet and greet, and most of all, raised money.
I can’t be surprised by that; I think that’s what most of our elected reps do: live off the work of dedicated anonymous staff.
I have never thought that of Hillary, or a (very) few other elected members of congress.

Written at 0737:20

William Kennedy Smith, after being out with uncle Ted, was charged with rape. 3 other women came forward to testify about how he had raped them but they weren’t allowed to and eventually he was aquitted. Again in 2004 another woman tried to take him to court. That’s five women we know of, who came forward publicly.

I remember people defending him. Give him a break,he does such good charity work with land mines.

Alas. Most of the “family tragedies” and “family curse” are self-inflicted, after risking dangerous behaviors that harmed others. Like a rookie pilot flying in bad weather with a gimpy foot. Like “ski football,” which the family had been repeatedly warned against playing on the hills that were accessible to others. It was Ethel Kennedy, I hear, who carried the football to the top of the hill for the last fatal round. Even JFK, as I recall, waived usual security in a dangerous town.

Hillary was one of many “accepted casualties” for the cause. Hillary and her voters and women.

Ted was not the only one in the family with bad behavior. It has been prevelant behavior throughout the extended family. Adultery seems to be as common a practice among the Kennedy family (both men and women) as having a meal.

The family did not treat people on the Cape as well as was presented on TV. They truly felt that they were a level above everyone else and endowed with rights and privileges that mere mortals could not possess.

And then we have this article, if true is shocking. I had heard about Mary Jo and his drinking but this…

The KGB, Kennedy, and Carter

Edward Moore Kennedy, whose memory was endlessly praised in the mainstream media over the weekend, conspired with our Cold War enemy, the Soviet Union, against the interests of the United States Government. The effort was to thwart the national security goals being championed by the President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, as historian Paul Kengor reviews today on AT.

What is not generally known is that Kennedy collaborated with the Soviets well before Reagan was elected, and had a direct hand in crafting the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. As a result of his efforts — which appear in retrospect to have been crafted to prevent detection of his seditious activities — the FBI was prevented from accessing critical intelligence that could have warned of 9-11.

This story has been brought to light in an article, Treason and Ted Kennedy: The Story the Media Won’t Tell by Herb Romerstein, a veteran investigator for the U.S. House of Representatives. Mr. Romerstein is probably the foremost expert on subversive activities in the United States during the period in question.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/the_kgb_kennedy_and_carter.html

Second article by Paul Kengor with a pdf file of the original Russian language document and an English translation.

Kennedy and the KGB

Shortly after the announcement of Ted Kennedy’s death, I had already received several interview requests. I declined them, not wanting to be uncharitable to the man upon his death. Since then, I’ve seen the need to step up and provide some clarification.

The issue is a remarkable 1983 KGB document on Kennedy, which I published in my 2006 book, The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism (HarperCollins). The document is a May 14, 1983 memo from KGB head Victor Chebrikov to his boss, the odious Soviet General Secretary Yuri Andropov, designated with the highest classification. It concerns a confidential offer to the Soviet leadership by Senator Kennedy. The target: President Ronald Reagan.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/kgb_kennedy_the_ted_kennedy_i.html

I find the gist of Maureen Callahans article fascinating. The idea that we excuse a man who as a legislator did good towards a section of society that as a private citizen he quite often treated horribly – women.

“Perhaps, along with the hagiographic Kennedy myth, we can bury this outdated tradition of excusing the reprehensible treatment of women by the same male legislators who otherwise advocate for our rights politically. It’s degrading. It’s like making excuses for the husband who beats you up but pays the bills on time. It may be 2009, but the bulk of the talking heads who covered this funeral were older white males, and among the few women — eminent historian Doris Kearns Goodwin among them — it’s still shocking to hear them, nearly to a one, reduce Kennedy’s bad behavior to rakish abandon or poor judgement. Why shouldn’t we hold our elected male officials — especially those who so assiduously court the female vote — to a standard of personal decency in their treatment of women? Why do we still assume that this is an either/or proposition?”

I don’t care about a “second” woman at Chappaquiddick. What nonsense. It’s all right to allow one woman to drowned to protect the “reputations” of two other people? What kind of logic is that?

His actions were both despicable and criminal. I have tried without success to understand my “feminists” friends who have swooned over the Kennedy’s all these years. Camelot was a fantasy concocted by Jackie Kennedy and a pet reporter. The fact is the Kennedy men have used women abominably. From Joe to Teddy.

I shed no tears for Teddy Kennedy. Perhaps the idea of a “Royal” family ruling in Massachusetts will now finally come to an end. But probably not, after all the voters of MA would evidently rather have a liberal than a person of character. They’ve proved that every-time they returned “Teddy” to office.

Take that Eleanor Clift! http://www.newsweek.com/id/214252

————————-
Good one, Larry. I was thinking about just this yesterday that the country was too tired to go after another Kennedy and Teddy was the beneficiary of that undeserving goodwill. Yet he didn’t fully comprehend the gift he was given.

You didn’t read what I wrote, or perhaps I communicated poorly. He would have been unaware that MJK was in the car at all. I find it implausible to believe anyone but a hardened criminal would go back to a hotel for a good night’s sleep knowing someone was drowning in his car. And, of course, he was a lawyer — even drunk or in shock, I can’t believe he wouldn’t have contacted someone. It seems more credible that he thought he had subjected his female guest(s) to nothing more than an unplanned dunking, and went to sleep it off.

Again, this was a theory my (right-wing) parents concocted at the time. The passage of years makes it hard to believe that someone would not have come forward if this were the truth.

I don’t believe this story at all.

To me, it’s just another way to let him off the hook.

He had to know Mary Jo Kopechne was in that car.

These revelations about Kennedy and the USSR/KGB have my head spinning. We subscribe to a lot of newspapers and magazines and I wasn’t aware of this story until the past weekend. That he plotted with Russians during the Cold War for the purpose of improving his prospects to win the White House is a shock. What’s really scary is that he assured the KGB he was certain he could get major US media to play along with his plans:

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

wow.

I didn’t know that Ted was home at the time of the rape.

It just makes you wonder, you know?

If he can get away with killing a woman, what’s to stop him from looking the other way when another woman is getting raped by his nephew??

smh @ people who say that they are America’s Royalty. We have the whole world watching and this doesn’t look too good.

I will shed no tears for this man either.
So many grisly facts have surfaced, since his death, that I did not know.
How could people of faith and morals have sent this man to the Senate time after time?
We cannot know one’s heart, and we are all combinations of good and bad, but Kennedy’s failures in the years since do not show remorse.

But in DC, everyone celebrates the devil

- Great quote Ohio Granny!! A fellow Ohio voter!

We have this great ability to see right through bulls**t when we see it.

A horrible man. Good riddance!!

I find it implausible to believe anyone but a hardened criminal would go back to a hotel for a good night’s sleep knowing someone was drowning in his car.

- I don’t find it hard to believe at all Anna.

He wanted to protect his family’s name and, he didn’t want to ruin his political career.

He might not have been a hardened criminal before the crash, but he became one when he failed to notify the police of his actions.

I feel the same way.

Trying to pick up 16 year old girls in his limo, and it was well known by those in DC that he liked them barely legal??

Anyone else would have been run out of politics.

Kennedy supposedly loved a good joke.
Putting Obama in the White House must have really cracked the guy up!

Anna,

A long, clear outline of the events that night is provided in one of the threads below aout that incident. I suggest you click on that link and sit back for a stomach-turning account of just how depraved his actions really were. The other person’s purse is explained.

People forget their kids, dogs, and elephants all the time in locked cars. Do you think a drunk might just miss another drunk in the back seat of a car? At night? In the dark? I think it is possible and is a rational explanation.

Does any of that excuse Ted for being a sorry ass louse? No. Remember the Carter administration and everything Ted and his buddies did to help the Republicans derail everything Carter tried to do. That is another problem.

Could this be the reason that George HW Bush chose not to attend Ted’s funeral?

Exactly!

Watching George W. Bush at the funeral of Teddy Kennedy on Saturday was, to say the very least, amusing. It’s always great fun to witness the members of the vast right wing conspiracy confronted head-on with the theological flaws that are inherent in their philosophy. Watching that event with my pal, Kevin Swanwick, we both were mesmerized and just slightly overjoyed to be reminded yet again that the basic tenets of Liberalism are in perfect harmony with our Christianity – our Catholicism: feed the hungry, shelter the poor and clothe the naked. Oh, how I wish the camera would have cut to Bush’s face the moment he was confronted with the most famous line (and justly so) from the Gospel according to Matthew:

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

you obviously have not read the entire account of this episode. Kennedy went back to the party and
told his men friends of the accident and they
all went back to the site and they all knew
who was in the car. there were scratches on the
ceiling of the car where she tried to escape or
just keep her head above water. You should read
the entire account of what happened then you
will see that your story is implausible.

That article you provided the link for says Bush I felt Bush II’s attendance was enough Bush representation. Am I missing something?

Oh, okay I think I see what you’re getting at — Bush I’s history with the CIA?

As Larry said:

He engaged in criminal conduct. For much of his life Kennedy lived as a man not beholden to normal laws.

If you want more than the quotation from Callahan’s article, take this link that one of NoQuarter’s regular writers, American Girl in Italy, provided in a thread below this one. It’s a devastating account.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041204072343/www.ytedk.com/chapter1.htm

Additionally, allegedly Ted had no remorse over this event & continued to make jokes about it, according to historians.

Tom Degan

What have you been smoking? “the politics of joy as opposed to the politics of fear”…..Obama and his thugs (40 czars) are living proof that they have declared war on capitalism, free speech, and happiness….

One more thing, Kennedy’s endorsement of Senator Wee Wee was a turning point in the primary process. Obama’s true legacy is fear and intimidation to get his way at any cost. The Democrats have two standards one for themselves and the “hell” with everyone else.

That’s my suspicion. I thought that it was rather snarky & apparently most reporters thought it was snarky for the former president not to attend if he is still in good physical health. I suspected that he harbored some ill will towards Ted for something & this could be it.

oops, I just noticed this blog already had an entire post on this topic. As you were, carry on….

Well, gee, Tom, did you see the video of JFK’s granddaughter (Caroline’s daughter) flipping the bird at the media and the crowd when she was riding in the limo on the way to burying her Uncle Teddy?

Then she laughed, for all the others in that limo, and they all clapped.

Trash is trash, regardless of the money the family has, eh?

Your post suggests to me that you also do not know the history of the Catholic Church or of any Christian denomination.

I was raised as a strong Christian, and the true message of Christianity is beautiful. But the message is usually sullied by the actions of its institutions and the many people who join them.

The liberals have no right to smirk at the “vast right wing conspiracy.” I abhor the neo-cons’ behaviors as much as I abhor the behavior of the progressives, who use self-righteousness as their cover as much as the neo-cons do/did.

Kennedy’s life, to me, exemplifies in some regard the Catholic Church’s abuses during the Middle Ages which later led to the Reformation.

To oversimplify, one of the major arguments was about the question of the merits of good deeds as opposed to the need for founding one’s belief on faith and praying for God’s grace and on looking inward to find signs that you have that grace. The heavier emphasis on depending on good deeds without worrying so much for your own personal behavior led to corrupt practices, such as that, for instance, of trying to buy your dead relatives’ way out of Purgatory.

For me, it’s a constant battle. Do I have faith and God’s grace? Do I show that I do in the way I lead my life (thus, doing good deeds)?

It appears to me that Ted tended to fall totally on one side: If I do good deeds in my “professional life,” a life he felt he was owed because of his name, I can do what the heck I want in my personal life and it doesn’t matter.

I am not excusing the Bush/Cheney crowd at all. I just plain see the same hypocritical behavior in your precious progressives. So, please, try not to preach to me. I would have preferred a more righteous man personally to do the good deeds you feel have won his redemption in the eyes of God.

I must also end by saying that we humans are pretty unworthy of a God who would and probably will find a way for Ted to be welcomed into the fold. How many parents do the same for their lost, “black sheep”?

Kennedy wasn’t charged with manslaughter in the death of Mary Jo Kopechne. Maybe he should have been; he wasn’t. Saying it should have been doesn’t make it so. The facts are the facts. I’ve known them for a long time; I’m not shocked by them, still saddened by them.

The Kopechnes refused to allow an autopsy on Mary Jo’s body to determine the exact cause of death; why?There was blood evidence raising questions about the exact cause of death–so all we’re left with is the divers’ statement that she lived for 2 hours. The Kopechne’s took money from Kennedy, then never sued him in civil court, saying that they didn’t want to be thought to be after his money. The facts of the case were so obfuscated, those questions were never answered fully.

I guess Redemption is in the eye of the beholder; apparently, there were a lot of people who think he redeemed himself at least a little bit, including Republicans, thousands of people he personally helped, and political groups who appreciated his policy work. So, whether or not people give him a “pass” is up to them.

As I’ve said, I’ve never particularly been a fan of Ted Kennedy–but then, I wasn’t necessarily a fan of John F. Kennedy or Robert Kennedy either, since I don’t follow cults of any sort, including the OBOT cult. I don’t let anyone do my thinking for me.

Good points. I’m disgusted by the rank hypocrisy of everyone and everything. But, of course, black/white judgments never work either. Because human beings aren’t that simple, and complexities are a fact of life. Most of the time people learn that as they grow up.

No one is a saint; Ted Kennedy certainly isn’t. But, look–even his family loves Dick Cheney, while to me, he’s pure evil.

Who knows what lurks in the hearts of men…the shadow knows….bwahahahahahaha

Comment by Thinker | 2009-08-31 10:09:58

I find it implausible to believe anyone but a hardened criminal would go back to a hotel for a good night’s sleep knowing someone was drowning in his car.

- I don’t find it hard to believe at all Anna.

He wanted to protect his family’s name and, he didn’t want to ruin his political career.

He might not have been a hardened criminal before the crash, but he became one when he failed to notify the police of his actions.

You can find it as implausible as you want…but people do those callous actions every day.

I remember the story of a woman who hit a homeless man who became lodged in her windshield, and instead of reporting it, she parked in a garage and left him there to die?

Self-interest/preservation is what makes people do callous acts like this. In Ted’s case it was because it would’ve impacted his political career.

Politicians and actors aren’t mythical beasts who can’t be callous individuals. Heck, I would say they would be even more so because they’re surrounded by “yes” men/women and have a sense of entitlement.

The Kennedy brothers conspired with the mafia to plan a hit on Castro. They were political power players. That’s the way things are done in this country. It’s ugly. But, go ahead, be “shocked, shocked” at the little people who are left in their wake. Like the women Bill Clinton left in his wake…and the women who protected him from suffering the consequences….

Get real.

Bill Clinton was a despicable womanizer, no less than Ted Kennedy. He was accused of rape. It wasn’t wealth that got him off, it was a palace guard of people who lied for him, covered for him, and protected him. Look what he did in the Oval Office. Oh, sure no one died–are you sure? How can you know? Little people did suffer at the hands of Bill Clinton, you know.

If you’re gonna judge and condemn, then judge and condemn equally….

OK. I say uncle on this one. A lot of evidence has obviously surfaced since this version of events.

What I posted as a comment on the blog (and I encourage others to commen there too, who knows, you might wake up an Obot):

Oh puleez. Ted Kennedy was a sexist jerk who liked to have sex with teenagers. He should not be idolized. I am not Republican but a lot of conservatives this in this country are caring people who simply think that government is not the vehicle for taking care of people. They do that through charity, such as their churches starting up soup kitchens to help the homeless. The Democrats are just as corrupt as the Republicans. Get your head out of the sand.

Larry, I want to thank you for this piece. I was in utero when Chappiquiddik happened but I knew enough as a child to know that Ted Kennedy did a very “bad thing.”

It stuns me that he was a senator for so long and that people forgave him that heinous crime. I mean, hell, I would just see his picture and he always creeped me out. You can just tell he’s a sleazebag by looking at him!

But that just goes to show you the power of big money and the grip of the Kennedys on our nation.

You have to wonder if the Kennedys weren’t like some political mafia and whoever the other political mafia was had JFK and Bobby “taken out” like in a turf war.

So…bye bye Teddy, good riddance. You had a good long life, so I don’t feel sorry for you. Poor little Mary Jo never got to live to 77….

Here’s my PS to my comment:

Oh, and a big PS: If you want to talk politics of “fear,” the Democrats are doing a very good job with it…just against our own citizens right now instead of terrorists from without.

If you are a Republican, a conservative, a tea party protestor, or anyone who does not like Obama, you are automatically labeled by the left a racist, redneck, undereducated idiot, or religious nutjob.

If you show up at a town hall meeting to protest a health care bill you don’t like, you are an astroturfer, “paid opposition,” a racist, a white supremacist, violent, un-American, and out to destroy Obama (instead of having legitimate issues with the health care bill).

Don’t tell me that the Democrats are the party of light and love. They most certainly are not. They are the party now of arrogant elitists who are doing their damndest to shut down, intimidate, and ridicule the opposition. Just like you do in your article here.

Please let me make something clear: I did not like Bush. I am not a Republican. But I woke up to the Obama propaganda early on and I know he doesn’t actually give a damn about the little people. He cares about paying back his Wall Street donors and whoever else greased his palms to put him in power. Bush and Obama are two sides of the same coin, both backed by the power elite, and they’ll say whatever they think they can to the American people to manipulate them.

People were manipulated with the terrorism line, and now “progressives” like you have been manipulated with the “we Democrats are morally superior than those dumb racist Republicans” line of propaganda.

Considering I know a lot of caring and non-white conservatives, you really need to get out of the house more and meet more real people.

Got stuck in spam filter. Please help!

Yes, I’ve always had terribly mixed feeling about Bill. I will not judge Hillary for staying with him.

As a public school teacher in a high school at the time the Lewinsky affair was a non-sto soap opera in the news, try asking high school students to pay attention to current affairs. I was not a government or history teacher at the time, but of course I heard it. Nothing but smirking students bringing in articles about it.

Who knows how their ideas about morals and ethics were tainted by that episode.

Anna — I applaud you for wanting to think the best of anyone. It is awful to think a man could cold-bloodedly abandon a woman to die in his submerged car while he slept in a warm bed. But testimony from his friends disproves his attempts to extricate himself from blame.

The man was a selfish, spineless, immoral wastrel.

Reading that really did make me sick to my stomach and gave me nightmares afterward.

I always thought it is precisely the idea among the young in the age of HIV/AIDS that fellatio is not sex, that gave rise to BC’s seemingly honest disavowal, “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

If Jackie started the whole Camelot myth, I’ve wondered if, in the back of her mind, she was laughing. King Arthur’s court was brought to ruin by the sind of adultery.

Bush I was also veep to Reagan.

Those are definitely not the actions of a man trying to atone.

Only a lawyer…

Clinton also said, “there is not a sexual relationship, an improper sexual relationship or any other kind of improper relationship”[6] which he defended as truthful on August 17, 1998 hearing because of the use of the present tense, famously arguing “it depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Lewinsky

Larry — thank you for giving your opinion on what seems a contentious subject. I share your views on a man who I don’t believe was ever truly remorseful for what happened at Chappaqiddick, but instead was sorry for himself for having to deal with the repercussions.

He was a classic sociopathic personality whose actions subsequent to Mary Jo’s death revealed that he had no conscience and no intention of changing his private ways. I agree that his public face was one of contrition and public service, but he was only concerned with appealing to the voters.

Didn’t Dante have a level of hell devoted to people like EMK?

The Kopechne’s were as despicable as Kennedy.
Taking blood money for a child’s death is right down there in the septic tank.
Or maybe, they were demcong true believers and worshipped at the altar of Camelot.

‘People forget their kids, dogs, and elephants all the time in locked cars. Do you think a drunk might just miss another drunk in the back seat of a car? At night? In the dark?’

in cold waters with an undercurrent, with a head injury and just 5 years prior having suffered a broken back. But, to consider all these would not fit the anti-Kennedy agenda nor the smutty “MJK didn’t have her panties on” type of writings that appeal to those OH SO CONCERNED FOR THE LIFE OF A YOUNG WOMAN …. so rational need not apply.

Just one of the czars

Czar: ‘Spread the wealth!
Change the whole system’

Just days before his White House appointment, Van Jones, President Obama’s environmental adviser, used a forum at a major youth convention to push for what can easily be interpreted as a communist or socialist agenda.

As WND previously reported, Van Jones, special adviser for green jobs, enterprise and innovation to the White House Council on Environmental Quality, is an admitted black nationalist and radical communist.

Jones’ appointment was announced on March 10.

Two weeks before he started his White House job, however, Jones delivered the keynote address at Power Shift ’09, which was billed as the largest youth summit on climate change in history. A reported 12,000 young people were at the D.C. Convention Center for the event.

During his speech, available on YouTube, Jones threw around terms like “eco-apartheid” and “green for some,” and preached about spreading the wealth while positing a call to “change the whole system.”

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=108441

The issue seems to me to be that the Kennedys, an Irish CATHOLIC family DARED to break a glass ceiling and enter a world that belonged to the Anglo Saxon Protestants. Two paid with their lives for their audacity and the third, Ted, lived with death threats till the day he passed – was he living his life as a dead man walking after the 3 prominent assassinations…. could be a reason for his personal behavior (to whatever extent all that has been written is true).

In the end, he did redeem those 3 assassinations by endorsing and helping to get a person of African descent elected.

Are you off your rocker?

Yeah, you killed a woman by driving drunk and then failing to report an accident. But if you help a person of color get elected, ALL is absolved!

Oh, and you are never responsible for your personal actions if you happen to be a member of any minority group, even if you and your family are extremely important people with access to wealth and power.

Gimme a break!

Unfortunately, churches are now given federal monies for their “faith-based” activities. This type of funding should NOT exist, since it violates a separation of church and state. Also, churches should be taxed like other money-making enterprises, especially because they ARE involved in the political process.

“Oh, and you are never responsible for your personal actions if you happen to be a member of any minority group….”

As a member of a minority group and as someone who agrees with your sentiments about Kennedy (and BO), I am disturbed by the above statement. Why are you lumping “minority groups” with reprobate Ted? Just as minority groups don’t have the privileges and the wealth of a Kennedy, they don’t share his poor character either. Sweeping generalizations don’t make for good argumentation.

what a load of crap,ted was a murderer and i for one would have loved to see his face when he came before ST Peter to be judged for their life and mary jo was standing next to peter.im sorry nothing you do on this earth can make up for killing a innocent girl because you are a coward.

Now you have me wondering. You do have to wonder if Jackie had another agenda.

Your word is your word–that’s an important point.

I am tired of politicians who say one thing and live another.

Not to smear above board lawyers who might read this. In which case, no association to the past President is implied. But, it seems some study the law because they love it… and some study it because they see in it the potential for manipulation of the system.

The previous commenter was trying to excuse Kennedy’s behavior because he was an Irish Catholic, which was considered a “minority group” back in the day. Go re-read the original comment for the context.

And PS With Oprah being one of the richest people on the planet, and Obama in power, I don’t think we can generalize and say that members of minority groups don’t have wealth or privilege.

I was filled with rage after I finished reading it. I was also sick in my stomach. How did the man sleep for all those years? The people who sing his praise now are shameful. The people who elected him over and over again are complicit in propping this criminal. Fortunately the same fools did not get a chance to elect him president. But what chutzpah on his part to even have tried.

The enjoyment of the Chappaq. jokes is a sure sign of sociopathology. Who, in their right mind, who feels remorse for the woman’s death would enjoy jokes about the situation. it’s sick.

The man was a spoiled, rich, sociopath. We know so many of them. Hardly any kill though, thankfully.

I believe I’ve read that she did her best to keep her two children away from the Kennedy clan to protect them from acquiring many of the dysfunctional attitudes they have. I was so sorry to see Carolyn be pulled in by Ted.

Exactly!

I don’t know: did any of the feminist groups ever call him on his behavior then? I don’t know because I became disaffected with the movement long ago when it settled on the abortion issue as its major cause. I like the equal pay for equal work movement, but I do have lots of mixed feelings about abortion. I have always wanted women to make that personal choice without one pressure one way or the other.

Giving him a long pass did not help all those young women in the meantime form strong ideas about what they were worth.

He did not have a head injury; and again–read the timeline link I captured from an earlier thread. He was thinking clearly about his political future only.

Agreed.

Graywolf,

I’ve posted my comment below in a different thread about this episode. Please, do you know anything really about them? I tried to think of their reasons for not going after him.

I am a female who was a young adult at that time. We cannot judge their decision by our current standards of how to address a wrong.

Their daughter was one of six young women who attended a drunken party with six married men. If you read the timeline, there is great reason to believe she had dallied with Kennedy before the accident. In those days, the double standard was clear: boys will be boys, but girls are nothing but sluts if they have sex with a married man. Perhaps the Kopechnes simply did not want to see their daughter’s reputation torn apart in a court if they had pursued a case. And it was made clear in the reported conversations that Kennedy had with his lawyers rather than reporting the accident, that he was already trying to lie to say she was driving the car alone.

And how in the world do you think they would have been able to match the Kennedy machine and money? Give me a break.

They wanted to be left alone with their grief. That’s my assumption because I refuse to always jump to the nasty assumption.

I even posted a link of Edward Kennedy Jr remembering his father. I meant it, because he said so many good things in eulogy, important things and some important in this current Democratic state of politics. And I felt that was the one to watch out of any speakers. That did not mean I forgave him.

I even think how unfair he was given so many chances, none of which another person would have been afforded. But I did recognize that he spent his later years trying to do good work.

However, still, I did not know the very BAD behavior you so well showed. WOW. It’s like what we complained of the “born agains” or ex rel rights, that they could do anything they wanted, and then go to church to make it seem like all was absolved. No, no, mistakes are mistakes, living ones life that way is another matter. Shameful

Even that video of his press conference was so bad. I couldn’t watch him, I had to stop it. He was so fake, talking about Kopechne and when he referred to his brother that she worked for “Robert KennedY” so distant, like he didn’t even realize he was talking about his brother that was killed. ewww.

But still, sad for his children and loved ones left behind who remember the good. But they must understand how others cannot be so forgiving. No wonder everyone would first acknowledge “his mistakes”. Mmmm. He seems so different than that childhood memory of the strong and principled man. A life of them, until 1992 it seems.

oh for goodness,
please free my comment from the spam filter

Sorry–I just puked at your overblown sense of your knowledge history in your theory that the Kennedys were persecuted by all of us Anglo Saxon Protestants.

And Ted’s effort to get a HALF-black man, not even the descendant of an ex-slave, one who has lied in his autobiographies, one who lied constantly on the campaign trail, one who won’t allow you historically challenged individuals (because you’ve obviously never studied history) know his real history is another reason I won’t cannonize Ted Kennedy.

I’ve read a lot about the accident and never heard about the other purse. Her purse was left at the party, as if she expected to go back. Or maybe she picked up someone else’s. I’m pretty sure someone at the party saw them leave together. The car was seen parked at a local cemetary by an off duty cop, just as he approached it to see if it was lost, it drove off quickly. I think Teddy knew who was in the car, I don’t think he was familiar with those roads especially in the dark or with the pond, thinking the car had probably sunk or was deeper than it was. I’m pretty sure it was pretty murky water. I’m betting it never occured to him that an air pocket(as it was) could have been created in the car, long enough to keep her alive from 45 min to as much as 2 hours.

He knew she was in the car, accounts from his 2 staffers that he called after the accident and from his cousin, who he tried to talk into saying he was driving the car, would confirm he knew she was there but wanted to make up a story about her presence with him a married man in the middle of the night.

omg, click your heels 3 times Dorothy.

Well, if you just want to make up a life so you feel better….

And I guess in your eyes, it’s ok for someone to go around killing and raping women for decades because their father killed himself after rapiing 1 women. Make sense? Of course not.

It was an interesting time line Diana.

It stuck me after reading it, that it would have been easy to bring pressure to bear on the her family than him.

He would be arrested negligent homicide in most states these days.

sir if that had been you the result would have been 20yrs in state prison.so get real.

I read that the minute Jackie passed away, Bobby Kennedy Jr. got his meat hooks into John Jr. – something Jackie never wanted. It was then that J.J. started taking risks the Kennedy clan is known for and that he never took while Jackie was around.

Teddy did the politically expedient thing. No more; no less; end of story.

Joan (Teddy’s ex-wife) about writing a book, I hope she does:

“With a note of facetiousness, Joan says she will write her memoires when “I’m about ninety years old, because only then will I feel safe about writing everything truthfully. I don’t want to speak about a lot of what took place. I have to think about my children.”

Here is the link

That is one outstanding comment, Diana. Thank you for putting into eloquent words, the thoughts I had no luck at translating into text.

Another great comment.

People were manipulated with the terrorism line, and now “progressives” like you have been manipulated with the “we Democrats are morally superior than those dumb racist Republicans” line of propaganda.

We have traded one extremist president for another, with their associated mouth-breathing bots tagging along as a constant and insufferable reminder to those who actually think. There is no old boss or new boss; there is no change or new politics; there are only misused words and one boss who pulls the strings by creating yet another wedge issue or diversion which the contextually-illiterate electoral majority buys hook, line, and sinker. And when you tell this apparently incompetent majority that they made a mistake, they blame everything but themselves. They are going to get what they deserve. Unfortunately, the rest of us will get it, too.

Ok, what word did I type which placed my comment in purgatory? No matter how carefully I craft some comments and however brief I endeavor to make them, they often end up in the recycle bin. Can an administrator kindly rescue my comment from limbo?

In the no-holds-barred style of our host, LJ, allow me make a point with regard to this thread, and incur some wrath at the same time.

Please take note: I am saying this for the sake of illustration of the logical vacuity of some “defenders” of the Kennedy legacy spin that’s going on (I’d call them “enablers” rather than “defenders” but we’ll go with the former for now), not because I am advocating what follows. With caveat firmly in place, here we go:

If you follow the (supposed) logic of the spinners — that Teddy Kennedy supported some legislation and some causes that some people really like a lot so he, therefore, should get a pass on whatever he might have done and/or been as a person — then, were I a renowned scientist and physician who worked tirelessly for the poor, cured cancer and the bow-legged, and made the ozone layer behave, it would be fine if I wanted to eat a few babies on weekends (being somewhat morally corrupt and a big fan of Hannibal Lecter).

The greater good (as defined by ME and MY friends) is worth a sacrifice here and there. I hear the logic but I’m not sure it holds up when taken to it’s logical conclusion. Wait. No, I know it doesn’t. Which is, after all, the point.

Yes, I take it to an extreme. I said that already so get off me. But so do the spinners when they ridiculously, ghoulishly, suggest that Mary Jo herself would probably have slit her own throat if she knew it would have bestowed upon a grateful nation the monumental legislative achievements (what were they, again, precisely) of Teddy the Younger.

So there.

And, while I’m at it, a bone to pick that seems to have been lost in all this:

You know who should be walking with a shroud of shame? Her parents. If some old fart had recklessly endangered and then killed my daughter (and I have two), by gross moral negligence to start (the frat boy party and subsequent tragic drive to the beach to partake of the groupie) and base moral indifference mixed with a large helping of self-interest to finish her off, I would have either (a) killed him myself or, if a more rational person, (b) sworn a blood-vow to expose the sot-trash frat boy who killed her.

Where is Mary Jo’s father? Where is her mother?

What have the Kennedys bestowed upon them over the years – friendship… cash…who knows what. But, what could possibly be worth the life of your daughter – to keep your mouth shut and the autopsy that never was, destined to never be?

Anyway, I’ve got some great ideas to solve the deficit thing, end the bothersome wars we’re in, balance the budget and patch the ozone, while giving everybody more of everything.

So, can I eat a few babies this weekend?

Everybody down with that?

Thanks for this very informative article. I, too was under the spell of “Camelot’s heir apparent” at the time of the Newsweek report. I never knew he returned to his hotel and later complained about a noisy party. What person with any sense of “conscience” would behave like that? It’s one matter to be overwhelmed with guilt and remorse and “do nothing”. It’s an entirely different story to brazenly behave as if nothing has happened and you are entitled to a “good night’s sleep.”
I also didn’t know about Kennedy’s penchant for teen-age girls. As for those who put Bill Clinton in the same league with Kennedy, as far as I know women threw themselves at Bill and he didn’t say “no”.(At least that appears to be the case with Monica Lewinsky) BTW I’m not excusing Bill either but his womanizing seemed to be with women who were at least of the “age of consent” and seemed to like his advances.
That’s far different from forcing yourself on someone who doesn’t solicit or ask for for your unwanted advances or who is under age. Also, womanizing may cause pain to a spouse or girlfriend (I dated a few in my youth) but callously allowing someone to die to advance your political career is another “ball of wax” altogether. The latter is at the very least – “manslaughter” and is definitely a major “crime” for which most of us would spend some time incarcerated. And if we had political power or aspirations, it more than likely be the “death” of those.

I know that Bill Clinton wasn’t perfect, but what I DO know is that he hasn’t admitted to leaving a woman inside of a car that he crashed, where died. Ted Kennedy said he did this, and this makes all the difference in the world.

not even worth this much reply

I share your outrage about his then enablers/defenders, and present-day defenders too. Her parents may have been threatened. If you read this link: you will see how the investigation was itself botched because it was Kennedy and how he himself deliberately planned his every move after he drove over the bridge and left her to die in the car. He called her parents and didn’t tell them he was the driver. I don’t know when they came to know of his culpability in all of this. The decision to autopsy the body was left up to the medical officer who was only interested in not getting bogged down with this case. Since Kennedy did not report the accident for more than 9 hours the prosecutor didn’t have any evidence for drunk driving. It is a very disturbing account and how the man functioned like he did for decades after that is mind boggling.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041204072343/www.ytedk.com/chapter1.htm

I’ve thought about her parents.

This was the 1960′s, “THE Kennedy’s” were at the height of their fame in this country. One brother had been a President, another was a presidential contender. And they were RICH.

That would have been a very powerful family to go up against. Those in power wanted to protect Ted and their name @ at any costs. They could have, and would have ruined the Kopechne family even further. The Kopechne’s could have been blackmailed, they could have been blocked from getting employment. I think they could have been bullied into silence.

I know Ferd, I have had years of experience tweaking mail spam filters and though I usually get through pretty well, sometimes I get tagged myself. I think once you get tagged, there is a higher chance to get tagged again.

Yes, they had little chance of getting a fair shake. They stand no better a chance than did their daughter. It is all about class when we interact with our legal system.

From what I have read he did have injuries. Even LOGIC dictates that people in a car (esp. a large room car of those days, at a time of no or primitive seat belts) that flies off a bridge and turns over and settle at the bottom of a number of feet of water would have head injuries…anyone that has been in a car accident knows that the most minor accident can lead to head injuries if no seat belt is worn.

Thanks for being polite, r is for Roberta.

I know a few people that were in car accidents where passengers were involved and died/got injured. One particular case was a young man, middle class, who was driving while intoxicated, had an accident, his passenger friend died. He ran from the scene. After much legal hearings/court appearances/speculation, no charges of vehicular homicide were brought against him. Plea bargaining (the process by which close to 90% of legal cases are settled in the US)led to years of probation and community service. That was 15 years ago, the law and the families agree to give him a second chance and he lived up to their expectations. What is wrong with having done the same for EMK.

dude they probably wernt going more than 10 to 20 miles a hour and the hotel staff and his friends wernt concerned otherwise they would have called for help.face it your idol was a drunk and a lecher and was drunk when he went off the bridge and panicked because of the drinking.you want further proof of teddys lack of clear thinking when he was plowed just look to the two restauant incidents one of which was the so called sandwich incident with another stand up senator chris dodd and the other being caught having sex on the floor of the same restaurant with a female lobbyist.those two are the actions of a self centered frat boy and not a senior saenator that was a champion of equal rights for woman,give me a break.

In his entire senate career, Ted Kennedy did not do as much for humanity as Eleanor Roosevelt did in a single month. When she died in 1962, there was little to no TV coverage.

There was more hoopla over Ted Kennedy’s passing than there was when President Franklin D. Roosevelt died, although FDR had been president for 12 years and had pulled us through the Great Depression, and had saved Western Civilization when he guided us to victory in World War II over the two most formidable militaries the world had ever known (the German and the Japanese).

The Kennedys crave the spotlight and purposely magnify (glamorize) the importance of anything they do. Any Kennedy is assumed to be qualified (entitled) to hold public office simply because he or she is a Kennedy.

They did much good in life but they also did many things that would have ended anyone else’s political career.

‘Yeah, you killed a woman by driving drunk and then failing to report an accident. But if you help a person of color get elected, ALL is absolved!’

Please, that’s not what I said. Perhaps I needed to be clearer, imo, by supporting Obama (and Obama getting elected )EMK felt that the work of his brothers had come to fruition and that a glass ceiling had again broken…

“Oh, and you are never responsible for your personal actions if you happen to be a member of any minority group, even if you and your family are extremely important people with access to wealth and power.”

Where is this coming from?

Yeah, but it makes no sense, Doc. My comment was innocuous compared to some I have made here, which would make a sailor blush. I suppose context is everything.

What is wrong with having done the same for EMK.

He never owned up to his culpability and hid behind his family name. In a plea bargain, one stands before the bar of justice and comes clean, as it were. Teddy never did. Whether the Kopechnes forgave him or not or were perhaps bought off is immaterial. Irrespective of political ideology or affiliation, the law should be upheld. That the law isn’t always upheld is no justification for forgiving Teddy, which smacks of the fallacy of common practice and unsound argument.

“Sorry–I just puked at your overblown sense of your knowledge history in your theory that the Kennedys were persecuted by all of us Anglo Saxon Protestants.”

That’s not what I said, and I did not use the word “persecuted”. My “overblown sense of knowledge of history” on this particular subject matter comes from readings on the history of immigration to the US, Columbia U. Fact, Catholics have been a discriminated group in the US.

Hell, even if Chappquiddick happened today there’s STILL a chance the Kopechne parents would be villified, at least by some.

But I can’t completely fault IndieDogg’s remark — I would’ve wanted to wring the senator’s neck with my bare hands if it were my daughter.

That neck brace he wore at her funeral — give me an f-ing break! I can’t count the number of times I’ve seen perps on the local news in court wearing neck braces. It’s an old ploy.

“The previous commenter was trying to excuse Kennedy’s behavior because he was an Irish Catholic, which was considered a “minority group” back in the day. Go re-read the original comment for the context.”

Thank for recommending that my original post be read, because I was not “making excuses” because he was Irish Catholic in the pre-civil rights days. Really, it almost seems as the vitriol against the Kennedys (like the vitriol against the Clintons from the right and against Bush from the left) doesn’t allow for reading correctly.

Politicians and actors aren’t mythical beasts who can’t be callous individuals. Heck, I would say they would be even more so because they’re surrounded by “yes” men/women and have a sense of entitlement.

But they extol their own virtues at every opportunity, which means they ought to at least make an honest effort at living up to such sideshow-barker hype. If they can’t, then they deserve whatever they get. No one forced them to become politicians or put on such airs as they do. I mean, really, think about what you just said and put it into the context of how they get into, and remain in, office.

Yes, we see how liberal “progressive” Democrat men have “evolved” from the 60′s. I’m embarrassed that I stayed in the party for all those years. The misogyny had to finally become so obscene, so ugly and in my face, during the last selection that I had no choice. It changed my view of all my old male (well, female too)Democrat friends forever. So, I do know about denial.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the Kennedy’s didn’t seem to have much compassion for Joan Kennedy during her active alcoholism…and a defender replied that she was at the funeral and that she lives in a house not far away from Ted. Of course they all just love her to death. She keeps her mouth shut for the sake of her own security and that of her children’s legacy. I do recall some time back when she was living in desperate circumstances and was treated as an embarrassment to the family. My God, the hypocrisy is just unbelievable.

dudette, please. My goodness, you write as if 20 miles an hour can do no harm…. a family member almost went through a windshield, cracked it with her head, at 15 miles an hour when she was broadsided and sent against a tree. Live through it, then comment.

As for the personal, unless it is a crime brought up judicially, I prefer to leave it out of the political. I heard the same about Clinton, about how much of a drunk Bush was, how daddy Bush had a lover, how Newt ditched his dying wife and married a much younger staffer, how McCain left his dying wife to marry a young Cindy…let’s hope the younger generation of politicians live by today’s standard. Meanwhile, I’ll focus on policy. And, I’m not American born, I have no idols.

Did I read incorrectly, he pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, receiving a two month suspended sentence.

BS rw. A Mormon would have a problem getting elected too. Do you not recall the things said about Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee and their being Christians?

Ted Kennedy and his brothers got their start by their father. I watched part of a program on him, and believe me he wasn’t nice. He also was involved with the Chicago Mafia.

Like I say all roads lead to Chicago and that is “just the Chicago way.”

Still wonder why Teddy, dear Teddy was so stuck on Bambi dear Bambi?

Always count on the Left to exhibit their self-righteous and sanctimonious stance. The Kennedy family…good Christians? Right. The Left loves to feel that they are soooooo good. Soooooo noble for reaching down to help the poor…the same people they put there to begin with. Whether LBJ intended to destroy black families through The Great Society Welfare State, or not…unintended consequences and good intentions have the same destination.

Are the NeoCons any better? No. That’s why we have to get rid of both of them…remove them from influence in American politics forever. The quicker the Kennedys and their minions along with the Bush family and their cabal are removed from the political scene, the better.

Ted Kennedy was still bathing in the glow of adoration of Bobby. I was still in a state of shock in 1969 over MLK and RFK being killed the year before. He took full advantage of the public love affair with his brothers. The stories about JFK, RFK and Marilyn hadn’t even surfaced yet. It took a long time for our opinions of those fellows to diminish…and I still have a problem with Bobby…having held the belief for so long that he would have been effective in stopping the war, etc. In reality, we haven’t a clue if the changes he underwent would have held or he would have reverted back to his childhood conditioning. We do know that Teddy continued drinking and womanizing for decades after Mary Jo.

No one could have held their own against the Kennedy machine. I imagine Mary Jo’s family was a jumble of grief, fear, confusion, and wanting to protect their daughter’s reputation; not wanting to drag their girl’s laundry through Kennedy mud.

In reality we do not know if it was a drunken “accident” or a deliberate act. Was he even in the car when it went off the bridge? How did he get out? If he left a window open, why was the young lady not able to make her way out too?

No autopsy? Why not? Was she going to have a baby? Was she drugged? Why no autopsy? But then I imagine we know why, what we will never know is the truth of it all.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=6983464&rss=rss-wls-article-6983464

One link with 4 videos but not the TV show I was watching

I’ve been spammed.

Oprah does not a minority group make. She’s one person, albeit an extremely wealthy person.

Also, I’ve read the above quote and I don’t care for its tone or its insinuations about minority groups. I stand by my interpretation. Again, my point is that sweeping generalizations about one group or another is not only a specious way of argumentation, but just plain wrong.

This said, I do agree with your overall sentiments about Ted Kennedy and the Kennedy privilege they’ve enjoyed in this country.

tzada, Read the document in the link before commenting! You will find answers to many of your questions. He was the driver, he was able to get out and he noticed she didn’t, he didn’t seek help, he didn’t report the accident until after 9 hours.

Martha, I know how you feel. I am embarrassed, too, that I stayed a Democrat so long. Took those Democratic primaries to wake me up.

Was he even in the car when it went off the bridge? How did he get out? If he left a window open, why was the young lady not able to make her way out too?

Exactly!! THose questions have never been asked of TK. All he’s ever offered is an insinuation that MaryJo’s reputation was not very good. Remember when he publicly made the off-the-wall statement that no one should question MaryJo’s reputation? He was trying to plant a seed in the public’s mind about this young woman. What a louse! This is probably why the Kophechnes didn’t pursue the matter.

Massachusetts law mandates a minimum 20 days in jail for the crime of leaving the scene of an accident. That was evidently waived for a Kennedy.

What Teddy did not plead guilty to, even though he was guilty,
were the following:
1) driving with an expired license (His license had expired in February of that year).
2) driving under the influence of alcohol (his own admission on this in addition to the testimony of friends).
3) driving with a record of other violations (he had received several citations in Virginia where he lived while in the Senate).

A two months suspended sentence is not what you or I or almost anyone else would’ve received in those circumstances.

Two-month suspended sentence. That says it all. That was no plea, that doesn’t even qualify as a slap on the proverbial wrist.

There are plea bargains and then there are winks and nods. Please spare me the Ted made amends argument. He did not, no matter how one contorts the language to insinuate that he did.

And that “others” get the same treatment is, as I noted above, no argument.

No matter how much discrimination and death threats he might have gotten for being an Irish Catholic, this does NOT excuse allowing someone to die so horribly.

You’ve completely missed the point. The point – in response to rw’s comment – is that I don’t care WHAT discrimination you’ve suffered as a person of color, ethnic minority group, or Irish Catholic. This does NOT excuse someone driving drunk, leaving the scene of an accident, and letting a young girl drown to death alone in the bottom of a river. And then later making jokes about it!

I don’t care if you are Oprah, Ronald McDonald or Ted Kennedy. Wrong is wrong!

You apparently missed my sarcasm.

I guess she didn’t like their treatment of Mummy uh-er-ah-mmmmmm when she thought she could climb on the Kennedy political entitlement train with Uncle Teddy’s endorsement. Thank God for the outcome of that one.

I don’t think she was being at all facetious. I think she was being forthright.

Why Patience?

How is that any different or worse than Reagan sending an envoy and making a deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages another 145 days so HE could win the 1982 election?

Kennedy did nothing different, and at least Americans were not being held in horrible prison conditions as a result of his actions.

My point is neither Reagan nor Kennedy did “The Right Thing”. However if you are going to ignore the Biblical injunction “Judge not lest ye be judged” – then at least do so in an objective and no partisan manner.

I agree that the Kopechnes were at a serious disadvantage when it came to challenging the Kennedy Machine. They undoubtedly were compelled to keep their silence for reasons that only they can know. I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

My point is neither Reagan nor Kennedy did “The Right Thing”. However if you are going to ignore the Biblical injunction “Judge not lest ye be judged” – then at least do so in an objective and no partisan manner.

Neither were right but the biblical injunction about the judging of others does not not apply when one’s actions affect the lives of others who had no voice in the decisions made.

It was reported in The New Times magazine that Joseph Kopechne said that he and his wife rejected an autopsy because “we were led to believe that the autopsy was primarily to find out if my daughter was pregnant.

Perhaps they were worried about bringing shame to their daughter as the comment by Diana says.

The stark contrasts between the ideals of the Progressive movement and the right wing’s backwards and greedy ideology were out in public Saturday for all to compare

This is one of the biggest loads of manure ever to be posted on this website. Gee, Skippy, do you think that taking more money from the middle class is a “progressive” thing to do? You are no different from the Bushbots who also loved the idea of redistributed wealth. The only difference is the direction in which it travels. It matters not whether my pocket is rifled for a rich man or a lazy man–it is still being rifled. Try peddling your rubbish over at Huffy.

“Massachusetts law mandates a minimum 20 days in jail for the crime of leaving the scene of an accident. That was evidently waived for a Kennedy.”

Was the mandate in effect in 1969?

Mary,

I did not WATCH it – I listened on the radio. If Caroline’s daughter did that she should thank the stars that her grandmother Rose was not around to see that. I can guarantee that young lady would have forgotten what the word “sit” meant when she would finally have been able to do so.

That is disgusting, and I agree that the country is better off without Caroline in the Senate. NOW, if we can get rid of Dodd, Leahy and Harry Reid, Congress might just become minimally bearable again.

It’s not bs. And I agree with you about the Mormons, was perplexed that Romney’s religion was even an issue in this day and age. He seems like an average conservative politician who happens to be Mormon. As for Palin and Huckabee, I don’t know much about their religion but some one told me that those that call themselves Christians are very conservative, bordering on fundamentalism. Again, they seem like average conservative politicians. I don’t care what religion a politician is, as long as they don’t impose it on others, I just look at their politics on issues.

Again, “any minority group” is a questionable generalization — sarcasm (yeah right!) or no sarcasm. Had you been more specific about which group you were referring to and not used “any” you might have more ground to stand on, but as stated in the original comment your argumentative ground is specious. Anyway, debating this particular issue is getting to be BOring so I will move on.

Yeah, but it makes no sense, Doc.

If it made sense, some Spam Artist would figure it out. It seems like this particular Spam Filter trashes a certain percentage of posts for no reason whatsoever, except to keep everybody befuddled. I know I’ve babbled on about this before. The Almighty Spam Filter seems to emulate the arbitrary injustice of life in the unverse. I think I’m going nuts, Ferd.

What you leave out Tzada, is that Joe Kennedy only made his fortune because of Prohibition. As always, the law of unintended consequences always gets lost in the shuffle. No Prohibition, no Joe; no Joe, to John, Robert, or Ted. Ponder that for awhile.

Read the timeline link above, fool.

My 10 left fingers are at it again. That should read, ” No Joe,

no

John, Robert, or Ted”.

He also left a woman dying in that car and didn’t report the accident for 12 hours before he was finally forced to report it. That poor woman died an agonizing death trying to breathe in the small air pocket until the oxygen ran out. If he had reported the accident, she might not have died. Read the timeline, fool.

YES–read the timeline!

You’re quite welcome!

My grandfather was a first generation Irish Catholic and a delegate for the Senate election of 1962 when Ted Kennedy ran against Edward McCormack. King Kennedy came calling at my grandfather’s house, trying to get his vote for the special Senate seat. My grandfather looked him in the eye and said, “You are not ready to be a Senator now, and I don’t think you will ever be ready.” Looks like Gramp knew more than any of us.

I should add my grandfather was a factory worker living with his wife and children in a tiny house, but he knew right from wrong and would not be intimidated by the Kennedy dynasty.

That is what the interviewer wrote — the quote is from the book in the link. I think she was serious.

So have all subgroups of the U.S. citizenry. My grandparents came from Russia–Germans from Russia. Sometimes they were called Volga Deutsch and sometimes from a different part of Russia Bessarabian Germans. They were here during WWI and WWII and while growing up my grandmother remembers “NO GERMANS ALLOWED” signs in her small town. They were, by the way, a different type of Anglo Saxon Protestant, but they arrived after all the problems the Irish Catholics faced. The Kennedys of which we speak were by that time very wealthy and not having problems in terms of prejudice.

Good for your grandfather!

sorry, missed the speaking for the Kennedy defenders part.

you forgot the link.

rw,

People are individuals. Please, to further the obviously wonderful overgeneralized education you’re getting at Columbia, please read the comment by a person named lana at the bottom of the thread. She tells about her Irish Catholic grandfather’s reaction to Ted’s request that he support Ted in his campaign to be a senator.

Mountainaires,

I was informed that Mary Jo Kopechne was pregnant when she died. Per haps thhat explains why her parents did not want an autopsy.

My family owned property in W. Dennis and we were at the Cape when it happened. My father, a VP of Engineering for a large utility company, also worked with the Kennedy’s behind the scenes. That morning the phone rang early. I do not know what time, but my father had gone, when I had gotten up, made the coffee and fed my 7 month old infant and then noticed it was 7:03 AM.

Typical Irish Catholic family where the “adults” of Teddy’s generation told the children of my generation little or next to nothing. The only other detail I have was overhearing my father talking to my mother saying the “girls” parents wanted money and certain guarantees.

Cannot say for certain, but it is my feeling that the Kennedy’s always quietly and behind the scenes helped the Kopechne family with kids colleges, grants and whatever.

Thanks for posting that. It really shows an unbelievable ability for overt and covert lying…by commission and omission. He was such an actor, behaving as if he knew nothing that it took a week for all the various supporting cast and clueless authorities (from whom he withheld the truth of his involvement)to figure out that he was the driver and had chosen to leave her and try to save his own ass.

Of course, old Joe was still alive so he was probably the first of those many phone calls Teddy made. It was the same with the general public following the story in real time…we only got it in staged segments. It looks so much worse when you have it all laid out in one place. But we really knew he was a liar and a cheat…from beginning with caught cheating and lying about it in school.

I bookmarked the page since there’s one last segment to come.

Brave man.

I’ve been stuck in it all day. No retrieval.
Maybe if they see yours, they’ll free me too.

Portia

I disagree with your psychopathic diagnosis. For years I have strongly felt that Ted had what were termed Schizoid episodes.

Why do people believe Ted was not remorseful, or that he did not try and make amends? Did any of you know him or the Kennedy family.

I did know them – both the good and bad. While deeply flawed personally, Moutainaires had it right when mentioning the depth and commitment to public service.

Ted was at his best when helping others or fighting for the “Camelot” ideals. When alone, Ted was depressed, morose and his demons took over and controlled him.

Ted was brutally honest and very frank. He did not place blame everywhere else. And with those who knew him, he never created “stories” and Ted often blamed himself when something bad happened. A good example of this last was when his daughter had cancer. Ted never turned away a constituent who asked for help. He had his aides follow-up on every situation until it was “fixed”.

Thousands and thousands of people in MASS have stories about how he helped them. Ted personally called the families of every MA vet killed or wounded, and he or someone on his staff would go to the funerals or make visits to the VA hospitals. Most of this was never reported to the press.

In the late summer/early fall of 2007, Bush ordered an ICE raid on a small leather factory in New Bedford, MA. The people arrested were mostly woman and their families were Mayan Indians who spoke not a word of Spanish and only a little English. Typical of the Guatemalan culture they came from, the men, also illegal immigrants, did not have a clue how to cook or care for their children.

Ted Kennedy spent over a week in the basement of a very shabby Catholic Church. At first Ted had aides buying diapers, baby food and some food staples. Well the cartons kept disappearing too fast, so Ted had aides go to banks and get stacks of $100 bills.

Now Ted has no clue about what money will or won’t buy, which is WHY he always traveled with an Aide. When he first became Senator he spent everything he had in his pocket and was broke very fast – hence the idea of an aide at all times. And no Ted did not use body guards like some Congress people do.

Anyway, at the Church Ted was handing out $100 for each kid plus one for the father. A friend of mine who was there told me that one man had 8 kids, a babe in arms and all the way up to 10 years old. So in Ted’s non-mathematical world he gave the guy $900. Then Ted turned to my friend and asked how the hell can these people making minimum income or less buy diapers and baby food for their kids, when they cost something like $75 a carton? Ted literally thought all kids 10 and under wore diapers.

In addition to the money and food, Ted also hired social workers who spoke the Mayan language. Ted personally paid for them and lawyers to go to Texas and help the people rounded up. At the end of a month Ted Kennedy had brought all of them back to their families, with the exception of 3 woman and 1 man who were deported.

Ted often paid for things like this out of his own money and without getting reimbursed by the government.

Psychopaths do not wander their states looking to do good, without press notice and fan fair. Ted always did, as do some of the other Kennedys.

RW,

Your first paragraph is accurate.

Your second one is B/S. Obama made Kennedy a promise to get nationalized health care. Ted has been aware of his cancer for the last 3 years.

I personally think Ted would go ape if he knew what those Chicago crooks and thugs have put in that bill.

Obama’s damn color seem to matter only to Obots, and Chicago gangland thugs. Don’t you realize most people over 40 moved onto a post civil right world decades ago? You guys are living in some kind of time warp!

Mary Jo was an only child.

If you reread my post, you will see that I did not call Ted Kennedy a psychopath. While some may confuse the two terms as similar, I used the term “sociopath” in the sense of someone who is only concerned with his own wants and needs and who has little or no regard for the concerns of others. A man who would leave another human to die in a submerged car while he returned to his hotel room to sleep fits that description. In addition, by the account of a long-time friend who tried to help him that night (Gargan), Teddy tried to reframe the story to say that Mary Jo had taken the car and was driving it herself so that he would not even be linked to the accident.

As for your contention that he thought of others and never failed to help a constituent, well, I have my own story. My father-in-law, who had been a personal physician to Chiang Kai Shek in Taiwan, came to this country and chose Boston to offer his sons a chance to live the American dream. As a physician who believed in a man who could help minorities and who contributed to Kennedy, my father-in-law wrote an appeal to his senator, Ted Kennedy, to ask for his help in getting his parents to this country. Kennedy never even bothered to reply.

If there were photo ops, if the press was covering it, Teddy was more than happy to appear as the beneficent senator. But I know he was all talk and no show when it came to real help. So maybe you can praise the man, but there are those of us who know the real Ted Kennedy was a shameless self-promoter and a sociopath.

I did notice it was a quote. I was disagreeing with the author of the quote. Or perhaps Joan said she was only being facetious. I wouldn’t blame her for covering her (_,_) by a disclaimer.

Wow! Lana, that is a story that should be recorded in the family history. Your grandfather was an admirable person and yes, very brave to defy the Kennedys.

No. click on “link”

I will take the filters and everything that goes with them over those infernal captchas any day. It is just word pairings, word counts, repeating words etc. without saying too much you have to understand the spammer to understand the filters. All in all these guys do a good job with them. Any angst should go to spammers and any left over angst might can to Google whose page rank algorithms spawned link spam as a viable industry.

Yes, you’re right on, yttik. I’m nauseous as I think about it. Thank you LJ for your article. I was totally unaware of the incident in the restaurant you quoted. My gawd, what a jackass! I’m also glad he’s dead. Mary Jo was horrendous, but his continuing behavior shows his utter contempt for women. No wonder he stabbed Hillary in the back this last election.

It’s clear you still aren’t getting it (my comment was NOT directed as an insult of minority groups, it was directed towards the thinking that rw expressed), so moving on at this point is your best bet. Getting angry at me is pointless, I meant no offense to you.

I’m not angry with you Hillary or Bust. I think we’re all basically on the same side here and share similar opinions about TK.

Nellie, if there were ever an NQ article about the “October Surprise”, I’m sure it would elicit a lot of comments. But this thread is about Sen. Kennedy and as I stated above, the aspect of the Forbes story that bothers me the most is the senator’s certainty that he’d have US media complicity to carry out his plan. My feelings are based on placing it within the context of the most recent presidential campaign and the media’s role in it.

It’s my opinion that blogs that allow comments are blogs that invite judgement. Besides, it’s within my prerogative to either ignore or adhere to biblical injunctions.

At the time I remember Rose Kennedy personally asked Mary Jo’s parents not to have an autopsy done and they agreed. It was a different time…. and not necessarily better.

I learned a lot about Teddy this past weekend that I was completely unaware of. I was impressed by the comments of his family and friends. But, as if his boozing and womanizing weren’t bad enough, several other things make more sense to me now.

His obsession with civil rights went far beyond that of his brothers John and Bobby. The primary reasons he could identify with injustice toward AA’s were from the stories told to him and his siblings by their Mother. She saved newspapers from the the 1920s, 30s and 40s that had classified ads that often included this: “No Irish Catholics need apply”. Even though the Kennedys became very wealthy, as Irish Catholics, they knew what prejudice was in those days, and Rose was determined that her children and grandchildren would also never forget what their ancestors suffered.

The other important tidbit was Ted’s relationship with the Clintons. They always had a friendly relationship. I recall seeing pictures of the Clintons on one of his boat outings. But, in 1980, the Clintons supported President Carter in that primary in which Ted challenged the sitting president of his own party. In addition, when Bill was President, he was always careful not to be seen with Ted much because Bill was more of a centrist. Ted apparently took note of all that. So, when 2008 rolled around, despite his support of women and the Equal Rights Amendment, he chose the AA over the woman, for more than one reason.

Oh, and one last thing, I was not aware of how much the press made fun of Ted for being so inarticulate. During the funeral coverage they showed the disasterous interview Ted had with Roger Mudd. Mudd asked him why he wanted to be POTUS. Ted was completely lost for words. He finally managed to get something out that was most unimpressive and, it sure wasn’t about helping anybody. Many thought that was why he lost the nomination.

This reminded me of a few other things. As we all know, Caroline Kennedy was also very tongue-tied in interviews last year when she tried to steal Hillary’s senate seat after she and Uncle Teddy derailed Hillary’s campaign with their endorsement of 0zero. Had she been better prepared, she probably would be Senator Kennedy today – must run in the family.

It also reminded me that the Kennedys are orators like you-know-who – translation: they can read speeches with feeling, but have a hard time stringing a sentence together off-the-cuff.

And the article stated that Edward Kennedy paid for and supplied the lawyers for Kopechne’s parents to make that public request that there be no autopsy, for the benefit of the grieving parents, I’m sure…. heh…..

I’d say our lack of true public servants goes way, way back…..

I would vote to totally clean house… and get regular people, accepting campaign finance reform, to get out and show people their history of and motivation for public service, and let THOSE people run the government for a chance….

Get the PODS out of office, and let the humans have their country back!

Martha, you speak for me as well. Hard to believe these men (and women!) were being so sexist under my nose while still rah, rah, rahing the women’s movement. Inbred sexism is bigger than all of us. It is something we will have to point out until the day we die.

They were a huge presence, minority or not, in Boston and Chicago.

It was brought out that Joan Kennedy’s caretaker is Teddy Jr., who was the best speaker of the day at Saturday’s funeral. He doesn’t look like a Kennedy. He apparently looks like Joan’s side of the family. He was very impressive.

To the best of my knowledge, the disrimination against the Irish had subsided by the time of the brothers’ generation. After all, JFK got elected president – no one mentioned his Irish heritage – it was his Catholicism that scared people, as we had never had a Catholic president before (would he be taking orders directly from the Pope?, etc).

And the Kennedys by this time were already wealthy and had lots of power. Knowing what I know of their father, Joe, I’d say the rest of the city was scared of threats FROM Joe, but not that Joe or his boys were getting any threats.

For what it’s worth, they’re all the same word, just used in different time periods. First the term was sociopath, then years later changed to psychopath, until it became anti-social….

As bad as Bill Clinton’s womanizing was, I am convinced he has learned his lessons on that dark side of his past.

There is hardly a day that goes by that someone, somewhere brings up the Lewinsky mess if for only a moment of digression. It has got to be torcherous for him. But he also knows his legacy is so overshadowed with that fact that should he EVER be caught again in a similar circumstance, he can forget his legacy.

I think he has worked too long and hard on redeeming himself from that awful time to squander it now. Plus, age does have a way of bringing you to reality with sexual prowress.

Roberta, I agree that they broke a glass ceiling, but I don’t believe that they were killed because they were Catholic OR Irish… I think they were killed because their plans were upsetting the status quo. The government wasn’t too pleased with that. Now, years later, we have a whole government that is trying to change the status quo!!

Get the PODS out of office, and let the humans have their country back!

Amen to that!

Anti-socials are nothing if not clever and manipulative. They often seem very charming. But they have no true remorse, and their actions don’t reflect any sad feelings in themselves, but rather represent a way to manipulate that impression in others. Putting “personal touches” on things would have fit right in, IMO.

Well, to the best of my knowledge, the disrimination against the Irish had subsided by the time of the brothers’ generation. After all, JFK got elected president – no one mentioned his Irish heritage – it was his Catholicism that scared people, as we had never had a Catholic president before (would he be taking orders directly from the Pope?, etc).

And the Kennedys by this time were already wealthy and had lots of power. Knowing what I know of their father, Joe, I’d say the rest of the city was scared of threats FROM Joe, but not that Joe or his boys were getting any threats.

Diana L.C. You are right in that abortion has become the women’s movement. Right off the bat, we lose 50% of women who are pro-life. That is where the women’s movement made a wrong turn. The abortion rights groups took it over and had those of us who believe in equal work for equal pay, etc. do their dirty work for them.

If we learned nothing else from the elections of 2008, when NARAL and NOW endorsed *Obama* for God’s sake, with an incredible woman running, we must let them fight the battle of abortion on their own. I would also ask, why are we still fighting that battle? Abortion is part of the constitution and is the law. We need never mention it again. I surely won’t!

Thank you for sharing these stories, Nellie, and showing the other side of Teddy. I agree he did do a lot of good through legislation, and now it turns out he had a very caring side as well. I take back my previous comment. And frankly I loved the “Camelot” years and worked on Bobby’s campaign.

I am writing again to this blog, asking for clarifcation on how we get into spam, or moderation so often, and for so long. Most of us, most of the time, are not offensive, vulgar or racist.
So I’m asking again for guidelines
1.so we can get our comments printed
2. and can someone try to get them online sooner.

Im writing this at 11:25 a.m.

[Tess, we don't know why your comment ends up in the spam so often. Comments end up in spam based on some rules and a software controls it. When we do find it, we fish them out, like now. It is certainly not personal.]

I have four problems with the Kennedy’s:

1. They make their reputation of generosity by creating (or trying to create) legislation that directs hard workers to redistribute their income (taxes) for ultra-liberal Kennedy causes. The Kennedy clan does this without reservation and while not one once offering to give up their precious trust funds for this purpose.
2. The male Kennedy clan, have history of abuse towards females by affairs, raping, assaulting and murder them; or, by showing them the fringes of the Kennedy wealth and power. When caught the trust fund kicks in to spend whatever it takes to protect the clan.
3. Kennedy’s look down on those who disagree with them – politically or in any way – they believe they are entitled to and have a birthright for their enamored position in life.
4. The media loves the Kennedy’s. According to mainstream media, the Kennedy clan can do no wrong; this love affair makes a normal person sick. If some of the stuff the Kennedy family has done was written into the dirt like it was for the Clintons, Camelot would have been history a long time ago. I mean … I mean the whole trust fund was created by illegal activities. I think it was Joseph Kennedy that tried to sell the US under the bus with pre-WW2 Germany. John’s affairs … Marilyn Monroe … murder of Mary Jo … it continues today …

One less Kennedy and good riddance

PM317,

Seems I was unwittingly one of those “enablers”. I do appreciate the link.

I am reeling and stunned about what I “did not know”. Finding out 40 years later, I feel betrayed, duped and deeply saddened.

My emotions are roiling right now, so I will leave it there.

Why don’t you explore other sources of information besides your bloody timeline, Like a friggin lawyer in the state of Mass. A little tidbit on Am. judicial system, it’s adversarial, based on common law, therefore NOT codified and open to – bargaining -.

Defense Strategies for a Leaving the Scene of an Accident or Leaving The Scene of Property Damage Charge

There are a lot of different ways to take on an beat a Leaving the Scene charge in Massachusetts. First of all, they have to prove that you were responsible and that you were the one involved in the accident, which isn’t always cut and dried. There are other options as well, such as paying restitution in return for having the charges dropped. If you feel you may be responsible and made a mistake, I can make a strong argument to dismiss the case in the interests of fairness and justice, or work out a deal to get around any serious penalties. Avoiding your having a criminal record is almost always the primary goal in these cases, and the sooner that I can get on the case, the more options we will have to avoid the harshest outcome.

I agree, there are always many factors to a situation. And no doubt their policies was one of the principal ones, if not THE principal one.

it’s adversarial, based on common law, therefore NOT codified and open to – bargaining -.

Yeah in which some have more bargaining power than others. He received merely a wink and a nod, irrespective of your arguments to the contrary. Anyone else would have been treated in much harsher terms. That is the crux of the matter–no more and no less.

But you keep refusing to read the timeline because it may negate your arguments.

Yes, one assassin was a strange young man who spent years in Russia. The other, Sirhan Sirhan (sp?) was also not the normal Anglo Saxon Protestant or Catholic Hater or even a person working for another party or political group. I do not buy into the conspiracy theories. Think of all the assassination attempts after: on Ford, on Reagan. These attempted assassin were all nutcases.

I just do not buy that Ted deserved any more sympathy or special treatment because of his two brothers’ deaths. He should, after the incident that caused Mary J. K’s death, gone out of public life so as not to cause her family any more pain–if you read the timeline, he should have at least been charged with manslaughter–and used his family name and money quietly and humbly.

Obviously money in ANY COUNTRY speaks, remember, your law specifically states: innocent before proven guilty – and the in that type of adversarial system a defendant already starts with a plus.

Then, there is the court of public opinion which when it refuses to accept a plea or a verdict, rather than working to change the legal system, it becomes a mob against a plaintiff or defendant. And, imo, that’s pretty primitive.

I read it, and my “wonderful overgeneralized education” in polisci tells me that Kennedys were excellent politicians. The name of the game in politics is to win, to garner votes, the candidate that has the best strategy garners the most votes (in the US it would be popular and/or electoral).

“I do not buy into the conspiracy theories.”

I keep an open mind to them. Because we all know the public never receives full information.

“he should have at least been charged with manslaughter–and used his family name and money quietly and humbly.”

Maybe you ought to work to change your legal system. And, I don’t agree he should have remained quiet and humble. People have accidents, people make mistakes, let them redeem their actions in the way they know how for the greater good.

“Your second one is B/S.”

Very well might be; I wasn’t stating it as fact, it was simply an opinion.

I have learned a lot about Kennedy that I was completely unaware of too when he passed. Trying to be respectful of someone passing and then later reading those gory details on various sites shows how much these guys are protected on both sides of the aisle.

I have long suspected what little does make it out to the press is a ‘limited hangout’ and we don’t know the half of it. And here with the death of Kennedy we are given many of examples of that practice.

Bought and paid for….the lot of them. The press and the politicians.

The waitresses in DC should be given hazard pay for dealing with these predators. Clearly they can’t be sued for their behavior and it is starting to look like you can’t get into Congress unless you are a perv. Geez….is it a requirement you have to have something in your background worthy of blackmail to get there? If you don’t vote this way…this story gets out there.

Great quote Ohio Granny….

“But in DC, everyonone celebrates the devil.”

Anna, thanks for pointing me in that direction. It changed my opinion on many things.

I find it hard to understand why he is being judged as a politician for his behavior in his personal life-the two are separate.

But back to my former question-if there live dabate on a radio station between pro Obama bloggers and anti Obama bloggers about the behavior of both sides during the primary and election-the predictions and accusations and how they turned out would Larry Johnson want to be part?

This conversation is also going on at Joseph Cannon’s web site.