Dick Cheney’s Chutzpah Moment [Update]

I wouldn’t bet on an honest investigation anywhere on this planet.
Diogenes is still out there with his lantern.

As usual, you make a lot more sense than any of the alleged pundits out there blathering away.

Too bad Dick was not so concerned when Valerie Plame’s identity as a CIA intelligence officer was being spread around town by the likes of Scooter Libby and Karl Rove (and yes, I know Rich Armitage was shooting off his mouth as well).

Dick Cheney should go quietly out to pasture as he is an integral part of the problem and has no right to put in his counterfeit two-cents worth.

here here. Great post LJ.

That is the whole banana as they say.

I haven’t been a voting Democrat ever, and have about as much use for the Republicans as another cavity.

What has irked me this whole time is the lack of judgement outside of partisan rancor about this issue. As I wrote here yesterday on Mel Goodman’s article, the CIA and other agencies have perfectly professional workers who actually have integrity. When they do make a mistake, they handle it like professionals. Yes there are the wingnuts in every bureaucracy, but we can’t ignore the honest folks who are doing their jobs for national security.

What is often misunderstood about intelligence, from my lay view (correct me where I’m wrong LJ), is that proper intel can avert more catastrophes than cause them. By knowing that your ‘enemy’ isn’t really much of a threat right now, you can call down the saber rattling nuts in Congress or the masses. If you’re lucky the President isn’t going to be your wingnut.

Dick Cheney is such a wingnut. He’s spent more time avoiding war and sending other people off to war than anyone I’ve seen in American politics. Some of the other loons like Duncan Hunter at least served his country, was awarded for his service, and is thus rightly entitled to his opinion. But Cheney? Hell no.

Having only street fights or such as my experience, I can tell you many chickenhawks used to love to see me get into a fight as the proxy for their cowardly insecurities. They’d talk up the fight and I’d wind up fighting it. They counted on me to bail them out time and time again. So though I lack military on the ground experience, I’ve seen this same sort of chickenshit nonsense from others. They talk a good game, act tough, then send someone else out to be the casualty. No thanks.

As to the morality of torture, I completely agree. What have you left if you give away the very principles you claimed you lived by before pushed to violence? No good warrior is a dumb warrior. Blind brute force is only good for short term goals. We’ve been clearly informed by interrogators in Iraq that after the abuses at Abu Ghraib were revealed that there was a direct result in the increase of hostilities from people who had otherwise opted out of this fight. Now they were compelled to stand up for what they see as an injustice.

I believe they were right in doing so. I would if the roles were reversed.

LJ, isn’t that the art of counter-terrorism? Isn’t it filled with sessions of being in the shoes of the ‘insurgent’ or the ‘enemy’? Not only would you be assessing attacks on leaders, supply routes, and allies to your enemy, but you’d also be recruiting based on the offenses of your enemy.

Dick Cheney needs to strap a goddamn helmet on and grab his inhaler and a new pacemaker and go fight his fight. I want to see him prosecuted for orchestrating this bullshit. It has been to the detriment of our government, our country’s moral, our image abroad, and to the quality of the citizen discussion. Now we have people who argue based on one too many Jack Bauer scenarios. Adults now who grew up watching one too many Rambo movies and the like are so quick to be gung ho for something they don’t even conceive. Meanwhile our military is exploited yet again in vain. They are too valuable to be whipping them around and to waste lives, resources, and credibility fighting in Iraq despite the knowledge that Saddam’s weapons systems had been destroyed.

The politician in charge now is also green as hell about the consequences of war. He’s a good talker to some but full of shit all together. It is up to him to continue covering for Dick Cheney and crew in order to avail himself the same luxuries that dictators love, but he doesn’t have half the cajones that old Cheney does, so I don’t think it will bode well for him to continue his current course.

Either way, thanks LJ for your takes on these matters, for running NQ, and calling it like you see it. It is much appreciated. tt007

[...] the whole story here: Larry Johnson aggregated by [...]

Yours is a well-written, thoughtful comment. And I certainly agree with you about Dickless Cheney. I served while that chickenhawk was running Ford’s White House. He was useless even then (along with that other scumbag, Rummy)

While I agree with Mr. Johnson’s assessment I doubt that any but low level folks will be punished.

As we said in the military sh*t rolls down hill.

Since you brought it up what exactly was your problem with Cheney and/or Rumsfeld during the Ford administration?

I served under those two boobs. Rumsfeld, as Secretary of Defense, understood el zilcho about how the military works and he further proved it under Dubya. Cheney, as WH Chief of Staff, did little except steer a good man, Ford, in entirely wrong directions. I had/have no patience with either of them.

As we said in the military sh*t rolls down hill.

I remember that all too well. Why be accountable and accept responsibility when you can shift the blame downstream?

Cheny is only covering his own ass,he is loyal only to himself and money . I think we need to get voices and support out there for people that are going to be used as scapegoats. everyone knows what happened and why cheny/rumsfeld did what they did and stepped all over everyone to get their sadistic ways. Now it is time for them to pay. not the the people following orders. I am afraid with the corruption and money that cheny and his gang have they are going to instigate some kind of disaster for this country to distract us like they have done before.

[...] Dick Cheney's Chutzpah Moment : NO QUARTER [...]

Thank you, Larry. I’ve said before, I find the whole idea that America sanctions torture, aka “enhanced interrogation,” as absolutely abhorrent. But if you do an investigation it needs to go up the chain of command. Or you don’t do it at all.

What I’m hearing now sounds too much like political posturing–we’ll bring in the small fry, embarrass the Republicans, while washing our hands of any real culpability. And weaken our intelligence agency and thereby our safety in the bargain.

The whole thing makes me sick and disgusted. If the Dems [my former party] had been serious and had any guts then Pelosi would not have nixed the impreachment button when the Dems took control of the Congress in ’06. They threw it away then, much to my dismay. And as far as I can tell, they lost the opportunity and the window for a full investigation. Why? Because I think there’s probably evidence that the Dems have their own share of responsibility in a going along to get along scenario. Or she had her eyes on the prize: Obamaland.

Listening to Cheney go on and on with these news interviews makes my skin crawl. I wish I could trust the current WH and crew to do the right thing.

But quite frankly, I don’t.

Efficacy does not trump morality, but it helps to shape morality. If torture does not work, than it is immoral to use it, and those doing it are no better than sadists. But if the torture of, e.g., KSM led to vital information that we couldn’t get by other means, and that information saved lives – than it would have been immoral NOT to those techniques.

That KSM baloney has been rebuked time and time again. Please don’t try to foist it off on people who actually read the background news.

Two wrongs still don’t make a right. The utilitarian argument you use has been dispatched many times.

Agreed.

Pretty gutless of this blog to not cover Van Jones.

Weak.

I used to respect you all as honest lefties.

Why are you posting this crap on a thread about Dick Cheney?

Lt Colonels don’t get promoted to Majors, it’s the other way around. Excuse my nit picking

Elaine,
Learn to read. The article clearly states LTC to Major General. Don’t be a nitwit who nitpicks because she can’t do simple reading comprehension.

US APNewsAlert

(AP) – 10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — Obama aide Van Jones resigns as environmental adviser amid controversy over past statements.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jjHS8S3jIndU2oI6WHB_KqB-pvwAD9AHJBMG1

I wrote about it last night you fucking moron. Learn to read asshole.

1 down 33 to go!

Beck, you magnificent bastard!

Hell yea !!

Most networks will have an great time trying to explain his resignation since they didn’t even mention that there was a problem in the first place.

I hope Glen keeps track of where Vanny goes next. We need to know what other mischief the “czars” are into when they become “former czars”. Count on it. They won’t change their agenda. But, oh happy day that we aren’t paying the salary for this viper.

Sorry Larry. I didn`t mean to hijack your thread but I couldn’t resist.

Article said he resigned early Sunday morning. Early is right. 1:30 AM and I just saw it.

I guess Beck stole a page from Alinsky……….Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

honest lefties,

oop c

“True intelligence professionals understand and live by the moral codes upheld in the Nuremberg trials”

Yes, but what’s different is that during Nuremberg they were found to have been following the orders of a recognized war criminal. “Just following orders” really is an excuse when the orders are coming from the President and Congress and nobody has bothered to hold any of them accountable.

Acually Harp, in a wierd but VERY ironic way, this resignation is exactly what LJ was talking about.

BO didn’t fire this guy. That is telling.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

Correct.

You *really* need to change your moniker to “Anti-Literacy”, fool. Why don’t you go hunting with Cheney?

What Ferd said…

[...] the whole story here: Larry Johnson aggregated by [...]

that’s bullshit.

i looked over the last 10 stories last night and NO VAN JONES.

Stop attacking folks for pointing out facts, Larry.

It is quite unbecoming.

I see now that you have posted on VAn Jones NOW, after my criticism.
I am glad you are listening, despite your vicious and fact free attack.

I’ll fucking attack you then you moron. You want to talk about Van Jones, start your own fucking blog. Who the fuck do you think you are to go to a blog and start dictating what goes on there? You loathsome turd, we are discussing Cheney on this post and there are two other posts to discuss Van Jones. I’d suggest you read that name at the top of the blog that identifies the owner and then shove your head back in your ass and type.

Happy Labor Day you pathetic git.

With Love,
tt007

It would be paradise on earth, not to mention Washington, if the CIA could clone a few hundred “Larry Johnsons”, especially in these desolate, trying times.
Valerie Plame was betrayed most cruelly by an uber-partisan, misguided, treasonous group of Bushian assholes. Valerie deserves a medal of recognition by Obama. But then we’d have to assume that the man inhabiting the White House has:
a) a conscience
b) patriot love
c) passion for Justice
d) intelligence

Obama has none of the above. We may have to wait until Hillary Diane Rodham assumes the presidency…hopefully 2012….amen.

Anti Freedom Fighter Ass Clown

Please call home. Your mother has a new white jacket ready and waiting for you. They’re comin’ to take you away tomorrow.

The extremist assholes of both ‘right’ and ‘left’ suffer from incurable Chenopia and Obamyopia.

Larry, my bad, huh? The only explanation I can muster is my mind must of blown out on the level of rank jumping, from Lt Col to Maj Gen, that’s a nice elevator ride