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Finally! The Skinny on Financing ObamaCare:

Here’s How: OBAMA IS GOING TO SQUEEZE EVERY ONE, RICH AND POOR, FOR NEW “FEES” (a.k.a. TAXES) or PENALTIES.

Who Will Collect Those “Fees”? GUIDO THE LOAN SHARK? NOPE, THE I.R.S.

Do You Believe Obama’s Promise That You Can Keep Your Current Plan? IF YOU BELIEVE IN SANTA AND THE EASTER BUNNY, YES. OTHERWISE YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY WILL GET SLAMMED WITH A 35% SURTAX — AND WILL HAVE TO SLASH YOUR BENEFITS BY 35%.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

NOW: The transcript of a panel discussion on MSNBC’s Morning Joe on Monday, September 14, 2009:

LAWRENCE O’DONNELL (Bronwyn’s Caveat: Yes, yes, I know. But read his revelations anyway because he’s a true expert, as I explain at the end): What the month of August did was once again avoid any specifics in the legislation. “Death panels” was a gift because the White House and Democrats got to say, “That’s not true, there’s no death panels in there.”  Even Newt Gingrich reached the point where he acknowledges that.  

No one talked about the particulars of the employer mandate.  No one talked about the 8% payroll tax. No one talked about the individual mandate.

No one talked about poor people who won’t be able to afford insurance even when they are ordered to buy it and will end up paying the government a penalty instead since they can’t afford to buy the plan.

No one has talked about the 35% — I’m going to say that number again, Joe, because you’ve never heard it before — A THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT SURTAX ON HEALTH CARE PLANS that are worth more than eight thousand dollars a year.

LAWRENCE O’DONNELL (continued): The Joe Scarborough health care plan is worth a lot more than $8,000 a year.  

Now remember, THIS 35% TAX IS ON THE COMPANIES THAT PROVIDE THAT PLAN.  Those companies are already subject to corporate income taxation.  This is a separate … Now, I could go on and on.

You’ve never had a Republican come on your show and talk about that.  They come on and they talk about the theatrics.  They come on and talk about whether Joe Wilson should apologize or not. Joe Wilson was part of helping the Democrats and the President continue to avoid shining ANY lights on ANY of the particulars of this plan which are going to be very difficult to get past and very difficult to swallow IF THE PUBLIC EVER LEARNS ABOUT THEM.  IF REPUBLICANS EVER LEARN ABOUT THEM.

I was in Washington last week, and I talked to a Senator who DID NOT KNOW what the taxes were that the House Ways and Means Committee have already voted on.  

PEGGY NOONAN (Reagan speechwriter):  Let me ask Lawrence something.  I think what he said is so fascinating. But let me see if I understand it.  (Sigh.)  The plan, to the extent it exists among the Democrats at this point would contain a 35% sur-charge on, what is it, Lawrence?  The worth of an insurance policy?

LAWRENCE O’DONNELL:  This is already written.  It’s been released IN PRINT BY MAX BAUCUS.  The President went out in his speech to Congress and simply said, “I am endorsing 100% the Baucus plan.”  

It’s NOT an Obama plan.  It’s the Baucus plan. THE BAUCUS PLAN IS ALREADY IN PRINT.  

Yes, Peggy, I am going to say it again:  NO REPUBLICAN HAS TOLD YOU THIS.   And Republican senators have participated in the negotiation of this.  This was John Kerry’s idea in the Finance Committee.  This is now winning the day in the Finance Committee.  A 35% tax on health care plans that are worth more than $8,000 for an individual.  Yours, Peggy, is worth more than $8,000.  Or $21,000 for a family.  The Scarborough family plan is worth more than that.  Anybody whose plan [is worth more than $8,000 per year, which most health insurance plans are] ….

[Cross-talk]

JOE SCARBOROUGH:  Hollywood boy, you’re going after me … and …

O’DONNELL:  Let me just tell you about my plan.  I’ll tell you about my plan.  My plan is the WRITERS GUILD OF AMERICA [BRONWYN's NOTE: Remember that the WGA is a UNION (!)].  This particular 35% tax WILL DEVASTATE MY OWN HEALTH CARE PLAN.  

Now, I’m doing well.  I can afford what it’s going to do to my plan.  IT’S GOING TO REDUCE THE BENEFITS OF MY PLAN BY 35%.

But there are members of the Writers Guild who make $50,000 a year.  Some of them $35,000 a year, some $40,000 a year.  THEIR health care plan is as valuable as mine.  It is a very rich plan.   It’s richer than the Scarborough family plan.  Okay?  But it’s for people in that UNION.  It’s a UNION plan. AND EVERYONE IN THAT UNION GETS IT.  

THIS WILL CUT THE BENEFITS of their health care plan BY 35%.  

Now, they’re all Hollywood liberals. We all are. We all might be in favor of the 35% legislation, if if does that because it helps out other people.

My point is simply this: Eric Cantor (R-Va.) has never come on this show and told you about it. There’s not a single Republican who’s told you about it. They spend all their time deciding whether there are or not “death panels” and whether Joe Wilson was right or wrong. That’s what they’re wasting their time on.

PATRICK BUCHANAN: Lawrence, that raises the question. The plan you described, which you say is Max Baucus’s plan in its gestation and its coming out, that plan cannot pass the Congress of the United States, can it? [Cross-talk.]

O’DONNELL: That plan has been PUBLIC FOR A WEEK and you’ve not heard a single Republican say anything about these elements. The President endorsed specifically that in one sentence in his speech the other night.

They call these things “fees” instead of “taxes.” They’ll all be collected by the I.R.S. I think we know what those are.

But, look, my point is this: That the more they don’t talk about the particulars of the bill, the more the Democrats are winning. That’s the way this legislation works. And the Republicans have never … they’ve never bothered to do the homework of what’s publicly released and available about what’s in these bills. And I’m not sure if these guys are too lazy that they’re never going to do their homework.

[THERE WAS SOME CHATTER THAT I DIDN'T TRANSCRIBE.]

SCARBOROUGH: We thank Lawrence for reading the bill so we don’t have to but now it’s very easy for me to campaign against my Blue Dog Democratic opponents, saying, “My opponent wants to cut Medicare. He wants your family to pay 35% more for health care.”

I mean, my god, that is … forget “Death Panel” … that [the 35% SURTAX] is the DEATH KNELL FOR ANY SOUTHERN POLITICIAN WHO’S A DEMOCRAT.

[There was more chatter that I didn't transcribe.]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

MY NOTES TO YOU, Dear Readers:

I transcribed the above by playing and pausing my DVR player. WHY did I do that? Because MSNBC did not post the video of this critically important discussion on its site.

Last week, Lawrence O’Donnell also appeared on Morning Joe to dissect Obamacare, and the same thing happened. He hammered Obama’s health care plan — HE HAMMERED BOTH THE PLAN AND OBAMA — and MSNBC did not post the video.

YES. We all know that Lawrence O’Donnell is a Democrat. A liberal Democrat. Yes, we also all know that O’Donnell was a producer of West Wing, wrote many of the story lines and had a hand in many scripts. We also know that O’Donnell is an actor on an HBO dramatic series.

But what many of us do not know is that O’Donnell was, for many years, a SENIOR staffer in the U.S. Senate. From Wikipedia:

[O'Donnell] was the Democratic Chief of Staff of the United States Senate Committee on Finance from 1993 through 1995. In 1992, he was Chief of Staff of the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.

Unfortunately, the Wikipedia biography is very incomplete. O’Donnell has far more experience than that one entry describes. For example, he led the effort in the 1990s to trim the fat from the Medicare budget, and became intimately familiar with every section of that huge budget.
 
I have screamed at my TV set many, many times when O’Donnell made some infuriating remark when he was a guest or host on some TV show. However, I always listen to him — particularly when he’s discussing “HOW DO WE PAY FOR THIS BILL?” — because he has expertise that most TV commentators do not have.

I’ve heard him describe how he went through the entire Medicare budget — line by line — during the Clinton years, and how he looked everywhere for any way he could find to trim Medicare’s costs.

Oh, how I wished I’d been able to transcribe for you his appearance on ast week’s Morning Joe when he DESTROYED OBAMA’S INSISTENCE that the plan can be paid for by cutting waste and getting rid of fraud. He pointed out that politicians pull that rabbit out of their hats all the time and that anyone who’s “in the know” will laugh raucously because it’s a joke amongst insiders and it only works on the most naive or ignorant citizens.

One more thing: O’Donnell has not been afraid to take Obama to task when he’s deserved it. I’m sure that O’Donnell voted for Obama, but he has not lost his senses completely.

I pray that there were some Republicans listening today and that they’ll heed O’Donnell’s criticisms.

And I hope that all of you will share this hot info with everyone you know.

  • Ginger

    Ah ha! It will change! Question @ 2:17.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c2UULIgCQg

    • Ginger

      BTW – Thank you for the info.

    • Prime Obot

      I think perhaps the reason that Republicans and others aren’t outraged about this enormous tax is that this entire blog item is wildly inaccurate. Bronwyn is proposing that Senator Baucus has secretly come up with a health care plan that features some of the most drastic taxation ever levied on a U.S. corporation. This from a Senator who is well known to the best friend the health insurance industry has in the Senate. A huge new tax that the Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee, all of whom receive millions from the same industry, have not seen fit to protest in any way.

      Sheer and utter fantasy.

      • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

        “Bronwyn is proposing that Senator Baucus has secretly come up with a health care plan that features some of the most drastic taxation ever levied on a U.S. corporation.”

        You might want to reread this – it is O’Donnell who is saying it, not Bronwyn.

        • Prime Obot

          I don’t believe O’Donnell said anything of the sort. See my post below — there is zero chance that Baucus’ bill will be anything like it’s being described here. Most notably, the odds of the Baucus bill containing a public option are ZERO.

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy
            • Prime Obot

              All right, I grant the point. A tax like that makes so little sense, especially coming from Baucus, who is well known to be in the insurance industry’s back pocket, that there must be some aspect of this whole game that none of us understand. At any rate, his plan is DOA, stands no chance of being adopted by the joint House/Senate committee that will write the real bill, and you shouldn’t make the mistake of confusing the Baucus bill with Obama’s plan. They aren’t the same.

              But I do apologize for doubting you, Bronwyn. That is a bizarre revelation about Baucus’ upcoming plan.

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            If I hear Lawrence O’Donnell harp about his health plan being taxed at 35% one more time, I think I’ll scream.

            http://www.mydd.com/story/2009/9/9/195840/5412

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            Bob: I need help understanding. I’ve been paying attention, yet what I’m hearing from the likes of the pundits and Lawrence O’Donnell has me confused. For the last three weeks, O’Donnell seems to be on the opposition side. In Obama’s speech on Wednesday, O’Donnell reported that Obama killed the public option and proclaimed that he was adopting the Max Baucus bill. I didn’t hear that, and I’ve even re-read the speech looking for that part. Also, this morning on Scarborough’s show, Lawrence O said that Obama’s “plan” will put a 35% tax on all cadillac plans (which he defined as those worth more than $8,000) which would effectively cut benefits to subscribers by that same percentage. Can you explain?

            http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2009/09/good_news_frust.html

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            Heard Lawrence O’Donnell say this morning that the Senate Finance Committee has approved a provision for the Baucus health care plan to include a 35% surtax on health insurance plans valued at more than $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families. This will affect many more people than just millionaires if it gets passed.

            http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200909140021

            • Ellen D

              Just getting new quotes now for our company. Families at our pretty top of the line coverage are rated at about $1,400. a month.
              Don’t know what kind of coverage you’d get for $21,000. a year. I haven’t even seen anything that crazy high.
              Congressmen perhaps?

              • Prime Obot

                I made this point below: to act like these rates are normal plans for middle class people is simply inaccurate.

              • allimom99

                Ellen, that is almost 17,000/year – not that far off. If passed, I’d expect the rate hike to make it hit the bar.

      • Prime Obot

        To elaborate, here is the reality: Baucus is the Senate’s most prominent insurance company stooge. His bill constitutes an egregious giveaway to that industry by forcing 40 million uninsured Americans to sign up for crappy, expensive, unreliable private industry plans without including any kind of private option whatsoever to hold prices down. His bill is madness and will never pass any other committee.

        What is funny about Bronwyn’s post is that she proposes that Baucus wants to massively tax private industry in order to drive them out of business so the public option can take over. But according to all reports, including his own public statements, Baucus’ bill will not contain any kind of public option whatsoever.

        This diary is just silly. Do not expect to see any video or transcript because the odds of Laurence O’Donnell having said anything like what Bronwyn reports are very, very low.

        • pm317

          Oh, stupid, stupid (I learned that word from your master) Obot,.. check all the comments and links (if you can read) above from AGI. She is trying to educate you, if you can read.

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            I think he already ran away. Typical bot attack – run in, take a big verbal dump, and run away.

            • pm317

              Fantastic response on your part.

              • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

                hehe

                Hi PM!

            • Ferd Berfle

              That’s called a “hit-an-run” or sniper troll. Cowards, all.

              • Prime Obot

                Ferd, I have hung around to exchange jibes with you many times over the last few weeks. Why on Earth would you think I’m suddenly intimidated? There are people on here whose comments are worth reading, who actually address issues. You are not one of them. You are an insult-bot and I’ve never once read a comment from you that wasn’t either witless praise for one of your NQ buddies or witness insults aimed at people like me. So spare me.

            • Ferd Berfle

              That’s called a “hit-and-run” or sniper troll. Cowards, all.

              • Prime Obot

                I just noticed this note. You’re calling me a coward now? Well, I’m willing to debate you, or any member of NQ, including Larry Johnson, in any forum, online or off, public or private, that you care to name. I am willing to answer any question that anyone here has. I am willing to discuss any topic, anytime. And I will do so without reveling in ad hominum insults, like you.

                Don’t you dare call anyone a coward unless you know them, Ferd. And trust me, you know nothing of me. The degree to which I am not intimidated by your trying-too-hard almost-a-writer vocabulary and trying-too-hard almost-funny insults would stagger you.

            • Prime Obot

              Uh, that’d be a no. I was giving my daughter a dinner and a bath. I already admitted an hour ago that Bronwyn’s reporting appears to be accurate. Very odd. I have no idea what a provision like that would be doing in a Baucus bill, but so it is. As I said before, though: Baucus’ bill is meaningless. Obama just wants to get something (anything) out of the Senate Finance Committee, so that the bills can move into joint committee and a unified bill can emerge. That is where you will learn what Congress will really be voting on.

              Please spare me, though, the notion of my being intimidated by the towering repartee of NoQuarter. If you only knew. ;)

              • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

                well, you might be willing to stick around and argue forever, but you would be amazed at the many we get that just dump and run.

        • Ferd Berfle

          Holy crap, goob. Your dreck isn’t worth the electrons used to create it. Stop wasting our time and your two remaining brain cells in a futile attempt at convincing us this POS legislation will save the world. You believe in unicorns and Obama and we get that. But that doesn’t mean we have to believe in them, too. All we ask is that you take your comments and yourself back to obamaworld and leave the serious discussions for those of us who actually think about the future.

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            • Prime Obot

              You think about the future? Ferd, I gotta say, I have seen previous little evidence of that. You think about gushing over your friends and dreaming up insults for outsiders. If you have any thoughts on actual political issues, I’ve missed them.

        • http://! stodgie

          hey prime, did you take classes in stupid or is natural?

      • TeakWoodKite

        Yahooooo! It’s Prime Obot time were the odds are shear to utter and the payoffs are in fantasies.

        Senator Baucus has secretly come up with a health care plan that features some of the most drastic taxation ever levied on a U.S. corporation

        If O’Donnell says it’s in there and he states that Republicans were in those negotiations and the “Plan” has been in print for a week, that makes it a secret. It’s called hiding in plain site. Or for the incurious, ignorance.

        What makes ya think Bacus, who only a fool would not see the size of his bulge in the pocket of the health care industry, would not want much scrutiny?

        Fantasy is thinking middle management at SEIU will take this on their backs.

        I saw the 8% and had an exchange with a poster several weeks back.

        What is fantasy, is believing BO has ANY kind of plan.

        • Prime Obot

          You don’t get it, Teak. My question is, since we agree that Baucus is in the pocket of the health care industry, why on Earth would he be trying to sneak through a huge tax on the health care industry? Either the law as written would benefit them overall, regardless of this new tax (by driving another 40 million captive customers into their arms, for instance, while not adding any significant new regulations preventing them from rejecting expensive claims, cancelling sick people’s insurance, etc.), or this tax isn’t intended to survive the House/Senate conference. You folks need to remember that whatever law gets passed out of the Senate Finance Committee isn’t becoming law, and isn’t intended to become law. It is intended as political posturing and an opening salvo in the upcoming negotiations between the House and the Senate. And neither bill bears the direct fingerprints of Obama. The President has not had any major, direct influnece over any of the now six bills that have been reported out of committee (well, maybe he had significant influence on some of the House bills, which are the best we’ve seen so far and hopefully contain more of Obama’s priorities). His influence will now be seen in the negotiations over the final bill. Now is when the rubber meets the road. What does everyone here actually want to see in the final bill? Are any of you actually willing to answer simple honest questions without the incessant rain of insults?

          • Katmoon

            Well prime when you use identifying terms such as “you folks” and “you people”, what exactly do you think you are projecting-a respectful, and earnest effort to have a conversation?

            Are any of you actually willing to answer simple honest questions without the incessant rain of insults?You folks need to …,

            Those are command language- words telling people your rules for thinking and conversing; y which are easily understood by posters here; further you are either a west coaster, which explains your time frame for posting responses at 1:30 and two in the morning or you prefer to respond without engaging.Finally, you also contradict yourself saying that bronwyn’s story is silly, then saying later in argument you agree with it.

            For myself you come here and might as well say, “stupid people listen up, I have answers and you must know them and if you don’t agree or let me insult you, then you are insignificant, and I can insult you in any fashion I choose, but you are held to a standard that is only known to me. It is like e the apology epidemic; which is an immature and insincere way to get away with purposefully trampling on people, then having an expectation of forgiveness, or worse acknowledgment of importance. At least here we don’t play hide and seek verbally. I for one have no issue with owning my “ugliness” in posts, as civil discourse I reserve for those who engage likewise.

            • Prime Obot

              Good points, Katmoon, if you’re still listening. Thanks for the cordial response. I must confess that I get defensive and then arrogant when I post on this site. But of course the fact that any time I post I automatically get called stupid, a loser, ignorant, a bot, a coward, etc., might have something to do with that.

      • Ginger

        I disagree. The 912 march of at least 1,286,000 (from USA Today) was as much about protesting obamacare as it was about taxes. People aren’t stupid. They know it’s one in the same.

  • carolhaka

    Sell Air Force 1,2 and 3.

    That ought to pay for it.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

  • Peggy Sue

    How many of us are paying less than $8 grand per annum for health care? My husband and I pay $6800+ per year [on his plan] and then the company matches. On top of that we have a medical health fund to cover expenses that fall outside our coverage–about $3000-4800 per year [we try to estimate what our our of pocket expenses will be since the fund is pretaxed, use it or lose it].

    So, let’s say on a “healthy year,” our total expense is $16,600 [because regardless of out-of-pocket or not, that company-matched money is a reduction in salary]. Add 35% to that and we’re into the $22,500 range.

    And “this” is reform? Give me a bloody break!

    Add mandates and fines to this monster?

    I’ve had it. Time for a frigging revolt!!!

    • Peggy Sue

      PS: My husband just informed me that what “we” pay represents 20-25% of what the company pays [he does the benefit calculations].

      This is a Fortune 500 company. And for small business?

      Kiss it goodbye!

      We are so screwed!

  • Docelder

    A THIRTY-FIVE PERCENT SURTAX ON HEALTH CARE PLANS that are worth more than eight thousand dollars a year.

    Which is all plans that include family coverage. I defy somebody to find a decent family coverage plan that includes hospitalization and medicines for less than $8000.

    • Bronwyn’s Harbor

      You get it. Thank god.

      I’m looking at the comments and am stunned that people aren’t outraged and commenting like mad. Peggy Sue sees it too, which is consolation.

      Think of it another way: Tax any corporation 35% on its PRODUCTS on top of all the other taxes it pays, and I defy you to

      1) tell me how that business will stay in business for long, and/or

      2) tell me how that is not a transfer from capitalism to socialism (a term I don’t use lightly).

      • Peggy Sue

        Bronwyn said:

        “tell me how that is not a transfer from capitalism to socialism (a term I don’t use lightly).”

        For all Obama’s big winning smiles and grand words, that’s exactly what it is–redistribute the wealth. This man and this Congress is “not” well-meaning.

        And here I thought Glenn Beck was basically an over-the-top nutzoid.

        When the people who appear to be crazed start making sense? We are in deep, deep trouble!

        • TeakWoodKite

          Glenn Beck was basically an over-the-top nutzoid.

          Even if is/was , would the content of his presentation of late be of less value?

          This will drive the next week’s tea party.

          Bronwyn’s Harbor, off to read it.

          I am not sure it is correct one O’Donnell was referring to or the one from a few months back.

          Bronwyn’s Harbor thanks. My question is about the public entities like k-12 universitys and the like, these public institutions are in the same market place as private companies.

          • TeakWoodKite

            oops missed the close tag sorry.

          • Peggy Sue

            Teakwood said:

            “Glenn Beck was basically an over-the-top nutzoid.

            Even if is/was , would the content of his presentation of late be of less value?”

            The answer is, “no.” Beck’s current exposes are, if anything, an indictment of the MSM’s disgusting failure.

            I will be circumspect from this day forward in calling anyone “nutzoid.”

        • Prime Obot

          My God! You people!

          First of all, why are you even talking about Obama? This isn’t his bill; it is the Senate Finance Committee’s bill.

          Second, the Baucus bill doesn’t tax all health plans over 8k; it taxes all individual plans over 8k and family plans over 21k. Kind of a big difference. You aren’t taxing these companies’ overall profits 35%, you are simply taxing their profits on certain gold-plated marquee insurance plans by that amount.

          Third, since it is well known that Baucus is the biggest ally the insurance companies have on Capitol Hill, why on Earth would he be trying to write into law a tax that would destroy their businesses? Doesn’t the sheer absurdity of what you are saying strike you at all?

          • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ American Girl in Italy

            Do you bother reading these posts before you just come screaming and running to defend obama?

            LAWRENCE O’DONNELL: This is already written. It’s been released IN PRINT BY MAX BAUCUS. The President went out in his speech to Congress and simply said, “I am endorsing 100% the Baucus plan.”

      • Ani

        Thank you so much, Bronwyn, for this important story. I will call all my respresentatives and pass this info around right away.

        I have to tell you though, I am very discouraged. Every time I call my Senators’ and Congressman’s office, they just shine me on. I never get the feeling that any of my concerns are treated with respect.

        Do you think any newspaper would pick this up?

      • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

        It is dinner time, so maybe most people are tied up. Thank you very much for the transcript and post. It’s a little too shocking for words.

    • Ellen D

      Wasn’t $8000. the single rate? $21,000. for families?

      • Prime Obot

        Ah. That makes sense. Any policy above those numbers is truly a gold-plated policy. Taxes on those policies will be much less onerous. Still kind of pointless, though, in the grand scheme of things.

        • TeakWoodKite

          Do you ever make sense? You sure you are not pointless in the “grand scheme of things”?

          • Prime Obot

            Yes, I frequently make sense. What is pointless is all the reflexive insults. They do give the site a distinctive flavor, though. Ugly, but distinctive.

        • allimom99

          Not really, Prime. Premiums vary WILDLY from state to state. In addition, there are high risk pools (as here in CA) where the premium for a very minimal plan reaches these numbers. I have friends who are paying over $30k/year for a very average plan – they had preexisting conditions. Nothing to keep the ins. cos. from continuing to ream these folks in the proposal.

  • Wisewoman

    This is what happens when the country puts two know nothing presidents (Bush II & Obama) into office back to back. The man doesn’t know anything so, just like during the primaries (I agree with Hillary) he goes along with other people ideas. He does not have any ideas of his own. This funding idea is as bad as taking 1/2 trillion dollars from medicare.

    • NoBamaNoWay

      correct; he is a tool, and that’s exactly why the powers-that-be got him elected.

  • HARP

    So Bots……..How do like socialism so far?

    You thought it was going to free…..right?

    Still room for you at the next tea party.

    • Prime Obot

      I wouldn’t know, HARP. The overall tax rate of the median American household is lower today than it was when Bush left office, due to the middle-class tax cuts that were part of the Obama stimulus package. His regulation of the banking industry is generally thought to be pathetically nonexistent (there are PUMAs trashing Obama for being a sold-out corporate shill just as there are other PUMAs trashing him for being a commie; nobody seems to mind the glaring contradiction). The vast transfers of wealth, far from being the transfers from private companies to the public good that are indicative of socialism, have been from the public good (trillions in tax dollars) to private companies (all the “too big to fail” banks and brokerages and insurance companies and car manufacturers). All the economic leaders that Obama has chosen and left in place — Bernanke, Geithner, Summers, et al — are well known Wall Street super-capitalists, and every one of their moves has been to protect their fellow super-capitalists’ wealth, power, freedom and independence. Hardcore leftists are in utter despair over Obama’s failure to take advantage of this opportunity to fundamentally reshape the relationship between the financial world and the rest of the country.

      So, HARP, your comment about socialism strikes me as just utterly pointless. We are, as we have always been, laughably far from anything truly resembling socialism in this country. And Obama has done absolutely nothing to change that. I think you are mistaking deficit spending for socialism. As a deficit spender, my man Barack is a champion, and that is very sad, but any incoming president, facing the imminent collapse of the global financial system, would have done the same thing. And the fact that a mere eight months after he took office, the chairman of the Fed is announcing that the recession is over, offers significant evidence that Obama made the right call (as did Bush last fall, when he did the same thing).

      I wish there were more people in this community who would seriously address my comments. Oh well.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Bronwyn, HOLY SHIT!!!!! This is just remarkable. We already pay taxes on my health care coverage through my partner’s company since we cant be legally married anyway, but still, this is staggering!!

    THANK YOU so much for taking the time and effort to transcribe this for us, and for watching MSNBC so we don’t have to. You’re a champion!!!

  • Just Me

    LAWRENCE O’DONNELL? A true expert? Right and so is Santa Claus about the North Pole and the Easter Bunny about hiding eggs…. Please another TV Analyst ….

    If O’Donnell is a factual source I rather believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny!

    Right now there is nothing written in stone about anything on Health Care. Give it a couple of more weeks before you start throwing stones…..

    • Ferd Berfle

      Right now there is nothing written in stone about anything on Health Care. Give it a couple of more weeks before you start throwing stones…..

      You’re right–it’s not written in stone but in red ink. Moreover, we don’t have the luxury of “a couple of more weeks” and no one should waste perfectly good stones on it.

      It is terribly written garbage that should be hauled off to the nearest licensed, monitored landfill and buried with the rest of the hazardous and toxic waste.

      • Just Me

        Right now what is written is written in PENCIL…who care about the color…

        Lets see what goes into conference and or the mark up annnnd we have plenty of time to kill the bill if we don’t like the final legislation… plenty of time….

        • Ferd Berfle

          Let’s assume merely for the sake of argument that you are correct. It still doesn’t work that way. The House and Senate may scrub their bills until they positively glow. But the riders attached thereto will be problem children. And then the Senate-House joint committees will add more manure to it until it reads just like it did before the individual scrubbings. And it will all be blessed as revenue-neutral, which is the really big lie waiting in the wings. And then That One will have a great party with hundred dollar steaks, arugula, and will hand out his likeness in “round-tuit” to each House and Senate member. So when, exactly will public criticism be listened to?–when THEY get a “round tuit”.

          You’re for it, that is self-evident But, as I said, those of us who think this bill is a budget buster and will exacerbate the system’s current problems don’t have time to quibble with such trifles as pencil, pen, red ink, or stone.

          • Prime Obot

            Why do you think this bill will exacerbate the present problems? And which bill are you referring to? At last count there were seven bills: 3 from the House, 3 from the Senate, and the plan Obama described last week, in general but important terms. The 7 bills have tremendous range between them in terms of policy. Yet you speak of “this bill” as though there were one.

            Which bill are you referring to, and why? And how will that bill exacerbate our present problems?

    • Ani

      But I think the point is whatever is in this 1,500 page monstrosity, a lot of people are mystified as to what’s in it and I’m talking about Congress here. If Obama is saying he endorses the Baucus plan and that is in it, doesn’t that bother you?

      There is no tran sparency. How do we know what’s going to wind up in this thing if most of Congress cannot even explain it. They certain ly were not able to at any of these town halls in August. Why does anything need to be so voluminmous and convoluted in the first place?

      Clearly Obama knows nothing about the economy or health care and outsources all of this. Does this in and of itself not worry you?

      It worries me.

  • pm317

    Aha, now what Obama was talking about comes into focus. Remember when he said how those taking out tonsils or unnecessary amputations or pills versus something else, what he was saying was that consumption is too much. Now, to cut consumption he is going to tax it. But since this is done blindly and across the board instead of a needs-based plan from the provider for each individual, it will have bad repercussions. He is forcing people to self-ration or pay the tax if you’re indulgent. But the problem is for many it may not be indulgence (as he thinks it is).

    Also Bacchus plan is going to cut federal funding for abortions. So Obama is throwing some red meat to his republican friends. I wonder how the lefties feel about that.

    • Katmoon

      It will also cut into what is considered necessary medication and what is not. Wow, I can’t wait to see how they will cut Humera from 12,000 a year; oh I know they will see what coverage I have tax us on that, giving me less income to pay for required meds; those medications will have to cost more because, God knows rheumatoid arthritis is just an old persons disease. the medications will cost even more, if they are allowed. Yippy Skippy.

      Cue the music for the Great White North: “cuckoo cukaroo”!

      • ~~JustMe~~

        Rheumatoid Arthritis can strike at any age and is can be very debilitating depending on the severity. We have a very close friend with it and I can tell you he’s only 40 and has had 4 ops already over the past 6yrs.
        So he was 32 at the time.

        Plus has another op scheduled soon for his feet.

        UGH Katmoon its mind-blowing I cannot think straight!! It’s crazy just crazy.

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  • Nobama4me

    I distinctly remember O’Donnell, before the primaries, stating on one of the MSNBO shows (I used to watch them a lot before I realized what tools they all were)that he was “sick and tired of having his Party hijacked by the extreme left” (his words, not mine), so he has known what the DNC has become for a long,long time. Still, he said nothing during the primaries and the GE, therefore he lost any credibility he once had with me.

  • maryann

    Ah well Obama and the Senate and the Congress don’t give one shit what we think nor want. They’re running the show, they’re not representing us any more, we are a nuisance and annoyance and a source for their wealth and power.
    No wonder the French put Lou-ee’s head on a spike.

    Vive la revolution!

  • Sassy

    I happened to see the episode of which you speak Bronwyn…last weeks.
    As to the other facts you present, hell-o, where has everyone been while the reasons that companies will drop coverage have been presented?
    Enter the government option in disguise!

  • cathnealon

    The One has never hid his agenda-it’s in his books, it’s on video from 2000 and before, he stated it loud and clear all during the campaign about redistributing the wealth, and “fundamentally transforming America’ and his last 8 months of America bashing. In order to achieve his goal he must destroy all private enterprise, he must raid the treasury, he must steal the money from corporations–please this isn’t rocket science–study the Cuban revolution with the Cstro brothers, study Hussein in Iraq, study Lenin and the Bolsheviks in post-czarist Russia–they must eradicate all private property and businesses–69.5 million voters “acted stupidly” on November 4th and now the rest of us are going to pay for it–may God help us all.

  • tango

    Ok, I’ve been looking and I think one thing needs clarification – the Baucus plan would require insurers to pay a tax of 35 percent of the portion of the premium exceeding $8,000 for singles and $21,000 for families for any plan. Not a 35% tax on the WHOLE premium.

    So the insurance company sells a $10,000 premium plan for a single person, they will have to pay 35% ($700) for the $2000 premium amount above the $8000 threshold. You can bet they’ll pass those costs onto employers or employees.

    As some have said, these so called “cadillac” plans aren’t cadillac ones at all in regards to giving substantially better benenfits. Some believe that those with the more expensive plans are not always receiving more generous benefits, but merely pay higher premiums because they are employed by companies that have an older workforce or workforce that faces greater health risks.

    • Peggy Sue

      I can tell you as a witness, tango–if you don’t have one of these “cadillac plans” and you have a catastrophic event, you will go bankrupt. Overnight.

      Been there, done that.

      Unless, of course, you’re a mega-millionaire.

      And even with the higher-priced plans? Be prepared to fight tooth and nail for every miserable charge-off. That’s why I was outraged when the suggestion was made that our vets with catastrophic injuries should rely on their “private insurance.”

      Get real! The ordinary managed care does not cut it. No way, no where.

      I spent as much time arguing with lousy insurance clerks as I did in-hospital time with my son, a brain trauma patient.

      The system sucks! And this so-called reform? Sucks even worse.

  • http://sarainitalyblog.blogspot.com/ sarainitaly

    For me, if I understand correctly, it is outrageous, but also confusing. And we have heard SO many lies from the left, it is just hard to process all the information.

    Does the tax hit the consumer, or the insurance companies? If it is a tax for the insurance companies, they have to pay 35% on every policy they write?

    So, basically, that is a 35% cut in profit for the insurance company, and a 35% windfall for the government? Hmmmm if I understand this right, then perhaps that is how they hope to try and fund a portion of the reform?

    Are the arguing that because of the tax, insurance companies will reduce your benefits by 35% to cover the tax?

    Or is this tax on every family? If you pay $8000 annually for a plan, you will pay 35% on top of that in taxes?

    My brain is exploding.

    • Ferd Berfle

      Why these aren’t taxes. They’re merely handling fees, surcharges, and enhancements to revenue so the government can effectively oversee the healthcare industry. Haven’t you seen how *well* this oversight has worked with the FDA, the CPSC, the SEC, the FAA, and many other TLA and FLA organizations neatly stacked in a pyramidal structure with That One, BOTUS at the top.

      Those in this administration must think we’re as dumb as the ones who voted them into office. And even if they didn’t think we were as dumb, they’d just say there’s only about 70,000 of us in the whole country.

      My brain is exploding, too.

    • Postulate

      The 35% is a “surcharge” on the insurance companies themselves, and it’s only on the portion of the plan above $8000. It’s not going to bankrupt or otherwise terrorize anybody. If it was, wouldn’t the insurance companies be saying something?

  • Babs

    My brain exploded during the primaries, now they’re working on my lower GI tract, a much more appropriate place for these people.

    How can unions support this? They have so called “cadillac” plans. Oh, let me guess, they’ll be exempt? What about federal employees? Also exempt?

    • Ferd Berfle

      Yes, indeed, babs.

      And there’s probably an ACORN plan, too, and the main reason why our resident squatter troll, above, is so on board with this POS legislation.

  • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

    Let’s see, taking Peggy Sue’s numbers, and considering
    1) the company makes up 3/4 of rest of the plan cost
    2) the tax starts and applies to the amount after the first $8000

    Their plan: $6800 plus about $4000 out-of-pocket
    Their company pays $20,400
    Total $31,200
    Take out $8000, tax of 35% on remainder = $8120 in new taxes between employee and company (And you know where it ultimately comes out of–the employee’s pocket.) Looks like Obamacare for you.

    Blech. I’m feeling sick.

    • MBC

      Me too. Pukey sick. What the hell can we do? They are ignoring us, they will pass this POS bill by October 15th and we will have to live with the consequences until we can get some reasonable representatives in there.

    • Peggy Sue

      Sonic: you can’t afford to feel sick.

      None of us can!

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    • MBC

      Hi Sonic,

      I copied your latest post from your site and sent it to 20 of my friends. Good post and great links. It is so difficult to keep up with this crap.

      • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

        YAY! That story on the CSPAN censorship really needs some distribution. Thank you!

  • jacksmith

    Why A Strong Public Option Is Essential – By jacksmith — Working Class

    Robert Reich explains the pubic option: http://bit.ly/dDYSJ http://robertreich.blogspot.com/

    John Garamendi on the Public Option and the Grassroots: http://bit.ly/TJMty

    It’s not just because more than two thirds of the American people want a single payer health care system. And if they cant have a single payer system 77% of all Americans want a strong government-run public option on day one (86% of democrats, 75% of independents, and 72% republicans). Basically everyone.

    It’s not just because according to a new AARP POLL: 86 percent of seniors want universal healthcare security for All, including 93% of Democrats, 87% of Independents, and 78% of Republicans. With 79% of seniors supporting creating a new strong Government-run public option plan, available immediately. Including 89% of Democrats, 80% of Independents, and 61% of Republicans, STUNNING!!

    It’s not just because it will lower cost. Because a strong public option will dramatically lower cost for everyone. And dramatically improved the quality of care everyone receives in America and around the World. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.

    It’s not just because it will save trillions of dollars and prevent the needless deaths of millions more of YOU, caused by a rush to profit by the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX!

    It’s not just because every expert in every field, including economist, and Nobel laureates all agree that free market based healthcare systems don’t work. Never have and never will. The US has the only truly free market based healthcare system in the World. And as you all know now, IT IS A DISASTER!

    It’s not just because providing or denying medically necessary care for profit motivations is wrong. Because it is WRONG! It’s professionally, ethically, and morally REPUGNANT!, Animalistic, VILE and EVIL.

    THE REASON THE PUBLIC OPTION IS ESSENTIAL:

    The public option is ESSENTIAL because over 200 million of you are trapped in the forest of the wolves. Which is the forest of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! With no way out except through needless inhumane suffering, and DEATH. While the wolves tear at your flesh, and rip you limb from lib. Then feast on your lifeless bodies like a dead carcase for transplant parts.

    At the most vulnerable times of your lives (when you were sick and hurting), millions of you have had to fight and loose cruel, but heroic battles. Fighting against the big guns of the DISGRACEFUL, GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX! in the forest of the wolves. All because you have no place else to go. You have no other CHOICE!

    But the PUBLIC OPTION will give you someplace safe to go. And it will give us someplace safe to take you. The public option will be your refugium (your refuge). Where the wolves cannot get at you when your down, hurting, and vulnerable. Where everyone who needs it can find rest, security, comfort and the care they need. Protected by the BIG GUNS of We The People Of The United States. THE MOST POWERFUL PEOPLE AND COUNTRY ON EARTH.

    This is why it is so critical that we do not lead another 50 million vulnerable, uninsured Americans into the forest of the wolves, without the protections of a Strong Government-run public option. We The People Of The United States MUST NOT LET THAT HAPPEN to any more of our fellow Americans. If healthcare reform does not contain a strong public option on day one. YOU MUST! KILL IT. Or you will do far more harm than good. And millions more will die needlessly. Rich, middle class, and poor a like.

    To those who would continue to obstruct good and true healthcare reform for the American people, and who seek to trap millions more vulnerable Americans in the forest of the wolves. We will continue to fight you. We are prepared to wage all out war against you, and will eagerly DESTROY! you. Time…is…UP! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! No Co-op’s! No Triggers! NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATES! without a Strong public option on day one.

    Healthcare reform can be the GREATEST! Accomplishment of our time and century. A time when future generations may say of us, that we were all, AMERICAS GREATEST GENERATIONS.

    BUT WE MUST ACT!

    I therefore call on all my fellow Americans and the peoples of the World. To join us in this fight so that we may finish becoming the better America that we aspire to be for everyone.

    SPREAD THE WORD!

    I have been privileged to be witness as many of you fought, and struggled to take your first breath, and your last breath on this earth. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Life is precious.

    Whatever the cost. WE! MUST SUCCEED.

    God Bless You My Fellow Human Beings

    jacksmith — Working Class

    No Triggers! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-rosenbaum/a-trigger-for-the-public_b_277910.html

    Triggers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/weve-seen-these-triggers_b_283583.html

    Krugman on heathcare (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/)

    Senator Bernie Sanders on healthcare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSM8t_cLZgk&feature=player_embedded)

    • MBC

      I call Bullshit!

    • HARP

      You are a fucking idiot. No wonder you want free heath care.

    • Ellen D

      Thank you, Jacksmith.

  • Texas Playwright

    I feel sick about all this health care/insurance stuff. Oh, wait, I can’t afford it. Never mind.

  • John Whittel

    if you think think this is not possible you are crazy obama care will not only KILL 100 of thousands of Americans Prematurely It will kill 10 of thousands of foreign people who seek american medical care. This is not the option we as american want.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEBDTKnbrPo

    Spread this around if you care. Mark my words if Obama Care is passed MANY MANY people will die.This is a lie. This health care reform is a LIE. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

  • tango

    I posted this in the other healthcare thread too. Whether you agree with the doctors or not, or IBD’s sampling or scientific practices, it does bring up some points to consider.

    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199

  • helenk

    My representative Mary Bono-Mack had a telephone conference call tonight about the health care issue.
    I did not get a chance to ask her about this on the phone but I did e-mail her a link to this post. I requested a reply. I hope she reads this and understands the problems this causes.
    I also asked her to vote to stop funds to acorn and to protect the two young people who did the filming.

    Maybe it will make a difference.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • glennmcgahee

    The worst part of this whole mess is that before a plan has even been finalized to vote on, Obummer has made a deal with the pharmacutical companies that allows them to continue their price-fixing/gouging in exchange for advertizing dollars that will be used to support a plan we and they, supposedly have not seen.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Wow, no, we didn’t know that, did we? 35 percent tax on private insurance , thanks Dem’s for driving up cost for your special interests.

    You know, I looked, in 1994 I paid 16.00 biweekly for my health care and there was no such thing as deductables.

    Now I pay 15 times more, with higher costs and a tripled deductable. I can’t even get my Doctors visits covered by insurance because the deductable is so high, I’d have to go to the doc’s 3 times a year before they kick in. I will not let my hubby talk me in to insurance again next year, this is OUTRAGEOUS. And this is the negotiating Bill Boy Richarson’s folks do for state bene’s.

  • Just Me

    Lookie here…If we can spent $60 billion on weapon systems that either never make it off the drawing board or are obsolete we can afford health care…

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