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	<title>Comments on: Should It Stay Or Should It Go?</title>
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	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/</link>
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		<title>By: Docelder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268581</link>
		<dc:creator>Docelder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268581</guid>
		<description>That is somewhat PeeWee Hermanesque. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is somewhat PeeWee Hermanesque. <img src='http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: sandi78</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268577</link>
		<dc:creator>sandi78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268577</guid>
		<description>No. The Reagan Library, which is in an absolutely stunning location and is worth visiting just to sit and enjoy the view, is not in the Mojave Desert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No. The Reagan Library, which is in an absolutely stunning location and is worth visiting just to sit and enjoy the view, is not in the Mojave Desert.</p>
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		<title>By: lightacandle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268576</link>
		<dc:creator>lightacandle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268576</guid>
		<description>At the time the members of the First Federal Congress voted to do this, many of those same members also owned slaves. 

Both of these issues were looked on favorably by those men.

Are they both okay with you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the time the members of the First Federal Congress voted to do this, many of those same members also owned slaves. </p>
<p>Both of these issues were looked on favorably by those men.</p>
<p>Are they both okay with you?</p>
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		<title>By: lightacandle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268574</link>
		<dc:creator>lightacandle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268574</guid>
		<description>The ACLU did NOT originate this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ACLU did NOT originate this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Sassy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268514</link>
		<dc:creator>Sassy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268514</guid>
		<description>So, how to explain that the House and Senate Chaplains open each session with prayer.
Each one also holds prayer in the Rotunda!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, how to explain that the House and Senate Chaplains open each session with prayer.<br />
Each one also holds prayer in the Rotunda!</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268457</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268457</guid>
		<description>Are you taking this constitution class in a religious setting/school?

There&#039;s an old adage:  History is made by those who write it.  Give it some thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you taking this constitution class in a religious setting/school?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an old adage:  History is made by those who write it.  Give it some thought.</p>
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		<title>By: lorac</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268456</link>
		<dc:creator>lorac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268456</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think this argument has anything to do with agnostics or atheists - unless, being on the outside looking in, we&#039;re more able to see how a certain religion is given more authoritative power than the others, labeled as &quot;the norm&quot; by its own proponents, and thereby relegating the others as not much more than an afterthought.  

This argument is between people of other religions, who want their dead to be represented by their own religious symbols, not another religion&#039;s cross.  Sounds American to me - &quot;To each her own&quot;, or &quot;Pro-choice&quot; - choose your own religious symbol for your memorial.  Why should the symbol of one religion be used for everybody?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think this argument has anything to do with agnostics or atheists &#8211; unless, being on the outside looking in, we&#8217;re more able to see how a certain religion is given more authoritative power than the others, labeled as &#8220;the norm&#8221; by its own proponents, and thereby relegating the others as not much more than an afterthought.  </p>
<p>This argument is between people of other religions, who want their dead to be represented by their own religious symbols, not another religion&#8217;s cross.  Sounds American to me &#8211; &#8220;To each her own&#8221;, or &#8220;Pro-choice&#8221; &#8211; choose your own religious symbol for your memorial.  Why should the symbol of one religion be used for everybody?</p>
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		<title>By: Docelder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268451</link>
		<dc:creator>Docelder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268451</guid>
		<description>People sometimes when they think of the Taliban get lost on the religion part of it. The religion is just rationalization for the totalitarian control. If the radical Islam didn&#039;t exist they would have invented it. To a point, I see what you are saying. Only the aclu would serve more like the radical religion... if we put it that way, the totalitarian control agent would be the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court decided to take this on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People sometimes when they think of the Taliban get lost on the religion part of it. The religion is just rationalization for the totalitarian control. If the radical Islam didn&#8217;t exist they would have invented it. To a point, I see what you are saying. Only the aclu would serve more like the radical religion&#8230; if we put it that way, the totalitarian control agent would be the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court decided to take this on.</p>
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		<title>By: rw</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268445</link>
		<dc:creator>rw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268445</guid>
		<description>Right. The cross memorial since 1934 did not infringe on OUR constitution and bill of rights until the ACLU decided it did. 

The giant Buddhas for hundreds of years looked out onto Afghan people with their Islamic religion without offense, until the Taliban arrived with their directives.

Tell me what the difference is, and do so without any valuative moral high ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. The cross memorial since 1934 did not infringe on OUR constitution and bill of rights until the ACLU decided it did. </p>
<p>The giant Buddhas for hundreds of years looked out onto Afghan people with their Islamic religion without offense, until the Taliban arrived with their directives.</p>
<p>Tell me what the difference is, and do so without any valuative moral high ground.</p>
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		<title>By: rw</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268443</link>
		<dc:creator>rw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:56:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268443</guid>
		<description>OK, then the government should donate the land for the cross memorial and form a partnership with private philanthropy to maintain it.

Holocaust Museum: How were the funds raised for the Museum&#039;s construction?

Built on land donated by the federal government and funded with more than 200,000 private donations, the Museum is the product of a strong partnership between the government and private philanthropy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, then the government should donate the land for the cross memorial and form a partnership with private philanthropy to maintain it.</p>
<p>Holocaust Museum: How were the funds raised for the Museum&#8217;s construction?</p>
<p>Built on land donated by the federal government and funded with more than 200,000 private donations, the Museum is the product of a strong partnership between the government and private philanthropy.</p>
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		<title>By: lightacandle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268387</link>
		<dc:creator>lightacandle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268387</guid>
		<description>William Steele was not a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and your information -- which is incorrect -- is based on a letter Steele wrote to his son many years later (in 1825). Steele claimed to have been told this story by Jonathan Dayton who had been a delegate.  The story is not accurate.  http://candst.tripod.com/franklin.htm

Here is the list of delegates (and Steele&#039;s name is not there, because he was not a delegate):  http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/marryff.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;Roger Sherman at once seconded Franklin’s motion. But Hamilton and several others feared that calling in a clergyman at so late a stage might lead the public to suspect dissensions in the Convention. To this Franklin countered that a measure of alarm out of doors might do as much good as ill. Williamson of North Carolina made the flat statement everyone knew the real reason for not engaging a chaplain: the Convention had no funds.

After all of this Franklin’s motion &lt;strong&gt;failed&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122174755AA9Z2WE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William Steele was not a delegate to the Constitutional Convention and your information &#8212; which is incorrect &#8212; is based on a letter Steele wrote to his son many years later (in 1825). Steele claimed to have been told this story by Jonathan Dayton who had been a delegate.  The story is not accurate.  <a href="http://candst.tripod.com/franklin.htm" rel="nofollow">http://candst.tripod.com/franklin.htm</a></p>
<p>Here is the list of delegates (and Steele&#8217;s name is not there, because he was not a delegate):  <a href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/marryff.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/marryff.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Roger Sherman at once seconded Franklin’s motion. But Hamilton and several others feared that calling in a clergyman at so late a stage might lead the public to suspect dissensions in the Convention. To this Franklin countered that a measure of alarm out of doors might do as much good as ill. Williamson of North Carolina made the flat statement everyone knew the real reason for not engaging a chaplain: the Convention had no funds.</p>
<p>After all of this Franklin’s motion <strong>failed</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122174755AA9Z2WE" rel="nofollow">http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081122174755AA9Z2WE</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ferd Berfle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268355</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferd Berfle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268355</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Does everything have to include any and everybody now? Is there no room for individual expression?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, Docelder, so long as reasonable people have a place to vent their frustrations, there is plenty of room for individual expression. Hell, we should all insist upon it. I think NQ comes as close as any I&#039;ve found in all my years of commenting (Yahoo, MSN, etc.). Don&#039;t fret--that&#039;s what the always-saying-nay  want you to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Does everything have to include any and everybody now? Is there no room for individual expression?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, Docelder, so long as reasonable people have a place to vent their frustrations, there is plenty of room for individual expression. Hell, we should all insist upon it. I think NQ comes as close as any I&#8217;ve found in all my years of commenting (Yahoo, MSN, etc.). Don&#8217;t fret&#8211;that&#8217;s what the always-saying-nay  want you to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferd Berfle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268348</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferd Berfle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268348</guid>
		<description>Crap. What I meant to type was, &quot;So long as there is no overt favoritism,...&quot;

Fumble fingers, again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crap. What I meant to type was, &#8220;So long as there is no overt favoritism,&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Fumble fingers, again.</p>
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		<title>By: Ferd Berfle</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268346</link>
		<dc:creator>Ferd Berfle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268346</guid>
		<description>Never a problem, RRRA. And I agree with you--the prohibition against the establishment of religion should not be construed to mean that government should work actively against religion. So long as their is no overt favoritism, I have no problem with crosses, Stars, Totems, Shrines, or any other religious icon or edifice. There are as many ways to the deity as there are people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never a problem, RRRA. And I agree with you&#8211;the prohibition against the establishment of religion should not be construed to mean that government should work actively against religion. So long as their is no overt favoritism, I have no problem with crosses, Stars, Totems, Shrines, or any other religious icon or edifice. There are as many ways to the deity as there are people.</p>
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		<title>By: Docelder</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/34962/should-it-stay-or-should-it-go/#comment-1268344</link>
		<dc:creator>Docelder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=34962#comment-1268344</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What “story” does a Christian cross say&lt;/blockquote&gt; You can feel the contempt for that cross in just those many words. This is what is fueling this battle for a lonely cross in the middle of nowhere... contempt for that for which it represents. The rest of the arguments are rationalization. But, I expect it will come down. As a few here gleefully retort... we evidently aren&#039;t a Christian nation. Never mind it is the dominant faith in this nation and never mind that cross in the desert doesn&#039;t exclude anybody from feeling about it anything they want to feel. Never mind it was the faith of the men who erected it... which is all that matters really. Nobody said it represents everybody... just those men who put it there. But some have as mush disdain for those men as they do for that cross. Neither the men or the cross represent some people. What I ask is so wrong with that? Does everything have to include any and everybody now? Is there no room for individual expression?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What “story” does a Christian cross say</p></blockquote>
<p> You can feel the contempt for that cross in just those many words. This is what is fueling this battle for a lonely cross in the middle of nowhere&#8230; contempt for that for which it represents. The rest of the arguments are rationalization. But, I expect it will come down. As a few here gleefully retort&#8230; we evidently aren&#8217;t a Christian nation. Never mind it is the dominant faith in this nation and never mind that cross in the desert doesn&#8217;t exclude anybody from feeling about it anything they want to feel. Never mind it was the faith of the men who erected it&#8230; which is all that matters really. Nobody said it represents everybody&#8230; just those men who put it there. But some have as mush disdain for those men as they do for that cross. Neither the men or the cross represent some people. What I ask is so wrong with that? Does everything have to include any and everybody now? Is there no room for individual expression?</p>
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