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More On Fort Hood, Sgt. Munley, And Others

We are learning more and more as the days pass since the horrific terrorist attack on Fort Hood this past week- yes, I said it – that’s what it is. What else do you call it when someone plots, plans, and carries out an attack on our soil but terrorism? Was not the Oklahoma City bombing terrorism? Regardless of any connections it now appears Hasan had in his Virginia mosque, or not, to try and spin this assault as anything else other than a terrorist attack is simply disingenuous. It makes one wonder just who it serves when people try to frame this as “Contact PTSD,” though PTSD is a very real consequence of war, or other traumatic experiences. But “Contact PTSD”? Enough of the excuses. From all that I have seen on this recently (link above), there were a number of red flags, a number of people making complaints about Hasan, concern over his anti-American rhetoric, and yet, for whatever (misguided) reasons, he was allowed to continue his practice.

And that brings us to this article, Heroes Took Huge Risks To Save Others. Not only are we learning more about Hasan as time passes by, but we are learning more about the actions of that tragic day on Fort Hood, and others who acted selflessly. No doubt, the big hero is Sgt. Munley, and I will get to her in just a minute Here is another hero:

Pfc. Marquest Smith, on his way to Afghanistan in January, was completing routine paperwork about a bee-sting allergy when the sounds erupted.

A loud popping noise. Moans. The sudden, urgent shout of “Gun!”

Smith poked his head over the cubicle’s partition and saw an extraordinary sight: An Army officer with two guns, firing into the crowded room.

The 21-year-old Fort Worth native quickly grabbed the civilian worker who’d been helping with his paperwork and forced her under the desk. He lay low for several minutes, waiting for the shooter to run out of ammunition and wishing he, too, had a gun.

After the shooter stopped to reload, Smith made a run for it. Pushing two other soldiers in front of him, he made it out of the Soldier Readiness Processing center — only to plunge into the building twice more to help the wounded.

Smith had survived the worst mass shooting on an American military base, a rampage that left 13 dead and 30 wounded, including the alleged shooter, Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

It could have been much worse, but for the heroics of Smith and others — including the diminutive civilian police officer who single-handedly took down Hasan.

Of course, that would be Sgt. Munley. More on her below as the picture of what happened on Fort Hood gets filled in. A big piece of that is we are getting some information on where the shooting began:

Decisive Action

At the processing center on the southern edge of the 100,000-acre base, soldiers returning from overseas mingled with colleagues filling out forms and undergoing medical tests in preparation for deployment.

Around 1:30 p.m., witnesses say a man authorities later identified as Hasan jumped up on a desk and shouted the words “Allahu Akbar!” — Arabic for “God is great!” He was armed with two pistols, one a semiautomatic capable of firing up to 20 rounds without reloading.

Packed into cubicles with 5-foot-high dividers, the 300 unarmed soldiers were sitting ducks (emphasis mine). Those who weren’t hit by direct fire were struck by rounds ricocheting off the desks and tile floor.

Let’s just reflect on that for a minute. Hasan chose an area in which the soldiers were close together. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. That’s pretty much what he did after he jumped up onto the desk and started firing. Just picture the logistics of that – man on desk firing on unarmed soldiers (only the MPs and contracted civilian police officers carry guns), 5 foot dividers, 300 soldiers. The potential for mass casualties was set in motion:

When he decided the shooter wasn’t close to being out of ammo, Smith made a dash for the door. He’d made it outside when he heard cries from within.

“I don’t want to die.”

“This really hurts.”

“Help me get out of here.”

Smith rushed back inside and found two wounded. He grabbed them by their collars and dragged them outside.

Around this time, Fort Hood Police Sgt. Kimberly Munley got the call of “shots fired.” The SRP isn’t on Munley’s beat; she was in the area because her vehicle was in the shop.

Munley, 34, was on the scene within three minutes.

Just over 5 feet tall, Munley is an advanced firearms instructor and civilian member of Fort Hood’s special reaction team. She had trained on “active shooter” scenarios after the April 2007 mass shooting at Virginia Tech. She didn’t wait for backup.

As she approached the squat, rectangular building, a soldier emerged from a door with a gunman in pursuit. The officer fired, and the uniformed shooter wheeled and charged.

Munley was hit at least three times in the exchange — twice through the left leg and once in her right wrist. Hasan was hit four times.

From the first shots to the last, authorities say the whole incident lasted less than 10 minutes.

Sgt. Munley’s fast response time, not waiting for backup (I wonder if she’ll get lectured about that?), and her willingness to put herself in harm’s way saved who-knows-how-many lives. Clearly, her training kicked in, and she did what she was trained to do. This article, Hero ‘Civilian Cops’ Emerge After Fort Hood Shooting: Sgt. Kimberly Munley Lost So Much Blood Doctors Feared She Wouldn’t Survive, goes into even more detail as to what Sgt. Munley did that day (H/T to American Girl in Italy for this article), as well as another police officer, Sgt, Mark Todd:

After Sgt. Kimberly Munley helped stop the Fort Hood massacre by shooting Major Nidal Malik Hasan several times, she collapsed from her wounds and doctors who treated her were afraid she wouldn’t survive.

“She was fading in and out of consciousness. She wasn’t saying much,” medic Francisco de la Serna, who began treating Munley when the shooting stopped, told ABC News.

Munley, a 34-year-old former soldier who became a civilian cop on the Fort Hood base, was shot twice in both legs during Thursday’s confrontation. Two powerful “cop killer” rounds allegedly fired by Hasan tore through her left thigh, exited and blasted through her right thigh as well. She was also struck in the wrist.

Sgt. Mark Todd, 42, a retired soldier who also works as a civilian police officer at Ford Hood, also engaged in a firefight with Hasan that lasted less than a minute, according to The Associated Press. Todd was not wounded.

Army officials say that an investigation is under way about whose bullets brought down Hasan as there was much confusion following the shooting. Munley’s supervisor initially credited her with the shot that stopped Hasan.

Todd told The Associated Press Saturday that he was unsure if Munley had wounded the suspect, because “once he started firing at me, I lost track of her.”

After firing his Beretta at Hasan, Todd said the suspect flinched, slid down against a telephone pole and fell on his back. Todd recalls hearing people say, “two more, two more.” He first thought they were referring to more shooters, but he realized that the bystanders were urging him to fire two more rounds, Todd said.

Todd said he approached the suspect and saw that he still had a gun in his hand, which he kicked away. Todd told the AP, “He was breathing, his eyes were blinking. You could tell that he was fading out. He didn’t say anything. He was just kind of blinking.”

Munley, the mother of two girls, was sped to Metroplex Hospital several miles away where doctors say she lost so much blood that they feared she would not make it.

I suppose we will have to wait to find out exactly whose bullet brought down Hasan – Munley’s or Todd’s, but there is no dispute that had she not started firing on Hasan, he would have inflicted more damage on the soldiers.

Her wounds were clearly severe, especially after being hit by “cop killer” bullets:

Munley proved to be as tough in the operating room as she was while confronting Hasan in their close-range shootout.

Dr. Kelly Matlock, who treated Munley at the Metroplex Hospital, said her first words in recovery were concern about Hasan’s victims.

“She opened her eyes and said, ‘Did anybody die?’ That’s what she said, ‘Did anybody die?’” Matlock said.

That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the make up and constitution of this woman. Her first thought, her first question, wasn’t about herself, but others. I am in awe.

Sgt. Munley got her question answered:

Munley now knows that the man she shot is alive, and that he is accused of killing 13 unarmed people and wounding 38.

Texas Gov. Rick Perry visited Munley in the hospital today and later described her as “understated.”

“She is a classic public servant who is not interested in anything other than getting on with her life,” Perry said.

Chuck Medley, the director of emergency services at Fort Hood, said many more would have died if Munley had not leaped into action.

“If she had not responded the way she had, we would have had an extremely high number of dead and injured,” Medley told ABC News Friday. “The number of lives that this person saved … We will probably never know. But there is a lot of ammunition left, a lot of magazines,” he said referring to what Hasan was allegedly carrying.

Uh, yeah. That, along with Hasan giving away his worldly goods, screams premeditation to me. No doubt about it.

While much of this has been covered already, the way in which this is written really paints a picture:

Sgt. Kimberly Munley’s Shootout With Major Nidal Malik Hasan

Medley described a scenario worthy of a Hollywood script. He said Munley, who is a member of the base’s SWAT team and a weapons expert, ran towards the gunfire and came upon Hasan when she rounded a corner and saw him pursuing a soldier who had already been wounded once.

“She fired on him twice and drew the attention toward her. He immediately spun around and charged her,” Medley said. “She fired a couple more rounds and fell back, continuing to fire.”

Despite getting struck three times by Hasan’s fusillade, Munley stayed upright and kept firing at the charging gunman.

Let’s stop right there. What kind of person is capable of doing this? What kind of person puts herself in the line of fire to save someone else? What kind of intestinal fortitude must this woman have to STAY UPRIGHT after being seriously hit, firing at the gunman?

I have a close friend who was a police officer at one time before he became a minister. I asked him that question – what makes some people run into danger, be it firefighters, police officers, military personnel, when everyone else is running away as fast as they can? What kind of courage and bravery must someone have to do something like Sgt. Munley? It is hard to fathom. Sure, many of us would like to THINK we would, but honestly – WHO would rush into this situation, size it up, and intentionally put herself in the line of fire to protect others? It is simply remarkable. This breed of human being is rare indeed.

At least according to this report, if it even matters at this point, it was Munley who brought Hasan down (as mentioned above, ballistics will have the final say):

“She struck him a couple times in the upper torso and he went down,” Medley said.

“When she rounded that corner she made a split-second decision to put her life at risk,” he said.

Lt. Gen. Robert Cone said Munley’s aggressive tactics averted even more carnage.

“She had been trained in active response,” Cone said. “They had rehearsed scenarios like this. Oftentimes, the idea is you would encircle the building and wait until you have more backup. What the belief is, if you act aggressively, to take the shooter out, you’ll have less fatalities.”

Munley acted aggressively, not waiting for backup. She went after the gunman and quickly found him. As Cone put it, Munley decided “to seek him out, to confront hm.”

Medley said he visited with Munley early Friday. “She’s doing very well. She was in good spirits. She was smiling and laughing,” he said.

Her boss said he told Munley, “The action you took saved countless peoples’ lives. People are healthy, alive and walking around today because of the action that this officer took. She’s a hero.”

Munley’s grandmother, Monirie Metz, told ABC News that the former South Carolina surfer girl would probably object to being called a hero.

“Kim doesn’t want be called a hero. She’s worried about everyone else right now and is very concerned about her colleagues with whom she is very close,” Metz said.

Of course Sgt. Munley would object to being called a hero. After what we have learned about her, who would be surprised by that? Not me. That speaks even more about her remarkable character. Can anyone not be impressed by this woman? I imagine her family is extraordinarily proud of her, as they should be.

Speaking of family:

Her husband, Matthew Munley, is a soldier at Fort Bragg, N.C., and was flown to Fort Hood. She also has two daughters, ages 15 and 2, from a previous marriage.

Needless to say, Sgt. Munley’s daring feats are already garnering tributes:

Facebook Tributes to Fort Hood Hero

In the hours after the shootings, two Facebook groups sprung up dedicated to Munley and her heroic actions.

“At that tragic moment you were able to use your training and abilities to bring an end to a day that will haunt the lives of many for years to come,” one member posted in the group “God Bless SGT Kimberly Munley.” “Thank you for being a true hero.”

And in the group “Sgt. Kimberly Munley: A Real American Hero!,” one woman stationed in Japan with her military husband said that Munley had inspired her to learn how to shoot once she returned to the U.S.

A true hero indeed – I know she’s mine.

  • Tammy

    WHAT?
    Hasan was a TERRORIST?
    I thought he caught PTSD by touching a dirty towel or something.

    Amy, as usual, you point out the facts.
    Thank you for the straight story.

    God bless those murdered soldiers and their grief-stricken families. I can’t even imagine the pain that they are experiencing.
    And thank you, Kimberly Munley, for taking this guy down. I hope you recover quickly, officer Munley. What a hero! An inspiration for all Americans.

  • Bronwyn’s Harbor

    Thank you so much for the additional details on Sgt. Munley. Sadly, I haven’t heard much at all about how delicate her situation was on TV news. All the emphasis has been on debating Mjr. Hasan’s condition, the e-mails, etc. Bastard.

    Some Muslim he was — hitting a strip club all the time. But he sure bought into the violence. I think we need to stop being quite so P.C. and be extra-cautious. Thankfully, the vast majority of Muslims in this country are integrated into the U.S., but one has to be careful because of the SICK popularity of hating the U.S. that is rampant in the mosques, etc.

  • Onofre’s arm

    Correction on the number of dead. 14 died, not 13, one of the casualties was pregnant.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Thanks, Tammy and BH – I appreciate it!

    It is just absurd that the MSM, the President, and others are trying to play this off as PTSD. It’s not like we haven’t had domestic terrorists in this country before – every time someone attacks a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor who works at a women’s health clinic, it is terrorism.

    This unwillingness to call this what it is is simply reprehensible – political correctness taken to its absurd end. Don’t get me wrong – I am not anti-PC, but to claim this man who was trying to contact Al Qaida, who tried to proselytize his SUPERIORS in an hour long “report,” who made numerous anti-American statements, and with premeditation murdered a number of soldiers is a TERRORIST.

    I was surprised, too, BH, at how little the MSM had reported on the severity of Sgt. Munley’s gunshot wounds, and that Hasan was using COP KILLER bullets. Yikes She really is remarkable. Wow..

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Yes, thank you, OA.

  • Gabi Lange

    Thank you, Amy. A great way to begin the day learning about K. Munly details of her heroism.

  • babawankenobe

    Sgt. Munley is a true American patriot! May her brothers and sisters in arms who came into harms way recover swiftly and wave our flag high on the coming 4th of July with their families! My heart goes out to the families of the victims of this heinous terrorist act.Especially to the husband and father of the innocent woman with unborn child who were murdered in the name if Islam. May they rest in peace in gods heavenly glory.

  • lorac

    Rev. Amy – the reason it wouldn’t come up with those other kinds of domestic terrorism is because those killers weren’t working with suffering people.

    And people keep referring to it as PTSD when they’re scoffing at it – the concept is related, but it’s not the same. It’s called vicarious trauma, or compassion fatigue. It happens to therapists, particularly when they work almost exclusively with people who have suffered severe trauma themselves – therapists who work with soldiers, rape or domestic violence survivors (more people who have PTSD fall into this category than in the soldier category), etc. Also, humanitarian workers can suffer from vicarious trauma, when they’re helping people in other countries who are living in drastic and dangerous environments.

    However, it’s more likely to lead to depression, not acting out. Someone who is suffering from vicarious trauma begins to feel very hopeless about the world, because day-in and day-out, all they hear is suffering. Of course, a person is more susceptible if they keep things inside, don’t have a good support system, etc – don’t have the things that help everyone stay healthy. I don’t think vicarious trauma would have directly caused this man’s behavior, but it may have been one of the factors that fed into his screwed up thinking processes.

    So, mainly I’m just trying to say that yes! there is something called vicarious trauma. I’m not aware that some people are saying it’s the reason and the only reason this guy acted as he did, I think they’re pointing it out as a factor, but not the only one – but maybe they’re out there and I haven’t seen those articles. But it’s one thing for people to say they don’t believe he had vicarious trauma, another to scoff and say the whole concept doesn’t exist.

    And people calling it PTSD are setting up a straw man to knock down – of course he didn’t have PTSD, IF (if, if, if) he had something, it would have been vicarious trauma. And if he had it, it doesn’t mean it’s the reason he did this – it may have just been one of the “building blocks” feeding into his larger discontent, and he may have “used” it to feed into his warped thinking.

    To be clear – the point of my post is about vicarious trauma, not about any excuse for this terrorist.

  • lorac

    Amy, I responded to you, but the spammy thought I was oowawa and ate it!

  • Onofre’s arm

    Motive is an important consideration for determining if this was terrorism or not. Not long ago, a whack job entered the Jewish Federation in Seattle and bravely confronted and shot 6 unarmed women, killing one of them. For some time it was unclear whether this was terrorism or just a lone psycho, while I kept wondering why it couldn’t be both. As it turns out, the truth of this man was revealed in monitored phone calls from jail to his mother. He told his mother that he was a soldier of Allah, and a martyr because of what he had done. While it is arguable that anyone who engages in these murderous acts is by definition insane, if their motive is to kill and terrify random innocents because it contributes to a broader established campaign, and is not just some personal revenge, it’s terrorism. And just because it is carried out by a psycho doesn’t make it less so.

    The wacko in Seattle and the one in Ft Hood are identical in all but the amount of victims they created. They’re both insane, soulless, Jihadist terrorists. Yet for some reason, Obama is now trying to define this event as an example of an inexplicable isolated act of violence. Just another “man made dissaster” I guess.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Thank you for the clarification, lorac – I wasn’t trying to imply that there wasn’t such a thing as “vicarious trauma,” just that it seems like an attempt to excuse the inexcusable in this case. As you (rightly) pointed out, those suffering from that type of trauma typically do not take it out on others. As I understand it, they might get depressed, or at worse, commit suicide, not engage in terrorism.

    And Hasan’s actions definitely fit the definition of terrorism (h/t to SFIndie for this): United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)

    d(2) – the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.

  • lorac

    But of course! Terrorism doesn’t happen in the Land of Unicorns (TM)….

    (I don’t know how to do the superscript for “TM” !)

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Just to you know, I have the definition for “terrorism” above.

    And OA, like you, I don’t see that there is necessarily a difference between being insane and being a terrorist (hope I am not putting words in your mouth there). I mean, really – is it SANE to be a suicide bomber, for instance? Or to plot to kill a number of your fellow, unarmed, soldiers? Of course not. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t terrorism just the same.

    lorac, the TM thing was funny – unicorns…

  • lorac

    Rev. Amy – yes, and I’m not even sure he was in the field long enough to develop vicarious trauma. I believe he just graduated a year ago (?) and was then transferred to Fort Hood to counsel returning soldiers. I’m not aware of there being an actual time limit, but I believe it’s after *years* of pretty exclusive work with trauma victims.

    I try very, very hard to avoid Obama, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he and his minions are trying to make this be about anything but Muslim radicalism or terrorism. His election made the world a place of peace and love, and plus, he’s made all those overtures to the (misogynistic) religion of Islam.

    As a reverend, what do you think about this: I keep wondering what it means when a religion teaches to hate and/or kill “the other” (the infidels). Does it suggest that these people who do, are putting tribalism before basic religious principles (being a good person, caring about others, etc)? Or, are these violent people “simply” following old-fashioned religious writings (like in the Old Testament, if someone were to go around cutting off the hands of thieves or putting out people’s eyes)?

    Have you studied anything about other religions? Does Islam need a “New Testament”, some kind of modern interpretation? I just don’t understand why there are so many “mis-interpreters” of this religion, as it is often put. Why so many, and why is the “mis-interpretation” so violent?

  • Onofre’s arm

    Ted Bundy claimed that pornography was the cause for his major malfunction, but few, if any psychologists bought that bullshit.

    Apologists for Hasan have now thrown out multiple reasons for his actions; He was bullied (boo-hoo), he had conscientious objections to the wars (but no objections to multiple murders of innocent countrymen), he has vicarious PTSD, etc. His lawyer will sieze on one or several of these excuses in an attempt to either define his client as the real victim here, or as someone who is mentally unfit to stand trial. People can excuse or twist the reasons for this horror all they want to, I’m just going to be a simpleton here and call it a hideous act of terrorism, perpetrated by an evil man.

  • TexasMirth

    Thank you Rev Amy for calling this terrorist a terrorist. We in Bell County know that is what he is. Obama is here today…I hope he has the decency not to call this horrific act a result of PTSS — Not here – Not now.

  • Carlaforhillary

    Thank you for the much needed information about Sgt. Munley. She is an American Hero. Hasan on the other hand, is a terrorist, and Obama and others are trying to say he is not.

  • lorac

    Onofre’s arm – I’ve been thinking about this a lot – motive vs. result, factors vs. direct cause, extent of responsibility, etc.

    Where I’m at right now is: in terms of responsibility/punishment, motive may be considered, but result is primarily important. Where motive may be primarily important is in the realm of prevention – some people have murderous thoughts, but only some act on them.

    It behooves us as a society to learn about the context, so that we may be able to prevent or earlier identify potential problem people. So in that sense, at some point, it may be important for people to look at all the possible contributors (political, religious, emotional, PC-motivated avoidance by others of his problem, etc) to this guy’s behavior.

    So while different possible contributors do not excuse his behavior or diminish his responsibility, understanding those factors may keep us safe in the future.

    What do you think?

  • lorac

    … or maybe when someone’s religion becomes political, maybe then there’s more likelihood of hatred and violence….? I don’t know, the thought just occurred to me…

  • Onofre’s arm

    I think it’s a complicated issue, of course. My “simpleton” position was merely an attempt to cut through the confusing tangle of interlocking variables such as motive, cause, results, blame, etc., and get to the heart of the matter. We too often add to this confusing mess by trying to over analyze an event. Should officer Munley have made an attempt to reach out to Hasan, find out what was bugging him, reason with him, or hold his hand? Of course not! She cut to the chase and shot the bastard.

    I’m not even sure that a detailed understanding of Hasan, Bundy, or anyone else will help to keep us safe in the future. There are 7+ billion people in this world, and just as many possible reasons for any one of them to go bonkers.

  • Onofre’s arm

    You got my meaning just fine.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Yeah, I knew he was going there. You know, now his speechwriters have had time to put something together for him to say since the debacle of him showing how he handles these things on his own (“I’d like to give a shout out…”).

    I was wondering how he was going to frame it myself…

    Hang in there, Texas…

    My pleasure Carla!

    OA – glad I read you correctly…

  • jwrjr

    I have a suggestion. Put a couple of SOG squads in a room. Tell them what Hasan did, and that whatever happens in that room stays there. Throw Hasan in. Close the door and wait.

  • lorac

    What is SOG?

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Is this the SOG to which you were referring? http://www.sogknives.com/store/sog-story.html

  • lauraks

    Are you really surprised by the msm’s disinterest in yet another strong, heroic woman? The speaker of the house threw us under the bus the other day with impunity. Just surreal.I’ll tell you this I build my daughter up everyday to counter the destructiveness to women all around us in our country.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    It’s funny, when this first happened, I remember posting to the thread about here on NQ and saying it was terrorism…that I did not understand all the PTSD excuses. People were saying “don’t jump to conclusions” but it seemed obvious to me.

    Now, we have all this information out that the guy not only glorified suicide bombers on the Internet, but he actually tried to contact Al Qaeda and was watched by the CIA because of it. He was also doing crazy things like giving speeches that were supposed to be medical in nature, talking all about how great suicide bombers were and how the infidels should have their heads cut off.

    What blows my mind is that this guy did not get discharged with all these warning signs. That people are still trying to make this about PTSD is also pretty stunning…but I think even those folks are having a hard time ignoring the hard evidence here.

    Obama won’t want to call this a terrorist attack because he campaigned on being “above” the war on terror. But I think most of America knows what this really was.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    HoB – you were absolutely right. I didn’t know how anyone could be classifying this as anything else but terrorism, either. I sure don’t remember a whole lot of hand-wringing over referring to McVeigh as a terrorist – and he surely was. But surely too is Hasan.

    It really does make you wonder why this man was still int he Army given all they knew abt them. Were they told to just watch him, and keep hands off for a reason? Did they think he would lead to bigger fish, or did they not want to appear “insensitive”?

    I certainly do not believe in making assumptions abt someone because of their race, religion, creed, what-have-you, but Hasan was clearly on a different level – all the things mentioned already make that clear.

    Do – afte r9/11, don’t you think the Powers-That-Be would be MORE suspect, not LESS?

  • Unabashed Galt

    This is not being necessarily directed towards any specific individuals on NQ:

    Is it possible to bury the dead and let the families grieve a bit before people take advantage or use this tragedy to score political brownie-points? The soap boxes can wait maybe 5 minutes?

    I’ve seen some horrific prejudice rear its ugly noggin since this tragedy struck. Shame on any taking part.

  • ziggy

    PTSD enters in only because Hassan was apparently treating people with PTSD that related to the central issue of his own inner turmoil.

    How did the army fail to realize Hassan was a powder keg they’d put at middle of a room full of sparks?

    I can’t believe anyone aware of the warnings signs would be playing them down out of sensitivity for the fact that Hassan was Muslim. Suggesting “political correctness” is to blame is total bullsh-t.

    I’m also wondering why the guy wasn’t discharged.

  • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

    I wholeheartedly agree.

  • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

    Galt, the news commentators keep describing the memorial as “healing”. I disagree. First has to come truth…what we’re all searching for both focused and in the broader perspective. Next, justice and resolution. Only then can the first stages of healing begin.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    lorac, very thoughtful comment – thank you for that.

    And yes, as a UU, we are required to study other religions. Plus, I worked as a university chaplain, thus working with other faith chaplains as well, including the Muslim imam.

    So, yes, I have read a bit abt Islam, and Muhammad in particular. I have not read the entire Qu’ran, though.

    Remember that Islam takes as its foundation both Christianity and Judaism. Muhammad himself was compassionate, doted on his daughters (the misogyny seen in radical Islam is not unlike the misogyny seen in radical Christianity – not sanctioned by the founders of the religions, in fact, quite the opposite), and said he did not want his words written down. He felt that once they were in writing, they were at risk of being misunderstood/misinterpreted. No freakin’ kidding.

    But here’s the thing – and I think you hit on it with the political aspect. Whenever a religion or political belief is taken to the extreme, or in a fundamentalist way, the flow of the belief is impeded, if you know what I mean. The flow of the belief in conjunction with changing times and mores is blocked. So it becomes very rigid, very black/white in thinking. To me, that pretty much undermines the whole concept of religion/spirituality because the world is not stagnant. For people to treat something that was written hundreds, or thousands, of years ago, without taking in cultural, historical, or literary changes, miss the point. IMHO, that is.

    I don’t know if that helps at all – the bottom line is that just the way the Crusades did not reflect at ALL the teachings of Jesus (“Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself,” which, incidentally, was written in Leviticus before Jesus said it), deadly jihads do not reflect the teachings of Muhammad.

    Huh – guess I could have said that in the first place.

  • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

    that was direct to HoB’s comments.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    You’re daughter is lucky to have a mother like you.

    And sadly, after this past election, the level of blatant misogyny and sexism displayed by the MSM, does not surprise me…

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    You’re right that using political correctness to not discharge Major Hasan was bullshit, yet that is exactly what was mentioned: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6526030/Fort-Hood-gunman-had-told-US-military-colleagues-that-infidels-should-have-their-throats-cut.html

    I cannot imagine why he would not be discharged, either. Makes no sense to me.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    Excellent point, Annie. Healing doesn’t just happen overnight. It is a long process. I imagine until these families get some real answers, they are in some sort of limbo. Memorials give some kind of structure in which to remember the person, certainly, but it doesn’t answer the why or the how, or somehow fill the sudden void in a family’s life. This memorial cannot completely ease the pain, the anger, the shock, or the loss…All of that takes TIME.

  • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

    If I were a family member of someone slain, I’d be super POed at all the apologizing going on in the name of “PTSD” and whatnot.

  • ziggy

    I just read the article. Fellow militiary doctors didn’t feel compelled to report that one of their own was fizzing like a rabid racoon?

    Something is seriously wrong with this picture.

  • Doc99

    Once again, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Surely someone should have seen this coming before this ticking time bomb went off.

  • Unabashed Galt

    The apologizing is insensitive, premature and falls under the brownie-points…

  • Doc99
  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    I couldn’t agree more, ziggy. Mind boggling, shocking, and exceedingly disturbing, I’d say…

  • http://! stodgie

    by hassan’s definition of trauma, many of us suffered it watching our fellow americans die by his hand. where are the excuses for that? oh that’s right, we are supposed to suck it up and blieve these wackos. i think not.

    the low levels to which our so called media has sunk is below the frost line and down where the dirty sediment goes.

  • http://! stodgie

    by hassan’s definition of trauma, many of us suffered it watching our fellow americans die by his hand. where are the excuses for that? oh that’s right, we are supposed to suck it up and believe these wackos. i think not.

    the low levels to which our so called media has sunk is below the frost line and down where the dirty sediment goes.

  • mountainaires

    I think Hasan could have easily been diagnosed with Paranoid Personality Disorder. He exhibits all the symptoms.

    Paranoid personality disorder (PPD) is one of a group of conditions called eccentric personality disorders. People with these disorders often appear odd or peculiar. People with PPD also suffer from paranoia, an unrelenting mistrust and suspicion of others, even when there is no reason to be suspicious. This disorder usually begins by early adulthood and appears to be more common in men than in women.

    What are the symptoms of PPD?

    http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/personality_disorders/hic_paranoid_personality_disorder.aspx

    What is so shocking is that he was in medical school surrounded by colleagues training to become psychiatrists–and nobody suspected mental illness in this man!

    Fort Hood Suspect Warned of Muslim Threat Within Military
    Tuesday , November 10, 2009

    The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid “adverse events.”

    According to The Washington Post, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic during his senior year as a psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Medical Center.

    Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    A source who attended the presentation told the paper, “It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset.”

    The Powerpoint, entitled, “The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military,” consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.

    “It’s getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims,” Hasan said in the presentation.

    Under a slide titled “Comments,” he wrote: “If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the ‘infidels’; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc.” [sic]

    The last bullet point on that page reads simply: “We love death more then [sic] you love life!”

    On the final slide, labeled “Recommendation,” Hasan wrote: “Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as ‘Conscientious objectors’ to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events.”

    An Army spokesman told the Post Monday night he was unaware of the presentation, and a Walter Reed spokesman declined comment.

    A classmate of Hasan, meanwhile, told FoxNews.com that the warning signs were all there — the justification of homicide bombings; spewing anti-American hatred; efforts to reach out to Al Qaeda — but that the military treated Hasan with kid gloves, even after giving him a poor performance review.

    And though he was on the radar screen of at least one U.S. intelligence agency, no action was taken that might have prevented the Army psychiatrist from allegedly gunning down 13 people and wounding 29 others in the Fort Hood massacre last week.

    Full article with much more signs of paranoid behavior:

    ghttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573547,00.html

  • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

    It will be interesting to see how and where he was spending his money. According to one of the investigators, he had a very good income yet lived in a cheap dump of an apartment; no wife, no kids. It’s one of the questions they will answer. I’m sure there’s a trail that will explain where his loyalties were. Follow the money.

  • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

    I would say you were pulling my leg, but given it ts Matthews, I know you’re not. And his having to repeat it? Sheesh.

  • lorac

    Amy – thanks for your thoughts. That definitely makes sense. Makes me feel more strongly that Muslim leaders need to weed out dangerous mosque leaders, and put a concerted effort into speaking to their own (not just going on the news and telling US) that this behavior is wrong….

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