Health Insurance Ain’t Car Insurance

I intend to cancel my car insurance and then purchase a policy only after I have an accident.

Thank you Larry!! The insurance mandate portion of this bill is the part that infuriates me the most (speaking as one of the uninsured). Don’t force me to pay for insurance I don’t want. I’d like greater competition, some rules to cut down on abuse by insurance companies, and more options to buy a lean catastrophic policy for those times when an expensive procedure is really needed.

I do not want, nor need, health insurance for my regular health needs at this time and should not be forced to buy it!

I am wondering if someone will end up taking this to court and making it invalid, if it indeed does pass.

Enter SCOTUS …

Yeah, and we all know car insurance companies are the bastions of sacrificing their bottom line to help out the little guy…

/snark

There are tons of uninsured drivers in my state; mostly illegal immigrants. So, everyone who is legal and buys auto insurance has to also buy uninsured motorist insurance. The uninsured motorists just keep on driving. What you do is when you go to register your car, you have insurance that you pay monthly; so you make one payment so that you can get registered then you let it lapse. No one checks until the next year or so. Also, my state likes illegal immigrants and would never put them in jail even if they catch them driving without insurance. That means that legal citizens are actually considered less equal than illegal immigrants. I bet they will never put an illegal immigrant in jail for not having health insurance. They will continue to go to hospitals to have their babies and get care and we will be told it is unenforceable because they are illegal and so our laws do not apply to them. Mark my words, that is how it will work out.

If people do not have health insurance, they show up in the emergency wards with serious injuries and you and I get to pick up the bill. It is my understanding that this is 12% of my bill.

Should I be happy in picking up this- really???

Hey, I pick up the bill for your kids education and I don’t have any kids. Should I be happy?

I could hear the reporter loud & clear, however Nancy was channeling Marilyn Monroe in a breathy whisper, will someone please tell me what she said…all I heard was, “I’m not going to have it.”

Texas is this way.

The Irving Police had to stop checking for citizenship/immigration status because ICE (fed. immigration folk) told them they couldn’t process all the illegals the police were finding during routine traffic stops.

The state loves illegals…all that sales tax revenue.
The counties and cities ‘hate’ them because of the LOSS of revenue due to hospital costs and LOSS of revenue due to multiple families living in a single home (taxes based on house, not numbers of persons in said house).

This health care bill is just a way for us citizens to “legally” pay for all those illegals. Ya see, because the illegals will still go to the hospital, without insurance, and the hospital will still tend to them at “no cost”. But our mandatory insurance will end up paying for them, I’m sure.

When I was working for a company, the total monthly premium was over $500/month, which the company mostly paid for. Now that I’m freelancing, I pay less than $150/month for the same coverage. Something’s not right…

I always figured it was worth paying for the education of other people’s kids to keep the country from filling up with ignorant adults. That was the theory, at least. There’s some question about how well it has worked out in practice.

I’d pick educating kids who have an opportunity to contribute to society over those who take my money and send it “home” anyday…

Great article, Larry. Yes, this is a pretty lame argument.

You may be paying more than 12% with this bill. People are up in arms over this bill because the United States government is over-reaching the constitution and mandating healthcare for everyone. So those people who don’t want to have it buy health ins. because they don’t want to as opposed to not being able to afford it are getting a raw deal. Plus a zillion other reasons why this bill is a mess.

We have medicare, medicad, schip, and free healthcare for all at emergency rooms. But none of that is mandated. Tax payer funded, but not mandated.

Reform yes, mandate no. I did you to think it was a good idea, since that was Hillary’s plan and I supported her, but now as time has passed and the healthcare debate rages on, now I agree with Larry.

Obama used the mandate against Hillary during the primary , and now he supports it.

People who don’t have insurance now aren’t suddenly going to find magic money growing on trees to pay for it just because it has been mandated. I know a lot of people who are freelancers struggling in this economy, living hand to mouth, who basically have money to cover food, rent, etc.

Where I live you don’t end up paying 1/4 of your income for housing, for quite a few people I know it ends up being 1/2 to 3/4 of income – to RENT.

Where is $500/month of insurance going to fit in for these folks. Paying the penalty will probably be cheaper – and if they have no money just end up owing the IRS. And they will STILL end up in hospitals with no insurance.

comrade pelosi needs a brain detox!

Nice article. I think that a lot of people fail to realize that this is nothing more than that…mandated insurance. The only thing this will accomplish is more profit for the health care industry.

There is no cost regulation. There is no guarantee that your insurance will cost less….at least not in writing.

I seriously am waiting to tell people, I told you so. Just insane that you think for one second that if everyone bought health insurance that these companies would just willingly lower the cost of it. When have you ever heard of a company lowering their prices cause their profit is up? So retarted its beyond belief.

Hope so!

Frontline’s “Sick Around the World” is worth watching. I’m not sure what conclusions should be drawn, other than that our own current system leaves something to be desired.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

I was astonished to learn that MRIs cost around $98 in Japan. (Total cost, not what the patient pays.) They use them with much greater frequency that in the US, where the total cost is around $1200.

Thanks for the video Larry. Excellent work by CNS.

We do not have free healthcare for all at hospital emergency rooms! Only those who provide an imaginary address or don’t pay their bills. I could not walk into an ER with any problem and not get a bill. A big one.

I’m pretty sure you meant to say that was a healthcare option for illegal immigrants and that’s going to be a problem unless a bill passes that covers all illegals or lets them buy private coverge. Ain’t gonna happen.

Larry, if you’re going to rant, please get your facts straight. There is NO provision for sending people to jail if they don’t buy the mandated insurance. Sure, there’s a fine, apparently, but NOTHING about jail time. This is just another lie perpetuated by the right wingers in order to shoot down this bill.

From what I’ve heard, if you earn under $44,000 or so, the govt picks up a large chunk of your insurance fee. Something like 85%. Or more. There’s a sliding scale of percentages based on income. For those in this category, it’s a good deal. The problem in this bill, which I’m quite leery of, is that it’s too damn complicated and doesn’t go far enough. Basically, it’s a windfall for the insurance companies and the anti-abortion people.

It would have been so much easier and simpler to phase in Medicare for Everyone, by giving it outright to all returning veterans, and then lowering the age from 65 to maybe 55 and eventually to all age groups.

Also, people tend to forget that Medicare is NOT free, but has a reasonably affordable monthly fee.
It also does not provide any health care, but simply pays for it and, of course, has nothing to do with Sarah Palin’s fantasy, the death panel.

Harp,

That is exactly how NH law reads. You do not need to buy car insurance UNTIL you have an accident and do not pay for damages in full if the other drivewr agrees.

Do you live in NH?

I was hit by “Jesus” years ago after dropping off my baby daughter in daycare. He totalled the front of my car. Thank God my daughter was not in the car with me. He asked me not to call the police, stating, “You wouldn’t call the cops on Jesus would you?”

That young illegal had:

no insurance
no driver’s license

The police officer let him go, telling me that it was pointless to arrest the man as “jails were already over crowded”.

Now with regards to this crap bill? If they deem that my current insurance does not meet their guidelines, I guess I’ll be going to jail.

Remember the lesson of MA – universal coverage does not assure universal access. So it’s still back to the ER.

Um, if you watched the Nancy Pelosi video, she didn’t say no to the assertion that there would be jail time if you didn’t comply.

Which leaves open the possibility.

“Sure, there’s a fine, apparently, but NOTHING about jail time.”

The possibility of jail does not need to be in the bill itself. It is apparently part of the tax code, something related to refusal to pay an excise tax or something like that.

I don’t remember exactly how that works but you can Google it. And yes, it is possible that you could be thrown in jail the way the bills are currently structured.

Zeke Emanuel is a one man death panel.

Donjo, perhaps you need to check this out. Rep. Dave Camp -R, ranking member of the House Ways and Means Committee apparently disagrees with you on the “jail time” premise.

One committee had the smarts to remove the punitive jail time and Ms Nancy put it back in. Do try to keep up.

http://yesbuthowever.com/pelosi-bill-jail-health-insurance-8136225/comment-page-1/

Perhaps you should read this donjo…

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/66879-pelosi-bill-jail-for-no-insurance?page=3

Ziggy, how many MRIs are you wanting to buy in this lifetime? The idea is to be and stay healthy so you don’t need such things.

Part of the problem is Americans think they’re owed an MRI if their toe hurts.

Change of attitude is what’s needed.

On Pg 1291 of HR 3962 Healthcare workforce is defined to include veterinarians.

As my health insurance equals me to a car I request the following:

Rotate my tires. Check under my hood. Oh yeah I’ll need an “oil change” on a regular basis.

Ahem.

For some time now, members of our government, FROM BOTH PARTIES, have been sticking little dingleberries onto our Constitution. Now, the current administration and Congress have taken a dump so gigantic that it would make an elephant envious, on the document they’ve all sworn (with their fingers crossed) to uphold.

Individual freedom will become a crime if this law is passed. If you are wealthy enough to pay directly for your medical care, you will still need to pay for insurance or risk arrest. Exercising your freedom of choice will get you arrested. By merely existing, you’ll be required to buy insurance or face arrest. No matter how healthy you keep yourself, and how careful you are, you could end up in jail if you don’t buy health insurance. Jail time for those who don’t insure their health. You’ve been found guilty of the heinous crime of not insuring your health.

Hmmmm. No matter how I frame the character of this particular component of the health care bill, I can’t get it to sound like it belongs in America, the free.

And of course, you’ll need to eat a prescribed diet, bath regularly, avoid drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, brush you teeth twice daily, and avoid all physical risks, or you’ll void the warranty.

The Japanese currently have a 5 year longer life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate. (I suppose we might just be a more sickly bunch, though they sure seem to like their tobacco and alcohol.) They spend only 8% of their GDP with universal coverage, while we’re spending 15.3% here in the US.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/etc/graphs.html

Maybe MRI units and CT scanners have miraculous health-enhancing properties.

LOL Candymarl

and lead free gas to run on!

Thanks for this post. I made similar arguments a while back. The car insurance equation is just plain false. no one has to buy a car. no car. no mandate. I can’t trade in my body for a bike. I joked in my post that Carol Anne in Poltergeist would be exempt from carrying health insurance during the time she was body less in the TV. The moment she was saved by the little person Pelosi would be at the door demanding she carry health insurance again.

There must be huge constitutional issues here! Have the feds ever forced a product or service on everyone? I can think of no example. Even if the car analogy worked – which it doesn’t – there is no federal car insurance mandate. it’s done at the state level.

Do what? Veterinarians? Can you elaborate?

Yep and it makes perfect sense that no one wants to hire….especially not knowing what expenses are being pushed on to them; higher taxes, penalty taxes, etc. I’d be sitting pretty tight too.

And now we have our Gov, you know, Billie Boy, kickback Richardson? He has increased government by 50 percnet in his 6 1/2 years. For what? Oh, you know, contracts to his donors. Tax dollars spent on his donors for business, Solar, Space Port, a Choo Choo, a super computer that no one knows what good it will do, etc. He tried to get control of the states retirment. That didn’t work, so he put his people on the boards for investment and caused hundreds of millions of dollars to be snatched up that way.

Hee put a freeze for state employees late last year and proceeded to hire 300 exempt (political contributors) within a matter of months. And then you have the working stiffs that have to threaten a law suit to get their raise now a year over due. Then, because of that, they cancel the promotion they promised you. And now, because Richardson and his cronies have raped the state, they are in a massive shortfall. So they cancel any raises, increase the deductions to cover the states portion for retirment and then, when the Gov is told to cut spending budgets ( you know, all the contractors with agreements with Billie Boy and his cronies) he cancels those cuts and today announced mandatory furloughs, starting with one week unpaid for all 190000 employees.

These Democrats suck.

What happens to State-run insurance? Some senators are trying to put in a caveat that lets States run their own if they wish.
The California legislature has twice passed single payer only to have Schwarzennegger veto it both times. It’s possible it would pass with someone like Jerry Brown. Would California be prohibited from passing their own? And what happens to Massachusetts?
Anyone who’s read the bill, please clue me in.

Also, as far as I know, there is a fine, but definitely no jail time if you’re caught without car insurance, and you could of course lose your licence, if you had one in the first place.

When people use the risible car insurance comparison they should be confronted with the fact that the range of costs for car insurance is very broad depending on the person(s) and vehicle(s) insured. People with several DUI’s or just a bad driving record, pay a great deal more than people with a long safe driving record. People pay more if they drive an expensive car, and less if they drive an old heap and don’t require comprehensive coverage and low deductibles. Poor grades in school, or a bad credit rating also affect costs. But, do you think it would be fair to good drivers who have modest vehicles to pay the same as some actor with multiple DUI’s who drives a 250k Maserati? My eardrums ache just thinking about it.

How loud do you think progressives would scream if the amount that everybody were to pay for health insurance was calculated using formulas similar to those used to determine car insurance?

You notice the Obama supporters don’t comment so much and turn into ostriches (with their heads buried beneath the sand) when the reality of their bad decision to support him hits home? I predict more and more ostriches as they slowly realize they’ve been duped on a whole boatload of fronts.

I don’t think big broski is gonna to accept empty Cheetos bags and depleted energy drink cans as payment for their health insurance. They better start selling their Ipods and fancy liquid-cooled gaming computers to pay for the mandatory insurance.

I have my antimatter powered popcorn machine ready!

I have an acronymn for all our woes: DRIP (don’t re-elect incumbent politicians)

I would not count on SCOTUS to uphold the Constitution. I lost faith in them when they refused to deal with the “eligibility” issue.

I guess that any physician who would be able to brave the stench and leaping parasites, and treat a drooling, knuckle dragging, unbathed, troglodyte, Obama voter, could and should be classified as a veterinarian. Otherwise, 69 million creatures would not be covered by this bill.

Larry, if you’re going to rant, please get your facts straight. There is NO provision for sending people to jail if they don’t buy the mandated insurance. Sure, there’s a fine, apparently, but NOTHING about jail time. This is just another lie perpetuated by the right wingers in order to shoot down this bill.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/politics/111109-nelson-health-care

“In order to insure everyone and keep costs down, the house version of the bill would make it mandatory for everyone to get insurance even if you don’t want it. It makes penalties of fines and even threatens putting people in jail if they can afford insurance, but don’t buy it.”

Seems strange that everyone quoted here linking this to jail time has a large “R” pasted after his/her name. It’s just a scare tactic and apparently, for some is working. Big time. If anyone says this is so, then please, please PROVE IT’s in the bill and not just someone’s opinion.

I’ve heard at least 3 people on the radio the past few days and they all say this is nonsense.

• Section 7203 — misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 — felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

LOL

So by the time SCOTUS gets the case it might 5-4 the other way. If it was kicked over to that side of the street sooner than later, then who knows what might hatch. That one opinion might decide the fate of America in ways that are Rumsfieldian at least in this schizoid version of Caligula-USA
(kinda like how British shows have no mercy on the characters and off them without regard).

Can any government in effect declare martial law with a velvet glove? I”shall” be required to pay for my own demise. Ok..well how is that you say? Teak’s full of it, you say? My choices within the vast landscape of health care options will be limited in scope and quality.
The simple fact is that the government is keeping, not changing, the corporate structure that delivers health care, just amounts to slapping an “Under new management” sign out front.
Honestly, are there any Constitutional Scholars up hear in the cheap seats with me, asking where in the founding documents it says indentured servitude is acceptable?
The Senator from Hawaii is dreamy like the other guy who says he is from that state.

You missed the point. Totally.

So because there’s an R – it’s a lie and in that line of thinking then, if there’s a D behind the person’s name then it is the solid truth. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm!

Boy, no wonder Obama stole the election.

Seems strange that everyone quoted here linking this to jail time has a large “R” pasted after his/her name. It’s just a scare tactic and apparently, for some is working. Big time. If anyone says this is so, then please, please PROVE IT’s in the bill and not just someone’s opinion.

Here is the Bill from a non “R” source:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:2:./temp/~c1112hA0c6::

Then search for section 401. There is a tax if you don’t get “acceptable” coverage.

I am assuming the jail reference is due to the fact if you fail to pay the tax. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Or maybe I found the wrong section?

Well anyway, folks are still being forced to purchase something by the federal government.

Excerpt:

H.R.3200
America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Reported in House)

SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

(a) In General- Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:

`PART VIII–HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES

`subpart a. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

`Subpart A–Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

`Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

`SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–

`(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

`(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

You play a mean, Harp Harp

What are ya in for?

I like it!

Isn’t Social Security mandated? How about paying income taxes? Or taking off your shoes at the airport?

Those people with an R after their name tend to be against any form of health care reform – or anything that might help out folks that aren’t corporations. We already know for a fact that their media boys aren’t known for spreading the truth. I also don’t believe a word out of most D’s mouth, either. The Liar in Chief is the prime example of that. Politicians lie; that seems to be a part of their nature.

And in today’s amoral world, that seems to be quite acceptable.

I know the director of a radiology center here in Tampa. She was saying the other day how mad she was somebody called the MRI techs out on a weekend to work on the machine. With the service contract… which supposedly saves the center money, techs charged $1300 an hour for weekend work. Yes, the “system” is broken. It’s just not doctors and hospitals. It’s also drug manufacturers and everybody down to medical supplies and service companies. Cutting a slice out of what doctors make like this bill is going to do misses the whole point also. Why cut the doctor visit payment from $30 to $20 and turn around and pay $150 for $5 worth of pills? The large corporations are the only ones government works for. The rest of us are like farm animals to them.

Picture of Pelousy with the caption: “This is your brain on Botox.”

You don’t pay into Social Security if you don’t have a job. Nobody makes you pay regardless. You just don’t get any money out.

However, a congressman who sits on the Ways and Means committee is not too likely to send out totally untrue information about the healthcare bill, full well knowing it would travel around the internet.

The issue discussed is the “Jail time clause”‘ not whether one side lies more than the other.

The fact that Nancy Pelosi thinks it’s a good idea is, in and of itself, amoral. WTF does Nancy know about people who live pay check to pay check being then charged for health insurance? She doesn’t. She’s as out of touch as some of those movie stars who make commercials saying how everyone should give more all the while getting hundreds of thousands for saying it.

Fix the system by regulating costs and capping litigation against doctors.

But, better yet, people need to start taking an active role in creating their own good health rather than being pawns in another entitlement program.

So then WHY didn’t the madame say NO, there will be no jail time.That seems really a simple way to put an end to the question.

I want to be upgraded to a Porsche 911 Carerra – a new one. If the government thinks I’m a car then I should get to choose what model I want to be.

UGH? taking your shoes off at the airport is a huge difference to paying or buying health insurance.

What the Hell think before you post and show yourself up.

Your trivializing the issue.

The Dems are a sorry lot. They had the WH and both houses of Congress and this is the pathetic 2000 page solution they came up with. From what I’ve read it doesn’t help the middle class at all except that we can’t be denied coverage anymore.

And remember BO flapping his lips that you can keep the insurance you have now if you like it? NOT if you have medicare advantage–that one is going away.

And please, let’s agree that if no money is allowed to subsidize abortions (even if you buy your own insurance!!) no money should subsidize viagra either.

Frankly, I’m so sick of both parties right now and I’m pretty sick and tired of govt in general…

Ron Paul 2012!

Lighten up. It is a trivial issue. Taking off your shoes is a federal mandate. And, yes, if you want to work, you need a social security card. It’s mandated. The fact is there ARE other fed govt. mandates we live with each and every day.

There was a state opt-in or out amendment being considered. Don’t know the status.

I seriously believe access/quality of care will be reduced. And, in the end, there will still be mils of people left uninsured.

Kill the bill!

If you’re willing to “let your fingers do the walking” you can find low cost tests/procedures paid out of pocket here too.

How long before they develop a cash-for-clunkers deal on body parts? (That’s as far as I’m gonna go on this one… )

That is not what Larry said.
IF you own a car you are required to have car insurance.
To equate that to health insurance is dumb.
People who are young and have no health problems who end up using the medical system are going on a pay-as-you-go system.
Let me give you a better example.
If you buy a BMW built into the cost is a maintenance agreement where you do not have to pay for any service for 4 years.
Conversely, Mercedes Benz does not offer such a plan and you pay less for the comparable car but do have to pay to have it serviced for the 4 years.
I have the BMW and after 4 years bought an extended maintenance agreement and realized I used it exactly 2 times – for 2 oil changes.
Bottom line is that in most cases those cars only require an oil change once a year which costs far, far less than the cost of the maintenance plan.
People should have their choice of healthcare coverage and even the right not to have it without being penalized.

The House bill for healthcare OVERHAUL (not reform) will set back our healthcare industry and cause premiums and costs to skyrocket.

Other than the military, there is nothing the Federal Government has ever run successfully without running deeply into the Red.

The two biggest drivers to reduce healthcare costs are tort reform (putting limits on ambulance chasers) and deregulation to allow more competition among health insurance companies (like we did with telecom and airlines). Neither are considerations in the House plan.

The Obama/Pelosi Plan is to nationalize health care in this country even with the failed examples of Canada and the UK.

[...] Health Insurance Ain’t Car Insurance [...]

I am a court clerk—these people who make these rules and laws have no idea about how the real country works. Do they realize how many people are driving without insurance and without driver’s licenses?

Puma For Life: I think you’ve really hit on an important point. I’ve given up hope that our country will ever be restored to sanity. Whether the illegals are covered under the healthcare bill or whether or not they are amnestied will matter little in practical terms. The corporations and the feds want these people in the country so it will happen and the American taxpayer will foot the bill.

If they aren’t covered in the bill, they’ll continue going to the emergency room and we’ll pay; if they aren’t amnestied, the federal government will turn a blind eye to the border and eventually enough anchor babies will be born that in 18 years the Mexicans will have a voting majority. That is the plan, whether Republicans or Democrats are in power.

We might as well face it, this is not our country anymore. I got an e-mail yesterday from Southern Poverty Law celebrating that Lou Dobbs resigned. They claim he spread myths and slandered the illegal immigrants. I wrote and told them I hope they are seeking justice for the little girl who was raped by 10 men in Richmond, 8 of them illegal Mexicans. I hope they are seeking justice and reparations for all the Americans who have been the victims of hate crimes perpetrated by hispanics living in this country illegally. I doubt I’ll get a response.

How loud do you think progressives would scream if the amount that everybody were to pay for health insurance was calculated using formulas similar to those used to determine car insurance?

It would be backward anyway. Responsible family people would pay the most while illegal aliens would get it for free. Meanwhile Big Sis will keep the borders open going toward an equalized economy between The U.S., Canada and don’t forget Mexico… the great equalizer. Remember the NAFTA Superhighway? Remember who gave that to us? Point being, Obama is just the p.c. brown guy doing the same work that has been ongoing since at least Bush I. Same stuff, different presidential reality show. I don’t care for the show, but that is all it is.

fiscal liberal: I believe this all hinges on the issue of legality. Why are American citizens required to pay for people who only in this country because the federal government refuses to enforce our laws? that’s a different issue from paying taxes so all American children can get an education. Of course, in most school systems today, our children are not getting an adequate education because our schools are filled with illegal children whose parents hold jobs Americans should have and who don’t pay taxes to support our schools. they send their money to Latin America and to the Catholic church.

The big problem with Obama’s healthcare is he hasn’t shown a willingness to crack down on fraud or waste of any kind. Why should we trust an administration that isn’t willing to uphold the law? I don’t.

My daughter had an auto accident with a woman who didn’t have insurance. The woman hit her car in a parking lot. My daughter couldn’t get a cent to cover her damages and the uninsured woman suffered no consequences. She certainly didn’t go to jail.

Everyone understands that the healthcare system has inefficiencies, many due to current regs (why cant qualified doctors practice everywhere? why can some states create insurance monopolies?). In fact ALL healthcare systems have issues and room for improvement.

I cannot believe ANYONE would want to see this current craptastic bill pass, even after it goes through the senatorial meat grinder. Do you really think Harry Reid and this idiot will make it better?

Wake up people, its your health they are screwing up now. Not just your tax rate.

he hasn’t shown a willingness to crack down on fraud or waste of any kind.

On the contrary, we are being broken as a nation so that we can be remade in the form of a North American Union. When we are closer to Mexico in living standards, the NAU won’t be so unpalatable… especially to the New Democrats which are going to outnumber the rest of us soon with the free borders and now free health care. Open the floodgates, the American way of life is being diluted. Death not from the Soviets, not from China but by 100 million cuts. Just people looking for a “better life” for their families. How democratic.

For god’s sake, the insurance companies already are de-regulated. De-regulation worked out real well in the airline industry, didn’t it? We now don’t have enough air traffic controllers and the ones we have are overworked in one of the most sensitive careers in the modern world. Makes me feel great to know that when I fly. It’s because of Bush’s deregulation that we have the economic mess we’re in now. Pay attention. Everyone needs rules and regulations–or maybe you’d like to trash the law and the Constitution and all the churches that set rules for people’s behavior.

Oh, but I’m sure if we didn’t place any regulations on business, those people would be so ethical and benevolent they would lift up our society to the highest quality on earth, no? They’re not ready to do any evil thing to increase profits.

Larry, you’re missing the point. Once in jail, universal health care kicks in. When you get out you’re so poor you can get substandard poverty care. If that doesn’t satisfy you, that’s when the death panels and assisted suicide laws kick in. See? It’s a win/win for everybody.

I went in for a blood test that was prescribed 3 years ago. There were two items to test. I asked for only one item to be tested.

It was a brand new laboratory. They only accepted cash or checks. I went out to the bank to get some cash to pay for it.

I asked how much was for that test. They said 27.69. I said, ‘fair price; I’ll take it.’ Had I gone to Quest Labs across the street I wouldn’t have been able to deduct the unnecessary test, must have had to pay with a credit card, return to the doctor for a new test prescription order because they only accept up to 6 months, and had to pay at least over 100 dollars for that test and probably over 250 for the lab test.

In this particular case I owned and was free to do as I please with the test and my money. But had I had another doctor or gone to Quest, then I would have had to submit my freedom and liberty to their authority.

Once the government takes over, you could be visited by a government official at your house for not complying with a doctor’s order. And the government would be able to penalize you seven ways to Sunday.

But yes, lets have slavery again. Oh goody goody. That will be the reward for our good public government mandated educational system. Unsurpassed quality.

No they are not de-regulated.

You cannot buy healthcare insurance across state lines where they may be less expensive. So state mandates allow health insurance companies to set prices differently in one state than in another.

What does air traffic controllers have to do with airline de-regulation? Please try explaining that.

What’s your excuse with telecom. Not enough cell phone towers?

The Constitution and the founding fathers to a man did not want a strong central government and warned against greater control over our lives by a central government.

There is nothing in the Constitution that demands that the Federal Government control our lives, run our businesses, and dictate how we make money.

“It’s because of Bush’s deregulation that we have the economic mess we’re in now.”

Right out of the Obama/MSLSD play book. What deregulation are you talking about? Are your talking about how the banks were forced by courts and government mandates for many years to offer mortgages to unworthy applicants for reasons of diversity? Are you talking about how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac went along with left wing policies to give those kind of loans which favored Democratic Party voters? Or are you talking about Sarbannes-Oxley (2002) to control the rampant corporate corruption of the ’90s?

Or maybe you are referring to the reform bill aimed at Freddie and Fannie (2005) that would have required Fannie and Freddie to eliminate their investments in “risky assets” and it would have given a regulator the power to say “no.” This bill came after a warning by Alan Greenspan that the two were on the path to putting our entire financial system at substantial risk. This bill was co-sponsored by John McCain. However, the bill never came to a vote because Democrats decided to make it a partisan issue, and opposed it along party lines.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0

Or maybe you just don’t know what you are talking about other than DNC talking points.

Where I would start is with why we have recessions, what causes them or cures them, and why some get worse than others.

To start out with a statement that blames a recession on a President or gives credit to a President for coming out of one are a non-starters if you understand fundamental capitalism.

I don’t know what state she lives in but in New York that person would be arrested for driving with an uninsured motor vehicle and would face criminal penalities. In NYS there is no fault insurance and it does not matter whose fault it is her insurance company pays all the damages.

Ah ha. Here is the kicker – “threatens putting people in jail if they can afford insurance, but don’t buy it.”

It sounds like the government will be the ultimate decision maker on whether YOU can afford insurance, not you. And I doubt they’re going to be real accepting of exclusions of that policy for extenuating financial circumstances.

Well done.

This policy and its legislation is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

This is the greatest federal government overreach in modern American history and defies all tenants of the founding and fabric of this country.

There are problems in the healthcare system which are tied to unchecked ambulance chasing attorneys and to state insurance regulations. Fix those macro problems and healthcare costs will actually decline.

It is the intent of Obama’s crowd to nationalize healthcare which has grossly failed in Canada and the UK.

If I don’t pay for health insurance and the government sends me to jail, will the prison supply me with health insurance for free? Just wondering….

This bill is insane and the longer these bozo’s are in power the more they will try to run our lives. Howard Dean calls this the “new” Democratic Party. Give me back the old one, or better yet, we need a stronger more viable Independent party.

Larry, you previously wrote that some people knowingly don’t buy health insurance, choosing instead to gamble that they don’t get sick.

When they do, the rest of have to cover their bad bet, not much different than AIG.

Mandating insurance coverage isn’t a gross breach of the Bill of Rights. Lighten up.

Let’s see…

If you choose to own and drive a car, you are legally bound by State and/or local statutes to have automotive insurance. Let’s disregard the whole “enforcement” question for now (not to mention how many “illegal” drivers there are out there). Let’s also disregard that it is the states that issue Driver’s Licenses, not the Federal government.

So, if you choose to live and breath, you will be legally bound by the Federal Gov’t to have health insurance. If you don’t, then you could be both fined and jailed! Interesting.

When does that apply? At birth for newborns? Presume the parents will be liable, on top of having to pay for the birthing services (plus fines if they are not insured). At the time when you get you learner’s permit – might as well get used to footing all your insurance bills at the same time. Perhaps when your 18? At 21? Upon completion of college? When you leave home (and never leave so your parents are stuck with your bill until they pass).

It could go on and on.

I’m sure the first constitutional challenge to this will be filed before the ink dries on the POTUS’ signature.

If the government wants to help, why don’t they help solve the problem on the supply side of the equation? More doctors, more nurses, more nursing teachers = increase supply, lowers ultimate cost and more competition on the side of demand. Why not put public resources where they can help solve these problems instead of simply trying to dictate the demand side? Not a socialistic power grab my ass. dave

so, and create an whole new class of criminal the administration can pursue and put in prison.
What if ya just cannot afford insurance?
The tale told in Les Miserables comes to mind where one is chased forever for not having insurance by some minor beaurecrat on a mission.

Kucinich’s bill went down in flames. The anti-public options forces won. Must keep the insurance companies bloated with money, ya know.

Well, having the vet as a health care provider would be a good thing for me..LOL My vet treats my horses and vaccinates my dogs and makes house calls to do it. Can’t say that about any doctor these days. Oh, and he is a lot cheaper than most doctors, too. The last time I had him out here it cost $114, that included the call fee, the examination of the horse, treatment, a jar of Bute powder for the horse being treated, and a 100 mg bottle of Banamine for future colics. I would like to meet the doctor who would make a house call, treat the patient, and leave two prescriptions for that price.

“The fact is there ARE other fed govt. mandates we live with each and every day.”

That’s NOT a good reason to just keep adding more and more, ad infinitum.

Paying taxes so the country can run is one thing. Having security at our airports so people don’t get blown up is one thing. Being forced to buy a product that I don’t want from a private company is entirely another.

It mirrors what happened to education. The system was dumbed down so that it became all inclusive. If the new dems want to see a socialistic paradigm in action all they have to do is look at the school system.

Instead of asking that students rise to the task of learning the system was tweaked downward in requirements and subjects covered. The system then says they have AP classes for the truly educationally oriented. What a plum for very few teachers to teach an AP class!

Now everyone complains that “Johnny really can’t read!” Why? Teachers aren’t teaching. They are too busy taking care of other issues because the one who will not benefit from the course material beyond a socialization standpoint is sitting next to the one who doesn’t speak english and is only interested sending money home while his girlfriend sometime attends the Young Mothers classes in the basement of the school. The police officer stationed in the hallways is on the lookout for violence and drugs because, after all, those gangbangers and behaviorally challenged kids are given the right to interfere with everyone else’s education.

If you want a glimpse into the future, go visit a inner city school.

You miss the point donjo. Nobody is federally mandated to work (yet), and nobody is mandated to wear shoes. There’s nothing to prevent someone from wearing only socks, or flip-flops to the airport, but of course, nobody is mandated to go to the airport in the first place.

We ALL have bodies, even apparently the Transcendant One, Obama. And since we all suffer from this severe earthly limitation, we will all be required to insure the bodies within which we dwell. And since I assume that mental health will also fall under this oppressive law, we’ll also be compelled to insure our minds. Welcome to “1984″.

That’s my point Doc. If health insurance were calculated on individual risk, the homeless chain smoking alcoholic would be required to pay a great deal more than the healthy rich guy with a personal trainer.

Exactly.

It’s like a tax on breathing. Having to pay just to exist.

If I don’t work, I don’t have to pay taxes (other than sales tax). If I don’t have a car, I don’t have to pay car insurance.

So let’s say I choose to take 6 months off to go volunteer somewhere, somewhere that might offer me free room and board, and heck, just for argument’s sake, let’s say it’s some sort of holistic health facility where I would get all the health care I wanted.

But still I am forced to keep paying money to an insurance company just because I am alive and breathing?

That is total BS.

Be careful, six months of free room and board could be considered income, and you’ll need to calculate the value of that R&B and declare it on your tax return. I’m not kidding.

Larry, Im with you on this 100%. Driving a car is a privilege, not a RIGHT. It makes sense if you want to drive your own car you must obtain insurance. If you choose not to pay for insurance then you use public transportation.

The health care bill is unconstitutional. Watch as the people rise up. People will not pay. And giving the IRS the authority to fine and imprison people is out of this world. I ask one question to all the obamacrats out there, Is this the change you wanted? I for one will not pay. My family will not pay. My brothers and sisters will not pay. Most of my colleagues have stated they will not pay. (Im talking 25+ people so far, some of whom regret voting for obama) The democrats have over stepped their bounds and will be severely punished!

You can try and drag me to prison, but I as an AMERICAN possess a RIGHT called the second amendment. BRING IT…

Think about how healthy a fugitive would be if he were constantly running from the law!

Work for someone else, that is…

With the huge cost of incarnation and the jails already chock full to the gills with prisoners how does criminalizing health insurance make sense as a matter of public policy? (rhetorical)

The jail/fine question aside, it is no trivial matter as someone suggested above whether or not forcing people to purchase something may violate our basic freedoms/Constitution as well as the state’s rights and other important issues such as the slippery slope of what’s next from these corporate fascist wolves in socialist sheep’s clothing.

No, I get what you’re saying and agree that trying to stay healthy is the best “policy”. I’ve tried to take that approach. Still, a few years back I found myself in the hospital with a ruptured appendix. Four days later I was back home, having run up a $35,000 bill, thankful both to be recovering and to have had good health insurance. It made me realize what a prolonged serious illness could do to almost any family, no matter how hard-working and responsible they’ve been.

BTW, I’d been back and forth to the doctor for over a week before I finally got a phone call at 1 AM advising me to go directly to the hospital for emergency surgery. The GP had just gotten my MRI report and suddenly realized why I was getting sicker, despite the lessening pain.

Yttik,
Brilliant insight. You nailed it dude. I laughed.
LJ

And since they will have direct access to your medical records and your tax returns and your bank accounts, they will determine how much of your income will be extracted from your bank account to cover all the things that may happen to you based on your DNA/medical profile. Get it now?

It is against the Amish religion to buy insurance. Are we going to throw all the Amish in jail.?

The Amish don’t buy insurance? Where can I sign up to be Amish!

This is exactly what I did. I had a wreck and advised the law and the agrieved idiot I hit that I didn’t have insurance….but, in the approved ideology of the Democratic Party….I advised them that Larry johnson (the old guy, not the running back) my brother-in-law, would foot the bill. I figured he would bo along with this in the spirit of ‘redistribution of th wealth’, but I was sorely mistaken. The dirty sonuvabich wouldn’t pay for my wreck! I tried to bargain with him and have him put me on his policy….and the little shit refused again. He can be a fairly unreasonable bastard.

On a serious note, this whole issue is a bit over the top. As far as I can tell in my study of this country’s history nothing like this has ever been mandated; but it surely goes to the heart of a basic Democrat precept. The precept is that everyone needs to share. On the surface of this, it seems a golden idea, but in this case it is carried to a ridiculous extreme.

I had a wreck and expected LJ (my brother-in-law)…not the running back…would pay for it. Boy, was I stupid. That sumbich wouldn’t fork over a dime. What a let-down!

Seriously, the thought that one would go to jail if they didn’t have insurance is ridiculous..not just wrong…it’s retarded. But, I tried to read the health care bill the other day. It can’t be done. It is not readable and not interpretable. We may have just given birth to a new generation of ‘ambulance chaser’ lawyers….that is, lawyers specializing in challenging the vague bullshit in this bill.

It is against the Amish religion to buy insurance. Are we going to throw all the Amish in jail.?

I looked at the bill and it appears there is an exemption for recognized religious groups. I hope the Congress critters realize that includes the Church of Satan.

Seriously, I once downloaded the complete IRS list of exempt organizations and I recall seeing them listed.

Related: this is ripe for someone to research and write an expose if not already done: Is Obama now giving “faith based” funding to extremist groups? When Bush II created that abomination I knew it was a dangerous slippery slope. “Constitutional scholar” my ass.

“Everybody needs to share.”

What a concept. Now, if you were trying to argue that Goldman Sachs needs to share their $30 Billion in bonuses this year [or whatever the theft amount was], then I might go for it!

But, you know, Goldmine Sachs doesn’t BELIEVE in “sharing” unless it’s taxpayers sharing with them.

Sharing is never a two-way street for Kings or Tyrants. Or Oligarchs. Or dying empires.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/

i was wondering the same thing. if this bill passes against the wishes of a majority of americans, can we sue the government for forcing this on us? where the hell is the ACLU? i dont understand why we cant have a national vote on this? if the dems are so sure most americans want this then they shouldnt be afraid to take a vote.unfortunately many people are under the assumption that healthcare is going to be free. ITS NOT! It will cost as much as private insurance, if not more, and we will get less care.

they are already crying that the jails are overcrowded and want to set free many inmates (partularly the ones in for crack cocaine) obama wants them to go into “community service” . like acorn and his private volunteer army. yeah these are the people we want to be as “well funded and well armed as the military” (obamas own words). this is getting crazier and crazier by the minute. we have got to stop the madness NOW!!

[...] Health Insurance Ain’t Car Insurance : NO QUARTER [...]

yeah,The biggest driver to reduce healthcare costs are tort reform.