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Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Will Destroy Obama

Attorney General Eric Holder’s announcement last Friday that five prisoners currently held at Guantanmo will be put on trial in a civilian Federal court in New York City is absolute lunacy. I say this as one who rejects the Bush Administration nonsense that we “can’t fight terrorism with law enforcement methods.” We can and we have. Just ask Timothy McVeigh (oh wait, he was executed), the Blind Sheikh (aka Abdul Rahman), Hakim Murad, and Ramsi Yousef just to mention four.

But it is not or should not be an “either/or” choice. An effective counter terrorism strategy and policy requires a mix of tools and capabilities–intelligence operations, special military operations, diplomacy and sanctions. We should use all power in our possession to go after those who want to kill innocent civilians.

So what in the hell are Holder and Obama thinking? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has been in US custody since his capture by the CIA back in March of 2003. The Bush Administration failed to put him on trial and subject him to a military tribunal. No excuse. Gross incompetence. But the incompetence of the Bushies is no excuse for new incompetence by the Obamatroids.

Andrew McCarthy was a prosecutor in the Southern District of New York and had direct experience in prosecuting Islamic radicals. In his most recent piece at the National Review he writes:

The decision to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other top al-Qaeda terrorists to New York City for a civilian trial is one of the most irresponsible ever made by a presidential administration. That it is motivated by politics could not be more obvious. That it spells unprecedented danger for our security will soon become obvious.

The five 9/11 plotters were originally charged in a military commission. Military commissions have been approved by Congress and the courts. Eleven months ago, the jihadists were prepared to end the military case by pleading guilty and proceeding to execution. Plus, the Obama administration is continuing the commission system for other enemy combatants accused of war crimes. If we are going to have military commissions for any war criminals, it is senseless not to have them for the worst war criminals. In sum, there is no good legal or policy rationale for transferring these barbarians to the civilian justice system. Doing so will prompt a hugely costly three-ring circus of a trial, provide a soapbox for al-Qaeda’s anti-American bile, and create a public-safety nightmare for New York City.

There is, however, a patent political rationale behind Obama’s decision.

The terrorists are clearly committed members of the al-Qaeda conspiracy to wage a terrorist war against the United States — so much so that KSM cannot help himself, bragging about his atrocities against our country, including the 9/11 massacre of nearly 3,000 Americans. Further, controversy surrounds the intelligence-collection measures used by the Bush administration after 9/11 — measures such as enhanced interrogation that, though they saved countless lives, have been stridently condemned by the antiwar Left. This antiwar Left, President Obama’s base, has demanded investigations and prosecutions against Bush officials.

The Obama Justice Department teems with experienced defense lawyers, many of whom (themselves personally or through their firms) spent the last eight years volunteering their services to America’s enemies in their lawsuits against the American people. As experienced defense lawyers well know, when there is no mystery about whether the defendants have committed the charged offenses, and when there is controversy attendant to the government’s investigative tactics, the standard defense strategy is to put the government on trial.

That is, Pres. Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, experienced litigators, fully realize that in civilian court, the Qaeda quintet can and will demand discovery of mountains of government intelligence. They will demand disclosures about investigative tactics; the methods and sources by which intelligence has been obtained; the witnesses from the intelligence community, the military, and law enforcement who interrogated witnesses, conducted searches, secretly intercepted enemy communications, and employed other investigative techniques. They will attempt to compel testimony from officials who formulated U.S. counterterrorism strategy, in addition to U.S. and foreign intelligence officers. As civilian “defendants,” these war criminals will put Bush-era counterterrorism tactics under the brightest public spotlight in American legal history.

This is exactly what President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder know will happen. And because it is unnecessary to have this civilian trial at all, one must conclude that this is exactly what Obama and Holder want to see happen.

I think Andy is right. Unlike Andy I think the Bush Administration did commit war crimes and did besmirch our system of justice. But their venality ought to be dealt with separately. Putting this batch of terrorists on trial in a civilian court is fraught with great peril and will likely fail (I hope I’m wrong). The jury selection alone will be an almost impossible task. In fact, the defendants will have every right to argue for a change of venue. And can you imagine the kinds of people who are likely to wind up on the jury? The jury certainly won’t include anyone who lost a friend or relative in the 9-11 attacks. If you have a family or friend in the military who has fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, forget about it.

However, I fully expect a 9-11 truther to make his or her way onto the jury. That’ll be a hoot. Perhaps KSM will have a field day arguing that Israel actually carried out the attacks on World Trade Center.

As this circus unfolds and the defendants appear to triumph the stupidity of the Obama Administration will become more apparent. Instead of Barack Obama reigning triumphant over the justice system imposing a well-deserved sentence of death, the muslim defendants are likely to become sympathetic victims. This will, justifiably so, enrage many Americans and will expose Obama as a naive simpleton. Of course it looks like Iran, North Korea, Chavez and the Russians have already figured that out. A debacle with KSM will be the icing on the cake that solidifies Barack Obama as the Jimmy Carter of the 21st Century. Not the kind of hope change you want to believe in. Right?

  • Doc99

    And waiting in the wings, Immigration Reform, Part Deux.

    • Ladydawnelle

      I’m not afraid to admit – I HOPE your headline is 100percent correct!!!!

      I want him to be FORCED to step DOWN (for corruption & incompetence)

      SOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!

      • Galt goes to Hollywood

        Don’t hold your breath waiting for this to transpire. I was hoping something similar would happen to Dubya for Iraq War II. Good thing I did not hold my breath waiting for justice to happen. :D

        Presidents waltz away from their bad acts and open libraries in their own name. :P

      • elizabethrc

        About the only possibility of that happening is if Obama racks up so many embarrassments and missteps that it begins to effect Democrats in Congress. Their first loyalty is to themselves and if he starts sinking them (I think it’s already happening)I wouldn’t be surprised to see them throw him under that bus. Actually, I think he may well be throwing himself under the bus. Does he really want this job? I’m beginning to doubt it, now that he’s found out that it requires real work.

        • Galt goes to Hollywood

          Rove (who predicted fairly accurately the outcome of the last presidential election) was speculating Obama is willing to sacrifice Dems in the midterm gambling he’ll keep enough seats for the majority.

          Excerpt from recent Rove article:

          FULL ARTICLE: http://bit.ly/3lkXnG

          Maybe the Obama inner sanctum realizes that its agenda is unpopular and will cost many Democrats their seats next year but calculates that enough will survive to keep the party in control of Congress. Perhaps they have decided that Mr. Obama’s goal of turning America into a European-style social democracy is worth risking a voter revolt.

          Bots, please spare me the shoot the messenger (both Rove and I). Truth is truth, wherever you find it: left, right or center.

    • tek

      Doc: that will be the thing that undoes him. I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t rip the country apart.

    • Onofre’s arm

      If Obama succeeds with his plans to turn this country in to a socialistic third world nightmare, illegal immigration will no longer be an issue. When our country becomes economically on the same level as Mexico, all of the illegals here will head south where it is at least warmer and they speak the same language.

  • lizzy

    Your points make a lot of sense. Too bad we have slimy vengeful idiots making the decisions. Past stupidity doesn’t justify current insanity.

  • Galt goes to Hollywood

    A debacle with KSM will be the icing on the cake that solidifies Barack Obama as the Jimmy Carter of the 21st Century. Not the kind of hope change you want to believe in. Right?

    The braindead on the far-left will love this outcome.

    This result will empower and embolden the braindead on the far-right to re-take power. We’ll go from Bush II, to Obama then to “Bush III” of some sort.

    We had a chance to break this cycle with a centrist. But criminals saw to it we lost this most golden of opportunities.

    Larry, my heart is shattered having to witness this!

    • hokma

      This could be such a Waterloo for Obama that it might negate his ability for re-election and open up a possibility for a Democratic challenge in 2012,

      I heard and read Hillary’s comment on this issue and I would not regard it as a complete endorsement.

      • Ellen

        not an endorsement? excuse me, what would you call it then? she clearly endorsed what Holder is doing – why do you spin anything your beloved says or does when its not what you think, or, better yet, when it agrees with Obama?

        • Anee

          Done, done, done, with the Clintons. After BO trashed her in the elections, BO called Bill a racist, when will they stop believing in the One? Face it people, HC is not planning any TA-DAH moment and she is not magically going to pick up BO’s pieces of his mess when he falls.
          Moving on ….

          • Docelder

            when will they stop believing in the One?

            They don’t believe in Obama. He is a useful i.d.i.o.t to them right now. He needed Hillary to place the Clinton rubber stamp his socialist agenda, and Hillary thinks she can do so and still be seen as the “go to” person without permanently tainting herself. I think it’s a fools game and that she is done. If not by Obama directly, then by association with him. The heavy lifting of diplomacy right now is going to be with Arab and African cultures that face it… they don’t value or respect women much. Obama is just dangling her out to look weak. He needed the Clinton’s to win, he used them and in the end he will outplay them. Hillary can’t play as dirty as Obama can, because black trumps female right now. She can’t even honestly cry in public without being attacked for it. But Obama could and it would almost come across as if the tears were whip scars. If Hillary does what Obama does she would be labeled with the “b” word or the “r” word or both… or worse by the media. I won’t go further because, it doesn’t matter one way or another anymore. They Clinton’s are history. Same as the Bush’s. History. I just hope the Obama’s are history before our republic is history. Right now, it is a horse race.

            • Anee

              Agree completely. I expected more of HC, she is much more intelligent and experienced than the One, so when she said she “welcomed” the trial to NY, then I knew she was done with politics. I need to move on from HC, I campaigned for her, gave her so much money, and now she just disappoints. Call me names or whatever, that just how I feel.

              • westexan

                Fool US once shame on US. Fool US twice shame on them. I, too, thought the world of the Clintons. Some things are just too hard to believe. Wonder what has became of Chelsia? Does she agree with her parents?

              • tek

                ANee: hard to soar like an eagle when you’re surrounded by turkeys. Lighten up on Hillary.

                • Anee

                  Who made her go fly with the turkeys? She should have just stayed in the senate, no one forced her to join the Obama disaster.

  • Mandelay

    Related info regarding Judge Duffy who presided over the trial of perps of the 1993 World Trade Center attack.

    http://www.asininity.com/archives/A2006061/

  • DeeLee

    So we publicly make martyrs of them, resulting in another few thousand radicals that will want to avenge their sacrifice to Allah. meanwhile the JAGs can go back to sleep cos it’s going to be handed off to Obama cronies (prosecution and defence lawyers)who will clean up to the tune of multi-millions of tax payer dollars.
    As for moving the other prisoners into the states, we already paid millions for Gitmo upgrades, now we’re going to do it all over again for a prison in Illinois. Hmmm! is this a little kick-back to his old cronies?

  • http://www.sonicninjakitty.wordpress.com Sonic Ninja Kitty

    Where would the best place/best type of trial be?

    • obiewankenobe

      Anywhere exept NYC!

    • TeakWoodKite

      In the open door of a Huey above the pit.

    • lorac

      Oh, geez – the Atlantis blasted off today – we should have strapped them on and had their trial up there! Maybe just keep them in perpetual orbit forever lol

  • obiewankenobe

    Can anybody say O.J.Simpson ? They will likely get a mistrial on the first go round, ( Costing our dead broke Govt. AT LEAST $ 500 MILLION DOLLARS!) It will take many years to finish with a clean verdict. Multiple appeals going forward into the future indefinitely! Most death row inmates typically live at least 20 years before the sentence is carried out. And AL-Qaeda will be kidnapping and beheading Americans For the entire time that they are incarcerated. Endless terrorist scares in NYC will follow as well. I say give them a trial in military court with drum head justice!

    • Bronwyn’s Harbor

      Great, great points. The cost will be prohibitive. That alone should make Mayor Bloomberg pause — instead, he’s endorse this travesty. And the fool actually thinks his people can handle any danger.

      McCarthy is spot on with this: “That it is motivated by politics could not be more obvious.”

      Larry, this is a great post. All your posts are so thought-provoking, but this one enrages me like few things in life. I dare not look over at Daily Kos to see them prattling on about the “rule of law,” etc. There, I wrote diaries, nearly daily, railing against the torture methods employed by the Bush administration, but I was also sickened — revolted and repulsed — by the defendants’ actions. But a lot of the lefties have more sympathy for their rights than for the safety of U.S. citizens. But then, that’s because it’s still “in” to denigrate the U.S., anytime, for any reason. As terrible as the torture was, and as foolish as it was, I feel I must be a patriot first and, for that reason and others, see NO problem with a military tribunal for those defendants.

      • Galt goes to Hollywood

        The cost will be prohibitive.

        Obysmal could care less about financial and human costs as long as his agenda is served. He spent millions to scam the election and abused millions of human beings to get what he wanted. The man has a deep hollow cavity for a soul.

        • lorac

          Putting aside the issue of military tribunal vs. criminal trial, I’d be interested in knowing (1) who made the decision to have the trial in New York, and (2) were the authorities in NY asked first?

          But, could it really ever be held in NY? How could they find an “impartial jury” in the city of the attacks? So, if it’s most likely that the venue would be changed, what does it mean that they “chose” New York, knowing that it probably wouldn’t happen there? Just trying to upset people….? (a kind of “emotional fly-by”?)

          • tango

            Oh hell, I figure they’ll request a change of venue to Chicago. If the detainees are held in Illinois, it’d only make sense huh? That way Obama can line the pockets of all his Chicago and Illinois cronies.

            • susan h

              The idiots in charge already plan to release the Gitmo detainees to Thomson Correctional Center in Illinois, which is too close to where I live in Chicago for comfort. Then a whole village of mosques and “believers” will relocate to that area to circle the wagons of the detainees. After all, everyone in this country has “rights”, even those who would attempt to take away rights of others by murder.

              The KSM trial in NY will be a thorn in the side and it’s Obama’s way again of tormenting the victims of 9/11 who he does not sympathize with. Remember he said, If something happens, I will side with the muslims. Well something has happened, and we know which side he is on…

          • Galt goes to Hollywood

            I can speculate as a layperson (non-lawyer):

            (1) who made the decision to have the trial in New York

            The buck stops here: Prezidunce Obysmal. When his decision proves top be a disaster as is SOP, he will blame someone else like the family dog or the newspaper girl/boy.

            (2) were the authorities in NY asked first?

            If you mean like the mayor, I seriously doubt that. State and local rights and sentiment are not of concern. Obysmal’s agenda is all that must be served.

            But, could it really ever be held in NY?

            Yes, but the defense will most likely seek a change of venue as happened in the Mcveigh trial. It was moved from OK to Denver.

            How could they find an “impartial jury” in the city of the attacks?

            IMO they can’t.

            So, if it’s most likely that the venue would be changed, what does it mean that they “chose” New York, knowing that it probably wouldn’t happen there?

            Good question. People will come up with a grand conspiracy but I think its possible they just screwed up.

            Just trying to upset people….? (a kind of “emotional fly-by”?)

            Possible.

            • jwrjr

              Why choose New York? It seems likely that McCarthy has the answer. Odisaster thinks that he can make political points by bringing the five murderers back to face “justice” in front of the people who lost loved ones to their attack. Good luck finding an impartial jury (no offense intended to New Yorkers)… maybe under a rock or in a cave someplace?

  • http://! stodgie

    what a crock! thanks larry for addressing this issue with your usual fortitude and clear analysis.

  • Freedom Fighter

    Looks like Hillary Clinton is supporting the trial. Either it’s a smart thing to do, or she is going down with the ship. I am betting, someone as smart as Obama, knows what he is doing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk_C8XlnhD0

    • TeakWoodKite

      A fool and his money are soon parted. Bye FF.

    • http://! stodgie

      ff, please! you are pathetic. hillary is so much smarter than that simpleton you call potus. heck he can’t even get the proper hello with world dignitaries right. stupid! he is so busy being an idiot he fails to see the world is turning against him.

    • confusedinAmerica

      I think for some reason Hillary and Bill sold their soul to Obama…thats why I am so disappointed with her.

      • lorac

        I can’t even imagine a reason why they would…. so my running hypothesis would be that they didn’t…

        • VRWC – Am I really saying this? Dept.

          Hillary’s support for Holder’s decision seems decidedly, notably, thankfully pro forma and weak. http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=GdqG8zuz4z.

          • Galt goes to Hollywood

            Dragging Hillary into this thread is a silly troll diversion. It’s Obysmal’s decision and his responsibility. End of story.

            • Freedom Fighter

              I was just pointing out the cognitive dissonance of Hillary supporters. How can you attack Obama and praise Hillary when they are aligned on the same issue?

              • http://www.hillaryorbust.com Hillary or Bust

                “How can you attack Obama and praise Hillary when they are aligned on the same issue?”

                You presume too much.

                I’m not praising Hillary. In fact, I haven’t in a while. Even though she’s the namesake of my blog I am deeply disappointed in her for not fighting the fake DNC “nomination” of Obama and then becoming his SOS.

                I realize sometimes you do things for political expediency, but my respect for her dropped a lot because of these things.

                I still think she would be a better president than Obama. I don’t fault her for standing by him now that she’s chosen this route. She’s his SOS – it would be bad for her if she publicly criticized him on this.

                But I’m not happy with her choice to be part of his administration.

                So no cognitive dissonance here, buddy.

                • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                  She merely said she wasn’t going to “second guess” Holder’s decision. The legalities of this case go beyond any “Hillary Love” or “Obama disgust.

                  She wasn’t creating any cognitive dissonance in anyone, but rather responded as a lawyer.

                  There’s no cognitive dissonance regarding this. Cognitive dissonance is what obots are experiencing in still believing that Obama is doing a good job as president despite all the indicators that his presidency is in trouble. ie: the jobless rate, the lack of job creation with the stimulus package, the protocol blunders, the unpopular healthcare bill, the IRS stimulus money that will now have to be paid back, the poor public relation decisions regarding the allies of the US, the false numbers of jobs reported, the Van Jones fiasco, the Anita Dunn fiasco, the expose of the czars and their marxist leanings, …..do we need to go on?

                  Still believe Obama is a successful president? Yes? Now that’s cognitive dissonance in action!!

                  • lorac

                    “Cognitive dissonance is what obots are experiencing in still believing that Obama is doing a good job as president despite all the indicators that his presidency is in trouble. ”

                    Well said.

                    • Freedom Fighter

                      Maybe you haven’t heard or follow the news closely, but President Obama is working hard to clean up the worst economic mess, left for him to clean up since the great depression. Had McCain or Hillary won the election, I am sure the unemployment rate would be over 15%. President Obama has saved millions of jobs.

                    • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                      Ask you handlers for new talking points. We’ve heard them all from you Obaka – what the japanese are calling Obama – baka is loosely translated to “idiot” – droids.

                      Seriously, do you believe your own butt smoke?

                    • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                      The rest of the busness world and the folks actually crunching the numbers are in disagreement with you.

                      Tell your handlers to give you some new propaganda. The “Obama is saving the nation” meme is beyond old.

                    • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                      The rest of the business world and the folks actually crunching the numbers are in disagreement with you.

                      Tell your handlers to give you some new propaganda. The “Obama is saving the nation” meme is beyond old.

                    • carol haka

                      Thanks FF. I needed a good laugh!

                      CAROL HAKA :evil:

                    • ~~JustMe~~

                      Hey FF “Whiner Blogger” you hijack every thread with your whine whine whine. You’re like a broken record that never ends and gets stuck in a rut. UGH!

                      Are u talking about those false job numbers in different states where the districts don’t even exist?

                      You’re a laughing stock repeating the same old theme and thank god we don’t live with you have to be the most boring person posting here.
                      at a guess you go to bed chanting the same mantra each night and wake up to blog the same stuff each day. You need to get to grips with reality!

                      As always Larry great post sad FF “The Whiner” hijacks most of the posts here.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Maybe you haven’t heard, FF, but the economy is in shambles, the unemployment rate is closer to 20%, the housing market is getting worse not better, tax receipts are in the toilet and Obama’s response?

                      Spend more money and party with Wall St.

                      And btw, this is the Great Depression, part 2. You Obamatrons better take off the rose-colored glasses. Better yet, go over to the Daily Kos and read one of your own diarists Bob Swern and get a dose of reality before you start lecturing anyone here.

              • Galt goes to Hollywood

                What part of “End of story” do you fail to comprehend? This thread is about KSM and Obama’s decision. Sorry, I won’t take troll bait.

                • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                  Cognitive dissonance is believing that Obama will be elected for a second term!

                  • Galt goes to Hollywood

                    I don’t consider he was elected to the first. It was bought and stolen. I pray you are correct.

                    • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                      Ah, the conundrum.

            • http://! stodgie

              thanks gault, excellent point.

          • lorac

            I don’t know why they’re always bringing up what Hillary “doesn’t say” (well, actually, I think I DO know), because as long as she is SOS, she is extremely limited in what she can say, in expressing her own opinions if they differ from the LiarInCheat.

            • Freedom Fighter

              It’s funny how you people are ignoring what Hillary is actually saying, and inventing what you think she is thinking. Also funny how you people don’t take what she says seriously. You are turning her into a laughable caricature.

              • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                If you actually listen to the clips, her words are…”I’m not going to second guess…”. That doesn’t imply compliance. It simply is lawyer speak for she’s not going to give an opinion.

                Nuance of the language. It’s something lawyers are very, very good at.

                • Galt goes to Hollywood

                  Nuance of the language. It’s something lawyers are very, very good at.

                  And trolls are incapable of understanding or ignore when it suits their agenda. :P

              • lorac

                FF – do you honestly believe that Hillary is free to speak her mind while SOS? Even in domestic issues? Tell me how she could do that? You’re just trying to set her up for a double bind.

                Sheesh – furthermore, if she DID, you guys would be all over her for not SUPPORTING your hero.

                I can hear it now:

                - oh, she’s going rogue!
                - oh, she’s not a team player!
                - oh, she’s just bitter and trying to
                get him back!
                - oh, she’s trying to UPSTAGE him!
                - oh she thinks she knows more than the
                President! (she does)
                - OH OH OH She’s committing TREASON!!!

                • Freedom Fighter

                  Perhaps, but at least you people would be able to hold her up as an example of integrity and principle. But instead, the best spin you can offer up is that she is acting like a weasel with her lawyer talk.

                  • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

                    That’s your opinion.

                    Guess how much we value your opinion…

                    • Portia Elizabeth

                      Buzz, you say so much in just the right number of words.

              • hc123

                Its funny how much you talk about Hillary Clinton, Freedom Fighter. You bring her up all the time. Buyers remorse maybe?

                • Docelder

                  It’s the rationalized defense that Hillary would be the same right now as Obama is. It is just a play on the tired old… at least he’s not Bush. Except it’s… He’s the same as Hillary would have been. The point I am making is the man can’t stand on his own merits because there aren’t any aside from the historical value of his appointment. I say appointment, yes because we all know he didn’t get there on his own.

      • tek

        confused: if you truly believe your statement, you are confused indeed–and not paying very close attention. The Clintons can’t stand Obama; they worry what he’ll do to this country; they stay in the mix as much as possible to try and keep him from destroying America.

        • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

          By how? Sending Bill to pitch his POS health care bill in the Senate? I was kinda hoping the convo would have went something like this….

          ::Phone Rings::

          Bill: Hello?
          Obama: Hey, Bill, need a favor from you..
          Bill: Wait, didn’t you call me a racist…?
          Obama: I….errr……well……I…ahhh….
          Bill: …and didn’t you flip off my wife?
          Obama:…well…er….it was the silly season in DC….err…..ahhh….
          Bill: ….fuck off and don’t call me again, and I swear to God, if it wasn’t for my our secret service detail I would have kicked your ass months ago…CLICK

    • Bronwyn’s Harbor

      No. She parsed her words very, very carefully. She can’t come right out with what she really thinks, but she did not explicitly endorse this insane decision. (Btw, Joe Scarborough, who defended Hillary a lot during the campaign, is the one who brought this out about Hillary’s remarks on the KSM/NYC controversy — he saw that she said what a member of the administration must without endorsing the decision.)

    • jwrjr

      Ah, FF – forgotten but not gone.

    • JRD

      They do not come any dumber than Dumb-0. There is nothing but space between those BIG DUMB-0 EARS!

  • arky

    You’re absolutely right Larry. I see nothing but trouble with this plan to try them in civilian court. My first thought was “What if they are aquitted?” Won’t the court have to throw out any evidence gained by “enhanced interrigation?” What evidence is left??
    PS Larry, you look cute in your new picture. ;)

  • VRWC – Non-Contrarian Dept.

    I was kind of hoping that Larry, as contrarian, like Potemra at National Review, would see a positive side to this, like it could be a good idea. A ray of hope etc.

    Instead Larry thinks that it’s KRRREP! Just like I think, except for the Bush war-crimes claims. Why Obama talking krrrep?!. Effin’ politics. As Andy Cuomo said years ago, treating 9/11 like a highway bill issue. Obama never even handled an issue of a train station in a mass-transit system. Insane Chicago Way, directed by an empty set/suit. Definitely depressing.

    • VRWC – Trivia Dept.

      And I’m a quite hetero guy etc., but I strongly agree with other commenter, the new photo of Larry is definitely an improvement.

      • mountainaires

        I agree, I like the new photo. Just my vote. :-)

        • http://www.blockmastersecurity.com USB Security

          Larry look nice in the photo.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Larry , you mentioned in a post mid summer that you were very concerned about inter-agency co-operation.

    I can’t imagine how this helps, if the CIA knows that many of the legally valid efforts of the Intel community has made in defense of this nation will be fodder for civil discovery.

    It has the potential to make the Valerie Wilson debacle look like child’s play.

    Correct me if I am off base, but doesn’t this make the “wall” more inflexible and inteagency co-operation grind to a crawl?

    A number of people I have spoken with recently are under the impression that the FBI were the ones to arrest KSM and party in Pakistan, so they should tried in Federal court.
    Not my argument but thats the vinyl ’45 single that selling. Does it bother any one that Holder should have recused himself, as his firm was responsible for defending many of these jihadists?

    I am sadly bemused at the politicalization of this FUBAR. As a side note, one day I would like to hear what Fitzgerald and Mary Jo White

    In 1995 he relied on a Civil-War era sedition law to convict blind Egyptian cleric Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others of plotting bomb attacks on New York landmarks, including the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. In May 2001, he convicted four men of bombing the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. The 1998 bombings killed more than 200 people. After those attacks, Fitzgerald was assigned to a team building a criminal case against Osama bin Laden

    .
    http://www.whorunsgov.com/Profiles/Patrick_Fitzgerald

    • TeakWoodKite

      I would like to hear what Fitzgerald and Mary Jo White have to say. They’ve been there done that.

    • Bronwyn’s Harbor

      Who’s the prosecutor for this? I haven’t heard mention of his/her name. Wish Fitzgerald were the lead on this case.

  • Galt goes to Hollywood

    Pat B.’s article on KSM and risks of trial:

    http://buchanan.org/blog/is-america-at-war-3018

    • TeakWoodKite

      The set for this Block Buster Epic will larger than the one for “Gone With the Wind”.

      I am wondering if a challenge can be made to SCOTUS to prevent the government from using the federal courts, ie do they have standing in a federal court or is this a Military one?

      Not sure if Hamdan v Rummy answered that one definitively.

  • Cathy in Ks.

    Larry, I agree with you that this is a major blunder on the part of the Obama administration. But I think you’re being too nice about Holder and Obama’s motivations. I don’t think they are simpletons or fools. I think their decision was well thought out. I think they deliberately decided to play dice with the safety of New Yorkers and American citizens everywhere in order to score political points. This is not naivete – this is evil and I think many Americans are seeing that this administration is not just incompetent, but they are callous and indifferent to the needs of the citizens they are supposed to be serving.

    • Georgia

      You’no what Cathy…….. Sadly I agree with you :(

    • Bronwyn’s Harbor

      Spot on. And it makes it all the more sickening.

  • HARP

    This is what Obama gets for listening to ALL the voices in his head at the same time.

  • Pingback: hoot hoot

  • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

    I bet Obama has one of those T-shirts that say, “I do what the voices tell me to do.” on it.

    I wonder what Obama would be like on a Thorazine drip.

  • IndianaDem

    Maybe they’re going to issue their public statements and enter guilty pleas at the arraignment or before trial, to expedite their martyrdom.

    The normal assumption that the accused want to conceal what they’ve done and avoid the death penalty doesn’t apply here. They might also figure all the details that would come out during the course of lengthy civil trials would diminish their stature in the eyes of their intended audience.

  • hokma

    They are doing this for three reasons:

    1. To put the Bush administration in the cross hairs of the worldwide media for the 2010 and even 2012 elections.

    2. To have the CIA on trial.

    3. To announce to radical islamists that Obama does not regard September 11th as an act of war and only as an isolated criminal act or a felony.

    All point are misguided but when you have a radical and inexperienced person like Obama this is what you get.

    I agree that THIS issue will be his and his Party’s Waterloo.

    It should be noted that New York State Governor Patterson came out and criticized Obama for this move.

    • Murray

      Reason #4:

      As a distraction. The media circus will be in a feeding frenzy around this trial.

      • jwrjr

        Best to watch Congress very carefully during the “trial”.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          Yes, I too, fear this is just part of the bigger shell game from the Flim Flam man.

          Otoh, Oliver Stone is already writing his script for the epic film.

  • carol haka

    Once again, I don’t call waterboarding “torture”.

    And, personally, I don’t care if they dipped them in “hot oil” to save one person – I believe in the pursuit of “false positives”.

    I do say beware when the first attack happens if this diabolical moron dares to bring known “terrorists” onto US soil. I hope he is arrested for “TREASON” the second he trots out his teleprompter to tell us to “not jump to conclusions” and blathers on about “their deaths and destruction”.

    I truly am sickened by the ineptitude of this moron.

    CAROL HAKA :evil:

    • IndianaDem

      Think positively! Maybe we’ll learn just how many lives were actually saved by gently waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times, and see the technique as so useful that it will become a routine part of interrogations.

  • Doc99

    James Taranto:(HT – Glenn Reynolds)

    … No trial judge will want to be known as the Lance Ito of 9/11. More importantly, appeals judges–including Supreme Court justices–will surely hesitate to let KSM off on a technicality.

    But one man’s technicality is another’s violation of due process; and the corollary of treating KSM like ordinary criminals is treating ordinary criminals like KSM. This column approves of aggressive interrogation to gather intelligence from terrorists, but there is little doubt that some of the methods that were used would have been abusive had they been applied by law-enforcement agents to domestic criminal suspects.

    When appellate courts decide questions of law, they set precedents for future cases. If they make allowances for the exigencies of the war on terror in order to uphold convictions of KSM and his associates, it could end up diminishing the rights of ordinary criminal defendants. That’s why the smart civil-libertarian position is to oppose trying terrorists as civilians.

    Perhaps we could, instead, enter Mr. Mohammed in Richard Dawson’s “Running Man” TV Game Show?

  • glennmcgahee

    Hillary Clinton said it just last Sunday. “I do not comment on politics any more”, “as Secretary of State, politics is off my radar”. Secretary of State has responsibility for the big picture, the world view. Thats why she took this job. Obama can fuck up all he wants but at least Hillary will make sure any damage is contained within the country – we don’t want any more wars started due to a misunderstanding or bad feelings. Somebody has to be in position to do damage control whether tommorrow or 4 years from now.

  • PaddyJ

    Can’t SOMEONE bring forward solid evidence that this traitor is constitutionally unqualified to serve in the US Government, never mind as POTUS?
    What the hell, are there no rules?
    Bring this nightmare to an end.
    This is sedition. He and his merry crew of Marxist Muslim-sympathizing PC fools are handing a knife to the enemy.

  • hc123

    Sadly I think nothing will be the undoing of Obama because the electorate is incapable of rational thought. Its not Obama’s “fault” hes president, that one is on the voters. And a people do get the government they deserve.

    I still say an acquittal is what this decision deserves. I am not sure how you spin releasing KSM or failing to follow the will of a jury when you pay such lip service to the rule of law. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

    Let the administration have their cake and eat it.

    Maybe then people will wake up.

  • Peggy Sue

    So, today FF is trying to highjack the thread, steer everything in Hillary Clinton’s direction. FF and Prime Obot must be running a tag team on all things that make The One look and smell bad.

    As for the trial? I do not get the rationale. Before Obama left for Asia, he stated that he did not want a Congressional investigation to proceed on the Ft. Hood massacre. His stated reasoning? He didn’t want the tragedy turned into a circus.

    And yet, with the 9/11 terrorist[s], he’s quite willing to turn this country’s biggest tragedy since Pearl Harbor into a three-ring circus.

    And FF talks about cognitive dissonance?

    I agree this is all about politics. Obama is desperate for a cover to his continued failures: the economy, unemployment, health care etc., etc., etc.

    So, what better diversion than pull out all the dirty laundry on Bush&Co? Of course, he and Holder will be doing that on the backs on New Yorkers and the families of the dead.

    What swell guys!

    The only thing I disagree with is this: I don’t think these terrorists will ever be viewed with a sympathetic eye. Unless, you’re living in the Far Left Universe, where the enemy is always the United States of America.

  • Doc99

    Moving KSM to NYC is a win for the ACLU.

    … September 11, 2001, was the greatest evil ever committed against America on our own soil. It was not a street crime, as the ACLU and the Obama administration are treating it. The consequences of this decision have set a dangerous precedent and handed a victory to our enemies. Just miles, or even blocks, away from where KSM will be tried are the husbands, wives, children, mothers, and fathers who were left behind to mourn because of the act of terrorism directed by the very man who has now been extended all the protections of the American constitutional system.

    Can you imagine if the case of the mastermind of 9/11 was dismissed? If this happens, make sure to thank the ACLU. They were the culprits behind closed doors working to make this a reality. The blood of innocents murdered in the future by those aspiring Islamist killers who will become emboldened by our manifest lack of will and strength will be on their hands.

    A massive public outcry needs to take place — and this dangerous agenda being pushed on the country needs to be reversed.

    At least, KSM won’t have the services of the Blind Sheik’s attorney.

    Finally, Mike Huckabee agrees with Larry.

  • Bruce W

    While I generally agree with this blog, and I think 0bama is an inexperienced boob, I think this is the right thing to do.

    1. We need to show the world the USA has the best legal system, that is 100% fair, and that these guys will not get railroaded in a mock trial. The trial should be open for the world to see. There is no way in hell these guys are not going to get the book thrown at them and go down. If there were any chance of this, they would not be on trial in the first place. Would you trust a Chinese military tribunal to pass judgment on a US Citizen? No, so why would anyone else trust our military to dispense judgment. Our courts are recognized around the world as being some of the fairest. This would be one small step to regaining some of the international trust Bush worked hard at destroying for 8 years.

    2. Second, acts of terrorism against civilian targets are not acts of war. Terrorism, by it’s definition is not an act of war. It is civilian against civilian or military target. Only when it is state military supported acts against anything, does it become an act of war. These guys don’t come from a nation, they can’t be acts of war. By the way, Tim McVeigh was found guilty by a civilian court, so I am not sure how that advances any argument.

    3. I think a fair jury can be found in NY. I live north of NYC, but I feel I would be a good jurist. I was not directly affected by 9/11 in any meaningful way, and not involved in the military.

    0bama may be a total fool, but a broken clock is right twice a day, and this is one of those times.

    • Galt goes to Hollywood

      Don’t forget the Mcveigh trial was moved from OK to Denver.

    • Obama: Dubya 2 Electric Boogaloo

      There is no way in hell these guys are not going to get the book thrown at them and go down.

      How can you be so sure? The idea of having a “fair” trial means that they most surely can have the case thrown out, aquitted or found not guilty. Otherwise it wouldn’t be a fair trial, correct? Any “guarantees” or “it’s a done deal” is BS.

      The one question Obama, Holder, et al don’t want asked or answered is if they’re willing to take personal responsibility if this happens. Oh, I’m sure it will be Bush’s fault somehow, but I think Obamacus has really screwed the pooch on this one.

      • IndianaDem

        How lame will the Obama administration look if the 5 make their statements and then enter guilty pleas, and there’s no trail at all?

        These people don’t want to get off. They want their long-delayed martyrdom at the hands of “The Great Satan”.

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      We have nothing to prove or Opologize for to anyone.

      The world already knows we have the best system…civil, criminal and military. Why do you think the rest of the planet’s population are beating down the doors trying to get in to the US? Do we make mistakes? Sure. But compared to the rest, we’re light years ahead.

      So far as I’m concerned, I hope our soldiers give The Great Opologizer his answer about Mirandizing them on the battle field and giving them civilian trials by imposing the military solution on anyone shooting at them on the spot…take no prisoners. No point in it.

      • Not Likely

        “Why do you think the rest of the planet’s population are beating down the doors trying to get in to the US?”

        They’re not. There are more people leaving the United States than entering, and that includes illegal immigrants. Generally when you talk about something it’s a good idea to have some clue on the subject.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          Take your own advise NL. Not only is the porous border still bringing in hundreds of Mexicans a day but now we’re picking up hundreds of uneducated Chinese. You don’t actually think it’s the housecleaners, day laborers, and gardeners who are interested in being here (or slip away when the jobs disappear) do you? The drug runners will never give up their trade and they come in through the fence, on planes, trains and buses. We don’t even have any numbers for the Asians coming over the northern border. I have two legal immigrants in my family…Pacific Islands and Eastern Europe. They don’t ever want to live in their home countries again. When you come here legally, go through the process, there’s no reason to give that up. Then we can go into the 200M that Obama has budgeted for Palestinian immigration. Welcome Hamas. No, I think you’re still sippin’ the kool aide.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          PS…don’t bother to respond to this as I don’t really like being slimmed by contact with bots.

    • hc123

      This trial IS a mock trial.

    • hokma

      1. A foreign enemy combatent is not entitled to any American rights and when tried it has always been before a military tribunal. This goes back to George Washington and has never been any different since until this pathetic president.

      2. Since when are acts of terrorism never acts of war? Did you just make that up? Al Qaeda had already and unilaterllay delcared war against the United States before September 11th. We just chose to ignore it.

      3. Clearly from you statements you would be a fair juror. You are also an insensitive boob if you live in the NYC Metro area and think that 9/11 was not an act of war and that this ia a good idea.

      One other thing. Place one, and only one, Muslim on that jury and I will guarantee that the jury will not be able to arrive at a guilty verdict.

  • http://www.BullShit.com Osellingbullshit

    I would like to see ALL those Obots loving morons, with their blame America first BS, move and live in a Muslim or Arab control government and see how they like them apples.

  • http://www.blockmastersecurity.com USB Security

    Obama is fearless, full of courage. He have started doing great work. Good Luck OBAMA.

    • Galt goes to Hollywood

      I hope that’s snark! ;)

      • Docelder

        He is just a link spammer. Inserting a link to his business for Google’s sake and lust willy nilly dropping some tangentially related remark so as to hide that fact. These links are no follow but still spammers do it often for so much cents per inserted link. Just ignore him.

        • Onofre’s arm

          I thought Spam came in cans, not in links.

    • Peggy Sue

      USB:

      Where are you living? In a parallel Universe.

      Obama is a boob at best. And you’d only call this “great work” if destroying a great country was on your agenda.

      • Galt goes to Hollywood

        I think its snark, if not, its de facto snark. :D

        • Peggy Sue

          De facto snark. Ha! I like that, Galt.

          These Obama apologists are living in an altered reality, not unlike the Bush&Co. crew of the past.

          The similarity is truly breathtaking! And this is why, I suppose, we always manage to repeat the mistakes of the past: change the packaging and we too readily believe it’s a different product. When in truth, dog food is always dog food.

          • Galt goes to Hollywood

            These Obama apologists are living in an altered reality, not unlike the Bush&Co. crew of the past.

            They fail to see they are residents of the same coin, just opposite sides of it.

            Damn I wish just chronicling this insane reality was enough, but we end up having to also live in it with the bad pennies.

            If USB was serious, they certainly seem to be short a few microprocessors! ;)

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      Oh, he have? Did you ax him? Maybe yoz has ben hinging wit da kittehs to mush. Or listn to 0bam to mush…he of da ta’s and wanna’s and da guyz.

      yoz funneh evn if yoz don mak mush cens.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        this mint for upthred to “UBS Security”

    • http://! stodgie

      usb, i suggest that you consult yur nearest doctor and soon.

  • westexan

    Obama’s court will probabely give the terrorists a carton of cigarettes in exchange for a dollar and wish them well as they head out the courthouse door. After appologizing to them for any inconvenience they may have experienced, of course.

  • Patrick Henry

    Thank you Larry…excellent article that is On POINT for VALID and LOGICAL reasons.

    .These Policys and Procedures by the Obama Administration and like minded Idellogically Connected Department heads like Eric holder.. are as BAD as it can get..Very Poor Decision making..that only Confirms that Barack Obama does not Think about The BEST inerests of the united states…All of His trips to Euorope and recent trip to Asian Countrys and his subservient Gestures and Comments clearly demonstarte Weakness on His Part..

    His background as a Disciple of Jerimiah Wright is coming through..and obama is going out of his way to show that he and his administraTION ARE PUTTING AN eND TO the typical WHITE European Christian arrognace and Imperialism and So called predjustices of the Past..especially those of the “Far Right Republican Neocons like the Bush Cheney people..

    I think Obama is signaling to the Arab Muslim Asian world that He is just “ONE of them..” and that he “Understands” and is Sympathetic to Past Predjustices and Hostilitys towards the United States..and That hwe is going to change all that..

    Thus…He will “Humble” Himself..Grovel..and allow thwe Mulim “Freedom Fighters” a “fair”..Civian Trial in New york..where these Muslim Freedom Fighters can defend their actions against the American Imperialist with its Ties and Predustice in always siding with Israel during middle east Conflicts…which Obama considers Predjustice ..

    Obamas Islamic roots and Jeremiah Wright Indoctrinations are showing in His Policys..

    • http://! stodgie

      true patrick and i think his mother’s dislike for the usa shows too.

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      You are completely correct. He speaks to them via his actions. His message to them is “Pay no attention to the words; they’re just words. But see by my acts who I really am and just who I support. Regardless of what you do here in the USA, don’t be concerned. I’ve got your back.”

      My mother gave me the same advise when I dated: “Believe absolutely nothing you are told and look only to his past and present acts. Then you’ll know who he is.”

      When words and actions match then you can trust that you’re seeing his truth. Never has happened with The Great Bamboozler.

  • Carlaforhillary

    Thanks for the excellent post, Larry. While I don’t agree with moving the trial to NY, I don’t think that it will destroy Obama. The left supports this move and are down on convservatives who disagree with it and the left is already trying to paint KSM as a common criminal and not a terrorist. So many other things before this haven’t destroyed Obama as they should have (Rev Wright, Ayers, Marxism…) and I don’t think this will either.

    On the other hand, Obama will be hard pressed to find independents and conservatives who supported him in 2009 to support him 2012.

    KSM should have been executed by now, and the it is another crime towards the American people that this trial is being used as political fodder.

    • Galt goes to Hollywood

      KSM should have been executed by now, and the it is another crime towards the American people that this trial is being used as political fodder.

      I pointed this out a couple few days ago and *crickets* only from the far-left resident trolls: where’s the outrage about the death penalty? Oh I see, it doesn’t apply to Preszidunce Obysmal — he is “god” so he can have people executed. Bloody hypocrites.

      I’m against the death penalty for Constitutional reasons (“cruel and unusual punishment”), its never acted as a deterrent, in this case you are turning these men into martyrs, life without parole is more fiscally conservative, I don’t trust the government as mistakes can happen that cannot be undone and the death penalty has been applied inequitably to different socioeconomic groups. You don’t see many rich people if any at all on death row.

      Do you remember the outgoing governor who commuted the death sentences of everyone in the state? He was a Republican and a man of great courage to do this, IMO.

      • carol haka

        The Death Penalty is neither “cruel nor unusual”. It has been applied since the beginning of time.

        Once it is determined by DNA evidence and other evidence someone is truly quilty, I say “light ‘em up”! What is “cruel” is that people are still in prisons pending requests to test DNA because of the “costs” involved. My class in 1991 in Microbiology got to test our own DNA. Surely, we can spare the cost to test the prisoners.

        CAROL HAKA :evil:

        • Galt goes to Hollywood

          You can never guarantee 100% certainty no mistakes are made in a prosecution. For example the lab can make a mistake, or evidence could be planted to incriminate. How do you propose we undo an execution if a mistake is made?

          The Death Penalty is neither “cruel nor unusual”.

          I beg to differ.

          It has been applied since the beginning of time.

          I fail to see the logic in this argument. Most nations have moved away from this IMO barbaric vengeful practice for the reasons I’ve stated.

          Well it looks like you’ll get your wish in the trial coming up.

      • ziggy

        As I recall, the governor who commuted all death sentences did so because of grave doubts concerning the even-handedness of the state legal process that was leading people there. I repected that decision.

        Supporting liberal views doesn’t necessarily mean you’re opposed to all use of the death penalty. For example, I was appalled to learn that the convicted murderer of Anne Pressly was recently sentenced to life in prison without parole. This “liberal” could have pushed the button on the guy himself, and not have missed a single night of sleep over it.

        • Onofre’s arm

          Are you gauging your approval of the use of capital punishment based on the murder victim?

          • Galt goes to Hollywood

            Looks like were are on the same page Onofre’s arm. ;)

            I look forward to watching her/him wiggle out of this.

          • ziggy

            Nope. I gauge it on the senselessness and the extreme brutality of the crime.

            I suppose the victim does increase the degree of my outrage, in that she was relatively helpless. I find a strong man beating a woman or a child to death far more reprehensible than one man killing another in a fight, for example. The sad tale of How Vance got that way doesn’t arouse my sympathy enough to overlook the fact of what he did. It isn’t as if he didn’t know better.

            • Onofre’s arm

              At what point then on ziggy’s “sliding outrage scale”, based on the brutality of the murder, and the relative innocence of the victim, do you approve of the death penalty? Your criteria seem to be more of a subjective nature, while your solution–life or death–is about as objective as it gets. And is it possible that someone else’s decision point on the “sliding outrage scale” may be very different than yours? How would you determine who is correct?

              • ziggy

                I suppose that determination is made by the prosecutor, who decides whether or not to seek a death penalty, and then by the jury, who after determining guilt makes a recommendation, and then by the judge, who passes sentence. There’s an appeal process available to the convicted. There are elected officials who can intervene.

                I suppose we could just agree to totally abolish the death penalty in all cases and get ourselves morally off the hook. I’ve sometimes considered that. Then another outrage comes along…

                • Galt goes to Hollywood

                  I see you are still wiggling.

                  Let’s not lose sight of the fact (most on) the left used to be against the death penalty and all of a sudden don’t care anymore since Obama wants to execute human beings now.

                  • ziggy

                    Life is full of moral contradictions. I suppose I am myself.

                    • Galt goes to Hollywood

                      That’s the best you can come up with to defend Obama and the left’s previous stance against capital punishment? I don’t find your moral contradiction excuse credible.

                      I used to be a progressive and never met one who would support state sanctioned homicide for any reason. A progressive for the death penalty would be like a social conservative for reproductive choice. No such animals, at least until now I guess. :P

                    • ziggy

                      That wasn’t an excuse. It was an observation. Contradictions abound.

                      The usual conservative position on abortion, for example, seems at odds with the usual conservative position on capital punishment. So far as state-sanctioned homicide goes–and for an example crossing party lines–what is warfare?

                      We tend rationalize our contradictions, or simply not think too much about them.

                    • Kindred spirit Galt

                      That wasn’t an excuse.

                      It was from where I am sitting. Nice try, but Obama supporter pseudo-progressives are busted on this one. Such dishonesty.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      There are no conflicts within the conservative position of stridently protecting the most innocent of lives, and working for the swift disposal of the most heinously guilty of lives.

                      The real contradiction or hypocrisy here, truly lies with the far left who seem to have no problem with the casual and frequent disposal of the truly innocent, yet they would stridently protect the heinously guilty.

                      You’ll bend over backwards, and exhaust all possibilities to find the innocence of someone on death row, or search for a reason for leniency, yet you’ll not even give a passing thought to the possibility that an unborn child has a soul and a God given right to live.

                      So before you accuse conservatives of hypocrisy,

                      THINK ABOUT IT! Just a little.

                      The monsters on death row and their lawyers will stop at nothing to get their story told, yet you’ll never hear the pleas or appeals of the children executed by abortion, they’ll never get a chance to go to law school.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Consider this, Onofre.

                      The “ministers of death” as you name them are those who are unwilling to admit that partisan politics is killing us all, Democrats, Republicans alike.

                      Take a look [if you dare] at the big picture. This isn’t an argument over right to choice/right to life.

                      It’s an argument over right to survive as a Republic. You want to keep fighting the narrow, partisan views. Hey, go for it. I’m the last one to say individual rights should be squelched. I’m nothing but an ignorant Democrat afterall.

                      But consider this: there’s something to be said about winning the battle and losing the war.

                      The Republic itself is in danger. Or haven’t you noticed? This is not a Democratic or Republican issue. This is an American issue.

                      And we’re either in it together. Or we all lose, equally.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      Well PS, Republican and Democrat are just names to me. All of my beliefs were developed internally based upon my exposure to data and life experiences. NOBODY has forced me into my beliefs, and I’m free from any religious restraints beyond the basic moral principles that are needed for a peaceful society. I was ambiguous about abortion for a long time until I did some very deep and considered internal debates with myself. I can make a very forceful, non religious defense for the lives of the unborn on a purely logical basis, not based upon blind devotion to dogma. It’s a position logically arrived at.

                      I don’t recall, nor can I find where I mentioned “Ministers of death”! WTF are you referring to?

                      Do you believe that a person can’t have personal views on something like abortion, and not understand or be aware of other issues like the destruction of our Republic by Neo-Marxists, at the same time? You must not have read very much of what I’ve written.

                      The Tea Parties were a wonderful gathering of folks from disparate backgrounds and beliefs, yet there was a unifying cause that brought such people together. They seemed to instinctively realize that without the freedoms that the Obama administration is trying to destroy, all of our personal views of the world will be meaningless. And while I may set many of my personal views on layover for the sake of a unified fight against the common enemy Obama, I won’t abandon them. And I don’t see any problem with exercising them and exposing them to criticism here on NQ. Your response, as passionate as it is, completely avoids addressing the principles of my argument, and my observation of the hypocrisy of the left regarding their respective positions on the death penalty and abortion. You went off in a completely different direction.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      You know what, Onofre. Forget I even responded to you. You are a lost, partisan cause.

                      You want to divide the country into the goods and the bads, knock yourself out.

                      Personally, I’m weary of the nonsense, left and right.

                      The only question is does the Republic survive? Anything else is absolute billshit!

                    • Peggy Sue

                      You know what, Onofre. Forget I even responded to you. You are a lost, partisan cause.

                      You want to divide the country into the goods and the bads, knock yourself out.

                      Personally, I’m weary of the nonsense, left and right.

                      The only question is does the Republic survive? Anything else is absolute bullshit!

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Apologize, NQ, for the double post. Mark it down as absolute disgust!

                    • ziggy

                      I didn’t say hypocricy, I said contradiction–and suggested that we all have some. I don’t believe being generally conservative or liberal means that a person’s opinion on any specific issue will predictably go one way or the other.

                      That perception of the world is what they’re trying to sell us on. They don’t really want people analyzing facts, issues, or policies. They want us vs. them and brand loyalty. They want republicans to be seen as this, and democrats to be seen as that, and the only meaningful choice for the rest to come down to which of the two you dislike the least.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Ziggy, though I’ve not agreed with you in the past? You’re sounding amazingly sane.

                      Has the world gone mad? Or are we swimming in unknown and uncharted waters?

                      This is not a trick question. :0)

                    • ziggy

                      I think people are starting to notice some of the same big problems from their positions on different hilltops. The “world gone mad” and “unknown waters” bits probably apply too. I don’t remember ever feeling so uncertain about the country’s near-future. The pro/anti-Obama business is beginning to seem like a symptom of, and a distraction from, something deeper and systemic.

                    • Docelder

                      The only question is does the Republic survive?

                      Yes, because republican vs. democrat is “democracy” in action. Democracy comes down to a head count, which in Washington usually means what’s in it for me? Lost in “democracy” is our constitutional republic. Pelosi epitomizes the inequity of pure “democracy” whereby 215 members can be coerced or bought into voting a certain way against the will of 210 other members… whereby in actuality the will of the people has been wholly trampled as the framework of the bill itself totally violates the nature of a free republic. Few are getting that. Democracy right now is killing our constitutional republic. It is doing so in the guise of partisan politics.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Ziggy said:

                      “The pro/anti-Obama business is beginning to seem like a symptom of, and a distraction from, something deeper and systemic.”

                      Jesus, Ziggy. We’ve landed on the same wavelength.

                      How the hell did that happen?

                      But it’s real good to know that someone, anyone is picking up on the same vibration.

                      “Something deeper, something systemic.”

                      Something we need to address, seriously, immediately, without partisan bias.

                      I’m there, Ziggy. I’m there, truly.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      Funny, I spoke of such unity in the Tea Parties upthread, but I guess, in the jaded eye of Peggy Sue, my position on abortion completely obliterates any other thoughts, positions, beliefs, my humanity, or even crumbs of my mere existance. And she calls ME a partisan.

                      The supreme irony here is that it is YOUR recalcitrance PS, that will defeat any unified attempts at accomplishing our goals.

                    • Peggy Sue

                      Yes, Dolceder. We may disagree on the politics, the partisan issues, the candidates.

                      But we can agree: the Republic is in serious condition, intensive care, machines beeping all around.

                      Thank you for that! Thank you.

                    • Galt goes to Hollywood

                      Comment by Onofre’s arm | 2009-11-18 01:28:05

                      There are no conflicts within the conservative position of stridently protecting the most innocent of lives, and working for the swift disposal of the most heinously guilty of lives.

                      No conflict? Saying so does not make so. And that statement sounds like one of a pompous self-righteous gasbag.

                      What about the “life of mother” and “rape/incest” lack of protection for the “most innocent of lives” by many social conservatives? That’s one giant hypocrisy.

                      Prevention and limiting the number of abortions is the only sensible public policy. Stride on that.

                    • Docelder

                      Peggy Sue, I don’t think I disagree with most of the people here on most of the important issues. I might disagree which ones are most important sometimes I suppose. But here is the odd thing, as these are strange days… I have been a republican my entire adult life. I still have the card as a matter of fact. Not that I plan to use it anytime in the near future. I think what will come from this crisis of the constitutional republic is that moderate minded people will come together at some point. There will be no option soon. I don’t know how messy things will get, but I fear very messy. I have turned away from partisan political ideas altogether for the most part. It is freedom and the constitutional republic itself that is at stake. The constitutional republic is the secret sauce of our success as a nation up til recent times. It isn’t “democracy”. Partisan politics is “democracy” in action. This is killing the constitutional republic. Government won’t help us, we have to help ourselves. We have to break the hold partisan “democracy” has on us before it’s too late. I think this is the model for a successful third party… not a party at all as much as a commitment to freedom and to the republic and to the idea of the republic. A second revolution fought not on a traditional battlefield, but in minds. People need to wake up, and wake up now.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      Galt, 95% of abortions are elective. Within the remainder 5% are the rape/incest, life of the mother, type of abortions. You may claim that by posting the stats I’m a self righteous gasbag, but they’re just numbers. My whole argument here was in response to the ludicrous claim that conservatives are hypocrites because they believe in the death penalty, but are against abortions. I was merely pointing out that the very same claim could be more accurately applied to liberals who hate the death penalty, but love abortions. Is this such a complicated argument? At no point did I spout out that people are going to burn in Hell for getting abortions, OR for executing criminals. I kept emotions out of it, even while I was being insulted and ridiculed for simply bringing up the subject. For all you know, I could be a pro-choice person simply presenting the argument for the pro-life side, as a rhetorical exercise. That would actually be closer to the truth. Personally, I have no problem with abortions, just get them done in the first trimester, or only for compelling medical reasons in later trimesters.

                      My sister-in-law suffered severe carbon monoxide poisoning from a smouldering woodstove while she was in her 6th month of pregnancy. It was almost a 100% certainty that her child suffered extreme brain damage, and while we were all horrified by the tragedy, we were all supportive of the abortion. And I would have bloodied the nose of any pro-lifer who might have tried to exploit that tragedy.

                      That said, when someone so quickly lashes out with non-responsive name calling and other ad hominems, and doesn’t address the salient parts of an argument, the way Peggy Sue has done, it indicates to me that they don’t really have arguments to support their position. This is identical to Al Gore being stubbornly resistant to engaging in debates with experts who could rip his climate change claims into little pieces. (now I snuck in the climate change debate, heh, heh)

                    • Galt goes to Hollywood

                      My whole argument here was in response to the ludicrous claim that conservatives are hypocrites because they believe in the death penalty, but are against abortions.

                      There you go again: labeling something (in this case a “ludicrous claim”) does not make your position true. That’s an opinion and one many people will have disagreement with.

                      Many Social conservatives are self-righteous-gasbags and hypocrites (that’s an opinion) not just because of the main fault with the stance of pro-death penalty and anti-choice, but because of the stance of “life of mother” and “rape/incest” exceptions. Why are these babies executed? These Social conservatives have no problem playing god at all.

                      People (not just liberals) who are against the death penalty and are pro-choice are not hypocrites at all. Its just sound public policy in the real universe, not the black and white of absolutes universe based on some inconsistent notion of what god wants.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      “People (not just liberals) who are against the death penalty and are pro-choice are not hypocrites at all.”
                      “That’s an opinion and one many people will have disagreement with.”

                      “Many Social conservatives are self-righteous-gasbabs…”
                      “There you go again: labeling something (snip) does not make your position true”

                    • Galt goes to Hollywood

                      Yeah like they are opinions on both sides. Note, I did not call the countering opinions “ludicrous claim(s)”

        • Galt goes to Hollywood

          Your two positions are at logical odds with each other.

      • Peggy Sue

        I agree with you, Galt. And Ziggy. I’ve never bought into capital punishment as a deterrent and if it isn’t that, then why? Justified revenge? Righteous retribution? It certainly doesn’t bring “closure” [stupid term] for loved ones.

        Actually, I think for some of the most heinous crimes a quick death is too easy. Life sentences without the possibility of parole would be where I ideally stand.

        However, since the death penalty is practiced, then there are particular crimes that are at the head of the list. These self-proclaimed terrorists. Major Hasan. Pedophile rapists/killers. Cop killers, etc., etc., etc.

        Sorry, the argument that execution has been around forever doesn’t wash in 2009. Cutting off hands and feet has been around for a very long time. Stoning. Garroting. Death by fire. Crucifixion.

        If ancient practices were the standard, we’d still be in ancient times. And btw, the list of countries that we share capital punishment with should be a shuddering wake-up call.

        And that Governor’s decision? Bravo. A decision of conscience. Wouldn’t it be mind-blowing if all our politicians, right and left, were willing to do the same?

        Maybe in my next lifetime!

        • Galt goes to Hollywood

          One other point to throw in the mix: for the US to ask other nations to eliminate human rights abuses, it makes our argument problematic when we practice state sanctioned homicide.

          • Peggy Sue

            It does indeed, Galt.

          • Onofre’s arm

            By that same reasoning then, we have no standing to criticize China’s forced abortion policies, or the countless elective abortions of the possible firstborn, if the child is determined to be female.

            • Peggy Sue

              You need to widen your vision, Onofre. We can argue about the particulars, bash Obama until the sun goes down, arm wrestle about the morality of choice vs. life.

              And meanwhile? The powers that be [both Dems and Repubs] are ripping the floor right beneath our feet.

              But please. Continue the partisan rants. It’s like the band that played as the Titantic went down.

              Knock yourself out!

              • Onofre’s arm

                Was there something logically wrong with my statement? Or has the pure logic of it driven YOU into a rant, a very angry rant. If you are morally and ethically satisfied with your position on abortion, why should you get sooooo upset with something I might write? If you’re right on the subject, why should you care what I think?

                I’m old enough to recognize that when someone is rabidly defensive on an issue, the argument isn’t so much with me, than it is with themselves, and with bad decisions they may have made that they would rather defend, than admit their guilty feelings.

                • Peggy Sue

                  In case you didn’t notice, Onofre, I wasn’t arguing a single issue. I have no guilt, only despair that you and others are so limited in your vision that you cannot see the bigger picture.

                  Everything we are is at risk. Everything! If you cannot see that then there’s nothing I can say.

                  But please, rock on with the partisan fantasies.

                  • Onofre’s arm

                    Simply because I can pay attention to details doesn’t prevent me from also seeing the big picture PS. In fact, an intricate understanding of the pixels that make the big picture, could certainly add to a greater understanding of that big picture, don’t you think? It’s kinda hard to understand calculus if you can’t understand that two plus two equals four.

                    And if anyone here is a fanatic partisan, it’s YOU!

                    • Peggy Sue

                      “And if anyone here is a fanatic partisan, it’s YOU!”

                      Yes, that really washes. Please, dip into the archives at NQ or Liberal Rapture and provide testimony where I’m a rabid, fanatic partisan.

                      You’re an absolute fool.

                      And though I said this before [because I always think there's room for growth], this will be the last post between us.

                    • Onofre’s arm

                      Not one single time did you make even the slightest effort to reasonably dispute my argument, or defend your position. Please re-read your responses and honestly try to tell me that your deflections, name calling, accusations, and subject changes are an acceptable form of debate. I brought up a subject that you are obviously hypersensitive to, and you went straight to the personal attacks. Summed up, your preferred response to anything you’re unable to intelligently respond to is “SHUT UP!”. Pathetic.

                      And you wouldn’t recognize an absolute fool if you bumped into one, as I don’t believe you have the perceptive capabilities approaching even those of an ameba.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Thank you for this post Larry.

    And besides them wrongly being tried in a civilian court, in case many didn’t realize, they were not civilians simply being charged with breaking a civil law.

    But even worse is not being smart with the impact on New Yorkers….all way around.

    Even Bill Clinton moved Tim McVeighs trial from Oklahoma to Denver.

    And sadly, the only persons I’ve seen in favor of this move are actually cheering that in this court, KSM most likely will be let free, arguing torcher. That they see a good move. Scary? You betcha!

    • I’m a Linda too

      did I actually type torcher?(torture) OMG I tried to correct it as I was staring at it.

      Back to no typing and more coffee.

      • I’m a Linda too

        btw, I just saw, “Carter defends his actions on Iran hostages”. Well, doesn’t that make it all better?

        and,

        Want the t-shirt

        “Welcome
        Back
        Carter”

  • Tricia

    Great essay–I agree 100%. What are they thinking? What can come of this that is good for our country?

  • lightacandle

    I can imagine the terrorists looking out the window at the hole where the World Trade Towers USED to be and being happy that they accomplished their mission.

    I think it is obscene that they should have the joy of seeing their handiwork so “well accomplished.”

  • Not Likely

    Rooting for the terrorists again, eh Larry?

    • Peggy Sue

      “Rooting for the terrorists again, eh Larry?”

      What??? Did you even read the damn article?

      Can you even read?

      Or are you, too, from a parallel Universe!

      Jesus! Are there any sane people left on the planet?

      Can I scream now???

  • http://deleted BuzzisbackLatte

    @ Not Likely: Working without tools, again, or just commenting without analytical consideration of what the article was really about?

  • Galt goes to Hollywood

    Rooting for the terrorists again, eh Larry?

    Maybe in your alternate reality, but not in this one.

  • http://www.dsr4.cn r4 dsi

    Obama is doing great job for world to fight against terrorism and making attack on their base camps.From this terrorist captain Khalid Sheikh Mohammed say that they Will Destroy Obama.So we have to make tight security for obama and protect them.

  • Johnny at Work

    excellent point about discovery.

    This is exactly what I have been posting elsewhere. Larry, it’s nice to know that you and I agree on most things even though I disagree with your claim that Obama is a “Surfer Dude”

  • HEPT

    Buncha clowns in office. Miranda means all these EPW’s will walk away free men.

  • AcquitKSM

    KSM and the other terrorists are entitled to the same rights that any U.S. citizen accused of a crime would be entitled to because their trial will be held in a U.S. court. All of them should be acquitted because their constitutional rights were violated-confessions obtained by torture are invalid and none of them were read their Miranda rights. Any evidence obtained by the prosecution has to be thrown out because valid search warrants were never obtained.

    • hokma

      “because their trial will be held in a U.S. court” is the significant term here. and you are right.

      Eric Holder is unqualified to be a the U.S Attorney General and reports to the most unfit President in U.S. history.

      But I don’t believe they are doing this to prosecute KSM. I believe they are doing this to prosecute the Bush Administration and the CIA.

      I also believe they are doing it to show the Islamic world that they do not regard September 11th as an act of war but only as an isolated criminal act.

      I agree with Larry that beyond anything else Obama does, this media circus will cost him any more than the four years he was elected to and will cost Democrats the majority in both houses and for many years to come.

  • IndianaDem

    Remember folks, this isn’t really about how the enemies of America are brought to justice. It’s about how wrong Obama is and always will be, regardless of what he decides to say or do about anything.

    If it had been decided that military trials would be held at GITMO, his ulterior motive would no doubt have been to cover something up. He would be complicit with the Bush administration.

    That would have been a less useful choice, however, since it wouldn’t have allowed the fear card to be played in association with criticism of the President.

    Apparently Americans should now all be terrified of bringing a terrorist to trial in an American court room on American soil.

    Perhaps we should raise the Terrorism Threat color code to register our alarm.

  • LDW

    Obama – “WHEN he’s convicted and WHEN the death penalty is applied to him”

    Asked if he understood why some people were offended by trying the men in U.S. courts, (Obama) replied: “I don’t think it will be offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE5AH3H820091118?sp=true

    Later, Obama backpeddled, saying he didn’t want to prejudge anyone….

    What I want to know is how can a man who is supposedly a Constitutional Scholar and a Lawyer make such a gaffe in the first place?

    The President of the United States, in speaking about someone who supposedly was going to get a fair trial in a US court, said, “WHEN he’s convicted…WHEN the death penalty is applied to him..”

    Obama cannot be let loose without his handlers and his teleprompter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D77Kdp08pwE&feature=player_embedded

    Go to the 1:42 minute mark.

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