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Shall A Little Child Lead Them?

By Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy on November 23, 2009 at 10:15 AM in Current Affairs

On Friday, a gathering of Christian Clergy held a press conference to present the “Manhattan Declaration,” a conservative platform of what they will, and will not accept. It is timely in relation to the upcoming Senate vote on Health Care Reform on Saturday (the vote is to move it out of committee, thus allow for discussion, and not one that would pass the bill).

In that light, here is a brief description of the purpose of the “Manhattan Declaration” (major h/t to Logistics Monster for sending this to me):

Wow, right? You know I am pro-choice – always have been. But I can understand people who are adamantly opposed to abortion do not want to pay for one with their tax dollars in the Health Care reform bill. It is not unlike many of us not wanting to fund ACORN with our tax dollars, though that is more political in nature. Yes, it is legal, and should be, IMHO (as Hillary says, it should be safe, legal, and rare). As I said, I can understand people who do not want their tax dollars funding them.

From a purely sociological perspective, it is interesting to see the ecumenical nature of this group, and the issues that galvanized it. From a theological and personal perspective, I think they are absolutely wrong in their depiction of same-sex marriages. It never ceases to amaze me how the message of Love preached by Jesus can be so distorted by those who call themselves his servants.

It seems that the clergy from the “Manhattan Declaration” should take a little look see at the following video sent to me by my NQ buddy, Linda. It is an interesting juxtaposition between the clergy, another man in the video, and Will Phillips, the fifth grader who refuses to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance until ALL American citizens have liberty. Take a look:

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart Mon – Thurs 11p / 10c
Gaywatch – Peter Vadala & William Phillips
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show
Full Episodes		 Political Humor Health Care Crisis

Oh, yeah, bringing a world of hurt to the ones who hurl insulting monikers – excellent!

Ahem. What I MEANT to say was, isn’t there a line in the Bible, “a little child shall lead them” (Isa. 11:1-10)? Yeah, I’m pretty sure there was. Maybe the clergy members oughta take a look at it…

  • Jobs? Afghanistan?

    Hot button issue focused politics is one reason we are in the fix we are in. Both parties have seized on abortion to coral the lambs to slaughter. They could care less about fetuses/babies or choice.

    Where are the jobs promised by the stimulus?
    Where is the decision on Afghanistan?

  • Ellis

    I understand their desire not to have their tax money spent on reproductive services, including abortion. I have exactly that same desire regarding the use of my tax money to fund wars. And yet I’m expected to compromise on that belief and to accept the use of my money for that purpose because the majority of Americans support defense spending, including the need for war, for the greater good. Now it’s time for them to recognize that a woman’s right to control her body is her decision, up to and including the very difficult decision of abortion.

    If these same folks proactively supported a woman’s right to live in a safe society with access to good health care, including family planning, then abortions would become rarer than all of the deaths from war.

    • NomNomNom

      very well said

    • John Smith

      Anybody who thinks that treating an unborn child as something other then a human being is sick. People who make the argument that they can do what ever they want with their bodies forget that the child is not their body but belongs to the child. I agree it is unfair that man don’t have to worry about this issue but then again fife is not fair and never has been.

  • yttik

    I can’t stand that Manhattan Declaration and the ideals it expresses. However, I can see how the Left has helped to create this kind of environment. Those Christian clergy want autonomy too, they want to be protected from their government. The Left doesn’t seem to understand this, many on the Right oppose gay marriage because they don’t want the government coming into their churches and telling them what they have to believe. We could probably settle this argument by simply attaching an amendment to gay marriage bills declaring that the government shall not mandate whom churches shall and shall not marry. But see to do that, gay rights advocates would have to be willing to accept the fact that discrimination in the private sector may continue and that you cannot win hearts and minds by simply passing legislation. It’s a crappy reality, but churches have the right to discriminate. Not the moral right, but a legal one.

    Abortion is another issue. There are always going to be people opposing it. But a big part of the resistance is about mandated abortion, about being concerned that a government that can grant abortion rights can also mandate them. People are rightfully concerned that the Gov could take the attitude of choosing cost effectiveness over valuing human life.

    I support both gay marriage and choice, I just believe that by not respecting and hearing what the opposition is saying, we don’t advance either cause.

  • bayareavoter

    The argument about how we spend our tax dollars is a ruse. None of us gets to choose how are taxes are spent. Faith-based initiative-I’m against it. Iraq war -ditto. Welfare I mean subsidies for corporations –ditto and on and on.

    Abortion is a medical procedure. If you don’t want one don’t have one. Whatever happened to the separation of church and state?

    There are so many problems with this stupid 2,000 page health care bill that are overlooked by the media. But seniors will be surprised when Medicare Advantage is gone and they need to buy a supplemental plan from AARP (wonder why they support the bill?)

    And I read that all insurance companies will stop funding abortions. If this had happened during Bush’s tenure the Left would be up in arms about this.

    When religious people/clergy take a stand like this it leaves me wondering why they don’t take a stand against poverty, inequality in the judicial system and a million other things.

    Really–just abortion and gay marriage? Give me a frickin break.

    • candymarl

      What you said. Thanks.

    • tek

      bayareavoter: What you said, except you forgot that the clergy also have taken a stand against securing the border and enforcing existing immigration law–lots of money in those illegals for the churches. And that’s all this country is about: MONEY FOR PEOPLE IN POWER.

      • bayareavoter

        tek–this is so true.

        And illegals are becoming more of an issue as the economy tanks and cities start looking for $$ for schools, the fire dept and police.

        That’s what just happened here in Marin county in San Rafael. The city supes spent $75 million on a free clinic serving the illegals and then people (property owners) were po-ed that the city wanted bond money to upgrade the police and fire depts. The bond measure did not pass earlier this month.

    • NomNomNom

      yes, what you said also

  • tek

    I am adamantly opposed to the Iraq War and do not want to pay for it, but Bush bankrupted the whole country over it and I’ve paid through the nose.

    I am adamantly opposed to all these illegal people in the country and do not want to pay for all their benefits, but the corporations and the politicians want them and they don’t want to use their profits to pay benefits, so American citizens have to pay for people who should be deported.

    I am adamantly opposed to paying taxes so people can get billions of dollars from the government just because they are christians and the Republicans and now Obama wants their votes.

    I am adamantly opposed to giving billions in subsidies to oil companies and corporate farms, but Congress adopted this policy a number of years ago so I have to pay huge taxes to fund it.

    I am adamantly opposed to paying single mothers for every child they have out of wedlock, but the government passed legislation and I have to pay for it.

    I am opposed to paying half our income in taxes and never seeing any amenities or other public improvements that augment the quality of our lives. Most of the money goes to people politicians want to get votes from, or take resources from (Iraq). We have no choice but to pay.

    The old argument that you don’t like something that’s legal and you don’t want your tax dollars to support it is really just illogical. I don’t see why the clergy should dictate policy in this country, just because they don’t like something. And more and more we see that these men are a big part of the cause of women and girls needing abortions. If they don’t like abortion, why don’t they support the Morning After Pill? And why don’t they oppose the government paying for Viagra?

    • NomNomNom

      wow, so many great comments, I am not going to even bother. I don’t think I could get a post through without getting caught in the Spaminator anyway.

      • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

        I agree, nomnomnom, so many great comments.

        It is an excellent observation that we all pay for things we might detest.

        Like I said, I can understand that these people are opposed to it, but it is legal, so there’s that.

        You’d think these clergy types would have more important things to worry abt than ay marriage, too, right? Like the economy, domestic violence (I guarantee you, they have people dealing with it in their churches), etc.

        Excellent points, y’all – really!

  • bayareavoter

    Here’s another item about Church and the health care bill. It’s in Salon today–the health care “reform” bill will pay for prayer treatment….

    http://tinyurl.com/yan2x5j

    The Democrats are a pathetic bunch. And tek, you’re right–it’s all about money. Ralph Nader was right–until money is taken out of government we won’t have democracy.

    • lorac

      I’m speechless. They want to use evidence-based guidelines, only to ration our proven healthcare, but they’re going to take our tax money and NOT insist on any efficacy-based evidence for PRAYER TREATMENT????

  • lauraks

    Reverend Amy,

    It is very interesting they chose to put Professor George before the cameras as their spokesperson.My kid goes to Princeton and he is a well known conservative constitutional scholar there.He teaches a freshman seminar class with none other than Cornel West as well.

    To alot of students(including my kid) he is really out there but he has a certain gravitas these clergy are after.

    • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      THANK YOU for explaining his position in that group. When I saw from where he was, I responded, “Huh?” (See Scooby Doo looking at something he doesn’t understand.) I appreciate that.

      Very interesting that he teaches a class with Cornel (who was one of my seminary professors at Union). I bet THAT’S some class…

  • Jobs? Afghanistan?

    With all the closet gay clergy, what’s their beef? Self loathing? Fund raising and PR via a hot button issue? Both, I think.

    I support “choice” plus limiting unwanted pregnancies via age appropriate sex education, same sex marriage and the separation of church and state. But I also realize these are wedge issues that fatten the coffers of religious institutions, organizations, politicians and media gasbags like Hannity and Olbermann.

    I’m really very tired of self-serving hypocrites destroying the fabric of society.

    Where are the jobs promised by the stimulus?
    Where is the decision on Afghanistan?

  • BINKY

    ” the clergy also have taken a stand against securing the border and enforcing existing immigration law–”

    That’s a pretty broad inclusive generalization you make here — I think you should be more specific as to which clergy.

    • BINKY

      Sorry — wrong place. Meant comment to be under
      Comment by tek | 2009-11-23 11:39:37

  • Khan Krum

    Finally a response to their “American Prayer”:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVi4rUzf-0Q

  • http://liberalrapture.com/ John (from Liberal Rapture)

    50% of the population cannot be thrown overboard. There can be no compromise here. Reproductive health is HEALTH.

    As a man, i promise you, if we had babies there would be no Stupak amendment.

  • VinceP

    Looking at the world’s future demographics, I think it’s crucial that everything be done to encourage the traditional family.

    That means having marriage be about the raising of childern, not validating one’s relationships.

    That means not encouraging (and not demonizing) same-sex relationships in the youth.

    And i say that as a gay guy, if everyone was gay there would be no future.

    I think there has to be standards and that the standard be upheld.. even if it’s an almost impossible ideal.

    I support what those religious people are doing… for not only is it immoral to compel people to participate in the slaughter of innocent unborn life via paying for it. but many hospitals are run by religious organizations and the danger is that the govt would compel them to perform abortions.

  • http://www.r4-ds.com.ar r4i

    Thats good job because even elders are becoming so stubborn to decide on any thing where a small child can do that easily without any rising any big issues. That was good this was decided.

  • r4i

    Well thats a great job you have done, sometimes even elder people becomes so stubborn to decide on anything where a small child can just do it without rising any big issues. They need to teached lessons from small children i suppose.

    <a href=”http://www.r4-ds.com.ar”>r4i</a>