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DOJ Gives ACORN An Early Holiday Present

* bumped up because the Reverend is our in-house expert who tracks the ACORN story like few others *

And circumvents the Congress, even the President, in the process. Yes, it turns out that, according to DOJ lawyer, David Barron, it is A-Okay for ACORN to receive funds from American taxpayers, according to this NY Times article.

Yes, it is a little more complicated than that, but not a lot. I believe the term is “grandfathering” the contracts in:

The Justice Department has concluded that the Obama administration can lawfully pay the community group Acorn for services provided under contracts signed before Congress banned the government from providing money to the group.

The department’s conclusion, laid out in a recently disclosed five-page memorandum from David Barron, the acting assistant attorney general for the Office of Legal Counsel, adds a new wrinkle to a sharp political debate over the antipoverty group’s activities and recent efforts to distance the government from it.

Since 1994, Acorn, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, has received about $53 million in federal aid, much of it grants from the Department of Housing and Urban Development for providing various services related to affordable housing.

But the group has become a prime target for conservative critics, and on Oct. 1, President Obama signed into law a spending bill that included a provision that said no taxpayer money — including money authorized by previous legislation — could be “provided to” the group or its affiliates.


Here’s a little newsflash – it isn’t just Conservatives who are angry that this organization, which has engaged in MASSIVE voter registration, as well as voter, fraud, is receiving our tax dollars. Then there’s the pesky little issue of the videos taken in their offices mentioned below. But I digress…

This will warm the cockles of your heart, just who it was who asked that funding be restored. Yes, another government agency:

A Housing and Urban Development Department lawyer asked the Justice Department whether the new law meant that pre-existing contracts with Acorn should be broken. And in a memorandum signed Oct. 23 and posted online this week, Mr. Barron said the government should continue to make payments to Acorn as required by such contracts.

The new law “should not be read as directing or authorizing HUD to breach a pre-existing binding contractual obligation to make payments to Acorn or its affiliates, subsidiaries or allied organizations where doing so would give rise to contractual liability,” Mr. Barron wrote.

The deputy director of national operations for Acorn, Brian Kettenring, praised Mr. Barron’s decision.

“We are pleased that commitments will be honored relative to Acorn’s work to help keep America’s working families facing foreclosure in their homes,” Mr. Kettenring said.

Mr. Barron said he had based his conclusion on the statute’s phrase “provided to.” This phrase, he said, has no clearly defined meaning in the realm of government spending — unlike words like “obligate” and “expend.”

Citing dictionary and thesaurus entries, he said “provided to” could be interpreted as meaning only instances in which an official was making “discretionary choices” about whether to give the group money, rather than instances in which the transfer of money to Acorn was required to satisfy contractual obligations.

Since there are two possible ways to construe the term “provided to,” Mr. Barron wrote, it makes sense to pick the interpretation that allows the government to avoid breaching contracts.

Moreover, he argued, requiring the government to cancel contracts with a specifically named entity — “including even in cases where performance has already been completed but payment has not been rendered” — would raise constitutional concerns best avoided by interpreting the law differently.

In other words, it all depends on how you define the term. Wow, that’s some major lawyering going on right there, isn’t it? “It depends on what the definition of ‘is’ is…” Great.

You may recall that ACORN has filed a lawsuit, too, claiming it should not be cut off from our funds, despite it clearly being a partisan organization:

The Constitution prohibits “bills of attainder” — legislation intended to punish specific people or groups. Acorn has filed a lawsuit arguing that the statute banning the government from providing it money amounts to a bill of attainder.

Founded in Arkansas in 1970, Acorn describes itself as the nation’s largest grass-roots community organizing group. It provides financial services to poor and middle-income families, conducts voter registration drives, and advocates for higher minimum wages and more affordable housing.

Conservatives have long complained about Acorn’s voter drives in poor neighborhoods, citing instances in which workers fraudulently registered imaginary voters like Mickey Mouse. Acorn has argued that it is the real victim of such incidents, which its employees have often brought to the attention of the authorities.

Criticism of Acorn escalated in September, when two conservative activists released videos they had recorded using secret cameras of Acorn workers in several cities. The activists had posed as a pimp and a prostitute seeking financial advice. Instead of raising objections, the Acorn employees counseled the couple on how to hide their illicit activities and avoid paying taxes.

Conservatives seized on the videos to criticize the group further, highlighting that the Obama campaign had paid an Acorn affiliate for get-out-the-vote efforts. Congress then enacted the ban on providing money to it.

Acorn has fired several of the employees depicted in the videos.

Again, I am no attorney, and certainly welcome comments from those who are (jbjd!), but I’m thinking that when the Constitution is heralded as a foundation for not discriminating against certain “groups of people,” it doesn’t mean partisan political organizations like ACORN, but more like Native Americans, or disabled Americans, et al. But I could be wrong.

I hope I’m not, though – can you imagine the Constitution protecting a political group that constantly works to circumvent our very laws, like, say, child prostitution? Or, voter fraud? Or embezzlement? Yeah, me, neither.

It makes me wonder about our Department of Justice, though. So far, we have it supporting DOMA, in which it likens GLBT people to pedophiles and incest perpetrators; allowing someone who committed an act of war in which thousands were killed to have a civilian trial with all the inherent rights of an American citizen, as is the case with Khalid Sheik Mohammed, and now does an end-run around the Legislative and Executive Branches to continue funding a disreputable company. They sure have their priorities straight, don’t they? Uh huh.

I guess this is more “change we can believe in”? And just in time for the holidays, too…

  • objective analysis

    Obama’s Administration (Obama and his DOJ) don’t care anything about the rule of law or the Constitution.

    His ultimate goal is to keep acorn afloat to try and win elections for Dems in 2010 and get reelected in 2012.

    the filmmakers, breitbart, etc… are putting an end to their plan. heck hoffman almost won in NY23.

    • HARP

      Another “man made disaster”.

    • hokma

      Mark my words. When the Democrats lose control if Congress you will see immediate investigations into Obama for possible articles of impeachment. As far as Holder, I cannot think of an A.G. since John Mitchell who abuse that office for political gain as holder has in less than a year. He will also be investigated, forced to resign. One could only hope that he is also eventually disbarred.

    • elizabethrc

      Is it possible for Congress to recall the AG? It seems to me that Congress passed a law to cover monies already promised to acorn, so how can he arbitrarily countermand that law?
      Glenn Beck or Breitbart needs to start a big time investigation of the AG and get a movement going to shame Obama into throwing him under that famous, crowded bus.

    • tek

      oj: You got that right. He can’t get in office without ACORN.

  • Obamastolemycoutry

    Not that I don’t love Bigdawg, but this argument is somewhat embarrassing and reminded me of the it depends how you define sexual relations. These people have no shame. We must oust them! I am still shocked and appalled that we were able to impeach Bigdawg for “a lie” and we do not seem to think there is anything that equals “a lie” or “shady deals” or anything like that with Pretendident Odrama. Oh, that’s right. That is because it is always someone else’s fault.

  • HEP-T

    Obama (PBUH) does not plan on being a former President he’s in the job for life Bubba’s.
    ACORN is his ticket.

    • http://www.rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com/ Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      That’s a scary thought. The way he is constantly revising history, though, I would not put it past him for one skinny second…

      I hear you, ObamaStole – I admit, that was abt whom I was thinking and the parsing of terms/words rather than what is right or wrong…

      The DOJ does not seem compelled to defend the Constitution much, which is just a tad disconcerting…

      • Silence Dogood

        That’s a scary thought.

        What we are experiencing is indeed a horror show, that’s for certain!

    • creeper

      At one time I thought the Republicans would refuse to leave office last year, declaring some sort of national emergency to justify their actions. I think the only reason it didn’t happen was that Shrub wouldn’t play along because he was sick to death of being president and couldn’t wait to get out.

      Obama luuurves being president. He’d do anything to stay in the White House (well, keep his clothes there anyway) forever. We’d better keep an eye on legislation introduced in the next three years. Repeal of presidential term limits may well show up.

      However…at the rate O’s approval numbers are hitting the skids I think even his own party would balk at that one.

      • Silence Dogood

        I have to admit, I have to fight off becoming paranoid we are becoming something akin to a personal 1000 year Fourth Reich for the NiC (Narcissist in Chief). But with all this monkey business going on, its tough!

        • creeper

          And even if they don’t pass a repeal of term limits there’s nothing stopping them from going the “national emergency” route.

          Clinton and Bush both issued Executive orders on the subject of national emergencies and the powers they claimed. Clinton’s was #12919. Bush’s order was #52. These are legal under the War and Emergency Powers Act of 1933.

          Has it escaped everyone’s notice that Obama has already declared one national emergency…H1N1. Somehow, that seems to have slipped off the radar. Expect more to follow. We need to be trained to accept these without question.

          • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

            I admit, I have had the same fears, first abt the Reps, but definitely abt Obama. Yes, he really does seem to enjoy the trappings of the presidency, far more than the actual WORK of the presidency. I can see him doing it…

            • Silence Dogood

              Tosses Rev. Amy a spare tinfoil hat. I have plenty to spare. :D

  • jwrjr

    Obama and his ObamacRats (sounds like a bad music group) think that the DOJ’s opinion saves them from having to explain why they restored the funding to ACORN. Even if so (which I doubt) they still need to explain how Acorn ever got federal dollars (our money) in the first place.

    • lorac

      I think we all agree the guy is a narcissist and needs his cheering crowds. For me, though, it goes further than that – if the adulation dies (which has already started), I don’t think he’ll want to stick around. He’s already guaranteed to be rich when he leaves – so he wouldn’t need to stick around to have perks.

      He has never truly risked losing – most recently he had all the media and the DNC working/cheating for him, and before that his operatives did things like leaking sealed divorce records for his benefit.

      If public opinion is mostly against him, I don’t think he’ll even run for a second term.

  • Docelder

    Honestly, does anybody still believe in our “justice” system? We have a “system” I believe that… but justice is just a word that makes us feel better about it. Friends of Barry… how different is that than friends of George, or friends of Bill? Not one bit, except that Barry’s friends are even more slimy.

    • tek

      Docelder: I don’t believe in the “American System” anymore. However, I will say, I still admire Bill Clinton in spite of everything because he really is the only president in my lifetime who reined in the corporations. Since Bush, the corporations run this country; now Obama is continuing in that pattern.

      I still believe the Clintons love America and wanted to create a true democracy that would offer opportunities to everyone, not just specific swing groups who voted them into office. Now we have a facist state.

  • HARP

    This is what Omerica has become.

    • Docelder

      Omerica the scrofulous.

      • HARP

        LOL

        scrofulous? ……..You have been watching way too much of Bill O’Reilly.

      • PainkillerJayne

        morally tainted is about right

  • helenk

    Wouldn’t it be nice to have a tax day and NOBODY paid? Since our taxes go for unlawful enterprises now and junkets for the travelin couple instead of the good of the country why pay?
    I know this will not happen but could you imagine millions of people just saying “no”.
    It is no longer government for the people by the people. Now it is the Chicago way. Al Capone would be so proud.

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Diana L. C.

    I’m sick now–I have to go to vomit.

    It seems that a good way to save money now for our government would be just to get rid of the DOJ since it doesn’t really work anyway.

  • ahs

    The primary thing going on here, in my opinion (and caveat: I’m still a law student, and not yet a lawyer) is the DoJ being careful to avoid the constitutional difficulties posed by the bill that defunded ACORN.

    Short version: ACORN has claimed that the bill was unconstitutional as a “bill of attainder.” A bill of attainder is, basically, an act of the legislature that punishes a person (whether a natural person or a corporate person) for a crime of which they have not been convicted through the judicial process. ACORN (the corporate organization) has never been convicted of fraud.* Thus while Congress can probably say “no more funds in the future,” it probably can’t say “your current contracts are rescinded” as a consequence of fraud that hasn’t (yet) been proved.

    *Someone will surely protest that ACORN has indeed been convicted of fraud. No, it hasn’t. Some individual employees have, but the corporate entity never has. If you want to make that argument, please cite proof — you’ll have trouble finding it though, since it doesn’t exist.

    Anyway, what Barron did here is actually pretty smart if you want to see the Defund ACORN bill upheld in the courts. ACORN will have much more difficulty making out a constitutional injury if all they’re losing is hypothetical future funds rather than current funds that the gov’t is obligated by contract to pay. And despite how sleazy ACORN appears to be, their lawsuit is far from frivolous: http://volokh.com/posts/1253048051.shtml

  • ahs

    Lost one in the spam filter, already. Impossible to post here. Thought this site was addressing the problem?

    • Nellie

      AHS,

      The airlines “broke’ their contracts with retired pilots. The Auto MFG’s broke their contracts with retired workers.

      If you inadvertantly hire a company that is a “front” for the Mafia, eg. a road contracting company, and later learn they are burying bodies under a road, how difficult would it be to break the contract?

      SEIU, closely tied to ACORN is a thug outfit. Say we learn that their cleaning union workers are all Islamists being used to clean Congressional and White House offices. How difficult would it be to break that contract on grounds of National Security?

      Bill of attainder is ONE part of an issue. Aren’t there also laws on the books that allow for termination of contracts for cause?

      Your point is taken that ACORN National hasn’t been convicted yet! However they are clearly a partisan organization, and there ARE laws that prohibit using government funds for Partisan organizations.

      No where in the constitution is there a requirement to fund these groups. Taxpayer money belongs wot WE THE PEOPLE and is not Congresses or the White Houses personal slush funds.

      My point is how really difficult would it be to hold ACORN’s feet to the fire, and freezing all funds, until all arguments and appeals are completed?

      Further Holder, and this David Barron both need to be removed from office and have hearings regarding the nullification of their licenses.

      • ahs

        The bill of attainder issue is, for the purposes of ACORN’s attempt to have the law defunding it overturned in court, the only issue. It’s an issue on which ACORN has a significantly better shot of winning if they can show a present deprivation* worked by the bill — for example, if they can show that they’re going unpaid for work already performed, and performed in full compliance with the laws (which they likely would be able to, for some contracts even if not for all). To reduce the very real chance of the whole law being thrown out, Barron is saying it’s better to just pay for work already done and avoid the constitutional problem. That’s smart lawyering (and done to make sure the whole bill survives the coming legal challenge), and that doesn’t get you disbarred — it gets you promoted.

        *To use your road example, once the road is actually built, you have to pay for it unless you can show that it wasn’t built right. If ACORN had a contract to do X, and they did X correctly, then the fact that they’re doing illegal things AB&C, unrelated to X, doesn’t change the fact that they are owed money for X. It would be different if they haven’t performed yet, but we’re talking about contracts already performed, for which the gov’t hasn’t paid up. To make an even clearer example: if a man kills his neighbor on Sunday, and goes to work all week, and is caught on Saturday (and subsequently fired), his employer still has to pay him for that week of work.

  • Silence Dogood

    Arguably the “Justice Department” is now an oxymoron.

    …would raise constitutional concerns best avoided by interpreting the law differently.

    Best avoid this. And interpret that! :P

    I think this lawyer is using Ron Popeil’s slice and dice contraption.

    And since when has a government lawyer not done something anyway when they’ve wanted to, even with the risk of an appeal?

    Is it fair to say he was ordered to make a jackass out of himself?

    “That’s no the Justice Department I once knew.”

    IANAL, but I do wonder here.

    • Silence Dogood

      Fox / hen house axiom applies.

      Our DOJ is headed by an appointee of arguably one of the worst criminal politicians in American history.

      2010 and 2012 can’t come soon enough.

    • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      Well said, SD – that’s exactly it, the fox guarding the hen house…

  • wbboei

    This justice department elevates politics over the rule of law. Most laws are to a degree ambiguous, and even when they are not ambiguities arise in their application and/or implementation. The key ingredient in the interpretation process is practical wisdom. Time and again Holder and the people who work for him lack practical wisdom. And, as stated above, they always seem to bend to law to political necessity real or perceived. In the process, they violate their oath. Gonzales was bad. Holder is worse. And his influence permeates the organization. This is not a good thing.

    • Silence Dogood

      Seems to me the Attorney General should not be appointed by the president. Perhaps the job should no longer be a cabinet post with all the abuses we’ve suffered through.

      And forget about “advise and consent” with one party control.

      Fox / hen house axiom applies (again).

      My 2 cents. :D

      • Nellie

        I agree.

        All top “Management” at DOJ should be appointed by Am. Legal Assoc and Am. Bar Assoc. Then said “management” of DOJ appoint the various US Attorney’s.

        Certainly would keep the focus on EQUAL protect under laws and no more of this political B/S.

  • DS

    Interesting that it’s OK to tell those who took TARP funds, long after the funding was accepted, how they can and can’t spend the money, and heavily tax recipients of that money as punishment.

    And it’s OK to tell auto executives which of their executives can and can’t retain their jobs, after their funding was accepted.

    And, it’s OK to tell credit card companies that they have to implement legislation before the date in which that legislation becomes effective or tell them they can’t make any changes based on risk exposure before that legislation becomes effective, after passing legislation with specific effective dates in it.

    But it’s somehow inappropriate to refuse to provide funding to ACORN when Congress — for once — addressed just that in the legislation rather than having a government department, or new czar, arbitrarily make a decision afterward based on public opinion?

    Selective interpretation of laws and regulations. Hmm, reminds me of the Bush years…

    [...] requiring the government to cancel contracts with a specifically named entity — “including even in cases where performance has already been completed but payment has not been rendered” — would raise constitutional concerns best avoided by interpreting the law differently.

    [...]

    The Constitution prohibits “bills of attainder” — legislation intended to punish specific people or groups. Acorn has filed a lawsuit arguing that the statute banning the government from providing it money amounts to a bill of attainder.

  • wbboei

    Also, if memory serves, Holder is the one who pressed for the pardon of Frank Rich–after all the damage he Soros and others did in Eastern Europe, Also, he represented United Fruit as I recall in matters the execution of a pro union movement in a south or central american republic. These episodes cast further doubts on his judgment–at least in my mind.

  • wbboei

    Correction: Mark Rich. Frank Rich (NYT) is unpardonable even by Satan standards.

  • Peggy Sue

    HelenK mentioned this upthread, but I’m waiting for the call for a national tax revolt. This would be the Mother of civil disobedience acts if a large part of the populace refused [either through necessity or design] to give the Federal government a unified rasberry on April 15th.

    Amy’s article on the DOJ’s response to ACORN funding is just one more chink to the crumbling wall of confidence in business as usual. Whether it be this or the nosediving economy, the healthcare deform bill, the war in Afghanistan, the Fed’s currency games, the tax and cap sham, etc, etc, etc., people are fedup.

    Should be an interesting Spring!

    • Peggy Sue

      Should read:

      refused [either through necessity or design] and gave the Federal government a unified rasberry on April 15th.

  • Silence Dogood

    A boycott is only effective if well organized.

    • helenk

      We have December,January,February and March to organize.

      We can continue to the them the money and keep getting screwed without being kissed or we can refuse.
      If they jail most of the country, the rest will have jobs building the jails and those arrested will have health care.

      WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE, MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

      PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

  • Betty

    So let ACORN take us to court – We can just do a Sarah Palen:

    For 30 years, Exxon held a lease to do exploratory drilling at a place called Point Thompson. They made excuses the entire time why they couldn’t’t start drilling. In truth they were holding it like an investment. No governor for 30 years could make them get started. This summer, she told them she was revoking their lease and kicking them out. They protested and threatened court action. She shrugged and reminded them that she knew the way to the court house.
    Part of a comment posted by Dewie Whetsell, Alaskan Fisherman

  • TeakWoodKite

    An expert in administrative law and the separation of powers, Barron recently co-wrote an important law review article evaluating executive authority in war. He also testified before Congress on war powers.
    After obtaining his J.D., Barron clerked for Judge Stephen Reinhardt of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit and then Justice John Paul Stevens of the U.S. Supreme Court.

    • jbjd

      TWK, this reminds me of WH Counsel Bob Bauer, the expert in federal election law – he wrote the textbook – who asked the federal court to take judicial notice of what turned out to be a phantom image of a newspaper birth announcement posted by APFC on their web site, unattributed, visible only on the computer screen, to establish BO was Constitutionally eligible to be POTUS.

      • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

        EXACTLY, jbjd – spot on.

  • helenk

    1776
    Wasn’t that the year some people went to war over taxation without representation?
    Didn’t they win?

    WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

    PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

    • NomNomNom

      not exactly: after Washington was elected, he raised taxes beyond what the British had proposed.
      on July 4, 1789, (at his & Adams’ request) the Congress enacted the first tariff bill, which imposed higher taxes on imported goods.
      among other things, Washington instituted the infamous federal whiskey (and carriage) tax, our nation’s first “sin tax”. Small time operators had to pay a tax by the gallon, large distillers, like Washington himself, got a flat fee: this tax and its inequity led to the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794, one of the earliest instances where troops were set on civilians on American soil. We would not set limits on the military being used against civilians until the Insurrection Act of 1807 and later Posse Comitatus in 1878 (not that they abided by it).

      I might add, Washington was apparently something of a conniving @sshat: he forwent a salary to head the army during the Revolution, but demanded his expenses be paid: he cost the government over $160,000. This is why when he was elected President his salary was set at $25,000, despite Ben Franklin’s protestations that the no salary-expenses paid would ensure a lack of waste for our dear leaders.

  • TeakWoodKite

    should be understood to prohibit a federal agency from making payments to satisfy pre-existing contractual obligations.

    If ACORN is funded by grants, what contractual obligations for services rendered are outstanding due to ACORN?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but Federal Grants are normally written to include what response the Grantor will take when the Grantee is out of compliance or in violation of the conditions of the grant.
    Do grants fall under contract law?

    • Docelder

      This is what I was afraid of when everybody was talking up Obama going to Harvard Law. You ask yourself “why”? But think about it. The prisons are full of lifers who also study the law. They don’t do it because they love the law or the legal system… they do it because they hate the system and want to distort and manipulate the system. They study the law with an unethical intent. I think it is becoming apparent out President is one of those who also studied the law with an unethical intent. The captain of our vessel has no moral compass. Hang on with both hands.

    • jbjd

      R3A, I could write a treatise on this article; and no one refers to me as an expert on administrative law! Let me list the points, in no particular order.

      1. Mr. Barron never said, if we stopped paying ACORN under the terms of existing contracts, this would put us in breach.

      The new law “should not be read as directing or authorizing HUD to breach a pre-existing binding contractual obligation to make payments to Acorn or its affiliates, subsidiaries or allied organizations where doing so would give rise to contractual liability,” Mr. Barron wrote.

      See, he is only saying, if a law that could be interpreted 1 of 2 ways, puts a party to a contract in breach when read 1 way but not the other then, use the interpretation that that does not put the party in breach. BUT HE IS NOT SAYING THAT STOPPING PAYMENTS TO ACORN WOULD PUT HUD IN BREACH! Slippery, but true.

      First of all, unless a specific provision in the contract defines breach could mean, ceasing payments AND defines the cessation of payments as automatic breach then, ceasing payments on its own cannot be said to constitute breach. So, Mr. Barron has not advised HUD that to cease payments to ACORN WOULD BE A BREACH OF CONTRACT but rather that it COULD BE BREACH OF CONTRACT.

      2. Saying that, if we stopped paying ACORN under existing contracts based on conduct that COULD BE adjudicated at some future time to be illegal COULD BE PROHIBITED CONDUCT AS CONSTITUTING A BILL OF ATTAINDER exposes Mr. Barron’s disingenuousness. He knows members of ACORN have been found guilty of criminal conduct other than these recent revelations in the pimp/prostitute tapes. But what is really important about his references to BoA is this. He is conceding there could be provisions in the contract that would permit non-performance, for example, a type of ‘morals’ clause. That is, he is not saying, ‘Under no circumstances may we get out of this contract,’ but rather, ‘Saying we want out based on what we would characterize as unlawful activity could be in violation of the prohibition against B’soA where such unlawful activity is only alleged and not proven in a court of law.’

      3. No contract was ever valid where such contract was prohibited by the provisions of law. For example, if federal law prohibits giving public money to partisan political groups and, (it is a matter of public record that) ACORN engages in partisan politics (think their endorsement of the candidacy of BO) then, the contract between HUD and ACORN is void as a matter of public policy.

      Mr. Barron could find a million ways to defend against a breach of contract suit brought by ACORN when we stop providing them with our money. But his interest lies in maintaining payments to ACORN, rather than in enforcing the will of the people not to provide any more money to this partisan criminal enterprise.

      I would love to see the contracts.

      • jwrjr

        Interesting point. Of the money that ACORN gets from the govt., how much of it is in the form of a contractual obligation and how much of it is in the form of grants (i.e. gifts). Isn’t it a matter of basic contract law that without an exchange of value (goods, services, money) there is no contract?

        • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

          Aha!! I knew I could count on you, jbjd!! It is interesting, isn’t it, on whose side Mr. Barron seems to think his bread is buttered? See, me, I would have thought a DOJ lawyer served the Constitution and the country, not an organization, but he doesn’t seem to think so.

          Thank you for laying that out so concisely – I appreciate it!

          And ROTFLMAO abt the libraries not being open, hence no opposition today. Or maybe their last checks bounced or something…

          • jbjd

            R3A, you can always count on me to reduce the convoluted edicts of the ‘experts’ into easily understood lay terms. I hate bullies, whom I define in this context, in this way. They know they are listened to because of their superior credentials and positions, by lay people they have somehow convinced are not nearly as smart. They take advantage of this myth of intellectual superiority by promoting their own interests, disguised as the natural result of the application of their superior intellectual skills and abilities. Thus, even if you take the time to dissect what they are saying and find flaws, you will attribute such findings to your inferior mind and experience. And their colleagues, engaged in similarly disingenuous pursuits, seldom blow the whistle. (At some point, I will publish a book about the people, among them, several lawyers, who took extreme advantage of their ‘superior credentials’ to inflict an unconscionable trauma on my family, safe in the mistaken belief, I was only 1 (one) year out of law school and surely would not be able to de-construct what they had done; and why. But they were wrong. In the midst of this, a lawyer sarcastically said to my then 10-year-old son, ‘Oh, so your mother is right, and everyone else is wrong.’ Without missing a best, he answered, ‘Yep.’)

            • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

              Yes, I certainly can, jbjd, and I thank you for it!

              Your son is brilliant! :-)

              And you are quite right – they are bullies, no doubt abt it. They assume they can throw their weight around, thus disguising what is really going on behind the bluster.

              Thanks again!

  • Silence Dogood

    What happened to the NQ opposition? Did the Cheetos factory blow up?

    • Docelder

      Maybe the libraries are closed for the holidays. ;)

      • jwrjr

        And parents’ basements are used for Christmas gift storage. Getting Cheeto dust on Christmas gifts would be bad manners … not that this ever stopped trolls.

    • ahs

      the spam filter is eating us. not for the first time i have to wonder if it’s a wee bit one-sided in who is does and does not let through — i’ve found it all but impossible to get anything through in the past few months.

      • Silence Dogood

        Perhaps in your style of writing, to no fault of your own, you use certain words or phrases the filter does not like?

        For example the filter does not like the word “i.d.i.o.t” (remove the dots) for some reason.

        In any case, I see no censorship going on: they put up with me here! ;)

  • jbjd

    R3A, I inadvertently put my response to you, under TeakWoodKite’s comment.

  • DCMediagirl

    Does anyone still obsessed with this ACORN story care one whit about the massive amounts of taxpayer money that Halliburton, KBR and others have ripped off from the American taxpayer? And the fact that their thievery and substandard services have put our troops at harm while picking our pockets? Anyone?

    • Docelder

      Did congress vote to defund Halliburton? If they did I missed it. This administration answers to nobody. Why would it? Who would make it? Who… the press, congress, anybody? No. Nothing short of the military can contain a rogue administration that functions more like a coup d’etat.

    • http://rabblerouserruminations.blogspot.com Rabble Rouser Reverend Amy

      Why yes, I (we) do still care abt that. But that is not the issue at hand here, ACORN is. It was just in the news again, along with the DOJ doing ACORN’S bidding.

      ACORN has gotten a lot of our money, and stand to get more, despite being a politically partisan organization doing the bidding of this administration. I’m pretty sure that’s illegal, btw. That’s the big deal, you see.

      • Silence Dogood

        The question was framed with a forgone conclusion, that you and others here are “obsessed.” This taints any answer you give. In context, the word is negative. This is a false premise argument.

        Moral relativism never cut the mustard with me. The present injustice + the past injustice = all injustice. I think we are obsessed here, for sure, but not in a negative way implied by the question: we are “obsessed” or more correctly “seek with all our fiber and hearts”: JUSTICE.

        And that’s a thing of beauty!

        Keep on obsessing, Rev. Amy! We love ya!

    • lorac

      Does anyone still obsessed with this ACORN story care one whit about the massive amounts of taxpayer money that Halliburton, KBR and others have ripped off from the American taxpayer?

      Both situations are bad, but I would posit that someone stealing votes is more destructive to our democracy than someone stealing money.

      • Silence Dogood

        Is there a “bringing up the past as a diversion from the present” axiom? ;)

        How about this?

        Reminiscing past injustice to counter present injustice is still all injustice…

        I read it on a box of Fruitloops. :D

  • DCMediagirl

    Nothing short of the military can contain a rogue administration that functions more like a coup d’etat.

    I’ve read comments like this before. Usually by apologists for military dictatorships in banana republics.

    As to the rest of your comment, I guess that you approve of military contractors massively ripping you off and potentially harming the troops. Oh, and pleading guilty in a court of law for doing so. I personally don’t and find that situation very serious.

    • TeakWoodKite

      DcMediagirl, I would not contradict a thing you have said. I would say there is an aweful lot of double standards, which I am no longer shocked by. It is not the question of if Speedy Gonz is better or worse than Foldem or Holem, they both have the same affliction.

      My question to you would be, If one can’t correct the current fiasco, how is one to correct actions by the batch of fools, especially since the current folks at 1600 are all that concerned about it?

      • TeakWoodKite

        by the last batch of fools,

  • wanderer

    OK, this may get me banned for the sin of “defending Bush 43,” this regardless of my longtime Independent political status (of which you’re all aware) and the approval my previous posts have received here. I also know that it’s too bloody long.

    But here goes, anyway.

    (Background music, For What It’s Worth, by Buffalo Springfield, ref. lines, “Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep …” If you haven’t listened to it lately, do so–the points it makes are just as relevant today as they were in the 60s.)

    The belief that George W. Bush (regardless of what any of us think of him, or of his policies, or of his failures or successes, or of the legitimacy of Supreme Court’s decision in the 2000 election) ever had any intention of usurping the orderly political process of executive succession in order to stay in office beyond the end of his second term is the product of a specific, long-term campaign of corporate media-disseminated disinformation and corporate media-induced paranoia. The same applies to VP Dick Cheney, whatever else he may have done or not done while in office. It also applies to the other member of the Republican establishment under Pres43. Even the most cynical members of the Republican Party (including those who aren’t too big on the ideals of the Constitution and might consider violating it so blatantly if they thought they could get away with it) are not that bloody stupid. They also still, to this day, adhere to the “gentleman’s agreement” that used to exist between the parties before the present group of radicals hijacked the once-great Democratic party and reneged on that agreement.

    This extra-Constitutional, unwritten agreement, in general, is used to ensure that the transition of power, despite any bitterness on the part of the losers, takes place smoothly. The parties have traditionally adhered to this agreement in part to guarantee the integrity of the process, but also, in large part, to maintain their dominance within and stranglehold upon the two-party political system. It’s a part cynical, part noble, and typically American political compromise–it generally works, or it used to work.

    Obvious evidence of how this agreement works is the close personal friendship and working relationship that former Presidents George H. W. Bush and William J. Clinton have formed. When the two of them visited Galveston after the hurricane hit last year, Pres42 suggested, and Pres41 readily agreed, that, once he’d finished his term in office, they would do their best to co-opt Pres43 into their Bush-Clinton humanitarian initiative. I don’t think either of them were lying, and I don’t think either of them would have suggested this if they thought that Pres43 would have ever violated his oath and the Constitution to seize power or extend his term unlawfully.

    Yes, I have my suspicions and my concerns about the present administration’s intentions, these based on what happened in the Democratic primaries, the obvious reneging by the “new” Democratic party on the “gentleman’s agreement,” election support from shady groups like ACORN and the SEIU, and the destructive nature of just about all of its actions and proposed programs. Still, until we see what happens in the 2010 and the 2012 elections … well, I’ll withhold my judgement as to whether or not the members of the present administration might indeed be that bloody stupid.

    The primary tactic that this administration’s backers used to put it into office was the sowing of disregard, divisiveness, hatred, and outright paranoia among not only their political enemies but among their supposed political friends–and it started at least ten years ago. Most of you here first recognized the existence/use of this tactic when it was shamefully turned against Sen. Clinton and even Pres42 during the primaries; some of us had become aware of it much earlier, especially as it was used extensively against Pres43. The shock troops, the front men in the paranoia campaign against Pres43 were the same group of corporate media hacks who later attacked Sen. Hillary Clinton, Pres42 Bill Clinton, Sen. John McCain, and Gov. Sara Palin in exactly the same fashion, using exactly the same tactics. This is the same group of corporate media hacks who have fallen all over themselves to support every aspect of this administration and its policies, no matter how cynical, corrupt, or destructive.

    Tingles up the leg, anyone?

    Yeah, I know that I liked Pres43 better than most here, but then, I also liked Pres42 enough to vote for him and to support some aspects his agenda–I’m an Independent, remember?–even while I disagreed with others. I’ve never blindly supported any political figure. My standard answer to any enthusiast is that the politician never lived and never will that I’d trust as far as I can toss a cheesecake under water.

    In fact, my biggest gripe with Pres43′s performance in office has a bearing on this subject. It was something that he overlooked in his zeal to effectively prosecute the war (something I heartily approved of) against the enemy. To wit, the fact that his expansions of executive powers would persist beyond the end of his term and the end of the war; the fact that there was never any guarantee that those powers wouldn’t be abused by his successors, that they might be used against someone other than the enemy.

    Scary thought, that–especially nowadays.

    There’s always a danger when you cede too much citizen power to public servants, even for the best of reasons, and I believe that we’ve certainly allowed that to occur in the past half century. As Heinlein noted through one of his fictional characters (paraphrased from memory here), “In most advanced societies, ‘civil servant’ can be translated as ‘civil master.’” This condition is what we should be most concerned about, and what we should guard against, and, I think, what the present administration and its backers plan to bring about (or bring to an even greater consummation than already exists).

    Juvenal said it best: “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” (Who watches the watchmen?)

    I think it’s up to you and me–all of us–to watch the watchers. It’s up to you and me not to be deceived by disinformation, or to allow ourselves to be divided, or to give in to hatred, or to allow paranoia-mongers to addle our brains with fear.

    Paranoia Strikes Deep.

    • Docelder

      Well written. We shall see, but with the prosecutions for “torture”… the near fourth reich mentality shown so far from AG Holder… the blatant corruption and cronyism shown by this administration and the blind following of a man who hasn’t shown that he can do anything so far but speak… We will see if this last transfer of power was the last peaceful transfer of power. Banana republics beget violence. How did we get here since Bush I? It was slow creeping and insidious moral corruption that nobody noticed, or if they did nobody much cared. It has grown with each administration until he we find ourselves saddled with a de facto dictator and a near banana republic.

  • Silence Dogood

    Banned for stating an opinion? I think folks are mistaking the actions of the spam filter for banning, which has a mind of its own sometimes. Or some may have been banned by other sites for not marching in goose step with the predominant views of that site. You won’t be banned here for your comments about Bush II.

    For anyone who feels opinions like yours are unpopular because they perceive this as an against Bush II against Obama blog I state the following:

    Generally speaking it is true the general sentiment of this blog is against Bush II and Obama as well. That being said, it is also true some of us would rather have Bush II in office than Obama, lesser of two evils axiom applies. We never thought we would say that, either.

  • CentralMass

    Our tax dollars hard at work…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ6SrZODbHg

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