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	<title>Comments on: New York Says No, New Jersey Says Probably Not, and Rick Warren SHOULD Have Said No</title>
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	<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/</link>
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		<title>By: r4i</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1285745</link>
		<dc:creator>r4i</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 11:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1285745</guid>
		<description>I can frankly say from away staying of NY or NJ, My favorite is NY...because my sweet sister staying there. I have watched so many photos of her and with city. Looks very nice and I also want to visit it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can frankly say from away staying of NY or NJ, My favorite is NY&#8230;because my sweet sister staying there. I have watched so many photos of her and with city. Looks very nice and I also want to visit it now.</p>
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		<title>By: whoframedrudy</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283902</link>
		<dc:creator>whoframedrudy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283902</guid>
		<description>&quot;The full faith and credit clause covers the fact others states must recognize a same sex marriage consecrated in another state where it is legal. DOMA is clearly unconstitutional.&quot;

We&#039;ve got to be careful.  You&#039;re making &lt;em&gt;exactly&lt;/em&gt; the same argument Orrin Hatch made for amending the Federal Constitution to ban gay marriage.

Our only defense against the federal version of Prop 8 was the Congress. Many of the Senators who voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment said either (1) it was unnecessary because of DOMA or (2) it&#039;s a state issue, not a federal issue.  But you want SCOTUS to make it a federal issue?  SCOTUS can be over-ruled just like the California Supreme Court.  Except that where it&#039;s possible to reverse Prop 8, it would take 100 years to repeal the FMA.

Right now the unpopular Dems have supermajorities they didn&#039;t earn.  One terrorist attack, or deeper recession, and the Repubs could end up with large majorities, coupled with surviving, nervous Blue Dogs, to bring back the FMA.  So the last thing we need is SCOTUS to get involved.

I&#039;m very critical of our strategy.  With all respect to Evan Wolfson, he led us into an ambush in 2004.  When a general leads his troops into a slaughter, you don&#039;t make him Supreme Allied Commander.  But that&#039;s exactly what we&#039;ve done, pushing the Marriage Equality lobby to the forefront of the broader gay liberation struggle.

Amy, I wasn&#039;t surprised by NY.  At a press conference before the vote, the director of Empire State Pride looked like he needed to pass a cantaloupe.  My guess is they were pressed to push up the vote for Patterson&#039;s benefit.  The spin was &#039;just getting a floor vote was a victory.&#039;

The NY state senate is a brothel that should be closed by the Health Dept. Everybody in the state knows it.  Every dollar we waste on those skeezers would be better spent supporting gays in the Red States.  They face the worst discrimination.  The poster is right about one thing:  &quot;one conversation at a time.&quot;  Starting in the Bible Belt, not Greenwich Village.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The full faith and credit clause covers the fact others states must recognize a same sex marriage consecrated in another state where it is legal. DOMA is clearly unconstitutional.&#8221;</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve got to be careful.  You&#8217;re making <em>exactly</em> the same argument Orrin Hatch made for amending the Federal Constitution to ban gay marriage.</p>
<p>Our only defense against the federal version of Prop 8 was the Congress. Many of the Senators who voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment said either (1) it was unnecessary because of DOMA or (2) it&#8217;s a state issue, not a federal issue.  But you want SCOTUS to make it a federal issue?  SCOTUS can be over-ruled just like the California Supreme Court.  Except that where it&#8217;s possible to reverse Prop 8, it would take 100 years to repeal the FMA.</p>
<p>Right now the unpopular Dems have supermajorities they didn&#8217;t earn.  One terrorist attack, or deeper recession, and the Repubs could end up with large majorities, coupled with surviving, nervous Blue Dogs, to bring back the FMA.  So the last thing we need is SCOTUS to get involved.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m very critical of our strategy.  With all respect to Evan Wolfson, he led us into an ambush in 2004.  When a general leads his troops into a slaughter, you don&#8217;t make him Supreme Allied Commander.  But that&#8217;s exactly what we&#8217;ve done, pushing the Marriage Equality lobby to the forefront of the broader gay liberation struggle.</p>
<p>Amy, I wasn&#8217;t surprised by NY.  At a press conference before the vote, the director of Empire State Pride looked like he needed to pass a cantaloupe.  My guess is they were pressed to push up the vote for Patterson&#8217;s benefit.  The spin was &#8216;just getting a floor vote was a victory.&#8217;</p>
<p>The NY state senate is a brothel that should be closed by the Health Dept. Everybody in the state knows it.  Every dollar we waste on those skeezers would be better spent supporting gays in the Red States.  They face the worst discrimination.  The poster is right about one thing:  &#8220;one conversation at a time.&#8221;  Starting in the Bible Belt, not Greenwich Village.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283289</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283289</guid>
		<description>Lot a good that questioning did for an interned American of Japanese decent during WWII.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lot a good that questioning did for an interned American of Japanese decent during WWII.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283284</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283284</guid>
		<description>&quot;people like&quot;...

I consider this phrase to be very dangerous. 

Die endgültige Lösung begann mit den Worten &quot;Leute wie&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;people like&#8221;&#8230;</p>
<p>I consider this phrase to be very dangerous. </p>
<p>Die endgültige Lösung begann mit den Worten &#8220;Leute wie&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283283</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283283</guid>
		<description>Depends on which country. Hezbolla gets to keep their arms caches in Lebanon, I read this week, so ...who will they defend? Great point Easton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on which country. Hezbolla gets to keep their arms caches in Lebanon, I read this week, so &#8230;who will they defend? Great point Easton.</p>
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		<title>By: Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283280</link>
		<dc:creator>Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283280</guid>
		<description>Taxation without representation is what I have now, since the last election was a scam. Those dip$hits were not elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxation without representation is what I have now, since the last election was a scam. Those dip$hits were not elected.</p>
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		<title>By: TeakWoodKite</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283276</link>
		<dc:creator>TeakWoodKite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283276</guid>
		<description>GLBT community does not constitute a big enough constituency.

No taxation without representation. Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GLBT community does not constitute a big enough constituency.</p>
<p>No taxation without representation. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283265</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283265</guid>
		<description>Oh please.  Then he shouldn&#039;t have made these b.s. promises out on the campaign trail.   You defend him to the point of defying all sense.  Basically, since the evangelicals constitute the biggest voting block -- and are his next target, then that justifies throwing everyone else under the bus to get THEM?  Do I have that right?  And since the AA community are experiencing worse unemployment than any group right now, he has thrown them under the bus, too?  In favor of whom, exactly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh please.  Then he shouldn&#8217;t have made these b.s. promises out on the campaign trail.   You defend him to the point of defying all sense.  Basically, since the evangelicals constitute the biggest voting block &#8212; and are his next target, then that justifies throwing everyone else under the bus to get THEM?  Do I have that right?  And since the AA community are experiencing worse unemployment than any group right now, he has thrown them under the bus, too?  In favor of whom, exactly?</p>
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		<title>By: VinceP</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283243</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 02:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283243</guid>
		<description>In my first comment I said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Gay Marriage is a vector that the Left is using as a wrecking ball to establish a moral framework whereby the youth will have absolutely no family model to aspire to.

This will lead to a demographic , cultural and economic collapse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This Press Release from the Pacific Justice Institute (a group I know nothing about) serves as a good example of how the Left will use Gay Marriage to make the argument that anyone holding to traditional values is a threat to the Left&#039;s Utopia of No Standards and Models. In this Utopia everything is Tolerated except those things to which it is opposed.

(I feel obligated to state clearly that I by no means  have the opinion that all advocates of gay-marriage share in this radical aim, I realize many people legitimately view this issue as a natural evolution from the past civil rights movements..... I think those good-natured folks have not critically examined the unintended consequences of gay marriage)

&lt;blockquote&gt;Parents Take a Beating from School District, Court in Anti-Bullying Case
City: 
Alameda, CA
Date: 
12/01/2009

A judge today slammed parents as “bigots” for seeking to excuse their elementary-age children from controversial pro-homosexual curriculum. The parents are being represented in court by Pacific Justice Institute.

PJI Chief Counsel Kevin Snider argued in Alameda Superior Court today on behalf of parents seeking to enforce a provision of the California Education Code that gives parents the right to opt their kids out of health education. Alameda Superior Court Judge Frank Roesch lambasted the parents, repeatedly insinuating that they are bigots and insisting there can be no homosexual indoctrination because people are born that way. The judge equated a view contrary to his own with creationism and called both false.

The legal battle over Alameda’s anti-bullying curriculum has intensified in recent weeks. Leading up to today’s hearing, attorneys for the school district grilled parents in depositions about their religious beliefs. Parents were asked numerous questions about church attendance, sermons they had heard against homosexuality, and whether they were aware that the Bible had been used to defend racism and oppression&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my first comment I said:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Gay Marriage is a vector that the Left is using as a wrecking ball to establish a moral framework whereby the youth will have absolutely no family model to aspire to.</p>
<p>This will lead to a demographic , cultural and economic collapse.</p></blockquote>
<p>This Press Release from the Pacific Justice Institute (a group I know nothing about) serves as a good example of how the Left will use Gay Marriage to make the argument that anyone holding to traditional values is a threat to the Left&#8217;s Utopia of No Standards and Models. In this Utopia everything is Tolerated except those things to which it is opposed.</p>
<p>(I feel obligated to state clearly that I by no means  have the opinion that all advocates of gay-marriage share in this radical aim, I realize many people legitimately view this issue as a natural evolution from the past civil rights movements&#8230;.. I think those good-natured folks have not critically examined the unintended consequences of gay marriage)</p>
<blockquote><p>Parents Take a Beating from School District, Court in Anti-Bullying Case<br />
City:<br />
Alameda, CA<br />
Date:<br />
12/01/2009</p>
<p>A judge today slammed parents as “bigots” for seeking to excuse their elementary-age children from controversial pro-homosexual curriculum. The parents are being represented in court by Pacific Justice Institute.</p>
<p>PJI Chief Counsel Kevin Snider argued in Alameda Superior Court today on behalf of parents seeking to enforce a provision of the California Education Code that gives parents the right to opt their kids out of health education. Alameda Superior Court Judge Frank Roesch lambasted the parents, repeatedly insinuating that they are bigots and insisting there can be no homosexual indoctrination because people are born that way. The judge equated a view contrary to his own with creationism and called both false.</p>
<p>The legal battle over Alameda’s anti-bullying curriculum has intensified in recent weeks. Leading up to today’s hearing, attorneys for the school district grilled parents in depositions about their religious beliefs. Parents were asked numerous questions about church attendance, sermons they had heard against homosexuality, and whether they were aware that the Bible had been used to defend racism and oppression</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: VinceP</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283193</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283193</guid>
		<description>Hi HT.  Since you refer to it but never name it (or I might have missed it), can I ask you what country you&#039;re writing about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi HT.  Since you refer to it but never name it (or I might have missed it), can I ask you what country you&#8217;re writing about?</p>
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		<title>By: VinceP</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283155</link>
		<dc:creator>VinceP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283155</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s been exposed?  What a strange formulation.

I express my opinion , putting value more in societal demographic security and growth.

I believe those principles supersede whatever emotional need an individual has to live a life where he could force everyone to not disagree with him.

The Left has done a great job in Europe turning critical , society-changing policy debates into a Thought Police where no one could say the obvious for fear of being called a &quot;racist&quot;

Now their entire survivability as a Civilization is threatened.

All because Leftists were able to cower people from speaking by using the &quot;Oh you&#039;re a hater&quot; accusation they have mastered so well.

What&#039;s been exposed in your small mind? That I dont adhere to absurd political correct mumbled thinking?

Guilty as charged   and i&#039;m not even black.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s been exposed?  What a strange formulation.</p>
<p>I express my opinion , putting value more in societal demographic security and growth.</p>
<p>I believe those principles supersede whatever emotional need an individual has to live a life where he could force everyone to not disagree with him.</p>
<p>The Left has done a great job in Europe turning critical , society-changing policy debates into a Thought Police where no one could say the obvious for fear of being called a &#8220;racist&#8221;</p>
<p>Now their entire survivability as a Civilization is threatened.</p>
<p>All because Leftists were able to cower people from speaking by using the &#8220;Oh you&#8217;re a hater&#8221; accusation they have mastered so well.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s been exposed in your small mind? That I dont adhere to absurd political correct mumbled thinking?</p>
<p>Guilty as charged   and i&#8217;m not even black.</p>
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		<title>By: jbjd</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283138</link>
		<dc:creator>jbjd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283138</guid>
		<description>Slaves did not constitute a majority in this country, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slaves did not constitute a majority in this country, either.</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283130</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283130</guid>
		<description>The CATHOLIC  BISHOPS, of course, and naturally, voted NO TO GAY MARRIAGE!

Why should they not for Heaven&#039;s name!

Only SEXUAL UNIONS BETWEEN BOYS AND BISHOPS ARE PERMITTED!

Wonder how these penis heads who have no clue as to female anatomy ever get to have a voice from our First Covert Gay Prez!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CATHOLIC  BISHOPS, of course, and naturally, voted NO TO GAY MARRIAGE!</p>
<p>Why should they not for Heaven&#8217;s name!</p>
<p>Only SEXUAL UNIONS BETWEEN BOYS AND BISHOPS ARE PERMITTED!</p>
<p>Wonder how these penis heads who have no clue as to female anatomy ever get to have a voice from our First Covert Gay Prez!</p>
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		<title>By: HT</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283110</link>
		<dc:creator>HT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283110</guid>
		<description>BTW, when I indicate &quot;more important topics&quot; I mean that same sex marriage should be a given. I recognize that it&#039;s important, but it should not be because it should be a given. It&#039;s all about Equal rights. 
I don&#039;t suggest that organized religion should be forced to perform the marriages - that&#039;s their problem if they choose not to do so. 
Equal Rights. That&#039;s the tickets, and the religions that don&#039;t recognize that - may that subside into the quagmire that swallowed Macedonia and Rome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, when I indicate &#8220;more important topics&#8221; I mean that same sex marriage should be a given. I recognize that it&#8217;s important, but it should not be because it should be a given. It&#8217;s all about Equal rights.<br />
I don&#8217;t suggest that organized religion should be forced to perform the marriages &#8211; that&#8217;s their problem if they choose not to do so.<br />
Equal Rights. That&#8217;s the tickets, and the religions that don&#8217;t recognize that &#8211; may that subside into the quagmire that swallowed Macedonia and Rome.</p>
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		<title>By: HT</title>
		<link>http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/37301/new-york-says-no-new-jersey-says-probably-not-and-rick-warren-should-have-said-no/#comment-1283106</link>
		<dc:creator>HT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/?p=37301#comment-1283106</guid>
		<description>Whew, thanks Peggy Sue, I thought I had offended by only saying that we have had Gay Marriage for the past 5 years, and yes we had the same pushback from the religious and other communities. It hasn&#039;t resulted in a breakdown in man/woman marriage (that was self imploding at close to 5o% before same sex marriage became law). 
Gay marriage is a carrot to distract people from more important topics - unemployment, health care, social security. My personal opinion - it needs to be enshrined in law, so the populace can focus on more important topics that are, truly more pertinent to their life. (I.E. how many same Sex couples have caused people to lose their jobs? And how many same sex couples forced your president to bail out his corporate donors? - just asking) BTW, we&#039;ve had same sex marriage these last 5 years. It was fought against for sure, but passed. In those 5 years, the earth did not tilt on it&#039;s axis, marriage/divorce statistic remained the same and the sun remained the center of this part of the universe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew, thanks Peggy Sue, I thought I had offended by only saying that we have had Gay Marriage for the past 5 years, and yes we had the same pushback from the religious and other communities. It hasn&#8217;t resulted in a breakdown in man/woman marriage (that was self imploding at close to 5o% before same sex marriage became law).<br />
Gay marriage is a carrot to distract people from more important topics &#8211; unemployment, health care, social security. My personal opinion &#8211; it needs to be enshrined in law, so the populace can focus on more important topics that are, truly more pertinent to their life. (I.E. how many same Sex couples have caused people to lose their jobs? And how many same sex couples forced your president to bail out his corporate donors? &#8211; just asking) BTW, we&#8217;ve had same sex marriage these last 5 years. It was fought against for sure, but passed. In those 5 years, the earth did not tilt on it&#8217;s axis, marriage/divorce statistic remained the same and the sun remained the center of this part of the universe.</p>
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