Current Article

Do we want “President Hasselhoff”?

By SusanUnPC on July 24, 2008 at 6:55 PM in Barack Obama, Germany

DID any of the rest of you notice that the “million people” expected in Berlin turned into a paltry 200,000 — one-fifth the estimated crowd, many there surely to hear the rock concert?

Now this, via a naughty reporter at Politico.com:

Did today’s Obama speech remind anyone else of …

This groundbreaking moment? Which reminds us of what Republican consultant Doug Heye said on FNC over the weekend: “We don’t want President Hasselhoff.”

Catch more reactions at Memeorandum.com.

I won’t join O’s freak show

I do not want O as our POTUS.

Morgan

Me neither, but comparing him to Obama is an insult to David Hasselhoff. They’ve gone too far this time.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/contribute/IJ97 Jimbus

“Doesn’t it seem the smell is falling over us tonight?”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBMD4oWdB2g

Oh, wait, it’s spell.
BernieO

I have heard Hasselhoff talk about how weird he found it that the Germans wanted him to do this. At least he has the sense to not take himself too seriously.
Here is a great article about Obama’s hubris (from a conservative site but well reasoned):
“A Runaway Ego is Obama’s Blind Spot”
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/a_runaway_ego_is_baracks_blind.html

Also read their article “Obama on Jerusalem Properly Phrased”. It is an eye opener and shows just how Obama deliberately talks out of both sides of his mouth then fudges and says things like his speech was “poorly worded” when he had told Jewish audiences them same thing before – IN WRITING. The dishonestly is blatant. At least the much-maligned Katie Couric pressed him on this.
(http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/07/obama_on_jerusalem_properly_ph.html

Dawnelle

LOL I’m giving you guys so many ideas!

(ribrib)

about David
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/contribute/IJ97 Jimbus

As you may have heard, Barack has been in Europe, the Middle East, and Asia this week.

Today, he spoke in Berlin, Germany.

In a city where a wall once divided the free from the oppressed, he talked about tearing down the walls that divide all peoples so we can address our common problems — the threats of terrorism and nuclear weapons, global warming and genocide, AIDS and poverty.

Watch Barack’s historic speech and share it with your friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XtGGx2Xjog

Please forward this email to your friends, family, and colleagues.

Thanks,

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America

http://home.comcast.net/~vincep312 VinceP1974

Hasn’t Obama watched Superman IV and learned the lesson when someone has the hubris of actually believing that he can rid the world of nuclear weapons.

Look what happened to Christopher Reeve
Darryl

Funny sounds like what hilter talked about. Obama wasn’t anywhere around when the walls were being torn down.

red_sleeves

If Obama were driving around in KITT I might consider him for the job… If KITT was VP.

Maybe.

Ehhhh, negative on my last, KITT wouldn’t help.

ginaswo still says no Uhhbama

BWAAAHAAAAAA!!!

Ive been lookin for Freedom..
sing it, KITT on background vocals!

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/contribute/IJ97 Jimbus

How LOW can you go Barack?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfaQuk5tEKE

Do the Limbo Dance!
helen

GINA
in all the wrong places////

COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMA RULES

Can’t stand Obama’s crybabies

Bamboozler. On the other hand, look at the idols and how they have gone pouf!

Hope Floats

Meanwhile, Hillary is working hard in the Senate, and John McCain visited a German restaurant in Ohio. He is meeting with the Dalai Lama in Aspen and also doing a cancer benefit with Lance Armstrong. It seems more hearts and minds are won at home than abroad, if you look at how Hillary and McCain are polling compared to Obama. No bump from his world tour.

Patti

Yes, plus they mocked him because he looked too much like a “grandpop” shopping foor “cheese” with an American woman and her children.

ok. All Grandpops! under the fucking bus, now!

http://texashillblog.wordpress.com Texas Hill Country

looks like someone at politico might have been reading my blog LOL –

From July 12

http://texashillblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/12/obama-aint-no-hasselhoff/
Disgusted

Let’s take a break from the poser and take a look at some real American heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b_rqh_NzX0&feature=related

Notice at the 2:16 mark.

What happened to you Jesse?

wodiej

excellent, thank you for posting……

GOD BLESS AMERICA….and all those who have fought for liberty, justice and democracy.
C.S.

We needed the reminder. Glory days. Great leaders.

Bush. Obama. How much lower can we go.
Patti

I am not ashamed to tell you that tears arre streaming down my face.

America. Remember?

The crying shame is that David Axelrod would subject us his fellow Americans to such a hoax.

Why David? Your so-called candidate was not even present in our Country and is no way affected or influenced by these events. So what’s the deal?

Why do you hate your Country so badly that you would wrap our history around that know-nothing
johnny-come-lately? There is no relevance at all.

We’re just so downright mean, Michelle. Shame on you and fuck you. You spew; how can Hillary run the White House when she cannot even run her own house?
Why don’t you just take a peek outside – on your front lawn, your backyard and the fucking ripoff you pulled on your own people. Public Service my Ass. This calls for a dinner party! Who shall we invite?

I smell treason. Plagarism is just a drop in the bucket. I smell uers and abusers. Obama the Kenyan, be proud of your heritage. You are sooo special. I cannot wait to see you in handcuffs coming out of the Senate at lunchtime in DC.

The three of you need to pack up, grab your families and leave. Bad Bye.

Disgusted, thank you for reminding me why I come on board to relate and commiserate.

No imposter ever for the Presidency of America the Beautiful. It’s a Coup.

Yo Berlin, take a gander. This is NOT what you witnessed today.

BettsAZ

Amen,Patti!
Excellent post!
Hope Floats

When you told Michelle Obama to look in her own yard and ripping off the people, I thought of that stupid fence debacle with Rezko and Curtis’ broken skull. I can’t tell you how much I loathe the Obamas just for playing on people’s sympathies. Except there are a lot of mean Americans who think, “I like my health plan just fine.”

Betty

Thank you through my tears.
helen

Thank you.
that brought back a lot of memories.
my son was born in june 1968.
they were very turbulent times.
we saw the best and the worst of this country.
the 1960′s brought a lot of changes to this country some good and some bad.

COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMA RULES

TeaMug

Just posted this on the below thread, excuse me while I bump it up onto this one!!

Comment by TeaMug | 2008-07-24 18:58:42

Next stop Britain… a diplomatic minefield
By Andrew Grice, Political Editor
Friday, 25 July 2008

Gordon Brown will resist the temptation to try to make some of the “Obama effect” rub off on him when he meets the US presidential candidate in London tomorrow.

Some allies hoped that the Prime Minister would break with protocol by holding a joint news conference with Barack Obama after their scheduled 45 minutes of talks in Downing Street. Instead, the two men will be pictured together but Mr Obama will be alone when he speaks to journalists afterwards.

Diplomatic niceties mean that Mr Obama must get exactly the same treatment as his Republican rival, John McCain, enjoyed when he visited No 10 in March. Officials said that getting too close to the Democrat candidate could backfire if the Republican candidate won November’s presidential election.

Some Brown advisers feared that David Cameron might try to upstage the Prime Minister by speaking alongside Mr Obama or going on a brief walkabout with him after he leaves Downing Street, but that now looks unlikely to happen.

Mr Obama’s talks with Mr Brown will focus on Iraq and Afghanistan, where they have a common agenda. Obama and Brown aides will swap notes on the Democrats’ new-wave campaign techniques and Labour’s public service reforms. Mr Obama will also meet Tony Blair in his capacity as Middle East envoy.

Source:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/next-stop-britain-a-diplomatic-minefield-876783.html

Obama is due in UK Saturday..I hope the British journalists have a chance to ask questions and that the American Media don’t hog all the space outside 10 Downing Street.

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

Wonder if Obama will swing by Nadhmi Auchi’s place for a world-class Iraqi dinner.
Georgia

I’d love to see the Brits ask some of those “tough” questions the “yanks” on this side of the pond are afraid to ask………. how about it???

TeaMug

I totally agree with you..
justme

Oh you can count on that from a Brit…

No flies on them…

mahaska

Wait till bo finds out he doesn’t really speak English either.
nya haha

Patti

Now you’re talking. With that fake down-home affect. He is not African American. No way. No how.

He’s American African whether he likes it or not. And he is using our people to make it look like he is one of their own. He ain’t folks.

Arugla is not soul food and he is not soulful.

He’s a wannabe American when it fits with his theme of the day.

Fucking Ripoff!

BluDawg

322
katmandu

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/24/1219722.aspx

MSNBC can’t get its hands on Obama’s senior thesis. (They won’t get his Columbia transcript either, which Obama will not release.) Now I don’t care what a 21 year old has to say about the arms race, even if he is running for Prez now, but this is part of a pattern. The MSM is finding that out now, as the New Republic explains:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=6e9f4a42-9540-4d99-aba2-25adc276c25d
meileen

Secret service now asking for more money to cover candidates. Can’t post link, so following is article that, of course, has a lean to the positive for the One. Funny how McCain did not obtain security coverage until April of this year. And of course, no mention of the concerts prior to the anointed one speaking:

WASHINGTON – The Secret Service has asked for an extra $9.5 million to cover unexpected costs of protecting the presidential candidates during what has turned into an historic year for the agency’s campaign security job.

Among other things, the extra money would be used for the added costs for the candidates’ international travel and a late-in-the-game decision by Barack Obama to accept the Democratic nomination at Denver’s Invesco Field at Mile High — an open-air, 76,000-seat stadium — instead of the 20,000-seat Pepsi Center, which is the site of the party’s national convention.

Presidential candidates are traveling overseas with Secret Service protection more than ever before.

Obama is on a six-day trip to Jordan, Israel, Germany, France and Britain. Before that he was on a three-day congressionally sponsored trip to Afghanistan and Iraq. Republican candidate John McCain has traveled to Canada, Colombia and Mexico under the agency’s protection.

The 2008 presidential campaign cycle is the longest in Secret Service history by about five months. The Secret Service budgeted $106.65 million for the 2008 campaign cycle, compared to $73.3 million in 2004.

“I thought we had a very, very good plan in place for the campaign,” Secret Service Director Mark Sullivan said in an interview with The Associated Press earlier this week. “If past history was any type of an indicator, we anticipated picking up protection somewhere in January, February, March of 2008.”

“But the campaigns are different now,” Sullivan said.

Obama received Secret Service protection on May 3, 2007 — the earliest the agency has ever stepped in to protect a candidate. Obama, who frequently draws crowds in the thousands at campaign stops, requested the protection. At the time, the Secret Service and Homeland Security officials said they were not aware of any threats to the senator.

McCain picked up protection on April 27 of this year.

During the 2008 campaign, the agency has protected candidates on about 1,500 trips; and each trip has included three to eight stops. To secure the candidates on these trips, the Secret Service has used about 2,200 magnetometers to screen about 1.5 million people.

The crowds have also been larger than expected. For instance, on May 18, in Portland, Ore., an Obama event was expected to draw 20,000. But instead, 75,000 showed, the Secret Service said. And Thursday, in Berlin, Germany, Obama drew a crowd of about 200,000, according to local law enforcement.

These are not the first candidates to travel internationally. In 1984, then-Democratic hopeful Jesse Jackson traveled to three countries in Latin America, the Secret Service said.

“One of the things I’ve been most proud of is our work force, because it has been a long campaign, but they have been incredible, enthusiastic and just done a terrific job with the campaign,” Sullivan said.

Congress is currently considering the request for additional funds, which was made earlier this summer. The money would be drawn from other programs within the Homeland Security Department, the Secret Service’s parent agency.

The Secret Service was formed in 1865 to investigate counterfeit currency. It started protecting major presidential candidates in 1968.

yttik

LOL, bummer. I say no to more spending! They’ll just have to tighten their belts, pull themselves up by the bootstaps. I think we should lock the candidates up nice and safe when they use all their secret service money. We’ll let them out when it’s a new fiscal year.

s. hall

yttik — when the rest of the World gets to vote for President then we can give the Secret Service more money to cover Obama. Obama’s job is to influence voters in the USA not to pretend he’s president and that he can make Foreign Policy decisions.

Patti

Its probably a good time to bring on the Bow Ties. He finally has an excuse.

It was only a matter of time.

C.S.

I know they like to pretend that the Treasury just fills up like an Artesian well, but that’s OUR money that we could use to pay for gas, food, clothing and mortgage payments before they foreclose on our homes and I say let Mr. Obama put the squeeze on the same “friends” who helped buy his mansion before we shell out one dime to pay for his world sightseeing tour.

He’s not even a nominated candidate! Just some freshman Senator that the Senior Senators used to make do the grunt work. This arrogance has no place in a Democracy. And they had better start listening to We the People before We start plastering copies of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution all over their chambers.

Amabo Kcarab

I had read some time ago that David Hasselhoff was well-known as a singer in Germany, but I never heard him in action. Until now.

Reruns of “Baywatch” will never be the same.
Daniel

Uh, I didn’t read anywhere they were expecting 200,000. Paltry? Obama’s previous record breaking crowd was 75,000.

Why say such blatant lies, they do nothing to help your cause. I’m sure that whitey tape will be out any day now. Yawn.

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

Daniel: The crowd was supposed to be a million.

The O camp put up flyers and posters all over the entire city, and they handed out invitations to every single person.

Point is: 150,000–200,000 people on a pretty day, is weak. David Hasselhoff gets way bigger crowds.

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

Oh, and did you know that Germany had to pay more than 1/2 million dollars of their own money to have Obama visit as a guest? Ya, some Germans don’t like that crap. And they don’t like that they were not allowed to bring their own signs, and that it was so controlled. And some didn’t like that he gave his speech at Hitler’s Victory Column, OH, and he cancelled visiting with wounded vets in Germany…probably not enough space in the hospital hallways to fit his 25 camera crews.
ellen

Prove it…show me the flyers or the link. i really would like to see it, as I vaguely recall seeing the 1,000,000 figure, but it was not from the Obama camp….it was just a figure thrown out by a pundit

http://OTliesvideo Lyn

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/berlin_event/
will you believe the German Flyer if it is on the great ones site? I would have told you to look here since there was a big post on it, but then you would just say everyone is lieing about the fraud

StrawberrybitesBarky

Ooooo SNAP! I’m guessing it forgot to check in with headquarter before spewing the talking points.

http://firefox AnnieCarmel

They came for the Rock Band and free beer and stayed for the speech.

mahaska

Oh and I forgot. free eats.
Bell’Artista

Free Beer….
in Germany?
hahahahahahahahahaha!
and they wonder why the Germans showed up?

oh yeah, and a band
http://OTliesvideo Lyn

and here is a link about the free concert before he spoke, since people still don’t believe there was also one in Portland
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/24/will-media-report-concert-obamas-berlin-speech
Well, it has been learned that before the presumptive Democrat nominee spoke to a crowd in Berlin Thursday, two popular German acts — reggae artist Patrice and rock band Reamonn — entertained the gathering audience.

BettsAZ

There were two rock concerts preceding Obama’s speech.Perhaps that had something to do with the masses of young people….y’think?

Hope Floats

“Yawn.” I guess Dopey, Grumpy, Sneezy and the rest will be getting back from the dayshift at the mine. It looks like Sleepy has weighed in.

I CAN’T WAIT TO SEE THE WHITEY TAPE, EITHER!

KJMontana

What’s the difference between Obama and Osama?

The second letter.

http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

I have got a hilarious comeback for this… but it would probably get me banned from this board.

Lemme just give you the set-up:

What’s the difference between Hillary and Bill?

(Y’all probably know where I’m going with this…)

justme

Wonder what he will pull out of his back pocket for them all when he looses….

FREE tissues? a sucker

Obamalice only go for the FREE offerings…

LOL freeloaders don’t you think

bemused

It will be more fun to see the tape where BO is trashing black people. I know it would be racist to call it the *la**y tape, but someone else will not refrain from doing so.

TeaMug

I heard they were expecting between 10,000 to one million. The German police stated it was around 200,000. I wonder if they were including the ones that were drinking beer in the beer tents, while the speech was happening. Just to mention, can’t remember the link, but those American flags that were waving about at the front, apparantly they were handed out by the democrates.

Marci C

Hey, so what? 200,000?

McCain had ONE REPORTER following him when he went see Bush I who is as old as McCain!

Gramps and Gramps! An exciting and fascinating adventure for McCain! Got to see the Atlantic Ocean! Can’t beat that!

alexei

Ageism really works well with you Obama followers.
http://firefox AnnieCarmel

And still, Grampa’s poll numbers are up 10 pts. over O’wonderboy in Ohio. Can we make him take another trip? Olympics, maybe?
HRocks

It’s call courtesy and manners, something that is missing on the Obama side.
TeaMug

That reminds me, you mentioned McCain..There is a photograph of a proud McCain supporter holding a huge umberlla with McCain signs dangling from it. Will try and find it.
mahaska

I certainly hope that when you are older, young people treat you with the same respect you show to your elders now.
I know it’s hard for you to understand or comprehend but unless you manage to kill yourself early, you also will be old. No matter how hard you try, you will slow down, you will turn gray, you will be in pain. believe it or not all those little injuries you now laugh off will be back to bite you.
You will be old and the youth will disrespect you and push you aside. And you for one, will deserve it.

stateofdisbelief

Everyone looks old to those who are still making doodees in their underoos.

KJMontana

What’s the difference between Barach Obama and Jesus?

Jesus actually IS the Messiah.

BettsAZ

What’s the difference between Barack Obama and Jesus?

Jesus liked Jews.

C.S.

I hate to break it you, Marci C, but Obama is old enough to be a grandpa, too. The guy’s almost 50 so all those adolesents running around campaigning for him probably have grandpas younger than Obama and they are campaigning for just another old man. And we know he’s beginning to have a lot of Senior moments.
Postmaster

Is that the best you can do? Attack McCain’s age? How petty and stupid.

basil

Actually, a couple of German papers printed the signs as part of their daily news so people could cut them out and color them in.

http://noquarterusa.net/ SusanUnPC

Daniel, reread what I wrote.

ABC News, Fox News, etc. — and CTV.ca — ALL reported that up to one million people were expected:

BBC News
Up to one million expected at Obama’s Berlin speech
CTV.ca, Canada – 9 hours ago
As many as one million people are expected to attend an open-air address in Berlin by US presidential candidate Barack Obama, who has achieved almost …

Obama’s tour de force
Melbourne Herald Sun, Australia – 9 hours ago
As many as a million people are expected to turn out to hear him talk about how US foreign policy would look under an Obama government. In Germany, Mr Obama …

New York Times
Aboard Obama’s Plane to Berlin
Washington Post, United States – 12 hours ago
Obama recoiled when a reporter asked whether the Berlin speech was really going to draw a million people, as some reports have estimated. …

and on and on. Check Google News.

TeaMug

BBC News
Up to one million expected at Obama’s Berlin speech

I wonder if they were taking the piss??

katmandu

Daniel, a million was predicted. It was all over the media. They should let you out of your cubicle.

Up to one million people were expected to attend the open-air keynote address by Obama, who has almost super-star status in the country.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080724/Obama_germany_080724/20080724?hub=World
s. hall

Daniel — Obama was expecting a million people.

mahaska

I was expecting a check. Didn’t get it. To quote the Stones “you can’t always get what you want”
Even you bo.

mahaska

it was 45,000, ass. why you keep up with the 75,000
lie I can’t figure out. And most were there to see a very popular local band. In case you don’t know, the Pacific Northwest is very music oriented.

http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

Wrong again, my friend. The NY Times estimated Obama spoke to 75,000 in Portland. It was John Kerry in 2004 who drew 45,000 in Portland. That’s the source of your confusion.

Google. Look into it.

http://OTliesvideo Lyn

Did Kerry need a popular local band to draw his crowd?

http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

As a matter of fact, Lyn… Kerry’s rally included a couple of songs from Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora.

I know they’re not the Decembrists, but hey… Kerry had to take whatever he could get, I suppose. ;^D

Leonardo DiCaprio also lent his star power to the Kerry rally.

http://www.share-international.org a nancy in name only

It was the band The Decemberists who drew 75,000
people in Portland. Obama spoke after the popular band.

mahaska

Decemberists were Russian aristocrat revolutionaries who led the first uprising in Russian history <
the crowd in Portland was 45,000, not 75000.
The band that played free was the Decemberists, named for these above mentioned revolutionaries.
That was also the concert where the obama people set up the portable toilets on top of the police memorial to fallen officers.
mahaska

BTW, it sure didn’t look like that many when they panned. more bo math. 2 and 2 is 5 cuz I say so.
Mary Kay

Why is it when someone reports something that a hard-core Obama supporter either has not read or doesn’t agree with, the person who makes the comment
is spreading “lies?”

bemused

Because people whose committment is based on emotions such as hope are floating on clouds and a solid fact brings them down. They are threatened and their natural response is denial. But eventually enough evidence contrary to their initial opinion can change that opinion. The fact that some of the visitors here keep harping on the same points over and over means those ones aren’t learning, they are hijacking the threads. Or if they are learning, they are leaving.

beverly leslie

From a poster at political:

“I am a German immigrant to the US. Please don’t be fooled the previous poster claiming things are better in Germany. Germany’s unemployement is almost double that of the USA, while GDP growth is lower. Also, don’t be fooled by large crowds in Tiergarten. Most of these people are greens, socialists, unemployed and other social misfits. They do not represents Germany. I will be getting my US citizenship soon, and unlike the clowns in Tiergarten I can cast a vote this fall. And I will vote McCain. Gruss Gott, Hermann”

Posted By: Hermann | July 24, 2008 at 06:36 PM
TeaMug

ha ha..so this what posters are on about about David Hasselhoff. I have never seen this..where have I been?? ha ah.

Hey..I hope our wonderful Puma’s are not responsible for clawing at his jeans!!

Hillary Clinton for President

s. hall

teamug — Jerry Lewis would draw a bigger crowd than Obama in Paris. If Obama was going to speak in Paris.

yttik

ROFL! Great thread, “We don’t want President Hasselhoff.”

Well actually if I have to choose one airhead over another, I think I’d rather go with Hasselhoff.

TeaMug

I would sleep with him if it helps.

mahaska

oh you’re bad.

Marci C

Yes! WE want 8 more years of incompetence, mass murder, trillions or OUR MONEY for war, tax cuts for the richest, millions of American families losing their homes, CEO’s running the government, more Republicans having fun in men’s rooms, more Abramofs, more gay prostitutes like Gukerty in the White House, higher gas prices, burning the constitution, spying on all Americans and lots and lots of torture!

HARP

And I suppose you believe he will change all that.
HRocks

Have you noticed how much money the CEO’s are contributing to Obama using a loophole?

In reality, nothing is going to change much regardless of who gets elected, McCain will keep things somewhat the same and Obama will need 4 years to learn how the government operates.

Meanwhile Obama will flip flop trying to make the “right” decisions based on who he is speaking with.
http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

Ok, Marci, I take it you are voting for Obama.
http://firefox AnnieCarmel

OK, you can trade a Resko for an Abramoff, Sinclair for Gukerty everything else stays the same with your boy…including FISA. That’s change you can count on alright.

Obama is owned by the corporate world. Don’t you check on his supporters or are you still swallowing all that crap about leeetle donations from the leeeetle people?

s. hall

annie carmel — There is one difference–Bush didn’t attend a racist church or numberLouis Farrahkan as one of his friends.
s. hall

annie carmel — There is one difference–Bush didn’t attend a racist church or number Louis Farrahkan as one of his friends.

wac for hillary

You don’t want this I gather. So why are you voting for Obama?
Mary Kay

Well, since Obama flipped and voted for FISA, I guess that’s exactly what we’ll get if he’s elected, too.
Indyvoter

Absolutely don’t want that! That’s why I pick McCain over Obama.

Inexperience, hubris, spying on Americans with no FISA court, accepts no criticism or responsibility, supporters are mad cultists who think their candidate is picked by God…

katmandu

Another Obama gaffe. From his speech: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/24/obama.words/index.html

Not only have walls come down in Berlin, but they have come down in Belfast, where Protestant and Catholic found a way to live together

From a recent USA Today article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-05-03-1826820552_x.htm

The headline:

Despite peace, Belfast walls are growing in size and number

wac for hillary

He probably copied it from one of President Clinton’s speeches and forgot to get somebody to check its accuracy now. Or he just figured the MSM wouldn’t call him on another mistake.
s. hall

katmandu — Obama might get away with that gaff–but how do you get away with saying a bomb fell on Pearl Harbor. He was raised in Hawaii. Surely he must have heard that the Japanese Bombed Pearl Harbor and Roosevelt declared war the next day. It was a really big war WW 2. In fact Obama’s uncle rescued the Jews of Auschwitz. Oh excuse me that was the Russians and Obama lied. Oh well….

Linda

I say KIT for President!

Karma

He wouldn’t need 300 advisors…lol

Marci C

McCain says he’ll be in Iraq for 100 years!

What a guy: he’s going to be 172 by then!

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

Don’t worry, vote for Obama and there will not be an Iraq to be in for 100 years. No Iraq for 100 years…no anywhere at all for any more years, ok?

….KAAAHHHBOOOMMM.

wac for hillary

I can see Obama saying, “But I meant to push the other button!”

csuzeq

Erkel, “Did I do that?”
Linda

OUCH. lol

Peggy Sue

And Obama says we need to:remake the world, again.

I hope he remakes it without his own perfection and comatose followers.

What a guy! The Alpha and the Omega.

Newsflash! We need a leader, not a faux Savior offering bubblegum promises, switcheroonies in “firm” policy and the inability to admit cow-pie mistakes. I don’t care what the Germans may or may not think. Because . . . they don’t get to vote in November.

But I do ).

PUMApac.org

mahaska

First he was jesus, now he’s god? go ahead bo, remake the work in the image of the south side.
mahaska

remake the world again? how many times ahs he remade it. You can make it, remake, and remake but you can’t remake it again. redundant.

s. hall

marci — you must get over this Obama fascination. Obama is a loser. Unless you call someone addicted to fame a winner. People are getting sick of him in this country so he runs to Germany to draw a crowd.
Postmaster

do you always just pick and choose what part of an answer you will quote? He did not say we would be in Iraq for a 100 years. Give your posts some credibility by being accurate.

ObamaNOT

I wonder if BO eats PORK? Anyone ever see him eat sausage, bacon, vienna weiners, etc?……

He is over there the darling of Europe, but he is inconsequential as Hitler, but all the media here is ‘goosestepping’ to Heir Bama……HE is a FASCIST that promotes socialism…..If he was potus in WWii, there would be no Jewish State….Just tell us BO, that if you arent a MUSLIM, say Mohammed was wrong to marry a 6 year old Aishia….

mahaska

He likes hot dogs. They’d better be turkey or kosher.

maniaco

“yes Barack does like weinies”

[signed]
Larry Sinclair

RJKT

Clearly the ‘Chermanns’ have not abandoned their “Fuhrerprinzip’. Well ,if they are so obsessed with Obama ,why don’t they go right ahead and make Him their Fuhrer.

That way ,the vacuous and inane grandchildren can get to experience ,for themselves, the ‘thrills’ their grandparents once knew : ” Strength through Joy’ ,”Arbeit Macht Frei” , and all that jazz.

fred

Warning Warning Purchase At Your Own Risk
The Pee on Obama Bumper Sticker Will Get You Followed Home By An Obama Cult Memember

Heres The Bumper Sticker http://tinyurl.com/6fe5p9

Heres The Story Of The Person Followed Home http://tinyurl.com/5c2ogf

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

OMG. People are getting out of control…

http://www.patriotroom.com Bill Dupray

Obama Does 7 1/2 minute Porky Pig Impression in One Press Conference

The Master Orator Stepping All Over His Poncho

http://patriotroom.com/?p=604

d2d

OMG – that is so painful to listen too.

I’m no fan of Limbaugh but I appreciate his airing this absolute nonsense

Marci C

Comment by katmandu | 2008-07-24 19:24:11

Another Obama gaffe. From his speech:

Do you deny that walls have come down in Belfast?

We know that thanks to Bush there are now tens of thousands of walls in Iraq. Vote for MCcain and make sure those wall stay there.

Ferdberfle

You trolls should be forced to wear tinfoil hats so we can see you coming.

mahaska

they can’t find any to fit their little pinheads.

katmandu

So you’re admitting it was a gaffe based on lack of knowledge of a foreign situation?

But that’s what you get when you have people like Brzezinski on your staff.

Nope. Don’t want McCain either. Me wantum Hillary woman.

McCain is better on foreign policy, but otherwise a Neanderthal. But Obama is friends with people like Bernadine Dohrn, a moral monster, who thought the Manson killings were fun and games. (Dohrn and Ayers have never been thrown under the bus, which says to me they are important to Obama.) I’ll take my chances that the Demo Congress will rein in McCain.
s. hall

Marci — Vote for Obama who doesn’t even know where the walls are.
mahaska

Gee and remember the Belfast airlift?

Dawnelle

good

OBAMA FOR CHANCELLOR

TeaMug

ha ha..Obama could run in the German elections next year with Merkle. Oh, I just found this, which I never knew about:

++ Visit to US Military Bases Cancelled ++

1:42 p.m.: SPIEGEL ONLINE has learned that Obama has cancelled a planned short visit to the Rammstein and Landstuhl US military bases in the southwest German state of Rhineland-Palatinate. The visits were planned for Friday. “Barack Obama will not be coming to us,” a spokesperson for the US military hospital in Landstuhl announced. “I don’t know why.” Shortly before the same spokeswoman had announced a planned visit by Obama.

++ Bomb Threat Lifted at Hotel Adlon ++

1:24 p.m.: A bomb threat at the Hotel Adlon in Berlin where Barack Obama is staying is cleared. The suspicious package that had been discovered had been found to be “harmless,” a spokesperson said. The package had apparently just been books that had been mailed to the luxury hotel.

++ Merkel’s Spokesman Praises Talks ++

1:18 p.m.: The first-ever meeting between Illinois Senator Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel “was a very open and deep discussion in a very good atmosphere,” said German government spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm. The spokesman said the politicians had conducted detailed discussions about foreign policy issues as well as climate change and economic issues.

++ Bomb-Sniffing Dogs Deployed in Adlon ++

1:09 p.m.: The lobby of the Adlon Hotel where Obama is staying has been cleared following a bombscare. Explosives experts and bomb-sniffing dogs are investigating a package. A police spokesman said a taxi driver had delivered the package to the hotel.

++ Breaking News: Suspicious Package Found in Obama’s Hotel ++

1:03: Breaking news: A suspicious package has been found at the Hotel Adlon in Berlin where Barack Obama is staying.

Read the rest on the days ticker time line here.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,567821,00.html

TeaMug

How do you spell “cringe-making”? (Hint: It begins “Obama in Berlin”

As it happens, I tend to prefer my Europeans grumpy rather than elated. This is particularly true when the Europeans in question are German. An elated German, especially many elated Germans in one room together, makes me nervous. They hear someone promise, as Obama just promised in his Berlin speech, to “remake the world” and hearken after “our destiny” and their elation becomes a kind of fever. No wonder Obama has called for a “civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the United States military: following your destiny and remaking the world are projects likely to require a lot of help.

Read the rest:

Source:

http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/07/24/how-do-you-spell-cringe-making-hint-it-begins-obama-in-berlin/

Dawnelle

does that mean that he might not throw Germans under the bus with everyone else?

Hmm, wow, there’s hope for me after all.

pffffffffft – 9

OxyCon

“We are the Hasselhoffs we’ve been waiting for”.

katmandu

That’s really funny.

missE

Someone at Politico called him Obamahoff.

ObamaNOT

Bo should run a commercial with a light bulb over his head, because he has no ideas…..the DIMWT…..
Clinton Fan

Oh my word…that video was STUNNING in its….horrificness.

There are degrees of awful, and that video was in the upper echelons.

You should put a warning on that crap…especially when it is near the dinner hour!
katmandu

Ah, Obama fans, digest this. As you may know, Obama skipped visiting a military hospital today. But there’s more to the story:

. . . Landstuhl’s mission includes treating the wounded from the war:

The Landstuhl Regional Medical Center (LRMC) is an overseas military hospital operated by the U.S. Army and the Department of Defense. LRMC is the largest military hospital outside of the continental US. It is located near Landstuhl, Germany, and serves as the nearest treatment center for wounded soldiers coming from Iraq and Afghanistan. In addition, it serves military personnel stationed in Germany as well as their family members.

A large proportion of serious casualties from the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters are treated here, flown in via the Ramstein Air Base.

So Obama’s priorities look even more askew than first thought.

Update II: Well, this gets better. According to Jake Tapper, the problem wasn’t scheduling at all:

Obama noted that in a break from his whirlwind schedule, “we’ve got some down time tonight. What are you guys gonna do in Berlin? Huh? Huh? You guys got any big. plans? …I’ve never been to Berlin, so…I would love to tour around a little bit.”

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/24/competing-optics-cheering-germans-or-american-military/

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/07/obama-on-tonigh.html

s. hall

katmandu — Interesting and when you add that Max Cleland was disinvited from an Obama event. Maybe Obama doesn’t care for wounded vets. Just wondering…..

Mark L

Well, Merkel seems happy with him.
http://thepage.time.com/2008/07/23/merkel-obama-well-equipped-for-the-presidency/
http://puma caligirl

http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Summer08/BrazileRoveConnect.html
TeaMug

Here is Obama in a superman outfit:

“Come Back to Earth,” the German daily newspaper Die Tageszeitung demands

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-33622-3.html#backToArticle=567821
SaraSee

“A PALTRY 200,000″?

Yikes, whereas you may not be fans of Barack, you got to give it to him that he got more people to a single event than any other Presidential nominee or President in history!

I was stunned at the sight of that many people in attendance and I don’t think I could have ever coped with such a crowd. You know, they always say “picture the crowd naked” and that is supposed to help you through the speech, but that thought at this gathering would be scary!

Mr. X

Sorry, but 200,000 people is a joke. I live in buttfuck nowhere and concerts over here attract well over 60,000 people every time and that’s more people than almost any city in the area. I laugh at 200,000 people. For such worldwide publicity, it’s downright shameful.

SaraSee

Well Mr X, than you are unique in that. Whereas you may not think 200,000 is an amazing crowd, most others would hardly agree. It was a historic crowd for any political speaker and I have never heard of any concert getting that amount of humans in one place.

Heck, even the Beatles couldn’t get that kind of crowd…

Diana

Spain persons attracted more than a half million on the Berliners fan mile.

US president John F. Kennedy ahead: More than 300,000 persons heard am 1963 at the Schöneberger city hall its legendary words “I a Berliner”.

1994:50,000 Berliners received Bill Clinton at the Brandenburg Gate.

http://tinyurl.com/5and7g
https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/form.html?sc=1 Undercover Black Man

SaraSee, link your blog onto here, you can get at least 5 new views! Its so fun!!!

C.S.

I suggest you review some archival footage of some of JFK’s crowds. The one where he told an adoring crowd that he “was the man who accompanied Jackie” to France proves that there was pride in America long before Mrs. Obama decided we could now be proud. The Berliner speech drew quite a crowd, too. Those seem to have been the good old days, before we got stuck with a bunch of mediocre leaders like Bush and the threat of Obama.
Postmaster

he doesn’t need to picture the crowd naked, he just has to keep his eyes on the teleprompter and his ears to the headset. Any fool can do that as he has proven.

Diana

I DO NOT believe it was even close to 200,000 I saw the German’s version of the video and when they pan out everyone is shoved into this small space. I’d say maybe 10,000 if that.

Here’s one for Hillary and Us. Someone needs to make a Hillary video with this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1rcTIkeiBE

http://investigatebarackobama.wordpress.com/puma/ kat in your hat

I know, it doesn’t look like that many people to me…

AX10

However, David Hasselhoff has more acomplishments
than Barry does.
Linda C.

He got 200K or 10 K or a million…He gave his traditional we are the ones we have been waiting for to hope change and reshape the world under my bright “supervision”. Details and plans are pending the right pandering moment subject to change with according to the next pandering moment.
Obama is a bum

The Germans know nothing about Obama. The only reason they showed up is because the Obama zombies in US show up in big numbers.
http://NeedtoKnow need to know

We only have Obama’s word for it about graduating magna cum laude. Some anonymous person who attended college with Obama said on a blog that Obama got a “D” average. Obama is a proven liar, so personally I’d rather believe “anonymous”.
vi

Well as an American , I did not pay attention, to the fake interviews or the German people but I did hear that even the German people did not leave with an aw of him, I honestly was paying attention to all the scandle that popped up while he was away. Dems Gas free tax in Colorado, I suppose the American people did not deserve one?, the embarassment of a man who did not find time to visit the wounded troops, but had time for a speech in front of Germans, Wexler who lives with his mother in law in Florida, whose a senator who lives in home in Maryland i suppose. Will Obama now buy him a house since he doesnt live in Florida, and hes up for re election. And the news that he will visit wounded captives in guatamino. mmm I suppose they are worthy of a handshake and a pat on the back…oh and by the way I enjoyed the new polls that most Americans still say the visit overseas did not matter he is still , has no experience . Ah and last that Mccain is coming up in the polls, and the race is even tighter, you see pretty speeches are not enough if you have no integrity to keep your word, and your record on voting on real issues that matter suck.. You guys better start worrying. :} NOBAMA
HillGirl

I am shocked. Shocked that Obama didn’t give his speech in German. What languages does he speak again?
DancingOpossum

he got more people to a single event than any other Presidential nominee or President in history!

Back this up, please. And say whether those people had hugely popular musical acts give a free concert to lure people in.

As another poster noted, Hillary drew 150K people in Scranton, no musical act necessary.

How many people do you think will show up for Bon Jovi’s free concert in Central Park? Should Bon Jovi be POTUS? (Actually, he’d be far preferable to Obambi.)
http://FRIPRO Tom Fairbairn

I am very disturbed that Obama has become a Rock star due to our American Media, that is owned by a few rich people who want to make him president so they can control him’

THE WAY THEY (THE media and the Democratic party loosers TREATED HILLARY WHO IN MY OPINION HAS BEEN TRAINNED BY EXPERIENCE TO BE PRESIDENT is not my kind of party even though I have always voted Democratic.

If Obama would get off his rock star status and get smart he would choose HILLARY FOR HIS VP

If he does not choose her, the republicans will tear him to shreads. AN I WILL VOTE INDEPENDENT OR WRITE HER NAME IN.
Hope Floats

So who opened for Obama this time? It was the Decembrists in Oregon.
HRocks

Francis and Daniel, you both obviously missed the comment from the Obama spokesman when they said that Obama expects 1 million to attend his Germany speech. That’s why the 200,000 is a “paltry” number.
HARP

All of which can`t vote.
alexei

There were bands (free music) today in Berlin and in Oregon on a beautiful Sunday on the waterfront. The crowds came for the music not for Obama (well, some came for Obama too, but not that many).
beverly leslie

Two german bands played before oblowme, so don’t think those people came for your personal jesus.
Seattle Moss

Francis
I think you need to look at the quality of the people at those rallies for Obama.
Most of them are rabid ant-Americans who wish US defeat in Iraq and the world.
They don’t realize that it is the United States along with her allies who protect the western worlds vital resources and protects the world from terrorism.

Obama can’t run and hide anymore.
Obama wishes American defeat in Iraq.

Obama has been disrespectful to our troops
By not standing and clapping at the state of the union like any good patriot the success of the surge.

Now Obama says the troops only contributed to stopping sectarian war.

What is it with you Obamabots???
Who side are you on??

This is America!
You obamabots failed to realize the nationalist spirit of Americans against those who would wish our defeat.
Ferdberfle

Obama, the rock star, drawing 200,00 German bots makes him qualified to be President of the US. What sort of dope are you on, dope?
katmandu

Hillary drew a crowd of 150,000 in Scranton Pa. when she marched in the St. Pat’s Day Parade. At least that was the estimate of the local paper, which endorsed Obama. (It was clear from the hype that led up to the event that Hillary was the reason for the crowd.) Berlin has a population of 3.4 million, slightly larger than Scranton.
http://home.comcast.net/~vincep312 VinceP1974

Uh hello.. It’s Europe.. They love to have these mass rallies.

200,000 sounds like low turn out to me.
s. hall

Francis — Does it really matter when the guy won’t debate John McCain? Same hopey/changey speech by a guy who’s clueless. Obama is addicted to Fame.
Mary Kay

Just because someone can draw a crowd doesn’t mean that person has the capacity to lead a nation. Britney Spears used to sell out her concerts. Should she be POTUS?
justme

take away the band, beer and food he’d a been talking to himself

LOL
elizabeth

there is NONE. McCain did graduate though, at the very bottom of his class. Obama graduated from harvard law magna cum laude. Hillary failed the DC bar exam.

takes all kinds, doesn’t it?? what predicts success?
s. hall

Now Now Francis — Don’t get your knickers in a twist. Mr. Obama seems to stonewall everytime anyone wants to know anything about him. What does his thesis say that Obama refuses to release it. Kind of like his Birth Certificate and his State Senate records. He sure isn’t shy about getting his face in front of the camera though or making speeches. He looooooves to talk just not in a debate format. I guess he is afraid of the competition — ya think?
Leisa

McCain never claimed to be brilliant… We are “hoping” to find one shred of evidence that Obama is somewhat smarter than his education pedigree cover claims to be…

Bush proved beyond a doubt that the Ivies do not a competent POTUS make.
KJMontana

What’s the difference between Barack Obama and Jesus?

Jesus has a sense of humor.
Patti

I do.
alexei

What did he do in Columbia – he won’t release his records.
HRocks

Elizabeth – You don’t know for sure that Obama graduated with magna cum laude, he won’t release his records from Harvard. Have you actually verified this and if so, how?

Also, where did you get the information about Hillary failing the DC bar?

It’s my understanding that Obama provided false information on his IL Bar application. He answered that he never used drugs, which is contradicted in his book and that he had no tickets but he had over 200.00 worth of tickets that took him 10 years to pay. Finally after being exposed in the Chicago Tribune, he paid them.
countryfirst

yeah and obama lied on his bar application about drug use, dumb ass troll…
HRocks

Elizabeth – Since the Naval Academy is a military school, the class rank is giving for what type of military positions (job) you will get in the military. Being 1st or Last in a military academy doesn’t have the same meaning as it does in a civilian university. Your ranking at a military academy includes many things besides grades, you can be an all A student and rank in the 50 percentile because you spent all the time studying and not doing other non-academic things that’s included in the overall rank.
Mary Kay

A good PR marketing firm, in the case of Obama.
AliBabaLuvsObama

Obama will give the command: women must empower themselves by wearing hijab and obey their men.
Bell’Artista

why won’t little o release his medical records?
csuzeq

I bet Hillary could draw at least 500,000 if she gave a speech in Berlin. Something along the lines of Women’s rights are Human rights as in Bejing.

That is an awesome speech. I wrote a report on it in college. http://www.americanrhetoric.com/ You can read the speech here.

Interestingly enough when I was studying, I had to choose a speech from the top 100 to write about. Now Obama is supposed to be such a great orator, but he has no speech in the top 100 and I have checked within the past couple months to see if that “incredible” 2004 convention speech rated. Nope, not there. What is notable though is that Hillary’s speech is in the top 100, and Bill has 2 speeches in the top 100 of all time!!!!!
mahaska

Sort of like his June money.
ellen

Please provide a quote that Obama’s people said to expect one million people….i know other cable outlets and blogs said one million, but I don’t believe that it was his campaign that put that out there…prove me wrong.
jus messin wit you man

Let me preface this with the statement that I am a huge Hillary fan – stood in the pouring rain in McKeesport, PA for an hour, waiting to see and hear her speak live on the Saturday before the PA primary. I even changed my voter registration from Independent to Democrat at the last minute, so I could vote for HRC in the PA primary.

In his book “A Woman in Charge,” by Pulitzer Prize winning author Carl Bernstein, Mr. Bernstein covers the topic of Hillary not passing the DC bar. I read this book earlier this year and found it to be very informative and mostly flattering to Senator Clinton. I have a much greater understanding of and appreciation for HRC after having read this book.
http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

Yah. A “paltry” $52 million.
HRocks

Thanks,I checked with my nephew the lawyer, he says that it’s normal not to pass the BAR the first time around. JFK jr passed on his 4th try.
jus messin wit you man

Okay. I wanted to make sure that you knew that I wasn’t a troll, regarding that info.
C.S.

Ahhh, the beauty of a Legacy education; no matter how dumb you are you still get accepted to Daddy’s alma mater and Obama’s daddy was a Harvard grad, too.

And about that law school thing, does anyone know if Obama made it on his first try or is that another missing piece of his papertrail?
bemused

Actually I think we’re starting to wonder how anyone who can’t keep his office clean could manage to have so little evidence of his life around after 47 years. He is not a kid! I know by his age I had had about as much time in college, and a lot more work history, and had generated file cabinets of papers and transcripts and whatnot. And, I was proud of those evidences of accomplishment, and every other grad student I knew was too, and kept every scrap. Because when you get to that level of education, you are in a competitive environment where everything you can pack in a c.v. is gold. The only people who don’t have a pile like that either were wiped out in a natural disaster or were hiding something that others wouldn’t approve of.
http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com Undercover Black Man

Guess how many Berliners showed up for President Bill Clinton’s speech at the Brandenburg Gate in 1994?

According to the New York Times… 50,000.

womp womp

If 200,000 is “paltry,” what do you call one-fourth of that?

Please give Sen. Obama some credit for being an attractive figure on the world stage… and for running a skillful campaign.
alibe4Hillary

McCain graduated lower in his class because he had demerits for being a maverick and not doing well under authority….not because he is stupid.
maniaco

$7/HR TROLL “UnderCoverBlackMan”:

Doncha love what Don Imus said:
“Barack Obama is a bigger pussy than Hillary . . .”

nice ta see ya again
C.S.

They showed up to see what all the hype was about.
Bread and circuses, you know.
https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/form.html?sc=1 Undercover Black Man

Know why I really write on here? Because I want people to goto my blog. Its lame, but its the truth…
moi61537

I do give him credit for that. His speeches are well put together and very well delivered. I have concerns about the Chicago political machine, not taking public funding, inexperience and not putting in the time as legislator and some associations with folks like Ayers. I kind of have a hard time w/ the pledge of allegiance photo from Iowa. Friends of mine from Cameroon left Paris after years of discrimination and came to America to become lawyers. Only here were laws to address bigotry and only here would hard work lead to advancement. America makes terrible mistakes (slavery, indentured servitude, internments, genocide against the Indians) but their are internal mechanisms for correction. The ideals of the Enlightenment and America are something I would put my hand over my heart for. Sure wish Mr. O. would too.
ellen

what an ignorant comment…i don’t think anyone is saying that just because he draws a crowd he should be president. what a stupid comparison….you should be embarrassed.
Liam

Now Obama is supposed to be such a great orator, but he has no speech in the top 100

The Top 100 speeches only goes up to 1999, so of course his convention speech isn’t. Check out the list by decade:

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/top100speechesbydecade.html

It is however the Speech of the Week this week on the front page.
permad

I think that some (particularly his campaign) are saying exactly that: “Look at the crowds! He appeals to everyone!” Perhaps not in your mind, but why else would it matter if 200,000 or 1,000,000 or 10 people came out to see him? There seems to be some promotion from his campaign about his ability to draw crowds. Why else would the convention have to change venues? If this is not intended to imply crowds=appeal/competence/readiness, what is the intended message? Enlighten us, please!

Train wrecks and other disasters also often attract large crowds, mind you. It ain’t always becuase of love people are drawn in. The poster you replied to has nothing to be embarrassed about.
Postmaster

Affirmative Action comes to mind.