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One-World Unsaved

By John Batchelor on December 18, 2009 at 12:45 AM in Current Affairs

* Bumped up *


No Verification.

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Speaking Wednesday 15 [on my syndicated radio show] with John Bolton, AEI; Coral Davenport, CQ; and Bob Zimmerman, re the UN Climate Change summit that has already plunged over the cliff into Babel and blame.

Bolton’s remarks describe a UN World that believes only in one-world governance, describe a posse of developing nations called the G-77-China as the same old genius Third World potentates (rare to find anything but a kleptocracy in the lot) that has seized global warming as a new wedge issue to separate billions from the developed states of the G-8/G-20.

Once it was World Revolution (See Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc). Then it was Ban the Bomb (with a fab movie, Gregory Peck and Ava Gardner in Nevil Shute’s story, “On the Beach.”) Now it is Global Warming.

John Bolton argues that the utopian-minded leadership of the G-20, led by POTUS Obama, aim to present a best case scenario for applause to the NGOs and G-77-China present, but that very little else will come of the two-week confab. The participants will agree to agree at a later date and then agree to meet again, hailing the result of no treaty as a success because they will continue to talk about a one-world treaty.

POTUS Obama and PM Brown and other G-8 officials will enjoy the glow of no change.

What is to be Done?

Coral Davenport tells that the new turmoil at the meeting is beyond the old arguments of emission targets by 2050, of how much money to be transferred from the rich democracies to the poor kleptocracies, how much the UN will supervise the new Kyoto/Bali treaty with a new Adapation Board.

The new turmoil is that the G-77-China states refuse any verification protocol. The idea of inspectors to verify that states are in compliance with emission targets and climate friendly practicies is regarded by China and its cronies as a threat to sovereignty. Correct. China is now talking about sovereignty.

John Bolton remarks that during the Cold War, the necessity of inspection was the first line of discussion. Without inspections and verification, there could be no START, no ABM, no Test-Ban treaties. There would be no Non-Proliferation Treaty supervised by the IAEA. To go forward with a treaty that does not permit inspections is to entertain farce.

Ed Milliband of the UK has stated that there is no transparency in China. Coral Davenport tells me that Milliband is not withdrawing his remark. The utopian minded world leaders will arrive into an arena of ill-feeling and manufactured contretemps.

Al Gore.

Bob Zimmerman will discuss the peculiar assertion by Al Gore that the North Pole ice cap will vanish in five years — an example of the preposterous claims of the warmists now that the Climategate revelations have wrecked the “settled science” fable.

Coral Davenport reports that the Al Gore remarks at the summit have no purchase and are ignored by the swarming disputers.

Also, Ban Ki-Moon’s anxious remarks that the “posturing” must be set aside that the members must “seal the deal” — any deal, even for a deal to agree that the next time there will be a deal. It seems safe to suppose that the North Pole is safe for at least another two years until the next one-world crisis management team meets to correct the planet’s temperature.

Puzzle for the future: what is the correct temperature? “There’s still time, brother!”

__________________________________________

From the blog for my syndicated radio show.

  • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

    I remember seeing “On The Beach” when it came out and the sense of doom and fear it left with just about everyone I knew…first though there was the huddling under our wooden desks in school to save us from impending nuclear attack from the Rooosians and so it goes. It seems they just get more sophisticated in the tactics…like 0zer0 today saying if we don’t spend ourselves into bankruptcy pass health care, the USA will be over.

    I do my part whether there’s any meltin’ goin’ on or not. I don’t kid myself about their shameless manipulations though. I’d feel much better if Algore (as he’s called on The Laptop of The United States) would downsize that humoungous house and give up the private jets though…he doesn’t personally seem worried enough to change his habits…just the rest of us should worry.

    • Pennsylvania Caucasian

      Yes just the rest of us should worry, the little people who don’t know what’s best for us.

      We need the poster boy for Conspicuous Consumption to learn us. And his daddy’s a senator even!

  • josh nussbaum

    I’m devastated by the criticism of leaders who care for our nation and the world. Leaders like Al Gore, Barack Obama, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro and Bono are people who dedicate their lives to making the conditions of the poor and disenfranchised better. Al Gore has been fighting for world climate relentlessly, Barack Obama has finally turned the US into an egalitarian democracy and has improved the economy, and helped the millions who die every year from starvation in the US. Hugo Chavez has lifted the common Venezuelan man out of despair by putting the government in control of banks, newspapers, and everything else and Fidel Castro has established better hospitals in Cuba than we Americans can only dream of. And Bono just cares about everything. Even the Pope (excuse me for the informal language) has him on speed-dial. Enough mocking and criticizing these people. They all make the world a better place. I wish many of the capitalist pigs in the US would do an ounce of that. We should be thankful to Gore, Obama, Chavez, Castro, Bono et al for their selfless work and vision and love.

    • hokma

      I assume you meant that as satire.

    • maury kornbluth

      To the above commenter Mr.Nussbaum – I was in agreement with you until you mentioned the Pope. The Pope is not relevant to this issue because of his typical Christian fanatic “anti-woman” policies: there is a clear need to limit births and to step up with abortions in order to cut down on CO2 emissions. The Pope is opposed to that, so the Pope is no friend of anyone. I do however agree that Cuba and Venezuela’s progressive leadership has put them in an excellent position. I don’t see anyone hurting because of a “financial meltdown” in Cuba – and that is because the government takes care of everything and makes sure everyone gets an equal share. This is why people in Cuba and Venezuela are better off, and kudos th their leaders Chavez and Castro for that.

      • Peggy Sue

        The haters are out in force, posing with Jewish names, too. How nice and festive.

        Unless, of course, this is snark. But frankly poor taste is poor taste.

        Take your Chavez and Castro love back to Venezuela and Cuba where it can be fully appreciated. Better yet? Crawl in a hole!

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      Eh…do you know where you are? You seem to be lost.

  • Dan Moss

    I believe the best thing Obama can do is put his wife, the luxurious and luminous Michelle in charge: she would be the best Global Warming Czarina ever. I also believe that Sasha and Malia should be appointed as Global Warming Ambassadors and tour schools and countries, giving a child’s perspective on the issue – the clock is ticking on the Global Warming Bomb and we might leave nothing but melted water, ashes and destruction to our children. Is that what we want to do? So get these three wonderful women the baton of leadership and educate the world by appealing to the heart and hopes of the citizens of the world. We are running out of time: California might be on track to turn into a desert in less than 6 years. We cannot let that happen.

    • lawnmower

      snark?

      you’re joking right?

      i thought so.

      phew.

      • Docelder

        Nah, somebody thought it would be cute to leave a couple of floaters. Simple pleasures for simple minds I guess.

      • monty fabrizio

        - Michelle Obama *is* one of the most smart women in America. Her IQ is over 250.
        - Sasha and Malia are magnificent children imbued with the spark of wisdom and greatness. Theirs is the destiny to rule and lead. If only we had a monarchy they could rule after their Mom and amazing Dad retired.
        - The world *is* being destroyed.
        - The heart and hopes of the world *is* the greatest energy we can tap into.
        - California *is* turning into a desert because of evaporating water.

        For you to question these facts is really immature. Facts are facts. Obviously you are a global warming denier with ties to some corrupt corporation or your loved ones profit from the clandestine activities of the military-industrial complex. It is time to put people who care about this earth in charge.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          HAHAHAHAHA! Now I know you’re not for real.

  • Docelder

    emission targets by 2050

    Seriously, if the North pole was going to melt in five years, what good would emission targets by 2050 do? That isn’t even a good cover for the hyperbole. But, this is the pattern of the loony far left. When all is lost, create a crisis. So, Mr. Flatulence himself pulls five years out of his backside… oops, it didn’t work. That this has been one of the coldest winters in a long time, and that the attendees nearly froze waiting in line to get into the meetings can mean only one thing… GOD surely must have a dandy sense of humor. But the methodology of the far loony left is unchanged still. When all else fails, there is crisis… the next time they meet, it will be about the oceans and not the temperature. Acid oceans… we could be cold or hot that year and only ocean scientists will know the truth about the PH of the water. And, the best part is the carbon is still marketable. Be ready for the switch.

    • Suzanne Goldstein

      Mr/Ms. Docelder -
      I am tired of references to the “Loonie Left” – I happen to be a proud left wing progressive American, a member of the American Communist party, an avowed socialist, and following my father Rabbi Avigdor Goldstein’s steps, a yearly donor to NPR and PBS. Let me tell you about the “Loonie Left”: we got rid of slavery (which was a Christian invention), we won the civil war and put the money (that was spent on giving guns to militaristic fascists) into better causes such as curing polio, we invented pasteurization, and as we speak we are battling to get equal rights for gays and muslim freedom fighters in the US. What you call the Loonie Left is what makes this country great: people like Jimmy Carter, Gewn Ifill, Oliver Stone, and Big Bird. We give the US its freedom and beauty. What did you give? Bloodshed, capitalism, and Sean Hannity, a man so backward he does not understand abortion and gay marriage are a civil right. It is our civil right to fight for every right we can get. That is what we have given the world: the right to have rights. Without what you call the Loonie Left you wouldn’t be able to breathe right now, because you wouldn’t have a right to do so.

      • Docelder

        What I refer to as “loony” are the people who believe that animals and humans have equal rights to this planet. Also loony to me are the hard line greenies that want to de-industrialize the world, and the folks who discuss ways to depopulate the world, or the people who connive ways to make middle class people not be able to afford to use resources. Any political inclinations aside… each of these are just evil. I have nothing against communists, and I don’t feel we have the moral mandate to spread capitalism to them. At the same time, I don’t appreciate communists trying to alter America. There are plenty of places for communists to live in this world. This isn’t the best place for them to live, I don’t apologize for that. I also think Hannity and OReilly are full of themselves, but that is just me. But lastly, I think you are off base talking fondly about communism and at the same time disparagingly about fascists. If one were to travel from here to China… you would eventually get there whether you went either right or left, provided you went far enough either way. Both the hard right and the hard left are paths to Fascism.

        • Pennsylvania Caucasian

          Both the hard right and the hard left are paths to Fascism.

          Such a simple concept, so hard (for some) to comprehend.

          • Ginger Snaps Back

            You tell them, Docelder. Next we will have sympathy parties and “sensitivity training” seminars for communists.

            Last I checked, communism was a failed experiment in most countries that attempted it. There is also the inconvenient truth that communists murdered more people in the 20th century than the Nazis and the Fascists combined.

          • Ferd Berfle

            You are indeed correct. Those who cannot find a grain of truth in what the other side is arguing for are invincibly ignorant and are part of the problem and never part of the solution.

            As a real scientist and not some bureaucrat or corporate shill with an axe to grind, I am neither convinced there is climate change on the scale being foisted by the one side nor convinced there isn’t. There simply isn’t enough data with the requisite evidentiary credentials to form a conclusion.

            What this means, in essence, is that both pollitical sides of this issue are arguing from a point of weakness resting on a foundation of a priori dogma. The very fact that non-scientists are making the decisions borders on the insane. Since this is such a scenario with the hard sciences, let’s by all means do the same with medicine, engineering, and physics. It all amounts to the same thing–know-nothings making absurd claims and decisions based upon data which they cannot fathom and cannot place in any sort of relevant context.

            The public is certainly entitled to their opinion–but not as subject matter experts unless they are qualified by education and experience to form such an opinion.

            Sorry to burst the left- and right-wing bubbles, but the “jury” really IS still out”.

      • Onofre’s arm

        “Loonie [sic] left”? I think for Suzanne Goldstein, Mary Kornbluth, and Josh Nussbaum, “Criminally insane left” would be more accurate.

        Has there been a major release of inmates from an asylum that I haven’t heard about?

        • Onofre’s arm

          Now I have to add Monty Fabrizio to the list. WTF? Is it April 1st?

      • Onofre’s arm

        Slavery a Christian invention? You’re quite the historian SG. I guess the folks who built the pyramids around 2500 BC (the BC stands for BEFORE CHRIST) were just independent contractors.

        I was beginning to have some hope for this country with the apparent general epiphany regarding Obama’s incompetence and outright treachery, but some of the posts on this thread today are quite disturbing. If there are enough whackos like Nussbaum, Goldstein, Kornbluth, and Fabrizio in this country, (one is too many) then we’re screwed.

        • Docelder

          If anybody is interested you can still buy slaves in Africa today. I wish some of these do gooders would buy an indentured family, teach them to feed themselves and set them free. It would make more sense if the intent is to help the world in any significant way.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          OA, I think this was Suzie’s planned swarm…or all Suzie. Not a coincidence. Pretty silly and makes me sad because even when I was a Viet Nam protester, and what was considered leftist at the time, I never hated my country. In fact, our brand of leftist liberalism considered protest to be the highest form of patriotism. We wanted to make our country better and certainly didn’t hate it. I would say that many of the older Tea Party protesters feel the same way today…and I’m not surprised when I find that they too protested in the 60′s. I do get fighting mad when someone wants a communist take over the USA.

          Wonder if Suzie wears a burqua? With a name like Goldstein (if that is her/his name) not a swift decision to support Arabs. Wouldn’t matter to me but a burqua might save her head with the A-rabs.

          • Suzanne Goldstein

            How dare you drag my religion into this as if if I’m Jewish I can’t want peace with Islamic people!
            First off, I buy my groceries from a Muslim man. Second: my opinions and letters have been published in Tikkun magazine over and over again. Three: I am a progressive, which is quite literally the highest level one can reach in the human pyramid. You on the other hand probably serve pancakes at a diner and your baby’s father and your dad are the same man. Four: my son has a Palestinian boyfriend who beats my son raw, but I told him, Simon you either learn to accept Farouq or I will deny you. Five: I am willing to go to any length to make peace with Islamic people. Islam is like Buddhism, a religion of peace and a thousand enchantments and veils, tall minarets and perfumed oils, and only ignorant waitresses like you see them like Bush-loving Jesus-freaks see them, as “the enemy”. Islam exists outside your puny mind.
            The same goes for large scale issues of world importance such as global warming. I’m NOT going to have my Florida condo go underwater just because you don’t get the fact that the ice cap will disappear by 2018, and the water-level will climb to 830-870 feet, washing Florida away in one tsunami, and then the water will evaporate and it will all turn into Death Valley.
            Al Gore is ringing our doorbell, and telling us the world is sick and needs a cure. I will open my door to listen. And however much money people need to be taxed until man can control the weather, that is how much money needs to be collected, and handed to Al Gore and to whoever is involved in taking care of and resolving global warming.
            Now go and put on your apron and bring me some pie. And I will not leave you a tip.

            • Docelder

              You don’t see any dissonance in these three quotes from yourself?

              I am a progressive, which is quite literally the highest level one can reach in the human pyramid

              Islam is like Buddhism, a religion of peace and a thousand enchantments

              Bush-loving Jesus-freaks

              Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism are all wonderful, but Christians are Jesus freaks? This from somebody who is at the highest level of the human pyramid? Maybe that “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” part is what makes them freaks to begin with?

              Anyway, there isn’t enough water on the planet to raise the ocean 870 feet in Florida or anywhere else. People are talking 20 feet in 100 years, but even that is just theory. Maybe before 100 years comes we might can control weather. I wouldn’t bet against it.

            • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

              You need to read more Chopra and become more loving now that you’ve “reached the highest level in the human pyramid”.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        Are always so delusional? You sound like the same poster with different names…perhaps your multiple personalities are getting mixed up along with your twisted knickers?

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        we got rid of slavery (which was a Christian invention)

        I didn’t know Obama’s ancestors were Christian…you do know they were African slave traders, yes? I thought they were Muslim traders.

        You also sound impossibly immature…but then I was too as a 25 y/o leftist. Fortunately, I matured, grew up and learned to think.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        Without what you call the Loonie Left you wouldn’t be able to breathe right now, because you wouldn’t have a right to do so.

        It’s hard to believe anyone could think with such ignorance. You are one miserable, unhappy bot.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        Jimmy Carter, Gewn Ifill, Oliver Stone, and Big Bird

        OK, not loony…just plain nuts. Big Bird was the clue. Or…maybe you and your pals just dropped by to defecate on the thread and go back to your hate site. Whatever…tootles.

        • Suzanne Goldstein

          It’s the ignorant Christian waitress with the inbred son. OK, let me explain:
          - Jimmy Carter: builds homes for the poor, writes poetry, exposes the crimes of the murderous Zionists against the defenseless Palestinians.
          - Gwen Ifill: the most respected journalist in America after Keith Olbermann, is black, in a wheelchair.
          - Oliver Stone: the most truthful Hollywood director who has exposed more conspiracies than any other investigative team in the world, friends with one of the most benevolent leaders in the world, Fidel Castro.
          - Big Bird: has been teaching our children to read for 50 years, but of course not your son, the inbred who most likely prays to Jesus.
          These four are unshakeable icons of the true American way that we must all follow. Do yourself a favor and read “The People’s History of the United States” by Howard Zinn. Maybe you’ll learn something.

          • Diana L. C.

            Again, read my post about Jesus (the Christ’s) comments about slavery. Not all Christians are inbred. Just as not all Jewish people are perfect. I was raised in a very Christian extended family. We are good people, charitable people, hard-working people. My memories of my upbringing centered around church are beautiful memories. We were not taught to hate or to label others as “inbred” or evil.

            As for Big Bird teaching reading. As a retired reading and English teacher, let me tell you my opinion about Big Bird’s (and Sesame Street’s) way of teaching reading. Since that show, may children can indeed read by sounding out words. But the show’s format of quick sound bites and facile lessons have contributed a lot to the fact that on reading tests it’s comprehension of what they’ve read that students fail the most on. Sound out the words, yes; understand the words, no. The Sesame Street generation cannot sit still long enough for anything but quick sound bites. Give them a compound, complex sentence and their eyes glaze over.

            I do have to agree, your mention of Big Bird gave you away as a mental light weight, despite who agrees to publish your rantings.

            • andrew

              An here I was thinking Big Bird would be a possible third party leader everyone could come together behind…

          • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

            Clean up on aisle 5!

          • KR

            -” Big Bird: has been teaching our children to read for 50 years, but of course not your son, the inbred who most likely prays to Jesus.”

            Sesame Street has only been around since 1969.
            And your negative comments on Christianity only confirm your own ugly ignorance.

      • Diana L. C.

        I will point out that slavery existed in the ancient world before Christianity. Just sayin…

        And the Christ’s message about the state of slavery is far from the idea that people are right to hold others as if they were possessions:

        “If you want to be great, you must be the servant of all the others. And if you want to be first, you must be the slave of the rest. The Son of Man did not come to be a slave master, but a slave who will give his life to rescue many people.” (Matthew 20:26-28, CEV)

        I am not an anti-Semite, a hater of all things Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or any other belief system. Please quit showing disrespect for Christianity because it’s the “cool” thing to do.

  • Suzanne Goldstein

    Since this article gives credence to John Bolton by quoting him I have to seriously reconsider the validity of the comments. The facts are that time and time again John Bolton pushed decisions through the UN that devastated millions of African women and children, left them without food, medication and help. John Bolton should be brought to trial and justice in the Belgian world court for crimes against humanity. They should prove once and for all that he is a war criminal who supports criminal regimes (example: I$rael and Australia), and most likely is to blame for the genocide in Darfur.

    • mountainaires

      Are you Suzanne Goldstein the journalist? If so, I’m glad you’re here! :-) I applaud your work immensely.

      • Suzanne Goldstein

        Thank you for the shout-out brave sister! No, I’m just Suzanne Goldstein blogger, community activist, woman of justice, and supporter of humanistic progressive causes where we take from the rich and give to the poor.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          And, very, very immature. Now that you’ve squatted and left your droppings, you can go spew some other place. I don’t think you have much of an appreciative audience here.

          • Docelder

            We are talking about somebody who just equated her politics with those of Robin Hood. But, what is better? Take from the rich and give to the poor? Or, teach the poor what the rich know that they never learned? The world is an abundant place, and there is plenty for everybody. Rich people do not cause poor people. Yes we need rules and a level playing field for everybody… but Robin Hood we don’t need. Somali pirates we don’t need. New democrats we don’t need.

        • http://www.lesstalkmoreactivism.blogspot.com whoframedrudy

          Oh you were serious. I wasn’t sure. In that case, you left out the Stalinist purges, the Gulag Archipelago, The Reign of Terror and the Killing Fields.

          Oh, and the National Socialist German Workers Party.

          I think the far left would do best to stick with resistance to power. When the Far Left tries to get power, it becomes vicious in the extreme — and because it has no checks and balances, the results are ghastly.

          Do you believe in separation of powers? Try thinking of capitalism as another form of separation of powers. Capitalism limits govt power. Without limits, the state becomes a monster. The historical evidence of that is overwhelming.

          That’s why I hate communism — it masquerades as idealism until it gets power. Then out comes the guillotine — the repression, the purges, the camps, the mass murder.

          But I don’t include Al Gore or Jimmy Carter in the Loonie Left. Daily Kos is the Loonie Left.

        • Peggy Sue

          “where we take from the rich and give to the poor.”

          That would be Robin Hood, woman of justice [hahaha].

          You need a new schtick. Happy holidays.

    • mountainaires

      Amen to that. Same with Bush and Cheney, Feith, and Wolfowitz, Addington and Libby.

  • Peggy Sue

    “seal the deal” — any deal, even for a deal to agree that the next time there will be a deal.”

    Hahahaha.

    Is Ban Ki-Moon an Obama clone?

    I understand the conference is so far behind in the smallest preliminary agreements [beyond saving the world's rainforests, an admirable goal in my mind] that all those air flights by the world’s super-duper powers [and wanna-be powers] will be a totally wasted effort because there’s nothing to read or consider, let alone sign.

    There is a Santa Claus!

    What a farce. And I know people are probably tired of me dropping his name, but this is exactly what Bjorn Lomborg predicted. Basically, nada.

  • William L. Donlon

    Olbermann just joined Dean on “Obamacare”.

    Olbermann’s Pledge: I’ll Go To Jail Before Buying ObamaCare Insurance
    By Mark Finkelstein | December 16, 2009 – 22:24

    Maybe Leavenworth has a TV studio Keith could use . . .

    On tonight’s Countdown, Olbermann vowed to break the law and go to jail if ObamaCare requires him to buy private-sector health care insurance. Keith made his macho boast in the course of his melodramatic Special Comment this evening.

    KEITH OLBERMANN: Health care reform that benefits the industry at the cost of the people is intolerable and there are no moral constructs in which it can be supported. And if still the bill, and this heinous mandate become law, there is yet further reaction required. I call on all those whose conscience urges them to fight to use the only weapon that will left to us if this bill as currently constituted becomes law. We must not buy federally-mandated insurance, if this cheesy counterfeit of reform is all we can buy. No single payer? No sale. No public option? No sale. No Medicare buy-in? No sale.

    I am one of the self-insured, albeit by choice. And I hereby pledge that I will not buy this perversion of health-care reform. Pass this at your peril, senators. And sign it at yours, Mr. President. I will not buy this insurance. Brand me a law-breaker if you choose. Fine me if you will. Jail me if you must.

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      Oh, how I love it when Herr Olbermann gets on his self-righteous, sanctimonious high horse! Like the kids say, Sweet.

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  • getfitnow

    I respect the earth. I don’t WORSHIP it!

  • elaine

    This is a difficult issue for me. World wide 6.8 Billion people & rapidly increasing, massive clear cutting, 27 Billion tons of CO2 a yr, etc. Despite all that I don’t want the U.S. to loose sovereignty through treaty or in any other manner. No to punitive solutions, Yes to incentives for solutions. I’ve read that Thorium is safer than Uranium for fueling power plants, that spray-on solar panels are being developed, lots of interesting solutions in the pipeline…maybe the developed nations should negotiate assistance to 3rd world counties contingent on meaningful population controls being implemented. These issues are so big/complicated I don’t have the answers…I do know if people run out of water ( like glaciers melting in Bolivia) entire populations will mass migrate, whether the lack of water is caused by “natural cycles” or pollution becomes secondary. I just don’t want them all moving here. Self interest suggests digging wells in some undeveloped countries asap makes sense.

    • prof. tom wilkins

      While Bu$h and friends were destroying Iraq and sinking the American economy in the gutter, here are a few of the problems that were taking shape around the world:
      - Global evaporation: the loss of water due to global warming. The US is already diverting large amounts of water from South America to the US soil to water our crops.
      - Global hunger: over 162 billion people are to start starving before 2014 – in Africa, South America, and Palestine.
      - Global deforestation: the CIA has helped establish Capitalist (read: environment hating) governments around the world, which in turn are destroying millions of acres of forests to make room for and build McDonalds. This will destroy the oxygen supplies.
      - Global ozone depletion: the ozone layer will lose 18% of it’s thickness by 2024 allowing the sun’s gamma rays cause massive death by radiation. The depletion of the Ozone is being caused by the designer bombs that US soldiers are lobbing on Afghanistan and the large-scale medical experiments that the Israelis are conducting on the unsuspecting Palestinian population.
      - Global oxygen loss: due to the raising levels of CO2 our atmosphere will be 48% CO2 by 2032 which means – only rich people will be able to breathe. See above.
      - Global ph-level imbalance: due to the toxic poisons that Dick Cheney and his friends around the world are dumping in the gutters and rivers, the ph-balance will offset itself by 1.7138 by 2015 which will cause massive problems to plants and human beings.
      - Global population explosion: instead of learning from China and managing population growth wisely by culling female babies, the US is allowing an unchecked amount of births. By 2028 the US will not be able to feed its children and will resort to attacking Africa to take food away from their children.

      These are some of the problems we are facing in the short and mid-range future. Things are bad, there is a lot to fix, and the only thing working for us is President Barack who will fix these things if given the chance. If the Rethuglicans would just sign the medical insurance bill and the global warming bill, President Barack could focus on the other problems and fix them. Is that too much to hope?

      • Donna Brazile

        Tell me where you supposedly teach so I can AVOID it like the plague!

        Stop the lecturefest!

  • I’m a Linda too

    Call me silly, but I don’t think anyone should be allowed to talk about this issue if they don’t have an understanding of this issue!

    It is not just the cost of energy for us going up, it is the cost of e v e r y t h i n g because all goods are being made elsewhere and the cost for them to produce it (energy) and the cost of shipping it (energy). That’s why we saw such a rise in goods, fewer, if any, including produce, being made in our own country (what is that holier than thou claim of sustainability?) and all has to be shipped in…oh and there is that entire homeland security thing of being gouged…because of supply and demand…and the demand that we don’t make it and THEY do.

    Last night TruTV had on their new show with Jesse Ventura “Conspiracy Theory” about climate change scam/gate. It was very good. Tried going to their site to see if they posted the video, but they did not. Just a teaser. Rec’d. How this whole things was started, by who and the interests they have.

    • Docelder

      In the end, if this carbon trading scheme passes not much will ever be made here again. Instead, the companies with the carbon credits will trade them to countries with the less stringent requirements and the lesser cost to produce. i.e. China and India right now. This is why they have that death grip on their lesser participation. It is a competitive advantage on the top of the one they already have with cheap labor. The carbon advantage will take away the shipping cost disadvantage plus. Think about it, why produce the solar panels here either? If they would be more affordable to the world if China does it? Union people need to wake up. These “new” democrats are not their friends… just that right now the “enemy of my enemy” is pairing them together. Ultimately, the “new” democrats are more about draconian population remediation and the general de-industrialization of the world. Just think what would happen if greenpeace activists and animal rights proponents ran the world? Nothing would be off the table. Nothing is. Make no mistake, Al and Nancy plan on keeping their private jets… they do. But, they don’t plan on us taking summer vacations in a SUV or grilling hamburgers on the fourth , or tailgating before the game. None of that “bubba” stuff for us. No the fun things of life are for the elites of the world, while the rest of the planet is their global ant farm.

      • I’m a Linda too

        Well said.

  • Surfered

    The arguments against climate change appear to fall into 4 categories:
    1. Climate change is a hoax, part of a conspiracy of enterprising entrepenuers to make millions and scheming socialists to take away our freedoms.
    2. The earth is actually in a cooling trend.
    3. But if it is getting warmer, man had nothing to do with it.
    4. We’ve already waited too long to do anything about, so we’re doomed and it’s hopeless.

    Well, if it is a hoax it’s a very elaborate one. Somehow those pranksters were able to alter NASA satellite photos which reveal that both the fabled Northwest Passage and the Northeast Passage melted free in 2008 for the first time in recorded history. They melted free again in 2009.

    They also somehow tricked the World Meteorological Organization and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration thermometers to show that the decade ending 2009 will be the warmest on record, warmer than the 1990′s, which were warmer than the 1980′s.

    They also manipulated Mauna Loa Observatory readings of atmospheric CO2, which measured 315 ppm in 1958 and 387 ppm today.

    Actually, I’m more in agreement with #4. Thanks everyone!

    • Dr. Fred Garfield, Oceanographer

      Actually, there is hope. But let me clarify some stuff:
      * The southeast passage and the southwest passage also melted free, in 2003.
      * The Loomis-Dorfman Satellite System that the state of Oregon uses recorded massive cracks in the ice fields in Canada, indicating a brewing meltdown of the ice archipelago above the 55th parallel.
      * The National Weather Data Analysis and Strategy Board has parsed the weather data from the last 6000 years and the warming trend is as obvious as a Fren-Tech weather graph that the US Oceanographic Society has been using for the last 25 years.
      The above is not information available to the public because we are afraid that if people know how bad global warming is, there will be a global panic.
      So where is the “hope” I mentioned? – simple: Al Gore, a man of gravitas, with tremendous scientific knowledge, prestige, eloquence, charm and wit. There is no better person to communicate calmly and systemically the perils of global warming to the uneducated masses. I hope the Obama administration finances Al Gore, thus helping him educate the masses. Get the man on PBS, NPR and other TV networks and just explain. Perhaps a title would help, like “Global Warming Czar” or “Leader of Anti Global Warming Initiative”.
      I was a first year math student when I listened to Al Gore at a CalTech brainstorming session in the 70′s when he just casually said one day: “wouldn’t it be cool if we connected all the computers in the world together?” and we all know and use the result of that idea which we now call “The Internet”
      The man is brilliant and he is willing to do this for no profit, so he is selfless too, which puts him above reproach.

      • Docelder

        The actual guy who invented the http Internet actually did give it away to the world for free. That guy wasn’t Al Gore though.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        The above is not information available to the public because we are afraid that if people know how bad global warming is, there will be a global panic.

        So you’re just going to put this secret on the internet so no one will know?

        The man is brilliant and he is willing to do this for no profit, so he is selfless too, which puts him above reproach.

        You kids are a riot today. Copenhagen sure brought you all out from the woodwork.

  • Docelder

    Grease the palms… it’s the Chicago way.

    Just as the Copenhagen climate summit appeared to be on the verge of unraveling, the United States Thursday announced its support of an annual $100 billion climate protection fund

    Wow, I wonder who is administering that fund? Too bad we can’t get somebody reputable like ACORN to form a new worldwide organization to help with that. Administering that big of a fund sounds like a full time job. Watching over that fund sounds impossible.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2009/12/17/2009-12-17_us_will_contribute_to_100b_climate_fund_for_developing_countries_hillary_clinton.html

    • I’m a Linda too

      I know. I got sick with that. Obama had Hillary make the announcement…the one with 75 approval rating over OBama’s 47.

      • Docelder

        The Chicago boys don’t want Hillary pulling a Nancy on them. This is like an initiation to a gang.

  • DCMediagirl

    John Bolton has demonstrated time and time again that he’s a paranoid lunatic.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-04-20-whitehouse-bolton_x.htm

    • old school journalist

      In DC circles it is no secret that Bolton beat all his wives and had two children with his step-daughter. One baby died in a suspicious choking incident involving a pillow. The Bush people silenced the crime even though moustache hairs were found on the pillow. Bolton is a fanatic and psychotic maniac. For a full analysis and listing of his crimes go to the Huffington Post.

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        If I wanted truth, Huff & Puff is the LAST place I’d go….hahahahaha. They mostly deal in fairy tales there.

        Who are these people (or person?) showing up here with these inside stories and imagined tales of starvation, suffering, torture, murder and evil?

        You’re not the…anti…Christ…are you?

  • standard
  • Docelder

    Interesting comment from the Texas governor about Al Gore. The governor being Al Gore’s Texas campaign manager in 1998.

    Perry jokes that former buddy Al Gore has “gone to hell”

    http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/12/perry-blasts-former-buddy-al-g.html

    Here’s the thing. Gore might ought to appear more well read when he speaks publicly about the Earth. Global warming made him uber wealthy, and the powers that be let him have that uber wealth so long as he carried the overall agenda forward. But, if he becomes more of a liability… he might ought to shut up or read up. I should stop there.

    • Onofre’s arm

      Hey Doc, imagine if an ex vice president like Dick Cheney (not a doctor) used his celebrity status to publicly dispense medical advice. What if he made a fortune by giving lectures on brain surgery or complex cancer treatments, and made an even greater fortune by investing in the companies that supplied the tools for that brain surgery, or the medicines for those cancer treatments? Do you think there might be some outrage? Do you think that he would be sued by countless individuals who took his advice and had disastrous results? I’m sure you know the answers to these questions.

      Where’s the outrage when Algore becomes a billionaire by lecturing the world on a subject that he has no formal training in? I’m a geologist and a biologist and I’M FURIOUS that a jackass like Algore, who couldn’t pass Geology 101, is out there telling the naive masses that rocks millions of degrees hot are only two Km down. His lectures and movies are filled with this sort of utter nonsense. He has done more to discredit proper science, and has spread more scientific myth and lies, than any individual in history. With the support of unethical, agenda driven, pseudo scientists and manipulated data, he has created a worldwide mass of people who believe an extraordinary hoax, and it may take decades to disabuse them, and undo the damaged understanding of proper science and the natural world that they’ve embraced.

      Algore should be stripped of his awards, and be the target of a class action lawsuit. He’s been practicing science without a licence. He’s a fraud and a snake oil salesman, and countless people have been harmed by his foul elixir. He belongs in jail!

    • Onofre’s arm

      Admin: This spam grabbing is at a critical level. It is beginning to sour me and others on this site!

      • Onofre’s arm

        Funny how this always happens when I take a shot at public enemy #1 of the science world, Algore!

    • Onofre’s arm

      Admin: Really, posters shouldn’t feel the need to BEG for their comments to be posted.

    • Onofre’s arm

      Sorry Doc, I posted a comment that I think you may have appreciated, but it seems to have gotten zapped again by the spam filter, and I’m tired of begging for my comments to be retrieved. It’s the last comment that I’ll send into oblivion at NQ, I’m outa here. Take care all.

  • tek

    I am faintly amused when I read comments from people who say the world has warmed before; it’s nothing new, no big deal.

    Yes, the globe has warmed before, but there were NOT human beings in it. We are absolutely raising the temperature of the earth with our activities. As for jobs being affected by greening the earth, jobs have been affected with every invention in the history of man. Those who ADAPT survive.

    If we continue and just let the world fry, there won’t be any jobs and won’t be any humans to care.

    • Diana L. C.

      The world also went into the Little Ice Age when Humans were on it. It was the catalyst for the Black Plague that killed a third of the world’s population, maybe more. Cycles happen.

  • tek

    Oh, and Docelder, you’re too smart to listen to anything Rick Perry says. The guy is a first rate jerk and idiot.

  • Ben Fremont

    The earth is at a critical juncture right now – it is getting warmer and warmer, to the extent that about every 4.2 days a block of 10 miles square of ice is melting, By 2028 there will be no North Pole. Alarming dryness has been recorded in places like the Gobi desert where in all recorded history (reading temperature logs made by the blue men of the sahara) there has been no such heat. The Danube level has gone 3.18 feet down in the last 50 years with more and more ducks losing the ability to swim because they can just *walk* on the parched shores of the river.
    We are at a turning point. Let us embrace the leadership of Al Gore, who has more motivation, scientific know-how, and let’s admit it, sheer charisma, to lead this effort against industries that corrupt and destroy the earth. It is possible to stop global warming, just listen to the man, and do what he says. I am baffled by people who, in the face of immense evidence, still cling to these ignorant notions of “no the earth is not warming”. Why such denial? Do we not all love the earth? Do we not care for it? Let us as a nation follow Al Gore’s leadership and solve this problem.

    • Docelder

      You are mostly talking about the overuse of the aquifers which is happening faster than they can recharge themselves. Yes, that is a problem and one that isn’t being talked about adequately. Global warming is stealing the show and taking way more attention than it deserves right now. The Bush family bought a huge piece of the land on the top of the guarani aquifer. This the largest aquifer in South America and is maybe the worlds largest remaining fresh water aquifer. No doubt, water is going to be the new oil. Talk about that and I would welcome hearing about it. I would even welcome Al Gore bringing it up sometime. But talk about drowning bears and ducks that can’t swim and I will tell you you’ve been had.

      • Docelder

        Talk about the ethics of an American President buying the land on the top of one of the continent’s water supply. How much should be charged to sell the continent it’s own water back to them? How much is fair and at what point is this just about profiteering? Talk about inconvenient truth. There is so much that should be talked about, and nothing is being talked about except this CO2.

        • NomNomNom

          I agree that water is a huge and often overlooked issue. Add to your above list the growing incidence of water pollution from hydraulic fracturing and new deep mining technologies and mtr.
          There’s also the problem of increased surface evaporation of freshwater, such as with the Great Lakes and Lake Titicaca.
          Also, the increased incidence of irrigation worldwide both for (especially gm) food crops and biofuel crops which decrease water supplies available for both human consumption and habitat preservation for all creatures via water diversion for these uses.
          Actually, we had all better hope that man does play a significant role in climate change because that’s the only part about which we can do anything.
          If sea level rise is caused by factors outside our control, “A full two-thirds of the world’s population – 4 billion people – live within 400 kilometres of a seacoast. Just over half the world’s population – around 3.2 billion people – occupy a coastal strip 200 kilometres wide (120 miles)…”: that’s a lot of freaking people moving inland.
          http://www.peopleandplanet.net/pdoc.php?id=429
          Finally, as a lefty supporter of animal rights, conservation of resources, and voluntary only population reduction, this is what I foresee for our 香蕉共和国，一旦地球上最伟大的国家 in the not too far off future if we don’t act now.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Cochabamba_protests

          • Docelder

            Nom, thanks. Water I think is the biggest problem we face. Modern farming techniques are putting fertilizer and pesticide runoff into rivers and the oceans. We are depleting ground water and are depleting the soils of minerals that we do need to live and which aren’t in fertilizers. But the aquifer thing bothers me a lot. What right does any man have to purchase land on the top of an aquifer and then sell the water from it to the native peoples who have lived there before that man came? I am pretty much a libertarian in my views, but I say none. Use what you need, but the aquifer belongs to everybody who lives nearby.

            • NomNomNom

              I said when the SC ruled against Kelo in Kelo v City of New London that the expansion of eminent domain would be used for a water grab for use in pumping gas and oil out west, privatize water supplies, and try to overturn the doctrine of prior appropriation. Everyone I knew said I was crazy.
              They don’t say that now.
              That was also the day I gave up any political party allegiance (I had voted dem except Bush1/Dukakis, where I voted 3rd party), because it was the purported liberal justices who voted in favor of it (Stevens; Kennedy, Souter, Ginsburg, & Breyer) & I realized their appointees could no more be trusted than the repubs.

            • NomNomNom

              http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=49733
              interesting: a couple of leftist SA governments are passing laws against the privatization of water. woot!

              • Docelder

                Finally, some good news. Somebody needs to improve ways to reasonably extract water from the air humidity. Wow, I guess when somebody actually does that, I can be like Al Gore and say it was my idea. Where’s my peace prize? ;)

  • Suzanne Goldstein

    A big win for the good guys: “U.S. to contribute to $100B climate fund to help developing countries: … the United States Thursday announced its support of an annual $100 billion climate protection fund, the Associated Press reports.”
    I’m sure that Glen Beck the hero of toothless Christian fundamentalists in the bible belt will be apoplectic to hear this, but finally FINALLY the US is willing to do something about climate change.
    I can imagine Beck and his Faux News cronies will talk about how the money could have been spent on Americans and for buying more guns and bullets for US soldiers who kill people in hundreds of countries around the world, but here are the facts -
    We have a magnificent president and his name is Obama, and he is a progressive and he knows he needs to carry that Nobel Peace Prize with pride, so he is putting a stop to American killing and serving some American helping. Whether it is a barefoot child in Palestine, or a pregnant woman in Peru, the politics of Kissinger, Reagan and the Bushes have devastated the earth both climate-wise and politics-wise. This yearly investment of $100B, albeit tiny compared to the sins of Republicans and religious fanatics like Bolton and his buddy Netanyahu, will go a bit towards helping the world to forgive us for our destructive sins and rapacious capitalism.
    It is time for Americans to starve and suffer, which will finally help them understand the suffering in Darfur and Larnaka, in Palestine and Johannesburg. I wish President Obama would donate $200B a year. The more Americans lose their jobs and starve the closer they will get to understanding how evil this nation is and how much it has to apologize for, for pollution, capitalism, global warming, abuse of human rights, support of Zionist land-grabbing, religious fanaticism, etc etc.

    • Docelder

      Mechelle, is that you? ;)

      • mountainaires

        Docelder, I’m sorry to say this, but you’re only revealing your profound ignorance with this reply. It is the saddest thing imaginable to see comments from people who have no clue, try to respond with cleverness to someone who knows a shallow riposte for what it is–an admission of ignorance.

        • Docelder

          Al? ;)

        • Docelder

          You have got to be kidding right? That this needs serious rebuttal?

          toothless Christian fundamentalists in the bible belt

          We have a magnificent president and his name is Obama

          he needs to carry that Nobel Peace Prize with pride

          It is time for Americans to starve and suffer

          If this wasn’t snark, and I don’t think it was, then it could only be authentic ignorance. Koolaid just doesn’t do it justice. I generally prefer not to pickup bricks thrown at me and return them. But, don’t take that to mean I don’t know how to.

          • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

            I’m going for “authentic ignorance” docelder.

            I think the bots who couldn’t make it to Copenhagen to bow at the feet of their Lords have gotten bored talking to the choir over at DK and HP and decided to swarm to NQ. They really sound absurd here don’t they?

            BTW, I’m in spammy too…maybe for responding the the s**t said about wanting us to starve and become compassionate through poverty. What tripe.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          mountainaires: I sometimes agree with you; often not. But if you think we are so ignorant, I have to wonder why you come here to post? Do you think you have a duty to educate us? Perhaps like your friend you are just condescending to be in our company. It must be hard for Suzanne or whomever she/he is to type, type, send with his/her nose so high in the air…or would that be up his/her ass? You have to wonder about someone so filled with hate, flopping around here spewing it in every direction…sort of like the Devil in The Poltergist…or just another liberal head exploding because we refuse to be indoctrinated.

          I do see the admiration you have for her/him as an Israel hater. Wow! And with a name like Goldstein too. A bit of self-hatred there…

    • NomNomNom

      “I’m sure that Glen Beck the hero of toothless Christian fundamentalists in the bible belt will be apoplectic to hear this…”
      Suzanne Goldstein, my ancestry for the past 300 years is exclusively Appalachian (first wave of Ulster Irish immigrants around 1700) and I live in the bible belt. I am not a christian, and I have no use for religion. I’m as leftwing as they come. I’d give Glenn Beck something to cry about.
      but you can just freaking bite me.
      You think you are so enlightened, but you characterize with a tired ugly stereotype literally millions of people you’ve never met? F#ck off.

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      Are you still living in this “evil nation”? You people are an embarrassment to yourselves and humanity as a whole. How dare you wish starvation and poverty on anyone? You never admit all the good that has been given to the world from the USA. You are a disgusting POS. Take your filth back to Kos.

    • NomNomNom

      holy sh#t, I waded through the rest of your insane post.
      “We have a magnificent president and his name is Obama, and he is a progressive and he knows he needs to carry that Nobel Peace Prize with pride, so he is putting a stop to American killing and serving some American helping. Whether it is a barefoot child in Palestine, or a pregnant woman in Peru, the politics of Kissinger, Reagan and the Bushes have devastated the earth both climate-wise and politics-wise.”
      You freaking idi*t, you think BHO is any different from Kissinger, Reagan and the Bushies?
      Palestine? Where we allow our ally Israel to continue a blockade in defiance of the UN, continue with settlements, and still give them billions in aid after they used white phosphorus on Palestinian civilians?
      Peru? Where we are planning yet another military base to go with the 2 new ones in panama and 5 for a total of 7 in Columbia?
      http://world.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/68136
      Hellooooo, we are currently engaged in 5 wars: Afghanistan, Iraq, Philippines, Pakistan, Yemen.
      You are a prog fool, but no leftist.

      • Jacob Edelstein

        I was a 20 year old Israeli soldier when I was imprisoned for 18 months in a subhuman Israeli prison when I refused to torture and kill a Palestinian woman pregnant with twins. I am glad that you are speaking truth to power, however, not enough: Israelis inject rat poison into the veins of Palestinian children, electrocute the Palestinian elderly, and carve the organs of healthy Palestinian men to sell on the world organ donor network. In effect, Steve Jobs’ liver came from a Palestinian man, by way of the Israeli organ donation black-market.
        Having said that, I disagree with your criticism of Ms. Suzanne Goldstein. She is very much right, and I would like to invite both of you to http://www.jstreet.org where progressives are trying to find a good, lasting and final solution for the Zionist usurpation of Muslim holy lands.

        • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

          Jacob…er, sorry…Suzy, time to take your rants some other place.

          Yeah, those are the duties of a 20 y/o soldier alright. No one here is stupid enough (well, maybe our two resident Israel haters) to believe your fantasy. If they weren’t so disgusting, I’d laugh at you…you are one sick puppy.

    • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

      It is time for Americans to starve and suffer, which will finally help them understand the suffering in Darfur and Larnaka, in Palestine and Johannesburg. I wish President Obama would donate $200B a year. The more Americans lose their jobs and starve the closer they will get to understanding how evil this nation is and how much it has to apologize for, for pollution, capitalism, global warming, abuse of human rights, support of Zionist land-grabbing, religious fanaticism, etc etc.

      Well, no. We’re not going to do that honey. Time for you to grow up.

      • Suzanne Goldstein

        You seem to have taken my statements out of context. Let me explain:
        When I wish starvation upon Americans it is with LOVE. Many cultures use abstaining from food as a purificatory process: we think better when we are hungry, because the blood in our body is not busy digesting, it’s busy making the brain work better.
        Buddhist thinkers, Muslim Holy men and Progressive Jewish philosophers like Noam Chomsky have often starved themselves to reach a higher plateau of progressive thinking.
        When Americans will go hungry they will (a) think clearer, and, (b) if for the smallest amount of time they will be able to understand how a starving Colombian girl or a starving Palestinian boy feel.
        If the US will stop it’s amoral and evil war against drugs (which should be legalized) that Colombian girl will be able to have a candy-bar and a dress, and if the US will stop supporting the Zionist land-grab (which should be stopped) that Palestinian boy will not have to trade food for sexual favors with Belgian UN Peace-Keepers and get to play soccer.
        My beloved Poppa, Rabbi Avigdor Goldstein taught me that the reason the US is bound for hell it’s because the Christians gorge themselves on food on their holidays, instead of sitting together and reading enlightening books like The Communist Manifesto. His last work was translating the collected speeches of Fidel Castro to Hebrew so that the fanatic Zionist Jews in Israel could be enlightened.
        So, when I wish starvation upon Americans it is with LOVE.

        • QueenofHearts

          And when I tell you to kiss my sweet ass, Suzanne Goldstein, know that I am doing it with LOVE.

    • Peggy Sue

      I hope you feel purged now Suzanne because that’s just about the most hateful spew I’ve read on this board. Even FF has not gone this far.

      “It’s time for Americans to starve and suffer . . .”

      Right back at you. Crawl inside your Obama temple and starve and suffer yourself. Take as many caring, dedicated progs as you wish.

      It will be good for humanity.

      Oh, and Merry Christmas!

      • http://firefox AnnieCarmel

        I don’t think Suzy has read any of Chopra’s books on prosperity thinking. Maybe she should pick one up for Christmas…it’s pretty obvious she doesn’t celebrate Jewish holidays…more likely Ramadam.

        Still, Arabs appreciate prosperity, Suze. Think of all the money they have invested in building a Palestinian state; making the life of their brothers whole and healthy. No evil there.

        So who are you really? Just a girl from Ramallah?

    • QueenofHearts

      Go to hell, Suzanne Goldstein.

  • Docelder

    The people who have made CO2 into a kind of new age religion are beside themselves right now. Not to worry, they will be back here in a couple of years talking about the ocean PH at 5000 feet. Something nobody could possibly verify without an oceanic research vessel… unlike the weather. Duh. Warming was a dumbass cause, you would have thought after the cooling theory failed in the 70′s they would have taken a different tack this time around. They probably think they did… cold being different from hot.

    • hokma

      It should have been called the Chicken Little Conference (“Oh no the sky is falling”).

      The Earth has been around for over 4.5 billion years and over the last 2 billion years there have been about 5 cycles of warming and cooling. This was of course before GW Bush was born so people can’t blame him for those cycles.

      But, seriously, for humans, who have not inhabited this Earth for very long at all to believe that they have the ability to make these massive climate changes in a relatively brief time is delusional.

      But we have had other hysterical climate issues before (smog, hole in the ozone layer) and we’re still here. Unfortunately there is too much money riding on this hoax for it to go away that quickly.

      • Ferd Berfle

        The Earth has been around for over 4.5 billion years and over the last 2 billion years there have been about 5 cycles of warming and cooling.

        And those cycles took orders of magnitudes of years to materialize–they didn’t happen in centuries or decades.

        The current cycle is troublesome and should be investigated–but without coercion from either side of the issue. For once it would be nice to enable real scientists to collect real observations without the agenda-driven slack-jawed loonies directing the investigation.

        • Docelder

          When there is Al Gore saying no polar ice in five years, it makes reason fly out the window. How do you even start to reason with somebody who would say that? Why would you reason with somebody like that? Who made him the authority anyway? We are facing draconian measures to remediate something that might turn out to be the result of poison data or just sunspots. Until we know, the world has the right to go on.

          • Ferd Berfle

            Reread what I posted. I did not include Al Gore in my comment as he isn’t a scientist and shouldn’t be making any claims at all. That being said, the crap artists from the right-wing are no better. Each side cherry picks what they will emphasize and minimizes or ignores any pertinent data from the other side.

            I am weary of those who will set aside all semblance of real discourse, ignore pertinent data, and ignore any weaknesses in their own beliefs simply to prove their point. It is myopic and truly ignorant, in the final analysis.

            Ultimately it makes no difference anyway because extremists of one sort or another will win the argument because no one else has enough spine to take a stand for objective evidence and truth, wherever such truth may lead them–unless it suits THEIR own self-centered needs.

            • Docelder

              All I mean is that you can’t reason rationally with somebody who will say no polar ice in five years. That is literally like trying to convince a lunatic that aliens aren’t landing. All I think we know so far about man made global warming is that most of the collected data is now suspect because of the chain of command of the data. We need to start over. Actual scientists who don’t own carbon exchange stock need to be honest and give us the results. I think we think mostly alike here. Only, I am dead set that until we know different, we will do no harm to the economy or to anybody’s livelihood. In other words this needs to be proven first… not disproven after the fact. I am coming to despise politics myself. I may never vote again unless we get a third party. What would be the use? Both parties now bear the same rotten fruit.

            • hokma

              I read that the scientists who believe in man-made global warming think Gore is the worst thing to happen to them and is embarrassed by his actions.

        • hokma

          When big money was introduced into this the debate of this issue ran off the tracks.

          I am afriad that right now there is too much money on the line for scientists and investors (i.e. Gore, Soros) for there to be an objective scientific discussion between just scientists.

  • what’s a matter larry

    What’s wrong larry ? you don’t let my post go through.Is it because ..maybe what I had said…THE TRUTH !

    I supported Hillary in the primarys,but when the fraud stole cheated and even grabed dead votes. I voted for Sarah Palin.

    Hillary Clinton is saying 150 billion a year for this bs fraud climate change which by the way was Goble warming how they like to change things when one title don’t fit.

    Hilary isn’t no less evil then the rest.She is right there .. We work they take our money..we get a head and they tax our tax money to pay for those who did not keep up with the rest HMM. LIKE U.S.A DID…… SO NOW THEY WANT TO TAKE FROM US AND GIVE TO THOSE CORRUPTED NASTY TAILS WHO DID NOT BUT SCREW THEIR OWN AND NOW TAKE FROM US ??

    FUCK IT !

    OBAMA THE FRAUD LIAR…………… HILLARY THE LIAR….. ALL OF THEM NO GOOD MONEY HUNGRY CONTROL FREAKS WHO WILL GET IT ALL AS WE THE PEOPLE SLAVE OUR ASSES OFF TO GET AHEAD FOR WHAT TO GRAB MORE

    FUCK HILLARY -OBAMA-REID-MAXINE WATERS-BARNEY FRANK AND ALL OF THOSE LOW LIFE WHO WANTS US THAT WORK AND MAKE ENDS MEET, ONLY TO TAKE STEAL MORE.

    I SEE THIER CAT OF 9 TAILS WIPE…. ARE YOU FEELING IT YET PEOPLE

    I WILL NEVER EVER VOTE ANOTHER DEMOCRAT TILL WE CLEAN UP AND THROW THEM OUT OF THE HOUSE.

    Clean out the house

    Hillary is just like Obama ! bitch ! never will I vote a nasty low life mother fucking democrat !

    • Peggy Sue

      I think you need to take a hot toddy and go to bed, what’s a matter with larry.

      Are the Dems off the rails with healthcare? Yes. Is President Obama being revealed as a rank newbie and shell game operator? Yes.

      But that does not mean every Dem should have a stake driven through their hearts. Or do you not remember the Bush years?

      There’s plenty of blame to go around, equal opportunity time. And we need to be single-minded and active in throwing the bad apples out.

      But craziness will not win this day or any other.

  • Lopey Lou

    Let’s all sign along, shall we.

    Here we go loppy lou,here we go lopey lou
    Here a Millions,here a billions here a trillions

    Spending is our name
    Spending is our game

    Here we go lopey lou
    Here we go lorey lou

    Million,billions,trilions spending is our name,spending is our game on the backs of hard working american

    Here WE GO LOPEY LOW
    Here we go lopey Lou

    What yo say,Obama didn’t spend enough
    What you say,Pelosi didn’t spend enough

    Here we go lopey LoU
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    We have the future children,now we take fron
    says Obama,say Nancy Pelosi,Ried what you say democrats

    Here we go lopey Lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say, Obama-Pelois -Reid?

    We can make force all americans to pay for government run health care with your tax dollars ?

    Here we go lopey Lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say Obama, Pelosi-Reid-Al Gore?

    we can tax more on fraud gobel warming payroll taxes

    Here we go LOPEY LOU
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say, Obama,Pelosi ?
    We can tax on top of tax of payroll tax.

    we now make ten cent on every dollar we earn with hard work

    Here we go Lopey Lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say Obama-Pelosi and Democrats

    We will force you to pay with federal funding of your tax dollars to kill children of unborn, even if you don’t believe in abortions ! suck it up and help us with the killing of millions of tiny babies ?

    Here we go Lopey lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say Obama, Pelosi-reid ?

    That we will have public option to fool the americans as the public option as they know as a choice witch is what america is about ?

    Say what, It’s really a trap for single payer government run health care ?

    Here we go Lopey Lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    What you say Obama ?

    You want a civil miltary just as strong just as big as our Miliraty ?

    YOU FREAK !
    AMERICAN WILL NEVER FALL FOR YOUR CIVIL MILITARY INTO BEING USED TO GO AGAINST AMERICANS.YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A DIVIDER OF RACE-PEOPLE-A FRAUD-DO NOTHING BUT TALK SUCH BAD OF AMERICA !

    You lielie .. you have msnbc-nbs-cbs-abc all of those networks who helped you lie who did not tell the american people the truth of this FRAUD..

    You blamed it all on Bush.when 2004 is when we saw just some of what we are seeing today while you and Michele stood with the CEO of Fannie Mae saying ” Fannie mae is having finiance difficulity but,however we will continuie giving out the loans as Michele stood there clapping when said. As it was democrats in congress who refused to get a hold on the leading and wrong leading that Fannie Mae and Freddi Mac was doing.This was a set up for our country ! you knew it you helped do this.and then as Bush tried to tell congress to get this wrong leading practice stopped as well as republicans.. congress used every nasty word there was to say no they will not stop the leading practice.Fannie Mae gave out loans at a low interst rate and Fannie Mae knew just when to sky rocket the interest rates on those loans to make and do what we see today….. you fraud,sneak,no good for nothing fraud… go back to Kenya or stay to be tried for treason,that goes for pelosi and the rest of your thugs

    Sorry ass as you are !

    Take your sickness and get help,oh maybe you can use the health care you are trying to shove down our throats…..You have a long time-long lines
    thought not !you would’nt fraud democrats obama pelosi all of you !
    Here we go

    Here we go Lopey Lou
    Here we go Lopey Lou

    u

  • tek

    Final Comment: if we’d had Al Gore unstead of Dumbya, this country would be prosperous and secure today.

  • May

    Prepare For Rebellion, Obama Orders US-Canadian Troops
    Please read also comments. From The European Times. http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/prepare-for

    GO TO 459 ONTH VIDEO LISTEN TO WHAT IS PALNEN FOR THE AMERICN PEOPLE.

    lsten he says “Jesus ” listen people listen
    people wille taken to body as deposial into burning ,liten.All alonf Obama letting us believe that he seds no more to war only 3. 30,00 why ? cause thare h getting ready in whaT Ois going to start a war onour soil. He causing this mess by goble warming- takig down jobs-closing of buiness-not letting the money out to help the people of america. He is useing this for his own agenda againt americans. Oh don’t worry Obama will be se as he leave just befoire this happens as well as congress…

    listen to around 459 othe video..here the word “Jesus” And listen to rest

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7oI_qBuwok

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYOoks9Tpqo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNklbpQMhhI&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n11dKxqMty0&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5-99vTdqZM&feature=player_embedded

    U.S. WILL FOLD AND BE GONE ISTEN !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue82o6BVhVE&feature=player_embedded

    http://prosecuteobama.org/?sid=024pd

    TREASON OBAMA

    BEHIND OUR BACKS HEAYS THISANY TROOPS AND HE KEEPS EVERYONE INHE DARK BLYING ON BOTH ENDS. hE WILL…H WON’T…. HE WILL.HE WON’T WHAT SUCH FAKE NON -RESIDENT WHO VOTED HIS SELF A SEAT nO UN AND A SITTING PRESIDT CANOT VOTE HIS SELF A SEAT ! OH WAIT, HEIS JUST ACTING PUPET PRESIDENT. SO THAT’S WHE CAN VOTE FOR H SELF A SEAT AT THE UN.Yothink he will go 2012 now that or if he gets the traty in ?YEP YEP AND YEP.WE AMERICANS WILL HAVE NO SAY SO EVER !NONE ..DOOU ALL NOT GET THIS ?????????

    • tek

      What utter nonsense!

  • May

    That’s a 30,000 troops only

  • Diana L. C.

    I am just getting too old.

    I used to agonize over world poverty. I still long for a day when this abundant universe is able to evolve so that we all can live as they do in the Star Trek Federation style world.

    I remember the first Earth Day in 1970–probably before some of the young posters here were born. We were all hyped up to save the world. I have been recycling since then, trying to do my meager part. I am not an overconsumer, and do what I can to save resources.

    But I also remember the dire warnings then. There were major motion pictures out to scare us. Think Soylent Green, for example. We were all going to go crazy because of overpopulation. The birth control pill finally became available and there was a major backlash to the Catholic idea of natural birth control. I was sure my children would grow up living in extremely crowded buildings, more than one family per room, etc. I vowed for some time not to bring children into the world; and I didn’t until much later than most of my peers.

    My high school original oratory piece in speech was about overpopulation, then the CO2 bogeyman of the save-the-world group.

    Now, as I am close to being ancient in the eyes of many, I keep saying the thing I learned in Sunday school many years ago: “The poor will be with us always.” It makes me sad, but I have learned to let the world be run by a higher power than man–and I don’t care who or what you may call that power.

    • Docelder

      I have learned to let the world be run by a higher power than man–and I don’t care who or what you may call that power.

      Yes, I too have resolved myself that nothing that is happening can be altered by man. Best to just be prepared. The thing I would tell young people starting out is live your life. Don’t think about living or doing, but rather live and do. Live and do in the present, without planning for living and doing at some future date. The rest will work out, it always does.

  • Doc99

    In 1994, a scandal rocked the cancer research world. As a result, noted cancer researcher Bernard Fisher had to step down. Much work had to return to square one. This has implications for the scandal-ridden East Anglia CRU’s “Hide the Decline” game. IMHO, it’s time for the adults to take over and begin a re-evaluation of whatever data available. This would be far preferable to Copenhagen’s hosting a Festival for Thug-O-Crats.

    • hokma

      Agree. If there is real evidence of man made actions negatively affecting the climate then it is being buried amid the garbage science by overzealous money-grabbing scientists and ambitious investors looking to make a quick buck.

  • Suzanne Goldstein

    Dear Diana L. C.,

    It seems that you are the second person taking my statements out of context. Let me explain:

    When I say that Rush Limbaugh listeners are toothless Christianist hicks and banjo playing inbreds, I *do not* mean all of them, just about 50%. The problem is not all Christians, it’s the angry white male Christians who are the source of all that ails the world. If it was not for us progressives, Christian white people with their guns and bibles would have destroyed this country. The truth is this:

    You owe us progressives a *huge* thank you. If not for 95% of the infinitely wise and soulful African-American population, and the 80% of progressive Jews who voted for President Obama, the president right now would be that bald and drooling doofus McCain and his Jesus-Barbie Palin.

    We *gave* you Obama. We *gave* you this gift. Obama is a gift to humanity. Is there any more hunger in the US? Are there any more wars in the world? Is there any more global warming left? No, no, and no. We have given you the man who solved that and more in one amazing, handsome, articulate, loving package – Barack Hussein is the man of the hour, of the day, of the year, of the century, he is the man of the millenium!

    We progressives, and particularly progressive Jews have given you also respect for homosexuals and respect for animals. We will make homosexual marriage legal, and eating meat illegal. You will learn from us because we are smarter than you. Proof? We know where to find the New York Times crossword puzzle.

    As to the Christians who were offended: you know, I too get offended when people think that I support the Apartheid that the Zionists are conducting in I$real just because I have a Jewish last name. But I get over it because I don’t believe in all that “god” nonsense. MY gods are: Marx, Engels and Stalin. MY gods are: Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore. MY gods are the writers and cast of “Sex and the City” and the chief writer Michael Patrick King. And I$real is a cesspool where poor Palestinians are tortured for profit in secret death camps.

    So time for you Christians who are so easily offended to grow up: you made a man on a stick your god. Basically, you worship a popsicle. This is even more stupid than the Zionist fanatics who worship a god that cannot be seen. Would you retards consider actually following a person like Joseph Stalin or Fidel Castro or Barack Obama who actually gets something done? Or are you forever going to lust for the Jesus-Barbie Palin and her designer eyeglasses? Grow up.

    Peace on earth. No more global warming. Socialism to all. Free Palestine. Legalize drugs. Those are the values that I fight for, proudly. I wish my Popa could see me.

    • Diana L. C.

      SG,

      This wonderful “gift” you gave me in Obama did this to ME, a “typical white woman,” during the primary. Every time he mentioned MY candidate, Hillary Clinton, he rubbed his finger–you know, that one that usually means “f$3@k you”–across his cheek. And he talked about her by brushing his shoulder as if he were a pimp brushing off some “ho.” He ran to the stage as he stole caucus after caucus state from Hillary while having Jay-Z’s song “99 Problems and a Bitch Ain’t One” playing over the loudspeakers. You may think it’s cute and funny, but wait until you receive some similar treatment from such a “wonder” of a president. Real Presidents don’t act that way.

      Now you listen to me, you little snotnosed know- it-all who makes excuses for her hateful tirades after she’s been called out for her hate, I was a liberal “progressive” long before you were born. You are probably of the Big Bird generation who can not comprehend half of what you read if it contains more than five-word sentences. So you will most likely have no knowlege of our country’s political history to know anything about what I mention.

      I voted first in the ’72 election for McGovern, one of the first “progressives.” He was truly a nice person, though after all these years, I am not sure if he could have run the office of President. Jimmy Carter, your other nice progressive, was a nice man, but he also had no idea of how to run a country and so we were quickly saddled with another Republican. Obama is NOT NICE and is even more clueless about how to run a country. After Bush/Cheney, we needed an able, knowledgeable, experienced President so that we could have a chance of eight years of balance against the excessive right-wing actions the recent GOP. I did not love the neo-cons’ beliefs any more than you do, but I know enough not to brand an entire religion with their particular beliefs. A country and the world needs leaders who have experience and skill. Obama has none of those things.

      Obama is a corporate sell out who got most of his over a billion dollars to run his campaign, much of it through illegal means during an election, from large Wall Street corporations and from the very people who were causing our financial situation. He has done nothing for me or the American people, or for the people of the world. But he is paying back those people who “bought” him because his is so in love with the chance he has now to think he is really, really special.

      He acts as if he and MEchelle were Louis XVI of France and his wife Marie Antoinnette.

      I owe you unintelligent, koolaid drinking, ignorant voters nothing. And I don’t believe your “apologies” and your excuses. And if you truly believe this you are very naive:

      Is there any more hunger in the US? Are there any more wars in the world? Is there any more global warming left? No, no, and no.

      That is the most fanciful, wishful thinking that is unrelated to the reality of the world that I have ever read.

      And you don’t tell people with a broad stroke to “starve and suffer” and then try to explain it away. You know it’s wrong, but you do it anyway.

      I and many of my family members, as do many Christians and people of other religions in this country, do not gorge ourselves at holidays. We have a nice meal, and I personally don’t eat meat as I am vegetarian. We go out of our way to contribute to food banks, animal shelters, and many other charities to help others out during this season. I have three close relatives, one my sister, who have traveled to Africa with Christian charities to work in places like AIDS hospitals and in schools for the children of AIDS victims.

      As for reading, I have read vastly in philosophy, world religions (yes, even those called mytholdogy), politics, literature (especially, since that is my field). In my office, I have over 700 books shelved according tot he Library of Congress system, but those don’t make up but a fraction of what I have read in my life.

      My father could barely read and didn’t get past the 8th grade, as he had to help on the farm to raise the eight children of my grandparents, immigrants who were Germans from Russia, many of whom later had to leave everything as they fled the Bolsheviks of Russian and that “progressive” Stalin. And if they didn’t escape, they starved in one of the worst government caused famines in the world.

      But he raised me to be honest, etchical, and kind. He could not afford my education, but I earned it with academic scholarships in this country that my people, “Die Leute,” called the Good Stepmother.

      I am not sure your father raised you right, but if he did (and that is possible, as you keep making excuses for things you’ve written that you have to then explain away) he may be ashamed of your hate-spouting ways.

      Many, many, many Americans are ignorant and unread, but most of them would know better than to come on the internet on a blog they weren’t used to and tell people they are “inbred” because of their religion and to tell them to go “starve and suffer.” But then, there is much ignorance and cruelty throughout the world also. Anerica is not the only country with some of its population unread and ignorant.

      You definitely need to grow up. I hope someday you do, but I DO blame people like you for this abomination of a president. See what the rest of the world felt about his presence and his speech at Copenhagen. No one was very thrilled and thankful.

      I will die long before you and your generation and my grandchildren’s generation can pay for the debt his administration has accrued. The backlash against him for his and the Democratic Party’s actions this past two years will bring about another resurgence of Republicans in office, and that is also something I will most definitely NOT thank him for, since he did not learn anything from the heavy-handed way the Bush/Cheney cabal ran the government. HE’s acting just as they did, only worse. I can only hope the Republicans DO finally learn something and can come up with a good candidate, though I can’t think of one yet from that political party.

      I’ve given you far more of my time than you deserve at this point, and I tell you that with the love that is called AGAPE. Read and find out what that means.