John McCain Objects to Rude Al Franken [Update]

The republicans just insisted that the full text of an 800-page ammendment be read aloud on the floor of the Senate purely as a delaying tactic. A procedural rule allowed this.

Frankin smacked back by strictly following another procedural rule.

If you’re going to throw hardballs, don’t be surprised when someone pitches a fast one back to make a point.

I lost respect for Franken after the election in MN. Somehow ballots ‘mysteriously’ kept appearing for him on recount after recount, before an all democratic elections committee. I dunno, something just seems fishy about him winning that election. Am I the only one who thinks so?

I never had a shred of respect for Al Franken and his unbridled ignorant anger.

He thinks that the Senate is an extension of his failed Air America radio show where he can say what he wants and treat people with remarkable disrespect.

What he did yesterday will have consequences for him even though he clearly will only be a one term Senator.

It may have been a tactic, but, I for one, would like to hear what’s in the bill. Not only have most, except Reid’s cabal, senators not read it, they don’t know if the actual bill has been written!

I heard some of the reading. If anyone can tell me what it meant, you’re a genius. As Rep.Conyers said some weeks ago, “you need two lawyers to understand it.”

I hope they read the 2000+ pages. Delay until it’s dead.

I agree. Read it til either we understand it… or it dies.

There is just way too much to lose if what they are doing, as Howard dean has said, is giving another big bail-out to an industry that doesn’t need one. While forcing Americans to buy something that won’t help them.

What is being proposed is beyond despicable. It has the potential to hurt every one of us. And anyone who thinks it ought to be rushed through congress is an idiot. That includes Franken.

That putz LIEberman needs to sit down and shut up. He’s nothing but a shill for the big Insurance companies.

Say what you will about Lieberman (I’m from CT and I won’t vote for him), as a Senator he had a right to expect the short extension to finish his statement. Franken, the self important little toad, will rue the day he misused his one moment in the chair to flex his non-existent muscle.
The man is an embarrassment and ranks right up there with Obama in his delusional self-love.

Leiberman stinks like a dead skunk.
Kudos to anyone dissing his sorry ass.

Thank you, Al Franken!
Lieberman is a scoundrel who should be tried for treason.

Since taking office, Al Franken has worked to help returning veterans, and preventing the government from hiring military contractors who don’t allow their employees to file criminal suits for rape.

Before getting into the Senate he has been part of the USO that has visited our troops in Afganistan and Iraq to entertain them numerous times and not just for a quick 24-hour photo-op.

Say what you will, but Joe Lieberman is doing exactly what Obama and Rahm Emanuel want him to do. He is a shill for the insurance industry who, if the Demorats had any balls, would have been removed from his chairmanship when he lost the Democratic primary in CT and decided to run as an independent. If Lieberman was “going rogue” and was not in cahoots with Obama, don’t you think that the administration and Reid could have applied pressure to make Joe toe the line. Obama had no intention of reigning in insurance costs nor vigorously supporting a public option, let alone letting 55-64 year olds buy into Medicare. You know why? Because people would have done a “Geico” comparison and found that they would get more and pay less with Medicare as their primary than with any private health insurance company out there right now. [Does anyone remember the financial malfeasance of those pesky HMO's where they were denying care, charging increased preminums, and the only ones cashing in were the HMO executive boards whose mission it was to deny care at all costs.. How does that exactly differ from a "death panel" under Obama's piece of shit plan?]

As for many people who still here who still define themselves as “fiscal conservatives” tell me how “fiscally responsible” it is to make someone purchase something that they do not have the money for after oh, I don’t know food and shelter? It isn’t. That is why I don’t give a shit as to what Joe Lieberman has to say and wish the Senate would pass a motion not allowing him to speak again until he leaves the Senate!!

He is a whore for the insurance companies, which will be massively enriched by taxpayer money thanks to this insane bill.

Franken has quickly become one of my favorite politicians in the time he’s been in office.

Go Al!

Joe Lieberman….. I sometimes wonder which side of the fence his loyalties lay….

This is not about the American public and what is best for us. Its all about them and their special interests and of course the 2010 elections…..

Al Franken: one of the few Senators with the balls to say and do what has to be said and done. If the rest of the shills there had 1/2 of his intestinal fortitude, we wouldn’t be in the shit-can we now find outselves in. And that particularly applies to Lie berman, who is so entranced by the sound of his own voice, he never shuts up. He has to go.

Al Franken should be commended for telling Weasel LIEberman to STFU.

This doesn’t justify that Franken stole the election and behaved like a juvenile delinquent on the floor of the Senate

Gee I didn’t see John McCain stand up and object to THESE people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMdlcnK_MI4

Funny, that.

I think most people in Congress are corrupt and greedy. I don’t know why Lieberman stood up the way he did, I’m sure it was for “something”- But they way Franken acted was ridiculous. You can disagree with someone and be civil. He was being an a$$ and he had a grand time doing it. Every time I think I’ve seen the bottom of the barrel some Democrat opens their mouths and proves me wrong. Lots of posts hating Lieberman on here today. The Obots must be all in a tizzy.

I disagree. I think Franken did what he had to do, and he wasn’t rude about it at all. Lieberman had droned on telling his lies for a full ten minutes. It was time for him to shut the fuck up. I think Franken’s rejection was a perfect response to that disgusting liar, Lieberman.

If only ALL Democratic Senators would be so honest. We could use 50 Franken’s in this senate if you ask me.

And, ZERO Lieberman’s as well.

John McCain objecting to Franken’s “rudeness?”

NOW THAT’S RICH.

McCain’s got a reputation for ripping people’s lips off!

Bwahahahahahaha!

Watch out, McCain. Franken might point out the IRONY here. And, it will be hilarious to see it happen.

I say “use ‘em or lose ‘em!
Lieberman’s dealing put the public option and Medicare buy-in on hold, at least until the Conference Committee reloads this “garbage dumpster”!
I don’t like either Franken or Lieberman, but I’m hoping this hellacious bill can be stopped!
There was a time when courtesy prevailed in the Senate, but now it is becoming as crude as the public arena, and that’s no way to run a country!

Republicans expecting elected representatives to actually read the bills before they vote yes on them so as to know what they are voting yes for… evil bastards. Wait until the people find out the republicans wanted the bill to be actually read before a vote was taken. The nerve.

Franken may be honest but he is ignorant as well as rude.

He thinks the Senate is an extension of his failed radio show where he could propagate his distortions and routinely slander people.

His ignorance is that his side needs Lieberman’s vote and the smile on Lieberman’s face was after being dissed by the idiot Franken is that there will be pay back.

Franken doesn’t belong in the Senate and won’t be there for longer than a term.

I agree with Malkin on some things, but not this particular issue. But then, I’m a real independent, not the FAUX LIEBERMAN INDEPENDENT–who’s completely dependent on corporations to make him rich.

I support single-payer national health care. I have benefitted from it all my life–from the military. I think all the bullshit talking points about Canada, blah, blah, blah are too laughable for words.

The people of this country are so propagandized by their rulers that they don’t mind spending TRILLIONS on illegitimate wars of pre-emption [Hitler would so love them!], at the very same time that they are so easily propandized into accepting their rulers’ arguments that they shouldn’t have access to health care.

And, to top it off, they don’t even mind when the rulers STEAL their money and property so that their elite friends can be made ever so much more wealthy, while they themselves starve and go hungry, live in tents and cars, lose jobs and homes.

Wow, the American people today are a DESPOT’S DREAM, aren’t they?

I expected Al Franken to be a rude, crude senator. Just what we need, another entertainer in Congress.

mountainaires: Good to see a voice of reason and truth. Americans are soooo propagandized to work against their own good. It makes the possibilities of having a real democracy in this country nil.

Indeed, wrong of Franken and his demeanor when doing it was telling.

UPDATE was so correct and continuously the “left” waters down any argument they can make by doing something worse than what they want to claim of others. What is their problem? So now, because Al Franken wants to be a rude @sshole, he makes people come to a defense of Lieberman because of his own poor action. No smarts there!

And…according to Weekly Standard and Glenn Beck covered this a few days ago…3 sources then confirming…that President Obama had Rahm send the message to Senator Nelson, that he will close Offutt AFB, US Strtegic Command, for health care
vote.

He’s using again our tax dollars, jobs and military for his political grandstanding for a vote.

This brings to mind….what won’t Obama do for his own gain?

Though Lieberman has been out front in the fight against the public option
and the Medicare buy-in, Nelson was critical of both. Now that those
provisions appear to have been stripped from the bill, Lieberman may get on
board, but Nelson’s demand that taxpayer money not be used to fund abortion
has still not been met. According to a Senate aide, the White House is now
threatening to put Nebraska’s Offutt Air Force Base on the BRAC list if
Nelson doesn’t fall into line.

Offutt Air Force Base employs some 10,000 military and federal employees in
Southeastern Nebraska. As our source put it, this is a “naked effort by Rahm
Emanuel and the White House to extort Nelson’s vote.” They are “threatening
to close a base vital to national security for what?” asked the Senate
staffer.

Indeed, Offutt is the headquarters for US Strategic Command, the successor
to Strategic Air Command, and not by accident. STRATCOM was located in the
middle of the country for strategic reasons. Its closure would be a massive
blow to the economy of the state of Nebraska, but it would also be another
example of this administration playing politics with our national security.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/12/source_dems_threaten_nelson_in_1.asp

eliza: Yes, we met Al Franken at a Dem fundraiser. He’s all about Al Franken. (Had to fly off to shoot an episode of Third Rock From the Sun). (!!!)

Malkin is right: It’s all a charade. I don’t respect anyone participating in it–Franken, Lieberman, Reid, McCain, Pelosi and on and on. Congress has become a joke. And I expecially despise O for forcing this on us in his attempt to bolster his too high, unfounded self-esteem.

I used to think Hillary should have remained in the Senate to provide some sanity and some push back to O, but even she couldn’t have brought any modicum of sanity to this nuthouse.

She was right to get out and to try to do some good as SOS.

I’ve resigned myself to the passage of this abomination of a health care bill. We will all get to suffer its side effects.

To use an anology from my experiences with medical care:

I am a person who reacts to most prescriptions I’ve been given by experiencing the entrie reange of side effects of each one. I was nearly put in a coma once by one. As usual for a small woman, I had been prescribed a dosage that had been determined on test subjects who were male and almost twice my weight. I was told by a rheumatologist that “mo one dies of arthritis, but some have died from the treatment.” It turns out I didn’t have arthritis afterall and I was able to control my symptoms with diet. I recently took myself off a daily medication that I also feel I don’t need, as I finally realized I would rather die than feel as I did under the side effects. Later I read that some people have also died from the side effects of this supposedly benign and effective drug.

That’s a long analogy, but my experience is that this “prescription” for health care will be toxic to us all. I am prepared to monitor my own health and be careful so I don’t have any type of accident, live as naturally as I can and eat right and exercise. I just pray to die a quick, sudden death so I am not forced into the healthcare system.

I feel terrible for people like my brother-in-law with Parkinson’s and my partner with a type of arthritis I can never pronounce or spell. They are trapped in this system and must fight it every day to keep going without also spending their entire life’s savings and hard earned assets.

Sorry for the typing mistakes.

Good points Diane LC!
My oldest brother died from Parkinsons and my nephew is afflicted also!
Yes, they had to fight tooth and nail for care.
How much Medicaid money is spent on alcoholics and drug addicts?
It is apparent that many hate insurance companies, but they have saved a lot of people over the years, and I don’t relish have my life in the hands of incompetent politicial appointees!

Delay until Obama and all the rest of them are out!

The people of this country are so propagandized by their rulers

I think you are close if you think Lieberman, Franken or Obama are rulers. Dead on if you could see that Lieberman, Franken and Obama are just more “brands” that we are sold… just like GM or Citibank are brands we are sold. Our rulers aren’t politicians at all, but the people who place them in power. Why can’t the senate read the bill before they pass it? Obama says they don’t need to. Reid says they don’t need to. Because the lobbyists that wrote it know what they are doing. Corporatists rule us all. What I wonder is why you can so plainly see the graft in health care and insurance, but can’t also see it in carbon? But, this is a good start. I will grant you that.

And, this special interest laden Big Pharma, Insurance, AMA bill I hope fails.

I could not believe DEMOCRATS voted against, now their Congress, their own Senator Dorgan’s amendment for reimportations of drugs.

You know, Obama’s now infamous empty political rhetoric where he claims “thanks, no thanks Pharma”. You know “thanks, no thanks Canada and NAFTA” …”don’t’ worry, just campaign rhetoric”

Didn’t they claim they couldn’t do anything when they were the minority…….now we’re majority, but just a minor majoirty……..ok, now we have the largest majority, but we are so in the tank for special interests, we say “no thanks”.

President Obama writes a new health reform prescription
By Dana Milbank
Wednesday, December 16, 2009

On the campaign trail, Barack Obama vowed to take on the drug industry by
allowing Americans to import cheaper prescription medicine. “We’ll tell the
pharmaceutical companies ‘thanks, but no, thanks’ for the overpriced drugs
– drugs that cost twice as much here as they do in Europe and Canada,” he
said back then.

On Tuesday, the matter came to the Senate floor — and President Obama
forgot the “no, thanks” part. Siding with the pharmaceutical lobby, the
administration successfully fought against the very idea Obama had
championed.

“It’s got to be a little awkward,” said Sen. Tom Carper (D-Del.).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121504196.html

And, Big Insurance and Pharma must have been just waiting for this latest vs of the Senate bill, because I saw a fresh…well done…and paid for tv ad this morning to “past this Senate bill”. Hubby and I couldn’t believe it.

Anyone who votes for this bill is, as the two Senators from New Jersey showed this week in voting against reimporation, are in bed, like Obama, and the special interests. And if they want to complain about Lierberman…they better start complaining about Menendez, Lautenberg and others.

comment stuck in spam filter
please free me

It’s amazing to read what people post depending upon whose ox they want to gore. First of all, anything written by Michelle Malkin has to be taken with a GIGANTIC grain of salt. It wouldn’t hurt to also look for and read some FACTS before opening mouth and inserting foot. When Franken (D) does anything on the floor, he is labeled a “clown” and “rude.”
Anything a (R) says or does is just okey-dokey.

What really happened:
http://mediamatters.org/research/200912180008

Sorry to point this out, but you just gored Malkin. That must be your appointed ox to gore. I never read her much or when I did, liked her much, but when a person is right about something it doesn’t do the truth any good to say right is not right because of who spoke it. All this posturing in the Senate is a charade.

Both houses of Congress have become a joke, with both parties perpetuating a silly middle school school style of clicque warfare,

Yeah, great diplomacy here. I’m no Lieberman fan by any stretch but the sensitivity of these initiatives’s we’re dealing with are now measured in nanoseconds and fractions of an inch. Have we resigned ourselves that Lieberman has no value at all? The 60th vote? If not Mr. Franken closed that door. Emotion is good but not when were dealing with issues that need a feeler gauge to map progress. I had hoped that at least a draw bridge was being built here as Lieberman again is the closest we have that the Olympia Snowe’s and the Susan Collin’s would listen too and you have 80 million listening to them. 80 million of anything is huge. What possible scenario did this event purport to enhance and/or advance other than additional animosity or a fleeting moment of feel good? We shall see….Seymour

Diana, I’m so tired of this it is not even funny any more. I just reread some of the Anti-Federalist papers recently. Amazing to think those men knew, over two hundred years ago, this would happen.

I have no idea how to fix this mess. However, I think a good place to start is term limits for these idiots -and I am being quite kind when I use the term “idiots”. It is also a label that fits Franken quite well.

What is going to compound the posturing is the “Louisiana Purchase”. Being the 59th senator in the head count is worth nothing… being the 60th is like winning the lotto. Here is the little secret nobody thought about… any one of them can be the 60th. Just come up with a reason not to vote for it after they are already at 60… instant 60th voter. Wait until the senate kiddies figure out how that works. Nothing will get done. Absolutely nothing. Their greed may save us all.

Lieberman had been alloted 10 minutes. Franken jumped on him within seconds of his going over the time (something all Congresspeople do all the time) and had the gall to deny the extension all Congresspeople ask for (and receive, with rare exceptions).
This was not about anything noble on Freakin’s part. This was grandstanding, look how mighty I am, aren’t I special, acting out and was uncalled for. He needs to learn decorum from his betters (that would be just about anyone in the Senate).

Big Insurance and Pharma must have been just waiting for this latest vs of the Senate bill, because I saw a fresh…well done…and paid for tv ad this morning to “past this Senate bill”.

Yes, the lobbyists already had the bill worked out. now the drama is in counting to 60. If this were universal health care and it cut out insurance companies, I would be for it. The truth is we care more for stray dogs in this country than we do for stray people. Nothing they are doing in Washington right now will remedy that. This is about protecting pharma from cheaper imported drugs and protecting hospital and insurance corporations. Everything Obama has done so far is about protecting corporations. He doesn’t give a whit about people, except for himself. Being a narcissist, he makes the perfect corporate tool.

And, while I wait for my other comment that’s stuck in the spam filter to appear, let me also add.

I couldn’t believe the truth came out in a statement from our two big Unions pushing for Obama, Seiu and Aflcio. Yep, remember that tax on “cadillac plans” that many assumed the Unions would be upset over? No no no. It seems, as we figured, but they just tipped their hand, they wanted the public option a n d the ” with a tax on high-end insurance plans ” so they can use that as their excuse to cancel the health care plans they current buy, so all their union employees can go on the government plan.

You know, I was utterly amazed when after the 2006 elections that the best the Dems could do in the face of a GOP internal collapse was act exactly like the GOP.

I’m no Joe Lieberman fan, but this whole “fuck joe lieberman” thing is indicitive of how unready for prime time the Dems are. Libs and dems act as if they are in permanent majority status. Imagine when the Senate returns to GOP hands and Inhofe told Barbara Boxer to sit down and shut up. The brick of shit that Al Franken, Standard, Ledon etc. will be immense.

It’s one thing to bring up procedural delays and another to insult a fellow Senator, even if it’s Joe Lieberman.

WTF happened to the dem party I once knew? Apparently taken over by think skinned selfish brats who think the ends ALWAYS trumps the means.

HAha, do a web search on Social Security Privatization nuclear option. The Dems and all it’s surrogates, Dailykooks, TPM, literally crapped an immense brick when the GOP trotted out the reconciliation process to privatize Social Security. “The filibuster is an American tradition!” Josh Marshall and Kos yelled out!

Now, when the Dem leadership is so pathetic that they can’t even bargain and compromise and form coalitions, it’s all about “my way or the highway”, which always comes down to 50+1 as being the basis for good government.

Once again, no forward thinking, no thought that what happens when the GOP retakes congress. It’s all about the ends ALWAYS justifying the means.

Yes, “by any means necessary” is the same thing as totalitarianism. Why is “by any means necessary” good and the Taliban bad? Both are in essence the same. The 60′s radicals grew up and became the man. Oh yes, they took left turns all the way instead of right ones. Still they wound up in the exact same place as the very thing they were against. Why they can’t see that is beyond me.

reread some of the Anti-Federalist papers

Sounds like a good idea. What goes around comes around.

I’m sick of all these jackasses, but frankenly speaking Leiberman had it coming. He’s been prancing around all prima donna for a while now and someone finally called him out using the rules appropriately in the process. Even better it was a freshman that they hoped would never make it into the Senate.

And for McCain to get all aghast is real nice theater too. He claims he’s never seen such incivility in the Senate…then I say he’s forgotten too much.

Obama’s neophyte status glows brightly these days.

regarding the GOP attempt to have the Sander’s amendment read outloud:
“but, I for one, would like to hear what’s in the bill.”

I have no problem ‘hearing’ a bill, but what I noticed was after it was being read the GOP who insisted on it being read…left. I’ve read many bills and yes, Rep. Conyers is right there are many passages that would require lawyers to follow. But all of that is a smokescreen each and every time we hear it either from GOP or Dems.

The mention of how many pages something has is intended to give the impression it is a vast ganglion of confusion yet they never tell you that the writing in this bill…is theirs!

Mark up committees are a fascinating thing.
Take the time to watch one when they occasionally appear on CSPAN. I’ve seen a couple and all the wording is painstakingly hashed out by the staffers from all the reps and senators. There are rarely many reps or senators present when this is going on.

And if that was all the ‘reading’ was, a lazy sort of filibuster where instead of pulling your own Jefferson Smith and reading the telephone book, the Magna Carta, etc…you get the clerks to do so until Sander’s pulled his amendment, then these guys just got paid tax dollars to pass the buck again.

Bills don’t get to be 2000 pages without someone reading the bill in just about every office. I just called 3 staffers at 3 different Representatives offices, 1 Dem, 2 GOP. They all agreed it wouldn’t be very accurate to say nobody read the bills.

Sorry for those who adore the GOP these days, but they really suck. The Democrats REALLY suck and you have to be pretty pathetic to look more inept than them. But from where sit the GOP have nothing to offer but the same old broken system that will gauge you when you need medical care. The Dems want a nurse in every home.

Happy Holidays America, your government is still screwed.

spot on

Sorry for those who adore the GOP these days, but they really suck. The Democrats REALLY suck and you have to be pretty pathetic to look more inept than them.

Exactly yes. Both are the same right now. Voting for either one and expecting to oppose the other is a fools game. We won’t be a republic again unless and until we get a third party. That alone can break this dynamic. If, it can at all be broken.

“Republicans expecting elected representatives to actually read the bills before they vote yes on them so as to know what they are voting yes for… evil bastards. Wait until the people find out the republicans wanted the bill to be actually read before a vote was taken. The nerve.”

Funny, they never want that for their bills, and they didn’t stick around to listen to it. Its sad that people allow this political theater to take place while they pay for it at the same time.

GOP did want the Patriot Act read out loud, it is important legislation for sure. Nor the Military Tribunals Act of 1996, FISA fixes, etc.

This grandstanding is another example of politics of substance. Both sides need to get their asses kicked. They are wasting your money.

If you are saying democrat and republican are the same thing, I am with you. They are mirror images… opposites but exactly the same thing.
Neither works for us.

I can’t stand Liberman and feel the bills need read BUT where where the people demanding reading the call to war with Iraq or the medicare advantage plan or where bush funnel money from to to fund the wars? I do NOT approve of the healthcare plan but both sides being such hypocrites about everything doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in our goernment processes!

I’ve seen her once or maybe twice on TV and that was enough to realize that she’s just another right winger trying to emulate Rush Limbaugh. With the same amount of accuracy, which is zero. If you read her article about this “incident” you would also realize that not one word is true; she’s just trying to get some publicity by stirring up a pot that doesn’t exist. In other words, when the facts don’t show it, she’s like many other web-posters – they just make shit up.

Why don’t they put blame on Obama /Raham/axelrod/Jarretts influence on the dems to just shut up and follow their lead and then blame, say Liberman who is willing to take this and ignore the real reasons why this bill sucks? what about all the rest of them are they just wringing their little hands and saying the script they have been handed by the administration ,like they have no brains or maybe balls.

I despise that little, petty man. He and 0zer0 are cut from the same cloth; SNL is his experience to be a Senator? Oh, and a little talk, talk, Bush bashing on his former little TV show…what was it? Sundance channel? Independent channel? Probably seen by 50 people. He’s the joke.

Franken is a disgrace. He stole that election and I hope the people of MN wake up before he has a chance to do it again. He’s a disgusting thief and has no business being in public office. Little Stuart Smalley didn’t even bother to run for another office first. BTW, that character fits him to a tee. Smarmy a**hole.

Al Franken was absolutely embarrassing up there. I can’t believe he is behaving like that – or rather, I guess I can believe, because he’s one of those partisan loony leftists who would take a gun and shoot down Republicans if he could. I don’t care if you don’t like what Lieberman has to say. Let him finish one more minute. I hear people saying here he’s an insurance industry shill, but the fact is, Joe is representing a more moderate demographic, and his recalcitrance on certain issues is one of the few things keeping this horrible bill from flying through. Instead, the health care bill is being bogged down thanks, in part, to Joe.

So I don’t care what Joe’s motives are…any blockage on that bill makes me happy.

I also very much loved McCain sticking up for Joe and how strong he is. Obama would never stand up for someone like that. Obama is a wuss.

isnt bribery illegal? paying off people or strong arming them to support a bill no one wants,makes this so called president look like the thug he is. i heard someone on fox say this bill is unconstitutional and can be overturned by the courts. that is if obama doesnt bribe or threaten the judges. KILL THE BILL.

Sometimes opinion is “just making shit up” too. I don’t agree with your assessment of Malkin and your claim that what her accuracy is just that…your lopsided opinion. Hardly the “truth”. Malkin has been on top of a lot of issues I care about…this one is not at the top of my list as I have no respect for Lieberman and certainly not that clown, Franken.

You’re sure Frankin stole the election? Many think it was a case of a theft narrowly averted. Republicans did everything possible to hang onto that seat, then to delay the seating of the winner.

Standard/

Get ready its coming… The only person to be tried for treason will be Obama.

MARK MY WORDS

If it’s so laden with hidden benefits and secret payoffs for the the AMA, the health insurance industry, etc, I wonder why those special interests are fighting like hell to keep it from being passed?

Minnesota is stacked with Democrats – there is no way a Republican could steal an election – but Democrats can – I’m sure Rahm showed then how to do it.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Evidence-of-Republican-Fra-by-E-Nelson-081110-788.html

Insurance companies save nobody. Medical professionals save lives.

Ask any doctor how he or she feels about the insurance companies they have to deal with.

Ask which they think gets more in the way of the doctor’s patient-focused practice of medicine–the federal government, or the insuance companies?

Well as someone who works for a Doctor and files the necessary papers for reembursement, I can tell you that the last freakin insurance I want is a government ran one. You said to “ask anyone” and I’m telling you, it’s the government insurance that we run into trouble with all the time. HOw would you like to do your work for 3 months and not get paid? It happens all the time with us with medicare. We can wait up to 3 months for our money. Then they can also turn around and deny our services. The government insurance is crap, and only those who have never had a really good plan will say that it’s good. I have good insurance now, I pay for it and I sure hell do not want anyone, ANYONE telling me what kind of insurance I can have and what I can’t. I feel for those who don’t have insurance, I know, I went without for 8 years, but don’t begin to tell me that I have to give up my plan to satisfy those who don’t have any. Surely there is a way to get those people insurance without turning our healthcare on it’s ear and ruin it for those of us who have worked our asses off to get the good insurance. Who gives you or anyone else that right?

That “clown” is probably one of the most knowledgeable and hardest working senators in that chamber. (Although I admit that may not seem like much.) Frankly, there’s too many people, even on this site, that have no respect for the facts and just “make shit up.”

There’s a difference between stating an opinion and trying to pass “made-up shit” as factual. The repubs in the senate, especially those who get permission from Rush Limbaugh, are especially good at this. Then they get all incensed at the “rudeness” when they get called on it.

I’ve learned long ago that the old saying about GW Bush; “how do you know he’s lying?” “His lips are moving,” applies to a very large portion of the repubs and a helluva lot of dems, as well.

They aren’t.

But Blago got corruption charges and Barry, doing 10x worse is just doing “the Chicago Way”.

What state was Blago Governor of? Ohhh, right.

Agree 100%.

This will be nearly impossible to undo once it is enacted. I don’t trust this attitude of enact anything and we’ll fix it later. That is crap. It is not going into effect for several years — take the time to do it right.

Obama not only misread his mandate but his arrogance made him pushed health care first because he was advised if he didn’t ram it through early, it was over. Foolish advice.

I look at this differently.

If he had made jobs priority one and put people back to work instead of pushing cap and trade et al, the American people would have been singing his praises right now and offered up their trust. Then he probably could have passed more legislation later. Not anymore.

Clearly, his objective was not to help Americans but to bail out the corporate interests who put him in office and to do a giveaway for insurance companies with this health care boondoggle. No wonder his support is eroding.

yes truthtelling007 & Docelder

…and bribery…

and his wife is a shill for big pharma.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/10/hbc-90005996

I heard today, that he did not do this on his own. He received instructions from Reid.

It’s interesting to me. If this suppose to be the “deliberative body”, what’s the rush? I know the answer, it just makes the senate look very bad.

I agree 100%.
And think of the alternative: Norm Freaking Coleman.
He used his position as Chairman and Ranking Member of the Senate’s Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to conceal acts by Halliburton which has cost taxpayers billions.
He has long been in bed with Ted Stevens from whose pac he received large donations and from whom he received an introduction to Veco, whose donations he refused to return even after they pled guilty to defrauding the IRS.
He is in bed with Nasser Kazeminy an Iranian born lobbyist, head of NJK Holdings an investment firm, from whom his wife received a nice job and he large donations and gifts, trips to the Bahamas, house remodeling, etc, which he failed to report while simultaneously awarding Kazeminy contracts. He is under investigation for corruption relating to this.
After he was elected but before assuming his senate seat, he used the power of his yet-to-be-assumed U.S. Senate office to try to leverage a presidential pardon for convicted money launderer and Tom Petters associate Frank Vennes Jr. And two years after that, Coleman wrote yet another pardon plea on Vennes’ behalf.
He voted for the bailout, and then whined about CEOs golden parachutes: yet he did nothing to disallow them as part of the bailout.

Personally, I think we’re watching theater in the round. So does Russ Feingold:

On Tuesday, Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) pointed the finger at President Barack Obama, rather than Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), for the disappearance of the Medicare buy-in and public option from the Senate health reform bill.

“This bill appears to be legislation that the president wanted in the first place, so I don’t think focusing it on Lieberman really hits the truth,” Feingold said, as quoted at The Hill.

Feingold said the standards for the bill “could have been higher. I certainly think a stronger bill would have been better in every respect.”

Feingold is someone who’s always impressed me as a standup guy. He may be left of many but he tells it like he sees it. And he thinks Lieberman is being used as the whipping boy, deliberately.

This is an Administration who practices the art of distraction. So, if the anger is so, so great against Lieberman, why hasn’t he been stripped of his seniority, his committee spot?

Why? Because if Lieberman is in the pocket of the industry, so is this President and all his merry men.

We’re being played by Chicago conmen.

Had another post gobbled. Retrieve please.

Thanx.

Just curious. Did you actually watch the above video of Lie berman and Franken? Franken did absolutely nothing rude, disrespectful, or insulting to Lie berman. He simply said, your 10 minutes is up and raised his hands as if to say, sorry, but them’s the rules.

Your post is exactly what I mean by making shit up.

Given your logic, your conclusion of events is accurate; but actually, in fact, you are wrong. Did you ever hear of the concept called “past practice”? In law, “past practice” can be construed to be as binding on the parties, as “law.” Given that how things are done in the past can be legally enforceable in a court of law; certainly past practice can be expected to be the applicable standard of conduct on the floor of the Senate.

I saw the same video you did and thought Franken was being a complete and total jerk. It was in his tone of voice, and the abrupt “I object.” Obnoxious.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I’m going to do it anyway, because this constant lying and ignoring the facts seems to be at a pandemic level. The great 0 is particularly adept at it.

Here’s another example of making shit up:
Courtesy of Hannity, this time.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912180026

What happens, I think, is that people read the headline, such as the one at the top of this thread, saying Franken was Rude, and never considering the source, many just assume that it’s right. Particularly if its something they agree with. Why bother to check out if it’s right or wrong, as long as it fits my agenda?

BTW, Media Matters is one of the few organizations that actually fact checks all these pronouncements. I suspect they’re extremely busy these days.

IMO, many Obama(care)bots have landed on this thread.

Yes, Franken is a self-important blowhard–he’ll be getting his junior-senator-arse torn a new one soon (and I hope it’s on youtube).

Lieberman? I don’t agree with him much of the time but I believe that he follows his heart and isn’t afraid to stand up for his beliefs (even when taken aside by the bamster pre-election on the senate floor because he backed Obama). As for being in bed with the insurance companies–the insurance companies make a 3% profit. Please show me how they are rolling in the dough with those profits if you disagree. In our (still) capitalist society, corporations TRY to earn a profit and they keep people employed as long as they do. (Where those jobs going to come from, the government?) Lieberman’s state is home to many health insurance companies – his “constituents”. As long as there are multiple insurance companies to choose from, people can punish their insurers by switching if they don’t get good service. When was the last time you were able to go to a competitor of the DMV when you weren’t happy?

Sanders didn’t have the right to withdraw the bill after it was being read but, hey, what do rules mean anymore? Mandatory health care isn’t in the constitution either so who cares about 200 years of procedure in the Senate?

As for the Repubs–they are not trying to force a vote for healthcare on Christmas Eve, that’s a Harry Reid “Christmas Present” for the “people”. The “people”, by the way, are overwhelmingly AGAINST Obamacare but, hey, it’s not like the people know what’s good for them like Nancy, Harry and Barry do.

The Repubs are trying to slow things down. The actual bill has not escaped the secretive conference room of Harry Reid and his hand-picked buddies. The Repubs were never invited to help draft the bill and the Dems are ramrodding this mess down our throats at break neck speed.

As for reading the bill and it being a waste of time? Well, right now the Senate would not be in session if it weren’t for Harry so don’t tell me how the “Repubs” are wasting money actually having the bill read–that’s a red herring. Oh, and the House Dems LIED about what was in their bill–so having it read ALOUD would do everyone a big huge favor. So what’s the problem with reading it? There will be a tax increase after this thing passes and yet the benefit of that tax increase will not go into effect until 2013. Yes, collect premiums (more or less) for a few years before being able to reap any benefits. Who else but the GOVERNMENT could come up with anything like that? (Talk about stacking the CBO books so you show this monstrosity to be deficit neutral!)

So, please. Repubs–stall as much as you can with whatever you can within the procedures. Make those 60 senators go home to their ANGRY constituents for the holiday season before they vote on this power play. The constituents may even be meaner than, dare I say, Rahm Emanuel!

Media Matters as in George Soros?

Here, here!

These folks are not the JFK style Dems of yesteryear. This group wants to bring the failed socialist/communist government systems to America by hook or by crook. Watch.

Media Matters is in the hands of George Soros, so referring to this group as truthtellers and anything they say is gospel is a fallacy. Wake Up!

Not everyone in the world has a George Soros obsession.

Sorry, but you’re making shit up.

Im sure the Republicans asked for it to be read cause they are to lazy and stupid to go and read it themselves.

By that, I mean you’re stating your opinion, which everyone is entitled to do; however you’re not entitled to present your opinion as fact. That’s exactly what drives people nuts. Kindly back up your “facts” with links that prove your point – and not to someone else’s opinion. Thanks.

What where all you Franken bashers saying when people are screaming YOU LIE at the president during his speech? Joe had 10 mins to say what he needed to say and he didnt, he asked for more time and Franken said no.

Republicans have used every tactic to slow down any health care debate, including trying to block it from even being discussed on the floor. Remember that? What 3 weeks ago? They didnt want it even talked about, so if Al wants to cut him off when his time is up, so be it.

Stop whining.

No way in the entire world would anyone think that after the count was in, ballots should be allowed to be counted from someone’s car trunk. Everytime you turned around, they were coming up with “misplaced” ballots. That is not the way an honest election is run and you know it. If the Republicans had rolled over on this they would have been complicit. He’s a fake, a fraud and a thief.

Who–if not the special interests–is funding this guy’s $10 million television blitz? We’ve all seen the ads.

http://www.bermanexposed.org/node/250

Yes, armymom. I know exactly what you mean. In the early days of Medicare, we could figure down to the penny what reimbursement would be…now I think it’s pretty much a crap shoot. Further, we often received compensation within 45 days. One of my doctors waited 9 months for payments…$80k is a lot of receivables. It has consistently gotten worse and will be impossible if they make this bigger.

Yes, I often made that comment about Bush as well…the origin so far as I know comes from 12 steps referring to addicts…as I believe GWB is (untreated) and all of congress as well…addicted to power and money. I don’t remember a worse bunch in congress. I can’t even think of one who could command respect.

Again, your opinion. In my POV, it was rude and uncalled for…just a sad petty power play.

Well, that’s obvious. Here though he’s the devil incarnate so you’re not likely to get any takers.
I did watch the exchange with your wunderkind and Lieberman. Everyone has their own version apparently of what constitutes manners. In mine, he was rude.

I’m in spam again too. Fix please.

Yes, nobama. We do seem to be having more argumentative bots lately. I never understand why they think they can come here and change minds? I certainly gave up way back when on Huff & Puff when it became clear their minds were made up. We aren’t uninvolved people on this blog. We follow the news, look at everything going on and come to our conclusions. Attacks saying we’re lying, etc., don’t really matter much.

We were in front of our televisions screaming the same thing. He was lying. If he didn’t know he was lying then he was just stupid.

Agreed.
GOP are spiteful do-nothings. Democrats are spineless do-nothings. At lease Al Franken brightened my day by standing up to Lieberman – the Senator from Aetna.

Yes, perhaps they are illiterate.

Do you dispute the facts as presented by Media Matters in the 2 links I have given?

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912180026

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912180008

MMFA was founded by David Brock, a former repub who, apparently wanted to repent for his sins as the consumate right wing liar.

George Soros has nothing to do with MMFA; does not contribute to them, has not contributed, and neither does he tell them what to write. I suspect he has better things to do.

And there are plenty of links to back that up.

Anyway, this fixation on George Soros seems a bit over the top. Why aren’t people criticizing all the right wing billionaires that are actually DIRECTLY funding think tanks, right wing web sites, etc. But that’s OK, I guess.

What is UP with the bots here today? Is Axelrod paying you guys overtime? Strange.

You’re absolutely right. I also have elderly patients that have told me that if they knew how bad their medicare was going to be, they’d never went along with the government of taking their money and getting crap insurance in return. I know personally that my husband has paid over 80,000 into medicare and that’s just from one job. He’s held two most of his life. We’d love to have our money back and be able to get our own insurance, instead of being stuck with medicare.

I get so tired of people saying “well you older folks sure like your medicare and it’s government run. Hell no they don’t like it but they’re stuck with it. How’s about the government pay back those patients with all they paid in and let them get their own insurance. People take medicare because they have paid into for years and unfortunately have to either take it or be out all of the money they’ve paid into it for years. I have to laugh when I hear the younger generation act as though old people are taking medicare for free. It’s been far from free and it sucks. I dread the day I have to be on it. And if the government will pay me back my portion that I”ve paid into it, I’ll be glad to go get my own coverage. All we freakin need is more government run insurance. I say hell no. ANd that includes the “single payer” issue. ANd I won’t even get started on medicaid. I guess it’s okay if that’s all you can get, but it also sucks. When did we start lowering our standards in this country?

So John McCain has never seen anything like Al Franken objecting to Joe Lieberman asking for additional time? On October 10, 2002, John McCain objected to giving Minnesota Senator Mark Dayton 30 seconds to finish his remarks. When Sen. Robert Byrd stepped in to try to smooth things over, his time expired, and he asked for a few moments to finish, and McCain objected to a few seconds for Sen. Byrd to finish his remarks. McCain must have a very short memory. Not only has it been done at least twice during McCain’s tenure in the Senate–McCain’s the one who’s done it!

Sounds like kindergarten to me. “he did it too” “he hit me first” and my all time favorite one “I didn’t know”. Pretty much covers most of Washington DC politicians right now. Jackasses, all of them.

I agree Docelder, it sounds like grade school. I’m sure the left had to run and do some digging to find the 2 examples of McCain having cut off a democrat previously. This tit for tat stuff is immature and needs to stop.

Good to see a familiar name!

Just like pre-election, these bots are taking their assigned scripts out to the moderates/independents (who are abandoning Obama and this congress post haste). Unfortunately, they’re ill-informed and (IMO) too lazy to actually check things out for themselves.

I’m not exactly sure who you’re addressing here. If this is in regard to my post, what “fact” are you having a problem with exactly?

That Franken is a self-important blowhard or that he’ll be torn a new one? LOL

That we are in a capitalist society? That companies are supposed to make a profit? That companies (back in the day) employ people to help them remain profitable?

That the DMV doesn’t have competition and can suck if it wants to?

That the senate rules have been in force for 200 years but was broken by Sanders withdrawal of the reading?

What exactly is your problem with s l o w i n g this runaway train down? If it affected only YOU, I wouldn’t have a strong opinion. This bill will effect everyone, will effect the future generations to come and this rush for a vote before Christmas is just a transparent effort to get it done before the Senators have to go home to face their angry constituents who are approximately 61% against this monumental dung heap.

Now, if you don’t believe me, do your own homework. Put in a little more effort than simply watching MSNBC.

Tried to block it from even being discussed? Do you even understand that the floor “debate” meant it was already on its way to passage because the votes were obtained (with whatever payoff or threat was required). How does it feel to you to have your taxpayer money being spent by our government officials to buy votes?

IALT – I thought I read that they got Obama to write an exemption for SEIU cadillac plans – and that’s why they stopped squawking….?

If you’ve watched mark-ups and read so many bills then you’re either slow or lying.

No one could read the Magna Carta to slow this thing down, the Repubs don’t have enough votes for that. On the other hand, they are entitled to a reading of the bill–the true meaning of “unanimous consent”. The liberal Sanders bill would in no way gain passage and, yes, it was a delay tactic. Shame, shame, shame on them. Now, what is the big hurry? Why do they need to vote by Christmas Eve on a bill of such monumental importance for everyone? (Hint: Soundbite from Reid/Pelosi about their “Christmas Present” for the PEOPLE!) Why can’t they wait until after the holidays? (Hint: Because the more people know about Obamacare, the more they hate it!) Why is the bill being drafted (probably still as I write) in closed quarters with few who’ve “read it”? (Yes SOME people have read the bill–but few of those actually voting for it.) Why do they do that? Because Reid doesn’t want anyone actually reading the bill (least of all the populace this was intended to HELP).

Now, tell me…are you still making a living? Are things tight for you? At least 10% of the people know not to spend money they don’t have–after all they are choosing between keeping their cars or their homes right now. Is this thing deficit neutral? NO WAY. The bill is designed to increase revenues on the front end for a few years before the benefits will be available (approximately 2013–when Obama, bless his little heart, thinks he’ll have been safely re-elected). Now that’s dirty accounting.

You can fool some of the people some of the time…

but not usually at NoQuarter.

You quote from my Congressman Conyers was simply the icing on this cake. Good ole Conyers’ wife is about to go to jail. Unfortunately, he doesn’t appear to have two brain cells left to rub together anymore (and when he did, he was a run-of-the-mill shyster himself). This is precious that you find Conyers your standard-bearer. Low bar, that.

Whatever happened to Patrick Fitzgerald….?

yes, I was just thinking, what happened to the new comments section, in which when several people don’t like a comment, they flag it, and it disappears? I was starting to look forward to that – less hijacking and endless repetition….

ONE person called out “you lie”, and you could hardly hear it. Now it’s multiple people screaming…..? Did you hear this during a game of “telephone”…?

My brother and father are beneficiaries of military benefits–they are the best. (Why shouldn’t they be?) On the other hand, the American people cannot afford to provide that level of healthcare to everyone in this country–there isn’t enough money to go around. Medicare and Medicaid are broke already (or will be in 2017)–both of which are government benefits (which are a far cry from military benefits).

We are financially in bad shape in this country already and simply cannot afford to tax the remaining working stiffs any more.

No, the government needs to stay out of my medical well being and stick with what they are constitutionally entitled to mandate upon the citizens.

Apart from my strong disagreement of your opinion I appreciate your military service–thank you!

eurogirl said:

“Say what you will, but Joe Lieberman is doing exactly what Obama and Rahm Emanuel want him to do.”

Absolutely agree. And Russ Feingold said the same thing. You want to point fingers? Point them at the WH and his advisors. This is not unlike the financial reform bill that was gutted before it ever left committee. You’re telling me the POTUS can’t work the phones, twist some arms to get what he wants, what he demands? And why not use the bully pulpit and speak directly to the public in clear, specific terms?

If the President wanted to, he would have done it already. So far, he’s consistently covered the backs of Wall St. and the healthcare/pharma industry.

He does not have the backs of the American public. He has the backs of his own financiers.

And people are beginning to realize that.

One Christ-killer going after another at Christmastime. Franken maes me sad the SS ran out of Zyklon-B before they could finish the job. Merry Christmas, democrart turds! We flush you stinking traitors soon…into the sewer.

What a cheery holiday message! Christ killer? What are you back in the Middle Ages?

And your comment about gassing is absolutely dispicable.

Obamabot turds inserting antisemitism into this thread to smear opponents of this bill. I’m having flashbacks from the “racist” comments inserted here pre-election. Hmmmm…suppose our dear friends are back with their same tricks?

Admin, do you think you could remove this moron’s post?

People in this country used to be able to express their opinions freely. However, the anonymity of the internet has given the weaker a chance to call people names, insult, or make threats they would never think of saying or doing in person.

The proliferation of right wing savage radio attacks has produced a back lash of left wingers who are doing the same – basically in defense. And this has been compounded by the internet.

Unless some manner of civility is restored, this country will eventually split itself apart. (If it already hasn’t.)

Perpetual liars continuously keep repeating the same things over and over until the lie becomes accepted.

It’s becoming increasingly difficult to decide which liar to believe.

Sorry, but when Carl Levin has to insert himself as the peacemaker, then ya, you fucked up IMO.

Unless some manner of civility is restored, this country will eventually split itself apart. (If it already hasn’t.)

Gee, my cheek itches…think I’ll scratch it with a certain finger in donjo’s general direction…

hokma…

I might not like Franken’s politics, but I give him credit for running and entering the arena.

Most of the other talking heads care more for their wallets and rating than us…..

You poor thing.

Do you really want to just ignore the truth? The Dem’s tried to claims all the citizens at the health care town halls in opposition to their legislation were paid by insurance.

The Dem’s tried to claim the Tea Party movers were all paid by lobbyists and when that didn’t work…..

The Dem’s keep using Big Pharmma, Insurance, Doctors as their political tools, saying what ever they want when they already assured private deals and they agreed to spend hundreds of billions on ads to promote the health care bill…as they rushed out a new one I’m sure you saw “support this senate bill”

It’s all been reported. But if you wish to ignore this fine.

Now, the insurance companies are getting their way with big pharma and the rest. No public option, but mandates for everyone to buy.

They were using the same trick like Obama did on everything else. Use the language, but make private assurances “don’t worry, it’s campaign rhetoric”.

And that’s all you bough hObama.

Thanks for proving my point.

Sorry but…Obama gave us the fist bump and the convenient scratch. Leadership.

I ran to Al Franken as I bolted through Miami Airport to catch a connecting flight last year. He seemed like a nice guy. He actually took the time shake my hand an talk to me for a minute or two. Even though he was running in the pother direction to catch his flight.

As a Senator the guy seems to have some balls and conviction. Something in short supply in the senate.

Media Matters receives funding from Democracy Alliance which is in turn funded by Soros.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/16/AR2006071600882_pf.html
I don’t suggest every posting on Media Matters is false: but it certainly has a strong prog slant even as does very right wing media.
Before I would believe anything posted there, I would compare it against other sources.

oops, “even as does very right wing media” have a strong right wing slant