[VIDEO UPDATE] Larry Johnson on CNN
By Bronwyn's Harbor on December 30, 2009 at 2:28 PM in Current Affairs
HERE IS THE VIDEO of Larry Johnson on CNN this afternoon:
Earlier: Shortly, we will have both video and a transcript of Larry Johnson’s afternoon interview on CNN, during the 2:00 p.m. hour. Larry was also on CNN’s American Morning at 7:00 a.m. ET today. We won’t have video of that appearance, but we did get the CNN transcript:
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: It’s disturbing news to say the least, the father of the alleged Christmas bomber warned the CIA about his son, but that vital information was never acted upon. Why eight years after 9/11 was U.S. intelligence unable to connect the dots? Joining us from Delaware is former homeland security inspector general, Clark Kent Ervin; and in Florida, former counterterrorism official for the State Department, Larry Johnson.
We’ll get to the issue of connecting the dots in just a second.
But, Larry, let me ask you for your reaction for the news moments ago from Amsterdam, that Dutch officials are going to put into use the so-called backscatter or millimeter wave imaging machines for all passengers destined for the United States?
LARRY JOHNSON, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: That’s good news. It should have been done a long time ago. As I said before, we’ve known about the threat of these al Qaeda operatives, being able to bring bombs on planes for 15 years. We’ve had the ability it to do the technology, at least some of it. It’s not fool-proof.
But to put both trace and bulk detectors on board at passenger screening checkpoints, it wasn’t done. It wasn’t done after 9/11. And there’s no excuse for not doing it.
I think that the question of an intelligence failure really is irrelevant, because you know what, if you have the right security procedures in place, it doesn’t matter whether you have an intelligence failure, that those systems will prevent the threat. That’s the — that’s the key point here, John.
ROBERTS: All right. And in talking about those intelligence systems, Clark Kent Ervin, let’s go to you here, many people cannot believe that eight years after 9/11, when all the talk post-9/11 and the 9/11 Commission was all about a failure to connect the dots, they’re still not connecting the dots.
Are people right to say, what the heck is going on here?
CLARK KENT ERVIN, FMR. HOMELAND SECURITY INSPECTOR GENERAL: That’s exactly right, John. I’m one of those people who can’t believe it.
In this instance, the suspect’s own father, and not just some guy off the street, but a respected Nigerian banker, we now know at least a couple times to our embassy, talked to at least two agencies, the State Department and the Central Intelligence Agency, followed that up with written communications, with telephone calls, and still, that wasn’t enough in the government’s judgment to get the suspect on the selectee list at a minimum. That list, about 14,000 people work have at least subjected him to additional scrutiny at the airport and presumably the device attached to his leg would have been discovered at that time.
I’d go further, though, and to say, if we know this much information about someone, his name ought to have been on the no-fly list. The government has to get away from this notion that a person has to specifically threaten the aviation system when we know al Qaeda remains fixated on the aviation system.
ROBERTS: Yes, Larry, post-9/11, and you, of course, know this as well, that, you know, the whole talk was about synthesizing information, about sharing, about talking to people. So, you had so many different pieces of information. You had the CIA knew that al Qaeda was trying to train some, quote, “Nigerian operative” to go to the United States, you had the warnings from this fellow’s father at the embassy in Abuja, Nigeria, and then you had the fact that he had a two-year visa to enter the United States.
If you had synthesized that information, do you suddenly go — ding, we got a problem here?
JOHNSON: Perhaps. But, John, it’s not the CIA’s fault. Let’s be clear about that, number one. It’s not even clear that the CIA had the information about the al Qaeda efforts to use somebody from Nigeria. That may have been a signal intercepted at NSA.
The organization that was put together after 9/11 to fuse all this information is the National Counterterrorism Center, NCTC. CIA, that responsibility was taken away from CIA.
So, if you’re a case officer out in Abuja, Nigeria, and you get this father that comes in and says, “Hey, my son is a radical,” CIA should be blamed if his father walked in and said, “Hey, my son is wearing a t-shirt that says “Proud graduate of the Obama bin Laden terrorist training camp” and he’s got exploding underwear and he’s getting ready to fly to Detroit.” If that kind of information the CIA had and didn’t pass it on — fine, hang him.
But what’s being done right now, this effort to claim that it’s an intelligence failure is nonsense, because the reality is, when a guy shows up at the ticket counter, pays cash, one-way, no luggage — 40 years ago that was a sign that the person needed to be pulled aside and interrogated, regardless of whether there were dots to be connected.
But somebody needs to brief the Obama administration that that’s no longer the CIA’s job. It’s an NCTC, that’s under the control of Admiral Denny Blair, director of national intelligence. That’s supposed to be the fusion center. They’re the ones — at least his name was in the TIDE database.
ROBERTS: Right.
JOHNSON: It didn’t get passed over to the FBI. So, I think — I think the finger-pointing at the CIA right now is a red herring and a diversion.
ROBERTS: I take it too, that, Larry, you meant to say, Osama bin Laden, not Obama bin Laden.
JOHNSON: Yes. I’m sorry. ROBERTS: Finish this up here, Clark, you know, we talked about all the reforms put in place post-9/11, what needs to happen now? Do we need another top down review, need to go back to the drawing board — what?
ERVIN: Well, you know, I disagree with Larry to this extent. As the president said yesterday, this was a systemic failure and a systemic failure on two fronts. Not just the screening front but also on the watch list procedures. We need to change the watch list procedure. We need to make sure that agencies, including the CIA, and the State Department, and the NCTC, widely share this information and we need to deploy immediately, not just abroad, but also in this country, these whole body imagers.
ROBERTS: Right.
ERVIN: It’s the closest thing we can get to a silver bullet.
ROBERTS: OK. Clark Kent Ervin and Larry Johnson, great to talk to you this morning. Thanks for being in.
JOHNSON: Thanks, John.
CHETRY: We’re also getting a better picture right now of the alleged bomber’s state of mind. Our Randi Kaye has a look at some of the online writings — still ahead.
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