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Larry Johnson on CNN Today re TSA Rulings

By Bronwyn's Harbor on January 4, 2010 at 6:20 PM in Current Affairs

The very beginning of the interview is missing from the video, which our amazing videographer C.S. caught on the fly! Here are anchor Kyra Phillips’ questions at the top of the interview:

Joining us now with his take, former State Department counterterrorism official Larry Johnson.

And you know, Larry, I read your piece today that came out [published this morning here at NoQuarterUSA.net, "TSA Punts on Security"]. You are harsh. You’re saying this is a bonehead move that will likely increase the chance that terrorists will succeed. You say this is half-assed security and will get people killed. You even go on to say this is not even security. This is a joke, except it’s not funny. Wow. Your words are strong.

Below is the full transcript:

Joining us now with his take, former State Department counterterrorism official Larry Johnson.

And you know, Larry, I read your piece today that came out. You are harsh. You’re saying this is a bonehead move that will likely increase the chance that terrorists will succeed. You say this is half-assed security and will get people killed. You even go on to say this is not even security. This is a joke, except it’s not funny. Wow. Your words are strong.

LARRY JOHNSON, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: Well, Kyra, this is — this is a senseless policy. Why don’t they just have everybody wear a red sock on their left foot or baseball caps backwards? That will have the same effect on the security.

Note that the countries that don’t appear on this. You don’t have Egypt. The No. 2 guy in al Qaeda, Zawahiri, is still out there. You don’t have Mali. You don’t have Niger.

The fact of the matter is, let’s recall that, when the 9/11 hijacking took place, those hijackers, some of them started from Europe. Some of them started from small airports up in New England. And at that time, we had different levels of security predicated on the notion that we could anticipate what the threat is. We know now that that’s not the case.

The only defense is to have effective security procedures that it doesn’t matter where you fly from, it doesn’t matter what country you’re from, it doesn’t matter, you know, any part about your personal identity. What matters is that you have a security procedure in place that will prevent an explosive or weapon from being placed on board an aircraft.

PHILLIPS: So bottom line, Larry, are we just not getting the security thing right, or is al Qaeda, members of al Qaeda so smart enough that they continue to figure out where our gaps are and they hit them?

JOHNSON: I never sit around and worry about the intelligence of the bad guys. I always assume — assume the worst. Assume the bad guys are smart and they will do things right even if they don’t.

What we do know, though, is an effective layered security procedure, which involves technology, which involves profiling, and I’m not talking about saying whether or not somebody’s an Arab or a Muslim and you identify them, but profiles that identify habits of travel and other things that will provide indicators about somebody, when you put the technology, the profiling, and some other security measures together, then you have an approach.

What this is doing is already identifying for the bad guys “Here are the 14 countries that you have to worry about. So as long as you’re not one of those countries, you can do a work around.”

And we’ve already seen al Qaeda do that. And in fact, we know that there are al Qaeda members from Uzbekistan, from Georgia, from Mali, from Niger, from Egypt. So enough with this silliness that somehow we’re going to anticipate the intelligence in advance and get it. That’s just — that’s setting an expectation that’s way too high.

PHILLIPS: So let me ask you this. Do we have the right people in charge of our security when it comes to flying? Is the TSA the right organization with the right people, or should the TSA just be done away with and some different type of intelligence group take over our security when it comes to flying?

JOHNSON: This is not a problem of switching agencies. This is a problem of leadership at the top. Right now, the people that are running TSA are doing a disservice to the traveling public and putting them at risk.

PHILLIPS: We don’t even have a head of the TSA, Larry.

JOHNSON: Yes, well, that’s you know — there’s an acting head. And there was a head of the TSA during the entire Bush administration when this was allowed to continue.

I mean, this didn’t just start under Barack Obama. This has been going on for the last 12 months here, but it was going on for the previous seven years under the Bush administration. It was not fixed after 9/11.

They fixed some of it. They did start requiring checked baggage to be screened for explosives. That’s good. They did put security professionals in charge at the security screening checkpoints. That’s good. But they left some other gaps, particularly the issue of detecting explosives on board a person or in carry-on luggage.

PHILLIPS: Larry Johnson, appreciate your insight.

Just want to let you all know, too: we did reach out to the TSA and did not get a comment for this interview.

Larry, thanks.

JOHNSON: Thank you, Kyra.

  • Animal Control

    Way to go Larry!

  • Bronwyn

    I am testing this new comments feature — which lets us connect our comments to all the social networking outlets, from Twitter to Facebook to MySpace — and sending this link to all of my Facebook friends.  I already posted the link to the video and transcript on my Facebook “wall.”  

  • I’m a Linda too

    Larry, maybe your efforts will force them to wise up a bit yet….nah, but at least your trying.

    They won’t fix something if they don’t see it’s wrong.  And there lies the problem, right?  What kind of vision do our leaders have?  Is it the one we keep seeing, like Barry coming out 3 days later  after hitting many balls (golf) to share his drive meek words?

  • Bronwyn

    Okay.  I just got confirmation via JS-Kit that my comment above is now posted on my Facebook “wall” and has been sent to my Facebook friends.  It’s fun to try the many new features that this comments software gives us.

    Btw:  If you haven’t got a Facebook account, I recommend it.  I have reconnected with old friends, and gotten the best links to hot news stories that I’d have not otherwise seen.  And it is fun to get to have brief, yet edifying, discussions with so many people.

  • I’m a Linda too

    Larry, maybe your efforts will force them to wise up a bit yet….nah, but at least you’re trying. 

    They won’t fix something if they don’t see it’s wrong. And there lies the problem, right? What kind of vision do our leaders have? Is it the one we keep seeing, like Barry coming out 3 days later after hitting many balls (golf) to share his meek words?

  • Mandelay

    Larry Johnson for Sec. of Homeland Security.  Now.  Please!

  • Jazzman

    Not bad…not too bad LJ…But I know you can hit harder…… Its time to educate our friends on the HIll..again…. I certainly hope your on the list to testify…..

  • Paul Burrell

    Harrassment of travelers to and from countries on the Naughty List is old school political theater.  In the case of travelers to or from Cuba, it’s been a popular sport for coming up on 50 years now. 

    Agreed, it has nothing at all to do with security, nor does keeping folks from carrying water and food onto a plane.  Nor does having everyone take off their shoes before boarding – that particular piece of security kabuki is truly outstanding, though.

  • Jazzman

    The funny part of the shoe removal is that its really not necessary…. That technology is in place but you can’t tell that to TSA… Ask TSA this question. Why is it that a person does not have to take their shoes off when going through the White House mags? Oh which also have a lower false alarm rate for guns and knives than the mags at the airports…..Why is that?

  • Texas Playwright

    Thanks so much, Larry.  Your experience will surely crack some closed minds open. 

  • Guest

    It goes without saying that added security measures do not guarantee safety because a determined person can always find a way to get around afety precautions. If you are on the no-fly list, determine what the airlines check against at each ID point and procure a matching set of real and fake (stolen) documents or whatever. But by restricting the easiest-to-recruit, most likely potential terrorists at least we can make it much more difficult for them (AQ) to operate.

  • Jazzman

    Guest…

    Yes added security guarantees nothing at all. But it does limit and offset risk. This is about managing risk as much as it is security. Targeting selected high risk Countries is fine as an additional tool…but nothing beats putting everyone through a specific set of security procedures before they board a foreign inbound aircraft. This takes away any guessing and its not that hard to do. The idea is to make it tough for the terrorist to penetrate the security layers.

    Of course that also means cutting out the crap and bull-sheet-rock that plagues TSA. TSA has been told by professionals what their problem is and they are just not listening…

    As Pogo once said….“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

  • SantaFeK

    Thanks for the excellent appearance on CNN.  Glad to have people with the ability, facts, and spine who say what has to be said.  

  • AnnieCarmel

    I do have a Facebook account.  However, I would never post comments that I post here.  NQ is my escape from PC Carmelites and old Big Sur Hippies (nothing sadder or more retarded).  Once when I tried to discuss the HC fiasco, I got so flamed by a couple of lefties (friends of friends)  that I “unfriended” the mutual connection and watched my back for the next week.  This after they screamed at me that they are Socialists by God and we’re gonna get all of you.

    No, I’ll use NQ for serious discussion and Facebook for socializing.

  • sowsear

    Well, this bomber/security scare is sure taking the heat off of the Health Care issue.The Legislature is set to push it through without Republican help.
    BO is taking a lot of heat on several fronts…
    They used to say that the Bush administration raised the terror threat level everytime something negative happened to them.
    Hum, is this a convenient crisis or not?

  • TeakWoodKite

    Jazzman, he got Kyra to say “You say this is half-assed security and will get people killed”, not something you see everyday. LOL

  • TeakWoodKite

    Hey Bronwyn, I got the facebook thing down  and the link embed, but what is the “b quote” syntax?

    NQ. 8-)

  • TeakWoodKite

    Hayden recalled warning Jim Jones, Obama’s national security adviser, last spring not to alienate the C.I.A. by dredging up the past. “You’re about to spend the next 46 months without a clandestine service,” Hayden recalled saying. “If these guys don’t think you have their back, they’re not going to be very adventurous.”

  • stodghie

    larry, thanks for carrying the water. i am glad that cnn knows to call on experts like you. the sad news is that the bad policies are still ongoing.

  • FLDemFem

    I literally just walked in the door from a trip to Dallas, Texas from FL. It took me three planes to get there. On one of the planes, the flight attendant informed us that the captain, who gets to pick the rules on board, said that we had to stay in our seats, and keep our seat belts fastened. This was from Memphis to Atlanta. And if we unfastened our seat belts, we would be put on the terrorist list. Yup, actually said that. Everyone in the plane looked at each other, wondering if he was out of his mind or paranoid. Mind you, this was a small commuter flight, originating and ending in the US. And we had all been screened by security prior to boarding. Needless to say, no one undid their seat belt!! But I thought that was a bit much, I really did. And no food or drink could be taken through security, but if you bought it after passing through security then you could take it on the plane and eat it there. I did buy a sandwich which I then ate on the plane. I hate traveling by air these days, I remember with longing the days when there were fewer flights and you could get a non-stop between states. These days it seems you have to hop around half the states between the ones you want to travel to and from. To get to Texas, I had to go to Georgia and Tennessee. Grrrrrr.. but I made it, although my knees won’t be the same after trekking through the various airports. For some reason, the arrival gates of my flights and the departure gates of the next flight were at opposite ends of the airport. I hate flying. I told my family that the next person to die better do it near a train line or within easy driving distance or they can get buried without me there. They laughed and pointed out that now I am the oldest, so the next one to go will probably be me. Oh well. At least I won’t have to fly to the funeral.

  • donjo

    The war on terror has been about scaring people, not protecting them

    The ease with which the plane bomber could operate exposes the vacuity and recklessness at the heart of the US response to 9/11

       
             Gary Younge
             guardian.co.uk, Sunday 3 January 2010 21.00 GMT

            So there was no ticking time bomb. No urgent need ever arose to torture anybody who was withholding crucial details, so that civilisation as we know it could be saved in the nick of time. No wires had to be tapped, special prisons erected or international accords violated. No innocent people had to be grabbed off the street in their home country, transported across the globe and waterboarded. Drones, daisy-cutters, invasions, occupations were, it has transpired, not necessary.

    Indeed, when it actually came down to it, to forestall a near-calamitous terrorist atrocity in the US the authorities didn’t even have to go in search of information or informants. The alleged terrorist’s father came to the US embassy in Nigeria of his own free will and warned them that his son, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, had disappeared and could be in the company of Yemeni terrorists.

    Meanwhile the National Security Agency had heard that al-Qaida in Yemen was planning to use an unnamed Nigerian in an attack on the US. If that were not enough, then came Abdulmutallab himself, a 23-year-old Nigerian bound for Detroit who bought his ticket in cash, checked in no bags and left no contact information. For seven years the American state manipulated the public with its multicoloured terror alerts. But when all the warning lights were flashing red, it did nothing.

    To read the rest:  http://tinyurl.com/yfm5wno

  • Animal Control

    Don’t wana nitpick and he did say he had been to 57 states “with two to go”-makes 59 (acording to Obama math).

    Boy ain’t he brilliant-snark!

  • timmy

    Larry you might just be the last hope we have if anyone at “NSS” is listening.  Obama has 2 gaints ears but can’t hear shit. 

    It’s so laughable to think that Obama knows anything about defending a nation. Just looked at his record…… Putting Obama in charge of America’s security is same as putting Bownie in charge of the leves after Katerina. With the exception of Hillary, this whole administration is a joke.

    I think we schould just forget any chance for peace in the world till we crash and defeat these Jhadists. They said they are not afraid to die. So what are we waiting for? Give it to them. You want death, you got it…. give them the big one. Just ask Japan. Now they are our best allies.

  • timmy

    Larry you might just be the last hope we have if anyone at “NSS” is listening.  Obama has 2 gaints ears but can’t hear shit.  
     
    It’s so laughable to think that Obama knows anything about defending a nation. Just look at his record…… Putting Obama in charge of America’s security is same as putting Bownie in charge of the leves after Katerina. With the exception of Hillary, this whole administration is a joke. 
     
    I think we must just forget any chance for peace in the world till we crash and defeat these Jhadists. They said they are not afraid to die. So what are we waiting for? Give it to them. You want death, you got it…. give them the big one. Just ask Japan. Now they are our best allies. 

    War is damn shit…but it has to be done. The security of the free world depends on it. it’s must be done. it has to be done. Damn stright, we better do it now or forever be damn. It has been done before. WW2 gave us the greatest generation and the longest peace  and advancement in the history of humanity. We killed Hilter, Japan hit the dust and finally the USSR died in 1989. That took guts and great men lost their lives to achieve it. Freedom isn’t cheap… and it’s not going to be maintianed or advanced with the wimppy types like Obama. Obama would sell our freedom down the river if he got a good offer. Damn right. Just look at his record.

  • timmy

    Larry you might just be the last hope we have if anyone at “NSS” is listening.  Obama has 2 gaints ears but can’t hear shit.    
       
    It’s so laughable to think that Obama knows anything about defending a nation. Just look at his record…… Putting Obama in charge of America’s security is same as putting Bownie in charge of the leves after Katerina. With the exception of Hillary, this whole administration is a joke.   
       
    I think we must just forget any chance for peace in the world till we crash and defeat these Jhadists. They said they are not afraid to die. So what are we waiting for? Give it to them. You want death, you got it…. give them the big one. Just ask Japan. Now they are our best allies.   
     
    War is damn shit…but it has to be done. The security of the free world depends on it. It must be done. It has to be done. Damn stright. We better do it now or forever be damn. It has been done before. WW2 gave us the greatest generation and the longest peace  and advancement in the history of humanity. We killed Hilter, Japan hit the dust and finally the USSR died in 1989. That took guts and great men lost their lives to achieve it. Freedom isn’t cheap… and it’s not going to be maintianed or advanced with the wimppy types like Obama. Obama would sell our freedom down the river if he got a good offer. Damn right. Just look at his record.

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