Why Won’t Pollsters Ask the Right Question On Race?

If that 19% figure is anywhere near accurate, then it means that McCain is, in reality, significantly ahead in the race. But regardless of whether or not the 19% figure is accurate, the difference between the 5% who confessed that they couldn’t vote for a black man and the 19% who said that they didn’t think that their friends would vote for a black man shows me that the “Bradley Effect” is still a significant factor. People are reluctant to confess, even to an anonymous pollster, that they have racist sentiments. But they’re there and they’ll come out in the voting booth on Electiion Day.

They never seem to ask the wright questions. lol

Hillary knew about Georgia.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?p=278934&posted=1#post278934

Everyone, an opportunity has fallen on our laps. With the current events taking place in Georgia with Russia, Barry has shown his lack of understanding of the conflict and the region, itself.

With 300 advisors and despite his membership on the Subcomitte on European Affairs, Barry still got it wrong… and, in turn, had to flip flop to align himself with McCain. McCain won on this issue.

Barry got it wrong on Energy Policy and handed McCain a slim advantage on the issue.

Hillary is stronger than Barry on Energy, Economy and on foreign affairs.

It’s not too late to push the narrative to Superdelegates. It will make a differenct.

Both of Hillary’s statement are here.

We need to put up an action item to communicate with Supers and make the case that Hillary was and still is stronger than Barry on most fronts. Clearly, Hillary is THE ONLY CANDIDATE TO GO TOE TO TOE WITH MCCAIN.

Please push this story on every media outlet. Please call into every show and mention Hillary’s statement calling out Russia and their abuse of Georgia. Please make viral videos. Please post this on every blog that you can.

Thanks for you help because this will be yet another tool to try and convince SuperDelegates before the convention.

Get to work. Send and post Hillary’s statements everywhere!

That couldn’t be more true.

Everyone wants to talk about how that 8% of whites are racists, but they won’t mention the 20% of AAs in the same light.

Reverse racism is wrong too.

The presidential race is not a statistical dead heat. That term applies ONLY to a single poll. Obama is up nearly 5 points in the realclearpolitics.com poll average and that has been his average lead since he clinched the nomination.

A 5 point lead in the polls is an electoral college landslide.

And Obama has gained in the last week, as McCain’s lame celebrity ads have backfired.

These are August polls; we have not even begun to see the heavy artillery which will come out once the race really gets going. We’ll see.

Just keep on spinning and spinning Debbie. Look how many polls had Obama ahead and then he lost them at the last minute. Wasn’t Obama ahead in California by 10 points and lost the state by 15 points. By my way of counting that a 25 point spread. Yes the Bradley effect is live and well as per an article I read last week. It went away for a few years (per the article) in city/county/state elections but it reared its ugly head again in this election cycle. The only reason why the exit polling and the final data was so different was the Bradley affect. Don’t think that Bradley effect won’t affect the final outcome of the GE.

Obama is more behind in the polls than pollsters care to admit.

Just keep on spinning and spinning Debbie. Look how many polls had Obama ahead and then he lost them at the last minute. Wasn’t Obama ahead in California by 10 points and lost the state by 15 points. By my way of counting that’s a 25 point spread. Yes the Bradley effect is alive and well as per an article I read last week. It went away for a few years (per the article) in city/county/state elections but it reared its ugly head again in this election cycle. The only reason the article could come up as to why the exit polling and the final data was so different was the Bradley affect. Don’t think that Bradley effect won’t affect the final outcome of the GE.

Obama is more behind in the polls than pollsters care to admit.

You really are without a clue, aren’t you. The only reason the RCP poll average is up that high is because of polls from the likes of CBS News and the NY Times, both of whom have always been biased to the left.

The Gallup and Rasmussen tracking polls are the ones you need to watch. These two organizations do polling for a living, unlike the major media organizations, and they don’t have a political axe to grind.

Both Gallup and Rasmussen have the race anywhere from McCain +1 to Obama +3. And since the statistical margin for error in these polls is +/- 3%, the race is a staistical dead heat right now.

Ani, I think it’s because the pollsters are in cahoots with the corporate-obama-media and the obama campaign.

They skew the polls with their questions and their “methodology” – and I think they’re showing bambi polling higher than he really is (like they did all through the primaries).

But then, they hedge their bet by asking the lame “racial” question so that when barky loses, it won’t be a referendum on barry or his enablers in the media, it will be only because the pollsters and the MSM were “right” – “Despite all our high-minded attempts to educate and uplift you rubes, you’re still a bunch of bitter racists – and you just couldn’t stand that barry was right!”

Government, politics and media in this country have long been down the rabbit hole – but it’s a particularly grotesque display in this election year.

Yawn.

Labelers hate to look at the man as the explanation. They prefer to have their categorical view of the world confirmed.

Debbie, do you always regurgitate MSNBC Chuck Todd’s talking points from Hardball? You know that Todd is an idiot right?

Debbie believes in Hopey dopey Nowhere man. I feel so sorry for these koolaid false democrats.
Most of them do not believe in democracy where every vote is suppose to count. How quick they yelled voter fraud when Bush repubs did it, but the DNC did the same thing. So Hypocritical Debbie. How do you reconcile that without your koolaid????

We need a Hillary poll She would be blowing Nobama away and have at least at 10 point lead on McCain.

Funny–I wrote this very guy a polite and thoughtful letter along the same lines the other day, when his column hit the OP ED.

He never got back to me. At least not yet. Here’s an excerpt of the thing I bothered to put down, where I make similar, salient points:

This guy was a PART TIME STATE LEGISLATOR. His district included rich people he sucked up to, and the poorest of the poor, whom he IGNORED.
He took credit in the legislature for the work of others–shamelessly.
He was a part time LECTURER at a Law School–who never wrote a SINGLE ACADEMIC PAPER.
He was a social worker, aka community organizer, who can’t point to a single success that he “organized.”
He went to two fine Ivy League schools, and his school grades are SEALED. Whose theses and scholarly documents….poof…missing!!!!
A guy who worked at a law firm–but never argued ANY CASES in court. Who never wrote ANYTHING at that firm and SIGNED HIS NAME.

OK, Mister Blow. Who IS this guy? He wrote two “confessional” books–about HIMSELF–and managed to say almost NOTHING. He told a story of angst, drug experimentation, self-esteem challenges, and “daddy” issues. Didn’t we just go through eight years of a similarly inexperienced President with those same problems?

Let’s suppose some caucasian bozo named Harold Peckerwood, Junior Senator from Any State, same age, decided that he is running for the Presidency with Obama’s EXACT credentials.

How HARD are you LAUGHING….at Harold Peckerwood’s AUDACITY? No, not his audacity–his NERVE. His brass balls. His “Who the hell does that Peckerwood think he IS???” What would your column say about that guy? That people who didn’t like him were being MEAN? Or that they didn’t think he was sufficiently EXPERIENCED? You sure wouldn’t be accusing his detractors of racism, now, would you?

There’s racism going on, all right. The racism that no one dare say anything BAD about the guy who gives a great speech–so long as he has a teleprompter–but who can do little else. Because otherwise you get accused of being a racist.

Why are so many people willing to suspend their good judgment and just fall in love with this fellow? Because he is young. Because he is CUTE. Because he has a sweet smile. Because he’s BROWN. He’s a little bit of this, a little bit of that. He plays that “All things to all people” game. He calls himself a symbol–and maybe he is that. And you got suckered in to “defending” him with the RACIST canard.

Like I said, the dude never bothered to write back. How can you defend the indefensible?

“The Media Elites In The Tank For The Anointed One” apparently cannot handle the cognitive dissonance.

I think the 29 delegates that Edwards received should also be top news..But they are forgetting about the real tally count now, that Edwards Delegates should not count.

Does polygamy secure Obama’s citizenship?

Monday, August 11, 2008
The Saturday, Aug. 9, Canada Press front page story I authored generated a firestorm of letters to the Toronto newspaper.

One particular Letter to the Editor makes some vital points, and asks an important question not before asked: Does polygamy protect Barack Obama’s status as a natural born US citizen?
http://countusout.wordpress.com/

Yes we are all sick of being labled racists because we don’t support the Golden Idiot.My latest blogpost is all about this very subject and how if we use their reasoning on them (that’s fair right?) then they are all racists too because according to them that is the only issue of importance.

http://caffinequeen.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/why-voting-for-obama-may-be-racist/

Let me know what you think of my “logic” here.

CQ

No, your information about CA is not correct.

Why shouldn’t they count? Because he had an affair?

And, in any case, Edwards doesn’t have any delegates. All of those folks have endorsed Obama.

PLEASE keep writing letters like that to people.

And please tell everyone you know that Obama can’t speak without a teleprompter and then do urge them to see that for themselves by watching the debates.

I didn’t get my talking points from Chuck Todd but I’m curious why you think he’s an idiot — besides the fact that you don’t like his analysis.

Are you labeling me a labeler, podner?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCRLBJfVXIQ

Why don’t you comment on the last part of the posting, would you vote for the white guy that sat in a racist church for 20 years?? You want to change the subject all the time Debbie but what this post is talking about is how most people see Obama. Obama hung with Rezko for 17 years, doing whatever he could to advance Rezko, write letters in support of his Slum projects and Rezko would give Obama money. You can tell about anyone by checking out their friends.

Man debbie you get around!

I had to follow you here to get an answer to my post.

The good “AUTHOR” Debbie has graced us with her presence once again.

I beg for the title of one of your books before so I could get you to autograph it for me and you ignored me.

Please don’t leave us hanging.

Stop the hate!

Well, it isn’t really “reverse” racism. It’s racism. Plain and simple.

And it doesn’t even have to be a “different” race that’s being slurred for the label to apply.

We know damn well that the Brahmins looked down their (non-garlic) noses at the Irish, Italians, and Jews, caucasians all. We know that there’s a segment in the black community that favors light/bright over “darkness,” and in retaliation for that “pinky” discrimination, there are those who say if you’re not brown enough, you’re not black enough, in some quarters. Taiwanese sometimes look askance at mainlanders, American-Vietnamese do the same to those living under the regime….hell, even Romans tut-tut at Neapolitans and Sicilians. While the lines are more starkly drawn when the color or ethnicity is different from the one tossing the insults, racism can be a very nuanced thing, and very close to home, too.

Anytime you dis someone for their skin color or ethnicity, you’re indulging in racism, even if the person shares some ethnic characteristics with you.

Racism’s wrong….and Obama overplayed that card, I suspect. No one likes to be accused of being a bigot, particularly when the accusations are so profoundly unfair.

I don’t know many people who didn’t WANT to like this attractive young Obama guy, who were predisposed to like him…only he kept whipping it out and stepping on his OWN crank, all by himself. He is not that smart. His judgment is poor. He’s intemperate, he’s arrogant, he’s over-anxious, and he’s HUMORLESS.

The media may have fluffed his pillows, but he made that “racist” bed all by himself, and now he’s having trouble lying in it.

Too fucking bad. He shouldn’t have gone there in the first place.

Are you one of those Bill haters cause he got a BJ and now Edwards just had an affair, covered it up while he ran for POTUS knowing that he could bring down the dem party with Elizabeth’s complicity and we know more about Edwards lover Hunter than we do about Obama. Is that your argument debbie dear? Your ignorance and hypocrisy are breath taking.

There is one poll that is the CBS/NY Times poll — one. And, actually, Gallup and Rasmussen both have problems, mostly because they don’t do call-backs. (As you are certainly well-versed in polling methodology, I surely don’t have to explain call-backs to you.) And Rasmussen weights by party and changes its weighting each month.

By the way, what do you think are the impacts of party weighting and call backs? Perhaps you’d like to have a serious conversation about polling methods.

This is from The Chris Matthews Show, and is basically what all of us here (save the trolls) know to be true. Obama is a con man.

http://www.againstobama.com/2008/08/chris-matthews-panel-cannot-come-up-with-any-real-obama-accomplishment/

Statistical dead heat refers to the result of ONE poll. When you have dozens of Rasmussen and Gallup polls and only two had McCain in even a one point lead, that is no statistical dead heat. This is Statistics 101 – determining statistical significance when you have multiple data points. It’s usually covered about two weeks into that first college course on statistics.

Obama is up by 2 points at Rasmussen, so clearly he’s not surging ahead and it depends on what polls you read. On national security issues, voters favor McCain 52-39%. On Social Security, McCain has pulled ahead 44-38%. Immigration: 45-36, MaCain favored. Even on health care, Obama has lost the sizeable lead he had bringing the numbers down to a 5% spread between himself and McCain.

And the beat goes on.

I’m sure you’ve read these numbers, too. So, please don’t insult our intelligence.

Obama has slipped, not gained. Even in the swing states that Obamatrons always point to as evidence of his mounting popularity and inevitable win in November, the numbers are tightening to squeakers.

Obama’s movement has backfired, stalled and is moving in reverse. And personally, that’s just fine with me and most of the readers here.

Strictly speaking, on the first ballot elected deleagtes are expected to vote for the candidate they are pledge to. So his delegates could still vote for him if his name is put into nomination.

Oh, so it’s the pollsters who are in cahoots with the Obama campaign.

Very interesting. Cognitive dissonance must be avoided at all costs!

Clue one from the AUTHOR:

Maybe it’s a statistics book because you sound so statistical!

Stop the hate!

No, I voted for Clinton twice and thought the impeachment was ridiculous. None of what you wrote is my argument.

Wow, and you came over here to tell us that, why?

I’ll tell you why. Because you’re afraid. You want to tamp down any negativity, even in a place where Kool Aid isn’t served.

And you know those numbers you’re tossing around just are not true. If you’re not on a college campus, you can feel it–it’s OBVIOUS.

Obama’s in TROUBLE. “The One” isn’t the one most Americans have been waiting for.

In fact, he’s “The One” that most Americans want to STFU, because he’s a hectoring, bossy, humorless nanny who whines a lot. And copies other people’s ideas–a LOT.

Be Very Afraid, Little Debbie.

Very Afraid, Indeed.

By the way, Lt. Col. West happens to be African American

I had read that statement when it was printed and for the life of me it never even crossed my mind at the time what his ethnicity or race or any of that was.

I agreed with Lt. Col. West’s statement and moved on.

I agree Ani. Asking questions is one thing, asking the right questions is another.

I like the one I read earlier today on NQ that poster suggested.

BO What is your legal name?

Delegates can vote for anyone they want. It makes NO difference if the candidate’s name is put in nomination.

All three of them? Obama is terrified of a Debate.

Umm, uhh, uhhh

What debates are those??? The ones he cowardly didn’t show up to?! Uhhh Uhh hmm huuhh

Maybe the good AUTHOR, debbie, wrote “My pet goat II.” The book Obama was reading when the crisis broke out in Georgia.

Stop the hate!!

You’re very good at telling other people what they feel. Do you normally do that with other people?

Lt. Col. Allen West’s – (U.S. Army (Ret.), says it all. Nothing more needs to be siad. “If Senator Obama was confident in his abilities and character, he would not need to create a crutch for failure. Senator Obama has just tipped his hand, any criticism of him and his policies will be directly attributed to racism.”

Like Ani, I do not support Obama based on positions, policy, experience, and lack of character and I am tired of being called a racist.

Way too much arguing about August polls, although it’s fun.

We keep hearing about the so called Bradley effect; perhaps we could use a post giving discrepancies between final polls and actual primary results.

Liar, they can vote for whoever they want, but unless the name is on the ballot, it won’t count.

Stop spreading your voter suppression propaganda, or at least educate yourself if you really didn’t know.

Yes, more of this, PLEASE. I beg you, please tell everyone you know that Obama will do a terrible time in the debates.

Thanks!

Obama asked for five debates.

You can keep dividing people until you get brother against brother. Dividing is easy – uniting is hard. Once you release the racist genie as a cynical ploy you can’t put him back in the bottle again as quickly. That’ll take a lot of time.
Obama has set this country back 50 years.

I am thankful that McCain is the nominee for the republicans. When he shows his strengths like he has on the Russia/Georgia issue I don’t worry about things so much.

I would rather have Hillary in the White House but I will settle for McCain.(if I have too.)

He was supposed to win CA by 10 pts and he lost it by 10 pts. Still a 20 pt. spread.

No, you are misinformed. But that’s NQ for you!

They’re all over the internet. Try the google.

Sweetie, I just met with the organizer of the delegate petition. It is you who are full of shit.

Bye Bye.

I voted for him in the Florida primary. I have since seen the error of my ways….Since I am white and voted for him once, how do I suddenly become a racist, because I stop supporting him? The logic escapes me, but I have been called racist by many, a fraud and a liar. Go figure.

but, you just said that both gallup and rasmussen polls have problems, why are you referring to those polls if you think they have problems?

Fact of the matter is that a dead-heat is probably being nice to Obama. You can cherry pick what ever polls you wish to present your side. Here is where you should be worried — a sitting President with the lowest approval rating ever, a tanked economy, gas prices higher then they have ever been, a war that has drained the economy and we wish ended, tied with a presumed nomination that was handed to Obama, he and his wife are on every magazine cover and TV entertainment show, his well publicized trip to Europe and a media that is basically still in the tank for him — with all this any democrat should be so far ahead in the polls that there should be no reason to speculate or cherry pick polls to say Obama is ahead in the polls. If the present situation can not put any democrat far in the lead RIGHT NOW then what can? And like many said — the republicans have not started their attack machine yet…

RE: The poll

May I point out that to ask the people you are polling to read the minds of “most of the people [they] know” is pretty meaningless.

Only 5% of the people actually polled would NOT vote for a black person for pres….If the poll was conducted properly, THAT should properly represent the amount of people who would NOT vote for a black president: 5%, a very small percentage.

How does it make sense that the people ACTUALLY polled are somehow different than “most of the people {they] know,” whatever that means. Does it mean their friends and family? Does it mean friends, family and people they work with? Does it mean all of those people plus every plumber, dentist, librarian, homeless person, student, elderly neighbor, ice cream man, cashier, person who does their taxes, etc.? How can a person guess at that?

And again, why would that percentage be any different than the percentage of people they are ACTUALLY polling, who are supposed to represent a random sampling of citizens in the first place?

I don’t know anything about statistics and polling…would love to hear from someone who knows about this stuff. Am I crazy?

No, no, no, no, NO, Little Debbie–YOU are telling ME how YOU feel…see, by your very presence here, we know you.

We know all about you.

You’re an open book.

A very nervous, frightened, foot-stomping, angry, “Acolyte of the Anointed One,” open book.

Be very afraid, Little Debbie. Your coronation plans are going awry.

But don’t blame us–blame your lousy candidate.

The good AUTHOR can’t answer a simple question.

Stop the hate, Deborah!

The only “polls” that “count” will be posted in November.

OT Any of you seen this McCain net ad?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/McCain_inflates_Obama_celebrity_more_raises_sex_appeal.html

Mawm:

You obviously don’t know who you’re dealing with. Debbie, the good Author of several books, know something about something but none of us know what that something seems to be.

Stop the hate:-)

well, you’re already doing that around here.

I don’t have the link any more but back during the primary there was a piece that said to be aware of the padded polls for this election. Always, Always look at the way the poll was taken and if you can’t get the stats on the poll don’t trust it. I even saw a poll a bit back that was of Hispanics, they over polled dems in it also by a large number so it had McCain way down.
No one says well they were mostly dems polled. They cover that fact up.

I like the PEW poll that says people are suffering from “Obama Fatigue”

Using the article and the past, that means Obama is already behind as Obama has consistantly polled higher than he’s performed.

McCain VS Obama: McCain
McCain VS Hillary: Hillary

Hey where do we sign up for those cushy nasty blogger jobs? Do you have to actually drink that stuff

Here is a post you might enjoy and it talks about the Bradley effect.

Why McCain Wins If The Election Is Tomorrow
http://jay1949.wordpress.com/2008/08/09/why-mccain-wins-if-the-election-is-tomorrow/

I enjoy this blog, the writer is good and always has the facts to back things up.

The more anxiety there is the American electorate, the more they will vote for known quantity whether or not they agree with everything that candidate says.

The American electorate is anxious for change…but as the economy worsens and Russia continues to be aggressive, we still are involved in 2 wars and many other unsettling matters…Americans will be anxious for security and that will be McCain.

Many of us have said it is going to come down to competence and experience. Obama has not demonstrated that great judgement that he talks about.

First off, and this burns my ass, To use a National poll is insane. The election isn’t represented on a national level like that, so its already misrepresenting.

Second, They do random calls to people. For every person that does not pick up the phone there is an error in data. Do they represent that? NO Totally non reliable data.

So right off the bat there is serious problems in these types of survey’s–they aren’t by any stretch of the scientific mind, acurate.

The ONLY, I repeat ONLY, way they could have an accurate polling is to represent america in a general election based off of expected trends. They would have to take into account ethnic percentage, demographic factors, and sample sizes.

They would basically have to go state to state look at each demographic randomly select those ethic groups in Same amount and number that would be expected in a general election. Even then they wouldn’t be able to say those people WOULD absolutely show up to vote.

Poor Debbie. Keep trying there. Of course, the polls she doesn’t cite are the most reliable (Gallup & Rasmussen). Remember that Dukakis was up by 17 points at this time? How old are you sweetie? You have no idea what’s on it’s way, and Obambi is going to look like the confused little fawn that he is. He already stumbles around like he’s completely lost. And McCain’s ads backfired? LOL. They were a huge hit. Plenty more to come.

Not representing the people who don’t pick up is the serious flaw in all this. It would be like me trying to hit a dart board. If I missed the dart board 70% of the time, and then 20% of the time I hit toward the middle and 10% of the time on the outside could I then say that I am an intermediate player because I got close to the bullseye? NO. Get the jist of it. This is called accuracy. The surveys are not accurate because they miss data too often.

I think one of the questions asked previously was something like “Does race effect your decision?”

Well, many Americans are going to say yes to that. Because of the 20 years with Wright, MO, Pfleger, etc.

Race effected my decision because BO is a racist.

But then the pollsters turn the data around and say all the Caucasians who said yes are racist.

And yes, ignore the fact the 90+ percent AAs voted for BO because he’s black.

Who cares anymore, the allegations of racism have gone to the heights of stupidity. Allegations of the term, “black hole” as racist, “Angel’s Food” and “Devils food cake” RACIST! Whatever. Let the morons scream racism. Who cares about those people, they have lost all credibility.

You don’t get it, its the accuracy of it. If you miss a dart board 70% of the time and then 20% of the time you hit 50 and then 10% of the time you 100, could you then say that you hit 50 more often than 100. NO! You missed it most of the time.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! Thanks for that laugh Debbie. Now we KNOW you are drunk on Kool Aid. I did watch all of the debates, and he did exactly what we are talking about: uhhhhhh….ummmmm….uh….I agree with what Hillary said.

You just proved that you are completely lacking in objective awareness. He sucked in the debates. Why did his numbers go down every time he debated Hillary? Because she was knowledgeable, articulate, and commanding. He stumbled and fumbled and copied her. Why do you think he refused to debate her anymore, and now refuses to debate McCain or have open access to the press? Wake up and get your head out of the punch bowl Debbie, you’re embarrassing yourself.

Donna, that “stop the hate” cracks me up every time. Thank you!

good post Ani – don’t forget to include those of us who are people of color – many of us have experienced racism first hand, institutionalized racism as well – why in the hell would we then be so judgmental against Obama based on his race.

Of course, depending on culture, generations, etc. racism exists in all communities (African-Americans are NOT exempt simply because they’re AA, and I personally witnessed Asian Americans targeted with racist jokes by AAs at a Texas caucus), but this is really the dumbing down of racism – as if there are no other factors people other than race when it comes to considering a Presidential choice.

If the pollster asked – would you be more likely to vote for Colin Powell or Barack Obama and a majority favored Powell, would that be racism?

Geez, so much like their candidate, the O supporters go on sites they know don’t agree with them, looking for ways to pump their ego’s and “engage”, but its all self stroking behavior, gives them some perverse sense of importance jumping into a den of lions, making jab and stab points, feeling quite full of themselves, satisfied that they have “won”. Ahh yes the hollow victories of followers.

Can you tell me where in the arguement I said anything about Republicans and Hillary supporters or Obama. I didn’t make a judgement in any case for anyone in my argument. I only said the surveys are NOT accurate. I didn’t say whom they were Not accurate against because that is not the point I am making here.

You are making conclusions that aren’t based on the orgininal arguement.

Because the idiot is often wrong. His electoral map is a freakin’ joke.

The troll isn’t going to answer your question, Hank.

LOL, Debbie, what, did you take an intro to psych course, now you want to go around thinking you are like “Hannibal Lector” getting into peoples’ minds!

ROFLMAO! People, don’t feed this troll. She doesn’t answer direct questions.

Here Here, noto. Include NA’s as well. I’m harder on any race when they slip into code speech and behavior and play it off as if it doesn’t happen. I sure does, and more often than not at the expense of whites. I have seen it, and it still happens. Racism is racism no matter what direction it travels in.

OMG-that is hilarious! Who is doing the McCain ads, they are absolutely brilliant? BO is “dreamy.” They make him look like the fool he is and satirize him with great humor. Meanwhile, Obama and Co. will keep whining: McCain is negative! The good news is: McCain doesn’t care! Hillary had to back off because of the DNC, McCain can let it rip. I love it.

And yes, if the case is that young voters don’t have landline telephones then you are correct about that IF the survey only called landlines. If how ever the telephone numbers are random then that is not the case. The change that a cell phone is called is the same as a landline. Assuming that the united states has the same number of land lines as it does cell phones. By the way, that is not correct, there are about a milliion more than land based numbers in the united states. So the chance that the random survey could call a cell phone is higher than the land line.

So your argument doesn’t stand reason. I found that out in less than 5 mintues of research. You are failing this arguement bad.

sorry heres the link to the line numbers

http://www.ktbs.com/news/Home-phones-vs.-cell-phones-14492/

I give up on you.

Zogby and his brother (who seems to be an Obama superdelegate) have been in the tank for Obama since the primary. Only recently people are starting to see some truth in those numbers. I wrote them off long ago because of them, so I can’t verify that. But here is a Salon article which can.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/08/05/zogby_poll/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room

“Anyway, there’s a new Zogby poll out. Despite the fact that results from Zogby polls have been questionable in the past, usually Zogby results are dismissed as too favorable to Democrats, so the latest results showing Obama tanking with key groups (women, young voters) should cause some alarm — with major emphasis here on “some.” It is still only August: In the next three months we still have veep picks, conventions, presidential debates, dozens more ads, hundreds more candidate appearances, and what will seem like millions of spin and counterspin points from both campaigns.”

~~

Anyway, how convenient that you forget how racist push polls were used against McCain in 2000.

While using sarcasm to try and prove your false notion that pollsters can’t be in the tank for one Presidential candidate verses another candidate.

We don’t have to cry about Hillary being a loser, because she actually won. As usual, you perfectly illustrate the maturity level of an Obamabot. No need to insult you further, you make the point very clear with your bash and dash. Coward.

You are talking WAY over this bot’s head, don’t waste your time.

I think the terms “bigotry” and “prejudice” better represent the problem. As you point out it is not just race that is the target of discrimination, hatred, etc. but many Americans seem to have gotten focused only on race. Any bigotry is wrong.

Well me personally- I am sick to death of the “Bradley effect” and personally don’t believe it is relative this year. Those bastards at MSNBC were so quick to blame Hillary’s “stunning” win in NH on the Bradley effect. It wasn’t that. It was a high percentage of the high percentage of undecideds voting FOR Hillary. (Told you Little Debbie- Your Chuck Todd is an idiot!)

The high percentage of undecideds point to the fact that Obama can’t close the deal. It has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with his lack of leadership and experience. It’s not that he is black, it is because he is green.

Please. He wanted it on the 4th of July when no one is watching tv.

That isn’t a real debate.

That is hiding behind fireworks hoping no one will see him bomb yet again.

Yeah…because he took his loss so well the last time.

He had to brush and flip off Hillary.

LOL

you are so full of shix.

then get your butt in gear and clear out.

We all have. He couldn’t debate his own cardboard cut-out.

debbie,

i was an obama supporter until the debates. he didn’t prove himself on any level…and i left (hoping that he would gain experience and run again in 2016).

it’s hard for me to understand how any intelligent person can continue to support him at this point. and i mean that sincerely. he brings nothing substantial to the party; his record in chicago was thin; he has been less than stellar on the national level. sorry. he’s a weak candidate and he never should have gotten this far.

i won’t vote for obama because i am tired of the dnc nominating unelectable candidates. too, republicans should never have voted for bush, jr. in ’00 and ’04. he has been a disaster…mainly because of his inexperience. i will not have that on my conscience by voting for obama.

i don’t think he will beat mccain. his lack of ability on foreign policy is showing itself hugely right now: something we have known all along, and that obama can no longer hide.

Voted twice for Clinton? ROFL You aren’t old enough to vote now, Little Debbie.

many are worried about reverse racism. black holes and bull like that. there aren’t that many “white” people who feel guilty enough to vote for obama just for that reason, but let’s look at the aa vote. how about those apples?

What has been ignored here is black racism and white guilt which both put Obama at where he is today otherwise he would have been blown out very early.

As an inferior candidate, Obama got over 90% of the black vote against Hillary. Anything over 20% of the black vote to Obama was obviously racist. The vast majority of white votes Obama got were white guilt.

White guilt is very high in this country, I have read comments at a Repulican site and many people there are on their hands and knees begging for a black to vote for if they only had one qualified.

For every one white person who does not want to vote for Obama because he is black there are probably at least 10 who are voting for him because he is black. I have talked to some Obama supporters who acknowledge this. The Obama campaign understood this better than the almost anyone else and were quick to take advantage of this before Obama could develop a highly negative political record that would overshadow his advantage on race.

I would like to see someone do research on white guilt and publish an article. I think this has beome a huge advantage for black candidates.

i don’t know. i always answer my phone and say “i won’t vote for obama and i am a racist.” you comment is so frigging silly it is pathetic.

Those apples have been conveniently ignored, I’m afraid.

I completely agree.

Everyone I know wanted him to do well.

‘Embarrassment of riches’ was the comment about the Democrat’s wide selection of people to choose from.

Which had Obama’s rising star front and center.

To claim that most Dems don’t support Obama over racism when that was a major point of pride for Dems, a woman and an AA, just doesn’t track.

Like the Col says the racism card is creating the ‘crutch for failure’.

OOOOO LITTLE DEBBIE
lOVE YOUR NUTTY BARS!

Great ad. Thanks for posting it.

[...] Read the whole article at NoQuarterUSA. [...]

Debbie, if you look back at the body of the OP you notice some questions like “would you vote for a black” “would the people you know vote for a black” — very general, too general and susceptible to too much variant interpretation, so much that I would say the interviewer could very easily drive the responses with their tone or even an occasional extra word or chuckle. Then there is a long and very precise statement giving many details about a hypothetical person. Also not so good at the other extreme. What you see is an example of how methodology and statistics are mutually entangled. If the pollster wanted certain results they would go for one type of question. Polls are very dubious because of this circular nature to their construction.

Obama can’t talk without cue cards and he can’t think without 5000 advisors and we still get rubbish out of this opponent. Tire inflation saves more gas than drilling would produce — that is the dumbest statement I have ever heard and moreover there is no way to create a tire inflation program that would not waste more gas than it saves and would cost millions if not billions to administer.

I was wise to Obama for a long time — I was smart enough to have never gotten on his bandwagon.

Indeed. I started out excited by the Obama/Clinton choice. My excitement for Obama dropped substantially when his henchmen tarred Bill and Hillary with racism. I totally wrote Obama off after the Reverend Wright tapes.

If Obama can’t be a post-racial candidate what do you have left? 123 days in the Senate and an out of control ego.

Showing off that poli sci class you took last semester. Go pack for school, kid. Isn’t rush week coming up?

These pollsters act as if voters don’t have valid complaints about Obarnum.

“It also seems rather humorous that the Presidential candidate who was supposed to be such a “uniter” and transcend race is the one talking about it the most. If Senator Obama was confident in his abilities and character, he would not need to create a crutch for failure.”

I love that quote!! When “Barack Obama” sinks, he can’t blame it on racism, and he can’t blame it on Hillary. He is to blame, and he needs to be held accountable for his actions.

Obama only has two core strategies: celebrity and the race card.

The race card will be hammered at again and again and again, to try to get people in line with voting for a fraud and to try to blunt any criticism of this liar.

Don’t waste a lot of time on it. Just nod your head, understand that those pulling this ploy are trying to con you, and work like heck to defeat one of the most pathetic pols — of any color — this nation has ever seen, Barry Soetoro.

Yes, Debbie, those endorsements from Edwards to Obama. Grown-ups call that blackmail.

I don’t believe you are old enough to have voted for Clinton, I believe you are a liar. You seem to be about 16 yo and that does not surprise me since Obama will hire and use anyone he can. You remind me of the kids who followed Charles Manson and would do anything for him. The cultists followed a fool just like you are doing.

May I remind you, Little Debbie, that gainsay is not argument. I don’t think I’ve met a more insufferable troll than you.

If you want change, Missy, you must work for it and not pin your hopes on a pathetic gasbag like Oblahblah in lieu of actually doing something yourself. That’s the problem with you bots–you want everything handed to you.

You are all over this site, why don’t you get an honest job at Whataburger rather than picking up dirty money by trying to push your cult on others.

Hi, debbie!

Thanks for the clip. I wonder what happened to Matthews’ thrilled leg.

I am waiting for the Wright effect, Phleger effect, Ayers effect, inexperince effect, arrogance effect, ineptitude effect, etc to kick in and bury Obama.

It’s necessary for Obama and the DNC to keep racism alive because it’s the only reason they can play when he fails.

They refuse to acknowledge his inexperience, his flawed policies, his extremely poor judgement and his general incompetence. What else do they have.

That’s the most pathetic thing about all of them for they will be the first to claim that racism is why he lost.

Everyone I know could care less about his race. We’ve been wanting smarts, not color.

How sad that the media has done such a grave disservice to the American people. First to fall all over Obama because he is black. Letting Obama and his supporters including the media play the race card as if it is true diminishes the true meaning of racism. I am not a racist and I will never vote for Obama. Now if Sheila Jackson Lee or some other capable black was running then they would have my vote. According to the media and Obama and his, I guess Hillary can only win because whites are racists. So if Hillary in some way wins this election it will be touted that she won because of racism and nothing more. I want the heads of the media including Soros and the republican whores who helped this along. Most of all I want Obama’s head on a stick in the center of Times Square where it belongs. The most despicable of terrorists to ever set foot in America. What he has done to this nation will probably never heal. Pelosi, brazile, Dean, kennedby, the whole lot of them should be in jail. They knew Obama was not presidential material, he wasn’t even senatorial material, yet they ran him because they hate the Clintons. The republicans hate the Clintons. Why? Because of their intelligence? Why? somebody explain it to me so I can understand it. Hate is what this Obama candidate has brought us and what the republicans have brought us. If this is what is going to run America then leave me out. If I were Hillary I wouldn’t accept the nomination now if they begged me to. She is only going to be branded the racist president because of Obama and the media and the republicans. Such despicable people.

Nope. Not even close.

BO has gotten where he is now politically by playing the race card. So he’s hoping to ride it into the presidency.

MO used it to get away with an easy thesis. She just wrote about race, rather than actually do real work. Nice for her.

I liked the “race genie” bit by Jon Stewart. Pretty much said it all.

Unreal, BO is running for president, easily beat out Edwards, and all he does is whine that Americans are racist. I guess that means if we voted for Hill, we are racist, right you stupid bots?

My heart bleeds for the millionaire and his wife, they have been SOOOO discriminated against in racist America- A place where Black men could vote 50 years before White women, but Hill didn’t play the gender card every time she turned around.

NQ folks are so personal and so insulting. Why is that? And so deluded.

There is what’s called the social desirability effect in polling. That means that people won’t admit that they are doing things that they know are socially undesirable (such as refusing to vote for a candidate who is black). However, they are willing to say that “other folks” engage in socially undesirable activities.

Of course. That’s what they do. And don’t expect them to actually discuss polling methodology. If you try, they’ll insult you – because they have nothing rational to say and they enjoy personal insults.

WARNING: SFHILLARY/DR WANG/

SHE’S PSYCHO! WARNING!!

Any delegate can vote for any candidate. Anymore who tells you different is either lying to you or is misinformed.

WARNING! DEBBIE DOES DUMBASS BELOW!

There is what’s called the social desirability effect in polling. That means that people won’t admit that they are doing things that they know are socially undesirable (such as refusing to vote for a candidate who is black). However, they are willing to say that “other folks” engage in socially undesirable activities.

Ah, the fallacy of the unknown fact.

Benjamin Disraeli said there were three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I think there is a fourth: anything you post.

Whooeehhh — another crazy NQ conspiracy theory.

Which country do you think Obama was born in today?

Bravo!!

Your last point is so crucial.

The Republicans haven’t even started their onslaught!! It’s not looking good for Obarnum right now, and they haven’t even begun to REALLY attack him.

So why does no one ask african americans if the choice is between a black candidate and a white candidate which one are you going to vote for? I am willing to bet the answer is much more than 5% or even 19% will say the black candidate. Will the pundits then characterize this as racist? Again I will bet no. Because it is ok to vote identity if you are black or hispanic but not if you are white. This is not to say that racism doesn’t exist in america -it does. It just exists equally in all communities but is constantly ignored because it is not politically correct. White people in 21st century america have no more racists among them than the other races. But the guilty conscience is used to great effect. This is why Obama gets away with this.

As someone pointed out to me why is it ok to have a BEC, a black entertainment channel but not ok to have a WEC , a white entertainment channel?

Obama is not post racial -he has no intention of being post racial. He counted on his race to win the primary by getting >90% of the black vote as much as he counted on flooding states with caucuses with his paid supporters. It is a combination that could only work for him at this time when americans are so hungry for change. What is becoming apparent is that the more they actually look at him ad realize how inexperienced he is and how he has as much trouble as George Bush in articulating his thoughts and they are reassessing him. That is why Obambi will lose in the fall. His moment was March and his moment is over.

PSYCHO DEBBIE:

UP YOUR MEDS NUTBALL.

lol @ Little Debbie fawning over the Little Fawn.

Thank you for your post. Racism or bias of any kind is wrong. No matter whom you support, or supported, I remember clearly Hillary was constantly asking to be judged on the merits. No gender norming, no bias one way or the other.

Character is as character does. Certainly the long record she has (going back to 7 yrs at the Children’s Defense fund) makes her agenda very clear.

There are many factors in choosing to vote for a Presidential candidate — –character, resilience, preparedness, smarts, and showing up work for me, for a starter.

Good one Donna!

Our little author Debbie is suddenly psycho silent.

Obviously its you the good AUTHOR!

What is the book you wrote in the lost reference section?

Stop the hate!

Those books?

Stop the hate, Deborah!

Mr. BB King: The Thrill Is Gone

“The thrill is gone
The thrill is gone away
The thrill is gone baby
The thrill is gone away
You know you done me wrong baby
And you’ll be sorry someday”

“. . .funny how things change. . .”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtm66Z3lebc

If it’s without his beloved telepromtor, he will fail in a debate.

…like a deer caught in the headlights.

Well said Clinton Fan!!

What percentage of Blacks in this election won’t vote for White Person?

lol,

I guess Little Debbie really is like a Nutty Bar.

http://www.littledebbie.com/products/NuttyBars.asp

a White Person.

I really can’t stomach non-editing features in a free blog.

Easy, lil’ Deb when one is so transparent. Go along now.

Won’t it be nice when the Republicans take over the heavy lifting? Can’t wait to sit back every night and laugh myself silly while they dismantle this poser.

Gee Debbie Does Dumbass with all of the on-line names –

Don’t hurry back Debbie/Dr. Wang/SFHillary.

debbie continues to be drunk with the Obama kool-aid. Please sober up, Obamabot.

Did you pull that statement out of you ass before or after I proved your statement false.

What is really disturbing is that they really can’t get it. He is using an argument that I didn’t make. He is in essense talking to himself. I didn’t say that anyone party or voter picked up the phone more than the rest. I was saying that the polls are not an acurate representation on how the election will go. But apparently they don’t get it, so i regress.

I can’t tell you that because I don’t have ANY data about those whom didn’t pick up the phone. I can’t tell you if they are republican or democrat or if they will vote for a particular canidate. I can’t tell you ANYTHING about those people. I certainlly can’t make the claim that they are porportional to those whom did pick up the phone because that data isn’t available to me.

They aren’t stupid. They’ll wait until all the heavy lifting is accomplished. Then, rather like their PREY, they will sweep in at the last minute, dismantle the guy, and take all the credit!

It’s a “takes one to know one” strategy….and they’re experts. Obama thought he was “the shizzle” taking Clinton apart…her crime was she didn’t think a fellow Democrat could be that fucking soullessly vicious, especially with that race card.

Like “The Porge” sez: Fooled me once, heh heh heh…won’t git fooled aGIN!

Obama wins if election is today in…Europe.
I love that one-had to repeat it.

The “admit” / “know someone” numbers come in again and again at c. 5% / 15-20%. From a market research perspective, you assume the latter response is code, and estimate 10% or more.

The “Bradley Effect” is also usually misrepresented. It’s not indicative respondents who are unwilling to admit a racist bias for not voting for the candidate, rather people who oppose the candidate for political reasons, but are afraid of being *perceived* by the pollster as a racist.

Barry’s profligate use of the race card is a double-edged sword. It shores up his white-guilt/buy-the-world-a-coke Dem base, but will kill him in the swing states in the general. Goodbye, Pennsylvania!

That’s the picture! Little Debbie in her nice little hat, about a size 4. Hahahahaha

Hey, Shakespeare–apparently you didn’t watch the Democratic Primary Debates! You’re living in a fantasy world where you believe the opposite of what actually occurred, I see.

You remember those debates, you know, the ones where Barry Uhmmmmmed, and Ahhhhhhhhhed, and hmmmmmmmmed through most of his answers, save the ones that he’d memorized? Where the media all said he “did poorly” and Clinton “wiped the floor with him?” Those debates?

It’s plain you’ve had too much KoolAid, there, “Author.” Put down the jug, honey. Or maybe you’d prefer “Sweetie.” Maybe add a bit less sugar to that drink, you seem to be having a reaction of some sort. You’re a bit, er, over-wound, Little Debbie.

Say, what WAS the name of your book, Little Debbie? A few people have asked you, and you fail to respond, for some reason. Come on, Ma Petite Shakespeare, don’t be shy!! After all, you’re an AUTHOR!! AND, you’ve been INTERVIEWED!! WOW–point us to those interviews, so we can sop up the majesty of your authorial wisdom, now, hmmmmmm?

If your candidate is winning, Little Debbie, why are you here? Do you feel compelled to insert defeat into the jaws of victory, all on your own? You’re telegraphing your fear with each and every post you make, and not helping your Adored One, either.

Or is it that you’re ill, unwell, in need of mental health counselling and medications? Do you have obsessive compulsive disorder, or are you simply a chubby little lonely girl with no friends, hoping to find some here, through your use of “witty” (cough) repartee?

You’ll probably not find a soulmate here, little Debbie. You might want to go back to working on that great opus, now “author!”

Poor Little Debbie. She can’t help it. She was born with a Size Ten FOOT in her mouth! (Hat tip to the late, great AR).

Keep trolling, Little Debbie, keep trolling. You’re a harbinger. With every post, we sense your fright, and the fright of your fellow bots!

I actually think it does.

It doesn’t matter if that sleazy dad of his went through a marriage ceremony with the naive and “we are the world” Stanley Ann, he was ALREADY married. Thus, any ceremony with Miss Dunham was INVALID. Which makes Barry an All-American “little bastard,” unconnected, legally speaking, to that cretin of a father….at least back in those days, before the advent of DNA.

Thank you. If I ever hear back from Mister Blow, I will post his comments here!

So I guess the fact that Kerry and Dukakis where ahead by BIG double digits this time in the summer and still lost means nothing to you?

Dukakis was running against Bush 1
Kerry, Bush 2 (after his disastrous 1st term)

Hardly a ringing endorsement, and Barry ALWAYS overpolls.

AND the Repubs have not even bothered to pull out their artillery on him yet — and they won’t till AFTER the convention when they are sure Dems are stuck with him.

Then we will see …

Shift change at bot central. lolwat, aka asshat on duty.

It does show how frightened they are, to hire someone quite so bullshitty (I’m an AUTHOR, I’ve been INTERVIEWED!!!) who not only does not have her basic facts in order, but who is trollish, as well.

Guess she didn’t get the “Don’t act like a fucking ass” memo that was posted up on the Daily Kook site a week or so back!

Of course, maybe she’s working for McCain, and only pretending to be an OBOT, hoping to push those write-in and third party voters over his way–if that’s the case, she’s doing a heckuvajob, Brownie, with her incessant whiney posts!

She just doesn’t get that we PUMA types FEED on this stuff. Every troll that comes here is a harbinger. They’re scared shitless over at Obama Central, and Little Debbie is a foot soldier, sent out to try to stomp out those brushfires.

Only problem is, we’re a wildfire now. And she’s trapped behind the firebreak!

It sucks to be an Obama Bot, nowadays, I’m thinking…

Obama went to Trinity united church for 20 years. He was married there, had his children baptised there. Rev. Wright based his teachings, his mission statement on Black Liberations Theology, which teaches that the White church is an oppressor of blacks among many, MANY other things. Cone, who wrote the most famous book about black theology, named the trinity church as the ideal representative of his theology….now, on youtube you will find videos of obama criticizing the bible…leviticus and the Sermon on the Mount….as well, he won’t put his hand on his heart during the star spangled banner. Now, to the presidential race…oh, sure, the issues are the same..economy, oil drillin, healthcare…normal things…however, WHO is the REAL obama?? Well as an intellectual, he is interested in truth…and 20 YEARS in a church listening to Devisive, scornful, hateful rhetoric from a man of God, but not the “white” god, but the black God is who obama is….he has an agenda, but it has nothing to do with white america….

god bless us all from this evil man

It’s obvious they are VERY AFRAID.

They’re beating this board like a kettle drum!

Feed on their fear–it makes us stronger…

Turned out to be sciatica…

Debbie,
You are being treated with “kid” gloves. When it comes time to insult you, you will most assuredly know it…

Why are (by some polls) over 90% of African Americans voting for Barack Obama? Because he’s Black, that’s why. Is that racist?

Larry, you just got to update your picture. Just got to.

On another note, its no time to start dropping the ball. There is enough out there were if 1 set of facts may be proven wrong (colb), he still hasn’t shown it.

But look, there is just too much vetting going on. I’m telling everyone I see that Hillary is going to take Denver. I tell you the looks I get. None of them even see it coming.

Somewhere, some great journalist please have a whole show on what you know to be true. Think of it. The journalist that breaks this silence “BIG TIME” by just using the truth about the situation. Don’t even slant it. Just the Facts now Just the Facts. That is all we are asking for. That reporters name will go down in history. The one that told the truth. If you wait until the convention starts then you will get drowned out. The earlier the better.

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NEEDS HILLARY. THE AFRICAN COMMUNITY NEEDS HILLARY. And I’m sure she could name all the different personalities

Results time and time again on a large and global scale. Knowledge of the inner workings of the world and will be a ‘PITBULL’ in the way of the world.

I do believe the African Community will realize the greatness she has and the love she has shown them.

The world does need healing.

I really admire the Puma community in handling any mis-information. I will hold other reporters and bloggers to stay at the same level.

Puma

I apologize. I guess Obama supporters should be more respectful of the constant wake for Hill’s campaign that occurs on this site.

She won? I missed that one. Who do you think will be her VP?

I think you are very sincere in your beliefs about Hillary and I mean you no disrespect, but I don’t believe Hillary will take Denver. As far as Hillary and the black community, Hillary didn’t do herself any favors with her statement after the loss in Indiana that she gets the votes of hard working Americans, white Americans. I’m not saying the tension is permanent. We’ll see how it all plays out.

That comment was manipulated, she was mentioning many groups, pausing in the middle and reciting a list –

she was not saying that ‘hard working Americans are white Americans’ although the media and Obama spun in that way — she was talking about ALL Americans who are hard working, and then was making a point about which demographics she was taking — because she was scoring higher with that particular vote than Obama.

Please, I am asking that we keep it honest here.

She never insulted any group as NOT being hard working.

What this Southern white man finds particularly amusing about the racism card is that I voted for an African-American woman to be the next Senator from the State of Alabama in the State’s Democratic primary back in June. And, she will have my vote come November.
I voted for a White woman for the 2nd Congressional seat during the primary, but she lost to a White man (when ANYONE in the State of Alabama is willing to run OPENLY as “pro-union” AND “pro-choice”, that person is going to get my support regardless of gender or race and that was why Cheryl Sabel got my vote, even though I figured she would lose); while I’m not overly fond of the Democratic gentleman’s more conservative stance, I know his record and will still vote for him.
In case anyone’s keeping score, that’s one vote for an African-American woman and one vote for a White man. I’ve probably confused the hell out of the Obamabots at this point. But the best is yet to come.
Barring some miracle in Denver at the end of the month, I intend to cast my vote for President for the Green Party whose nominee is Cynthia McKinney, an African-American woman (her VP candidate is also an African-American woman with strong ties to the Latino community). This White man will NEVER vote for Barack Obama, but it has nothing to do with Obama’s race–at this point in time, TWO African-Americans will be getting my votes. (Hell, I’d be willing to vote for Condi Rice over Barack Obama and her “experience” is as questionable as his. I don’t fully trust Rice as far as I could throw one of her pumps but I’d trust her over Obama any day. Between Rice and Obama, I’d be willing to throw myself in front of a bullet for her and I don’t particularly like Condi Rice.)

I must warn people that this–namely “race”, is a very tricky subject particularly when it surrounds Obama.

Ok, so 5% are openly racist, since they explicitly admit they won’t vote for a “black” candidate. One can safely assume that there are closet racist out there that should at least double the 5% figure.

19% say they know a “friend” who won’t vote for a black candidate. This figure may be accurate, and it may not be.

I know people who won’t vote a for an African American candidate simply because he is “black”. But for me, I actually liked Obama a lot right from the onset when he gave the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National convention. I continued to like Obama up to about January of this year which is when his mother-of-all race-baiting strategy kicked into full gear, (i.e. Hillary denigrated Dr. King, Bill played the race card with the Jesse Jackson comparison, etc.) So I would belong to the 19% but not the 5%.

Some of my greatest heroes are black: Mandela, Desmond Tutu,Dr. King, Philip Emeagwali (computer scientist),Forest Whittaker (actor), Duke Ellington, Nat King Cole, etc. And I guess I should throw in Michael Jordan. *rolls eyes* (I’ve taken Cornell West off of my list–permanently, since he inexplicably went from calling Obama a sell-out in 2007 to “a righteous brother, a decent brother, a brilliant brother…” by early 2008.)

Without question, all PUMA’s belong to the 19%, but not 5%. Anyone suggesting otherwise is race-baiting, as their vacuous Messiah likes to incessantly do. PUMA’s are Hillary and Bill supporters: Bill and Hillary respectively have stronger civil rights credentials than Barack, Michelle, and Jeremiah Wright put together. Don’t forget that Hillary has great civil rights credentials w.r.t. women & children. This is why civil rights legends like John Lewis, Maya Angelou, Charlie Wrangle, and others were all Hillary supporters. Other civil rights legends like Julian Bond were quite luke warm if not outright suspicious of Obama, the guy who by his own words (books), accomplished very little as a community organizer, and who is now living in the slumlord-Tony-Rezko-mansion. And of course, Jesse Jackson wants to cut Obama’s balls off.

With Obama in particular, the race/racist polling question and corresponding data are seriously muddled by the fact that he himself is a absolutely ruthless race-baiter. Yes, all racist are degenerates, but not all racist are the same. Some racist will lynch black people from trees, like Klansmen, Neonazis, and so on, while others will only use the N-word openly, or only mutter when in private with close friends and family, or merely mutter under their breath to themselves to ashamed to let anyone hear them say such a thing. Others still will only not vote for them “black” candidate.

Because not all racist are the same–to degree, intensity, and so on, the black person, or candidate, you place before them will surely evoke a different response. Put it this way, flash a picture of Mandela or Desmond Tutu to a bunch of racist and you’ll elicit a completely different response than that of flashing a picture of say–OJ.

Both Mandela and Desmond Tutu are universally considered paragons of virtue. Even most racist grudgingly respect them, whereas OJ is understandably hated by everyone, racist or not.

Where does Obama fit into these two extremes (archetypes/stereotypes of black men) where they’re either really good or really bad?

Well, Jesse Jackson Jr., an Obama campaign co-chair, very fittingly compared Obama to OJ: “The natural reminder here is O.J. [Simpson]—how does an African-American candidate attack a white woman?”

Source: http://www.slate.com/id/2181356/ (Jan 4, 2008)

The thing about Obama is that he brings out latent racism in whites, due to his constant race-baiting. Racist or not, no one likes to be called one, particularly those that are NOT racist. When asked before the Pennsylvania primary why he was having so difficulty with white working class voters, Obama immediately pulled out the race card: “They’re bitter…they cling… to antipathy towards those that aren’t like them… antipathy towards immigrants“.

Truth is, this was after the Jeremiah Wright story broke, where we all saw Wright’s racist demogogery and Obama’s very slippery explanations about being there or not being there. Working class whites had every right to be suspicious of Obama. Also, Bill and Hillary are known quantities to them: Eight magnificent years of peace and prosperity during the 1990′s. Working class whites had every reason to not vote for Obama and every reason to vote for Hillary. The same could not be said of Obama’s black supporters. Instead of addressing Wright and his slippery explanations about his church attendance, or of the unprecedented peace and prosperity of Clinton years of the 1990′s, Obama went straight for the juggular–stright for the race card. Without question, this ruthless race-baiting will not only elicit resentment from objective non-racist, but it will also bring out latent white racism, which could make the polling data suspect as to how it actually gauges anti-black racism in America.

If Nelson Mandela were able to legally run for prez in the US, would the polling data be the same? What if Collin Powell were the candidate and not Obama? That is, the data may be only reflecting Obama-Jeremiah-Wright, rather than that for a generic black candidate.

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Of course, we all know Obama is running as the American Nelson Mandela (as well as the “black Jack Kennedy”). Hint: Obama’s “change” message means he’s actually purporting to be the American Nelson Mandela.

http://www.jacobryanpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/shepard-fairey-008-up-obama-t-shirt-1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6bKGiAcs5s
—look at about 30sec into this GOP ad, where Obama says “A light will shine down on you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will say ‘I must vote for Barack!’”

Obama’s tapping into an archetype which he has no right to be tapping into. Make no mistake about it, this in and of itself is RACIST. If Obama is truly an honest man, a paragon of virtue, a heavenly vessel of “hope” and “change” as he incessantly claims to be, then it OK. If Obama really is another Nelson Mandela, then he and his supporters have every right to tap into the Mandela archetype. Understand that the OJ archetype (racist stereotype) is simply the flip side of the Mandela archetype where blacks are either seen as really good (saints) or really bad (demons). They are opposite faces of the same coin. (I don’t want to get too much into the social psychology of it all here, but…) This “opposite faces of the same coin” stuff applies to every situation, not just “black vs white” matters. That is, one can apply it not just to race but to age, gender, religious, ethnic groupings, and so on, or even sports team affiliations, such as Bears vs Packers or Yankees vs Red Socks fans. Race is but just one facet of this phenomena.

Obama, the incessantly flip-flopping and consummate race-baiting conman, by fraudulently tapping in the Mandela archetype is playing on the minds, for archetypes be they positive or racist stereotypes exist within our minds, of the typical white person. He knows and understands race relations. He knows how to play on these archetypes/stereotypes, i.e he knows how to push our buttons, and which buttons to push. He’s playing us all.

When Obama speaks of “change” he’s really saying that all these corrupt white people, namely Bill and Hillary, have run this government and this country into the ground. Only I, Barack Obama, the black man, America’s very only Nelson Mendela, can redeem this country, can save it, can “change” it.

In the OJ archetype (racist stereotype), a black man is inferior, he is lazy, he lusts after white women, he is a criminal, and all that Jim Crow, Willie Horton, Confederate flag, GOP crap.

In the Mandela archetype, the black man, who fits it, is BETTER than us. He is gifted, he is honest, he is a paragon of virtue. (This archetype is related to the “magical negro” motif which we see all too much now in Hollywood films, such as the “Green Mile” or “Bagger Vance” with Will Smith. Of course the MSM’s news reporting typically, i.e. deliberately, shows all black men as fitting the OJ archetype.)

This is why when people say Obama is arrogant and condescending, even though they really can’t pinpoint as to why this is so, they are nevertheless right. Their gut instinct is dead on. For an outsider, and Obama clearly sees himself as an outsider, better than us all, to FRAUDULENTLY tap into Mandela archetype, a racial archetype, this is in a word: RACIST.

Everyone agrees, it would be blatantly racist to call a black man just another OJ Simpson, e.g. white cops racially profiling an innocent black man. Likewise, a black conman, calling himself the American Nelson Mandela is also RACIST. He is NOT better than us, he’s just a conman.

Obamabots routinely get in over their heads proclaiming ad nauseum that “The subtext here is race!” and “I see Dicks!” (Bob Herbert), and so on. Yes, the subtext here is race, but it is also gender. However, Obama and his minions were constantly playing the a race card, the gender card, as well a character assassination. Remember, one can apply the archetypal “two opposite faces of the same coin” argument to gender too! On top of refusing to see their own racism and sexism, they incessantly see racism where there none exist.

Repeat: If Obama is truly an honest politician who has indeed achieved a lot, both in politics and his personal life, then he can rightfully tap into the Mandela archetype. But if he is not, (for he is a divisive race-baiting conman who incessantly flip-flops and exaggerates his mediocre credentials and achievements), then he has no right to, and to do so is RACIST.

But then again, Nelson Mendela wouldn’t be caught dead putting on a grotesque messiah act. He’s got way too much class for that kind of bullshit.

Slob, who is constantly asking Obama to win the white vote? It is no secret Obama is racist — Wright, Phleger, Moss, Meeks, MicHELLe, Ayers, etc. makes it difficult for any whites other than the guilters to vote for the bigot.

Are you someone who is willing to turn over his 401k or someone who has his hands out wanting to take others?

“I apologize.”

You have a lot of that to do.

That depends on what country you live in, I think Obama came out of your ass.

Slob, she was winning the white vote, without it she would have no chance — over 90% of the blacks went to Obama due to their racism.

I must be a dying breed, I don’t vote based on color or gender — I prefer to use such odd criteria such as credentials, character, experience, issues, etc. I missed the political correctness boat when it came by and that was by design. One can always pick out the PC people at a donut shop when they buy a dozen donuts they say, “I’ll take one of these, one of those, etc, but half of what I get I won’t eat because I don’t like them.”

“I actually liked Obama a lot right from the onset when he gave the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National convention”

I feel I was way ahead of the ballgame when I was wise to Obama early on, he never fooled me. I welcome all late comers none the less. Also I never make anyone attempt to demonstrate they are not racist to try and justify not voting for Obama, I prefer they spare me that nonsense. I feel there are very few white people who are racist, a much higher percentage are guilters. I also feel that racism among non-whites, especially blacks, is very high.

Why is there an “opposite faces of the same coin” phenomena to begin with? And how does it work?

Answer: Archetypes resonate. Or rather, the differences within archetypes resonate. It a consequence of the path of least resistance, myelination of neurons, etc.

Mandela archetype: Black + Saint
OJ archetype: Black + Devil

Typical White Person Archetype: White + Average

There are two categorical differences here:
1. Race: Black vs White
2. Morality: Saint & Devil vs Average

A white person will see a black person who is good and explain his goodness by saying: “Wow, what makes him so good is what makes him different than us, namely his black skin!”

The flip side is, a white person will look black person who is bad and say: “Wow, what makes him criminal is what makes him different from us, namely his black skin! I’m afraid of big black guys!”

The coin here is race. The opposite sides of this coin are the two diametrically opposite moral characters of the Mandela archetype and the OJ archetype (racist stereotype).

This argument can be reversed, if you will, and applied to “good” white missionaries working in Africa, i.e. impoverished Africans look at the selfless missionary and say: “He is good precisely because he is white! I will now convert to Christianity, glory halelujah!”

This argument can be applied with the coin being race and the opposite sides being basketball ability. This argument can be applied with the coin being gender, age, religion, politics (Dems vs GOP, capitalist vs commies, etc.), or even sports team affiliation.

This analogy explains why as African Americans correctly point out (when it has nothing to do with Obama and this election; when Obama is involved African Americans who support him TOTALLY and CRAVENLY LOSE any and ALL objectivity), that whites either see blacks a criminal or as Oprah, Michael Jordan or Bill Cosby. In the past, there was only the racist OJ archetype/stereotype. Now there is a polar opposite (positive) stereotype. Where is the middle ground, the middle archetypes? Human cognition tends to squash it. We focus on what is most blatantly obvious: DRAMATIC DIFFERENCES such as skin color and those individuals that are exceptionally good or bad. The middle boring stuff by definition doesn’t stand out. We simply overlook it.

As Dr. King once said: Judge a man by the content of his character and not the color of his skin.

An older and more familiar adage: Don’t judge a book by its cover.

One who utters “typical white person” is doing just the opposite. One who refuses to see acknowledge that “typical white person” is indeed racist is jumping in on the race-baiting bandwagon.

The application of this argument to gender reaffirms that Obama, the GOP, and the corporate media were all gender-baiting Hillary.

The application of this argument to race reaffirms that it was Obama who was doing all the race-baiting during the nomination process, and even in the general election. This argument also reaffirms that the GOP and the corporate media incessantly race-bait, i.e. Willie Horton, the Confederate flag, and the ubiquitous black crime/white victims coverage day in and day out, 24/7 on TV.

I suggest you look in on the term “micro-insults”, i.e. where a white guy taps his wallet or a white woman clutches her purse simply when a black/minority is near them, even in broad daylight in crowded areas.

You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. racial profiling by white cops is real. Racial profiling by US Customs is also real: Blacks are less likely to carry in contraband but are 8-9 times more likely to be searched.

Black cops don’t shoot innocent whites; its white cops who shoot innocent blacks and minorities in general, about once a year.

Also look into the hiring practices of employers: A black male with NO criminal record is often less likely to be hired than a white male with a criminal record. Blacks get shafted by the criminal justice at EVERY level. The sociological data is very clear on all these points.

The problem of blacks is that, to quote the great Barack Obama *sarcas*, they are “shaped and misshappenned” by white racism. That is they are extremely vulnerable to a machiavellian who plays the race card. This is why so many black celebrities and politicians play the race card when they get into trouble:

1. Marion Berry: Caught smoking crack
2. Halle Berry: 3 hit and runds
3. Michael Jackson: Dyed skin white and sleeps with white boys.
4. OJ Simpson
5. Tawana Brawley
6. Duke University Lacrosse team scandal
7. TuPac
8. Obama: Hillary had a 2:1 advantage in the black community as late as January 2008. Game’s over if he can’t get the black vote, and he got it the worst way possible.
9. Kwalmi Kilpatrick
10. Etc.

Even when the black celebs don’t race-bait themselves, their black supporters invariable do, which is what happened with Michael Vick.

This is not a joke: Seriously dude, you sound like one of those 5% to me.

And this is coming from a guy who completely despises Obama.

Absolutely nothing Obama said back in 2004, particularly on the national level, could be construed as racist or reverse racist. Of course, if you follow Chicago politics, which I do not, then you may have a point: His critics in Chicago, including African American activist, Alice Palmer, know him to be a ruthless asshole.

BTW, there are plenty of experiments in social psychology that backs this up. And you can bet your ass that the people in the media, on Madison Avenue, Carl Rove, Frank Luntz, James Carville, and so on, in one way or another know and use this when they are at work.

I think you are paranoid and full of crap.

I think you summed that up nicely. The Wright tapes are out. Republicans never use their hard stuff early on. We saw the damage the Wright tapes did, imagine what will happen when they do finally bring out the big guns and they will bring out the big guns. The fact that they considered the Wright tapes to be nothing in the primary should make Obama people very nervous.

Why dont they ask “would you vote for Hillary if she were the nominee isntead of Obama?”

My wife and I have voted Republican for our entire voting lives (since the first Bush)… we both believe we would vote for Hillary this year if she were an option.

I think that sums it up quite nicely.

These pollsters act as if voters don’t have valid complaints about Obarnum.

Yep. That’s the most important point of all. We’re not talking about any candidate. We’re talking about this candidate.

I have posted these same comment at least a dozen times, but I think I need to do it again. Obama can not win the general election. He will lose all of the south and the border states (M leads in MO. by 7 points), all of the normal red states and he will lose one or all of the following, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and, New Jersey. Rasmussen polling has it 45 to 43 % Obama and in Iowa the lead tighens to 46 to 41, Wisconsin it is down to 4 (was 11 a week ago) and Michigan is 47 to 41. All of these state polls have 12% or more undecided. There are little or no AA in these numbers and they represent the Nader, Barr and undecided. When this vote breaks very little will go to Obama and he will lose.

Halle had 3 hit and runs? She covered that up quite well. Marion Barry is a joke.

I knew that Hillary had the majority of our vote, and Obama destroyed that the dirtiest way he knew how, which was to say that Bill and Hill were racists. I mean seriously, Bill Clinton a racist? He went from being considered the first African-American President to that?

If I were Bill Clinton, I would tell The Lyin King to kiss my a**! Backtrack knows he was wrong, and probably can’t even look Bill in the eye.

When Obarnum was initially in fear of losing the Black vote, Meshelle was on t.v telling us to “wake up!”, then when he started getting over 90% of the Black vote, MSM told us that fact over and over and over, but some don’t see that as wrong. But on the flipside, the minute Hillary says that she is getting the White working-class vote, that means that she is racist.

They knew damned well that his sorry crackhead self wasn’t Presidential material, and I IMMEDIATELY knew that he was brought in to break up the relationship that the Clintons had with African-American voters.

Now we are finding out that Brazilla is friends with Rove? This campaign reeks of corruption.

I want Hillary to pull out a win at this convention, and win in the general election.

I’m not considered about her being branded a racist.

The media has thrown so much sh!t at her, SHE’S the one who will eventually brush her shoulders off. She’s tough. They can call her any names that they want, but in January, I want them to call her:

President Hillary Clinton.

I agree Phishmelt,

The African-American community does need Hillary, but so much pride is getting in the way.

So many of the Black people I know support the issues that Hillary believes in, but it’s like they feel like they have to support a brotha, even if his policies will bite them in the ass.

I think that if the mainstream media were to actually do their job, report all of the facts about Obama, many African-Americans wouldn’t have a problem with having Hillary as the official nominee.

Many unBlack Americans are simply hiding what they really believe, that Blacks will be unfair to all other races if they are given power. Blacks will always favor other Blacks no matter what choice maybe. What many unBlacks believe and think in regards to Obama comes back to one event: The trial of OJ Simpson. Those Black jurors saw the power they had as a majority thanks to Johnny Cochran and that idiot Marcia What’shername and they did what they do. They freed a murderer because they could and the motivation was retribution for past injustices. Black people have a one track mind when it comes to retribution, they want it, all of them want it. If they are given power they will get their retribution one way or another. Remember the shock on unBlack faces when the verdict was announced, remember the cheers from the Blacks? Do you think that lesson learned has gone away? UnBlacks are waiting to vote in November and Obama is payback time.

yes obama is winning in that poll + or – the 10,000 callers who didn’t pick up.

I don’t vote based on color or gender — I prefer to use such odd criteria such as credentials, character, experience, issues, etc.

Agreed. For me, that means Hillary.

Obama winning is a fantasy scenario. He has truly lost any hope of that. He always overpolls. Half these media outlets doing this polling have shown their bias towards him in the past.

Not a realistic argument. Sorry.

Look in the mirror my friend.

You make about as much sense as the bots. You obviously are not connected to reality. Everything I assert is based on either hard sociological, criminal, or economic data. I’m speaking based on reality.

I’m also basing what I’m saying on experiments done repeatedly replicated in social psychology. Madison Avenue (corporate America) pays big bucks for this type of research, check out the name Clotaire Rapaille. Practically every other company lines up and pays him $$$ MILLIONS $$$ for his research into archetypes and whatnot. Rapaille is a French guy who started out as a psychoanalyst, but is not quite the sought after ad guru.

Ask yourself this question, douchebag: Why are they paying Rapaille the big bucks to do Freudian type marketing research & analysis, if it doesn’t work?

I believe it was American Airlines who actually paid him to design the interiors of their jetliners, using all manner of subconscious cues, to relax the passenger, to make them, more or less to fall in love with AA. Many if not all, major auto makers hire him too for interior design. He is HUGE.

Read this bitch:

Archetype Studies has been successfully guiding its clients’ interests in Marketing, Advertising, Research and Development, and Personnel since 1976. The reputation earned as the premier firm in breaking the code of the Cultural Archetype has come as a direct result of our commitment to customer satisfaction in implementing this unique process.

Once we have, together, discovered an Archetype, it is YOURS. Archetype Studies will not duplicate your study in the same culture, and will always give you priority to explore it in another culture.”

Source: http://www.rapailleinstitute.com/

Why are archetypes important? Because we think in and process information, our surroundings, the world, EVERYTHING, in terms of archetypes. It is both a strength and a weakness–as everything is in life. If you know how the human mind works, you can mess with it.

Hint: The archetype to human cognition is like a subroutine, or even the algorithm, is to a computer scientist.

And just to let you know, the analysis here is my own, not Rapaille’s or anyone else’s. And yeah, it’s at least as good. :- )

PBS did a great documentary on advertising which included this guy:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/interviews/rapaille.html

You can see the entire episode somewhere on their website. It’s called “The Persuaders”. Watch it, you hopeless light-weight.

Note: There was one line which I objected to in the documentary asserting that many if not most ad campaigns fail suggesting that the techniques used are not effective. BULLSHIT. Ad campaigns fail because they are up against even more effective, better thought out ad campaigns.

The media and political consultants like Frank Luntz, Rove, Carville, are all neck deep into this type of stuff in one form or another.

P.S. If you want to understand the “liberal medi”a, go to the FBI/DOJ websites and study the shit outta the current picture and past trends of crime in America. Then compare to crime coverage on the media. There is no connection between the two. That WILL tell you everything–about the “liberal media” and about yourself.

but is not quite the sought after ad guru.

Oops, meant to instead say: “but is NOW quite the sought after ad guru.”

If there are any other misplaced or missing negations, correct it yerself. For once, use you’re coconuts, man.

“I feel I was way ahead of the ballgame when I was wise to Obama early on, he never fooled me. I welcome all late comers none the less.”

NO. You’re just a racist tool. Without question one of the 5%. Nothing Obama said in the 2004 DNC keynote speech could be interpreted as machievellian or race-baiting. He was only being a dutiful cheerleader for the party and John Kerry.

Now, if you had followed Obama’s rise in Chicago and Illinois, which I didn’t, then you’d know him well and are justified in calling him a conman. Otherwise, you’re the paranoid guy who’s full of crap.

But your comments in their totality suggests the former rather than the latter assertion.

Hint: Try looking into hard data, sociological, economic, criminal, etc., rather than talk out of your ass. Every other PUMA here is not saying what you are saying. They only say that Obama and the black community have resorted to the worst race-baiting in this election cycle. And that’s all were saying.