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Econ 101

By Kevin on August 11, 2008 at 9:00 PM in Barack Obama, Economy, Energy Policy

OK, this really isn’t economics 101, but a more topical discussion of the impact of BHO’s proposed punitive windfall profits tax on oil companies. Now, economics makes most folks get glassy-eyed, so I will spare you the math and theory, those who care to seek out the theory, the writing and the math please do so. My education is in Economics, Natural Resource and Environmental Economics to be specific. So, I have a bit of an understanding of what a tax on a commodity does.

It doesn’t matter what you call it, windfall profit tax, corporate income tax or Help My Poll Number’s are Falling and I Need Some Poll Viagra Tax Stunt.

What I have to say is this.

It is a really, really bad idea.

For numerous reasons, including:

Higher energy prices for one.

It is called price-elasticity. Oil prices have to increase greatly to impact demand a little.

So, the oil companies will simply raise prices to offset an increase in their costs.

Which we really don’t need.

Higher energy prices will cause higher prices for nearly everything else.

This is called inflation, class.

And, if you make the cost of doing business in the U.S. higher for most industries, what do you think will happen?

Anyone?

Bueller?

They’ll go where costs are lower.

This will increase unemployment, weaken the U.S. economy, and increase our trade deficit.

But these are the (relatively) good things.

Why do I say that?

Because it will discourage domestic production, which will increase the power of countries that do not punitively tax oil production, like our friends in.

Saudi Arabia (you know where most of the 9/11 folks were from)

Iran (our buddy, and Israel’s too)

Venezuela (aiding Narco-terrorists)

It’s that national security thing, again.

And is more than likely another stunt, meant to placate the electorate rather than a real policy idea from the man who voted for the Cheney Energy Bill. And who has taken money from the Oil industry.

You see, with falling poll numbers, the BHO campaign is getting desperate, and with energy policy being the flavor of the week, a little punishment for the big, bad, mean, greedy oil companies is just the thing to right the good ship Hope.

It’s just that one thing.

He doesn’t mean it.

Like a lot of things.

Just another talking point.

steven Mather

Kevin,

Are you arguing that taxing WINDFALL profits will cause the price of oil-based products to increase?

If the oil companies become distressed by taxes on WINDFALL profits, where can they go?

SM

Zeke

Off f**king shore, with their infrastructure jobs and everything else they can take short of the pumps…
Jeeze

The f**king government makes more on a gallon of gas than anybody. They will always get their cut. This windfall profits tax DOES NOT LOWER PRICES. It forces them up.
Here’s Economics 102… Whenever an excuse arises which will allow you to raise prices to “reflect increased costs,” do so.
Windfall Profits Tax, for those of you not driving in the 70′s allowed oil companies to jack prices SKY HIGH and keep them there. Carter’s head was so far up his ass that it never came out. Thank God all he usually f**ks up now is a cut on a board for Habitat. Just keep the fool out of the Middle East. Its like sending Nathan Bedford Forrest to judge a rap contest.
Do some math on this crap. The government Never takes all the windfall, they just take what they can, leaving plenty of profit for the oil companies too.
Where can they go?
To the Olympics!

Ferdberfle

The oil companies aren’t blameless in this. That being said, it is the speculators who should be reined in–and hard.

simanov

Than oil will not be traded on American markets and these jobs go off shore.

PadrePIo

Screw this nonsense. We have to suck corporate ass or they take their ball and go home. I got news for all of you they are doing it anyway. So I say tax the shit out of them and if they leave tariff the shit out of them. The GAO not an Obama front group just released their findings over from 1998 to 2005 66 percent of all domestic companies 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes. These corporations feel free to use our harbors, roads, bridges, airports, and nay other infrastructure without paying for it. Screw them all.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080812/ap_on_bi_ge/corporations_income_tax

MEchelle Hates America!

It’s not about taxing them, it’s about collecting the taxes owed.

Good luck with that as the IRS only goes after little biz.

http://www.sugarnspice.typepad.com Sugar

The speculators are merely doing their jobs. This whole blame the speculators thing is another trick by the party bosses.

steven Mather

Zeke,

A) As you note at the end, taxes on windfall profits are taxes on profits over and above what would count as very good profits. Because oil companies are successful functioning at levels below windfall profits, it is illogical to conclude that some taxation on windfall profits will cause prices to rise.

B) What influence do oil companies sacrifice by severing their connection to the US mainland? Further, what percentage of the world’s oil reserves are open to development by private companies? Why would these companies sacrifice their influence over a tax on windfall profits?

SM

SM

Zeke

Steve,
My point is that the oil companies will use the tax as an excuse to raise prices, knowing they can still increase profits regardless.
As to moving their infrastructures, that is still eminently doable as they lease their stations out to franchisees.
Envision McDonald’s moving their corporate headquarters to Belize. People still eat at Mac’s but the money goes away.
Budweiser is another example only in that the end result is that a big corporation Somewhere Else owns it now.
Again, with oil, it only requires an excuse. I remember that they once raised prices because they had intentionally decreased production.

Kevin

I suggest you take a course in economics. The math is really simple for starters. The demand for oil is relatively fixed. i.e. inelastic. What that means is that if the government raises the cost of oil, i.e. a tax, the price will increase, but the demand will not change very much, thus the price paid by the consumer will go up.

yttik

Yes, but I believe the point of a windfall profit tax is not really about collecting money from the oil companies. (Or in Obama’s bizarre world, he’ll supposedly collect this tax and send us all a thousand dollars.)

I think the purpose of a windfall tax is to encourage, to manipultate oil companies to invest in refinaries, in looking for oil, etc. They don’t pay taxes on money they reinvest. With the price of oil going up, they know consumers can only take so much. The amount of gas we use doesn’t always remain fixed, we do have a breaking point. Right now, people are already driving less. You can’t get blood out of a turnip.
steven Mather

It is a small matter to tax windfall profits and to prevent price gouging. Further, current short-term shortages are manufactured in the sense that the bottleneck is a lack of refining capacity. Most of the capital expenditure in refineries in the last 15 years in Canada and the US has been dedicated to cleaner production. Frankly, unless you can earn much more by producing more refined product sold at lower unit prices, then there is no advantage in developing more refining capacity, especially given a finite resource base. This is the same problem that plagues electricity production.

MEchelle Hates America!

No. It is a big matter. Do you even live in the U.S. and/or are you another Socialist like poster Charles Lemos?

Do we windfall tax big drug companies and dot.coms? What about Microsoft and Apple?

Who decides which companies?

It’s an extremely unAmerican idea.

If you want to regulate what a corporation can do for national security including securing the public trust and for

police powers – think health and safety – fine.

The problem is that the government hasn’t ensured our security by getting into the refinery business. And nobody wants a refinery in their backyard.

So, the oil companies take the less expensive route to deal with unrefined crude oil and ship it to the highest bidder for refinement anywhere in the world.

John

Yeah, you shouldn’t title an article about windfall profits taxes “Econ 101″ if you can’t quite grasp the concept of a windfall profits tax. Implemented correctly, a WPT leaves oil companies no incentive to raise prices on gasoline. A WPT would leave oil companies with a solid but not outrageous profit ceiling, and stabilize gas prices.

And please, fellow posters, save me the “SOCIALISM!” and “COMMIE!” flaming. That’s just a dodge. There’s nothing wrong with the government stepping in to prevent price gouging. There is, however, something VERY wrong with oil companies making record-smashing profits at the cost of the American economy.

MEchelle Hates America!

John –

They are two very different things – regulating price and windfall taxes.

You clearly don’t understand the differences between the two.

Maybe you should take a look at the insurance industry by way of contrasting and

study what you’re discussing.

Eric

So…was this a bad idea when Hillary Clinton had it?

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=7354

Just curious.

imustprotest

Hillary’s plan called for the revenue from the WFP tax to pay for a gas tax holiday for comsumers. She also required federal oversight to make sure the cost did not get pushed back to the consumer.
etc.

Obama certainly thought it was a bad idea at the time. Another flip-flop from the pancake man.

VJ

Kevin,

Wrong on all counts.

Actually, the only time in recent history that domestic oil production increased is the last time there was a ‘Windfall Profits Tax’ in place.

Worked like a charm. That’s why Senator Clinton was in favor of it now.

You’re merely promulgating Big Oil propaganda.

yttik

No, he’s not wrong on all counts. It’s a good post, it’s just over-simplified. A windfall tax done the right way in combination with other things could be a good idea. But simply blathering about making the oil companies pay like Obama does is just pointless pandering.

The part that’s not mentioned here is that when you increase taxes on a company they don’t always turn around and pass the additional costs onto the consumer, they sometimes invest more money into their business as a way of reducing their profits. So a windfall tax could be a good idea if it encouraged oil companies to improve refinaries, look for more oil, etc.

If you read Hillary’s plan, it was detailed and the windfall profit tax was only one piece of the puzzle.

Zeke

“Aye, there’s the rub!” Nobody is allowed to search where the oil is. (thank you ms. pelosi) Offshore is still a dream and right now, still banned. ANWAR is the size of some city parks (probably a facetious statement) and there is oil there, BUT! Even if you could get the oil out…
The regulations concerning new Refinery construction are tighter than a frogs rectum and so restrictive that we haven’t built one since, I think, the 70′s.
We send the stuff to China and PAY them to refine our oil into gas that they fill their tankers with and send to… us.
Outsource windfalls you say? Impossi…. heyyyyyyy!

John

Um, the oil companies asked for and received leases to drill on millions of acres of land. If there is “no oil there” (great job channeling Sean Hannity,) why did those companies request leases on that land?

It’s an old ploy- where’s the oil? Anywhere the oil companies are not allowed to drill. That’s where the oil is. Except for when the oil companies want to sell us oil. Then there’s plenty of oil in other places.

Oh and Zeke, if you are going to quote Hannity, you ought to at least credit him with a footnote. Otherwise, your post is just plagarism.

MEchelle Hates America!

John -

It’s shale oil, which is wildly difficult and destructive to take out.

Not to mention expensive.

The other oil fields aren’t big producers or they would be tapping them.

Your premise that they only want to drill somewhere where they would have to purchase new rights is illogical.

I don’t trust oil companies, but there is a science to their business and like all corporations they are in business to make a profit.

Kevin

Do you not understand basic price elasticity? OK
Time for school. The link below has pictures so the obots can follow along.
Read
Learn
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2899

elise

Kevin, I understand absolutely nothing about economics. I signed up for an Econ. 101 and attended maybe two weeks, found myself falling asleep and dropped it. I do have a question, however. Did the Cheney Energy Bill include subsidies of approx. $6 bil. for the oil companies and didn’t Obama vote in favor? So what would be the overall effect on the economy, if the US government stopped the subsidies and did Obama address that in his “Energy Plan”. And, how much of that $6 bil. has actually been used for the stipulated purpose of research and development?

MEchelle Hates America!

Elise –

There is the problem.

Oblowme’s bad judgement. And a lack of Congressional oversight once again.

Perhaps if Junior Senators like McCaskill and Oblowme actually paid attention to their jobs instead of constantly campaigning this wouldn’t happen.

McCain didn’t vote for the Bush-Cheney Energy Disaster.

http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

Oh goodie, another Carter malaise. I just can’t wait….

Peggy Sue

Yeah, me too. I unfortunately remember the Carter years. I was a young, 20-something in the 70s. We didn’t need to worry about high gas prices because there wasn’t any gas to worry about. Inflation was out of sight and no one could buy a house because interest rates were through the roof. My husband and I and two babies lived in a phone booth house until Carter was defeated. Good man, well-intentioned man, but Jimmy Carter was a disaster as a President.

People were shooting one another for gas during Carter’s reign, remember that???? Yeah, they sure were the Golden Years!

And those windfall profit taxes on the oil companies? Hello? Did not work. If anything the strategy made things worse, big time.

So, please. Don’t mention Jimmy Carter to anyone who lived through those years. Because we remember. How in the hell could we forget?

Trust me, it wasn’t pretty. I don’t want to go there, again. Not even if you knit me a pretty sweater.

Zeke

Ah, Nostalgia!
I had a ’59 Bug Eye Sprite then and its tank held seven gallons. I carried a five gallon Gerry-Can behind the seats and when the gas was rationed, instead of getting in line, I’d pull in behind the place, take my can and walk up to the guy and I’d tell him I ran out of gas in line and he’d fill that can…
Statute of limitations is over on that so I’m safe to tell the tale now…
That, Peggy Sue, was the sucky part of that era, but could you do the “Bump?”
John

If we had adopted Carter’s energy policies in the late-70s instead of laughing at them, we’d be virtually energy-independent today. The energy crisis didn’t start with the Carter presidency and wasn’t caused by it. And thirty years later, we are in a much deeper hole when it comes to energy than we were then.

Blaming Carter is a lot of fun (for some people,) but it’s not really based on any factual information. Carter inherited the Nixon-Ford economy and horrible Middle East situation, the media and the GOP took his common-sense energy policy and mocked it, and as a result that energy policy stayed stuck in neutral for the next generation.

Oh and BTW, I do remember being asked to keep our thermostats at 68 degrees, and wearing a sweater around the house. This winter, how many millions of people will walk around wearing TWO sweaters because they can’t AFFORD to keep their thermostats above 62, or will be unable to pay their fuel bills at all?

yttik

Obama is so full of crap. Vote for me, I’m going to give you all a thousand dollars to help you buy gas! Just like George Bush’s stimulus. Meet the new boss, just like the old boss. Except this fool insults our intelligence by pretending to be all about something new. Change, change, change. Bah humbug.

Obama is a bum

The new math is called Obamath, he’ll give a $1000, and take $10,000 then claim you are better off because of him. Just like the Obamath where if people increase tire inflation then it will save more gas than drilling offshore.

I fail to see how people arrive at the point where they think Obama is intelligent — I don’t see that, I’ve never seen that. I was a lot smarter than Obama when I was in high school, perhaps even elementary school. I think Obama is a dumbass and I am not afraid to say it.

debbie

Hey, it’s a bunch of Republicans criticizing Obama’s policy toward taxing oil companies!

Donna Brazile

Oh the good AUTHOR DEBORAH can’t seem to leave to blog or answer a simple question.

It’s okay that your books probably aren’t doing very well in sales although they may be outperforming Pelosi’s. I think ABC books have a larger sales demographic.

Stop the hate!

debbie

Oh – you’re still here? I watched Phelphs win his third gold medal.

Donna Brazile

Did you write “The little swimmer that could” or was that TOO advanced for you?

Stop the hate!

debbie

You are such a card!

Kevin

Boycott the olympics, brought to you by NBC, home of Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, and slave-labor in China.
Donna Brazile

Just following the Good AUTHOR’s lead!

Three whole books and you won’t grace us with the title of not nary a one.

One you’ve even completed 7 of 9 chapters.

I just can’t believe we have an AUTHOR in our midst sharing such compelling ideas and is so modest about his/her/it’s accomplishments.

Stop the hate!
Obama is a bum

And you are the race card touting Obama.

Obama is a bum

Good for you, do you expect to get a medal for watching him? At least learn how to spell the man’s name if you are going to make a big deal out of watching him.

Kevin

I’m commenting on a STUPID policy that has no basis in sound economic theory. And guess what sweetie? I’ve been a democrat since I had the choice between Walter Mondale and Ronnie Reagan. Who did you cast your first presidential vote for?
My bachelors is in environmental and resource economics, and this is stuff they teach at the sophomore level. Look at the link, learn something, then feel free to comment.

debbie

My first presidential vote was for Carter over Ford but I volunteered in the previous presidential election. So you could imagine how good I felt in August 1974 when Nixon resigned.

Kevin

And did you learn nothing, or have you chosen ignorance? My point is that the proposed windfall profits tax is just another bone thrown to the pack of hungry dogs that are mad at paying $3.50-$4.00 a gallon. The fallacy of capping prices or going after speculators is made evident by the fact that this is a global market, america cannot control it anymore than we can control the setting of the sun. What we can do is increase domestic production, increase the development of alternative energy sources, decrease our dependency on foreign oil. Trust me, I’m no fan of exxon/mobil, BP, Shell, Citgo or any other oil company. But don’t try to tell me that a windfall profits tax will do anything but increase prices at the pump and the cost of heating oil and the resulting increase in everything that it takes gas or diesel to make and deliver to your local Walmart. It’s just a stupid, pandering stunt by someone who doesn’t get it, and whose paycheck is most likely not strained by the current energy crisis. It’s a gimmick.

WildChild

It may be a global market, but oil futures are traded in New York.

935 Lies

ANd Singapore, and KL, and Hong Kong and London.

Why did we bomb Saddam’s sorry ass?
Why are we looking for an excuse to bomb Iran?

Same reason: the threat that they would price their crude in Euros versus GringoBucks (US dollars).

The oil companies won’t go offshore very far, because they, through the Republican appointees, own the Federal courts now.

They’ve all been “nationalized” in one shithole or another over the last 70 years – Cuba, Mexico, Venezuela. They want to stay where they get the best Return on their investments safely.

Obama is a bum

Don’t you have a good track record? Anyone who is bragging about voting for Carter is not playing with a full deck.

http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

Oh cut the crap. I was a Democrat when you were still having bladder accidents at school. What I’m NOT is a socialist, a marxist or a communist. Is that all right with you?

Kevin

My first economics professors were all marxists from 1960s Harvard. And even they would get this for what it is.

Obama is a bum

Good for the Republicans, somebody has to criticize Obama’s silly tax increases. I think Obama made too much money from the book he sold and he should be taxed more on his profit — especially for what a piece of sloppy work that probably contains a lot of fiction. In case you have not figured it out yet, Obama is a compulsive liar.

Postmaster

Since I’m not an economics major, I can’t speak to the pros and cons of the ‘windfall tax’ so that we can all have a thousand dollar rebate. I can say this however, what right does the government have to take from A B and C and give to D E and F? Anytime you have a President who wants to be a Robin Hood and take from the rich, give to the poor, redistribute the wealth, if you will, we’ve got a BIGGER problem than just the price of gas. Does this also mean that if my neighbor, Joe, makes 10 times the salary do, he is expected and required to give some to me to level the playing field? The answer to me is simply, drill, drill drill until we are no longer dependent on foreign oil…do whatever we have to do, new technology, research, whatever it takes. Be very leery of a government big enough to ‘fix’ everything for everyone, if the government is big enough to take care of all of our needs, it’s big enough to take away everything as well. America is a great country, always has been, it is a land of opportunity, land of the free and home of the brave….let’s keep it that way and vote the bums out that want to change it so much none of us will recognize it.
Hillraiser429

Just one more reason I’m not voting Obama.

25 Hints You’re Not Voting for Obama (take the test!}
Peter Kirsanow at the National Review’s The Corner provides 25 tongue-in-cheek hints that you might not be going to vote for Sen. Obama in the general election.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDJkNGE0ZjQ0NjZhZjMzMGM2MWFlNjcxZWZlNmQ5ZGM=
Freedom Fighter

Man, you guys are sounding more and more like Repubs by the day. Free market economics now? What next? Social Darwinism?

Donna Brazile

Oh the racist accusing Freedom Fighter is back calling people republodemoindy’s.

Aren’t you tired of the hate yet?

Stop the hate!
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

Oh no! We want to be good little marxists and hand over our life savings that we sacrified for…..otherwise known as Michelle’s “Pie”. Later we LONG to move into Far Left Liberal Fascism. We long for it. You folks are caught up in your own irony. You are becoming that which you despised for 8 years.

debbie

Huh? What Obama is proposing is boilerplate Democratic policies. If you find it so far left, you are demonstrating that you are far right.

WildChild

are you kidding ? BOBO used the supply side argument to counter Hillary’s gas tax holiday.
http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com Uppity Woman

Boilerplate? The only boilerplate I see here is Jimmy Carter.

For chrissakes what are you, 20 years old? Maybe you read a paragraph in a history book? The only difference between Carter and Obama is Carter cared about human rights. He would have never ran and hid when a boycott for the opening of the olympic games was called for. But then he wouldn’t have been worrying about Chicago 2016 instead of ethnic cleansing. He wouldn’t have made a 5 million dollar buy in advertising for the games in that godforsaken country either. But beyond that, Obama is a rerun of the Carter Malaise. I would fully expect him to come on Teee Veee wearing a sweater and telling everybody how bad they are. Just what America needs. Some twit telling them to turn down the heat on their elderly family members till they shiver, stop eating so much and start walking to your job, even if it IS forty miles away.

Figuring out that taxing big oil corporations more is going to raise prices on everything for YOU only requires an MA over CA times 100 for 3 digits. And not even a HIGH three digits. Do you really think those big oil guys are going to cut down their profit margin for their stockholders? Really?
elise

Cheney Energy Bill=$6 bil. subsidy for oil companies. Obama vote=yea.
Obama is a bum

Lady, I hate to tell you this but you are a moron. Do you still ride the little yellow bus?

John

God, I love this site, but I absolutely can’t stand it when idiots begin to throw around “Marxist” and “Communist” talk whenever someone suggests that MAYBE oil companies should not be allowed to rape both the environment and the economy in pursuit of unlimited profits. All of a sudden I feel like I’m reading a blog that has been taken over by Sean Hannity, John Gibson and Mark Levin.

Here’s a clue: Taxes aren’t “Marxist.” They are how a society ensures that everyone (yes, even including the sacred oil companies) pay their share of the cost of maintaining that society.

And I hope that in the year 2008, calling people “Marxists” doesn’t shut them up as effectively as it did in, say, 1952.

MEchelle Hates America!

Why do you think that oil companies owe more than insurance companies? Or drug companies? Or dot.coms?

Or truck lines? Or hospitals?

The price of gas is regulated by the way.

And oil companies pay a huge amount of taxes.

Postmaster

Obviously Debbie doesn’t think Obama has had his hands in BIG OIL pockets as well.

Donna Brazile

Perish the thought!

What exactly did that vote for the Bush/Cheney bill do for big oil?
You want to refresh my memory Freedom Fighter or are you just about making racist statements?

Stop the hate!
debbie

Sure, he has some donations from oil companies. But McCain has far more.
http://opensecrets.org/pres08/sectors.php?sector=E

Donna Brazile

I’m not talking about DONATIONS. Geesh.

I’m sure the good AUTHOR covered this in one of his/her/it’s books on barackalatte ecomonics.

Stop the hate!

debbie

Then what are you talking about? Having one’s hands in big oil’s pockets normally means getting campaign contributions aka donations. And McCain has gotten far more from oil companies, as the link I posted showed.

WildChild

damn BOBO was more in the tank for the energy industry then Hillary was. It must have been his vote for cheney’s energy bill
Donna Brazile

I know the title of one of you books.

I thought I’d never figure it out.

The title of one of the good AUTHOR’s book must be that autobiography called “Three blind mice and I am one of them.”

I guess I can go to bed now. You might want to go to since your rhetoric is tiring.

Stop the hate!
Obama is a bum

Obama has gotten far more money from terrorists.

KarenAnn

Back in the early 1970s when OPEC shut off the oil spiggots to raise the price of oil, Ted Kennedy pushed through a Windfall Profits tax on the oil companies. By the late 70s inflation was in double digits, interest rates were in the 17-20% range, unemployment was up, inventories were at an all time high, etc etc. I for one do not want a repeat. What no one mentions regarding the high profits of the oil industry is the way they calculate the ‘profit’ on the sale of their inventories. If they are using the ‘first-in, first-out’ (fifo) method of calculation, their profit per barrel will be misleading. Using the fifo method a barrel of oil purchased a year ago at a lower price, then sold today at market price (higher/barrel than a year ago). Simplistically, without considering the cost of production, if they bought a bbl of oil a year ago at $52 and sell it a year later at $140, they have a large profit, right? Maybe. They now have to replace that bbl at the rate of $140 or higher. If market oil prices then fall they will have a loss on that replacement bbl. Not that I have a favorable opinion of the oil cos., but it should be noted that this political tool is maybe not what it seems.
http://www.latinorepublican.com DD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpcxkKlEFA
http://theheraclitanfire.blogspot.com/ craigdp

Interesting but, I think, much like a balloon: squeeze here… it bulges there.
Perhaps price controls would help: cap the price of gasoline and watch supplies dry up – instant conservation – a good thing, speculators have heart attacks – another good thing and ‘supply side’ magical fabulists die of apoplexy.

I say it’s a win, win, win…

Freedom Fighter

I am not sure why supplies would dry up, since the rest of the world still uses gasoline. Unless the rest of the world caps prices along with us, you might as well just ban gasoline in the US and force conservation. Win win win!

simanov

Easy on the drugs man, have a friend check out what you write before you send it out.

935 Lies

Nixon did Price Controls, remember?

All it takes to beat it os to assign a new Description and SKU to your product.
Now, it’s a NEW product, and not subject to the Controls.

Roofing, concrete and lumber producers did it, looting a few billion, and got away with it.

STOP THE HATE!!!

LDW

The government has to go after the speculators – otherwise they’ll do to the entire domestic market what Enron did to California. Taxing windfall profits? Yes, I think the oil companies can well afford to kick back some of the money they basically got for free.

Kevin

It will just shift the supply curve outward. The oil companies will simply increase prices, we’ll pay more and have less to spend for food, clothing, etc., which will also cost more due to increased costs of production.
and on and on it goes

debbie

Ah, it’s potted Econ 101. The real economists know that that sort of thing is a gross simplification that you teach to 18 year olds. You have to read the economics journals and understand econometrics to see the far more complex models used to capture actual economic dynamics.

WildChild

but it always go back to supply and demand. Speculators in the commodities markets are going to create larger swings in price as they trade the treads. If they don’t have a legitimate need to buy and sell they have no business being in the market.
Kevin

Do you have a point, or do you have a reason that can convince me of the merits of BHO’s economic policy? As I showed earlier, the supply and demand of oil are inelastic (that means the supply and demand curves don’t change significantly to price, thus if the price is increased through artificial means, such as a tax on profits, the result will be an increase in price, with no significant reduction in demand or the suppliers profit) Thank you for throwing out the term, econometrics, and yes, I do understand the theory and statistical models of econometrics. But do you? And yes, I must ask, but you and the rest of the collective never seem able to answer the simplest of questions.
Can you give me just one reason, only one, why I should cast my vote for him?
Try not to use the terms hope or change in your response.

Donna Brazile

You can’t ask the good AUTHOR to do that, can you?

I’ll wait and see what happens!

Stop the hate:-)

Kevin

Another sign of intelligent life captain

Pink Panther

Obama has people like Austin Goolsbe, Jason Furman and Paul Volcker on his economic team.

Paul Volcker is Chair of the Trilateral Commission.

Furman is one of Wal-Mart’s most prominent defenders. Some have stated that Jason Furman has overstated the potential benefits of globalization and social security private accounts.

Goolsbe is a professor in the business school at the University of Chicago and reported to be a member of skull and bones. He is considered a libertarian because of his economic philosophies which includes an argument that the best job of assimilating immigrants is the free market and not government. Goolsbee has said 60-70% of the economy faces virtually no international competition. Therefore, globalization is not a major issue.

Let’s face it-Obama is a globalist and America and American workers are not first on his list of concerns.

Obama truly considers himself a “citizen of the world.”

Kevin

Host: “Debbie didn’t answer in the allotted time. Too bad”
(hostess in cocktail dress frowns and looks sad, in a sexy pouty way)
Host: “Don Pardo, tell Debbie what fabulous parting gifts she’s won for playing, “Hope and Change”.
Don Pardo “Debbie, for playing , ‘Hope and Change’, you’ve won a brand new pony”!
Studio audience: “Yay”!
Don Pardo “And that’s not all, Debbie. You’ve also won an all expenses paid trip to the exotic and mysterious tropical resort of Gaza”!
Studio audience: “oooohhhh”!
Don Pardo: ” While in Gaza, you’ll share an exciting and fun-filled week sharing blogging time with Ramsesh and Akmehd, a rattan mat, and a suicide vest”
Debbie “ohmygod, ohmygod, ohmygod”!!!

Linda K

Kevin,
I couldn’t stop laughing at your game show simulation. I hope Debbie has a good time in Gaza!

Kevin

Debbie and all of Bobos little friends never answer the question. Ever.

Obama is a bum

You do not have a clue of what you are talking about, dumbass. If you are a typical Obama recruiter for the internet then Obama needs to drop that strategy. The Obama campaign consists of idiots.

935 Lies

Or, as the Aluminum Mfrs’s Ass’n president said:

“We’re going to make aluminum, and we’re going to make money. If you’re using our product because it’s cheap, plan accordingly.”

S T O P T H E H A T E ! ! ! !

cathnealon

All of you who just posted are very well informed and smart. You actually THINK. But BO is not pandering to you, he’s trying to win by appealing to the masses’ anger and hatred of oil companies whom they perceive as the bad guys. He doesn’t have a plan, he couldn’t care less about a detailed explanation and a course of action, much like GWB and his stimulus check he wants to try win hearts and minds with a few pennies thrown at them and shallow emotional appeals. He’s disgusting.
Elliott

With the increase in price for oil and gas, there has been a drilling boom in several parts of the country. The cost of drilling is enormous, and the risk is high as most of the easy finds have been drilled. When the profitability drops so does exploration. Most drilling is done by smaller outfits with the majors becoming partners or coming in later and drilling nearby. Additional taxes on producers will slow and/or cut new production. So if you want to do a windfall tax it will cut the reward to some extent for taking enormous risks to drill. Don’t get me started on offshore drilling because that is where the best fields are at present.
http://www.patriotroom.com Bill Dupray

McCain Hits Pay Dirt. AP: “McCain’s ‘Celebrity’ Taunts Are Bugging Obama”

Looks like Johnny Mac is warmed up now and throwing some heat. He tweaks Obama’s precious self-esteem and there’s Barry, sitting on the floor, feet out in front, with tears streaming down his face.

http://patriotroom.com/?p=1130

debbie

Since McCain ran that ad, Obama’s increased his lead.

imustprotest

hahaha! Just remember, “there’s no crying in baseball”!
Peggy Sue

That’s a lie and you know it. The internal polls are turning in McCain’s direction–9 out of 15 questions asked during the sampling favored McCain, not Obama. And even in the favorables, Barack Obama is slipping in his earlier numbers.

The percentages are tightening not expanding.

Mr.Murder

Lease rights to our resources go for pennies on the acre.

Place price ceilings on them.

Otherwise the windfall will see speculators sell abroad to boost their profits and drive this market up. They’ll even sell gas and oil to Canada to reimport as a way around this, provided the language we use in the bill.

If we try and place the tax on all oil it means we lose market share of Prudhoe to China. We export oil to increase prices here, something not a lot of customers are aware of. It also means less dollars get traded, so we must always try and weigh the results with that in mind. Since China buys up much of our debt and has the world’s largest trade deficit w/us that may be less of a concern on the whole. Although, without the cash exchange to mitigate the trade balance, debt transactions are more likely to spiral into the realm negative impact.

Windfalls place higher price ceilings in place and tax beyond that amount. We need lower ceilings in place with a tax rebate.

Otherwise they’ll run prices up to make up the difference. The other idea would be to place quotas upon on line drilling so oil markets can’t be a result of pure speculative action. They’d have incentive to pump oil to sale for profit instead of claiming less and marking the sales rate different to rip off lease holders(Cobell v. Norton, native American leases that produced under expected range or were claimed so).

“Getting off dependency of foreign oil” is a horse hockey term used for substation of producers and to stimulate the market price by narrowing market distribution. By decreasing imports we reduce supply to drive prices upward.

Any real plan for peak would actually curb demand. We took fuel rations in WW2. This war on terror must not be too important since we don’t need that, or a draft, to try and address it. The war on peak oil appears to be a case of the same.
Divide & Conquer

I guess my thought is, who else does this apply to? Are we talking percentage or $$$ to qualify as a windfall? In my world, CEO’s, HedgeFunds, Singers, Oprah, and others fit my thought track? So, which is it?

ohio

I have also thought of that. The oil companies profits are at 8%. Yet, Microsoft, Google and many more at a higher profit margin from 13 to 25%. It is a bad idea to punish a company because they make a profit. You will see companies flying out of the United States faster than you can say Obama. I agree with Kevin’s analysis. At least, that is what I have always been taught and I had to live through the Carter years and I don’t want a repeat.

MMI

The crisis in Georgia underscores why it is imperative that we become energy independent. Energy independence is an economic, environmental, AND national security issue. Senator Obama does not seem to understand this or else he thinks environment trumps the economy and national security. Someone needs to tell him Russia’s attack on oil pipelines is a bigger environmental hazard than oil exploration off the coast. Someone needs to tell him we have environmental regulations in this country, Saudi Arabia doesn’t.

Any realistic plan to help make America more energy independent requires expanding domestic drilling. I see no real facts to support the idea that we cannot drill and protect the environment at the same time. They keep telling us it won’t make a difference for another 5 to 10 years (where this number comes from is a mystery to me). Well, time doesn’t stop so it is better to start now rather than later. We need to attack the problem from all fronts: solar, wind, nuclear, sensible biofuels, hydro, battery, and oil. All of those will require time to develop. Delaying the problem will not make it go away.

Obama and Pelosi say opening the national petroleum reserves will help solve our energy problem. The current crisis in Georgia shows why that is NOT a solution to our energy problem. If any of the source or route for oil is destroyed or blocked, where will America gets its oil if we have depleted our reserves? Obama and Pelosi fail to understand the economic and national security issues involved. We are already sweating in summer, freezing in winter, driving less, and our tires are inflated. We are doing our part to make America more energy independent. Obama and Pelosi need to stop blaming the American people and start doing something about the problem.

Kevin

Signs of intelligent life

steven Mather

I agree.

Mr.Murder

The minute we become energy independent we would start pushing items with other countries still beholden the demand.

We have the tech right now to be energy independent in ten years time.

So we’ll forcing the market up and warring abroad. Got to cash in while we can.

http://www.sugarnspice.typepad.com Sugar

EXCELLENT POST Kevin. This is all such SIMPLE stuff, but BHO is counting on the masses to focus on the words profit and windfall where the oil companies are concerned. This is a capitalist nation and that’s just the bottom line. People produce a product and they want to get paid for it. I don’t know what in the world is so hard to understand about that.

Economists have been screaming about what we need to do to bring the prices down for a long time now, but I’m afraid to say, my beloved party is using the oil prices issue much in the same way the Conservatives use abortion to keep their base fired up.

I didn’t change my party affiliation from Democrat, but I will not be voting straight Democratic tickets anymore because this one issue [offshore drilling] has hopened my eyes up to just how corrupt politicians on this side of the aisle can be as well. Hillary or McCain ’08.
VJ

Kevin,

You’re the one in need of a remedial course in economics.

* Oil production INCREASED the last time a ‘Windfall Profits Tax’ was enacted.

* Oil production DECREASED when it was repealed.

Again, that is why Senator Clinton was in favor of it now.

YOU read. YOU learn:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zh1bveXc8rA/SJru7kVTyYI/AAAAAAAAAVs/kd_dqfwzktM/s1600-h/Clipboard01.jpg

Kevin

So you show me a chart? A line graph from 1977 to 1985? That’s relatively flat. What I addressed is the PRICE paid by the consumer, as a result of a tax on the profits made by oil companies. what you show is PRODUCTION. I’m so impressed. I must contact my graduate advisor and ask if he’s seen that. Oh, he died 15 years ago. Did you perhaps check further on the google search, like the second page?
Is that your best?
I pity you fool.

Andy Lewis

No, Kevin, it’s a really GOOD idea.
Anna

You can tell when Obamabots get worried when they come here and try and blah blah blah-LThey can go back to la-la land.OBAMA IS A LIAR-FLIP FLOPER AND DOESN’T CARE OF THE AMERICANS RIGHT’S! GO AWAY.OBAMA BOTS.

IT;S HILLARY 08
MCCAIN 08
Anna

WE ARE HILLARY’S SUPPORTERS THAT WILL NOT VOTE OBAMA- IT HILLARYSUPPORTERS4MCCAIN I

Pink Panther

According to one MSM reporter speaking tonight, we Hillary supporters WILL change our minds after the convention.

What kind of mind control does the DNC have planned?

debbie

No one even wants to go to the Republican convention.

Of the 12 Republicans running in competitive Senate races — five of whom are incumbents —- only three have said they will be attending the convention. Six are definite no-shows, and three are on the fence.

“Nobody likes a funeral,” said a Senate Republican press secretary who spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing “the overall climate of general malaise about the party” as the reason for hesitance on the part of Republicans.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12476.html

Pink Panther

“debbie”
Did you read the follow-up story about the two brothers (Monir & Hosam Edwan) from a Hamas Compound in the Gaza Strip, who claimed to be living in the non-existent town of “Rafah, Georgia” and contributed between $24,000 and $33,500 to the Obama campaign?

The Obama campaign said they refunded the contributions but forgot to report the entire affair to the FEC due to a glitch. The brothers said they never received the refund.

The FEC sent 2 letters to the Obama campaign seeking additional information regarding contributions that appeared to exceed the $2300 legal limit.

Among those questionable contributions, were donations from Monir and Hosam Edwan. On July 30,2008, the FEC requested additional information for sixteen pages of questionable contributions, including several of Monir Edwan’s contributions.

Can’t wait to read the clarification letters from the Obama campaign.
imustprotest

Now that’s very refreshing. The conventions have become nothing more than a dog and pony show. It’s so nice that the repubs don’t feel they have to have a fake unity shove-it-down-our-throats coronation!!! Good for them!
935 Lies

Gee. Maybe the party of Goofy Old People needs an infusion of disaffected, pissed-off ex-Democrats to swell their ranks and infuse new enthusiasm.

STOP THE HATE !!!

TheOrchidThief

Now this what I call witty. Thank You.

Obama is a bum

And the Democrats have a bunch of cultists like yourself drooling over a pig like Obama. Seems to me that the Republicans are a lot more mature than you brainless zombies.

tgb1000

And yet Sen. Clinton’s “tax holiday” was GOOD economics? Sen. Obama’s windfall tax is ripe for criticism, but you people are beyond belief. Where are these “falling poll numbers”? They look pretty stable to me. You can’t possible be using this minor platform plank as a reason to vote for McCain over Obama.

Divide & Conquer

Yes we can, and yes we are

Pink Panther

“Hope is the denial of reality.”
—Margaret Weis

935 Lies

“Hope is not a part of any Plan, idiots!” – MSGT R.D. van de Lender, USA (deceased)

Pink Panther

You figured out Obama and his supporters-idiots.

Kevin

I’ll give you ten good reasons in addition to the “minor platform plank”
Grove Parc
Ayers and Dohrn (I’ll count those two as one)
Michigan
Florida
Thugs at the caucuses
Typical White Woman
Wright
Rezko
Pfleger
Lifting weights instead of visiting wounded soldiers.

Now give me ONE.
Just one good reason to vote for this, inexperienced, underqualified, narcissistic, sexist, racist, unpatriotic buffoon?
can’t use hope or change in your response.

Pink Panther

Whether Obama supporters want to believe it or not, oil and energy companies want Obama to win. Obama will clearly open doors with Africa.

Africa has a substantial crude oil reserves. African oil is considered “sweet” crude because of its low sulphur content. Sweet crude is easier and cheaper to refine into gasoline and other products. Transportation costs are lower from Africa than from the Middle East because it is closer to the US East Coast.

This is one reason the MSM has been pushing Obama-it’s the oil and energy companies Stupid!

That’s basic economics in the U.S.A. in 2008.
yttik

It’s not only about supply and demand, taxes also influence how you run a business. The reason we have oil companies raking in huge profits is because they got a bunch of tax breaks. If they did not have those special benefits, I don’t think they would chose to rake in those big profits. Instead they would shelter their money, reinvest it, restructure. I don’t believe they would simply happily pay the tax and pass the burden onto the consumer.

I believe it was the bush/ cheney administration that created the situation of increased gas prices. They removed the incentives that may have encouraged oil companies to do things that often also result in reducing oil prices.

TheOrchidThief

With all due respect, oil companies do not pay taxes, their customers pay the tax bill. Just as real estate does not pay taxes as their owners or tenants pay the tax bill. In the final analysis however, all of us pay all corporate taxes whether we know it or not. Its really pretty simple. Its a 101 matter.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

Kevin, correct me if I am wrong here but the record “Windfall Profits” the oil companies have been raking in is largly due to consolidation of the oil companies in the 1980′s.

For example, if Exxon and Mobil were still two separate companies, those profits would be halved, and not setting the records we see today.

Winfall profits are not the bogeyman. The price of a barrel of oil is.

A comprehensive energy plan that reduces demand on oil, not energy, is a bettter long term solution than a “Windfall Profits” tax.

A successful policy will include increasing the areas available for exploration and drilling. Yes, that means Offshore Drilling. The talk of new drilling by the President and both candidates has already had a downward effect on oil futures prices.

Pumping US oil also keeps US energy dollars in the US, lessens the trade deficit, and keeps the greenback out of the hands of oil regimes that promote terrorism.

If there were productive deposits of oil on existing leases, the oil companies would already be drilling. The oil companies want to pump oil and make money from it. Refer to Econ 101.

Up until 10 – 20 years ago, it made STRATEGIC sense to import oil, and not use the oil resources in the US. NOW it makes every bit of STRATEGIC sense to start exploring and using US resources.

Draing the resource from foriegn countries while oil was CHEAP, and keeping our CHEAP oil in the ground until it became expensive was smart, whether intentional or not. And, have no doubt, that it was intentional.

Imagine the predicament if the US already used up all of that US oil and now had no choice but to purchase EXPENSIVE foriegn oil.

The oil will still be expensive, but the dollars stay in the US.

So, reduce oil imports by DRILLING, and develop alternative sources, develop clean buring coal, use clean burning CNG, go nuclear, conservation, (my tires are always inflated) and we can achieve energy independence. If Brazil can do it, so can the US.

Kevin

Johnny,
Someone who gets it. Yes, it is really that simple. Problem is, that our development of domestic oil fields has lagged for too long. And, we’re not going to be able to pull an Al Gore and convert to a non-fossil fuel based economy in ten years. My points all along have been not based so much on price, but on security. Depending on mid-east oil, in part caused 9-11. If we weren’t so fixated on propping up the Saudis, their people wouldn’t be inclined to hop on planes and fly them into our skyscrapers. Increased energy independence is a national security issue.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

“Increased energy independence is a national security issue”

Exactly right. McCain “gets it”, Obambi – forget it.

Obambi needs to go back to organizing Chicago communities. When he gets some success there maybe he can have a shot at passing a bill in the Senate. POTUS? NO WAY.

Kevin

he kind of dropped the ball on the community organizing thing
I still haven’t seen evidence of anything he has accomplished.
Gotta go to sleep
good night all

935 Lies

Not only crude, but now we are importing refined No Lead and #2 Diesel from Rotterdam and Antwerp because of diminished refining capacity.

Last new US refinery built in US? 1976.

Bigtime

Over 12 refineries shut down in the last 10 years to jack up prices. Look up the leaked oil company memos that basically say that if they do not cut refining capacity they(oil companies) will never get a decent price per gallon. It is all a big game that we lose at no matter what.

Nobama!!

Mr.Murder

Reducing imports would not make the price cheaper.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

Who said it would?

Our need for oil is not going away. Expensive oil is here to stay.

The questions are, Do you want your oil money to go to governments that sponsor terrorism, or to the US?

Do you want oil to become more expensive by not tapping into new domestic reserves?

If you care about this country, odds are you will answer yes to both of those questions.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

Here’s a thought.

All those in favor of “Windfall Profits” taxes, how about taxing the PRODUCTION of oil?

Right now the profits from production of imported oil go into the coffers of foriegn governments.

Drill here, produce here, and those profits stay here.

Where do those profis go? Ask the instant millionares created from recent finds of deep wells in North Dakota. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/PainAtThePump/wireStory?id=5274526

The oil rights are privately owned, and those profits go to the land owners. In the case of new Federal leases, those “Windfall Profits” go right into the US Government treasury.

What happens when the government gets profits from oil production?

Ask Alaskan’s who pay no state taxes, and get an annual oil royalty dividend of $1,654 each. And, also get free college tuition. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/20/business/NA-FIN-US-Alaska-Dividend.php

Ask Louisiana where under TOPS, Louisiana’s free college tuition program, 39,191 students receive free college tuition.

Drill here, drill now, and keep the benefits here.
TheOrchidThief

Kevin:
Corporations do not pay income taxes. We do, individuals, all of us, everybody. Every single dime of tax to the government comes from you…me…the guy behind the tree, directly or indirectly. The tax rate is irrevalent. Thats the way it is, should be, always will be, no matter how you disguise it. It never ceases to amaze me that people don’t understand this.

Same with real estate taxes, whether it is a mobile home or a mansion or a shopping center…real estate does not pay taxes, the owner and/or tenants pay the taxes. Period. No issue at all.
Tristan

Thanks for writing this article. As soon as heard this proposal from Obama I thought “oh my god, he’s really going to destroy the country”.

Politically, it sounds great – tax the oil companies. Force those greedy bastards to give us some of our money back.

Here’s the problem. How are you going to slap a tax on Saudi or Venezuelan oil? You can’t. You can only slap a tax on American oil producers and distributors.

Those American companies are listed on the American stock market and employ American workers, and they compete internationally. So basically you’re weakening American industry and giving an advantage to foreign industry.

This is like Obama’s proposal to raise taxes on people making $250k a year saying that everyone else will be unaffected. No, if you live in this country you will be affected, because the people with the most money will have their purchasing power curtailed, and more importantly, will have less to invest. (And less reason to invest with capital gains taxes higher.)

And if you live outside the US and are thinking of starting a business inside the US, maybe you’ll think twice when you hear about the coming tax hike.

Bottom line – I have only a basic understanding of economics – the required two econ classes for my MBA – and it seems like I know a lot more than Obama. However, both of his proposals – raise taxes on the oil companies and on the rich – are politically appealing, so obviously Obama’s just trying to buy votes from people too dumb to understand that he’s killing the economy.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

I could not agree more.

Slim

Y’know, it is possible to reject Obama because he is inexperienced, sexist, race-baiting, elitist, FISA-loving and whatever else. But is is silly to let that recognition lead one to buy into and parrot Big Oil and GOP talking points. Good grief!

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

Please provide your “Big Oil” and “GOP” source for where this was parroted, otherwise shut the hell up.

Slim

Check any McCain ad.

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

That’s it?

“Check any McCain ad.”?

No quotes?

No Links?

I guess I must have missed the McCain ad that referenced the newly minted North Dakota oil millionares, the Alaska Oil Dividend for residents, and the Louisiana TOPS college tuition program.

Apparantly you are not just stupid, you are LAZY and stupid. Maybe you should just vote for Obambi with the rest of the LAZY STUPID people.

Tuppence 411

This is what I know for sure about the current state of our economy- I get a sick feeling every time I open a 401K or IRA statement. Can imagine what it would be like without at least one sector of industry making profits. Visions of being an old-lady eating cat food to survive. I miss the Clinton economy.
lizpolaris

I don’t know anything about economics. But I recall the windfall profits tax during the Carter administration. They work. No adverse affect to the oil companies except to reign in greed; benefit to the consumer by keeping prices in check.

So the country has seen this kind of taxation work. It’s EXACTLY the kind of government regulation we need. Capitalism is not supposed to equal uncontrolled greed. Government oversight is required for capitalism to work for the benefit of society. Corporations are supposed to look out for their bottom line and that’s all. GOVERNMENT is supposed to look out for the interests of the citizens in a capitalist society, via their elected representatives passing laws to regulate commerce. Republicans seem to have forgotten that part of the equation.

I have a lot of problems with Obama. His current position on windfall profits tax isn’t one of them.

Slim

Well said. Too often in these threads we see nothing but “If Obama’s for it, I’m against it”

lizpolaris

Educating the Republicans who participate on NoQuarter is one of the reasons I come here to comment. I find I get educated sometimes by their comments as well! This is oddly one of the few places on the net to engage constructively with the ‘other side.’ (troll garbage must be sifted thru and ignored…)

MEchelle Hates America!

Nothing worked during Carter.

Inflation went through the roof. The US had massive farm foreclosures and the American embassy held captives in Iran.

Are you talking about Carter – wear a sweater and odd and even days to get gas – Carter?

WTF!

http://nobho.blogspot.com/ Johnny at Work

Under Carter, interest rates went through the roof along with inflation.

Try financing a 30 year mortgage with credit card interest rates. If you had excellent credit, you might have been able to get a 16 percent rate.

It created a savings and loan and housing mess similar to todays due to people who were not able to afford their absurdly unaffordable loans and homes.

Defaults, and foreclosures skyrocketed, housing prices tumbled, people walked away from their committments.

Sound Familiar?

Ah, the good ole Carter Days.

It is ironic that anti-Obamas latch onto the stupidest element in the Obama Energy Plan, and claim it is the only viable proposal in his bag of tricks.

I know you people can google, so if you were not alive during the Carter years, or can’t remember, do a little research before you make fools of yourselves. Obama should heed that advice as well.

Carter’s plan was bad, and had a bad outcome, but Obama’s plan is worse.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/outlook/5928821.html

“Obama’s plan does not copy the tax enacted under President Carter in 1980, which imposed huge administrative burdens — and retarded domestic oil production. Mr. Carter’s tax was levied per-barrel, so it directly increased the marginal cost of producing crude — and made figuring out which barrels to tax ridiculously complicated.”

“Obama wants a surtax on net oil company profits above a “reasonable” level. The tax would be set high enough to raise $65 billion over the next five years, and the revenue would fund a one-shot tax rebate that Mr. Obama would like to give to families and individuals this year.”

“Making Exxon surrender money that is now falling into its lap would not necessarily affect its longer-term plans or incentives. Indeed, some of Big Oil’s “windfall” ALREADY will go to the government: The more profit the companies earn, the more corporate income tax they pay. But to add a five-year tax increase on top of that to pay for a one-year gift to voters will increase the cost of doing business. That cost will be passed along in forgone investment in new production, lower dividends for pension funds and other shareholders, and higher prices at the pump — thus socking it to the consumers whom the plan is supposed to help.”

“If oil prices fall, (as they are now)there might be no windfall profits to tax. Then the Obama rebate would have to be paid for through spending cuts, taxes on something else or borrowing.”

If Obama were serious about creating energy independence, Obama should stick to his plan to increase alternative sources of energy. And, he needs to include increasing use of clean coal technology, clean burning CNG, and go nuclear, and include ALL offshore drilling options.

And, Obama needs to outline the road that gets us there. What tax incentives does he have now? Let individuals and industry directly invest in US energy independence.

Obama wants to take money away from individuals and industry, give it to congress, and let congress decide where to spend it.

Oh yeah, that’s a real good plan. NOT!

Nope Obama is no Carter. He’s much worse!

Tuppence 411

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone catch Barky NObama’s obvious pandering to wealthier senior citizens? (You know the ones that tend to vote more conservative.) He is proposing to eliminate taxes for 50 grand a year or less. Now if I am retired, and still pulling in 50k, wouldn’t that mean I have a pretty hefty portfolio behind me?? There are plenty of seniors that need a helping hand- with housing, heating costs, and medical care. They don’t have investments behind them. They don’t even have enough income coming in to even TRIGGER filing taxes. Those are the senior we need to help. And he calls himself a progressive democrat. He is an idiot and an a$$hole.

935 Lies

A rough rule of thumb is that it takes $1,000,000 to throw off Tax-Free Cash of $50,000 annually, IF that million is invested in tax-free Municipals.

So, yeah, it’s Tax the Millionaires time.

Katmoon

The O campaign is creating amounts being contributes to Senator McCain.It seems of course that team O doesn’t have a problem once again with the truth, but this time Opensecrets is not letting them get away with it.
Drilling Down: Obama’s Charge on McCain’s Oil Money
Published by Massie Ritsch on August 4, 2008 2:59 PM

Here in the Center’s press shop, we’ve fielded a lot of calls today from reporters wondering where Barack Obama’s campaign is getting the numbers to back up its latest charge against John McCain: that the Republican is “in the pocket” of the oil industry because his campaign has taken $2 million from it. The TV ad that makes that claim started airing today, and in tiny print it cites as its data source the Center for Responsive Politics (as well as the Washington Post, though the ad doesn’t make it clear that CRP and the Post are two separate sources).
Here’s what’s confusing people: On OpenSecrets.org we show John McCain receiving $1,332,033 from oil and gas interests from the start of his presidential campaign through June 30. (On the same page, we show Barack Obama receiving $394,465, a stat the Obama ad doesn’t mention, not surprisingly.) In McCain’s case, that’s well below the $2 million that Obama is trying to pin on him. So where does that number come from?

opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/here-in-the-centers-press.html
JohninCA

What really threatens Big Oil development of alternative fuels.
Zack

FEC Investigation of Obama Eligibility

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Federal-Elections-Commssion/signatures.html

Sign petition.Fill it out-It next-next-and tehn hit back to pittition and then yes-yes-and back bar and then go to see if it took your petittion siguture by goin up top to singures. Sing today-We are going at it now