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The Myth of Georgian Aggression

Many pundits and media types are adopting the perspective that the Georgians caused the war with Russia because they (the Georgians) sent troops to southern Ossetia. My dear progressive friend, Wayne, sent me the following:

Here is a video from The Real News providing one mans (Pep Escobar) perspective on the battling in Georgia… very interesting perspective and not one you will find coming from the Corporate Media outlets.

Click this link to view.

Georgian troops launched an aerial bombardment and ground attack on its separatist province of South Ossetia on Thursday. South Ossetians want to join up with their ethnic brethren in North Ossetia, an autonomous republic within the Russian Federation. Seeing this as an act of aggression Russia launched bombing raids against Georgia, vowing to defend its citizens. More than half of South Ossetia’s citizens are said to have taken up Moscow’s offer of a Russian passport. Pepe Escobar believes that “the hypocrisy of the international community knows no bounds for if the West forced the issue of Kosovar independence then the independence of South Ossetia should also be on the cards.”

Or check out Justin Raimundo who gives the Russians a big, old sloppy kiss (with plenty of tongue):

The anti-Russian bias of the Western media is really something to behold: “Russia Invades Georgia,” “Russia Attacks Georgia,” and variations thereof have been some of the choice headlines reporting events in the Caucasus, but the reality is not only quite different, but the exact opposite. Sometimes this comes out in the third or fourth paragraph of the reportage, in which it is admitted that the Georgians tried to “retake” the “breakaway province” of South Ossetia. The Georgian bombing campaign and the civilian casualties – if they are mentioned at all – are downplayed and presented as subject to dispute.

A nice story but it is wrong. Russia’s invasion of Georgia has little to do with Georgia’s actions in Ossetia and more to do with Russia sending the United States a clear and defiant signal. Consider these facts:

1. Russian planning for this operation started at least two months before Georgia moved its troops into south Ossetia. The rapid movement of Russian forces into the disputed region and subsequent deployment into other disputed regions in Georgia required significant advance planning, movement of troops, equipment, fuel, and supplies (ammunition and food). Russia used the Georgian action as a convenient excuse to send the U.S. a clear and defiant message–fuck you!

2. Russian intelligence services penetrated the Georgian government and almost certainly had advance warning about Georgian plans and intentions.

3. The United States cannot do a damn thing to stop the Russians. Russia controls the UN Security Council’s ability to take action by virtue of its veto. The United States is not about to put its military forces on the line to fight the Russians in Georgia.

4. U.S. efforts to isolate Russia by expanding NATO to include members of the former Soviet empire and deploy an anti-missile shield in countries on Russia’s western border played a greater role in inspiring the Russian move than Georgia’s efforts to control south Ossetia. Let’s face it. The Bush Administration’s policy toward Russia is in tatters and we look like fools. It really does not matter what John McCain or Barack Obama say about the crisis per say. Why? Because when they enter office the Russians will be in control of the situation in Georgia.

5. U.S. credibility with our so-called allies is shredded. We enticed the Georgians to send troops to Iraq. Now that Georgia is fighting for its survival the best we can do is play taxi cab for Georgian soldiers in Iraq and ferry them home. We can give them some weapons. But that’s it. Like the Hungarians who stood up to the Soviets in 1956 and were crushed the regime of Putin is putting down a marker that Russia will not cede any territory it believes lies in its sphere of influence. The Georgians who harbor the fantasy that the West will help rescue them are in for a rude awakening. We are not going to lift a finger. They are on their own.

The United States is not the only loser in this debacle. Pat Lang offers the following cogent insight:

“A friend in need is a friend indeed.”

The Israelis should be careful or they will acquire a reputation for dumping their allies under pressure.

Until now the US has held the record for consistency in that field of political action.

Is it coincidence that the US and Israel both acted over the last few years to encourage Georgia in defiance of its giant neighbor?

Israel has 80,000 immigrant Georgian Jews in its population. The defense minister of Georgia is reported to be a “former” Israeli citizen.

Bravado is the Israeli style in international relations and in managing occupations. Rashness bordering on adolescent conceit is another way to describe the style.

I guess Russia doesn’t frighten as easily as some of the entities that the Israelis usually deal with.

What did the US think it was doing encouraging little Georgia to provoke the bear?

Ask the Jacobins. pl

One of the biggest challenges facing the next President will be coping with a resurgent Russia rather than facing down international terrorists. This is why I continue to believe that the best hope for us is to elect Hillary Clinton. Neither McCain nor Obama are up to the task of meeting this challenge.

  • National Security Advisor Michael Moore

    Mikhail Saakashvili is the aggressor here.
    Russia is nothing more than a victim.
    Mikhail Saakashvili acting on behalf of Bush and McCain and the Neo-cons, it trying to expand the reach of America into Russian territory. It’s all about oil from the Caspian Sea. Obama is right when he said that Georgia needs to tone it down. Soros and company know that America is nothing more than a bully to the world.

  • AX10

    I agree with you Larry. Hillary Clinton is the best all around candidate to deal with international affairs.

    Is there any chance that she can still get the nomination?

  • WildChild

    I don’t think using silencers is going to stop the blood shed. Sure the kids are trying to sleep but…

  • AJSHOPE

    Not to mention that there are now reports that South Ossetia started firing on Georgia. This was planned from the get go by Russia. It only took 24 hours for 20,000 Russian troops and a fleet of Russian tanks to get to the heartland of Georgia. On top of that, Russia was handing out Russian passports and IDs, like they were candy, to the people in South Ossetia right up until the Russian invasion. This was a setup to take over Georgia while the world was focussed on the Olympics.

  • Steve1

    Another American basher. I believe in constructive critiism but I am tired of American bashers. You sound like you would fit in just right and proper in Rev Wright’s pews, along with Mr. Barack Obama, or is it Barry Soetoro? I not saying our country is always right, but I tired of you self-haters preaching how the rest of the world is so innocent!

  • Northwest rain

    Thank you for this report.

    And yes troop movement like we have seen from Russia takes time and planning.

  • Justin Boston 2008

    This situation is not good at all. I can’t help but feel like I am watching the embryonic stages of a new World War. It’s sad that the only one who could even begin to mend the fences here has been cheated out of the nomination. While one could hope for something to come through here, I think we will be stuck with a President McCain for the next 4 years.

  • Dan R.

    So now the “progressives” are taking up for Russia, huh? What a hoot. Anything to get a dig in at the West, I suppose.

  • Dan R.

    Exactly. The timing was no accident. The Russians waited until the Olympics started because they believed the world’s attention would be focused there. I’ll bet Vladimir Putin is REAL popular in Beijing right about now.

  • http://nad Dan

    Obama gave a typical Bush response by calling on all sides to show restraint only to later change his response to McCains position. Obama=Bush.Obama just panders to everything, he’s just a pretender.It’s amazing what these koolaid drinkers with their blind faith for their Messiah just can’t see is that Obama doesn’t have a clue what’s going on, so how can you try defending nothing??

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    Hey all im trying to blog about all the diaster were in come check me out…

    trying to keep it easy fun and action packed

    wordpress.itappearstobe.com

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  • cathnealon

    Oil, oil,oil–BP the largest oil company dealing in that region and Bush playing with the Georgians in exhange for their 2000 troops is a recipe for disaster–the Russians claim the Georgians are committing genocide and the’re there to stop it, the Georgians say this is b.s.-Russia’s doing what Russia has always done, what’s the big deal. Well, ask Bush and his oil buddies–Iraq, Georgia, it’s all the same–Russia’s on the receiving end of the American mainstream media and can’t seem to break through.

  • Steve1

    The Clintons handled the situation in Kosovo so well. There was no large scale ground war, European allies took a major burden of effort. Compare that with the mess in Iraq. What would be be Obama’s approach? “Let’s all try to get along!” A, a , umh, Please refer to my speech.

  • M. N.

    While I respectfully disagree with you that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate for the job, I’m glad to see that, for at least this moment, you’ve returned to posting thoughtful analysis on issues of national and international security.

    Isn’t it better to debate the merits of a potential Obama administration on this basis, and not in the fantasy world populated by the likes of Texas Darlin’ and her coterie of imbeciles?

  • Caya

    I totally agree BUT and it’s a big one, your comment on Soros is absurd!

    From Wiki

    According to the then editor-in-chief of The Georgian Messenger newspaper, Zaza Gachechiladze, “It’s generally accepted public opinion here that Mr. Soros is the person who planned Shevardnadze’s overthrow”.

    Look up Shevardnadze on Wiki and go to the Political downfall.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Shevardnadze

  • M. N.

    August 13, 2008
    Cyberspace Barrage Preceded Russian Invasion of Georgia
    By JOHN MARKOFF

    Weeks before physical bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack against the country in cyberspace.

    Jose Nazario of Arbor Networks in Lexington noticed a stream of data directed at Georgian government sites containing the message: win+love+in+Rusia.

    Other Internet experts in the United States said the attacks against Georgia’s Internet infrastructure began as early as July 20, with coordinated barrages of millions of requests — known as distributed denial of service, or D.D.O.S., attacks — that overloaded certain Georgian servers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/technology/13cyber.html?em

    Definitely worth reading.

  • roseeriter

    Soros is Obama’s biggest backer. I wonder if that will be another issue for Obama??

  • roseeriter

    What merits of Obama’s do you think we should start with??? Um ahh. umm Gee I can’t think of any sorry.

  • Peggy Sue

    I thought it was interesting that the “O” made a startling statement from Hawaii regarding the Russia/Georgia conflict. He managed to tuck this one in somewhere between his exercise regime, visit to gramdma’s and surfing adventure.

    To quote the Great One:

    “For many months I have warned that there needs to be active international engagement to peacefully address the disputes over South Ossetia and Abkhazia including a high level and neutral international mediator and a genuine international peacekeeping force, not simply Russian troops.”

    Only problem? There’s no record of these prescient warnings. Anywhere. Guess he mixed up his own notes with HRC’s. Or maybe this was a conversation Obama had with himself, something on the order of:

    *Hillary Clinton’s comments were really good. McCain forewarned problems with Moscow. I better say I took an earlier stand, too. Who will ever notice? It’s not like the MSM does any research.*

    Tsk, tsk, tsk. Everytime I think I can’t be surprised, I’m surprised all over again. Of course, Tim Kaine, VP hopeful, says that Georgia “obviously” took Barack Obama’s suggestion to call a cease fire.

    The “O” passes his hand and the winds change direction. Even history changes–it rewrites itself.

    God help us all [and I'm not referring to BO].

  • Steve1

    MN Silly BOT!

  • Anon22

    You are seriously misinterpreting the claims people are making about Georgia’s folly. Of course Russia wanted to smack Georgia down and send a signal to the West. Of course they were hoping for a pretext to put that plan into action. The point is, Saakashvili made two serious errors:

    1) He gave/b> Russia the excuse it was looking for, practically gift-wrapped. The South Ossetia situation has been simmering for a long time; no need to stir the pot now, when you’ve known for years that Russia is looking for an excuse to put your country in its place. The strategic value of South Ossetia to Georgia is practically nil; this is, by and large, a matter of national pride. And national pride isn’t a sufficient reason to put your people’s lives at risk by provoking a hostile power with the military capacity to take you apart.

    2) He believed the West’s (particularly, the U.S.’s) assurances that Georgia wouldn’t stand alone if Russia attacked. Any thinking politician from that region has to know that the U.S. is not about to get involved in a shooting war with the> major Eurasian military power which, by the way, still retains a colossal nuclear arsenal. Leading a country so precariously balanced between West and East, democracy and autocracy, requires subtlety, shrewdness, and a keen sense of who your real friends are. Saakashvili has demonstrated in vivid fashion that he does not possess those qualities by his actions over the past week.

    Russia’s response was far disproportionate to the provocation, and only Kremlin apologists are arguing otherwise. But it was also no more than Georgia ought to have expected. When you’re the smallest fish in the pond, you fight smart, not hard. You don’t give great powers excuses to come after you. Georgia’s President gave Russia such an excuse, and the results were entirely predictable.

  • Anon22

    Ew, formatting disaster. Sorry about that.

  • Mandelay

    Yes, if the delegates can rise to the occasion and put country before party.

  • ginaswo still says no Uhhbama

    ROTFL!!!

  • BARB

    Another POV. For complete article:

    http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9756.shtml

    Since 2000, Israel has sold hundreds of millions of dollars in arms and combat training to Georgia. Weapons included guns, ammunition, shells, tactical missile systems, antiaircraft systems, automatic turrets for armored vehicles, electronic equipment and remotely piloted aircraft. These sales were authorized by the Israeli defense ministry (Arie Egozi, “War in Georgia: The Israeli connection,” Ynet, 10 August 2008).

    Training also involved officers from Israel’s Shin Bet secret service — which has for decades carried out extra judicial executions and torture of Palestinians in the occupied territories — the Israeli police, and the country’s major arms companies Elbit and Rafael.

    The Tel Aviv-Tbilisi military axis appears to have been cemented at the highest levels, and according to YNet, “The fact that Georgia’s defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation.” Others involved in the brisk arms trade included former Israeli minister and Tel Aviv mayor Roni Milo as well as several senior Israeli military officers.

  • ginaswo still says no Uhhbama

    I hear they fixed a frakkin RAILROAD there too, yeah to ship the munitions and troops

  • Steve1

    Yes you follow the line. Let the Dictators have their right. Even though it is your territory! Sounds, like Hitler and the the lost Germans in Sudetenland. Its their backyard and they will stop there. You sound like a typical Obama supporter, an apologist!

  • ming the merciless

    He believed the West’s (particularly, the U.S.’s) assurances that Georgia wouldn’t stand alone if Russia attacked.

    Maybe the Georgians took what their paid McCain connection Randy Scheunemann told them a little too seriously. Now he may lose his contract.

  • Steve1

    So now we will blame Israel for the Russian intrustion into Georgian territory?

  • The Real Hope

    Let’s all remember what TR said about the Russians: they are stupid and they are liars.

  • Steve1

    Hamas supporters who back Russian invasion of Gerorgian territory. I also take it that you have contributed to Obama’s campaign. Axis=Nazi Germany!

  • Anon22

    Here’s the thing: we already know how absurd the analogy to 1938 is, just from events today. Hitler got the Sudetenland, then promptly proceeded to annex the remainder of Czechoslovakia. Putin kicked the Georgians out of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and pushed into Georgia, then stopped and agreed to pull Russian troops out of Georgia itself.

    What does this tell us? That Putin is not some territory-hungry villain on a quest for Russian expansion. He’s the premier of a powerful nation that feels ill-used and threatened by the West’s actions and attitudes over the past decade. He wants to throw his weight around, to remind people that Russia still counts for something in Europe. He has succeeded, at Georgia’s expense. If he goes back in and annexes Georgia or some other unfortunate nearby country, the analogy to the run-up to World War II will become more apt. As of now, it’s just goofy and completely useless as a prism through which to view the current conflict.

  • BernieO

    I think both sides are to blame. What in the hell was Shaakasvili thinking to up the ante like that? Nothing like poking the stick in the eye of an already angry bear. I heard today on NPR that he thought we would help him out. He must be on something to think we could do anything even if we wanted.
    I don’t doubt that Putin was just itching for an excuse. It doesn’t mean it was smart to give it to him.

  • ming the merciless

    You might think about blaming the Georgians themselves, at least a little. They should have considered that the Russians might be upset when Georgian troops, armor, and artillary swarmed into South Ossetia overnight and began shelling ethnic population centers that the Russians were supposed to protect. Or that they might react angrily to the deaths of 10 UN-sanctioned Russian peacekeepers, who were killed when Georgian artillary opened fire on their barracks.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    “The United States is not about to put its military forces on the line to fight the Russians in Georgia”

    Ahem…………….What military?

    The USA sacrificed it’s two theatre capability in 2000 to pay for the first round of tax cuts.

    Then came Afghanistan, then came Iraq, then came the financial meltdowns.

    Bush is the nouveau Hoover.

    We could possibly be in for the sixteen years that began in the fall of 1929 yet we lack a FDR. But we do have the choice between Archie and Jughead.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    Those stupid Russians are within hours of handing you a fait accompli.

    That is no lie, GI.

    Never underestimate an opponent.

  • Steve1

    Uhmmmm, I take it that South Ossetia is not part of the Georgian nation? If we take your rational, than Russia should also give up North Ossetia! Instead they will combine South with North and control both. Sounds like the old Soviet Union. So, we let them do it-which part of the old empire is next? Ukraine? Do we see a resugent Russian Empire? Estonia, BeloRussia, Latvia, Lituania, Kazanhstan?

  • Hope is the last to die

    Interestingly Georgian analysts say the reason Georgia wanted to deal with this now was because they’re expecting Obama to win and therefore lose the support of the US. The same is going on in Israel, they want to attack Iran now before Obama gets into the office because they too expect to lose support once that happens.

    Obama is just a presumptive nominee but already managed to stir foreign relations. No one has any clue where he stands and american allies are acting desperate now when they still believe to be under the US protection.

  • Dawnelle Leona del Puma

    holy crap

    my brain is leaking out my ears

  • Dawnelle Leona del Puma

    please! Before my eyes bleed.

  • beverly leslie

    IMBECILE? Look who’s calling the kettle black! What’s obarf gonna do? Hold hands, hug and sing songs. How about we drop you and your ilk off in the middle of the fighting and see if you can broker peace. We’ll attach a video cam to you so we can all watch some awesome reality television at home.

    Obarf is never going to be in the White House, no one with a mind worth speaking of will vote for that imbecile. So keep spouting your victory from your sinking ship, I believe Hitler was doing the same when the allies were a block from his bunker. Wishful thinking along these lines can be considered madness.

  • Mary

    South Ossetia has considered itself independent of Georgia since the early 1990′s, and a referendum that was voted on in the early years showed that a clear majority of S. Ossetians wanted to be independent. A very bloody war was fought in 1992 because Georgia refused to recognize the results of that referendum.

    The United Nations stepped in, and Russia provided peacekeepers to keep Georgia from “retaking” the province.

    Saakishvili over-reached when he thought Bush’s praise for their democracy meant he could do whatever he wanted and we would support it.

    He invaded S. Ossetia Aug. 8 (Olympics opening night), shelling the capital and literally flattening 10 Ossetians villages, killing 2000 civilians.

    It wasn’t until Aug 9 that Russia stepped in to defend S. Ossetia.

    Saakishvili is responsible for his rash and foolish choices, and should be held accountable at the United Nations.

    And he should NEVER be allowed entry into NATO if he is this impulsive and irrational.

  • tzada

    Wonder if Soros is behind this crap too?

    http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080812160747.aspx
    FCC Commissioner: Return of Fairness Doctrine Could Control Web Content
    McDowell warns reinstated powers could play in net neutrality debate, lead to government requiring balance on Web sites.

  • Mary

    NPR is correct.

    Whether that’s because the Bush administration supplied him with weapons, “military trainers” (translate: CIA & Israelis), and $40 million of your tax dollars to beef up his weapons……and whether Saakishvili thought that meant (wink wink) we WOULD help, he was stupid to take the chance.

    McClatchy is reporting that the Bush administration tried to warn him not to do anything rash, for fear of risking entry into NATO as a result, but that Saakishvili ignored their warnings and stormed full speed ahead into S. Ossetia.

    But then again, it’s hard to wade through this administration’s many lies, isn’t it?

    I wouldn’t put it past the Bushies/neocons doing the ole wink-wink, would you?

    Regardless, Saakishvili has destroyed any chance of NATO entry, now. Dumbass.

  • Mary

    Yes, and that BP pipeline that goes through Georgia and down to Turkey also supplies Israel.

    Think that has anything to do with why Israelis were training Georgia’s military, and selling them weapons and high level missiles?

    It does seem that our “foreign policy” is always centered around pipelines, doesn’t it?

  • Mary

    Uh, no, Dan.

    Georgia invaded S. Ossetia on Aug 8, knowing Putin would be at the Olympics.

    Russia didn’t respond until Aug. 9, in defense of S. Ossetia.

    Saakishvili chose the day of the opening of the Olympics because he believed the world’s attention would be focused there, and that Putin would be there, too.

    Bad choice.

  • Mary

    Perhaps they’re taking up for the S. Ossetians, Dan, and their right to their own independence from Georgia.

  • BernieO

    And the Russians had spies telling them they were planning this so they also were had their plans to respond. Dumb move on Georgia’s part.

  • BernieO

    I think they are the only ones to support here. Both the Russians and Georgians are using them to try to further their own interest.
    Why do so many of us think that you can only have a black or white, with ‘em or agin ‘em position? It is perfectly rational to think that Georgia was flat-out wrong and gave Putin a golden opportunity and that Russia used this to push their own imperialist agenda?
    They are both in the wrong, but it is Georgia who did not get what they wanted and are paying a steep price for their stupidity. The Russians are not crying over this.

  • Mary

    Speaking of Security Council vetoes and so-called cease fires, Larry…..

    Wasn’t it the United States who blocked a ceasefire at the UN on behalf of Israel when Israel obliterated Lebanon?

    Wasn’t it the United States who willfully delayed that cease fire, which the rest of the world was calling for, so that Israel would have more time to destroy as much as possible before it was enacted?

    We are in NO position to give anyone else speeches , or to presume that we have ANY “moral authority” anymore.

    Due respect.

  • Mary

    Well said, Bernie.

    And for his foolishness, Saakishvili has cost his country entry into NATO. There was good reason for France and Germany to think Georgia wasn’t ready.

    Stupid, stupid man.

  • Mary

    YUP. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  • BernieO

    Tell that to the South Ossetians who have never wanted to be part of Georgia. Why do they not have the right to self-determination?
    This has to be only about the national pride of the Georgians. South Ossetia is dirt poor and without natural resources. They have been functioning as their own country since the early nineties. Why shouldn’t they be left alone instead of being forced to be part of Georgia?

    This is not to say that Russia gives a rats behind about the rights of the South Ossetians. Clearly they are taking advantage of the situation. We support the Georgians for our own purposes – the oil pipeline so we don’t care about the rights of South Ossetia, either. If only we had listened to that dumb ol’ peanut farmer Jimmy Carter who said we needed to get off oil instead of the god Reagan who said that there would not be a shortage for years and year – if ever…..

  • BernieO

    What geniuses. Don’t they get CNN? Where in the blazes did they think we would get troops to back them up – even if we wanted to? Seems like the Georgians are as simple minded as Bush.

  • Steve1

    Mary, It has already been proven that the Russians planned this invasion and set the entire incident up? What line do you follow? Yes, in one day they rolled into teritories with a precise POA!

  • Steve1

    Anon Yes, that is exactly what they said when Hitler marched into the Ruhr. You appear a little confused!

  • Steve1

    Mary Are you blogging from Gaza or the West-Bank? Lebanon was under the heels of Syrian domination and their terrorist thugs, Hezbollah, who were lobbing missles into northern Israel and terrorizing the Lebanaese.

  • Mary

    No, Steve, that hasn’t been proven at all.

    What has been proven is that there have been issues between Georgia and S. Ossetia for years—-thus, the UN-approved Russian peacekeepers there.

    Russia had SPIES in the Georgian military /government, and had watched GEORGIA move troops and equipment in place for the invasion of Ossetia.

    Yeah, they were ready….but it wasn’t until GEORGIA broke international law that they actually moved in.

    Georgia will NEVER get into NATO now, not after this catastrophe.

    And Saakishvili is responsible for that.

  • Mary

    I’m blogging from Houston, Texas, little darlin. Born and raised. Enthusiastic Hillary supporter.

    But in terms of Lebanon, NONE of what you typed justifies the United States blocking a ceasefire at the UN while the rest of the world was calling for it.

    And it CERTAINLY makes the Bush administration’s whines about Russia look a tad foolish, now, doesn’t it?

    Lay off the caffeine, Steve. Not everybody who can see through the Bush administration lies lives in Gaza.

    Due respect.

  • Mr.Murder

    The market for stinger missiles is about to go through the roof.

    Bet any exchange students from Russia can find big pay with the Company right now.

    We knew it was coming, sent Condi to pre-empt the news to the Georgians. There’s no telling if she told them too much(almost certain) to the extent their moles have found out some of our ability to decipher past what they gave away on the news dumps re:Pakistan and AQ Khan.

    Strangely enough China benefits every way from this. Market entry in Georgia, market share in terms of the oil pipeline’s diminished business westward, and long term agreements with Iraq and Iran.

    As for penetration on government services, that’s easy. Send them mail order bride spam. That is something that is in demand all the time, even a supply sider would have to agree. The last I checked it seems there’s a cottage industry for that in Russia.

    Putin’s got Iron balls that were forged during the Iron Curtain.

    Condi’s best contacts were shoe salesmen and women in Paris from the ILF days. She accompanied GHWB on his trip to Paris to stage the October Surprise that helped get Reagan in over Carter. It’s funny how she got played by those elements.

    Now Persia is nearly united, siding with China in the future, and helping play East v. West in the Cold War once again.

  • AX10

    So you are for the unamerican Obama afterall.
    I see. Troll!

  • Liberty Belle_never4Obama

    If George Soros is a benefactor to both Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, and Senator Barack Obama, whose first words were that he spoke with Pres. Saakashvili, then would someone please explain to me the Hell is going on here? Why are they starting a war now, in the run-up to the Convention? How would it be calculated to make Obama look good? Or, did they miscalculate the impact (i.e., doesn’t make him look like a great world, foreign policy leader)?

    Appreciate you help on this. The connections described by the bloggers here with Soros, BO, Georgia’s Pres. are downright creepy.

    P.S. – Did you hear the joke? Obama was told Russia invaded Georgia, and he asked, “Are the people in Atlanta alright?”

  • http://Dinocrat gardenvariety

    Wow! So it’s Israel’s fault again, right? Just like the Iraq war, 9/11, the Civil War and Dick Cheney’s hunting accident. Those Protocols sure Knew about those damn Jews! Incredible.

  • http://Dinocrat gardenvariety

    Right. Just like the old Confederacy which wanted out of the Union. What was this guy, Lincoln, thinking?!

  • http://Dinocrat gardenvariety

    Don’t confuse her with facts, Steve.

  • Alien

    At the end of 2007 before the huge increase in energy prices Russia had 811 Billion Us bucks in reserve.

    Not too bad seeing they were 384 billion in debt 8 years earlier & not able to pay IMF interest.

    Russia is not a superpower but they are getting back to a middle power.

  • ziggy

    The events of the 2008 South Ossetia War; all the known details in chronological order:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

    Russia wasn’t the aggressor. And McCain isn’t telling a straight story.

  • http://www.stop-obama.org Gregory Chang

    Sorry Larry, your facts are out of context.

    Russian planning for this action proves nothing about Russias intentions. In fact, if you knew anything about the conflict beyond something you skimmed off a wikipedia entry, you’d know that Russia has contingency plans for Georgia since 1992. As for Georgian maneuvers for Ossetia, they are about 3 years old in practice.

    Israel, on the other hand, is not abandoning an ally, as Georgia was never in any shape or form an Israeli ally. Nor had Israel any official ties to Georgia. These were commercial – guns for hire. To claim abandonment is akin to claiming that Israel abandoned El Salvador when it withdrew its commercial operations there in the eighties.

    You conveniently ignore all the facts of the actual Georgian invasion of Ossetia. Impressive.

  • Blue State Girl

    Russia’s invasion of Georgia has little to do with Georgia’s actions in Ossetia and more to do with Russia sending the United States a clear and defiant signal.

    A nice theory, Larry, but it’s wrong.

    Russia’s invasion has little to do with sending the US a signal and everything to do with protecting its energy monopoly.

    Toronto Globe and Mail

    As Russia’s unnecessary, immoral and illegal military campaign in Georgia grinds onward, the world should not be fooled by President Dmitri Medvedev’s claim that his troops are fighting “to restore peace to South Ossetia.”

    The Russian assault has very little to do with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili’s ill-advised decision to send troops into that troubled region, and owes much more to Moscow’s determination to control energy supplies in the Caucasus and strengthen its position as a near-monopoly supplier to Europe.

    Georgia is a crucial transit point for oil and gas. Three major pipelines connecting energy sources in the Caucasus and Central Asia to European markets pass through its territory. One of these, the South Caucasus pipeline, is an important part of the plan for the Nabucco pipeline to Austria, which would deliver natural gas directly to the European Union, bypassing Russia entirely, if built.

    The Russian government, which controls Gazprom, has been trying to get the EU to ignore the Nabucco pipeline and invest in Gazprom’s pipelines. The attack on Georgia just makes that investment look more risky.

    Medvedev was the chairman of Gazprom’s board until late 2007. The current chair is also Russia’s deputy prime minister.

    The story concludes that “rewarding its transgression by acceding to the Kremlin’s plans for an energy monopoly in Europe would encourage even worse behaviour in the future.”

    Today, BP closed its 90,000-barrels-per-day pipeline, which runs to Supsa on Georgia’s Black Sea coast from Baku in Azerbaijan, “indefinitely as a precautionary measure.”

    Here’s a report on the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    I will quibble slightly with that.

    Russia wants to intimidate all the former Soviet Republics, especially the Western-brokered ones like Georgia, Ukraine and the Baltic States. This is a clear signal that NATO should go slow there and that possibly the Baltic States should reconsider. Point LJ.

    The pipeline was probably under Larry’s radar. I am certain that it is presently front and center, now that a Russian tank column left Gori today en route to Tbilisi. Point BSG.

    One thing that Johnson said is spot on. The Russians did their homework on this one: I saw the Russian Ambassador the UN today on Charlie Rose. This guy is media savvy and served his boss well. He talked about the Georgians rolling over the Russian Peacekeepers (yup, there were there but I don’t know if they were steamrolled), 20,000-30,000 refugees streaming into Russia through the tunnel, the code name for the Geogian Operation being “Clean Field”, etc.. Christ, he made it sound like France in 1940. Like I said, this is no bumbling Soviet aparatchik with a thick accent, this one is media savvy.

    Now UPI’s managing editor of international affairs is running an article that paints this operation in shades of approaching the Iraq blunder. We do live in interesting times.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    The Georgians should ask for their money back.

    Their army bugged out, setting a new land speed record in a headlong rush South.

    Now the Russians have all that brand new US tactical gear (and where do you think the Israelis got it?) to ponder, examine and adjust their tactics accordingly.

  • http://www.despair.com/changewinds.html Smilin’ Jim

    We’ve been playing favorites like this all my life. We passed the Russians in UN vetoes to protect our many clients years ago. It is an established fact that the US’s moral high ground was bulldozed dead fucking flat long ago.

    I wish you would not single out the Israeli example, though, for it brings out the Zionist nutters on the one hand and obscures ugly little operations like East Timor and Chilie on the other.

  • http://Dreemer Nick

    Hi everybody!

    Please stop this discussion. Some facts to you from history:
    1) Stalin,georgian by nationality by the way, simply included this territory (South Ossetia) to Georgia in 1920-th.
    2) Ossetians live on their land for centhures… they are the oldest civilisation, which still stay on the place where it was born….They have right to have their own country more then Kosovo people for 100%!
    3) Saakashvili had attacked not “rebels” and “separatists”. He bombed against civil city for 8 hours before russians came.The result is Tskhinvali is totally destroyed, 2000 civils killed.

    You talking about interestof USA,Georgia,Russia…..
    oil,weapon,money…..etc. stupid world! Think about ossetians! Ask them what they want! This is the only right way of thruthful people.Peace!

  • ziggy

    I concur with every one of your points. The American media presentation of what has happened in South Ossetia and Georgia has thusfar been a total distortion of actual events. And what has been going on behind the scenes that led up to those events has been totally ignored. This was not an unprovoked act of Russian aggression.

  • Georgian

    The Georgian Peace Committee declares asks World public opinion not to identify the current Georgian leadership with the people of Georgia, with the Georgian nation.

    Declaration of the Georgian Peace Committee

    Once more Georgia was launched into a situation of chaos and bloodshed. A new fratricidal war exploded with renewed strength on Georgian soil.

    To our great disappointment, the alerts of the Georgian Peace Committee and of progressive personalities of Georgia on the pernicious character of the militarization of the country and on the danger of a pro-fascist and nationalist policy had no effect. The authorities of Georgia once again organized a bloody war, feeling the support of some Western countries and of regional and international organizations. It will take decades to cleanse the shame poured by the current holders of the power over the Georgian people.

    The Georgian army—armed and trained by U.S. instructors and using also U.S. armaments—subjected the city of Tskhinvali to a barbaric destruction. The bombings killed Ossetian civilians, our brothers and sisters, children, women and elderly people. Over 2,000 inhabitants of Tskhinvali and of its surroundings died.

    Hundreds of civilians of Georgian nationality also died, both in the conflict zone as well as in the entire territory of Georgia.

    The Georgian Peace Committee expresses its deep condolences to the relatives and friends of those who have perished.

    The entire responsibility for this fratricidal war, for thousands of children, women and elderly dead people, for the inhabitants of South Ossetia and of Georgia falls exclusively on the current president, on the Parliament and on the government of Georgia.

    The irresponsibility and the adventurism of the Saakashvili regime have no limits. There is no doubt the president of Georgia and his team are criminals and must be held responsible. The Georgian Peace Committee, together with all the progressive parties and social movements of Georgia, will struggle to assure that the organizers of this monstrous genocide have a severe and legitimate punishment.

    The Georgian Peace Committee declares and asks broad public opinion not to identify the current Georgian leadership with the people of Georgia, with the Georgian nation, and appeals to all to support the Georgian people in the struggle against the criminal regime of Saakashvili.

    We appeal to all the political forces of Georgia, the social movements and the people of Georgia to unite in order to free the country from the Russian-phobic and pro-fascist anti-popular regime of Saakashvili!

    The Georgian Peace Committee Tbilisi, Aug. 11, 2008

  • http://Dreemer Nick

    No, dear Steve1!
    We will let georgians to kill half of the ossetians and the rest we will assimilate with georgians.No people, no problems!That will be “the real democracy”, course it’s “our vision” and not the vision of the “stupid russians”. And of course we are always right!Ah…sorry, forgot… “we will have gas!” Wow! Bravo!Curtain!

  • http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/cnns-english-transcript-of-putin.html?referer=sphere_related_content G

    Let’s explode the myth disseminated by Mr. Putin -Russian government and media that “back in the mid-18th century, in 1745-1747, Ossetia was the first to become part of the Russian Empire. At that time, it was a united entity; North and South Ossetia were one state”.

    Even before STALIN granted historic Georgian land to Osetians BY ARTIFICIALLY CREATING “SOUTH OSSETIA” Georgians lived there AND RULLED this central part of motherland even 2000 years before the Ossetians arrival. The area around the present-day Tskhinvali was first populated back in the Bronze Age. The unearthed settlements and archaeological artifacts from that time are unique in that they reflect influences from both Iberian (east Georgia) and Colchian (west Georgia).

    Place name (toponym) “South Ossetia” for the first time has been used by Russian military, and then civil authorities in the beginning of XIX century. This term had collective character and meant historic-geographical areas of former Georgian Kingdom of Kartli where mainly lived the Ossetian population migrated from the North Caucasus.

    Transformation of the term “South Ossetia” in a designation of administrative-territorial formation with certain administrative borders begins since 1922. Following the Soviet occupation of Georgia (1921) “Osetia” was ARTIFICIALLY created by Bolsheviks in Georgia and areas with not only Osetian villages, but with mainly Georgian population (eastern Racha & Imeretia and mostly central Kartli) also have been included. In addition, old Georgian town Tskhinvali become a capital city of artificial “Osetia” (please note: by 1910 ONLY 11% Osetians lived in Tskhinvali). Subsequently, the town became largely Ossetian due to intense urbanization and Soviet Korenizatsiya (“nativization”) policy which induced an inflow of the Ossetians into Tskhinvali. Today, there is an obvious manifold instrumentalization of the local minorities by Russia for the purpose of destroying the Georgian state.

    Let me assure you – Tskhinvali (capital city of so called South Ossetia) was annexed to Imperial Russia with the rest of eastern Georgia (Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti) in 1801. The so-called South Osetia is not a native land of Osetians. It has never been part of “United Ossetia”. Georgians always lived there and ruled the region even 2000 years before the Ossetians arrival in the 14th-17th centuries as well as after newcomers settled to central Georgia. The so called South Ossetia, which is one and a half times the area of Luxembourg broke away from Georgia in the 1991–1992 war.

    By the early 18th century, Tskhinvali was a small Georgian “royal town” populated chiefly by monastic serfs of the Georgian orthodox church and serfs of local Georgian aristocrats (such as Prince Matchabeli family, etc.) Tskhinvali was first chronicled by Georgian sources in 1398 as a village in Kartli (central Georgia) though a later account credits the 3rd century AD Georgian king Asphagur of Iberia (eastern Georgia) with its foundation as a fortress. The city contains several monuments of medieval Georgian architecture, with the Kavti Church of St. George being the oldest one dating back to the 8th-10th centuries, as well as Soviet time buildings and the old Jewish Quarter (Jewish lived peacefully in Georgia under Georgian rule more than 24 centuries.

    The Osetians are originally descendants of the Alans. They became Christians during the early Middle Ages, under Georgian and Byzantine influences. Under Mongol rule, they were pushed out of their homeland south in present-day Republic of Alania (north Caucasus) under Russian rule from 1767.

    Another part of Osetians migrated towards and over the Caucasus mountains, to Georgia in the central region of Georgia – Tskhinvali, Shida Kartli – Under rule of the eastern Georgian Royal Dynasty (abolished by Russians in 1801).

    Little part of Osetians also moved to in Western Georgian Kingdom – Imereti, and principality of Racha ruled by another branch of Bagrationi Dynasty.

    Located on a trade route which linked North Caucasus to Tbilisi and Gori, Tskhinvali gradually developed into a commercial town with a mixed Jewish, Georgian, Armenian and Ossetian population. In the 1910s, its censused population was 5,033 with 42.3% Jews, 33% Georgians, 13.4% Armenians and ONLY 11% Ossetians.

    Russia has a history of causing problems in the “near abroad” , around the “whole perimeter” and then coming to “fix” the problem.

  • http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/cnns-english-transcript-of-putin.html?referer=sphere_related_content G

    PUTIN: The responsibility for the loss of life rests squarely with the present Georgian leadership, which dared to take these criminal actions.

    COMMENT: Let’s explode the myth disseminated by the Russian government (and accepted by many in the Western media) that Georgia started this fight by “invading” so-called South Ossetia. Setting aside the fact that South Ossetia is legally a part of Georgia, this fight began with a set-up worthy of Hitler’s machinations in Czechoslovakia and Poland.

    Having created, funded and fully backed the South Ossetian separatist movement since the Soviet crack-up, in late JULY the Kremlin ordered Kokoiti regime they own to provoke the Georgians. In the WEEK prior to the invasion, South Ossetians, aided by Russian “peacekeepers,” had shelled and raided Georgian villages beyond so-called South Ossetia.

    Was Separatist violence against Georgians not provocation enough for Saakashvilli to act on? Who do you think encouraged the pro-Russian separatists within Georgia in the first place? Russian influence has been destabilizing the region.

    The lessons of the past have demonstrated that shortsightedness, adventurism and extremism in politics invariably lead to a tragedy that makes hundreds and thousands of innocent people suffer. From what I understand, the people of so-called S Ossetia are a mixture of pro-Georgian and pro-Russian supporters. So both country have legitimate claim to protecting their citizens.

    Oh, and as for those Russian claims that it “had to protect its citizens,” well, the Russians simply handed out passports to South Ossetians over the years in a de facto annexation the world ignored. Those “Russian citizens” are about as Russian as the citizens of Dulles, Virginia.

    Those sympathetic to Georgia can point out the hypocrisy of Russia brutally suppressing separatism in Chechnya while fostering it in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. If Russia really wished to protect the citizens in so-called. South Ossetia ( without pressing in a question on how they there have appeared and why the Russian passports everywhere where distributed as contraband), – than for what Russian armies occupied even territories where no Russian citizens are present, and there are only citizens of Georgia? If Russia really was engaged in compulsion to the world for what its politicians and diplomats needed to demand President Saakashvili’s resignation absolutely seriously? I cannot carry myself to admirers of this politician, but is absolutely convinced that the question of his resignation is a problem of the Georgian people, but not Russian Government.

    Georgia remembers Soviet invasion and occupation in 1921 and the reason stated by Bolshevik Russia – Protection of local Communists. Today, Russians are protecting ethnic Osetian “Russian Citizens” in historic region of the central Georgia. We also remember early 1990′s when invaded two Georgian provinces and was bombing Georgia from sky and black see, enforced 450.000 people (80% of total population – mostly ethnic Georgian refugees) to leave their homes.

    In addition, at inactivity of the Russian “peacemakers” in Abkhazia and Tskhinvali region were killed more than 2000 civilians of the Georgian nationality in 1994-2007 – the world (UN, EU, OSCE) ignored & never provided international peace keepers

  • http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/cnns-english-transcript-of-putin.html?referer=sphere_related_content G

    As the Red Army was approaching the frontiers of the Transcaucasian republics, G.V.Chicherin,Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet Russia, addressed the governments of Georgia and Azerbaijan, on January 6, 1920, with a proposal to form a MILITARY ALLIANCE WITH THE SOVIET RUSSIA. The government of Georgia refused to enter into any military alliance by referring to their policy of NEUTRALITY. G.Chicherin sent a note OF PROTEST on 29 February condemning N.Zhordania’s Georgian government for their refusal. LENIN also referred to that subject in his speech at the 1st session of the ALL – Union Executive Committee, 7th meeting (February 2, 1920}:”We shall see how the workers and peasants of Georgia and Azerbaijan will take it”.

    In the January of 1920 the Caucasian Territorial Committee of the Bolshevik Party appealed to the workers for an ARMED UPRISING, and on March 15 it applied to Soviet Russia, on behalf of all the Communist organizations and working people of Caucasia, for help in the struggle for the victory of the Soviet power.On March 23 the same Committee held a session and decided to proclaim Soviet rule in “South Ossetia” and organize the South Ossetian Revcom. This was an outrageous violation of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Georgia.Soviet Russia acted upon the concepts of benefit of the strategic position of Transcaucasia and its oil fields, upon the interests of the world revolution and proletarian internationalism expressed through an idea of “bringing liberation to the workers on the bayonets of the Red Army.

    Although an alliance for military purposes was refused, a friendly approach to Russia was welcomed. Eventually a definite treaty of peace was made with Soviet Russia (7th May 1920) whereby both powers mutually recognised each other, and promised to live in peace and harmony.

    Georgia has faithfully observed this peace, but not so the Soviet Russia. Scarcely had the latter concluded peace than its troops invaded Georgia from the side of Azerbaijan, which Soviet Russia had seized shortly before by a coup d’état. Once more the Georgians succeeded in throwing back the invading enemy, and again offered peace as soon as the beaten foe was ready for it. Scarcely had peaceful conditions been re-established than the Bolshevists organised new military invasions from the north (Roki), in order to provoke insurrections in northern Georgia. Almost at the same time (July, 1920) a Communist conspiracy was discovered in Abkhasia, having relations with the Russian Military Command, and implicating two officials belonging to the Russian Mission in Tiflis.

    Soon Russian troops from Azerbeijan proceeded to Armenia, in order to seize the country and transform it into a vassal of Russia. Both in Armenia and Azerbaijan Russian troops assembled in a threatening guise, on the borders of Georgia. This fact compelled the latter to mobilise also.

    The language of the Russian Representative in Tiflis became increasingly threatening. In the middle of December, a conspiracy was discovered in Tiflis, the object of which was to provoke street-fighting in that town, which would furnish a pretext for the invasion of Georgia by the Russian troops watching on the border, 60 kilometres from Tiflis. Among the conspirators, officials of the Russian Embassy were again discovered.

    This would have justified the Georgian Government in giving Herr Scheimann, the Russian ambassador in Tiflis, his passports, but it contented itself with asking Lenin to recall Scheimann and replace him by another person, because his activities disturbed the good relations between the two States.

    But Soviet Ambassador Scheimann remained in Georgia.

    Thus at the beginning of January,1921 the situation of the small Republic had become very troubled. The Bolshevist invasion which threatened in the spring if the Moscow Dictators had not themselves been checked, bas now come sooner than was expected. The fate of Georgia only depended on the strength of her arms. In the first period of independent Georgia, its forces had been put to many hard tests. But its severest trial came last spring, as the result of the Bolshevist invasion by the strong Russian forces, simultaneously from the south, from the north, and from the east.

    This treacherous invasion occurred without any declaration of war in the first half of February, 1921. The world first heard of it from the Georgian side. The Social-Democratic Party and the Trade Unions, as well as the Federal Socialist Party, announced positively, together with the Georgian Government, that Georgia had been invaded by Russian troops and was threatened to the utmost. They expected an immediate and vigorous protest against the proceedings of Moscow would be forthcoming from the International Socialist Congress at Vienna.

    The representations which came from Moscow, and which decisively denied any invasion of Georgia by the Russian Army, served to confuse the judgment.

    In order to be able to deny the invasion of Russian troops, it was first stated that some villages on the Georgian frontier had revolted, embittered by the tyranny of the, Georgians. Some Armenians on the southern border had given the signal, and then the rebellion spread to Signakh, which lies in the east of Georgia, towards Azerbaijan. Simultaneously, Abkhasia had risen in the extreme north-west Georgia, close to the Russian border.

    It is a remarkable fact that the rebellions broke out precisely in those places, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Abkhasia, where large and constantly increasing masses of Russian troops had been quartered since November. If, in spite of all, the Russian Government still attempted to create the belief that its three strong armies on the southern, eastern, and north-western boundaries of Georgia refrained from any share in the fight between the Communists and Menshevist Georgia, this is obviously because invasion by the Russian Armies would represent the most impudent and shameless mockery of the principles most sacred to every Socialist, which principles even the most hardened Bolshevists still had doubts about throwing on the scrap-heap.

    But scarcely was Tiflis captured than the picture immediately changed. No further mention was made in the Russian telegrams of ethnic minorities, rebellions, but now it suddenly appears that Communists had captured Tiflis and overthrown the Georgian Government.

    Pravda (in Moscow) congratulates the Georgian comrades, and says that “Menshevist Georgia has become the last refuge for the counter-revolution.” Death sentence of Democratic Republic of Georgia was pronounced in Moscow.

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