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Republican National Security Leak Hypocrisy

Aw, pity the poor, oppressed Republicans who are in high dudgeon over the Obama Administration’s “playing politics” with terrorism. Really? As I recall it was not the Obama Administration that jumped on the arrest of Abdulmuttalab-i.e., the failed underwear bomber–to tout their prowess as a fighter of Al Qaeda. Nope. It was the Republicans who insisted that Obama had surrendered to terrorists because the FBI, per standard practice, arrested the suspect because he was on U.S. territory and U.S. law applied.

As I have noted before, the FBI followed the same procedure they employed in previous, similar cases. The arrest of failed shoe bomber, Richard Reid, back in December 2001 is the very same thing. We did not hear from one elected Republican back then accusing Bush of being “soft” on terrorists. Not one insisted that Reid go to Guantanamo.

And don’t give me the bullshit that “this is different.” The only difference here is that Umar Farouk is Nigerian and flew to Detroit. Both men had training from Al Qaeda operatives. Here is what is really galling.

Republican crocodile tears on “politicizing terrorism.” Especially from the likes of Kit Bond. Here’s what I wrote five years ago:

The Bush Administration’s new offensive against leakers just reminds us that when the President’s political standing is at stake all is fair if the purpose is to protect the Pres…., er I mean the nation. Too bad George Bush did not express the same outrage when Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, and others in his employ, told eager journalists that Joe Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA operative. I guess divulging secrets is okay if the White House needs to discredit Joe Wilson and his claim (subsequently proved true) that the President had misled the nation during his January 2004 State of the Union address. Plus, it offers the added benefit of warning the rest of the intelligence community–shut up or else. You can’t have whistle blowers coming out that would tarnish the President’s image as a tough guy waging war on the terrorists.

I also seem to recall that the Bush White House used leaks in the midst of the 2004 Presidential campagin to burnish the President’s image and keep Americans on edge. Remember the name of Mohammed Naeem Noor Khan? His name was leaked to the New York Times in August of 2004 while Khan was still cooperating with Pakistani, CIA, and British authorities as part of a sting operation against Osama bin Laden’s network. On the eve of the Republican convention, unnamed senior NSC officials told New York Times reporters that Mr Khan was being used to send e-mails to al-Qaida members as part of a coordinated effort to identify and dismantle terrorist networks. Just because this leak destroyed the secret program’s effectiveness was no big deal because he helped remind Americans that George Bush was the only one who could keep us safe.

And here’s a snippet, courtesy of Laura Rozen, describing my old CIA colleague’s encounter with Senator Kit Bond. Jim Marcinkowski and I were trying to set the record straight on Valerie Plame’s outing. Check this out:

[Jim] Marcinkowski was an unlikely Bush White House antagonist. As the first chairman of the Michigan State University College Republicans, he had received an award from Jack Abramoff—the now-disgraced GOP lobbyist who was tight with the Bush White House—for heading the fastest-growing state College Republicans chapter in the country. He had helped run Reagan’s 1980 campaign outreach to Michigan college students. Marcinkowski had been a CIA officer, an FBI clerk, a Navy enlistee, a public prosecutor, and by 2003, was deputy city attorney for Royal Oak, Michigan.5In 1992, he ran, unsuccessfully, as a Republican for a state office. Marcinkowski later donated to the Bush/Cheney campaign at a 1999 fund-raiser headlined by Laura Bush. …

Nothing in his past experience as an FBI clerk, CIA officer, lawyer, and public prosecutor prepared Marcinkowski for what he faced when he went to testify before Pat Roberts’s intelligence committee about the Plame leak. “We sent a letter to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, saying we want to tell them something,” Marcinkowski recounted. The letter was signed by a half-dozen former CIA officers, including three from Valerie’s 1985 Career Trainee class. “They blew us off. After that, nothing happened until [then Senate minority leader] Tom Daschle contacted us and said, ‘I am going to have a Senate Democratic committee hearing,’” and asked if they would appear.

The Democratic Policy Committee hearing was supposed to take place on Friday, October 24, 2003. Shortly after it was scheduled, Marcinkowski recounts, “my boss here in Detroit got a fax from a staffer on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Basically it said in some snotty way, ‘Somebody claims in your office to have information.’ [The staffer] made it sound like, ‘Who is this punk? If he wants to say anything, he can come in at 1pm on Thursday’”—the day before the policy committee hearing was scheduled, Marcinkowski recounts.

He provided the fax sent October 20, 2003 by then Republican chief of staff to the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bill Duhnke—strangely, to Marcinkowski’s boss. “The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has received a fax from your office sent by James Marcinkowski,” Duhnke, Roberts’s staffer, wrote in his e-mail to Marcinkowski’s boss. “Mr. Marcinkowski claims to have ‘important information’ he wishes to share with the committee. . . . The letter states that ‘[t]ime is of the essence.’ Therefore, I respectfully request that Mr. Marcinkowski contact me at his earliest convenience to discuss an appearance before the Committee.” It seems obvious that, under the guise of a backhanded invitation to say something to the committee, Duhnke intended to try to get Marcinkowski in trouble with his boss. But it failed, Marcinkowski says, because his boss is an old friend with whom he had worked for years, who recognized the virtue in Marcinkowski’s desire to seek justice for their former colleague Valerie. “Like I told you, it was my classmate they exposed,” Marcinkowski says he told his boss. “He said, ‘OK, great. Go beat the shit out of somebody.’”

“The next evening I was on the plane to D.C.,” Marcinkowski continues. As it turned out, various other colleagues were out of town and Marcinkowski ended up facing twelve senators from the Senate Intelligence Committee for the closed briefing on Thursday, October 23, 2003, all by himself.

Marcinkowski told the senators that the exposure of Plame by her own government was “unprecedented. It was our classmate. We had kept a secret for eighteen years. And we were all betrayed by this White House.” Marcinkowski had prepared a statement to deliver in open session before the Senate Democratic Policy committee the next day. “I also said she was covert, and I knew it. And they were taking it very seriously.”

He took questions after his statement. One of the committee’s more moderate Republicans, Chuck Hagel, a Vietnam vet from Nebraska, asked him, do you think this White House can investigate itself?

As Marcinkowski responded that if the attorney general was trying to intimidate federal judges, why would you think they would not be prepared to intimidate a special counsel, a ranking Republican close to the White House, Christopher “Kit” Bond of Missouri, walked in.

“He went off,” Marcinkowski said. “‘I am not going to sit here and listen to this guy attack my good friend, the attorney general Ashcroft, of this country.’ “A total “food fight” ensued, Marcinkowski said, with committee member Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein accusing Bond of trying to intimidate a witness.

After he finished with his testimony and the senators’ questions, Marcinkowski went out the back door of the building and walked over to a little park between the Senate office building and Union Station. He sat down to think about what had just happened and his cell phone rang. It was Tom Daschle’s staffer, who was setting up the hearing for the next day’s Democratic Policy Committee meeting. “And she told me, ‘Jim, Pat Roberts just declared all your testimony to be secret. I don’t know what you are planning on saying tomorrow, but he declared it secret.’”

Marcinkowski, the lawyer and deputy city attorney, was stunned. “I sat on the park bench, in a daze. I didn’t know what the hell to do. Now it hits me, that is why the Senate Select Intelligence Committee had scheduled their testimony for the day before the Senate Democratic public hearing. Until that happened we didn’t hear shit from the Senate Select Intelligence Committee. They slapped the secrecy thing on it, that was their intention,” to try to prevent Valerie’s CIA colleagues from testifying publicly about what had happened to her, and why it was a betrayal of everyone in the CIA.

Marcinkowski called a close friend, an attorney in Detroit, to get legal advice on what he should do, since what he had told the Senate Intelligence Committee was exactly what he planned to tell the Senate Democratic Policy Committee the next day, and Roberts had appeared to try to suppress that testimony by, implausibly, declaring it classified. “‘Jim, I tell you what,’” his friend told him. “‘I already know what you’re going to do. I am going to call all your friends and start collecting bond money right now,’” Marcinkowski recounts. “I told him, ‘You think this is funny. I’m sitting here in a park, by my lonesome, and they’re saying I’m violating all kinds of laws.’ And he said, ‘Yep, and I know exactly what you are doing tomorrow morning.’”

Gathering courage, Marcinkowski called Daschle’s staffer back. “You call Roberts’ office and you tell him, I said that he can go straight to hell,” Marcinkowski says he told her. ….

People like Kit Bond were nowhere to be found when the Bush Administration was playing politics with national security. In fact, they encouraged the reprehensible behavior. Now they want us to believe they have found religion? I don’t think so.

  • Anonymous

    Great comment Larry. These Republican asses should not be playing politics with our national security. The dems never did it in the same way under Bush, particularly on terrorism. Sure they blasted Bush for the wars, but that is completely different.

    These Repugs do a disservice to the country and the security professionals of this country by continually politicizing this issue.

    Most of these Repugs were brief on how the bomber was going to be treated and they said nothing at the time. They only waited till after the incident when they thought there could be political gain to critize.

    By the way the actual protocal that was used for the arrest and interogation of the Detroit bomber was actually written and finalized in 2008, under the Bush adminstration.

  • Observant

    As far as I can see, politics and hypocrisy sometimes go hand in hand and both parties will go down the road of hypocrisy if it fits their agenda. This is nothing new and this isn’t going to change. Plus in all fairness, ppl’s views do and can change. A person has a right to change their views or positions and MOST of us will when it becomes convenient. In this case, politically convenient…….again, what’s new and what’s the big deal?

    What is the point to continue to bring up what happened under Bush?! If anything, it weakens any argument. The Dems painted him as an incompetent president AND he is no longer in office. What good is it to continue to dwell on what happened during the Bush years UNLESS you are trying to point out his mistakes and bad decisions as a reason for us to do better in the current and future. Sort of like learning from past mistakes. If it not used in that context, then what is the point?

    Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what Bush or the GOP did 5-10 yrs ago, what matters is NOW! People are concerned about the present and future!! 

  • atti

    Way to go Larry.  You’re making progress.  You’re getting the Obots in your corner.

  • atti

    Way to go Larry, you’re getting the Obots in your conrer.

    Palin 2012

  • AC

    Kudos for Mr.  Marcinkowski and thanks for keeping us apprised Larry.

  • atti

    Way to go Larry, you’re getting the Obots in your coner. 
     
    Palin 2012

  • atti

    Way to go Larry, you’re getting the Obots in your corner.  
      
    Palin 2012

  • Retired

    When it comes to putting politics above the interests of the people, there doesn’t seem to be too much difference between Republicans and Democrats.  Both have proven to be unworthy of the public’s trust.  Fortunately for their peace of mind, neither gives a rat’s ass about the public trust to begin with.

  • thinker

    No one should play politics with national security.  The fact is that the Obama administration did release sensitive information and the fact that they apparently did so  to stave of taunts and criticism from the republicans is even more reprehensible. 
    The Obama administration is in charge, and they are the ones with the responsiblity of securing the nation, they should be more concerned about this than about looking good or getting the last word.  The fact that the republicans were screw-ups is of no moment — they are no longer in charge and they are free to criticise — the democrats certainly had a field day with the Valerie Plame fiasco. If we are demanding consistency, let’s see how many democrats will call this administration out for releasing this information.

  • DaddysDarlin

    When the Obama’s party is over, I will be very anxious to see what he has hidden from the American people.  The first thing he did was to insure his school transcripts, birth certificate, etc. will be kept secret from the American people.  Why? 
    Both parties are full of corruption and lies, while the American people lives are at stake from foreign terrorists we have little time for the blame game.  I say get over yourselves and get on with the job of protecting our country.
    Obama doesnt know the first thing about being a president, that’s why we are in such big trouble.  He has singlehandedly run our country into the ground.  We have no jobs, no hope for jobs and when our unemployment runs out, then what?
    We can bail out banks and car companies, but we don’t have the money to help the American people.  WTF???
    I live for the day Obama is no longer a factor in our lives.  I just pray that we have the courage we lacked when Bush was president, and impeach the son of a bitch!!!!!

  • Anonymous

    does it always have to be those for and against Obama or left and right or black and white. only idiots 100% agree with everything that one side proposes or does. Many of you NQbots are so fixed in your hatred that it is just plain silly….

  • HARP

    Once again, Holder’s legal exposition is less than compelling. For example, Holder claims the handling of Abdulmutallab was “fully consistent” with prior cases, but his letter refers to Jose Padilla and Ali Saleh Kahlah Al-Marri, two terror suspects captured in the United States, whom President George W. Bush ordered to be transferred to military custody. 

    Several lawyers expert in these matters also point out that on Padilla, Holder cites a Second Circuit opinion reversed by the Supreme Court and refers to a Fourth Circuit decision vacated by the High Court. A former Justice official says: “Holder is increasingly looking like a buffoon. In his letter of self-defense, he says it is an open question whether terrorists arrested in the U.S. may legally be detained as enemy combatants, but he relies on a case overturned by the Supreme Court. Then he makes himself seem even more foolish by not mentioning that the court of appeals that ended up deciding that same case ruled that they could be held as enemy combatants. A first-year lawyer would get fired for a dumb error like that.” Nor does Holder acknowledge the military tribunal system put in place by statutes in 2006 and 2009, which provides an alternative to the criminal justice model he vehemently defends.

    Holder also relies on the Zacarias Moussaoui case to bolster the argument for a civilian trial, which is also a terrible precedent. That proceeding took four and a half years, and the presiding judge said of the trial, “I don’t think in the annals of criminal law there has ever been a case with this many significant problems.”

  • Anonymous

    it completely matters to continue to bring up Bush, particularly when people are blaming this adminstration for stuff that they had very little to do with. stop blaming this adminstration for things like the deficit, the economic downturn, the financial bailouts, etc. and people will stop bringing up Bush. it is really that simple.

    it is also very important to point to the hypocracy. where were all these concerns about putting these terrorists through the civilian process when Bush was doing it…. where were all the concerns about the deficit when Bush was running it up from $5 trillion to about $10 trillion. I never saw one post on NQ complaining about the deficit or debt under Bush. Always the double standard.

  • Anonymous

    what exactly was the sensitive information that was released that was not already in the public domain? just another Repug talking point with no merit.

  • dst

     
     
        Ever since Dems found out the way to win was by passing Karl Rove 101 than taking it up to 505, they have become far more dangerous, in my eyes, than Bush and buddy’s ever were to the future of this country. The addition of three to four zero’s to all the finance equations change mistakes from correctable to country and maybe world busting. There is nothing I have not seen yet from this group in power, going back to the creating the current president, that is not designed as party first and country second and I see no reason in their  desperation that any thing will change.
     

  • Observant

    I TOTALLY disagree! It is a waste of time and is beginning to fall upon deaf ears! You can’t change the past. Bush is OVER DONE FINISHED!! It is past time to move on. The “keep bringing up Bush Card” is not helping Obama or anyone else!

    But you are right on one point, there is always a double standard. There is nothing new with that either. Not saying that its right but With some things, it is what it is. Bottom line, Rehashing Bush isn’t helpful UNLESS you are using his wrong decisions as an example of a route NOT to take.

  • marktarheel

    so many untrue things in this piece….starting with the fact that valerie plame was well known around Washington D.C.  before she was  “outed”   And the most aggrgious thing about this article is that in 2007 the democrat controlled congress passed the military tribunal statute….meaning that the f.b.i. was well within their rights to hand the bomber over to the military……..very poorly written

  • marktarheel

    Also….when richard reid was tried in a civilian court….the 2007 military tribunal statute wasnt even written yet…..you cant compare richard reid to the chrismas day bomber………

  • atti

    You make a good point.  The problem for me arises from several places.  The hoards of paid Obots who flooded the internet in early 08 whose leader called  good and decent people racist.  Do you ask me to turn a blind eye to the incredible primary election crimes committed by that leader, and whose people bragged about how many time they voted in the GE?  Should I forget that 90% of which sector voted for who?  Should I not be worried that this same person threatens to take away that for which I have worked 35 years and who wishes to redistribute it to lazy asses who can’t make it in the greatest country in the world?   I started out in ‘O7 as a Republican and  now, not.  By the Spring of ’08 I was actually drawn into the oneness of NQ in stopping The Won.  I was even pulling for HRC – then the Convention, and that was it forever for anything associated with the D Party. I was embarassed at how hoodwinked I was.  Right now I don’t give a rat’s fuck how egregious the Republicans behave, just as long as we get Obama and his socialists out of government.    All I know is that McCain handed it to the POS because he decided to play ‘nice guy’  against Obama who was/is, in fact, a black mamba.   The Obots love to hear the likes of today’s sermon because it is so easy to link the Republicans to Sarah Palin, fair or not.  When I hear those attacks I seethe.  One of your most vaunted Democrats has just passed.   Take a look at what people are saying about him.  I don’t need to hear anything about the R Party when this ‘hole is typical of yours.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/09/rep-murtha-dies-at-77-after-36-years-in-house/comments/

  • Mandelay

    What’s with Detroit?  

  • retire05

    Can’t compare richard reid to the Panty bomber?  Sure they can; it’s all they’ve got.  Never mind that the Congress has addressed that issue; AFTER RICHARD REID.

    And if you think announcing to the press that the Panty bomber is now talking (after remaining silent per Miranda for weeks) because his family has been brought in, you have to wonder just whose side Holder, Brennan and Obama is on.

    How much danger is Abdulmutallub’s family now in?  Or does no one care because after all, they will return to Nigera and hell, they’re not our problem once we use them up like a cheap suit.

  • Larry Johnson

    You stupid, retarded fucker.  You do not know what the hell you are talking about.  Valerie was not “known” around Washingotn in any sense other than the wife of a former Ambassador.  She lived her cover and the fact that the CIA will still not allow her to acknowledge she worked with the CIA prior to Feb 2003 is further evidence how completely full of shit you are.

  • Doc99

    Note to AG Holder – Since the Pentagon was also attacked on 9-11, there is ample justification to have KSM tried by a military tribunal. Or am I wrong?

  • oowawa

    re: Abdulmutallub’s family.  Really.  Just imagine: we capture a Mafia foot soldier, and the political authorities announce: “Yeah, we mirandized him, but don’t worry–we called in his family and they’re singing like canaries.”

  • marktarheel

    Sorry……newsweek has reported several times that Valerie Plame was indeed well known for exactly what she was…..being nasty isnt very becoming of you.   critisism is fair play for all……being abusive isnt..

  • Observant

    Retire05, you really bring up some excellent points!!

  • Jacob Kirschenbaum, Prof. Emeritus, International Relations

    Thank you Mr. Johnson for this excellent, eye-opener article.
    I would however like to also point out that the whole concept of “terrorism” is a false argument. What Republicans and their puppeteers call “terrorism” is actually the legitimate fight for freedom of Muslims who are being oppressed and tortured by the Zionist regime. There is NO such thing as terrorism. The honorable gentlemen in question, Abdulmuttalab, Umar Farouk, Valerie Plame, et al are brave HEROES that are defending their countries from American and Zionist imperialism. The disgusting “war on terror” was an excuse for Bush W. The Donkey to hide his incompetence and keep the mindless American populace busy while he was snorting coke and destroying the American economy. There is NO terror, and NO terror threat. Let these poor innocent Muslims go and be free. We must close Guantanamo, or risk becoming the most un-ethical country in the world’s history.

  • oowawa

    Uh-Oh . . . He’s baaaack!

  • Brittany

    The flaw in the logic is that the detention camp was not opened unitl 2002.

  • dst

     I have a feeling that if you spent a week at Gitmo than one at Bagram and than had to choose where to spend the next month even you with you famous  title would be happy Gitmo was still open.

  • thinker

    the sensitive information was that the Xmas day bomber had started talking again and was giving a lot of useful information.  Even if this  information was already in the public domain, you will agree that confirmation from the White House gave it a lot more weight.  I think you can figure out for yourself why it is not in our interest for terrorist factions to receive this level of confirmation. 
    Also, I am not a republican.  I am just an ordinary citizen who can think for myself.

  • Guest

    Valerie Plame is a man? Good one.

  • atti

    Well, Guest, things should get better and the deficit will come down now that John Murtha has croaked.  Yes!!!!!!!

     

  • thinker

    surley you can respond without the personal attacks and expletives.  I know that you founded this wonderful site, and I respect that, so please protect this site that you spent so much time and effort building so that it can continue to be a haven for so many of us.

  • AC

    Guest, under what moniker did you visit No Quarter before.

  • AC

    marktarheel,
    How about citing that Newsweek source.  They do cite sources in North Carolina don’t they?

  • Diana L. C.

    Larry,

    I don’t forget how terribly upset the progressives were about the Valerie Plame incident.  MoveOn was giving out bumper stickers that read “Loose Lips Sink Ships: Fire Karl Rove.”

    They had a valid point then–I don’t remember specific articles or reports, but I do know that there was a lot of revision of history going on about Valerie Plame and how well she was known.  All kinds of irrelevant information came out that simply rationalized the way the Bush/Cheney camp excused themselves for outing her.

    I also know how upset I was and stll am about the way the Iraq War was foisted on us–I still believe a part of it was “W’s” way of one-upping and getting revenge for his Daddy.  I hated the idea of rendition and couldn’t believe how easily the country ignored that and the entire waterboarding stuff.  So pointing out they did some things right does not mean they did everything right.

    What is right is right no matter who said it and who did it when.  And wrong is wrong no matter who said it or who did it when.  The whole FBI vs. CIA issue is just word play and semantics as far as I am concerned.  Follow the Constitution and make sure the entire world knows we have a justice system–whether military or civilian–that works according to law, with our founding principles in tact. The Republicans are just making headlines with their arguments about this case; they aren’t making sense.

    I hate it when everyone jumps to the conclusion that they KNOW more than the people dealing with the situation.  I don’t mind the authorities calling in the parents in this case.  They warned us and tried to save their son.  I have sons, and I clearly remember the fear I felt when each was the age of the underpants bomber.  Young men that age are like girls when they are 12-13.  Their braings just don’t work logically as far as I can tell, and if you have a son who already has some problems reasoning, it’s even worse.  A little bit of parental help is not bad in this situation.  If it’s working, it’s working.  All young men who have done done something stupid and illegal are not cut from the same mold.

    I think we’re going to see lots more of these types of young men, and I am sure many will come from inside our borders. 

    Our sense of justice should always be according to law.  I will know our country is going in the wrong direction when the “terrorists” cause us all to go back to lynch mob justice.

    Thanks for staying true to your principles, Larry.

  • HARP

    You must be really pissed after our troops helped Muslims from being slaughtered in Kosovo. You Trolls are so easy to put down but thanks for playing,

    8-)

  • Larry Johnson

    I will tolerate alot but this continual lie spewed by this human exuse for excrement, “MarkTarHell,” is beyond my patience.  Fuck him and everybody else who subscribes to such baseless nonsense.  Valerie was an undercover officer until Robert Novak, with prodding from Richard Armitage and Karl Rove, outed her.  That’s something I will never forgive or forget.

  • Larry Johnson

    Jacob, 
    LIke MarkTarHeel, your are a stupid, ignorant asshole.  Take your anti-semite crap elsewhere.  From me to you and yours, FUCK OFF.

  • Diana L. C.

    Are you also Suzanne Goldstein (or whatever her name is)?  Perhaps your two identies need to merge now.

  • candymarl

    I have to go with Mr. Johnson on this one. This isn’t about Obama. Good grief everything is not about him. What they did to Valerie Plame was wrong. Period. They comprised an important asset and goodness knows how many other people in a quest for political revenge.

    Our government recruits, trains, and asks these people to put their lives on the line often with no chance of recognition or reward. They do it willingly and it is the government’s responsibility to protect them not out them.

    Maybe, just maybe, the administration handled this particular situation correctly.  Does that mean they get a free pass for all of their other blunders? No. But if in this instance they did the right thing that’s a good thing for all of us. Remember, it’s We The People not just Obama.

  • lark

    Why cite sources when the person has read or know the source of his comments? Sources say what sources say.

  • oowawa

    AKA Ephraim Goldblatt
    AKA Joshua Katz
    AKA Farouq Al-Bahr
    AKA Benjamin Nussbaum
    AKA Dr. Saul Kaufmann
    AKA Shosha Kahn-Fayvush
    AKA Nathan Markowitz
    AKA Stan & Mark Wilson
    AKA Vivian T
    AKA Shoshana Berenstein
    AKA Dov Garfinkel
    AKA Jay Gottfried Meyer
    etc. etc. etc.

  • Darwin

    Sorry, had to flag this. You’re sliding into inappropriate territory when you start celebrating your perceived political enemies death. If Sarah Palin ended up in the hospital, how would you feel if her enemies began celebrating her illness?

  • EllenD

    That’s something none of us should forgive or forget.

  • EllenD

    Larry is mad enough to have a Freudian slip.
    Dudgeon – dungeon, which is where I think he’d like to throw some Republicans right now.

  • AC

    Guest (whichever Guest you are at the moment)
    Liked the first part of your comment and then you insult “Many”–ever heard of Dale Carnegie?  How to Win Friends and Influence People
    http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/carnegie/win-friends.html

  • Anonymous

    michael isikoff….is his name……a simple google search will provide all the relevant information

  • AC

    lark I used to like your comments, now you just spout shit all the time.

    Comment all you like-suck on your own breasts–don’t like sour milk!.

  • Anonymous

    continual lie?    I have never spoken to you.   And furthermore,  once you resort to name calling…you lose the debate.   I only hope you are not in authority overanyone with a temper and a blatant disregard for the truth…..sir   and your  “retard” comment was offensive,  as I am the parent of a mentally retarded child.  

  • lark

    Larry Johnson says: And don’t give me the bullshit that “this is different. And later says, ”That’s something I will never forgive or forget.

    Both of these last two articles have the same theme. You want to criticize the present by going to the past to get the rationalization you need to make your opinion sound logical and satisfactory to you and to others.

    Yes, everybody does that – at least in your mind and obviously in your experience – that’s the method of excellence. The definitions you need you find them always in the past.

    Why don’t you try – not that you will try because you have no use for this – giving the present – not the past – the preponderance of the evidence. The past is gone. Yes a lot of people make money recollecting the past but think about it this way. Suppose that Steve Jobs of Apple would continually criticize his present by recollecting all his definitions from the past. What new products and system will he be giving us next.

    Try to get your definitions from the present instead of from the past. Maybe then we will discover something new.

  • lark

    Impresive.

  • atti

    Ha!  You goody=goody.  This corpse is not deserving of civility after what he did to this country with the unprecendented porking.  Flag me.  It won’t stop me.  The W Times had to initially pull down the board because it was uniformly vicious on his record, and celebratory on his exiting.  It then re-listed the board and immediately filled up with the same kind of posts.  This POS built a airport to nowhere with our tax money. Yes, indeeed!!!!!!

  • Larry Johnson

    Okay brain surgeon, try this–despite the Republican lie that the FBI failed to get any valid, valuable intel from Abdulmuttalab, they did in fact get such infofmation and secure his cooperation.  Just as they did in the past.  They don’t make this shit up on the fly.  This has nothing to do about arguing the past.  But proven methods and tactics that have worked reliablly in the past continue to work reliably in the present.  You are a complete dumbshit.

  • Jazzman

    Your wrong….not even close…

    There is no dispute that the Bill of Rights applies to ALL persons in US custody except enemy soldiers.Terrorists are criminals not soldiers and should not even be given that level of respect…………even if an enemy soldier….

  • Darwin

    That’s your perception of events. I’m sure there are some constituents in his district that believe he did a fine job.

    Just like there are some who think Sarah Palin did a fine job as governor of Alaska and some who do not. And I’m sure you’ll support the right of those who think Sarah Palin is corrupt to dance on her grave should she come to an untimely end, won’t you?

  • AC

    Guest, Larry wasn’t responding to you.  And the rest of your comment is probably bullshit!  Learn to follow what people are commenting on.

  • Hokma

    I was just reading the comments and noticed that yours always makes a vicious attacks on people. Just curious, but do you live in a rubber room? Just asking.

  • Hokma

    AC – I was just reading all the comments and noticed that yours are always in the form of a vicious attack. I’m just curious, but do you live in a rubber room? Just asking.

  • Anonymous

    atti,

    you are looney…!

  • Shulamit Kahn-Berenstein

    This is an excellent article and an excellent point. I would like to commend Mr. Johnson on his calm and logical arguments. He must be a very strong man to stay the course, while facing so many of the lies that surround us. To those of us that have been following the descent of the US Government into Fascism during the Bush/Cheney years, this is hard to do. I am enraged by the use of nonsensical non-existent threats to scare people into savage behavior.

    The US media is controlled by people that get their orders and instructions from Tel Aviv and the unjustly occupied city of Jerusalem. This is why all we hear is terrorism and violence that is falsely attributed to Muslims. I happen to be educated (Brandeis University thank you), so I know for a fact that Islam is the most peaceful religion, and can in fact compete with Buddhism when it comes to peacefulness. Violence was invented by Jews and perfected by Christians.

    Now to my more salient (and main) point: we cannot waste our time on Republican/Zionist fear-mongering which has only one intention: to get our eyes off the ball, and away from our goals.
    What are our goals? What are our top priorities?
    - Passing Obama’s excellent medical insurance program.
    - Unionizing all US employees. Also, legalizing and unionizing all Mexican guests in the US.
    - Putting an end to the rapacious and vulgar and unfair system of American Capitalism.
    - Putting the government in charge of all businesses, and putting an end to the filthy rich “private sector” and “small business” who are just thieves in disguise.
    - Standing behind Obama and getting as many homosexuals in the US Army. When we have enough out and proud gays in the military there will be no more wars, I promise you.
    - Establishing world peace by talking to all nations of the world and making friends with them, which Obama was doing until he was interrupted by the bestial Republicans.

    I commend those who make their arguments calmly, I however am ENRAGED by the propaganda and the filth that Republican thugs are putting out there to confuse us and to derail the agendas of our respected, beloved and extremely popular President Obama. Let me also state this as a Brandeis educated woman: my children will not torture Muslim men for Dick Cheney and they will not rape Palestinian women for Krauthammer and Netanyahu. Enough is enough!

  • Hokma

    “retire05″ – it is a strawman argument to compare Richard Reid which was only a few months after September 11th and before any new national security acts had been voted on.

    The Christmas Day bomber happened 8 years after September 11 there is far more learning and precedent that should be looked at.

    The fact is that once again Obama is ignoring historical and legal precedents to force us to see that he is right and everyone else is wrong.

    This administration was caught flat footed with the Fort Hood attack and now the Christmas Day bomber. This is an administration is that is built to remain in campaign mode and not to govern. That is evident.

  • Hokma

    “Jazzman” – The Constitution and over 200 years of legal predecent support military tribunals in cases of enemy combatents who vcommit war crimes. It is worth reviewing before making a statement like that.

  • Hokma

    Clearly you are not Kirshenbaum and are probably a muslim mole.

    “their puppeteers call “terrorism” is actually the legitimate fight for freedom of Muslims”

    All I can say is say to that is if there is another WTC tragedy it is you I see choosing to jump off a burning building, of course in the name of what you call “freedom.”

    I can’t say what I think, but Larry said it for me.

  • lark

    This dumbshit happens to agree with that. I have been listening to the news too, as I also read Drudge Report 10 times a day and flip to the links. I do not support like you the Republicans talking points. Although I have it against Obama when he lies, I have an admiration for his living daily in the present – coming daily with new shit – which perplexes Krauthammer, who looks like his been slammed a pie in his face every day. I love it when he gets to hear the question from Bret Baier

    I too support trying these people who commit terrorist acts in civilian environments in civilian court and more so I know that if we tried Abu la la la in military court we would have a big issue with Nigeria too.

    But me ask is dumb, thank God.

  • Anonymous

    You watch too much of FOX and listen to the idiot Kit Bond. There was absolutely no release of any classified information. There is nothing that has been released that could help any terrorists. All politics.

  • AC

    Hokma why don’t you tell us again that Churchill and Stalin had nothing to do with establishing the Nuremberg Tribunal.
    Gee you know just so much, how do you live with yourself?

  • AC

    Hokma why don’t you tell us again that Churchill and Stalin had nothing to do with establishing the Nuremberg Tribunal.
    Gee you know just so much, how do you live with yourself?

    Most of my comments are light and funny to anyone with a brain!
    Leaves yoiiu out. Please school me again on Nuremberg.

  • oowawa

    O boy–a new name to add to the above list!

  • AC

    Hokma, here you are a few days ago commenting on Nuremberg:
    “FDR authorized the tribunals on his own. Stalin and Churchill had nothing to do with it. Maybe you are thinking of the Nuremberg trials.”

    And you have the temerity  to suggest I go to the Library—all you do is insult anyone and everyone who calls your bluff on all knowing.
    Gee you know just so much, how do you live with yourself?
     
    Most of my comments are light and funny to anyone with a brain!
    Leaves you out. Please school me again on Nuremberg.
    Moreover, when I’m wrong I admit it unlike the pusillanimous way that you end communication.

  • EllenD

    This seems to have attracted a lot of flies.

  • Hokma

    You are a liar and a moron.
    I said FDR authorized military tribunals for nazi sabateours that landed in the U.S. You just lied and applied that to Nuremberg. Only a moron like you would not know that FDR was dead at the time of Nurenberg. Show the rest of the comment a**hole.
    You are the picture of the contented look of pure ignorance. Go bounce off you rubber room walls.
    Clearly anyone named “AC” has a few loose wires.

  • oowawa

    Same fly, but his name is Legion . . .

  • Diana L. C.

    lark, sweetie!

    (I am sure you won’t mind being called “sweetie,” as your POTUS who lives only in the present uses that term of endearment when he wants.)

    History is NOT all lies.  The post-modernism rants you make are a clear sign that you’ve been reading too much from academia–at least in the pseudo “sciences” such as psychology, literary analysis, sociology, etc.  Try reading some of the new findings in NEURO sciences.  There IS a reality out there.  There IS much about the PAST that the body uses daily to keep us working as individuals.  We need the PAST to process the present and think about how to react to possible futures. 

    The mind/brain connection is very important.  We are not minds floating somewhere in a non-real world. 

    I don’t doubt that you read a lot, and I give you credit as a person reading English as possibly a second language.  But you won’t get anywhere if you keep up these non provable theories about what you call “modernism” or however you want to put it.  Quit trying to deconstruct everyone’s writing.  You did a terrible job when I briefly explained how words are added to English.  You were too busy trying to deconstruct my explanation that you wrote gibberish and didn’t get my point about how English has become what it is today.  

    Deconstruction is a ridiculous form of criticism, used by people who are too sure of their own egocentric point of view to believe any information from other texts counts.

    In that regard, Larry is correct in the epithet he used for you.

  • AC

    Hokum, You are so clever, but what you can’t do is change the written record. I quoted you (cut and paste).  You wrote it (and it’s still there) but now you say you didn’t. You must be relate to Dick Cheney.
    Cry me a river!

  • Diana L. C.

    Do you think this is another of Suzanne Goldsteins aliases?  Or maby just a soul mate.

  • AC

    Here is the complete comment-now you can slice and dice it as you please-but it wont change what you wrote.

    Hokma
    FDR authorized the tribunals on his own. Stalin and Churchill had nothing to do with it. Maybe you are thinking of the Nuremberg trials.

    The war we are fighting now is a war but not a conventional war. It is not against a nation state, but it is as much a war as any other, just different weapons, no uniforms, and civilian battlefields.

    More importantly they delcared on us a long time ago. We chose to ignore it until September 11. In the years since we have forgotten that they are at war with us.

    According to polls now, a majority of Americans believe that these terrorists do not deserve Miranda Rights or should be tried in civilian courts.
    4 days ago, 8:42:40 PM
    – Flag – Like – Reply

  • oowawa

    Yes, the same person or group of persons, Diana.  One from “Shulamit Kahn-Berenstein” just disappeared.  If they were not so heavy-handed and unsubtle, they could present a real problem for this site.

  • AC

    And here is the c omment by Jazzman that your comment responded to.

    Jazzman
    Hokma

    Your no dope and your comments on this subject are really beneath your intelligence. German spy’s were associated with a State Nation “Germany” and especially during time of a “declared war” “can” fall under a military tribunal and in that case the tribunal was used to shield the governments chief investigators and sentencing decisions.

    Terrorist do not fall under a nation sates “normally” and its very hard to classify them as state actors. Even in the case of PANAM 103 with a tie to Lybia the trial was a criminal one.

    I will also add that FDR set the war crimes tribunal up along with Churchill and Stalin. Not by himself. Terrorist are nothing more than criminals and we have a very long history using our legal system to bring these guys to justice.

    As far as Obama’s Administration spouting their mouths off…well I have a huge problem with that, as I do with the Republicans playing their head games….

    That should piss everyone off……
    4 days ago, 8:28:02 PM
    – Flag – Like – Repl

  • Hokma

    What does this have to do with anything.
    Don’t you realize just how ignorant you appear to others?
    Back to the rubber room for you.
    Must be those loose wires AC.

  • Jazzman

    Hokma

    So go ahead and make my day?

    War crimes? Enemy Combatants?  Terrorist? You re-writing history are you?  Part of the Bush team that redefined that word? Doubter of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights? One of those who wants to be the decider of who gets treated how? 

    Ok show me this 200 years of jurist prudence of using military tribunals to try enemy combatants?  A term we here in the US use since 911 rather than “unlawful combatant” Meaning person(s) who do not qualify under the 1949 Gevena Convention as POWs.Such as spy’s….Though there is a real history of trying terrorists under our civil/criminal procedures. 

    Its simple there are two ways of brining these guys to justice…US Federal Court and yes even militay tribunals though there is no 200 years of history of doing such to terrorists,

    There is more history of trying terrorists in US Federal Courts than there is military tribunals….

    Now before you write a response engage that brain of your rather than put your foot in your mouth.

  • bob

    Obama is not a socialist. If he had been one, I would have voted for him. If he were one now, I might support him. Obama is a classic Rockefeller Republican. The GOP might not recognize that today because the party mouthpieces are dominated by rabid frothers who set the model for the Obots of which so many, including me, complain. If you don’t like socialism, start your own country, and by the way, don’t cash those unemployment checks, welfare checks (either personal or of the “small business stimulus money” grant variety), don’t apply for VA benefits and for God’s sake don’t sign up for Medicare or Medicaid and refuse those Social Security checks (after all my father paid the taxes for your social security network today and my grandchildren are going to be paying for all the soicalist money flowing to the banks.). Oh and forget those other socialist services like schools, police and fire protection. If you have a heart attack, be a true-blue anitsocialist so instead of dialing 911, call Rush.

  • Hokma

    You know this is not even close. If you had the slighest degree of intellectual curiosity you would find out quickly that you ahve NO idea what youa re talking about and would not embarass yourself.

    You’re just not worth respnding to.

  • atti

    You can say what you will about me,  you Obot, but Odumbo’s place in history is so close to be cemented:  fraud, Indonesion, felon, racist, anticonstitutional, communist, Muslim, traitor…where do you fit in with the Obama regime?  Are you getting your orders from Ayers.  “Go get that ol’ fart and stick a sickle up his ass for our spiritual leader Stalin.”

    Name one thing in my previous post that isn’t correct or true.  You can’t. That’s the mode du communismes…deny, deny, deny.   You can’t you fucking airbag.  GFY

  • FLDemFem

    Hokma, “AC” is short for Animal Control, which means he is used to dealing with the likes of you.
    8-)

  • bob

    Oh, amen.Sister. That remains one of my major disappointments with Little O The Precious. Libby et.al. should have been pursued by the legal system and all of them tried for fucking treason. Treason, damnit! Excuse my language, please, but if the Plame inclident had occurred on the battlefield, Libby would have been at least fragged if not outright shot by the combatants.

  • atti

    You can throw insults at me,  you Obot, but Odumbo’s place in history is so close to be cemented:  fraud, Indonesion, felon, racist, anticonstitutional, communist, Muslim, traitor…where do you fit in with the Obama regime?  Are you getting your orders from Ayers.  “Go get that ol’ fart and stick a sickle up his ass for our spiritual leader Stalin.” 
     
    Name one thing in my previous post that isn’t correct or true.  You can’t. That’s the mode du communismes…deny, deny, deny.   You can’t you fucking airbag.  GFY

  • bob

    I wish you wold quit sugarcoating it, Larry. =-X

  • atti

    You can throw insults at me,  you Obot, but Odumbo’s place in history is so close to be cemented:  fraud, Indonesion, felon, racist, anticonstitutional, communist, Muslim, traitor…where do you fit in with the Obama regime?  Are you getting your orders from Ayers.  “Go get that ol’ fart and stick a sickle up his ass for our spiritual leader Stalin.”  
      
    Name one thing in my previous post that isn’t correct or true.  You can’t. That’s the mode du communismes…deny, deny, deny.   You can’t you fucking  socialist airbag.  GFY

  • atti

    You can throw insults at me,  you Obot, but Odumbo’s place in history is so close to being cemented:  fraud, Indonesion, felon, racist, anticonstitutional, communist, Muslim, traitor…where do you fit in with the Obama regime?  Are you getting your orders from Ayers.  “Go get that ol’ fart and stick a sickle up his ass for our spiritual leader Stalin.”   
       
    Name one thing in my previous post that isn’t correct or true.  You can’t. That’s the mode du communismes…deny, deny, deny.   You can’t you fucking  socialist airbag.  GFY
    Today, 8:07:17 PM – FlagLikeReplyDeleteEditModerate

  • lark

    I don’t deconstruct as you aptly try to understand my participation here.

    Calling me sweetie drops a clinch. I feel lovely and adorable – my dentist helped that today. I bought nice looking shinny teeth.

    But I live as a minimalist postmodern – does that bother you?

  • FLDemFem

    Ellen,

    “We are not minds floating somewhere in a non-real world.”  
    You and I aren’t, but I am pretty sure lark is.  :-D

  • lark

    I don’t deconstruct as you aptly try to understand my participation here. 
     
    Calling me sweetie drops a clinch. I feel lovely and adorable – my dentist helped that today. I bought nice looking shinny teeth (not).
     
    But I live as a minimalist postmodern – does that bother you?

  • bob

    Thanks for the thread people. Good stuff, but I will have to take another blood pressure pill. (Just thinking about Plame and Libby is worth a ten point boost). And let’s remember that old cliche about those who don’t remember the past… there, in a nut shell, is why history is really worth it.

  • lark

    You don’t have to remember anything. You have the internet.

  • atti

    “Did a fine job.”   That is so funny, you stupid fucking moron.  You sound like a Washington bureaucrat who passed the Civil Service Excam, barely.   Do you mean his constituents who made a lot of money building Brigadoon International Airport? MG! You are someone right out of the politburo, or the  union for the men’s room attendants at the Kremlin.  Of course, you can dump on Sarah!  That’s the good Ol’ USA – not Russia, Venezuela or France.  You are so fucking dumb.

  • Jazzman

    Really ..   Like I said put up or shut up….. Here moron start educating yourself... There are three JAGs in my family but you know better… your an ass….

  • atti

    Yeah, Guest is getting his orders from Ayers.  His posts reek of it. Smelly.

  • Diana L. C.

    If you don’t remember anything, how will you know what search terms to use to look it up on the internet? 

    How will you know what to think when you aren’t near a computer or your handheld device is not working.  What if you are in a situation in which you have to make a decision NOW and don’t have time to look it up on the internet?  Are you waiting for the day when your brain is hooked up to a matrix?

  • AC

    There should be a “like it a lot” button for this fits the bill.

  • Diana L. C.

    Wow!  I hope your sources are alway valid.  I hope your sources have credibility.  I hope you didn’t make up your sources.  Since I don’t know the answer to any of these issues, I guess I can discount anything you say.  It’s all a made up jumble in your mind floating out in your post-modern haze.

  • arabella trefoil

    I would feel that I know where all the Obots are. And I would know that I would have 24 hours of peace and quiet after the Obots finished their “Palin is Poo Poo” party and were waiting for their hangovers to go away.

  • arabella trefoil

    His name is legion. Like Satan, he has many names.

  • AC

    You all are killing me–I’m on strict order to reduce my laughter to 8 hours a day. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
    Gotta  take a break.  Snowing again in DC–Already 3 inches in Alexandria.
    Tomorrow I’ll be ‘Walking in a winter wonderland”

  • AC

    oowawa, pray I add to your list:
    Suzanne Goldstein
    Josh Goldman
    Yisroel Kupferberg
    Nathan Finkelstein
    Respectful Guest

  • arabella trefoil

    The voices in lark’s head are a big help.

  • oowawa

    Duly noted–Thanks.  You know, I get the creepy feeling that this is just barely scratchiing the surface . . . cue CD playing:

    Who are you?
    Who Who–Who Who
    Who are you?
    Who Who–Who Who?

  • Seymour

    Whoa…this blog is going south and I aint goin with it. See ya charter members in the trenches……and be well.

    Seymour 

  • lark

    Don’t take my words literally. I don’t take anything as a fact. Facts do not exist as facts. People make them facts, don’t they, to accomplish a task, don’t they? You know what you know. 

    For example: The already obsolete 2010 Census, is said to ask people about their race. Now figure this out. The first so many millions prints came out with the category: Negro. Ha! For most Blacks the category Negro has continuing changing connotations. Most do not consider themselves Negro if they have light colored bronze skin. So finding out at the Census Bureau that the category Negro would create false data, they printed another millons batch with the category: Black for a race. Except there is really no such thing as a Black race or is there? Of course there is a Black race. There is a black race if you call it a Black race, no?

    Murtha died from complication from his operation. Now those are not facts. But we know he died.

    CNN knows that Laura Silsby is guilty. Now they are busy giving us the facts.

  • oowawa

    It’s cool when you don’t need an internet connection to access the world wide web.  Wish I could do that.

  • oowawa

    t’s cool when you don’t need an internet connection to access the World Wide Web.  Wish I could do that.

  • lark

    So now the already obsolete 2010 Census has 2 different labels under one category. To merge them would rise as a merge. Not a clean, pure category. People would rise as Black or Negro but you wouldn’t know would you what they marked.

    Science is dead.

  • AC

    Darn, just when I was intent on disliking lark, I’m drawn back because she likes FLDemFem’s quip.

  • atti

    I will.

  • EllenD

    I think that was Diana, but I agree about lark. He’s what the British call “a waste of space”.

  • AC

    Seymour what?
    Lighten up.

  • AC

    Seymour of what? 
    Lighten up.

  • oowawa

    Going South?  Singin’ polly wolly doodle all the day . . . bye bye Seymour–take care y’all!

  • EllenD

    Gosh, I’m tired of lark. Perhaps he could use the Speaker’s Corner in Hyde Park for his disconnected rants.

  • ces

    Somebody change the newspaper in here, his(?) droppings are stinkin’ up the place… 

  • Hokma

    Wow you relaly got me there.
    Another of the hopelessly intelligence challenged.

  • Hokma

    Now we know where you can find the information, I would suggest starting to actually read it.

    I’m not impressed that you have 3, 5, or a battalion of JAGS in your family.

    Facts matter and you have none.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Suzanne Goldstein, yeAH that one. Yikes! >:o

  • TeakWoodKite

    Lark, have worn out you copy of “Be Here Now” meditation by Ram Dass?
    postmodern Lark? Your citing something in the past  LOL
     
    Mr Johnson, the Republicans screwed up and would wag the dog to cast a shadow on the current goings on. I am along way down the thread and there have only a few direct comments on you points.
    (who knows the night is young, it may increase) .

  • TeakWoodKite

    Lark, have worn out your copy of “Be Here Now” meditation by Ram Dass?  

    postmodern Lark? Your citing something in the past  LOL  
       
    Mr Johnson, the Republicans screwed up and would wag the dog to cast a shadow on the current goings on. I am along way down the thread and there have only a few direct comments on you points.  
    (who knows the night is young, it may increase) .

  • TeakWoodKite

    LOL If comcast shuts of my connection to the internet, will that give virtual amnesia? Or if they only give a slower speed is like being “virtually challenged” and in need of Title One funding?

  • TeakWoodKite

    LOL If comcast shuts of my connection to the internet, will that give me a case of virtual amnesia? Or if they only give me a slower connection speed is like being “virtually challenged” and in need of Title One funding?

    Lark, I am not a borg.

  • Linda C

    Just because the “majority of people” don’t believe that terrorist don’t deserve a lawyer doesn’t make it so or law or even right. We have laws and a Consitution for a reason and this is one of them. How many of us in our heart of hearts think pedophiles or rapists deserve a lawyer?  No matter how unpleasant this all is to us and goes against our emotions, we have to keep ours (being American) what is ours (being American) or we will loose too much in the process.

  • FLDemFem

    AC, she does that to most of my remarks. I see it as a form of sucking up. I don’t care for it.

  • FLDemFem

    Minimalists have computers?? Who knew?

  • Captain Jack Sparrow

    Facts matter and he has none? What a load of baloney.  Facts Hokma ? After reading your posts I don’t see any facts just mindless musings.

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    Who gives a rat’s crack about who did what when.

    The question is, what should we be doing right now, and who has the Constitutional authority about what should be done?

    Here is a clue: The authority does not rest with the President.