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Settling for the Possible

Sigh. No matter how loudly the American people decry Obamacare, the White House and Democratic leadership keep digging that hole deeper and deeper. (See “White House: If GOP Filibusters, We’ll Pass Health Reform Via Reconciliation.”)

Bronwyn slaps her forehead. Have you ever seen a White House so stubborn and so out of touch with the people and their priorities? Last night on the John Batchelor radio show (podcasts), his political panel bemoaned the “cult of personality” that surrounds the president, especially his Chicago gang (Robert Gibbs, Valerie Jarrett, et al). Mr. Obama has no truthtellers near him. Mr. Obama has no one to tell him emphatically that Americans do not want this legislation, and instead want Washington to focus on healing the economy and growing jobs. Mr. Obama and his “cult” remain convinced that his personality alone will suffice to sell most anything to Americans.

Furthermore, have you ever seen a bill so poorly explained that its mere mention makes people cringe with fear, despite Obama’s 20-plus health care speeches? The vast majority of Americans still have no clear picture of what’s in the health bill except that it is a messy patchwork of regulations and “reforms” 2,700 pages long. All Americans have heard are pie-in-the-sky promises. For example, the claim that the bill will pay for itself made people guffaw and groan because we all know that NO legislation ever pays for itself.

In fact, Obama’s White House version of the bill is so vague — it lacks “sufficient detail” — that the Congressional Budget Office’s Doug Elmendorf issued a statement today that the CBO cannot yet prepare a “cost estimate.”

Perhaps the most demoralizing part of this is that the White House seems willing to accept any bill — any bill at all — so long as it is titled Health Care. There is seemingly little interest in actual benefits of the bill as well as those “sufficient details.”

It seems evident that the “cult of personality” and The One simply want to attach themselves to a historic piece of legislation.

I just read The New Yorker’s intimate portrait of economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and his wife Robin Wells. I used to be a fan of Krugman’s, particularly during the primaries when he consistently pointed out that Hillary Clinton’s health care plan was vastly superior to Barack Obama’s, and when he actually condemned Obama’s bill in no uncertain terms.

But now? I am astounded that Krugman has also become willing to settle for any bill:

On the rare occasion when [Paul Krugman and his wife Robin] disagree about something, she will be the one urging him to be more outraged or recalcitrant. She pushed him to denounce the filibuster. She wanted him to be more stubborn in holding out for the public option in the health-care bill. He spent a few sleepless nights wrestling with his conscience about that but ultimately decided that a flawed bill was so much better than no bill at all that he had to support it. “You can get beaten down,” he says. “When Robin and I started writing about health care, single payer was clearly the way to go. And then bit by bit you start saying, ‘O.K., you take what you can get.’ There’s a trap I’ve seen some people fall into—you let your vision of what should be get completely taken over by what appears possible right now—and that’s something I’m trying to avoid.”

So the Nobel laureate has abandoned his principled attacks on Obama’s health care plans during the primaries.

Here’s a sampling of Krugman from March 2008:

Why has Mr. Obama stumbled when it comes to economic issues? Well, on health care — which is closely tied to overall concerns about financial security — there is a clear, substantive difference between the candidates, with the Clinton plan being significantly stronger.

More broadly, I suspect that the Obama mystique — his carefully created image as a transformational, even transcendent figure — has created a backlash among those unconvinced that he’s interested in the nuts-and-bolts work of fixing things. Ohio voters were more likely to say that Mr. Obama inspires them — but more likely to say that Mrs. Clinton has a clear plan for the country’s problems.

And Mr. Obama’s attempt to win over workers by portraying himself as a fierce critic of Nafta looked, and was, deeply insincere — an appearance particularly costly for a candidate who tries to seem above politics as usual.

Thanks to Tuesday’s results, the nomination fight will go on to Pennsylvania in April, and probably beyond — and rightly so. It’s now clear that Mrs. Clinton, like Mr. Obama, has strong grass-roots support that cannot be simply brushed aside without alienating voters that the party will badly need in November. …

Deeply insincere. Yes. But that was then, eh, Paul?

Check out more of the formerly principled Krugman here.

Meanwhile, here we sit, unable to contact anyone in Washington, D.C. who is willing to listen to us. God knows that Americans have tried. They have written and called. They have gone to town hall meetings and given their legislators an earful. They have told pollsters that they do not want this health care bill at this time.

Mitch McConnell isn’t one of my favorite people, but he hit the nail on the head on Fox News today when he said, “The American people are quite angry to have this jammed down their throats.” Indeed we are. For whatever good our anger does us.

Questions for you:

Do you think that this health care plan will pass in some form?

Do you think the Democrats’ last-ditch effort to pass a bill via reconciliation will succeed?

ls the “cult of personality” in such a tight circle around Obama that none of them realizes that their stubborn pressure to pass health care is alienating more and more voters, who will punish Democrats in November?

Is the “cult” so vested in its quest to pass what it considers “historic” legislation that it is willing to endanger its majorities in the House and Senate?

  • HARP

    Its not about healthcare. The only reason he wants it, is for the control.
    Read Alinsky.

  • Docelder

    Demoncrats can say the thing was undersold, or explained and sold poorly. The truth is nobody knew exactly what was in the thing. It got to be over 2000 pages of mystery meat. Obama further hurts his credibility by tooling around now and saying it’s “his” plan. I call bullshit. I doubt Obama knows what is in there himself. Further, I doubt he cares. He is an attention junkie and just needs another “historic” fix. He is probably starting to get the shakes from the day to day mundaneness of going to work every day. He probaby needs another trip. He might vacation in Las Vegas next I speculate. We will see him playing slots, just as Bush II before him split some wood. Just a regular guy… right. Maybe Michelle will be seen wearing a pair of shoes from Payless. No, that one there is pure fantasy.

  • candymarl

    To answer your last question: yes. All cults become so invested in their leader that no amount of disagreement gets through.

    I’ve heard of leaders being insulated from the true feeelings of those they govern but I never thought I’d  see it in the US to this degree.

    I’ll say it again: They know. They simply don’t care. Pleasing the leader is everything. This way lies madness.

  • jwrjr

    Many people feel about the “Obamacare” “bill” the same way that Mark Twain felt about the Bible (Its not the parts of the Bible that I don’t understand that bother me.  Its the parts that I do understand.)  It is the same with the Health Insurance Ripoff.

  • Layla

    He does not care what is in it – just so he can proclaim and also the news pundits can claim –   Obama passed health care while he was president.  I detest this man – he cares nothing for us or America. That is a definition of a LOSER in his soul.  He is nothing, he’s an empty shell, totally psycho-narcistic.

  • Geoff Kucera

    During Nixon’s first term, Medicare, which was enacted in 1965, was already bankrupt and health care costs were spiraling out of control (not much has changed).  Nixon, with the Republicans as the minority party in Congress, proposed sweeping health care reform legislation having many of the same features now being proposed, universal coverage, mandates, tax relief and credits.

    The Congressional Republicans were divided with a majority being against their own president leaving Nixon to seek a majority of the Democrats to support his plan for passage.  None other than Teddy Kennedy himself was instrumental in ensuring the defeat of Nixon’s plan.  Teddy had one major objection, which he considered an insult to the integrity of the American people, Nixon’s plan was to be administered by the States, where IMHO under the constitution it rightly belongs, instead of the federal government.  If Teddy didn’t lead the Democrats back then as being the “Party of No,” we may not have had the health care crisis today.

  • mortuus lark

    Docelder doubts everything that is certain. Obama seems in his way to be known as the hardest and most accomplished President ever.

  • mortuus lark

    Brownwyn’s is such a moron is difficult to categorize in that category. Obama’s health reform plan is Hillary’s plan you moron. And you said you were so invested in her plan and now just because it is in the tongue of Obama you refuse to kiss it. Okay that seems just racist.

    Face it Brownwy’s Obama will pass Hillary’s health reform plan exactly as Hillary wanted it to be.

    Face it too that Hillary is Obama number one Obot and the apple of his eye.

    And yes lets cheer Obama for passing the Health Care Reform legislation we so desperately need. It will only ruin the whole American economy. Give thanks to Hillary for that.

  • mortuus lark

    The more important question is how much will Scott Brown cost your grandchildren to give you a cushy comfortable present?

    Can Scott Brown cost your grandchildren 75 to 100,000 being conservative over their lives to pay back to the Treasure just because grandpa and grandma wanted to get more candy from their government?

    Do you care? No you don’t care. I know.

  • mortuus lark

    Brownwyn’s is such a moron is difficult to categorize in that category. Obama’s health reform plan is Hillary’s plan you moron. And you said you were so invested in her plan and now just because it is in the tongue of Obama you refuse to kiss it. Okay that seems just racist. 
     
    Face it Brownwy’s Obama will pass Hillary’s health reform plan exactly as Hillary wanted it to be. 
     
    Face it too that Hillary is Obama number one Obot and the apple of his eye. 
     
    And yes lets cheer Obama for passing the Health Care Reform legislation we so desperately need. It will only ruin the whole American economy, but create thousands of jobs for illegal aliens now in kindergarten.

    Give thanks to Hillary for that.

  • blue collar hoosier

    on the surface this appearse to just be about healthcare, but there is something much more disturbing about this whole debacle.  i believe the only thing that keeps a society civil is faith in its system – that they are being fairly treated, and that their are ways to correct problems/issues (like contacting representatives & such) without resorting to violence.

    when people lose the faith, no longer feeling they are treated fairly or that there is any route to correct it peacefully, the game changes significantly.

    this administration came to power on “hope”, but it is killing it for many.  if a large enough majority losses all hope, things might be getting ugly in the US.

  • blue collar hoosier

    nixon the “health reformer”, and teddt its opponent?

    wow…  never woulda guessed it!

  • mortuus lark

    I think this thread is not about Iran and the failure of the Iranian revolution.

  • blue collar hoosier

    twain said some good stuff.  i like “theres lies, damned lies, and statistics”

  • mortuus lark

    The problem here is that this is a rogue state with thousands of nuclear arms that if a revolution happen they could make its way to Al Qaeda.

  • stodghie

    m lark, please get some help. clearly your thinking has ceased to exist. >:o

  • Retired

    One thing that we have learned from Obama is that the fact of the matter is that the American people are just to stupid to act in their own interest.  That is why the intellectually-qualified elite political cadres have been empowered by the masses to act in our name a do what is in our best interests, even if we don’t want it.
    In his campaign for President, Obama promised us to give us what we needed, not what we wanted.  What we need is government-controlled healthcare and global residistribution of wealth from American and Western Europe to the rest of the world.
    This harsh medicine may have to be forced upon us, which is why Obama promised to establish a civilian national security force that was as well-armed as the military.  That way, if Obama’s actions in the interest of the masses are unconstitutional, the civilian force can engage and defeat our military forces if they try to defend the Constitution.
    So, as mortuss lark says, get over it.  Obama is in power now, and he will rule us in the enlightened, but not necessarily benevolent, manner that he sees fit.

  • oowawa

    Mitch McConnell said: “The American people are quite angry to have this jammed down their throats.”

    Docelder says: “The truth is nobody knew exactly what was in the thing. It got to be over 2000 pages of mystery meat.”

    Today, a big news item is “Pediatricians Call for a Choke Proof Hot Dog,” since kids choke on hot dogs more than anything else.

    Bronwyn Harbor notes that “It seems evident that the “cult of personality” and The One simply want to attach themselves to a historic piece of legislation.”  In other words, Obama is “hot dogging” for his personal glorification.

    Clearly, what we have here, is an attempt to ram a Hot Dog Mystery Meat O-Whole Health Bill down a choking public’s throat.

  • stodghie

    m lark, be quiet.

  • stodghie

    m lark, look at the bottom of your cage. it is dirty and needs cleaning. uggg!

  • Guest

    Mr. Obama has no one to tell him emphatically that Americans do not want this legislation, and instead want Washington to focus on healing the economy and growing jobs.

    __________________________________________________
    He may or may not. The legislators certainly read polls. For the life of me, I don’t understand why elected official can’t figure out… that once elected, if they really worked on behalf of the people they represent ( us Americans) and actually accomplished good legislation for the country … they in fact would get reelected again and again.

    All that makes sense really is that politicians are motivated in our current system to achieve quick short term results at the expense of long term gains. And that our biggest problem/their biggest leverage still remains the uninformed voter. You know your seat is safe when 90% of voters can no longer think for themselves and stay strickly to one side of the party line regardless of the issue at hand.

  • candymarl

    mortuus lark was is it with you and Hillary? Did she diss you in high school or something? This can’t be Hillary’s plan. She is no longer a Senator so she can’t vote for or against it She can’t craft legislation. She’s not President therefore she can’t sign it into law.

    If this plan is so good then  the President  should have to use it as well as the House and Senate if they pass it.

    The House and Senate have a pretty good healthcare plan. None of them are complaining about that. I would tell you what Hillary said about that but why bother?

    What the American public is saying is that the economy and jobs are their main priority. If people have decent paying jobs they can afford their own healthcare.

    Any disagreement is now racist. That thing is so old it needs to be taken out with the trash. Good grief.

  • mortuus lark

    Guest said, the uninformed voter

    The uninformed voter about this legislation does not exist thanks to Andrew Joseph Stack III who took his plane and crashed it against the IRS building in Austin Texas.

    This legislation being proposed by Obama and the Democrats will effectively create thousands of Andrew Joseph Stacks from Four to Infinite because business people small and medium size entrepreneurs will not be able to cope with the requirements of the legislation.

    SO ONCE THIS LEGISLATION GO THROUGH – EVERY BUSINESS MAN – BAR THEMSELVES GETTING PSYCHOLOGICAL AND PSYCHIATRIC TREATMENT – WILL BECOME A POTENTIAL ANDREW JOSEPH STACK.

  • Hokma

    You’re a very sick person.

  • mortuus lark

    The only way to defeat this legislation is honoring the memory of Andrew Joseph Stack III and calling your Congressperson and Senator and asking them if they know who Andrew Joseph Stack III was and where, how and why did he died? And then informing the legislator that if the Health Care legislation goes through – every small and medium size business person out there would potentially become an Andrew Joseph Stack.

    That is the only way of defeating this legislation.

  • mortuus lark

    The only way to defeat this legislation is honoring the memory of Andrew Joseph Stack III and calling your Congressperson and Senator and asking them if they know who Andrew Joseph Stack III was and where, how and why did he died? And then informing the legislator that if the Health Care legislation goes through – every small and medium size business person out there would potentially become an Andrew Joseph Stack. 
     
    That is the only way of defeating this legislation.

    I am sure the building is still smoldering.

  • candymarl

    Dear mortuus lark,

    If it wasn’t for grandma and grandpa none of us would be here. That includes you. They want comfort in their old age? Fine.

    How about the trillions the government has borrowed from foreign governments? They gotta pay for that too. But I guess that’s okay.

  • mortuus lark

    The only way to defeat this legislation is honoring the memory of Andrew Joseph Stack III and calling your Congressperson and Senator and asking them if they know who Andrew Joseph Stack III was and where, how and why did he died? And then informing the legislator that if the Health Care legislation goes through – every small and medium size business person out there would potentially become an Andrew Joseph Stack.  
      
    That is the only way of defeating this legislation. 
     
    I am sure the building is still smoldering.

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Malarkey — your diatribes on Hillary are becoming a bore. If you want us to read your posts with any interest at all, you’ll have to create a better stance.

  • PortiaElizabeth

    As pointed out above, if people had jobs, they could afford their own health care plans. But if BO wants to control the people, he won’t want them to be independent of him and his programs. Soon enough, if we don’t do something we’ll all end up like the people in the movie, “Wall-e”.

  • mortuus lark

    Substitute “sick” for “prolific” in the above. Thank you.

  • mortuus lark

    Please substitute “sick” with “prolific” in the above to arrive at the correct description and characterization. 

    Thank you.

  • mortuus lark

    Please substitute “sick” with “prolific” in the above to arrive at the correct description and characterization.   
     
    Thank you.

  • mortuus lark

    Please substitute “sick” with “prolific” in the above to arrive at the correct description and characterization.    
      
    Thank you. ;)

  • mortuus lark

    Settling for the Possible: Is it true that the president of Toyota purchased a Hara Kiri set to take with him to the hearings?

  • mortuus lark

    Settling for the Possible: Is it true that the president of Toyota purchased a Hara Kiri set to take with him to the hearings?

  • HARP

    ML….Do you always act this stupidly?

  • mortuus lark

    Why is that stupid? Do you think that the legislation being proposed is not going to make entrepreneurs sick to their stomach and create in them conditions where coping will be extremely hard to do.

  • Docelder

    Teddy, the Viceroy of The People’s Republic of Massachusetts. He died thinking his life’s work to socialize this nation was on schedule.

  • karen for Clinton

    Nobel laureate he may be but so is Obama, Gore, and Carter and each has been proven to be not worthy of the award they were given.

  • Yttik

    I am shocked. Our Dem senators, good people, people who understand the importance of actually serving their constituents, are saying things like, we need to do this for people’s own good whether they like it or not! They’ve become like small kids with their fingers in their ears singing “lalalala.” They know we don’t like what’s being proposed but they think they know what’s best for us. The arrogance is staggering.

  • mortuus lark

    HARP, the problem with the Health Care reform from Hillary to Obama in the Democratic form is that the so call “Universal Health Care” falls on the backs of small and medium size busienss person – Entrepreneurs – who have made it clear that they can’t and will not be able to deal with all the accounting problems the legislation requires.

  • Peggy Sue

    I suspect if Obama and the Dems push this bill through reconciliation, it will be a nuclear option on their heads and destroy what little is left of the Democratic Party. 

    And it didn’t have to be this way.

    I listened to a replay of Anthony Weiner’s conversation with Joe Scarborough on Morning Joe [originally aired in August].  Weiner discussed the benefits of the single payer/public option plan.  He spoke clearly and directly.  He used no clever word play.  He made sense.  Weiner and Scarborough had a real conversation, even though the men are on opposite ends of the argument in terms of what reform should or should not look like.  No demonizing.  No namecalling.

    Had we had this sort of dialogue between parties and with voters, we all may have had a chance to see something valuable passed for the American public, taking a crippled system, revamping it for cost containment, quality and efficiency.  A win-win for everyone, both people and business. 

    But that’s not the way this has played out, and now Americans are convinced [rightly so] that the Dems are prepared to burn the house down for a lousy, unfocused and expensive piece of legislation that affects everyone’s personal day-to-day life.

    Will the Dems push to pass anything just for the sake of passing something?  Sadly, I think they will try exactly that. And Obama and his love-team will take a massive hit in November.  I’m beginning to wonder if this crew even cares.

    The American public recoils at the idea of “cramdowns” in any shape or form.  Krugman is out to lunch with his “let’s settle for anything” rationale. 

    Scrap the whole thing.  Get on to the matter of jobs, quickly.

  • Guest

    As comments become dramatically off-topic, perhaps the moderator?/editor can either delete or post comment guidelines to also appear directly where users would post their submissions. >:o As it applies to the stream of user contributions and interactions that more and more regulars are apparently finding a huge waste of time.

  • stodghie

    thanks guest, sorry if i was off topic there but i thought our dead bird needed to be spoken to if you will! ;)

  • mortuus lark

    Peggy Sue said, Get on to the matter of jobs, quickly.

    If the Health Care Reform bill that Obama and the Dems (a la Hillary Clinton concept) passes it will destroy the American entrepreneurship culture we hardly still have. It will be history. Entrepreneurs – and that is why Hillary couldn’t pass her plan in 1995 – know that the accounting issues plus the administration and personnel issues of the legislation will put them out of business – even if for no other reason that it simply is too complicated and throws them out of focus – that is to get their businesses up and going.

    The only way for UNiversal health insurance to go forward was the way John McCain proposed it.

  • Olivia1998

    PartiaElizabeth….your right we need to do something but I don’t thik flying a plan into buildings or shooting follow professors if you don’t get what you want is the answer.   We need to hit the streets, show them we mean business like last summer and fall.

  • mountainaires

    That sounds like a THREAT; I wouldn’t recommend anyone engage in such stupid behavior unless you want the FBI knocking at your door. 

  • AnnieCarmel

    Dead birds need to be buried and ignored after that.

  • HARP

    Obama wants CONTROL. If you think he gives a shit about your health, I`ve got a bridge to sell you chump.

  • jbjd

    “ls the “cult of personality” in such a tight circle around Obama that none of them realizes that their stubborn pressure to pass health care is alienating more and more voters, who will punish Democrats in November?”

    BH, how else but “cult” descibes that Paul K. knew BO was a sham when he – PK – supported HRC but, once the nomination was stolen from her, suddenly discovered, BO is the ‘one’ (until recently when he – PK – appears to be rediscovering he – BO – never was the one…).  But I think different motives are at work here.  BO needs to push a health care (scratch) insurance (scratch) wish list bill to pay back the people who helped to shove him into office and are buying his cooperation.  Congress is fighting for the scraps, after he takes his cut; and they are gambling, these scraps will be enough to offset the loss of their federal jobs.  (Maybe they will become paid lobbyists, for the health care (scratch) insurance (scratch) advertising industry.

  • mortuus lark

    I don’t know where you see any threat but I guess your bias blinds you.

  • stodghie

    sounds good to me annie! where’s the shovel? :-D

    this is a joke foks!

  • donjo

    Most people want health care reform.  They just don’t want this pathetic attempt.  The system is already in place but the fools in congress are too stupid to simply extend Medicare and correct its problems.  This could easily be paid for by getting rid of the tax break for the rich.  And maybe a couple hundred zillion wasted on the military and 2 needless wars.

  • mortuus lark

    HARP you are being disingenuous. Health Care reform is a perenial issue. Hillary tried it in 1994-95 and what is being proposed now is something very similar – but it is exactly what Hillary proposed during the elections of 2008. It is a Universal plan that lands on the back of small and medium size businesses because they are the ones that must come up with the money and the administrative system to pay it.

  • PortiaElizabeth

    Olivia — agreed!

  • Docelder

    Sure, just extend medicare down to age 40 for those who want in on it. Make those receiving it now pass some reasonable means testing and charge a reasonable non-profit rate for those who are on it and have the ability to pay going rates for it. Encourage generic drugs and yes, quit policing the wrld for free. If the world wants a police force, then they can pay for it. Otherwise we have our own problems to deal with right here at home.

  • lorac

    ls the “cult of personality” in such a tight circle around Obama that none of them realizes that their stubborn pressure to pass health care is alienating more and more voters, who will punish Democrats in November?

    I think there probably is a bubble around Obama in terms of variety of voices, but he says he reads articles and blog posts online every day, so you would think he would come across a poll every once in a while.  But then again, if his lips are moving, he’s probably lying, so maybe he doesn’t really read much.  Takes a little work, after all.

    Great essay, BH.

  • mortuus lark

    We can sale the Yosemite National Park to Japan and pay for it that way too.

  • Docelder

    Just remember the Iraq war was going to pay for itself as well… just from Iraq oil sales… right.

  • mortuus lark

    When the Plan calls for Universal coverage, it says that businesses out there must cover all their employees. Essentially all businesses must cover their employees. Businesses can’t do that. A lot of businesses will simply shot down.

  • mortuus lark

    All of those are very good points.

  • mortuus lark

    But you just have to remember too – and I remember it as if it was yesterday – with the cheers and the gun ho attitude that over 90 percent of Americans pushed for that war and were exhillarating extatic about it and full of patriotism and playing war music. The country was supper exited about invading Iraq.

  • TeakWoodKite

    Mort, stuff a sock in it.

  • lorac

    You are just using the rehash strategy.  After Obama stole the primary, they gave all the bots the instructions to rotate 180 degrees and start saying that Hillary and Obama were practically twins so we should vote for him in the primary.  Now you guys are all out saying the health care proposed is the same.  You guys are so transparent.

  • mortuus lark

    Brownwyn’s Obama’s health reform plan is Hillary’s plan. And you said you were so invested in her plan and now just because it is in the tongue of Obama you refuse to kiss it.   
      
    Face it Brownwy’s Obama will pass Hillary’s health reform plan exactly as Hillary wanted it to be.  
      
    And yes lets cheer Obama for passing the Hillary Health Care Reform legislation we so desperately need. It will only ruin the whole American economy, but create thousands of jobs for illegal aliens now in kindergarten. 
     
    Give thanks to Hillary for that.

  • mortuus lark

    I am not you guys, lorac, I am mortuus lark. What I said is what it is. And stop with the Hillary adoration. Hillary is Obama’s SOS and sits to his right in HIS Cabinet. And Hillary via Ted Kennedy gave Obama what he knows about Health Care reform.

    And more so, Obama and Bill Clinton negotiated Hillary’s surrender at the Convention. So stop with the Hillary love.

  • mortuus lark

    Why is what you said the truth? Why? Because Ted Kennedy convinced Hillary to adopt Obama as HER PROTEGE and she did. And she taught Obama all that he knows about health care and how to SOCIALIZE THE SYSTEM.

    All of what you are seeing now is the product of Hillary Clinton under the careful supervision of Ted Kennedy.

  • mortuus lark

    Why is what you said the truth? Why? Because Ted Kennedy convinced Hillary to adopt Obama as HER PROTEGE and she did.

    And she taught Obama all that he knows about health care and how to SOCIALIZE THE SYSTEM. 
     
    All of what you are seeing now is the product of Hillary Clinton under the careful supervision of Ted Kennedy.

  • mortuus lark

    Why is what you said the truth? Why? Because Ted Kennedy convinced Hillary to adopt Obama as HER PROTEGE and she did.  
     
    And she taught Obama all that he knows about health care and how to SOCIALIZE THE SYSTEM.  
      
    All of what BROWNY’S HARBOR IS seeing now is the product of Hillary Clinton under the careful supervision of Ted Kennedy.

  • prime obot

    Bronwyn, I’m sorry, this is an exceptionally foolish, indeed a fully incoherent, piece of writing. 

    You say the American people don’t want this legislation, but instead want Obama to focus on healing the economy and creating jobs. Do you have any awareness of how important reforming health care as soon as possible is to healing the economy and creating jobs (by reducing the deficit)? And do you realize that, while it is true that over 50% of Americans are now “against” the current bill, well over 50% still favor a public option, the far more “socialist” idea that still might sneak back into the legislation? And when you talk about how Krugman in 2008 was singing the praises of Hillary’s proposal, do you even understand that at the time, her health care plan was even more nationalized/”socialist” than today’s most likely plan? And that therefore the identical forces would now be arrayed against her if she had won the election? And if you take Krugman seriously at all, why don’t you understand that what he is saying is absolutely true: that we MUST have the still-major reforms that remain in the Senate bill, and must have them now, in order to have a pltform to build off and develop in reforming our health care system in the years to come? 

    Arguing that this whole bill should just crash and burn is tantamount to arguing for the end of American prosperity.

  • mortuus lark

    You are a moron prime obot because the health care reform a la Hillary which is what Obama is pushing will ruin “American prosperity” because of two things: 1 you will not be able to start a business because all businesses will be required to provide health insurance to their employees – that puts you out of business. But 2 – chances are that a whole lot maybe 25 percent of current small businesses will shut down due to the burden of the health care legislation. Capisce? No I know. It is impossible for you to capisce.

  • arabella trefoil

    Bronwyn, thanks for your excellent post. You are tireless in your appeals to common sense. It is fatiguing to deal with a government that doesn’t listen to its citizen. That is, on a good day it’s fatiguing.

    Most of the time it’s demoralizing and depressing. Thank goodness for NQ and its fine writers. We cannot just give up and sit on our hands. Americans do not want this plan.

    Keep fighting the good fight!

  • mortuus lark

    Y colorin colorado, este cuento se ha acabado.

  • Required Reading

    Ditto, BH and thanks for expressing that AT; I appreciate not only the post, but also the links; unlike the empty blather of the some of the spoilers who come on here, you provide citations and substantive arguments for your point of view.  Thanks and thank God for the regulars and well-meaning guests on NQ.

  • mortuus lark

    Y colorin colorado, este cuento se ha acabado.

  • Steel Magnolia

    Is that you, Donna Brazilla?

  • morris1030

    oowawa,

    I totally agree with your take on Obama’s inability to communicate the details in this bill, or that he can understand it himself.

    There is no leadership,just planned leaks,confusion,and an amateurish vagueness that is now  framing the Obama presidency.

    Surrounded by his Chicago group Obama has remained in a bubble of denial and ham handed political stratey which has long backfired.

    I don’t believe he will correct his course and change the guard.

  • Docelder

    I would have less problems with a stand alone expansion of medicare. What I dislike is the gimme’s fro insurers, hospital corps and pharmas. Seriously, we ought to be keeping the jobs at home and exporting out long term care and elective surgeries to places like Mexico instead of the other way around. Instead we are doing the long term careand elective care here were it is expensive and we are sending our jobs to places where wages are low. We have it backward.

  • Babs

    Also, didn’t I read where over 100 new government agencies would have to be created to oversee this federal government takeover? Oh, good, 100 new agencies filled with government workers not on the same plan, more public sector jobs versus the private sector jobs which create wealth instead of sucking up tax dollars. A progessive dream.

  • Geoff Kucera

    Yes, the House version of the health care bill was nothing more than a major payoff to the public service employee unions whose ranks would be vastly expanded.

    What baffles me is that personal and profession acquaintances, who self-style themselves as “progressives” and who feel internet and telephone traffic data pattern analysis in which actual information content of the traffic is impossible to ascertain is a gross unconstitutional violation of their privacy, yet have no problems whatsoever with establishing a single payer health plan administered by the federal government in which their most personal of data would be made freely available and shared across a myriad of federal agencies and bureaucracies.

  • Docelder

    I watched a couple nights of the Olympics. The commercials on the Olympics was largely GE and specifically healthymagination ads. I don’t know who dreamed up that run-on word, or why they feel the need to spend good money trying to brand it. But, there it is. I guess when you have a partnersip with government, then you have money to burn. It isn’t your own money, so why not? But I almost see these demoncrats thinking we just need more ads. We just need more talk, more abc news infomercials on health care. They don’t have a desire to make the end product better. They just think they can sell crap sandwiches and if they are sold right, then people will like them better than peanut butter.

  • elaine

    I really think Retired nailed the entire agenda on this thread & I also agree with mortuss lark that ObamaCare is HillaryCare.

  • TeakWoodKite

    PBot, you have it ass backward.

    Arguing that this whole bill should just crash and burn is tantamount to arguing for the end of American prosperity.

    Many in this country have concluded that those who argue for this monstorsity, borne of callous indifference that is BO, are blinded by a lack of critical thinking skills and devoid of simple powers of observation.

  • EllenD

    Interesting bit of history I never heard before. I also believe this is a state’s right.

  • mortuus lark

    If this Universal Health Care reform goes through, the lucky ones will be those who leave the U.S. sooner rather than later. For business people the legislation will drive them to desperation – a la Andrew Joseph Stack III. They will self-destruct by shutting their businesses down plus other drastic protest measures. The depression that would follow would make the 1920′s depression a spec of history. The country will come to a stand still. The value of your house will be between zero and 10 thousand, if you are lucky to get that much. The middle class would shrink to less than 50 percent of what we have now.

  • glennmcgahee

    If you think Insurance Companies are powerful now, just wait until you are fined or threatened with jailtime if you don’t pay them your premium. Just like Florida after the hurricanes, the insurance companies pulled out, refusing to cover our property because they had to pay out this time. What happened? Our state had to create its own Goverment – run property insurance (Citizen’s Insurance ). Almost everybody has to use them. If you live along the coast, you are uninsurable except for Citizens.  If we had Obamacare and H1N1 became widespread, don’t believe for one moment the private insurers would cover us. They would declare they couldn’t and the gov’t would have to cover the costs. They are not going to allow their profit margin to go down. In this case, we’d be paying for this health crisis 2 times. Once to the private insurers who we’ve been forced to pay for coverage and again through taxes when we have to make up for their losses. Why can’t we cut out the middleman?  Isn’t this similar to our war effort? We hire private contractors to do the work of our regular “volunteer” army at ridiculous costs to the American taxpayer. Some are making a large fortune at  a steep price to the rest of us.

  • Docelder

    Yes, we can no longer trust the media already and this administration is destroying the trust for the office of the President itself. The President just plain lies as a matter of course now, and without any hesitation or consequence. It is really disheartening.

  • Docelder

    I am not for terrorism either. But, I think it will take individual states declaring and enforcing their states rights. The administration is tone deaf to an extent that we haven’t seen before. How do you reason with somebody that refuses to listen to you?

  • No Longer Banned in Beantown

    I briefly watched Tim Pawlenty talk about making incremental changes to Health Care on BiPartisan issues. Make incremental changes, and see how well they work before making more changes.

    Wow, I feel like there needs to be a commercial like the “MS Windows 7″ commercials. One where people like me say “Incremental Health Care Change was my idea. Thank you BiPartisan Congress”.

  • I’m a Linda too

    I’m afraid, yes, it will pass.  Because the Dem’s have shown they care not about the people, but their party and their special interest donors.  They have enough seats that don’t have to fear their re-election prospects.

    We, the people, are screwed.

    What will pass it opposite of what they promised.  But what will be there is subsidized insurance for the ones who don’t report income, paid off the books, cash or is illegal.  Costs will rise, rates will rise, drug prices are rising and our taxes will go up.  The middle gets nothing but higher costs, rates, prices and taxes.

  • FLDemFem

    Well, Doc, when I refused to listen to my parents as a young child, I was spanked. And someone should remind the first “post-racial” president that the last time there was a big brouhaha over States’ Rights, we called it the Civil War. Does he really want to precipitate another one, hopefully less bloody, over his stubborn refusal to listen to the people he works for? I think he believes that he has no obligation to listen because he was elected, and now he gets to do what he wants to do. He doesn’t seem to understand that he works for us, not the other way around. Now if only someone in Congress would grow a pair and start impeachment proceedings…sigh.

  • My other site

    They are not going to give up passing healthcare because it would be “historic” a “historic first” for Obie.  They didn’t care about the voice of the people when they pushed him onto the ballot and they won’t ever care about it.  

    That’s the trouble with everyone in D. C.  They are delusional, crazed by delusions of their own grandeur, they figure the people are so stupid they can be led around like sheep.  They have big surprise coming.

  • My other site

    mortuus lark:  anywhere else a person could move in the first world already has Universal Health Care–and guess what?  They’re in better economic shape than the U. S.  Obamacare is bad; universal healthcare is good.  

    Right now we pay a boatload of taxes and get nothing for it–our money pays for lots of people who don’t work or are in this country working illegally to have health benefits.  Everything in the U. S. is like that.  We need to get a system where tax dollars help the people who work to pay them and if a person receives money or food stamps or whatever from the government they have to work for the government if they can’t get some other job.

  • My other site

    Docelder:  you’re exactly right about the more talk stuff.  Bad thing is, Bush had the exact same idea.  Manchurian Candidates have to rely on propaganda.

  • My other site

    True.  But we can’t stop policing (bullying) the world because then our corporate gurus couldn’t get all the cheap stuff they need to make record profits.  And where would the military/industrial complex be?  They’d have to learn to make love not war.  Don’t see that happening.

  • My other site

    They caught this disease from BushCo.  ”We know what’s best for Americans.”  They’re all just drunk with illegitimate power.

  • foxyladi14

    them congress critters will get reminded who the boss is