Request For “Why Do They Hate Us?”

Gee whiz, RRRA, I actually woke up in a fairly good mood today.  I’ve done my usual taking care of the critters and getting lots of tail wagging thank yous from the dogs and leg-rubbing thank your from the cats (well, except from the boss cat for whom showing affection is a demeaning character trait).  My significant other, their personal chef, has not done anything too annoying today, yet.  

And now I read this to be reminded again of where exactly I stand in the human world.  We need to be reminded all the time, but it does cause pain and sadness.

RRRA, wow, excellent essay, including your previous letter to the writer you highlight.

And Queen Bee Pelosi has to go.  We have too few female representatives in government for them to be women who are blind to sexism and misoygyny.  Of course, I’m sure it’s difficult for the “seeing” to be elected, because they’d be attacked by all the sexists (female and male), with such words as “feminist!”, which of course is a bad word now.

Oh, and of course, feminist=racist, since the last election….

Hmmm…. I use “of course” a lot lol

Sorry, Diana!  Blame Cindy!    JUST kidding Cindy!

It is hard to read, I know – it is hard that we are STILL so devalued.

And it is hard, as SFIndie pointed out over at my blog, that there has been hardly a mention that this is Women’s History Month…

lorac, I could not agree more abt Pelosi.  I still canoot believe a woman in her place would claim there was NO sexism during the 2008 Primary.  What world was SHE living in during that time?  Not only was it evident in the Primary, it was evident in the General Election, and the alleged “women’s party,” the Dems, were some of the worst offenders. 

LOL abt the “of course” – you feel free, anytime! 

Rev. Amy-Thank you so much for reprinting this crucial post!
 I fervently agree with your added thoughts, and the fact that we, women, have got to stop feeding into this cycle.

Like every other critical issue in life, education is the key to understanding and reversing the tragic trends.
 But, our society, for one thing, does not spend the resources on Women’s History Month that they do on Black History Month.
Why is that? Here is my opinion about it:
1)Women’s issues have been thrown-in, and I would say combined with, race issues.  We have a black President, so that should satisfy the womenfolk, right? I actually HEARD that argument used last year at an Internat’l Women’s Day program.
 Also, about 15 years ago, I attended a national women’s convention in Austin, Texas. Big names such as  Gloria Steinem, Angela Davis, and others were on the program.. But all of them turned the  focus of this women’s rights convention to ”women of color” only!  Race HAD to be at the center of this women’s rights convention for it to be taken seriously…….To give it street cred. 
 I also believe that men in positions of power, when think about feminists and women’s rights, think of white women. And they think white women have always had it better than minorities, so end of discussion. I had this very argument hurled at me by a very educated, liberal  white male friend in ’08.  And the longer I live, the clearer this profound fact becomes to me.

Well that’s my two cents worth ( it’d be “ 5 cents worth” if I were male, right? or something close to it!)
Thank you again, Rev. Amy, for being our voice!

LOL, Rev Amy!

Wonderful comment, Cindy!

“But all of them turned the  focus of this women’s rights convention to ”women of color” only!  Race HAD to be at the center of this women’s rights convention for it to be taken seriously…….To give it street cred.”

The battle-lines were deliberately confused.  In the wars for social justice, there is one battle-line for racial equality, and another battle-line for gender equality.  These battle lines sometimes criss-cross and get confused.  In this case, it looks like the gender equality battle line was co-opted by the racial equality battle line.  The study of battle-lines and how they interact would be worthy of a university course, if not a whole department.  If you commandeer another war’s battle line, you can effectively put another country’s army at your disposal.

Thanks for the great comment, Cindy, and you are welcome!

I cannot believe someone said that the woman thing is all taken care of since we have a “black president.”  What the hell kind of logic is THAT??  How incredibly dismissive of women in general.  It is subsuming us into another category altogether, diminishing us even further!

White women still struggle in this society, too.  We still get raped, still get paid crap compared to men, still get passed over for promotions, still get shoved aside for the less experienced, younger man (see the 2008 Primary), and on and on. 

Yes, there are issues facing women of color, and htose need to be addressed, but it is insulting to say the LEAST that we should be happy because we have a black president!  Wow…

Hillary Clinton agrees with you on the education thing.  She says that ALL the time.  No doubt, she’ll be saying it again on March 8th for International Women’s Day. 

Great comment!

And indeed, this is what happened in the last election.  The gender-justice battle-line was co-opted by the racial-equality battle-line:

I have found that minorities rarely believe that white women have had anything but a cakewalk through life.  Color doesn’t matter when you are raising children alone, struggling on women’s wages, standing up to misogynists, etc.  Then by the time the children are able to stand on their own, you’re still working and when you should be reaching the cumulative effect of growth, experience, and wisdom, you’re faced with age discrimination.  The saying goes:  “There’s nothing worth less in our society than an old man unless it’s an old woman.”  That’s the other hurdle that has to be eliminated along with misogyny.  I’m not having a pity party here but I am mad as hell at what we’ve put up with.  The 60′s were definitely a lost opportunity for women…an era which was not kind to us but mostly filled with BS and illusions of freedom.

Rev. Amy’s thesis is flawed. It’s not a matter of hate, as much as a matter of women being easier prey. When a lion hunts down a baby zebra, is it because it hates young prey, or is it because it is easy prey. Also, if the militia in Congo kills off the men in a village and rapes the women, does that mean they hate the women they rape more than the men they just killed off?

oowawa—brilliantly stated. Thank you!
And I think the lines became blurred during Civil Rts. Act/era, do you?  I’ve given my Stokely Carmichael slurred quote about the women’s position being “prone” so many times on NoQ, but he  captured the essence of the philosophy during that time (and present-day, too, I’m afraid)

C’mon, Nancy Pelosi represents, probably the most progressive district in the entire nation. If there were sexism in 2008, I am sure she’d be the very first to see it.

Of course Brownworth conveniently forgets to mention that men kill men in far greater numbers. Societies are set up primarily with laws to protect women. If there’s anything Brownworth should rail against, it’s nature, not society in general.

Thank you for the red herring, Freedom Fighter.  As usual, the stupidity of your fake persona is dazzling.  I give you an “A” for the course in Blog Disruption 1-A.

Thanks, Rev. Amy for the post.  I remember reading it way back when but had forgotten how powerful it was (and is).  I do not comment often, in fact, I never comment.  But, this post has made me want to say some things.  First, as a senior citizen male who was raised by a single mother (pen-writing court reporter) way before it was cool, I have seen first hand the second class citizenship afforded women, back then and now.  Second, I am proud that my profession (legal) has moved more quickly and further toward equality than any other of which I am aware, but there still is a long way to go.  Third (and this is where I demonstrate that I should not be allowed to post), I always have believed that civil rights was born of fear– not moral values.  Back in the 1960s, down deep inside, white men in power were physically afraid of black men and what they feared black men would do.  At no time in our history have men in power been physically afraid of women.  Women’s equality always has been more of an academic debate.  Remember the ERA debate?  It was all about economics and traditional values and history.  I don’t recall a single block in a single city that was set on fire by a bunch of women who wanted the ERA.  By no means would I advocate violence as a means to achieve equality, but I do think that without violence and the threat of violence, civil rights never would have made it into our laws.

Annie, I doubt you can dispute the fact that of any group, white women have it the easiest in life. You find men of all races, and women of all races, except white women, working the least desirable jobs in society.

Spot on, oowawa  – I could not BELIEVE when Ms. Magazine did that.  Perhaps it is a new definition of “feminism” in which a man who has consistently acted in a sexist manner is considered a “feminist.”  Howeve rthey are choosing to define it, though, it is certainly not MY idea of “feminism.”

I call women who act like that “Toto’ (tool of the opressor). “Freedom fighter” (for whose freedom, I wonder?) if you can’t see it, we have nothing more to discuss.

Annie, that’s exactly what JEremiah Wright preached in his church abt Hillary.  That she (and apparently, all white women) haven’t the FOGGIEST what it is like to be treated disparately, to have to be aware at every moment when one is out in public lest something dire happen, or that we don’t struggle, etc., etc. 

Meanwhile, The One he was glorifying as growing up poor, blah, blah blah, had a pretty cushy life.  Talk abt revisionist history. 

Anyway – yes – you are exactly right.

So men don’t fear women?  In my personal world, women are very powerful–to be respected and feared.  Besides their intelligence, there is this:

Honestlawyer, thank you for posting your comment – feel free to post ANYTIME.  I appreciate your experience, and observations. 

And yes, being a single mother back then was certainly no “cakewalk” (to borrow Annie’s term).  It isn’t NOW – even with the glorification of it.  Your mother must have been a strong woman, Honestlawyer!

And you are right – your field does have a large number of women in it, which is a good thing indeed.  But in my experience, even fields that have more women in them (like mine), the treatment is often disparate still. So far yet to go, I’m afraid…

Interesting observation abt the violence.  I think you are right that women still are afraid to really push for what we want, lest we make men mad at us, or – gasp – be called a bitch.  We still have so much internalized sexism, that it is hard to really achieve change.

Like Cindy said above, education is key – and truly believing we are as good as our male counterparts.

Thanks for the comment!

I think his message is clear. White women have it much easier than any other group. That’s why African American women hate white women so much. They have to put up with all the negatives but with no positive benefits.

Okay, “feared” is not the right word.  Rather than repost and rewrite I’ll just edit: feared=treated with the co-equal status they deserve, because we love them and they gave birth to us.

oowawa—that (Ms. Mag) is the definitive act for what you’ve stated.

Pelosi is in the make believe land with Reid where the US Income Tax is voluntary. A land where anything is true just by saying it.

My question is, what does that say about the people that vote for them?

oowawa—I’d not only give him an A for the course,  I’d go ahead and graduate him and send him on to grad school “in a galaxy far, far away”…………….

Nobody can listen to Percy Sledge and want to burn anything.  I just want to hug somebody.

 The 60′s were definitely a lost opportunity for women…an era which was not kind to us but mostly filled with BS and illusions of freedom.

Annie—Absolutely!

She doesn’t see it because if you are the type of “progressive” that you are most likely, you like your females to tow the “progressive” like, which can sometimes make them hate women with wombs (such as Sarah Palin) or women with ideas that aren’t totally “progressive.”  So, you see, there are only a small number of females that fit the “progressive” mold.  They must drink lattes, or in Nancy’s case, lots of booze on her very expensive flights to an from Washington.  And they MUST hate women like those I mentioned above, especially if they choose not to have abortions if their children aren’t going to become perfect, pampered, progressives.

“There’s nothing worth less in our society than an old man unless it’s an old woman.”

Not to me!  Here’s to the Red Hatters:

She doesn’t see it because if you are the type of “progressive” that you are most likely, you like your females to tow the “progressive” line, which can sometimes make them hate women with wombs (such as Sarah Palin) or women with ideas that aren’t totally “progressive.”  So, you see, there are only a small number of females that fit the “progressive” mold.  They must drink lattes, or in Nancy’s case, lots of booze on her very expensive flights to an from Washington; and especially they have to drink Kool Aid so that when a primary candidate takes the stage to Jay Z’s “99 Problems and a Bitch Ain’t One” or when that candidate always brushes a certain finger across his cheek when he talks about the more capable female candidate. this “progressive” woman who is important in the DNC pretends not to see, or doesn’t see, because she is having a “progressive” crush on her American Idol.   And they MUST hate women like those I mentioned above, especially if they choose not to have abortions if their children aren’t going to become perfect, pampered, progressives.

RRRA,

I remember that as a new teacher clear back in the 70′s, teachers’ pay was abysmal.  (I know; some say it’s not that great now, though it is better.)  One of the arguments was that the reason teachers’ pay was so low was that there were not enough men in the profession.  So there was a push to get more men in the classroom.  

I think it would be interesting to study how salaries rise as a profession becomes more equally filled by males as by females.

For some reason in this country, if it’s a “woman’s job,” it’s not worth so much.  So, of course, social workers, teachers, administrative assistants (and I’ve seen some of them keep company division directors from falling on their assess by being way better than their bosses, who earned more than four times as much) all earn less.  I feel we need equal pay for equal work, but we need to redefine the value of certain jobs, too.

I would love to see, for example, an administrative assistants’ union, a sales associates union—something along that line that could bring that idea to light.  

But then, of course, it would be joined by only those little “sweeties” and people like Obama would brush them aside.

oowawa- I LOVE that!

Slight digression – but guess who had his photo taken in the Situaiton Room, along with Beyonce?  Yep – Jay Z and a bunch of other people were in the Situation Room – Jay Z was at the head of the table underneath the seal.

Doesn’t THAT just make you feel all warm and fuzzy abt Obama and who he lets into that room??  Un-freaking-believable.

Diana—Sing it, sister!

Cindy, I think the strongest argument is to look to the Constitution and demand equal treatment as a “person”.  At least you showed up and contributed–good effort.

Well said – yes, that whole line of “bring more men in to raise salaries” still rings true today.  Not to mention the whole “but he has a family to support, so we HAVE to pay HIM more,” etc., etc. 

Absolutely, jobs that are considered “feminine” pay much less – when you think of what those jobs are, they are pretty damn inportant, like teaching our youth, healing the sick, and all, yet, they are so devalued because of the gender attached to them.  Still.

And then there is the violence against women that we see every day in this country, on the big stage, too, with the treatent of Hillary and Sarah condoned by the Dems and the MSM.  Shocking.  Truly.

FF=SP

LOL–I guess my point in posting that is this (and I’m still thinking about it): women have a great deal of power–as mothers, sisters, wives, friends, lovers.  But somehow that hasn’t translated into political power the way it should have.  There is also an undeniable resentment among many men about their weakness before the power women have over them.  Well, at least we’ve still got the boys’ clubs where there are no wimmin allowed . . . And in fact, it shouldn’t be even a topic of discussion that men have to allow women equal opportunities.  It shouldn’t be the right of men to allow women anything!  Who do we think we are! (slapping myself in the face).  We’re all homo sapiens . . . Except for Freedom Fighter . . .

My mother and my grandmother worked the fields along with many, many Hispanic male workers when they first came to America.  It was back-breaking labor.  My family is Caucasian.  

When the Irish were looked down one–hey, even Emerson was a bit racist in that regard–those women were the washerwomen, the maids, the factory workers.  Read Life in the Iron Mills by Rebecca Hardin Davis.

I am going to get blasted for saying this, but it has to be said to bring about a discussion.

The reason my mother’s daughters and my grandmother’s granddaughters are now living a middle class life is this.  While the male Hispanic migrant workers working along side my relatives  lived in the same shacks provided by the landowners, they kept them filthy, spent a large part of their money on food, drink and having a good time and sent the rest back to Mexico.  My relatives instead, kept the cabins clean, even fixed them up.  They spent hardly anything on what was not totally necessary and saved until they were able to buy some of those farms they worked on.

The Irish, the Italians, the Chinese–many other ethnic groups of women have done some pretty demeaning types of jobs.  The difference, perhaps, is that in many cases they had men who worked also and pooled their money with them until their group was able to rise.

I understand the whole concept about how it happened that AA males have in a large degree abandoned their role as head of the family, as bread winner, especially in the projects.  But when you find strong AA males, you see that their women also have it pretty good, too.  It’s true of the Hispanics also.  The ones where the males did not hold to that machismo crap and did respect their wives and children–you see that in those families, their women have it pretty good too.

So, the problem is that we have a lot of (and I’ll use an old term we used to use) male chauvinist pigs keeping some of the minority women down–you can call them pimps, if you want.  You can call them bros if you want.  I don’t care.  But the problem IS men in that culture.

And so it is especially, especially odious to me that Obama seems to like to fit into that culture as if he belongs to the bros of the world (at least when he thinks others aren’t really paying attention).

Read my response to your crap above!

Yes, oowawa–he just said that men were equal to animals.  But that is an insult to animals.  He needs to study some real animal behavior.  The lioness is pretty darn terrifying.  The alpha bitch of a wild dog pack is largely in control of the pack.  I know my 120 dog does not do something if his 95 pound sister is showing some teeth.  

And so, FF, it’s a pretty darned dysfunctional society then when the AA males don’t protect their females and children as I mentioned above.  It’s just easier to point out that white women have it so easy compared to AA women.

Yep Rev Amy–saw that–Jay Z at the head of the table, Beyonce at his right, and the whole posse gathered around.  Now that’s Change you can believe in!

LOL–Here’s a longer and even better video of the song, minus the commercials.  It brings tears to my eyes, and I’m an old man!

Diana, Freedom Fighter is a caricature.  He is not the dummy he pretends to be.  He is some other kind of dummy.  I have no idea what is behind that persona, if anything . . .

We need to get that “description” out there in general use, at least among females. “TOTO”, very apt, nice little doggie!

BTW, friends.  I do not respond to bots no matter how they try to provoke and you don’t need to either.  I have in the past but lately it has become all too clear that they can easily hi-jack a thread…as one was yesterday.  So brain dead and boring that I didn’t even bother to post.  If you co-operate with them, since this blog does not censor, it will be destroyed due to sheer bot bullying.  So I’m practicing self censorship…no interaction with bots.

Let’s see if my comments will also garner an A in blog disruption.

I wish I could recall this women’s name (apologies) she was a president of N.O.W. & in her acceptance speech she showed grisley photos of natzi female guards clubbing infants & children to death…she went on to caution as woman continue their struggle for full equality they remain mindful to never fall into the barbaric trap of mimicing the very worse behaviors of men.

Great strides are being made in genetic engineering, it’s not too difficult to imagine tweeking a gene or 2 & engineering females who have equal or greater physical strength than males. Would that make for a more peaceful or just world?

I know a “successful” high school wrestling coach who refused to have women try out for his team. Eventually the coaching position was taken away from him and he resigned his teaching position. He then trtied to get a coaching postion at a Catholic School and might have succeeded if he hadn’t told the administrators in his interviews that women couldn’t be on his team because they were too used to being on their backs.

Well, Annie, the general principle you describe is good, but there are “bots” and there are “apparent bots” and there are “who-knows-what-the-hell-they-are.”   If somebody is being sincere, I have no problem with that, even if I disagree with them.  If somebody is gaming the blog, that’s another story . . .

Diana,
I understand what you’re saying…. and you’re so right about Obama. That’s what made the Ms. mag thing so insidious.
I look at the American white woman historically, as well as currently. And historically, it is a heartbreaking tale to say the least.
Read, if you haven’t ( but I’m sure you have!) the stories of Susan Anthony and Eliz. Stanton and other white female abolitionists who spent 30 years of hard work and lots of money fighting for the rights of blacks…only to have that thrown in their faces by Frederick Douglass, for one, when it came time for women’s rights. Black men were allowed to vote 50 years before women of any race, in this country, as you know. What a disgusting turncoat Douglass  turned out to be, but you wouldn’t know that reading about him now.
And of course, present day women……. the statistics are staggering  as noted by Ms. Brownworth in her article. I worked with women’s health issues groups for years in the 1980′s, and most of the women involved were white. Their stories of being denied jobs, being raped, being beaten, being left by their spouses, etc, were heartbreaking….not to mention they couldn’t earn the decent pay that men at the same job were making. I couldn’t believe, back then, that we were living in the 20th century!

When I started in teaching there were no unions, but each school had a committee to negotiate salary schedules. Even with the salary schedule in place, men would be given additional money somehow, for coaching, for being veterans, for being married with family to support, etc.
I won’t even tell you about my experiences in taking administration courses where I was the only female in the classes or my attempts later to get an administrative position. Was not good.

oowawa— You’re a breath of fresh air, as always.
No wait, I’ll take it further……

You are the Stuckey’s on life’s highway!

Yep, elaine, you get an “A” also.  Congratulations!  Unfortunately, I’m not the teacher.  I’m just a meek bunny who doesn’t get around much anymore . . .

Diana— post script to my reply below:
 I appreciated reading about your own family. Fascinating!
I know you’re proud of your heritage and should be.

Diana—-oops! It’s above!

LOL Cindy–Thank You–I feel like I’m a gob of meaningless insect stuck to someone’s tire on life’s highway . . .

Well maybe the Supreme Court who finds that corporations are persons would help us out so that we could be considered persons. Equal Rights Amendment, not so much. 

AC–Thanks! And hope you’ve thawed out up there.

oowawa,

I know that about Freedom Fighter, of course,  But this is a topic that gets my blood boiling.  I know he’s not like P.O. or one our “Guests,” because he doesn’t respond–just puts up a stupid statement and lets it sit there.  His statements were good springboards for getting our feelings out.

“His statements were good springboards for getting our feelings out.”

Then maybe he’s . . . ME!  I always suspected I had ulterior motives . . .

Actually, I’m still trying to sort this all out.  Seems to me, you have a good point, Diana.

Thans oowawa, that’s the 1st A I’ve received in a very long time.

LOL Cindy–Thank You–I feel like I’m a gob of meaningless insect stuck to someone’s tire on life’s highway . . .

I know what you mean . . . I was a student long before this “grade inflation” thing kicked in . . . if you could get a “D,” you celebrated!  Credits are credits, after all . . .

Exactly, Diana.  I was a teen mother and worked from the time I was 17 (Civil Service /Army typist..and there were a lot of blacks employed where I worked too) to support my child; tried again with my husband after a separation and had another child which I also wound up supporting.  I never took welfare, never had government housing and my family helped by all pulling together until I was employed well enough (later managing medical offices) to live on our own.  Now this took a while because I handed over the majority of my pay to my mother for managing the home and caring for my children while I held down a job.  My extra money was saved toward becoming independent and my time in re-thinking my choices in partners.  I dated a lot but never made the same mistakes again…a hard lesson.  Of course I was lucky in that my family, like yours, didn’t indulge in drugs, alcohol and even in the early days of their marriage, during the depression in the south, when they lived in a two room shack they kept their basic living habits clean.  Because they had no money, they made almost everything necessary in life…Mother sewed (clothes, quilts, hemmed and embroidered flour sacks for dish towels and aprons).  Daddy made furniture by hand, peddled apples with her father until he could get a job with the RR. My mother never kept a dirty, unorganized house and neither have I…and I don’t have anyone do it for me either.  It’s a matter of pride and self-reliance.  It wasn’t until their late 40′s they considered themselves secure.  Mother never stopped using coupons, sewing, and living with a bit of frugality.  They never forgot the lessons of the depression.  Had they lived, the current state of our country would be a bitter pill to swallow…their retirement eaten away, any savings diminished.

[...] Here is the original post: Request For “Why Do They Hate Us?” : NO QUARTER [...]

The alpha bitch of the hyena pack runs the show. No that’s not a metaphore. I watch Discovery.

That Percy Sledge thing sent me into youtube for two hours of motown – 4 Tops, and the other side of the pond with Spencer Davis Group.

There’s no one who said it better than Hillary Clinton herself in her famous 1995 speech in China.  Women’s rights are human rights.  It doesn’t matter where we come from or our station in life.  It doesn’t matter what our race is, regardless of what FF would like us to focus on.  It doesn’t matter what our profession is whether we’re a lawyer a doctor, an Indian Chief.

Read Hillary’s speech again.  It’s not long but it sure is powerful.  And it says everything we need to know about women’s rights–here, everywhere, forever.

http://voxygen.net/classes/contemporary-public-address/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-speech/

Thanks for the article, Amy.

Yep, No Longer Banned in Beantown, I’ve been drifting off into videos also.  Everything breaks my heart nowadays.  It means so much more the second time around.  Or something like that . . .

1 in 6? 1 in 4? 1 in 3?

Haruhi-sama preserve us. If those statistics are accurate, it would serve us dudes right if women banded together in communes of some sort and went Lysistrata on us.

To misquote Jefferson, I tremble for my gender when I reflect that God is just.

******************************************************

Note: I used to be Ivory Bill Woodpecker, but now that NQ is using the same system as some blogs where I’m the Monster, I guess I’ll just be MftI here, too.

“I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”–Jefferson

Haruhi-sama=an anime character?

Ivory Bill Woodpecker–well, he’s not a stranger:

http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/04/everybody-stay-calm-open-thread/

Interesting stuff–hope you post some more on NQ. 

Okay, I’ve been hanging out on this thread too long.  Sayonara, everybody–sayonara Haruhi-sama!

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”–Jefferson 
 
Haruhi-sama=an anime character? 
 
Ivory Bill Woodpecker–well, he’s not a stranger: 
 
http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/10/04/everybody-stay-calm-open-thread/ 
 
Interesting stuff–hope you post some more on NQ.  
 
Okay, I’ve been hanging out on this thread too long.  Sayonara, everybody–sayonara Haruhi-sama!

Brodie and sowsear—yes! “Toto” is perfect!

Annie—-You are a remarkable woman!

Why do they hate us?  How about this?

“Speaking of children…..

…………..Today’s war in Afghanistan also has its My Lai massacres. It has them almost weekly, as US warplanes bomb wedding parties, or homes “suspected” of housing terrorists that turn out to house nothing but civilians. But these My Lais are all conveniently labeled accidents. They get filed away and forgotten as the inevitable “collateral damage” of war. There was, however, a massacre recently that was not a mistake–a massacre which, while it only involved fewer than a dozen innocent people, bears the same stench as My Lai. It was the execution-style slaying of eight handcuffed students, aged 11-18, and a 12-year-old neighboring shepherd boy who had been visiting the others, in Kunar Province, on Dec. 26.

Sadly, no principled soldier with a conscience like pilot Hugh Thompson tried to save these children. No observer had the guts of a Michael Brernhardt to report what he had seen. No Ron Ridenhour among the other serving US troops in Afghanistan has investigated this atrocity or reported it to Congress. And no American reporter has investigated this war crime the way Seymour Hersh investigated My Lai.

There is a Seymour Hersh for the Kunar massacre, but he’s a Brit. While American reporters like the anonymous journalistic drones who wrote CNN’s December 29 report on the incident took the Pentagon’s initial cover story–that the dead were part of a secret bomb-squad–at face value, Jerome Starkey, a dogged reporter in Afghanistan working for the Times of London and the Scotsman, talked to other sources–the dead boys’ headmaster, other townspeople, and Afghan government officials–and found out the real truth about a gruesome war crime–the execution of handcuffed children. And while a few news outlets in the US like the New York Times did mention that there were some claims that the dead were children, not bomb-makers, none, including CNN, which had bought and run the Pentagon’s lies unquestioningly, bothered to print the news update when, on Feb. 24, the US military admitted that in fact the dead were innocent students. Nor has any US corporate news organization mentioned that the dead had been handcuffed when they were shot.
Starkey reported the US government’s damning admission. Yet still the US media remain silent as the grave.

Under the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime to execute a captive. Yet in Kunar on December 26, US-led forces, or perhaps US soldiers or contract mercenaries, cold-bloodedly executed eight hand-cuffed prisoners. It is a war crime to kill children under the age of 15, yet in this incident a boy of 11 and a boy of 12 were handcuffed as captured combatants and executed. Two others of the dead were 12 and a third was 15……….”http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/50513

On my browser, the link I posted above is not working but redirects to this thread.  I don’t know why.  The URL is good.  If you manually type it into your browser, it will work.  These newfangled gadgets get me so mad sometimes . . . Go figure . . .

oowawa—oh, THANK YOU for this longer version. Wow!
When I was a little girl, I worshipped my Southern grandmothers, especially my maternal grandmother in Shreveport.  She talked like Scarlett O’Hara, (naturally, not put-on), kept “Tara’s Theme” sheet music from Gone With the Wind opened on her pump organ music stand, kept a pot of chicory coffee on her gas stove, listened to truckers call-in on all-night radio shows, and walked around her rented house in her satin “mules” and chiffon robe, while clipping coupons. (She and my grandfather had about a 3rd grade education, but were wiser and funnier than any two people on earth)

My grandmother  never had money, but was immeasurably rich in things that really matter. And she was NOT a bigot.  She was amazing!
Because of her, I always wanted to be an old Southern woman when I grew up, and I stated that fact often.  That song brought all of those memories back. Thank you.
p.s. And  I’ve never heard of this song before…Where have I been?

But in the human world, a woman’s best protector is a man, not another woman.

So far no one has yet to dispute the fact that white women have it easier than another group in society. So what is there to respond to?

R3A, I remember this post the first two times.  It is not one whit less moving the third time around.  It is, in fact, even more powerful because years have passed yet nothing has changed and there has been virtually no progress in between postings.

I wish I knew what the solution was…what we could do that would bring women, finally, to the equality that is their birthright.  I used to wonder what it was that drove a people to armed rebellion.  Now I know.  It’s exhaustion, frustration and the final hopeless conviction that without it nothing will ever truly change.

No, I’m not advocating picking up a weapon and shooting.  But I understand what drives a few women to do so.  Frankly, I’m amazed that more women don’t.  The deck is stacked so firmly against women that not only are they unequal today, they have no expectation that it will change tomorrow, next week or even next year. 

But instead of fighting, our solution seems to have been to knuckle down and work even harder.  Is there something in a female’s make up that makes her believe accepting the responsibility for the dreadful treatment she has been acccorded is somehow empowering?

Hillary Clinton resigned a U.S. Senate seat to go to work for the man whose campaign abused her from the beginning.  I think her surrender to Barry exposed Clinton’s pathological need to be a player, a desire so strong that she would lick the boot that kicked her.  That move makes me wonder if I could ever vote for her should she run again.

Over on New Hampster’s blog, Partizane, they’ve been celebrating Women’s History Month all week.  Participation hasn’t exactly been overwhelming.  After you’ve talked about the few great women who made it into the history books there isn’t much to do except lament the fact that after all these years, powerful women are not just a rarity, they are considered oddities, too. 

“feminist = racist”.  So sad.  So true.

Diana, I am not talking about today, where America is much more diverse than it was 50 years ago. Obviously if the populous is uniformly caucasian, the lowly jobs would also have to be staffed by caucasians. But go into a mall today, look around and tell me which race of women work at the Burger Kings, and are sweeping the floors, vs. which race of women work at the Abercrombie & Fitches and Victoria Secrets.

word, Diana.

What I found appalling was watching a roundtable discussion by a group of male pundits, on national TV,  as to whether it was okay to call a woman a b*tch if she was indeed one. If I hadn’t seen it myself I would not have believed it. I don’t remember Mrs. Obama objecting to that.

On oowawa’s linked thread, Ivory Bill Woodpecker wrote:  “If the economy and Dubya & Cheney’s stupid wars sink McCain this time, the obnoxiousness of Obama and his Oborg will sink them in 2010 and 2012.”

Hey, Bill…or Monster…may I borrow your crystal ball?

“This is the Negro’s hour…”  (therefore women should just sit back and wait their turn to be reconized as equal human beings). this attitude has prevailed since the beginning of what could be called the women’s rights movement in america.  the fact is that women’s rights have *always* taken a back seat to some other “more important” cause, and women themselves have enabled this state of affairs all along the way.

just take a look at all the fresh-faced little 20-something women who couldn’t wait to show how cool they were by supporting Obama, and at the same time they hurled the most vile, baseless, and often sexist criticisms at Hillary.  when will they ever learn? 

i am reminded of a speech Susan B. Anthony gave near the end of her life, after decades fighting for women’s rights, in which she quite bitterly took to task what were then called “remonstrants,” -women (mostly young) who felt that women’s rights had gone “far enough” and women now had all the rights they needed.  mind you, i think it wasn’t even 1900 yet at the time.  the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Rev. Amy — There’s alot of education, passion, and honesty, as well as  fascinating history to be found in the comments on this thread today.
Thank you, again, for making this discussion possible.
We appreciate you!

i know you’re just a troll, FF, so i don’t know why i even bother to respond, but FYI, in almost every “dirty (or dangerous) job” that is performed almost exclusively by men, the men in those fields are vehemently, actively opposed to the entrance of women there, and they will harrass just about any woman who does get in until she quits.

as far as crummy service sector jobs, i’m sure black women *are* over-represented there; fer christ’s sake, no one is saying that black women have it easy.  it’s not a constest, and the fact that black women bare a double burden in our society has nothing to do with the fact that women as a whole have been treated like dirt and with contempt form men in almost every corner of the globe from the beginning of time.   

Oh My F-ing God.  “woman’s protector is a man??????!!!!!!!!!”  tell that to the surviving family members of all the women killed by men every day in this world.   tell it to all the women who have have been raped and beaten and disrespected by men EVERY CAY in th this world.

and oh, by the way, FF, who do you imagine that men are protecting women from?  Oh yeah, from other men.   seems like it’s not really a winning argument for you. 

it is WOMEN who come to the aid of other women, if anyone does.

Pizza—great comments!

Excellent point abt Susan B. Anthony’s remarks, and the young women who were showing how “cool” they were, surely getting the apporval they so craved from the young men with whom they were keeping company.  How cool is it to demean and belittle other women, right?  Oh, yeah…

Great comment, Pizza Driver.

Thank you Diana and Annie for sharing your personal stories and snapshots of growing up in America during a very difficult period in our history.  Your stories are so powerful…What amazing people we have here!

FF is trying the old “divide and conquer” strategy.  Get the masses fighting amongst themselves for the scraps so they don’t pay attention to who is getting the good meals.

Awesome, oowawa – such amazing women shown there (I adore Dame Judy Dench – heck, all of the women in it – WOW!!!).

In response to the observation that jobs primarily done by women are lower paid, I’m curious to see what happens now that most graduates of veterinary and medical schools are women.  I’m watching to see if the general pay of those fields for all practitioners goes down in the years to come….  I wouldn’t be surprised…

I’m thinking of the days of the Soviet Union, during which time most MDs were women, and they were NOT well paid.  Of course, that was a socialist country, but there were male-dominated fields that paid better than doctor…

Absolutely right, Annie.  That is the approach we encourage our readers to use – not engaging the bots because they will, indeed, hijack threads.  We have been dealing with that quite a bit of late.

And while we do not censor here, when people get out of hand, as you mentioned, they will get banned.  Everyone gets chances here, but when they abuse the privilege by abusing the writers and regulars, they cross a line.

Oowawa, your point is well taken.  Sometimes, people just have differences of opinion.  That’s fine – let’s engage and discuss.  So, yes, there is a difference. 

Great advice, y’all.

Absolutely, Peggy Sue.  Monday is the 15th anniversary of that speech, and oh, what a speech it is.  It moves me to tears everytime I hear it.

And hearing it makes me so upset at these women who joined with men in belittling Hillary, dismissing her vast experience as nothing more than being First Lady.  They somehow missed that she was in the Top 100 Lawyers in the country TWICE, that the above mentioned speech was placed in the Top 100 Speeches in the 20th Century, or all of the work she had/has done on behalf of women and children. 

Again, it’s interalized sexism, no MISOGYNY, these women have from growing up in a society that so devalues women they cannot, will not, even support one another fully.  That is just tragc.

Great comment, creeper – thank you for your thoughtful response.  And thank you for reading this same post THREE times – wow!

You know, I wonder abt that, too, creeper, women knuckling down even more when we are knocked down.  I think part of it is an ancient fear that she will be without protection if she stands up for herself.  Know what I mean?  Even in the 21st century, I think women worry that they will be hurt, raped, brutalized, and/or killed, if they do stand up for themselves.  The 1 out of 3/4 women who are battered every day keep the message loud and clear – toe the line, or else…

And I hear you abt Hillary.  It is hard for those of us who have so much respect for her see her turn around and work for this man who treated her so poorly – because she was a WOMAN, not just his opponent (same for Palin).  Self preservation perhaps?  Caring more abt the country than her ego?  Don’t know, but I get your point.

It is sad, sad, sad, that we are still where we are.  It is infuriating, and demoralizing.  Add to that being a lesbian – a woman-identified woman in a misogynistic culture – two strikes right there. 

I don’t know what the answer is – but until women stop undermining each other, it will not change.

GREAT discussion, friends!

I think her surrender to Barry exposed Clinton’s pathological need to be a player, a desire so strong that she would lick the boot that kicked her.

creeper – I had a lot of mixed feelings when Hillary decided to work for him.  Since we can’t be flies on the wall, I guess we’re left to our own individual interpretations of her motivations. 

Personally, I don’t see Hillary as wanting to be a “player” – I think her need is to help the country.  I also don’t see her as a boot licker – I think what she did took enormous strength – of character, of resolve. 

Based on what I’ve learned of her history (hmmmm… herstory), I believe she truly sees her life work as being that of a public servant.  I think she saw taking the SOS job as a way to continue giving.  Furthermore, her history/herstory shows her to have always been a leader.  I think she had to take a backseat to Bill’s goals, but did the most she could with it.  For one thing, she was the first First Lady to really work in office.

I just don’t see Hillary taking the SOS job as being anything like an abused woman staying with her abuser (which is actually often more complicated than simple lack of self-worth).  I see it more as a raped woman having the strength and resolve to face her rapist in court through months of the trial, while still going to work everyday to take care of her family.

My pleasure, Cindy! 

And candymarl, that is just shocking abt that roundtable – wow.  Do they have no women in their lives who would stand up to them?  Apparently not – or else they are just as dismissive of the women they “love” as they are of whoever these “bit*hes” are they want to call out.

Wow…That is so disturbing…

Unbelievable! >:o

Thanks!  I am blessed with a great family and a great ethnic background, IMHO.  I have always read the history of women with great interest. 

You have way more to be proud of than most “successful” men.  Good for you!  I think of my maternal grandmother, who died at 99.  She had hardly anything, except the love of a large family of children and grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and even great-great grandchildren.  
She is my American Idol.  I’m hoping your kids know how lucky they were to have you and your parents.

FF,

And along with what Pizza Driver said, I would add that those AA women would do much better for themselves to show more loyalty to their sisters of all color than to the AA men that do not honor them as they should and do not play an equal part in raising their circumstances.  Feminism should be higher on their list of movements than eliminating racism.

oowawa,

Yes, thanks for this.  My two sons, my nieces three little boys, all my nephews and uncles, and my Dad, admired no one more than they admired my maternal grandmother, who died at 99, singing just before she did that old song that goes something like “show me the way home.”  Never once did any of us argue about going to visit her.  It was such a privilege.

She was ornery and took no back talk from any of us.  But boy did she make every one feel special.  

I always tell my boys, I am going to grow up some day and be like her.

Define “easier.”

I’ve had far more in the way of concern for my health and safety from my sisters, both in my family and in the the sense of the women in my life than I ever had from men.  I can’t say that I’ve ever felt “protected” by men.  Some, such as my male friends, my male relatives have shown me “love.”  But I’ve never felt “protected” except as a little girl, and I felt as much protection from my mother and grandmothers as from my father and grandfathers. 

I’m not responding to you now.  You may be as oowawa says, just one of those bloggers who takes an unpopular point of view on a thread just to be annoying.  It makes you feel more important than you really are. 

I think your guess is pretty on target.

After thinking that over, maybe we should push for the Supreme Court to consider us as corporations. Then we could be considered persons.

But RRRA, at least lesbians can have a sexism/misogyny-free home! 

Oowawa, I think I know you. Everything breaks my heart too. Pity is there is no cure for it.

No, No, No, You gotta keep on truckin’ down life’s hwy.

When the insurance companies and the government 
control the practice of medicine, more men will either quit or refuse to go into the profession.

Divide and conquer, divide and conquer….  not.  Not HERE.

Oh, excuse me, FF, your sexist/racist post made me spill my champagne flute, and now my personal asian pedicurist has to go change into one of the other uniforms I bought her to wear.  And I need to call my personal black cook to bring me a fresh drink.  I tried to get a Norwegian nanny to keep Little Miss Privilege and Little Mr. Privilege in line but white people only like CEO jobs, and I couldn’t get a Mexican nanny because most of them are caucasian hispanics, so I’m searching for a black hispanic.  Celia Cruz was such a beautiful singer, she would have been great, but alas, she has passed on.  My personal Filipina nurse says I need to let all this stress go, so I don’t hurt my health  (sigh)  Life is so hard……

No one goes to a blog where they know they have nothing in common with the regulars unless it is to disrupt.  The other night we had three or four of them who did ruin our discussions.
I do not respond to bots, and I hate to be forced off because of the mean back and forth they cause.

I doubt that you had many/any D’s in your life.

FF, now you are sounding like a freeper.

Are you of mixed race?  Half bot/half freeper?

For FF, the one who cannot see:

Female Gendercide
By; Barbara
It is estimated than 100 million women are missing from the globe today. Every year at least 2 million women and girls worldwide disappear because of gender discrimination and gendercide.
100,000 girls are routinely kidnapped and sold into brothels.

In China the “dying womb” where Girls have committed the sin of being born female are left to die in hospitals. It is also estimated that 39,000 baby girls die a year in China because they do not receive the same medical care that boys do.

In India, girls are not vaccinated as boys are. All told in India girls from 1-5 years of age are 50 percent more like to die than boys the same age.  The best estimate is that a little girl in India dies from discrimination every 4 minutes.  In India, “bride burning” to punish a girl for having a inadequate dowry or to eliminate her so a man can remarry -takes place approximately once every two hours.

In Islamabad and Rawalpindi Pakistan 5,000 woman and girls have been doused with kerosene and set a fire, burned alive.  Women are stoned, beheaded, raped, tortured and genital mutilated by the millions and yet this is silenced.

More girls have been killed in the past fifty years (precisely because they were girls) than men were killed in all the wars of the twenty century. More girls are killed in this routine “gendercide” in any one decade than people slaughtered in all the genocides of the twentieth century.

http://freemenow.wordpress.com/2010/02/24/join-me-at-half-the-sky-live/

My two cents and correct me if I am wrong ladies…

Women bring a different perspective and set of brain skills. I am a middle age mal, and I like having women in the workplace.

The problem I have seen is that women very rarely get promoted up the ladder, unless they exhibit the worst set of management skills. The women that I have been subordinate to (1) are meaner than their worst male counterparts.

And, that seems to be a constant. Women must exhibit the worst agressive traits to get ahead in a male domiated workplace. 

I would offer exhibit A, Navy Captain Holly Graf, being relieved of command for being abusive.

It seems that if women are not predominantly abusive, they are not going to be viewed by men as having leadership skills. It wasn’t that long ago that being abusive was thought to be a good leadership skill in men, and widely accepted.

You find men of all races, and women of all races, except white women, working the least desirable jobs in society.

Gosh….  I wonder how anything gets done in the large middle of our country, which is still largely white (sans biggist cities)…..?  Yeegads, NO ONE to do the WORK!

FF, you are either a baiter, or you seriously need to get some therapy about your racism and sexism.

I had a labor law attorney tell me once that more dismissals and firings were perpetrated against women by women managers.  That was in the ’90′s.  I witnessed a female manager go after a female co-worker and threaten her with physical harm in 2002.  

You don’t know how many women I worked with said that they preferred a male boss.  Why?  To avoid the situations mentioned above.

Now while this doesn’t by any stretch hold true 100% of the time, it does give one pause.

Naomi Campbell, as another example of aggressive women or the all time favorite, Leona Helmsley for exhibit B and C.

And I adored my grandmother who was brought up in the Edwardian era with beautiful clothes and good manners.  She never had an extra dime, but she was far richer than any woman I know today.  She was happy and resourceful, never held a job outside the home after she married, and wore red tennis shoes.  She never learned to drive and didn’t worry about it.  She saw the good in most everyone and would rarely call someone a “Bugger”, but you knew she meant it.  I’ve tried to  modelmyself after her in many ways.

My mother received a scholarship to college in an era when women didn’t further their educations.  She used her degree when she needed to, stayed home to raise a family and helped run a ranch. She had a good life and told me something that has stuck with me.

“Women can do anything they want to if they really want to do it, but you have to be true to yourself.”

It was good advice and I set me on a path where I didn’t much need anyone’s approval – male or female.

One more item before I hit the rack…

I witnessed a male VP tell a subordinate female that she would never get anywhere in the company because it was dominated by middle age males, like him, that would never promote a woman.

The lady was way smarter than that dumbass. She was a PE and this clown did not even finish his architectural degree. They were making her do what amounted to secretarial work.

We all know that goes on in the business world, but you don’t expect it to be so blatant. How do you react to such moronic stupidity? The VP was telling this woman she would be kept in a lowly position and there was nothing she could do about it. He was daring her to try.

I told the lady I would be a witness if she ever needed one. I did not stay with that company much longer.

I am sure a lot of women can relate to that story.

heh heh.  lorac, you are so right.  i live in south dakota, and this white woman does dishes and mops floors every night at the pizza place where i work.  i’m not complaining though; i like my job pretty well, except the boss has gotten a little nazi lately. 

Re FF’s inane comment, most of the dirty, dangerous male dominated jobs also pay very well and provide benefits, as opposed to the crummy jobs that women do. and as i mentioned, the men in those fields DO NOT WANT women there.  the reality is that they have a pretty sweet gig compared to the jobs a lot of other people have, and they don’t want women getting in on it and taking “their” jobs and diminishing the “real man” cred they get from the job.

“And so, as much as I admire and respect Senator Clinton (now Secretary Clinton)…”

I’m sorry, I’ve lost respect to Secretary Clinton, since she’s a strong and intelligent woman, I expected her to stay true to her convictions, but she lost me at accepting a high position in the Douchebag’s administration.  She is not suffering from a battered woman syndrome, she suffers from a political-whoring disorder. By standing with him in the end, she indirectly justifies his means.
I don’t agree with her on many issues, but if there’s a God, may Palin be the next POTUS.
 

I wish I could have known her – she sounds like an amazing woman.  She lives on in you, Diana!!

First, oowawa, you are so damn funny!!  Thanks for that!

Second, I think you are right that the constant attemtps to keep women down are out of fear.  As our cultures shifted from maternal to paternal, a large part of it was the fear that women are the ones who bring forth life, and men felt less than.  Since they were bigger, they turned it around that THEY were the creators.  This is a very, very, very brief version of years of scholarship, but the bottom line is, as some feminist theologians have stated, the paternalistic religions took the tree of life, and turned it into the tree of death. 

Or it could be the reason given in this Kathy and Mo skit:

In theory, that’s true, lorac, but lesbians grow up in this society, too.  We also strugle with internalized sexism (and homophobia), just like heterosexual women do.  Know what I mean?

Buzz– I loved reading about your grandmother.
……..and your mother….what a wise woman!

WOW – that is mighty blatant.  I hope that woman sued that company, but even that takes SO much to do, many women just don’t bother (because it is so hard to win).  Holy smokes.

There have been studies done on the different management styles of women v. men.  I tguess some women learned is that they have to be mean to be seen as effective bosses.  And that is because women are typically more collaborative than men are, who TELL people what to do.  Women, meanwhile, say things like, “If you wouldn’t mind, when you have time, could you possibly do x, y, z.”  ANd then are appreciative of the efforts.  But that is seen as WEAK, and as being less powerful.

We all have heard abt how women have been treated when they AREN’T collaborative like that – they get all kinds of labels, none of them good, whereas the men who act like that – telling people what to do, are seen as effective leaders.  It’s a double standard that continues…

Jenny while I see your point I have to relate my own experience as a veteran (who happens to be female ).  When Hillary was First Lady I contacted the WH for help. Initially I contacted the president’s office. His office actually wrote me back and suggested I contact Hillary.

I contacted Hillary’s office while thinking “yeah, right like I’ll ever hear from anybody”.  Although the First Lady’s office sent me a letter with a point of contact I was still skeptical.

A few days later I was called into the office at the VA hospital where I was an inpatient. They were in an uproar. It seems they’d received a call from the WH on my behalf from Hillary’s office. I was stunned.

Maybe, just maybe, Hillary took the job because she put aside her ego, and was willing to take the criticism she knew she’d receive from her supporters,  to try to help people.

Rev. Amy…Wow! That is fabulous! I’ve never seen that one. Used to watch Mo all the time…she’s one of my faves, and Kathy, too.
Thanks for posting it.

candymarl—–yet another reason to admire and respect Hillary Clinton. Thank you for posting that story….What an incredible experience, and one that I wish more people knew!

The more we are segregated “admin union” the less likely we are of strengthening our positions – the fact that we keep breaking into “black women” “Asian women” “Hispanic women” is one of the main reasons we can’t get any traction.

Hear, hear, Annie- we blew it – We need the ERA to be passed – we had a chance in the 60′s and let it slip by.

Really good analogy in your last paragraph, lorac.  Works for me.

I’ve been thinking about how some women are tough bosses, even to other women (and because of the double standard, as mentioned, they are judged more harshly than men with the same behavior).  Certainly they may have had to learn how to throw a few elbows, or they would have never have gotten as far as they did in the existing managerial climate.

But I’m wondering if they were never feminists to begin with.  They may even be that kind of woman who doesn’t like women much, see the human qualities that we allow women to exhibit as “weak”.  When I compare this type of woman to Hillary, there is a huge difference.  Certainly Hillary has risen higher than most of us ever will, and yet she is always working for “the underdog” – women, children, minorities. 

So I agree that women need to stop undermining each other, but I would add, that perhaps more women need to have a feminist consciousness for that to happen.  If the women choosing (or allowed) to “move up” have internalized the cultural superiority of “competition with no compassion” that successful men often subscribe to, there won’t be much change – women will keep undermining other women as well as any men who get in their way or report to them. 

We need to raise more women like Hillary, who are able to throw some elbows without losing their feminist consciousness.  But if they don’t start with that feminist consciousness (and personally, I hold the 3rd wave largely accountable for dropping the ball!), I don’t think there’s a lot of chance female bosses will suddenly “change”…..

I was thinking more of the relationship in the home – woman to woman.  I guess if we’re talking about a lesbian couple who are playing masculine/feminine roles like straight people have traditionally played, then I can see sexism existing inside the home – but I think this was more common in days past.  If they’re just “regular” lesbians, then I think they can have a home free of sexist attitudes.

I think you’re making the valid point that if two lesbians have internalized the societal attitude that you’re inferior if you’re a woman, or that there is something wrong with you if you’re gay, then those beliefs have permeated the home.  But I was thinking of the opportunity existing for equality between the two partners 

http://www.newser.com/story/82604/female-baseball-researcher-finally-gets-her-due.html

See what happens when women stand together and speak out.

WOMEN WITH INTELLIGENCE AND EXPERIENCE,MEN WHO SUPPORT THEM AND COUNTRY BEFORE PARTY ALWAYS

PUMAS,BUBBAS,EQUALISTS AND THOSE PEOPLE RULE

Even before the burning, the ‘verdict’ was in:  you can’t tell people they are good enough to go to Vietnam to fight and die for their country but not to work where they want, or live where they want, if and when they come home.  (And recall, prohibition against discrimination on account of “sex” was an afterthought, introduced into the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by southern whites in an unsuccessful attempt to thwart the bill’s passage.)

I lost the tape along the way.  Thanks!  It never loses it’s laughs.

FF is a bot as is the crazy bird.

Hello Amy,

My spouse published a column today that segues nicely from your tribute to International Women’s Day (on your blog):

Celebrating women as innovators and pioneers
http://bit.ly/bTxnrz

Thanks!